Niners Nation: "Hypothetical" #1 - Points or Push?
by ProfessorBigelow on Apr 6, 2009 5:33 PM PDT
in NFL Draft
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PrintI might lose a little credibility here by saying this, but last night I watched Wreslemania 25 with some friends at a bar. I hadn't seen the WWF (I refuse to call it by its new name) in years, and it was amusing to see the acrobatics and bad acting again. One of the matches last night really interested me; The Undertaker vs. Shaun Michaels. When I was growing up, these two were the kings of Wrestlemania, and I was somewhat shocked that the two were wrestling each other now. I remembered when I was a kid and played the WWF Wrestlemania video game for SNES, and had the power to create those magical, hypothetical matchups that everyone wants to see: Hulk Hogan vs Yokozuna, Andre the Giant vs The Ultimate Warrior, Ric Flair vs Roddy Roddy Piper, etc.
Now, what the hell does that have to do with the NIners? This dream match-up thing got me thinking about the draft... Once a team has scouted all of the players they want to scout, interviewed who they wanted to interview, and poured over the game tapes of hundreds of players, what else could you do to get ready for the draft? Dream up some hypothetical scenarios thats what. "Lets just say that players X, Y and Z are on the board at our pick... what should we do???"
Since many have done their research, made their mocks, and have their opinions on all of the potential future superstars of the NFL, now we are going to put you to work Nation. The Nation bloggers will put out a scenario, outlining the first 9 picks of the draft. Your job will be to use your knowledge and supreme literary talents to convince the Nation who/what would be the best decision in that scenario. Some scenarios will be likely ones (such as mirroring Kiper's first nine, or Mocking the Draft's), while some might be some wierd ones...
Keep in mind, the mock first nine picks are not what I think will happen, not what I hope will happen, or could be no where even close to sane. However the point of this is not to analyze the theoretical picks other teams made, but to theorize what the Niners would do in a situation, similar to this one...
- Lions - Matthew Stafford, QB - Georgia
- St. Louis - Jason Smith, OT - Baylor
- KC - Aaron Curry, LB - Wake Forest
- Seattle - Mark Sanchez, QB - USC
- Cleveland - Brian Orakpo, DE/OLB - Texas
- Cincinnati - Malcolm Jenkins, DB - Ohio St.
- Oakland - Andre Smith, OL - Alabama
- Jacksonville - Vontae Davis, CB - Illinois
- Green Bay - Eugene Monroe, OT - Virginia
Oh Ho! It seems like some valuable treasures have been left behind for us... Crabtree peaks my interest here, but we have established that WR is more of a want, not a need. A push is needed from the D line, and that need can be filled by Raji, and Everette Brown. There are many options here, but only one other thing that needs to be said...
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DO YOU NOT REMEMBER JJ OR RASHAUN WOODS?
no WR in the first round
If you had a lineup of 9 Jack Custs who hit(Cust career average) .239 AVG, .382 OBP, and .475 SLG, then your team would score 6.12 runs per game-totalling to 991runs a season.The 08 rangers lead the majors in runs score with 901.
That's not fair
What about Jim Drunkmiller or Alex Smith
What about R.W. McQuarters and Mike Rumph
What about Reggie McGrew and Ted Washington
What about Dexter Carter and Kwame Harris
Ok, that was not nice at all. I need a Prozac after looking at that list.
manny lawson
kentwan balmer
enough said
Other than death and taxes, only 4 things in this world are indisputable:
Brandon Roy is the BEST player in the NBA in the clutch.
Montana to Rice were the greatest to ever play the game.
The Four Horsemen of Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine and Avery were unstoppable.
No one protects the pipes like Luongo.
by GreatOden'sRaven on Apr 6, 2009 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I choose you... Raji! Go!!!
Pokemon reference. Come on, Bigelow based this post off of the WWE. I digress.
I would select Raji at #10 here. My reasons are as follows:
A) Defensive and Offensive Linemen are the most valued of all positions IMO. They are down there in the trenches and they can have an impact on virtually every single play. On running plays, O linemen open lanes and create holes and D linemen penetrate and plug up gaps. On passing downs, the O line is intergral in giving the QB enough time to see the play develop and allow the recievers to break free, while D Linemen pin their ears back and look to hurry the QB, or best case senario, knock his block off. A reciever has little impact on running plays. A LB isn’t going to have much to say on a deep pass play when he drops in a shallow zone. Offensive and Defensive linemen make an impact on every play. +5 for Raji.
B) An upgrade at NT will be felt throughout the entire defense. For example. Say Raji is the force he seems to be on film. He may begin to draw a double team in the middle. That means a blocker who would otherwise be free to pick up a blitzing LB will be occupied. That translates to sacks, plain and simple. Even if Harrelson or Lawson get picked up by a RB, the matchup is in our favor. It’s money in the bank. Sacks and hurries will create oppurtunities for the secondary also. Our corners won’t have to worry about the dreaded double-move nearly as much and our safeties may see a few hurried, inaccurate passes fluttering out there in no-man’s land. Can you say “Goldson, pick six?”
C) Our NT spot is in dyer need of an upgrade. Sopoaga is undersized, but would make a solid #2 in the rotation. Harrelson and Lawson are coming into their own, so the need at OLB isn’t nearly as urgent. The same can be said for Morgan and Hill, and with Bruce coming back, I think WR is pretty solid as well.
Three words: Pull. The. Trigger.
by Patrick J Smiles on Apr 6, 2009 6:10 PM PDT reply actions
The Raiders take Andre Smith?
Dude we are super solid at O-Line it will be the best it has in years we would never take Andre Smith I can guarantee that if your 1-6 picks are true we will grab Crabtree in a heartbeat.
"We want to Win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it,even my organization deserves it. You have to Win and Win with a vision of the Super Bowl. That's our passion here"- Mr. Davis
Yo Neon
I see how you handle people who are fans of other teams. I could have came here and talk Shit about your team but, someone has to be a adult and obviously it’s not you.
"We want to Win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it,even my organization deserves it. You have to Win and Win with a vision of the Super Bowl. That's our passion here"- Mr. Davis
Theoretical - adj -
a: relating to or having the character of theory : abstract
b: confined to theory or speculation often in contrast to practical applications : speculative
Blind devotion.
by ProfessorBigelow on Apr 6, 2009 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions
super solid?
Cornell Green? Really?
FWIW, I have the Raiders taking Andre Smith at 7 since I believe Crabtree will be off the board. It’s between Andre Smith and Jeremy Maclin and the Raiders have a history of not taking WR’s in round 1.
Rays in '08.... Desmond Jennings - the breakout continues.....
by youALREADYknow on Apr 6, 2009 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions
You must have forgot about
The others we have signed such as Khalif Barnes,Satele, and Henderson who have proven themself and under Tom Cable our ex-Offensive line coach
"We want to Win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it,even my organization deserves it. You have to Win and Win with a vision of the Super Bowl. That's our passion here"- Mr. Davis
These are great points, but I'd still take an OT
I really like Michael Oher if he’s there at #10 like he is in this situational. I can see the Crabtree and Raji arguments – both would be rational picks. I veer against Crabtree simply b/c of the poor success rate of WRs picked in the first round. Raji I like but I think we can get a very good DT in the second – even his teammate at BC, Brace, looks like he’ll be there and I’d think he’d command a double team right away.
The reason I like Oher is mainly because of his run blocking. After the BIG 4 OTs, (Jason Smith, Eugene Monroe, Andre Smith and Michael Oher) you just don’t get the same quality of run blocking. There’s a significant drop-off. Given that we want to run and run hard, I think that getting an “adequate” RT or a “value” RT is not the right approach. I think you go with the guy who’s going to intimidate and physically dominate the opposing D-Line, and I don’t think you can get that after the BIG 4 are off the board.
agreed, I'd take Oher
- instead of B.J. Raji or Everett Brown because (a) we picked Kentwan Balmer in the 1st pick in last year’s draft, and (b) there are pass rushers to be had in the later rounds (Sidbury, Veikune, Cody Brown) … that said, it would be hard to be angry if we got B.J. or Everett
- instead of Crabtree because (a) we just invested Brandon Jones who could conceivably be a good upgrade from Bryant Johnson, (b) either Josh Morgan or Jason Hill are going to turn out to be gold, © Isaac Bruce is coming back, (d) there are other WRs with upside to be had later in the draft, (e) Crabtree is looking a like a little more of a risky pick than he did 3 months ago
- because (a) we’ve ignored and tried temporary solutions for our offensive line long enough, it’s time to ensure we have a stellar one again, and (b) Marvel Smith is high risk/high reward – with the opportunity to get Oher, we’d have an Staley/Oher tandum for years to come – it’d be beautiful
"Those boos really motivate me to make something happen." - Bonds
but balmer is not a nose tackle
and a nose tackle is much needed in a 3-4. dont say abrayuh because i saw mi get pancaked by an eagles rb last year
If you had a lineup of 9 Jack Custs who hit(Cust career average) .239 AVG, .382 OBP, and .475 SLG, then your team would score 6.12 runs per game-totalling to 991runs a season.The 08 rangers lead the majors in runs score with 901.
I get taking Oher, I do...
but we do have Marvel Smith. Nose Tackle is a much more pressing need. Not to mention, if you go with Oher, you are taking the 4th best player available at his position in the draft and making him sit behind a probowler for at least a year. If you take Raji you get the top NT(argueably) and if all goes well, he’ll start right away.
by Patrick J Smiles on Apr 6, 2009 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions
This
Joe Martinez!: Eagles fly together!!!!!
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
wait, NT is one of our pressing needs???
Franklin and Sopoaga may not be #1 ranked Nose Tackles, but I thought they have the position filled better than a good 4-5 other positions right now (RT, FS, left OLB, left DE, RB depth, CB depth, etc.)
"Those boos really motivate me to make something happen." - Bonds
I agree
I picked Oher as well. I liked the way our defense improved last year, and we still have some guys on the D-line that need to prove themselves. I think we can address that in the second round at the earliest. The offense still needs to improve and control the ball. It starts with the O-line, they dominate there, and everything else will fall into place. As we saw last year, when our offense can stay on the field and give our defense a little rest, they play pretty damn well. They need to continue to grow on that, I would like to see a dominate O-lineman get picked up.
Oher is a huge reach for me
I think he falls to late 20s
Other than death and taxes, only 4 things in this world are indisputable:
Brandon Roy is the BEST player in the NBA in the clutch.
Montana to Rice were the greatest to ever play the game.
The Four Horsemen of Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine and Avery were unstoppable.
No one protects the pipes like Luongo.
by GreatOden'sRaven on Apr 6, 2009 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I DO I DO!!
Other than death and taxes, only 4 things in this world are indisputable:
Brandon Roy is the BEST player in the NBA in the clutch.
Montana to Rice were the greatest to ever play the game.
The Four Horsemen of Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine and Avery were unstoppable.
No one protects the pipes like Luongo.
by GreatOden'sRaven on Apr 6, 2009 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions
well..
Jerry Rice and Deion Sanders endorse Michael Crabtree… so who am I to disagree.
I’ve seen 8-9 TTU games and Crabtree is as good as it gets for NFL WR prospects. The only guys I’ve been more impressed with out of college were Larry Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson.
Rays in '08.... Desmond Jennings - the breakout continues.....
Yeah...
I don’t disagree with the fact that Crabtree is an amazing athlete and great WR. I watched him quite a few times this past season myself, I am just not sold on him. I don’t know why, I am just one of those people that doesn’t like picking an early receiver, unless maybe your team is good enough to give it a try, which I do not think we are. I mean just look at what Morgan did last year as a 6th round pick, definitely do not want an early receiver, “Morgans” emerge every year in the NFL, scouts just have to do their homework.
I'm with you on philosophy
I think drafting at QB/HB/WR in the top 10 picks should be reserved for superstar talent, but I also believe Crabtree is that kind of player and fits the QB talent we have perfectly.
The only hard thing is choosing between Crabtree and Raji. Nose tackle is the single most important position for the Niners, so I can’t see them passing on a legit NT prospect when there are so few to choose from.
Rays in '08.... Desmond Jennings - the breakout continues.....
by youALREADYknow on Apr 6, 2009 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Nose tackle is the single most important position for the Niners …
After reading, thinking, and discussing our draft needs for months – the idea that nose tackle is our most pressing need is just new to me … I’m not necessarily arguing against it, I just haven’t even really thought about it yet.
"Those boos really motivate me to make something happen." - Bonds
I think...
… may people, including myself, feel that the 3-4 nose is the most important position on the front seven. Franklin has shown previously that he can’t two-gap, and the 49ers have adjusted to a single-gap 3-4 because of that. Sopoaga, on the other hand, has been repeatedly mentioned as someone who is a better fit on the ends where he has a little more room to work, so I’m of the impression he doesn’t fit at the nose, either.
A 3-4 nose will make the DE’s jobs easier, and thus help the pass rush. Will it help it as much as just adding more talent to OLB? That’s to be seen, but I’m pretty sure a true nose in the front three will help out significantly.
This is not to say that I want Raji to play NT, as what I read about him makes him out to be a penetrating force, not someone who really hunkers down and holds the point. His teammate, Brace, sounds like a better option to fill that kind of a role.
I’d put NT above DB help (other than FS). The need for a RT is great, but not so great that the team needs to reach for one at #10 or draft a new LT and move Staley to RT.
I know you weren’t arguing the point or anything. I just thought I’d share what I feel, and what I think others feel.
NT = 3-4 defense
In a 2 gap 3-4 scheme, your NT is your defense.
Good luck getting any kind of pass rush from ANY OLB unless the NT can occupy space.
I don’t think Raji is an elite NT prospect, but he’s a good one and an upgrade over what we currently have. I’d take a good NT over a great OLB right now in the draft.
Rays in '08.... Desmond Jennings - the breakout continues.....
by youALREADYknow on Apr 7, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Thing is...
… I not only don’t think that Raji is an elite NT, I don’t believe he’s an NT at all. I think that if the 49ers draft him, they won’t be able to switch to a two-gapping 3-4 scheme, as he just doesn’t sound like a two-gapping kind of DT. He sounds A LOT like a really good 4-3 DT, something along the lines of Warren Sapp (skillwise), but maybe not quite.
If he can’t play a true 3-4 NT, he isn’t worth the top 10 pick. Hopefully the 49ers will decide if he can or can’t before/if they take him.
Great point
I really like this analysis and I totally agree with it. I also like that it’s not just a way of saying “…therefore we MUST get BJ Raji” and there’s no point in looking at anyone else.
Fooch – has there been a big Nost Tackle post, evaluating the options that will be there in the first few rounds? It sounds like the conversation on this blog has moved towards nose tackle being a top-5, if not top-3, concern.
Whatever you feel about the options at DT on our team, it doesn’t appear as if either is a true 2-gap 3-4 Nose Tackle. Maybe forcing the opposing O-Line to double our NT is the ticket to the pass rush we’ve all been longing for for years now?
nose tackles
No there hasn’t been a nose tackle specific post. We’ve got a few other things in the hopper for this week so if I don’t get something up Thursday I think I’ll put something together early next week. Good suggestion though.
Although he didn’t come across like a normal nose tackle, I was pleased with Aubrayo Franklin’s performance much of this season.
by David Fucillo on Apr 7, 2009 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions
+1
Cause I think you made this up . . .
Jerry Rice and Deion Sanders endorse Michael Crabtree… so who am I to disagree.
lol
At the combine, Rice and Sanders were saying that Crabtree is the real deal and they were working with him on his route running.
Rays in '08.... Desmond Jennings - the breakout continues.....
by youALREADYknow on Apr 6, 2009 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions
link
By far my favorite clip from the combine and the funniest. Fast forward to 2:20 past the Cushing crap.
Rays in '08.... Desmond Jennings - the breakout continues.....
by youALREADYknow on Apr 6, 2009 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions
This will never happen.
There will not be two DBs going before no.10.
It’s unlikely that any defensive back will go that early.
it's a hypo
Just trying to generate some discussion with these not necessarily be totally realistic.
by David Fucillo on Apr 6, 2009 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I only feel it's fair...
to ask, did you get the idea for this post from the one i posted a week or so ago? Because the concepts are eerily similar. I’m just saying…
http://www.ninersnation.com/2009/3/30/815804/what-if-we-episode-01-the
by Patrick J Smiles on Apr 6, 2009 9:04 PM PDT reply actions
hypo idea
When I emailed Bigelow about this idea I wasn’t thinking of yours. I do remember it now that you mention it and maybe it was subliminally there influencing the idea. Doing it on the front page gives us a little more exposure to the idea so I would think it could work for both.
by David Fucillo on Apr 6, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Not to worry...
i’m not going to sue. like they say, “great minds…”
by Patrick J Smiles on Apr 6, 2009 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Crabtree without question
I imagine someone sprains something running to the podium to turn in the card. may this happen and i will be a happy man.
Other than death and taxes, only 4 things in this world are indisputable:
Brandon Roy is the BEST player in the NBA in the clutch.
Montana to Rice were the greatest to ever play the game.
The Four Horsemen of Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine and Avery were unstoppable.
No one protects the pipes like Luongo.
by GreatOden'sRaven on Apr 6, 2009 9:27 PM PDT reply actions
dude
my friend got Wrestlemania and it was pretty awesome. I haven’t watched wrestling in a while but that was a pretty good show. That Ricky the Dragon Steamboat is the [site decorum]. He’s like almost 60 years old doing flips and stuff. Don’t even get me started on the Undertaker’s 17-0 streak in Wrestlemania’s. I knew the Heartbreak Kid had no chance in that match. Oh yeah and Stone Cold Steve Austin on a 4-wheeler!! It was like 1998 again!
Oh this post was about the draft….my bad
Simply by pulling on both ends, Patrick Willis can stretch diamonds back into coal
Bret Hart
I always hated Shawn Michaels because of the whole Bret Hart controversy.
Bret Hart was the best there is, was and ever will be.
For the record.
by Andrew Davidson on Apr 7, 2009 7:08 AM PDT up reply actions
The Excellence of Execution
hard to argue with that
Simply by pulling on both ends, Patrick Willis can stretch diamonds back into coal
Shouldn't you hate Vince for that, not Shawn
I always saw Shawn as the ambitious man stuck in the middle of Hart and McMahon, and more than happy to take the title when given to him. Vince was going to screw the Hitman no matter what, it didn’t matter that it was HBK, he was just a pawn in play.
Blind devotion.
by ProfessorBigelow on Apr 7, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
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