2009 Roster Projections: Defensive Line
by Fooch on May 7, 2009 8:00 AM PDT
in Roster Projections
24 comments
When I was first thinking of a post for this morning I was considering rolling out my first 49ers 53-man roster projection of the offseason. However, I came up with a better idea that would provide me many more future posts. We know there are certain locks for the roster, we're pretty sure of the guys with virtually no chance, and then there are the bubble folks. I go with "virtually no chance" rather than just "no chance" because obviously anything can happen along the way.
So, I thought we'd take a look position by position at the locks, bubble watch and no chance guys. This will be for the 53-man roster, but I'll probably make some mentions of the practice squad as well. I won't go into a ton of details on each player, but rather give my thoughts more on the bubble guys, with some kind of poll to go along with it. Also, I realize the roster can change, but we're just taking it as it stands on this particular day.
We start with the defensive line. In the 3-4, the defensive line is primarily in place to occupy bodies and open holes for the linebackers to make plays. The 49ers have some solid options along the line, and will be hoping for some more consistency from anybody not named Justin Smith.
Locks
Justin Smith, Isaac Sopoaga, Kentwan Balmer, Aubrayo Franklin, Demetric Evans
Virtually No Chance
Khalif Mitchell, Pannel Egboh
Bubble
Ray McDonald, Ricky Jean-Francois
I'd imagine the one that will draw the most contention is Ray McDonald. I'm pretty sure he'll make the 53-man, but his reconstructive knee surgery moves him temporarily to the bubble watch. One thing that does have me curious is the potential roster battle between McDonald and Ricky Jean-Francois. Last season, I believe the 49ers carried 6 defensive linemen most of the season. By my count here, we have 5 locks. If RJF has a solid camp, do they cut McDonald loose? I like McDonald's pass rushing skills, but does RJF have more overall upside potentially?
Looking at the "virtually no chance guys," I'm intrigued by both rookies. Egboh is a a little light for DE work, but too big for OLB work. So, he'll either have to bulk up or drop a few. As for Mitchell, I'm really intrigued by a defensive lineman who's 6-5, 318 lbs. That's a monster of a man. I'd say one of these two ends up on the practice squad, but I'll hold off predictions until we know what position Egboh will be playing.
How do you see the defensive line spots playing out?
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McDonald vs Jean-Francois
McDonald isn’t expected to be ready until the end of training camp or maybe even into the regular season. Call me crazy, but it’s VERY possible that the team IR’s him like they’ve done with Jay Moore each of the past two years, freeing up space for RJF.
In any case, I think the team will carry six linemen again. If the team is willing to wait for McDonald, he will definitely get a spot on the 53-man, as he, coupled with Jason Smith, provide a pass rush push up the middle (playing tackles on the four man line) on passing downs. The 49ers can’t really say the same for anyone else on the defensive line. They like McDonald too much to cut him loose.
by sfgfan on May 7, 2009 9:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
McDonald makes it
…. RJF gets practice squaded…. waiting for Franklin’s last year…. i would also like to see mitchell get squaded just based off his size….
Can anyone break down how other teams being able to sign players off your practice squad works?
by Qbgetter13 on May 7, 2009 9:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Practice squad signings
I think that if a team wishes to sign a player off another team’s practice squad, they’re free to do so as long as said player remains on the 53-man roster. It also seems to me that the team who holds the rights to the player has the ability to promote the player to their own 53-man roster before another team can sign him (which is what I think happened with Clayton at the end of last season, because he was promoted but hardly saw playing time).
Of course, I could always be wrong, so if I am, feel free to correct me.
by sfgfan on May 7, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
practice squad
I actually don’t think the original team gets a first right to promote him, unless that player wants to give his team that opportunity. The CBA doesn’t specifically mention the right to promote first. That’s more like restricted free agency where a player can sign an offer sheet with another team and his original team has the right of first refusal.
by Fooch on May 7, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah.
Maybe it is the players’ choice, as that would make sense, too. Players don’t necessarily WANT to uproot themselves and pick up a new playbook, so they can offer their current team to keep them on at league minimum or whatever. I could definitely see that kind of scenario playing out, especially if the team trying to sign you is only signing you to be a third string player.
by sfgfan on May 7, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How it really works
Got this off of Hardknocks. After the final preseason cut to the 53 man roster teams will try to sign their practice players the next day. The only way a team really loses a potential practice squad player is if another team offers the player a spot on their 53 man roster. Teams do take that into account with the final cut. If a young and developing player has been impressive in preseason they will add him to the roster to prevent the loss in free agency.
by bignerd on May 7, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
CBA
Here’s what the CBA says about Practice squad players signing with other teams:
Section 2. Signing With Other Clubs:
(a) Any player under contract to a Club as a practice squad player shall be completely free to negotiate
and sign a Player Contract with any Club at any time during the League Year, to serve as a player on any
Club’s Active or Inactive List, and any Club is completely free to negotiate and sign such a Player Contract with such player, without penalty or restriction, including, but not limited to, Draft Choice Compensation between Clubs or First Refusal Rights of any kind, or any signing period, except that such player shall not be permitted to sign a Player Contract with another Club to serve as a practice squad player while under contract as a practice squad player.
(b) Notwithstanding Subsection (a) above, a practice squad player may not sign an NFL Player Contract with his Club’s next opponent later than 4:00 p.m., New York time, on the sixth day preceding the game
(except in bye weeks, when the prohibition commences on the tenth day preceding the game).
by Fooch on May 7, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh.
Didn’t know about (b). That’s an interesting restriction.
by sfgfan on May 7, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Love the Pa Zing
(b) def makes since so you don’t go give the other team the game plan
thats very interesting overall, thanks FOOCH. So I guess the only thing you can’t do is up and switch practice squads!
by 49ers4lyfe on May 7, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it came down to the wire.......
…..because they’re both on the bubble I would cut/IR McDonald and keep RJF. Why because McD’s injury will have him missing all the training camps and preperation for the season while RJF will be a part of all that. We can’t afford to deal with someone who will just be getting back RIGHT as the season starts. Also RJF is young and has a baddass attitude which I love. My only concern with him is will his attitude conflict with TEAM unity and the locker room atmosphere? Plus by the time McD is healed we’ll know whether RJF is the real thing but as a UDFA we got damn near nothin to lose!
by 49ers4lyfe on May 7, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clear cut
I think if you look back over the past couple of months at what Singletary, Mcloughan, and Manusky have been saying, the picture clears up significantly.
First, though they have expressed concern about McDonald’s injury, both Coach and McGM have stated that McDonald is on track in his rehab to be ready by the start of training camp. If you take them at their word (and I do, especially coach Sing), you have to assume McDonald will be in camp.
Second, in Manusky’s press conference during mini-camp, he talked about how DL is the toughest position to play as a rookie, in reference to how little Kentwan Balmer played last year. I think if you extend that reasoning to apply to RJF, he has to be considered an extreme long shot to make the 53 from day 1. Add to that the comments Singletary and McGM made in reference to RJF being raw and not having played very much after having drafted him and I think it becomes pretty clear that they view him as a raw physical specimen with good upside who could be solid PS candidate.
It’s pretty clear that if Ray McDonald is healthy, he will be in the rotation at end on 1st and 2nd downs and tackle on 3rd, while RJF seems destined for the practice squad, barring an injury to the others or continued injury to Ray McD.
I want winners!!
by loudiamond on May 7, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
FfOuOcCkH
If you had a lineup of 9 Jack Custs who hit(Cust career average) .239 AVG, .382 OBP, and .475 SLG, then your team would score 6.12 runs per game-totalling to 991runs a season.The 08 rangers lead the majors in runs score with 901.
by 9Custs on May 7, 2009 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Fooch
I love this idea of going position by position figuring out the 53-man roster.
With all the versatility from our d-linemen it doesn’t seem like we’d need more than 6 guys. Balmer and Sopoaga can both play end or tackle, and the coaches have talked about a lot of the guys being interchangeable.
RJF for some reason seems like he has a ton of upside. He has good size and is a feisty dude. He looks like he’ll be able to both penetrate and stop the run. He could play end or tackle given his big frame. I’ve never been a big McDonald fan; if he doesn’t start and has limited upside wouldn’t RJF be the better option? Tough call, especially considering training camp won’t allow the two to compete given the injury.
by Neon on May 7, 2009 10:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Limited upside
I don’t think the team thinks McDonald has limited upside. If I’m not mistaken (which I could be), the team not too long ago thought that McDonald may be the team’s best pure pass-rusher. Considering they haven’t added any pass rushers, thus not providing him any new competition, he’s got to still be pretty high in their eyes (maybe Haralson has passed him?).
by sfgfan on May 7, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
pass rushing
Haralson notwithstanding, I do think Ray McDonald is the best pure pass rusher on the team. The problem is that he seems to lack some discipline as far as going offsides. He seems perfectly suited to be a defensive end when they go to the 4 down linemen nickel defense. Not sure how much he’d contribute in the normal 3-4 though as a defensive end.
by Fooch on May 7, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
with Fooch on this one. The book on McDonald is that he is very quick off the snap (sometimes too quick!) and has some good pass rush ability for a 3-4 end. His best case scenario if healthy would be to become a kind of Trevor Pryce, but he obviously has a long way to go before that happens. I thought he was playing 3-technique under tackle on 3rd downs but could be mistaken. In any case, I see him having some impact in a rotation and on 3rd down and contributing a little more as a 3-4 end than Fooch does. Plus, he is a great character guy with excellent technique.
I want winners!!
by loudiamond on May 7, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Third down.
I seem to recall he played inside a lot last season on third downs next to Justin Smith. I could be wrong, though.
by sfgfan on May 7, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
RJF is the wild card on the DL.
Frankly, I see him as a good NT prospect who can also play 5-technique. He has the long arms, big hands, and overpowering natural strength to control the center and plug the middle. He only has short-area quickness and probably can’t pursue, but in four man sets he could be formidable collapsing the pocket. So I don’t see him as a replacement for Ray McDonald, who can penetrate and pursue but isn’t much of a 2-gapper, imho. I know they had Khalif Mitchell playing NT last weekend, but I see RJF as a better fit inside due to his strength and better leverage.
Pannel Egboh is the guy I see as McDonald’s replacement/backup. He needs to bulk up about 15lbs to get to 290, but he looks like a good fit at RDE in 3-man sets and on the end in 4-man sets. The big question with him is whether he has that quick first step that makes McDonald a good pass rusher.
We’ll see what the coaches have in mind as the preseason advances, but there is one glaring hole in the DL that remains unaddressed, and that’s at NT – neither Franklin nor Sopoaga are good 2-gappers who can hold the point against the run. Maybe RJF is the answer there, maybe not, but I don’t really see Balmer as a stud NT, either.
by MontanaPass on May 7, 2009 12:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I like this Fooch keep it up
I fully expect McDonald to start the season on the PUP and then maybe transitioning to IR. Someone mentioned this before me but this was the first thought I had as well. That’s why I voted for both. I also agree with whomever said that McDonald looks a little lost in the 3-4, but he has good pass-rushing skills on passing downs. However, 3-4 linebackers are supposed to be able to put that hand on the ground and rush on third down so keeping a roster spot for someone who doesn’t perform all that well on the DL in the 3-4 but isn’t a linebacker might not bode well for RM to last too much longer.
RJF will make the 53, Egboh might as well, I really do think he has potential but I’m betting on him winding up on the practice squad.
Mitchell will be lucky to get a spot on the Practice squad but that could very well happen, he’s a physical specimen and we all know how much our coaching staff likes these.
by foosball4949 on May 7, 2009 1:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Simply put,
we’ll have fewer bodies in the secondary this year so we can afford to keep both. No more of that hybrid bullshit so we wont need 11 defensive backs or however many we had.
by passionforPERPS on May 8, 2009 3:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m cool with 7 DL guys – I like it
"Those boos really motivate me to make something happen." - Bonds
by Persiflage on May 9, 2009 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta keep seven
On my depth chart I’m keeping 7. Smith & JeanFrancois @ RDE, Evans & Balmer @ LDE and Franklin, Soap and Mitchell @ NT/DT. Ray to IR and hopefully, Egboh to practice squad. The rotation needs 7 because of injury & potential of JF and Mitchell. This group is so much better that last year.
by 49ersNH on May 9, 2009 7:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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