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The Art (and Science) of Drafting: I. Niner Picks 1994-2008

AUTHOR'S NOTE: Hello again everyone. What with a lull in the NFL calendar, and my recent move to Fort Lauderdale, I've been AWOL on Niners Nation for much of the past month. Also, I've been steadily plugging away at several articles that will be appearing in the lead-up to the draft. I hope you enjoy them, and don't go cross-eyed after reading all the numbers.

April is one of those months that's chock full of events. There's April Fool's Day, Easter, Passover, Buddha's Birthday - just trying to get all the religions in here - Tax Day, The Boston Marathon, Earth Day, Opening Day (most of the time), and, for the stoners among us, 4/20. Although I have been known to pull a prank or two, my favorite event in April is the NFL Draft.

Now, as I've stated before on Niners Nation, I'm admittedly ignorant when it comes to college football outside of Gainesville, so for me the allure of the draft is not about rating players, projecting draft picks, or drinking games that involve doing a shot every time Mel Kiper, Jr., gets a pick wrong (I'm usually drunk by the middle of the 1st round). Rather, I love the draft for 3 reasons: (a) It reminds me that training camp is only 3 months away; (b) It gives my beloved 49ers another opportunity to improve their roster; and (c) It represents the most intense phase of the year-round dispute between Game Film Guys and Numbers Nerds.

It seems that, as the draft approaches each year, there's an obligatory discussion on ESPN, sports talk radio, and other media that usually takes the form, "Does (insert NFL Combine measurement here) really matter?" Whether it's a RB's 40-yard speed, a WR's vertical jump height, a DL's 225-pound bench press count, or a QB's Wonderlic score, you have one group of team personnel and fans who rattle off the "measurables" like they're the Da Vinci Code of drafting, while another group devotedly obeys the 11th commandment, which states, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy scouting report." In other words, no matter how slow, flightless, weak, or dumb a player shows himself to be at the Combine, all that matters is the opinion of team scouts.

As is the case with most things in nature, though, the truth probably lies somewhere in between, not to mention the fact that there are two things about the NFL that render the debate a sideshow. First, the NFL is about as transparent as the CIA when it comes to gathering and using information; it's nearly impossible to know exactly how each team weighs film and stats in their draft selections. Second, the NFL, like the CIA, is all about results. In Santa Clara, the last 3 head coaches can definitely vouch for that view. So the pertinent question here is not, "Does (insert stat or scouting report info here) matter?" Rather, it's, "Does a team's overall draft strategy -whether partial to stats or scouting reports - produce wins?"

So with that said, the stage is set for my 4-part NFL Draft preview. Over the next 2 weeks, I'm not going to be telling you about correlations between Combine "measurables" and NFL stats, and I definitely won't be attempting to tell you whether Saturday game film predicts Sunday performance. As it relates to the 49ers, rather than evaluating players in the 2009 draft, I'm going to be evaluating the team's overall draft strategies in the Salary Cap Era (1994-2008).

After the jump, I'll finish up the intro, and then proceed with (a) breaking down the 49er draft picks over the past 15 years; and (b) identifying some trends with respect to rounds, positions, and conferences...

Star-divide

Now, when I say, "overall draft strategy," I'm talking about things like preferring players from a specific conference, or, perhaps, preferring to draft certain positions in certain rounds. So you see, rather than focusing on the "How?" or "Why?" of SF draft picks (i.e., via stats vs. scouting reports) - which are basically left to the imagination - I'm more interested in the "When" and "From where?" - which are relatively easy to figure out.

In terms of the results side of things, I'm going to look at two outcomes: (a) how many draft picks became regular starters for the 49ers, and (b) how many draft picks made the Pro Bowl as a Niner. Whereas the reason for looking at Pro Bowlers is pretty obvious, you might argue that drafting a regular starter is less so. Well, don't fret. I did a hardcore stat analysis on the relationship between team wins and the number of starters who were drafted by the team, and found that - you guessed it - there was a pretty considerable one. From 2006-2008, teams with more drafted starters won more games. The relationship was even stronger when I looked at years of experience for drafted starters. Check out this table for a pretty definitive display of the relationship:

Ranks 1-10

Ranks 23-32

Team

Yrs Exp

Team

Yrs Exp

PIT

234

KC

109

JAC

191

BUF

105

PHI

188

SF

95

NE

181

OAK

87

IND

168

WAS

85

GB

163

MIA

81

BAL

162

DEN

81

DAL

157

HOU

80

NYG

154

NO

76

CIN

144

CLE

50

The left side of the table (top 10 in years of experience for drafted starters) is basically a who's who of successful teams over the past 3 seasons, including the 3 Super Bowl champs, whereas the right side (bottom 10) is a list of perennial cellar-dwellars and underachievers during that time. Obviously, there isn't a 1-to-1 relationship here; you can definitely see a situation where a free-agent-laden team wins a lot of games. Nevertheless, the moral of the story is this: If you want to win games in the NFL, one effective way to get there is by drafting players who become full-time starters.

Of course, it's pretty useless to just tell you how many draft picks became starters for the 49ers in the Salary Cap Era. Not only is it easy for you to find out for yourself; it also has absolutely no frame of reference. If I say that number is 30, it begs the question, "Is 30 good or bad when compared to other NFL teams?" After all, the point here is not to simply answer, "What strategies?" It's to figure out, "What strategies win?"

To answer the latter question, I'm going to be making a couple of comparisons. First, I'm going to compare the 49er draft results to that of the best (and most consistent) team in the Salary Cap Era: The New England Patriots. Though some of you might be expecting a comparison against the league average or something akin to it, let's just say this post would be going up about 6 months after the draft if I had to collect the relevant data for all 32 teams. Second, I'm going to compare draft strategies for each 49er GM (or coach-GM duo) since 1994: Policy, Walsh, Donahue, and McNolan. In this comparison, I'm going to focus specifically on how McNolan stacks up against the other 3 regimes. Finally, I'm going to compare the draft strategies of McNolan to that of each Patriot GM (or coach-GM duo) since 1994: Parcells, Grier, and Piolichick (or how about Belioli? Nah, sounds too much like a brand of olive oil).

So, before moving on, let's do a couple of things. First, as a gift from me to you, here is a spreadsheet detailing and summarizing the Niners' draft picks during the Salary Cap Era:

49er Draft Picks 1994-2008

 

And below is the schedule for this 4-part story:

  1. 4/8/09 - SF team draft history (and outcomes) focusing on strategy by round, position, and conference
  2. 4/10/09 - SF regime draft history (and outcomes) focusing on strategy by round, position, and conference
  3. 4/15/09 - Comparison of SF and NE team draft strategies
  4. 4/17/09 - Comparison of SF and NE regime draft strategies

PAC IT UP, PAC IT IN, LET ME BEGIN

Since 1994, the 49ers have made 118 selections in the NFL draft, which works out to about 8 picks per season. The most picks in any given year was 11 in 2000 and 2005, which were rebuilding years not surprisingly. The fewest picks in any given year was 3 in 1997, and the 2nd fewest was 4 in 1995. Both of these were not rebuilding years. Clearly, the Niners have seemed to follow a logical pattern of stockpiling picks when they suck, and shedding picks when they're good. In a certain way, this provides an answer to Fooch's recent post about drafting for now vs. drafting for the future. Over the past 15 years, they've drafted for the future for sure. It's just that, rather than drafting for now when they're good, the Niners instead chose to not draft for the future (i.e., they chose to have fewer picks).

In terms of rounds, the 49ers have had 21 picks in the 7th round, 18 picks in the 1st round, 18 picks in the 3rd round, 18 picks in the 6th round, 16 picks in the 4th round, 14 picks in the 5th round, and 13 picks in the 2nd round. The difference between 1st- and 2nd-round picks reflects a tendency to trade the latter for the former, whereas their stockpiling of 6th- and 7th-round picks is a result of compensatory selections and trading down (or out) for value.

I'd bet you don't know what position is the most represented among 49er draft picks in the Salary Cap Era. Go ahead and take a guess. If you said DL, you'd be right. Overall, the Niners have taken 22 DLs, 21 DBs, 18 WRs, 15 LBs, 14 OLs, 9 TEs, 7 QBs, 6 RBs, 3 FBs, 2 Ks, and 1 P. The fact that 3 of the top 4 positions are on defense is probably due to having repeated defensive issues since 1994, and having a defensive-minded head coach for the past 4 seasons.

Any guesses as to what conference is the most represented among the 49ers' 118 picks since 1994? This one should be rather easy. It's the Pac-10, of course, with 20 picks. Among the other BCS conferences, they've chosen 19 SEC players, 15 Big 10 players, 13 Big 12 players, 13 Big East players, 9 ACC players, and 5 Notre Dame players (they're BCS by proxy). The only non-BCS conference represented by more than 2 picks was the WAC (5). Interestingly enough - and I swear I'm not trying to make a racially charged point here - the Niners haven't taken a player from the MEAC, home to the traditionally Black colleges, in the Salary Cap Era.

What say you of the 49ers when it comes to drafting players who eventually become full-time starters? The correct answer is 50, or 42.4%. You'll have to wait until next week to find out how that compares to the Patriots. Same goes for the number of Pro Bowlers that the 49ers have drafted. The correct answer here is 11, or 9.3%.

Bottom line - Here's what I think are the main things to take away from this section:

  • The 49ers have selected 118 players in the NFL Draft from 1994-2008.
  • The 49ers have had more picks when they're bad than when they're good.
  • The 49ers have predominately focused on drafting DLs and DBs.
  • The 49ers have predominately taken players from the Pac 10.
  • 42.4% of the 49ers' draft picks have become regular starters - and 9.3% have made the Pro Bowl - while with the team.

ROUND AND ROUND, WHAT COMES AROUND GOES AROUND

OK, so now we know how many of the 49ers' 118 draft picks since 1994 have come in each round. So what did the Niners do with them? Let's start with the 1st round.

In the 1st round, the Niners have basically had an even split between offense and defense. Specifically, they've picked 4 DLs, 3 LBs, 3 DBs, 2 QBs, 2 WRs, 1 FB, and 1 TE. What's more interesting is what they haven't picked, aka RB. That's right, the 49ers haven't used their 1st-round pick on a RB during the Salary Cap Era. Put another way, the Niners have selected as many RBs in the 1st round as they have Ks or Ps.

With respect to conferences among 1st-round picks, the most represented one might surprise you given what I told you earlier. It's the ACC. Since 1994, the Niners have used their 1st-round picks on 4 ACC players, 3 Pac-10 players, 2 Big 10 players, 2 Big 12 players, 2 Big East players, 2 SEC players, 1 Independent player, 1 MAC player, and 1 MWC player. If you tally that up, it's 16 1st-round picks from BCS conferences (including Notre Dame) and 2 from non-BCS conferences. Clearly, then, the 49ers have a fondness for big-school talent in the 1st round, and the ACC isn't much represented after the 1st round.

While DLs (3) and DBs (3) continue to be picked in the 2nd round, another position emerges as the favorite: OL, of which there have been 4 selected. What's interesting about the 2nd round is that OL is practically the only offensive position that the 49ers have taken. In fact, the Niners haven't selected a skill position player on offense in the past 15 years. That's right, no QBs, no RBs, no WRs. Is that crazy or what?

How about conferences in the 2nd round? Well, the Pac-10 remains strong (3), but the Big East (4) takes the lead. Among the other BCS conferences, the 49ers have taken 2 from the Big 10, 2 from the SEC, 1 from the Big 12, and 1 from Notre Dame. Wait, that adds up to 13, and the Niners have only had 13 2nd-round picks. See a trend emerging? They've favored BCS players in the 2nd round - to the tune of 100% - even more than they have in the 1st round (88.9%).

Apparently, there's a good reason for why the Niners haven't taken skill position players in the 2nd round. It's because they'd rather wait for the 3rd round. Namely, after taking 0 QBs, RBs, and WRs in the 2nd round, they've taken 1 QB, 2 RBs, and 5 WRs in the 3rd round. Among the other positions in Round 2, a DL has been taken 3 times, and every position has been taken at least once except for FB and P.

Among conferences, the 49ers' 3rd-round picks have continued the 1st- and 2nd-round trend: They're likely in a BCS conference. Indeed, this time, the BCS rate is 15 of 18 (83.3%). Which conference is most represented? The Pac-10 (4), followed by the SEC (3).

Rather than boring you with Rounds 4-7, I'll just provide the highlights:

  • In the 4th round, DB (6) has been a focus among the 16 picks, as has been the Big 12 (4). Both the percentage of picks on defense and the BCS rate were 68.8%, with the BCS rate representing a good-sized decrease from Rounds 1-3.
  • In the 5th round, DL (4) moves back to the top, with the other 12 picks being spread out pretty evenly. Also, the BCS rate stays relatively steady at 71.4%.
  • In the 6th round, WR (5) and DB (4) re-emerged as preferred options, and the BCS rate increased to 77.8%.
  • In the 7th round, TE (5) and LB (4) finally show up, perhaps because these are your typical special teamers. Also, the BCS rate dropped back down to 71.4%.

So what have the 49ers gotten from each round? Well, 72.2% of their 1st-rounders have become regular starters, as have 84.6% of their 2nd-rounders, 44.4% of their 3rd-rounders, 31.2% of their 4th-rounders, 7.1% of their 5th-rounders, 38.9% of their 6th-rounders, and 23.8% of their 7th-rounders. When you combine their 5th-round starter rate with their propensity for shedding 5th-round picks, the 49ers must be using the 5th round as their brunch break on Day 2 of the draft.

Regarding Pro Bowlers, the Niners have picked 3 in the 1st round and 3 in the 6th round since 1994. Those 6 represent over half of the 11 total Pro Bowlers they've selected. And what's the only round in which the 49ers haven't selected a Pro Bowler? You guessed it; the lazy 5th.

Bottom line - Here's what I think are the main things to take away from this section:

  • The 49ers haven't picked 1st-round RBs.
  • The 49ers have almost exclusively picked BCS players on Day 1 of the draft.
  • Aside from OLs, the 49ers haven't taken offensive players in the 2nd round.
  • The 49ers have waited until the 3rd round to take RBs and WRs.
  • The 49ers have used the 7th round to take positions most appropriate for special teams.
  • The 49ers have been more successful at getting starters in the 1st and 2nd rounds than they are in subsequent rounds.
  • The 49ers have taken the 5th round off.

ASSUME THE POSITION

I've already broken down each round by position, so I'll start out this section by supplementing that info with some trends related to the reverse case: each position by round. For instance, did you know that the 49ers have taken more QBs in the 7th round (3) than in the 1st (2)? Of course, that's probably a reflection of the fact that the Niners didn't need a QB in the Young and Garcia years, were gun shy after the Jim Druckenmiller experience, and since 2005 have been giving Alex Smith every opportunity in the world to become their franchise QB. One more interesting position-by-round tidbit is that 5 of the 9 TEs taken by the 49ers since 1994 were drafted in the 7th round.

If we break it down by draft day, here's how the 118 Niner picks shake out:

Pos

Day 1

Day 2

Total

QB

3

4

7

RB

2

4

6

FB

2

1

3

WR

7

11

18

TE

2

7

9

OL

8

6

14

DL

10

12

22

LB

7

8

15

DB

7

14

21

K

1

1

2

P

0

1

1

Total

49

69

118

 

Summarizing this table, it seems like the 49ers only have a distinct position-by-day pattern for TEs, DBs, and perhaps WRs: They've taken more players from these positions on Day 2. Otherwise, it's a pretty even split within position.

When it comes to conferences, almost every position is dominated by BCS players. The general trend is that 80% of the 49ers drafted at each position have come from BCS conferences (and Notre Dame). FB, K, and P lead the way with 100.0%, followed by WR (88.9%), RB (83.3%), DL (81.8%), and LB (80.0%). There's only one position that bucks the trend, and that's QB. Less than half of the 7 QBs drafted by the 49ers since 1994 have come from BCS conferences (42.9%). When you think about the marquee NFL QBs (e.g., Brady, Manning, Big Ben, Rivers, Brees, etc.), one thing pretty much stands out: They came from BCS schools. So it's a wonder as to why the Niners have chosen the most important position on the field to go against their general tendency, and experiment with non-BCS players. I mean, c'mon guys, take fliers with the smaller school Ks and Ps, not the QBs.

Now for the important part: which positions the 49ers have had the most success at selecting in the draft. They've been perfect at FB, K, and P, but you'd hope that's the case given the lack of total picks at these positions, as well as the relative specificity of their position duties. If you're drafting a college FB, it better be because he's a hell of a lead blocker. So, aside from FB, K, and P, any guesses about which position is #1? Well, that would be OL. 9 of the 14 OLs drafted by the Niners since 1994 have become regular starters on the team (64.3%). After OL, the general trend is about 40%, as evidenced by TE (44.4%), LB (40.0%), and DB (38.1%). That means that RB (33.3%), WR (33.3%), DL (31.8%), and QB (28.6%) are where the Niners have had their least success in the draft. What's troublesome here is that, as you'll recall from earlier, DL and WR are 2 of the top 3 positions with respect to the number of total picks made by the 49ers in the Salary Cap Era (22 and 18, respectively). In other words, the Niners seem to be getting quantity, but not quality, at DL and WR.

Regarding Pro Bowlers, the Niners have drafted at least 1 at every position except for K and - you guessed it - QB. The only drafted position that's produced more than 1 Pro Bowler has been LB, with 3.

Finally, in case you were wondering, when you break the 49ers' picks down by unit (i.e., OFF, DEF, and ST), it's a pretty even split between OFF and DEF on all accounts. Overall, they've taken 57 OFF players, 58 DEF players, and 3 ST players. Among the OFF draft picks, 24 were taken on Day 1, 33 were taken on Day 2, 45 were taken from BCS conferences, 26 became starters, and 5 became Pro Bowlers. In an amazing display of symmetry, 25 of the DEF draft picks were taken on Day 1, 36 were taken on Day 2, 46 were taken from BCS conferences, 21 became starters, and 5 became Pro Bowlers.

Bottom line - Here's what I think are the main things to take away from this section:

  • For various reasons, the 49ers have shied away from taking high-profile QBs. They don't take QBs early, and they draft an inordinate amount from non-BCS schools.
  • The 49ers have primarily made their TE, DB, and WR picks on Day 2 of the draft.
  • The 49ers have used about 80% of their picks at each position on players from BCS conferences.
  • The 49ers have been most successful at drafting OL starters. They've been relatively unsuccessful at drafting RB, WR, DL, and QB starters.
  • The 49ers have drafted a Pro Bowler at every major position except for QB. LB draft picks have been most likely to make the Pro Bowl.
  • There's been an even spread between OFF and DEF draft picks in terms of draft days, BCS conferences, starters, and Pro Bowlers.
  • The 49ers rarely draft FBs, Ks and Ps, but they're successful at it when they do.

CONFERENCE ROOM

I've already provided most of the conference breakdown in the previous sections, so this one's going to be pretty short and sweet, focusing primarily on results. But first, I'd like to hone a point that I made earlier.

Here's a table showing the number of BCS and non-BCS players that the 49ers have selected on each day of the draft:

BCS

Day 1

Day 2

Total

Yes

44

50

94

No

5

19

24

Total

49

69

118

 

Although, I noted in the round-by-round section that Day 1 has been dominated by BCS players, this table makes that point even clearer. On Day 1, only about 10% of the Niners' picks have come from BCS schools. On Day 2, however, that rate nearly triples to 27.5%. It's obvious, then, that the 49ers have been much more likely in general to take fliers from smaller conferences when their financial (and fan base) risk is low. As you'll see in Part 2, there's one SF regime in particular that applied this strategy ad absurdum. And we won't find out until next week whether this trend is also true of an NFL franchise like the Patriots that has been far more successful in the Salary Cap Era than the Niners. Again, though, my main question specific to the 49ers remains: Why have they thrown their general BCS vs. non-BCS strategy out the window when it comes to QBs?

Perhaps one reason is that they think they're equally successful at drafting BCS and non-BCS players. Here are 2 tables showing the 49ers' effectiveness since 1994 at drafting starters and Pro Bowlers with respect to BCS and non-BCS players:

Starter

BCS

Non-BCS

Total

Yes

41

9

50

No

53

15

68

Total

94

24

118

 

Pro Bowl

BCS

Non-BCS

Total

Yes

8

3

11

No

86

21

107

Total

94

24

118

 

As you can see, the Niners have been slightly better at drafting NFL starters from BCS conferences (43.6%) than they have from non-BCS conferences (37.5%). Given that non-BCS players are more of the flier types, that's not a result you'd necessarily expect. On the other hand, the Pro Bowl result is one you definitely wouldn't expect: The 49ers are actually better at drafting Pro Bowlers from non-BCS schools (12.5%) than they are from BCS schools (8.5%). Granted, none of the 3 Pro Bowlers from non-BCS schools were QBs, but this does seem to suggest some support for picking non-BCS players in general.

Bottom line - Here's what I think are the main things to take away from this section:

  • The 49ers have been more likely to take non-BCS players on Day 2 of the draft than Day 1.
  • Paradoxically, the 49ers have been better at finding starters from BCS conferences, but have been better at finding Pro Bowlers from non-BCS conferences.

GENERAL ANALYSIS AND CONCLUSION

Let me start this section by going back to something I said at the beginning of the article: There are a couple of 900-pound gorillas in the room. First, the obvious limitation of the information I've presented here is that it covers 4 different 49er draft regimes. The results here produce general trends over the past 15 years, but Policy, Walsh, and Donahue aren't going to be in the war room in 3 weeks. In other words, I fully realize that what we really want to know is how the current McNolan/McSingle regime has approached the draft from a strategic standpoint, and how successful that strategy has been. I'll be getting to that on Friday. In this article, I just wanted to give more of an overall history lesson and do a public service given that you probably don't have the time to find this stuff out yourself.

The second 900-pound gorilla is that I've only given you what are called "descriptive statistics." In other words, all I've provided here are numbers that describe the 49ers draft strategy and results. I haven't said anything yet about whether their strategy and results are good in an NFL context. So, as you can tell, there are many questions left unanswered. For example, "Is their 10% Pro Bowl rate good for an NFL franchise?" or "Is their 80% BCS rate optimal in an NFL context?" For answers to these and other questions, tune in next week for my Patriot comparisons.

With that said, here's how I would describe the 49ers overall draft strategy up to this point in the Salary Cap Era (think of this as an idiot's guide to the 49er war room):

  1. When we're good, let's trade away picks. When we're bad, let's acquire more picks.
  2. Trade up into the 1st round using 2nd-round picks. Trade down into the 6th and 7th rounds using 5th-round picks.
  3. Take players from BCS conferences.
  4. Dominate the neighborhood (i.e., take Pac-10 players).
  5. Wait until Day 2 to draft QBs, RBs, and WRs.
  6. Grab TEs, LBs, and DBs in the late rounds for depth and special teams.
  7. Don't pull an Al Davis (i.e., Ks and Ps are not draft-worthy).

That's it for now. On Friday, I'll break all of this stuff down by regime to identify any differences between Policy, Walsh, Donahue, and McNolan. TO BE CONTINUED...

Poll
How would you grade the 49ers' performance in the draft over the past 15 years?
A
6 votes
B
68 votes
C
253 votes
D
120 votes
F
21 votes
If there was a grade below F, I'd give it to them.
26 votes

494 votes | Poll has closed

1 recs  |  Comment 25 comments |

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Comments

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Wow Fooch

I um….welll…..uh…..Good stuff man. I don’t know how long it took to put together, but it took longer to read than I can spend…

by Arkie49er on Apr 8, 2009 1:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm.

don’t know why this was done by Fooch. My bad. I fail…

by Arkie49er on Apr 8, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

no worries

As a new person this is your first exposure to the awesome analytical force that is Florida Danny. Assuming his schedule remains amenable, you’ll be blown away just about every week by his statistical acumen. Whether you agree with him on his subject-matter or not, it makes for interesting discussion….assuming you’re not buried by the reading.

I have to say that I lucked out in “discovering him.” Who knew discussing a Mike Nolan drinking game would lead to his contributions here!

by Fooch on Apr 8, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whether you agree with him on his subject-matter or not, it makes for interesting discussion

How can you disagree STATS!?…unless you’re some kind of hippie…

by briandean on Apr 9, 2009 1:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

At your service...

It’s true, these posts take more time than I care to admit. It’s all for a good cause though. Namely, providing “can’t find it anywhere else” info and sparking discussion among 49er fans. For future reference, my posts are a little on the long side, and definitely can get mind-numbing after 10 paragraphs of numbers. A lot of people on here read a little bit, then come back to it later, and then read some more, and then come back to it later, etc. Just imagine how much my eyes glaze over when I’m proofreading them 100 times before posting.

by Florida Danny on Apr 8, 2009 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

you do it

so people’s brains explode when they take in all the information, admit it.

by Andrew Davidson on Apr 10, 2009 7:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Draft

I love watching the draft. You never know when your team gets “that guy” who can change a team and make you think of playoffs. It is a holiday in my house.

Cream

by chriscream on Apr 8, 2009 2:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Over the past 15 years, they’ve drafted for the future for sure. It’s just that, rather than drafting for now when they’re good, the Niners instead chose to not draft for the future (i.e., they chose to have fewer picks).

Kind of a confusing statement. Are you saying they didn’t draft for now when they’re winning? Or are you saying they didn’t draft for the future?

For various reasons, the 49ers have shied away from taking high-profile QBs. They don’t take QBs early, and they draft an inordinate amount from non-BCS schools.

I disagree that they’ve “shied” away from taking high profile QBs. They’ve taken Smith and Druckenmiller with first round picks during the time period you are analyzing. That’s two high profile QBs in 14 years, which should be more than plenty, especially considering Young and Garcia were here during a large chunk of that period (meaning the 49ers had a starter already, so no need for a high profile draft pick).

When we’re good, let’s trade away picks. When we’re bad, let’s acquire more picks.

If I’m not mistaken, this is how a lot of “winning” teams operate. When you’re winning, you don’t NEED quantity, you need what you perceive to be quality, so you trade up to get the guy you really want or need. When you suck, generally, you suck at many positions so you need more draft picks to fill those spots.

by sfgfan on Apr 8, 2009 2:43 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

BTW

Welcome back Danny. Don’t always agree with your posts, but they’re good reads (not to mention the ridiculous amount of effort you put into them).

by sfgfan on Apr 8, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

thanks...

…and here are my responses.

1. the answer to your first question is “neither.” i’m saying that it hasn’t been a matter of future vs. now. it’s been a matter of future vs. not drafting at all (i.e., trading away picks). basically, the way i look at it, if you’re a team “drafting for now,” it means you’re either taking players who can step in immediately and start (e.g., that big-legged K or the stud DT) or you’re filling out your bench for depth behind an injury-prone starter. Either way, you’re still “drafting” (i.e., taking players). The Niners have seemed to just take the year off or something, rather than doing the “drafting for now” that i just described. in other words, rather than taking their 7 picks and “drafting for now,” they’ve traded away those picks to simple “not draft at all.” i guess that’s the point i was trying to make. it was definitely a sentence that took a long time to figure out the best wording. could have been better for sure.

2. your point about high-profile QBs is well-taken. i’d just respond that the 49ers weren’t exactly thrilled with having to take Smith in 2005, seeing as how they shopped the pick for the entire month of April, they weren’t on the same page internally as to whether they should go with Smith or Rodgers, and the entire scout intelligencia said it was a ridiculously weak QB class. so in the sense that Smith was basically forced on them, i’d say they were “shying away.” in terms of druckenmiller, i cited that very pick as a reason for why they “shied away” from taking a high-profile QB for the next 8 years. finally, i wouldn’t consider druckenmiller (a grad of the offensively-challenged VTU) and smith (a grad of the non-BCS utes) “high-profile QBs.” i’m thinking more along the lines of vince young, matt leinart, etc. you know, the supposed “can’t miss” guys. but, yeah, i can see how there could be a difference of opinion.

3. i would caution you against prejudging what i think about the quantity vs. quality thing. i only made that conclusion because it’s what the trend is for the 49ers from 94-08. whether or not it’s “good” or what “winning teams do” will be explored when i compare the niners to the patriots. i’ll just say for now to stay tuned.

thanks again for the kudos/re-greetings.

by Florida Danny on Apr 8, 2009 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

quantity vs quality judging

I wasn’t really judging or anything. I was just pointing out that the result is somewhat to be expected. I don’t think you really took any stance on the subject matter, and neither did I.

by sfgfan on Apr 8, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Draft BCS Possibilities:

First of all, Danny you’re freakin animal! LOVED it! And SFGFAN, rather than taking issue with Danny’s post, why don’t we play along for a few days and have some fun with this. We’ve got nothing better to do until Saturday, April 25, 2009 :)

Using Danny’s post as a “guide,” What are some great players in the Pac 10 (or other BCS’ confs) that are DL, DB, LB, or CB’s in this upcoming draft? We can identify some good quality pics based on 49er history. Then we’ll see how that’s ranked against another great drafting club like the Pat’s. Here is what I have so far in order of how I and the NFL web site ranks top picks: (I’m not saying we should draft these guys, just using their names based on Danny’s post and 49er history). Here are the top three defensive players we could choose from a BCS conference for the #1 pic:

1) Aaron Curray – LB – Wake Forest (do you trade up for him? KC wants him)
2) Bryan Orakpo – DE – Texas (Do you trade up for him? Cleveland wants him)
3) Tyson Jackson – DE – LSU (do you down for him?)

What do you guys say?

Steven

by Slong on Apr 8, 2009 3:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

For what it's worth...

.. I wasn’t really taking issue with his post. My first point was just to help clarify a point I was confused by. Second point was to possibly give an explanation of why the 49ers “shied” away from taking a “high profile” QB. Last point was kind of the same, just trying to provide a possible reason why the result was the way it was.

Danny and I have disagreed in the past, but I’ve never disagreed with him just to disagree with him or anything like that. We’ve managed to have some decent discussions, even if our views are slightly different (and we understand that).

As for your suggestions/open-discussion: I don’t think a team should trade up for an OLB. They do make huge impacts from time to time, but that potential isn’t exactly worth trading away a second potential starter for. Also, I believe Tyson Jackson fits in at 3-4 DE, if he were with the 49ers. That’s not a very big pass rushing position, and the 49ers definitely don’t treat as such. Considering they’ve recently invested a huge contract on a 3-4 DE (Smith) as well as a first rounder (Balmer), it’s unlikely they’d go ahead and do it again.

Lastly, two players that may be available at #10 that are from BCS schools are Michael Crabtree and Everette Brown. I would definitely be interested in those two players if they fell that far, and I’m sure the 49ers will be too.

by sfgfan on Apr 8, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well done

you always put tons into your posts.

Let me preface these two comments by saying that there are about 100+ positive comments I could be making but am not for times sake, so don’t think I’m just hating.

1) yes he “started” but I don’t think our drafting of K’s was perfect, Jeff Chandler sucked, esp for a 4th rounder.

2) I think it would be important to note that perhaps (actually, almost surely) it was because we are so bad at picking WRs and DL that we have taken so many of them. An NFL team carries more people at those positions than most (besides OL and DB) too. I think the post made it out like we had just taken a bunch of those guys and then they sort of all turned out bad at once, but maybe that’s just me. Clearly WRs are the hardest to evaluate in the draft, except perhaps QBs (though I think that’s often more of the case that there just aren’t as many top flight QBs).

by foosball4949 on Apr 8, 2009 3:43 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah...

…i was actually going to make that point in this piece, but i wanted to wait until the comparisons began before i made it. there’s definitely a relationship between the niners sucking at picking WRs and DLs, and their affinity for drafting so many of them. it’s kind of a “throw all the sh*t at the wall and see what sticks” strategy.

by Florida Danny on Apr 8, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kind of parallel to that...

A thought that kind of parallels the “because they suck…” thought, I’m not entirely sure if a draftee being a “starter” can be a measure of success, especially on the 49ers squads of recent memory. I know you’re not necessarily making that correlation (at least not yet), but I figured it was worth mentioning.

Basically, because the 49ers have pretty much sucked so much in various places, players drafted got pushed into starting roles they may not have earned elsewhere. I know this wasn’t always the case (and I’m not even sure how often of an occurrence it is), but it’s definitely worth noting.

by sfgfan on Apr 8, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's definitely a point i was anticipating (and goingto bring up in later posts)

and it’s a good one. starting for the niners is a little easier than starting for the patriots.

by Florida Danny on Apr 8, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A not-so-stunning observation and correlation

The 49ers secondary has been abysmal for years and we see that they have taken 2/3 of their DB’s in the second day of the draft.

I’m sure if you compared this to winning franchises (Steelers, Ravens, Patriots, Eagles, etc) that you would see the complete opposite.

You can’t put mediocre talent on an island against top talent one-on-one and expect good results.

Rays in '08.... Desmond Jennings - the breakout continues.....

by youALREADYknow on Apr 8, 2009 5:51 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If I'm not mistaken...

… the Steelers and Patriots have have virtual nobodies starting at CB on their “winning” squads a lot. Of course, I could very well be mistaken.

My mind is kind of screwy right now, but if you could help me with a list of Steelers and Patriots DBs who are (or have been) good players, and I’ll help figure out where they were drafted. No biggy either way, as I’m sure Danny will touch on this point somewhere in his upcoming posts.

by sfgfan on Apr 10, 2009 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here are the results.

I’d also like to note I said secondary and not just cornerback, not that it makes much of a difference in this study.

Steelers:
2006: CB Anthony Smith (3rd rd)
2005: CB Bryant McFadden (2nd rd)
2004: CB Ricardo Colclough (2nd rd)
2003: S Troy Polamalu (1st rd)
2002: S Chris Hope (3rd rd)
2000: CB Hank Poteat (3rd rd)
Other notables: CB Chad Scott (1st-1997)

Patriots:
2008: CB Terrence Wheatley (2nd rd)
2007: S Brandon Meriweather (1st rd)
2005: CB Ellis Hobbs (3rd rd)
2003: S Eugene Wilson (2nd rd)
2001: CB Brock Williams (3rd rd)
Other notables: S Tebucky Jones (1st-1998), S Lawyer Milloy (2nd-1996), CB Ty Law (1st-1995),

Ravens:
2008: S Tom Zbikowski (3rd rd)
2006: CB David Pittman (3rd rd)
2002: S Ed Reed (1st rd)
2001: CB Gary Baxter (2nd rd)
Other notables: CB Chris McAlister (1st-1999), CB Duane Starks (1st-1998), S Kim Herring (2nd-1997)

49ers:
2008: S Reggie Smith (3rd rd)
2004: CB Shawntae Spencer (2nd rd)
2002: CB Mike Rumph (1st rd)
2000: CB Ahmed Plummer (1st rd)
2000: CB Jason Webster (2nd rd)
Other notables: CB R.W. McQuarters (1st-1998)

Now we’ll take the players who played long enough with their draft teams and made a positive impact on the field since the turn of the decade.

Steelers: CB Bryant McFadden (2nd), S Troy Polamalu (1st), S Chris Hope (3rd)
Patriots: S Brandon Meriweather (1st), CB Ellis Hobbs (2nd), CB Eugene Wilson (2nd)
Ravens: S Ed Reed (1st), CB Gary Baxter (2nd)
49ers: CB Shawntae Spencer (2nd), CB Ahmed Plummer (1st), CB Jason Webster (2nd)

Two of the three impact players in the secondary for the Niners were drafted 9 years ago and neither was truly a great cornerback for any sustained period. Plummer is no longer in the league and Webster has bounced around for the past few years after a mediocre career with the Niners. Shawntae Spencer started for most of three seasons before the club realized he wasn’t a legit starting CB in the league.

When you think of the championship teams for each of the above organizations, the players listed are the key players for those teams. The 49ers list is pathetic in comparison and even more concerning is that they have only drafted one player in the secondary in the first two rounds since 2003. This team has ranked in the bottom half of pass defense for the past decade and the lack of effort in the draft is the main reason.

Rays in '08.... Desmond Jennings - the breakout continues.....

by youALREADYknow on Apr 11, 2009 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

ding

best post in the history of blogs. looking forward to the rest of the series.

by JoeO on Apr 8, 2009 9:15 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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