Small Sample Size Alert: Shaun Hill vs. Jay Cutler
by Fooch on Apr 2, 2009 2:38 PM PDT
in News
107 comments
3:17 Update: NFL.com is reporting a better deal for the Broncos: They give up Cutler and their 5th round pick. They get Orton, the 2009/2010 firsts and 2009 3rd. Not too shabby. Definitely glad the 49ers didn't give up that much.
2:38 Update: The Broncos get Kyle Orton and a 2009 and 2010 first round pick. With Cutler they give up a 2009 3rd round pick.
FOOCH'S NOTE 2:30PM: Well, this post was made useless pretty quickly. I found a link confirming montereyjosh's comment that the Bears acquired Cutler. It solves the Bears QB issues, although they still need some help at wide receiver (Hester isn't the be all-end all). Barring some dramatic change this will thankfully end the Cutler drama.
_________________________________________
Over in the Golden Nuggets, Bob on the Coast posted a comment from a Tim Kawakami's blog, posted by a guy named Scott. It included several stats that I've placed in a table below. The TD/Int includes TDs per interception. Also, one of the stats listed was incorrect so I've adjusted it.
| Stat | Hill | Cutler |
| Comp % | 62.8% | 62.3% |
| TD/Int | 13/8 (1.625) | 25/18 (1.38) |
| 1st down/attempt | 2.9 | 2.8 |
| % comp over 20 yds | 14.9% | 14.3% |
| Sacks | 23 in 8 g | 11 |
| Yards/attempt | 7.1 | 7.3 |
| Rating | 87.5 | 86 |
| Winning % as starter | .625 |
I chcked the rest of the stats and they appear correct. So I was curious what people think when seeing these numbers. A person can make statistics appear any way they want so that has to be kept in mind. Additionally, one has to consider the talent around the two players being considered. There is also the Mike Martz issue, which affects sacks, and probably passes over 20 yards. And, of course, there's the ever popular "small sample size" dilemma.
So, given all that, any thoughts on this? One person indicated the Broncos had less talent around Cutler, but my eyeball test tells me I'm not sure I buy that argument. At the same time I need to do a little more research before giving a solid answer.
I know we've got the Jay Cutler thread, but I thought this was worth pulling out separately. The 49ers have been quiet in the Jay Cutler sweepstakes so this may all be moot. However, I want to see what folks have to say about the stats that are presented here.
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I don't get it
Everyone is so in love with Cutler. Well, never mind. Just looked at the ticker on ESPN and he’s going to the Bears. Good. No more Cutler posts.
Never forget Bill Walsh.
by montereyjosh on Apr 2, 2009 2:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The Shaun Hill era has just begun!
Give Hill the season, he deserves it given his performance!
by Sphagnum on Apr 2, 2009 2:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hold up
I have a strange feeling that Alex Smith is going to win it. I hope he does.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on Apr 2, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let the Swan Hill Era Begin!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Apr 2, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thankfully, Cutler to the Bears
This team doesn’t need a franchise QB. These aren’t the 80’s Niners and the focus is going to be on a smashmouth running game, ball control, and field position.
Shaun Hill will be just fine for that kind of offense as long as he doesn’t start overthinking and forcing passes. I even think Alex Smith “could” be fine for this offense.
Rays in '08.... Desmond Jennings - the breakout continues.....
by youALREADYknow on Apr 2, 2009 2:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The team is better off without the distraction
Cutler has dug himself a pretty deep hole. I don’t want to see all of the neg. attention around the team. Coach Sing brings enough attention already.
Never forget Bill Walsh.
by montereyjosh on Apr 2, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well site decorum!
just as you made that edit I made a fanshot. redundancy FTW!
Still defending Rich Aurilia, and the Niners' classic unis
by wjackalope on Apr 2, 2009 2:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Jay Cutler is over rated
But i thought that before I read this.
myspace music
by jeffro on Apr 2, 2009 2:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Overrated, maybe
But still damn good, and a significant improvement long-term over what we have on the roster.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Apr 2, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so is Kyle Orton now the Broncos' starter?
Still defending Rich Aurilia, and the Niners' classic unis
by wjackalope on Apr 2, 2009 2:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It looks...
… to be so. That is, unless they use one of their first round picks on Sanchez/Stafford, which is highly unlikely.
by sfgfan on Apr 2, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Alex Smith and the #10 pick for Kyle Orton!
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Apr 2, 2009 2:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
GIT IT DONE NINERS BRASS!!1!!!11!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley [insert witty comment]
Thanks to roger
by bondslegend on Apr 2, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Apr 2, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not bad
not bad at all
Still defending Rich Aurilia, and the Niners' classic unis
by wjackalope on Apr 2, 2009 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jay cutler is better than Shaun Hill
this is not up for debate. That said, I love Shaun Hill just fine. But Jay Cutler is better. And it’s really not close.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley [insert witty comment]
Thanks to roger
by bondslegend on Apr 2, 2009 2:48 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
THANK YOU
I rarely bust out the ALL CAPS, but for crying out loud… how is this not the most doesn’t-even-need-to-be-said thing that there is? Jay Cutler is far better than Shaun Hill. He’s better and he’s younger.
It’s absolutely ridiculous how many people are down on Jay Cutler. And the only reason seems to be that he’s a baby. WAAAAH, he’s a baby. Yeah? I’d sure be happy winning, though.
We would have been lucky to get him for anything close to what the Bears gave up. A first round pick and a marginal starter for a franchise quarterback? That’s a great trade for Chicago. Now they can actually run the offense that they were trying so hard to run with Grossman.
I’ll say it again. THANK YOU! And I’ll say this again, too: the haters can suck it.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Apr 2, 2009 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Really
Cutler had a better defense and was sack only 11 times. The only differences was yards thrown, otherwise it was so close than there wasn’t a clear winner. I wouldn’t want someone who quit on his teammates.
by LASVEGASNINER on Apr 2, 2009 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this is a case where stats kind of fail us. Cutler’s only real negative is that he throws more interceptions than he should. Other than that, he’s got a great, accurate arm. He’s extremely intelligent. He’s mobile. He’s reactive. And most importantly in terms of the long-term discussion, he’s 25.
At 29, Shaun Hill has thrown for almost 7000 fewer yards than Cutler. Hill’s arm is vastly inferior. He’s not nearly as accurate. He’s also very reactive and appears to be pretty intelligent. But, unfortunately, he’s not particularly likely to improve very much. He’s at a time in a player’s life that is typically the developmental peak.
The stats may be similar, but Cutler did it younger and he did it better. He has an extremely good chance to continue to improve, whereas is Shaun Hill does anything, he’s probably staying the same or getting worse.
Now, it is true that Cutler has had better receivers and a better line, but to me this point is a little overstated. Playing with a good team does not make a player less good. We’ve all seen what Cutler can do. We’ve all seen where he can put a football and how he can open up a playbook. Mike Shannahan said that Cutler was the first quarteback he had since John Elway who could actually run his offense without limiting the playbook. Now, I don’t take coach statements for very much because, really, what is a coach supposed to say, but I did see the evidence for Shannahan’s words with my own eyes. The Broncos offense did things with Cutler that it hadn’t done since Elway.
He changed that entire team. Except the defense, of course. I think it’s worth something that the Broncos scored more than 30 points in five games last season with Cutler. The 49ers only even did it once with Shaun Hill. Against the Rams. That’s actually pretty cherry-picked, so I won’t stand by it very hard. But it’s interesting to look at.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Apr 2, 2009 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should also point out that Hill’s completion percentage is slightly inflated with relation to Cutler’s because he runs a much higher percentage offense. For the same reason, it’s fair to say that his turnovers are suppressed. If Hill was running the plays Cutler ran with the Broncos last season, he would have been seriously exposed.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Apr 2, 2009 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Other than throwing
more passes( est. 150 more) from "07’. In 3 years, his numbers are no different at all. So it possible that he may have reach his max. potential.That will remain to be seen. McDaniels is a Offensive Minded Coach who may have been able to turn him into another John Elway. We’ll never know now. And if Hill had a better O- line and Rec., Who knows what he’s capable of.
by LASVEGASNINER on Apr 2, 2009 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mostly I believe that Shaun Hill couldn’t make half the throws that Cutler can make and that Cutler is a better long-term option because of his age and his talent.
I’m not trying to be down on Hill, mind you. I just think that Cutler is insanely talented in ways that Hill will never be. Hill might do more with less, but his ceiling is basically what Cutler has been doing for three years by doing less with more.
Of two guys who are comparable (though I clearly don’t believe they are by a long shot, I’ll concede the point for the sake of argument), I’ll take the one who has more room to grow any day of the week.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Apr 2, 2009 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ints
to go along with performance, the only reason why Cutler had so many picks is because they were constantly playing from behind because the D sucked horribly. He had alot of pressure on him and thats what happens when you have a lowsy D.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on Apr 2, 2009 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no doubt
that he has the phsyical tools to be a better QB than Hill, but his Mental actions diciates that he may not be able to handle adverse situations, like Hill had to endure during the last 2 Seasons. The Truth is,Cutler Screw Up. He was in a perfect position to be Loved for the next 10 years in Denver. The Second Coming……….
by LASVEGASNINER on Apr 2, 2009 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He had only 11 picks Last Year!
And the 12th Rated Defense in the NFL!
by LASVEGASNINER on Apr 2, 2009 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure why we’re treating his actions to get out of Denver as some sort of chronic problem. To the best of my knowledge, he’s been nothing but a model player outside of this one thing. If I was a speculating man, I’d say that he was just looking for any excuse to get out of Denver, and found a convenient one with the Cassel stuff. But I’m not a speculating man, so I won’t say that.
But, I mean, this isn’t exactly a pattern, is it?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Apr 2, 2009 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then why did he react so badly and
he say today,he really didn’t want to be Traded???
by LASVEGASNINER on Apr 2, 2009 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where did he say that?
Listen, players have spoken to the media and held out because they wanted to get traded before. It’s not a rare thing. The rare part about this is that the Broncos caved to him so quickly. I think the Cutler is a baby and reacted bad thing has been overblown from the beginning.
He wanted a trade. He made it public. He did the April equivilent of holding out. He got a trade. It happens. The only real difference this time is that we didn’t see it brewing before it boiled over. That doesn’t mean that it wasn’t brewing, though.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Apr 2, 2009 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but he play his cards wrong
You talk, you discuss and you renegoitate! You just don’t answer the the Phone. At some point,you move on. like my past GF’s! Then all of the sudden they call back and what’s to talk! To Late, I moved on! the Boss understood that. He had enough!!! He had to make a call for the TEAM!!!
by LASVEGASNINER on Apr 2, 2009 7:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was not just Cutler
The Broncos screwed up just as much too. Cutler is proven. It was stupid to even think about trading him. He’s a 10 year QB for whatever team he is on. Both sides were at fault.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on Apr 2, 2009 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come on now
If youre a pro bowl QB and one of the young talents of the league, you’d be pissed too if all the sudden your new coach wants to look at trading you. i’d say it’s BS.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on Apr 2, 2009 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Business,
And who knows who started all this junk? CEO,GM,Whatever, someone thought that Cassel was better. Whatever the result, Cutler push it to this point. I negotiate deals nearly every day. There comes a point,you say OK, you/re gone and there’s no going back!!!
by LASVEGASNINER on Apr 2, 2009 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At this point
it doesn’t matter but Denver took a huge step back by thinking about trading him in the first place. Now they have to do some rebuilding on both sides. We both know Orton is not the answer to Denvers problems.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on Apr 2, 2009 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And since when did
the players start telling what the Owners what to DO? Cutler got his WISH ! Can he HANDLE it????
by LASVEGASNINER on Apr 2, 2009 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
make sense??
I don’t understand how you can say Cutler’s only real negative is that he throws more interceptions than he should and then right after that you say other than that, he has a very accurate arm. That’s one of the main reason Shaun Hill finished the last 8 games as our starting quarterback, because J.T O-sucksalot’s only real negative was that he threw more interceptions than he should.
I’m happy with the 49ers decision not to pursue Cutler. We would’ve gained a great quarterback but we would’ve lost our 1st round for sure and more and we are in desperate need of a more powerful O-line.
This off season the 49ers have been very conservative but they have been picking away at certain positions and I’m really excited about the Marvel Smith pick up.
Well at least I’ll get to see the 49ers blow the Broncos out of the water during preseason lol
by StevenC on Apr 3, 2009 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brett Favre threw a lot of interceptions. More than anyone in league history. Would you call him particularly inaccurate?
There is no contradiction there. Throwing an interception doesn’t always happen when you throw a ball inaccurately. Most of the time it happens when you have to force a play, when you’re under pressure, or when you miss a read. Those are correctable things.
Cutler can fit a ball into a space. He can hit a receiver in stride. And he can do both without trying very hard. When (if) he gets the other stuff straight, he’s going to be great.
But let’s not overstate the point. Even if he doesn’t improve, he’s still one of the top QBs in the NFL. Top five? Maybe not. Pro Bowl caliber? Absolutely. Any negatives in his current game are NOT deal-breakers.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Apr 3, 2009 12:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cutler is better hands down
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on Apr 2, 2009 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the Broncos now pick at 12 and 18
any chance they’ll want to move up and snag Sanchez? If so, to what spot? Maybe right in front of us?
Still defending Rich Aurilia, and the Niners' classic unis
by wjackalope on Apr 2, 2009 2:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Highly unlikely...
… they’ll trade up to take Sanchez. They need wayy to many athletes/players to send away potential starter picks for only one potential starter pick.
by sfgfan on Apr 2, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
but McDaniel’s did want Cassell, who went to USC…
Still defending Rich Aurilia, and the Niners' classic unis
by wjackalope on Apr 2, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But...
… McDaniels was actually picking up a draft pick in that scenario, if I’m not mistaken. I thought the supposed deal he was trying to work was Cutler for Cassel and a first rounder.
According to Barrows, it may be an even trade of the Broncos send the 49ers #12 (or is it 13?) and a third rounder for the #10 pick. In that kind of a scenario, I can see it happening. I don’t know how plausible that is, though, as it’s pretty easy to call the 49ers bluff and dare them to take Sanchez.
by sfgfan on Apr 3, 2009 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
new coach = new players
McDaniels is going to want his own players on the roster, so I’m sure he’ll be looking for as many picks as possible in this year’s draft. They might end up with the best draft now that they have so many top 100 picks.
Rays in '08.... Desmond Jennings - the breakout continues.....
by youALREADYknow on Apr 2, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes,
Look at New England, they got 6 picks in the 1st 100 selections.
by LASVEGASNINER on Apr 3, 2009 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In Hill We Trust
Now that Warner and Cutler whirlwind has ended and the 49ers not taking Stafford or Sanchez in the draft either, Shaun’s still the man in SF.
Alex Smith? Better get your shoulder ready to carry…the clipboard and pat Hill’s ass when he leads the team to touchdowns.
Mo'ped Money, Mo'ped Problems
by Scooter Ellis on Apr 2, 2009 3:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
don't count your chickens before they hatch
and the 49ers not taking Stafford or Sanchez in the draft either
Still defending Rich Aurilia, and the Niners' classic unis
by wjackalope on Apr 2, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am glad the Warner and Cutler parade is over.
The Niners may go ahead and pick Sanzhez at #10 if he is available but I think they won’t. Also there are a few more, higher rated QBs coming out in the 2010 draft. The Niners may hit the jackpot with one of them.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Apr 2, 2009 3:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
They may still take Sanchez...
… but if they do, I don’t think he’ll start this season.
by sfgfan on Apr 2, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
But I doubt he will be there at 10. It looks like his stock is rising faster than Viraga.
by LASVEGASNINER on Apr 2, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m glad the Cutler parade is over so I can stop listening to people talking about how much he sucks and how Shaun Hill is moar of winnrar! I’m not glad that it’s over because I was actually starting to think that there might be a shred of a chance that the 49ers would be in a position to possibly make a play for him. And others can tell you how slow I am to get excited about any kind of crazy speculation. Extremely slow. It would have been fun.
But at least I don’t have to hear about how much he sucks anymore. That’s a blessing.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Apr 2, 2009 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man o man
seeing “49ers land cutler” would probably have gotten me sexually excited. He would have been my adopted 49er. It really REALLY sucks that it didn’t happen, but at least it wasn’t Washington.
My hope is that Alex Smith FINALLY gets a fair shot to show off his talent and that the surgery(ies) hasn’t totally effed up his arm.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley [insert witty comment]
Thanks to roger
by bondslegend on Apr 3, 2009 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
I could deal with the people who fear his personality. I can see how he’s been seen as a prick and a baby, and that’s a valid concern.
To argue that he was no better (or not significantly better) than Shaun Hill was ridiculous, though.
by sfgfan on Apr 3, 2009 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cutler vs. Hill …
Jay Cutler is definitely a better / more valuable QB than Shaun Hill. That said, the very fact that we have Shaun Hill made us a lot less desperate for a QB than a good 5 other NFL teams.
Why I like Cutler going to da Bears …
1 – it’s not Seattle
2 – it’s not Minnesota
3 – it’s not one of the 9 teams ahead of us in draft picks
4 – the cost was way too high – Chicago gave up way more than we’d have been able to give up (and it just wouldn’t have been worth it since we have Hill)
5 – Detroit better pick Matt Stafford
Why I don’t like Cutler going to da Bears …
1 – we still have Alex Smith
2 – Cutler’s fantasy football value just plummeted (ditto for Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal)
"Those boos really motivate me to make something happen." - Bonds
by Persiflage on Apr 2, 2009 3:32 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
does that mean Orton's fantasy value goes way up
/shudder
Still defending Rich Aurilia, and the Niners' classic unis
by wjackalope on Apr 2, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nooope
not a single bronco will be on either of my fantasy teams. Unless I can get Marshall in the 13th or something. Dude must be pissed.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley [insert witty comment]
Thanks to roger
by bondslegend on Apr 2, 2009 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It can’t hurt it, I would think.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Apr 2, 2009 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Roayl isn't a bad pick either
I had him and he got me some good points on the way to winning the championship this year.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on Apr 2, 2009 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Without cutler
Royal isn’t worth anything above a 6th or 7th rounder. With Jay he’s probably a 3rd or 4th.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley [insert witty comment]
Thanks to roger
by bondslegend on Apr 3, 2009 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a very good comment. Along with bondslegend’s comment above, I’m reccing it. And I don’t rec often.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Apr 2, 2009 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
THEY COULD STILL TRADE WITH THE BEARS!!!!!!!11111111!!!1
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley [insert witty comment]
Thanks to roger
by bondslegend on Apr 2, 2009 4:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
and the Giants should trade for Manny
Still defending Rich Aurilia, and the Niners' classic unis
by wjackalope on Apr 2, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
GIANTS BRASS!!!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley [insert witty comment]
Thanks to roger
by bondslegend on Apr 2, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, now....
we wait for the “I told you so moments,” of bondslegend.
"The voice of the intellect is a soft one, but it does not rest until it has gained a hearing"
by Jeff_Fuller_49 on Apr 2, 2009 4:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Bears are SB champs
but seriously, they are now division favorites. If the get themselves a WR who can get out of his own way then they’ll be great with him and Forte and their defense.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley [insert witty comment]
Thanks to roger
by bondslegend on Apr 2, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your sheer level of sanity is almost astounding.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Apr 2, 2009 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OMG
NINERZ BRASS TRAD FOAR BRADY GIT IT DONE I THINK YOU GIVE HILL AND SMITH AND MAYBE A 7TH WHY HAVENT YOU DUN IT SING
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley [insert witty comment]
Thanks to roger
by bondslegend on Apr 3, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
UH?
The Pats are going to give up Brady? SURE!!!! And it’s FOR,not foar! done vs. dun
by LASVEGASNINER on Apr 3, 2009 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Woosh
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Apr 3, 2009 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That picture...
… is still awesome even though I’ve probably seen it hundreds of times between here and McCovey Chronicles.
by sfgfan on Apr 3, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd have the Bears to win the division
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on Apr 2, 2009 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sanchez NO Thank you!
I’ll pass on that thanks though maybe another day.
by niners83 on Apr 2, 2009 4:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
King of a HILL!!!
We already have a great QB “stat wise” and his teammates also like him. He was thrown in the games in the mid season and he still shined. A good camp, better chemistry with his receivers and we are set @QB. Go Niners.
by Niner Power on Apr 2, 2009 4:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
SWAN HILL!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Apr 2, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's more info
on Hills performance charts. For instant, 11 TDS were toss in the red zone. There is a complete breakdown on Hill. Go to NFLcom,Player,position (QB), Shawn Hill, then Situational Stats. There is all the infomation you will need to know about Hill. And it all looks very good except the 3rd Qtr. You got to check it out!!! It’s good stuff!!!
by LASVEGASNINER on Apr 2, 2009 5:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If the Hills,
Jason and Shawn, Hook up this year, Maybe we can coin them,“The Twin Peaks” or whatever!
by LASVEGASNINER on Apr 2, 2009 6:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
its not shawn
its shaun. Get our franchise qb’s name right!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley [insert witty comment]
Thanks to roger
by bondslegend on Apr 3, 2009 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cutler's better but Hill is underrated.
Cutler IS better. Shaun Hill IS underrated.
by Hella Niners on Apr 2, 2009 7:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
you are correct
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley [insert witty comment]
Thanks to roger
by bondslegend on Apr 3, 2009 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How much better?
Even though statistically they appear pretty equal with the exception that Cutler tends to throw more interceptions I actually think he’s a better quarterback physically than Hill can ever be. Favre threw a lot of interceptions at the beginning of his career and periodically throughout. But when he was on he was on. And he was great to watch. Cutler could potentially be like a reincarnation of Favre.
What I’ve been saying is that for the cost I don’t think that Cutler is that much of an improvement this year for the current Niners team. Considering the kind of offense we are presuming that Singletary wants, ball control, I suspect that Cutler and his gambling style would be a detriment. And the cost of giving up those draft choices would make him more of a detriment. I think that the Niners want to see more of Hill and Smith. Me too. Hill could turn out to be a lunchbox working class kind of quarterback, you know, just getting the job done. And while Smith has had the worst handling of any quarterback I can remember, he may actually end up being a good quarterback. Or not. The other thing is that next year’s quarterback crop should be better than this year’s. The Niners may pick up a guy late and see if he’s worth holding onto. If he’s a stiff then the Niners can draft their future quarterback next year.
The Cutler comparisons are irrelevant now, but it will be interesting to see how the Bears do this year, and next year and the year after. They have paid a pretty high price for him. Let’s see if the Bears have enough parts to win with him.
by Bob On The Coast on Apr 2, 2009 7:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually, it's kind of a steal for the Bears
They spend the 18th pick this year for a young, proven, Pro-Bowl type QB. Two teams are going to spend higher picks this year and hope that Stafford and Sanchez pan out. They lose Kyle Orton, who became irrelevant with Cutler now there.
They lose next years #1 pick. Jerry Angelo is pretty much 50/50 regarding quality players in the first round.
They gave up the 18th pick this year for a Pro-Bowl QB.
A QB (Orton) they no longer need.
A number #1 next year that they probably only had a 50/50 chance of hitting on.
A # 3 this year but get back a #5 pick this year from Denver.
If Cutler plays the next 10 years in Chicago like he played the last three in Denver, it’s a steal for the Bears
by GeoMak on Apr 2, 2009 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s a great deal for the Bears.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Apr 2, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way (how they scored)
I was going to post this comment directed towards you: I read all of your comments here and I thought you made almost perfect sense in all of them
by GeoMak on Apr 2, 2009 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Apr 2, 2009 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean it
You wrote long posts but once I started reading I read them all. Very well thought out and very well written.
by GeoMak on Apr 2, 2009 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You should see him at McC
dude sounds like he’s high 99% of the time. Don’t go puffing his ego up
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley [insert witty comment]
Thanks to roger
by bondslegend on Apr 3, 2009 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ARRGGHHH
every time I think about it I get more upset. Why the hell you would ANY NFL team not make this offer? Jesus, what were the bears going to get with those picks? NOT JAY CUTLER, that’s for sure.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley [insert witty comment]
Thanks to roger
by bondslegend on Apr 3, 2009 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's my point.
Any team would trade this years #18 for a Pro-Bowl QB. Even the Colts or the Pats would trade this years #18 for a 25 yeard old Pro-Bowl QB.
Next years #1? Not that big of a deal. It almost assuredly won’t be a top 10 pick. Besides, half of all #1’s are either busts or underachievers.
They lose a third this year but they have an extra third from a compensatory pick. And they get Denver’s 5th round pick.
From what I gather the Broncos had similar offers from other teams; they really like Orton though. That’s what swung the deal for the Bears.
Actually, considering how disgrunteled Cutler was, it’s a good deal for both teams.
by GeoMak on Apr 3, 2009 1:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh..
… how do you know offers weren’t made? Also, how do you know the Bears didn’t just take the highest offer provided to them, without relaying to other teams for counter offers?
by sfgfan on Apr 3, 2009 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm confused
You ask how do you know offers weren’t made. I said that from what I gather the Broncos had similar offers from other teams. I recently learned this, according to Hub Arkush:
The deal looked like it was gonna be 1st round 1009, 3rd round 2009 and Orton, for Cutler.
Then, mid-day yesterday… Washington stepped and increased the pot, that’s when Angelo immediately put his foot on the throttle and threw in the 2010 1st round pick. Done.
by GeoMak on Apr 3, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't responding to you.
I was responding to bondslegend, and I misread his quote. I thought he was asking “Why the hell you would ANY NFL team not make this offer?” as if he was thinking other teams were staying out of the bidding. Misread, on my part.
I actually feel, like you, that the Bears got a pretty good deal (as did Denver). At least for now, it seems like a very fair trade, which is often not the case.
by sfgfan on Apr 3, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
best of look to cutler to reproduced his success
when instead of eddie royal and brandon marshall he has devin hester and… ?
and instead of passing behind the blocking of Ryans Clady and Harris he has Chris williams coming off of back surgery, and…?
course Matt Forte is, by all accounts and upgrade over Peyton Hillis (though it’s hard not to love that dude) and he does have the Bears D, but still…
by foosball4949 on Apr 2, 2009 9:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Rashied Davis is really good
and now that he has an NFL QB you’ll see that’s the case. I’m not touching ANYone on Denver’s offense in fantasy this year. Cutler was their offense, without him they are all really going to struggle. As for the Bears, Hester is now a number 2 fantasy WR and Rashied Davis is right up there. Greg Olsen is the new Tony Scheffler.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley [insert witty comment]
Thanks to roger
by bondslegend on Apr 3, 2009 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe...
… that people actually think the Bears won this deal.
The Bears have a top 5 receiving back in the league in Matt Forte and ONE vertical threat (Hester). They could have easily stuck with what they had and complemented the team with draft picks. Instead, they are now without a 1st round pick for the next two drafts and gave up a 3rd rounder in addition. In essence, Cutler has to save a franchise with an aging and declining defense.
If you’re the Broncos, you just pulled off the steal of the century. Next year’s QB class: Sam Bradford, Colt McCoy, Tim Hiller, Dan LeFevour
They can either trade up with their extra picks and take Bradford or take a Roethlisberger/Flacco kind of pick with Hiller or LeFevour.
The Broncos are also in position to get two impact players this year and don’t have to search for a replaceement for Cutler.
The real losers in this: Patriots. How can you justify a 2nd round pick for Cassel after this coup?
Rays in '08.... Desmond Jennings - the breakout continues.....
by youALREADYknow on Apr 3, 2009 11:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Look
Both teams won. The Broncos got rid of a disgrunteled QB for two # 1’s and a third and Orton. However, if they mess up those picks (which isn’t a stretch given their recent draft history) they really don’t win.
The Bears? They’ve gone through 30 starting QB’s in the last 30 years. They exchanged this years #18 pick for a young, proven, Pro-Bowl QB. They used their 1st round pick early this year. Two teams are going to use higher picks than #18 on Stafford and Sanchez and hope that those guys pan out. The Bears already know what Cutler can do.
So, they used the #18 pick in the 2009 draft on Cutler. Pretty good deal. They gave up a good QB in Orton, who they don’t really need anymore. They lose next years #1 draft pick. Jerry Angelo’s history with the Bears is that he’s only 50/50 on #1 picks.
There’s 50% chance that the Bears 2010 #1 pick will be a bust if drafted by Angelo. Actually, league wide, the 1st round is close to 50/50.
They give up a 3rd this year (they have an extra 3rd) and gain a 5th.
In summary:
1. They use the 18th pick in the 2008 draft on a franchise QB, something they’ve lack in a quarter century.
2. They lose a good QB who they really don’t need anymore.
3. They lose next years #1 pick, which only had a 50% chance of being an impact player, based on Angelo’s history.
4. They lose one of their two 3rd round picks.
If Cutler solidifies the QB position in Chicago for the next decade, it’s a STEAL!
by GeoMak on Apr 3, 2009 2:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with what you're saying...
… for the most part. The only thing anyone can really argue against the Bears is basically: “what will Cutler have to work with now? Acquiring help for him will definitely be difficult without first round picks.” Of course, support players come from all rounds of the draft, so that’s a natural rebuttal.
Basically, both teams made the trade and just hope for the best.
by sfgfan on Apr 3, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forte and Olson are excellent
Hester has only played WR for one year in his life (last year). He started figuring it out in the latter half of the year. Comments have been made that Hester was open quite a bit but Orton didn’t get the ball to him. I like Hester in his second year alongside Cutler. They drafted Earl Bennett last year who played with Culter at Vanderbilt, so maybe he can step up. They obviously need help at WR so I am sure they’ll go that route in the draft.
They need help on the line too. But I live in Phoenix. In the past two years, thanks mostly to Russ Grimm, the O-Line has played well and there are no Pro-Bowlers (let alone HOF’ers) on that line.
Besides the main thing (to me) is this: It’s not like Favre coming in. You have to win now in that case. Cutler could easily play another 10+ years. The Bears just have to get better and better each year, and not regress.
by GeoMak on Apr 3, 2009 3:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Winning now.
The last argument makes sense. I think that as long as the Bears can be at the very least, decent, Cutler will elevate the level of play of all the players you mentioned.
by sfgfan on Apr 3, 2009 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
According to Larry Fitzgerald, Warner did more for him than Fitzgerald did for Warner. That’s somewhat debatable, but still, he said it. It will be interesting to see how Marshall and Royal do now in Denver without Cutler. I like Orton (my understanding is that Denver wanted Orton over guys like Campbell and that Orton helped swing the deal in favor of the Bears). I watched him last year and I watched all Shaun Hill’s games. They are both similar QB’s. Good leaders and good game managers. I like them both. But both of them struggle with the long ball. Obviously, Cutler has no problem there.
It will be interesting to watch how this plays out, for both the Bears and the Broncos, in the next few years. Yesterday (for better or worse) was a defining day for both franchises.
by GeoMak on Apr 3, 2009 3:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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