Battle of the Beasts: VD vs. Bear

via www.49ers.com
If you are a casual reader of this site, you know I have some kind of unhealthy obsession with our new rookie TE: Bear Pascoe. I believe he is the kind of wrinkle that can transform this team into a legitimate threat in the Red Zone; we have so many short yardage weapons. He has a great work ethic, has shown flashes of greatnessin mini-camps and OTAs, and has the body a TE should have in the NFL today. He was brought in to block (I think) but has the talent to be a good receiving option, especially in short yardage situations. However, I can't forget/overlook the most recent beast the San-Franchise has drafted at the TE position - the one and only Vernon Davis.

via allthatsfab.com
VD has been our man at the TE position, mostly because of fantastic plays in college and because he is an athletic FREAK - Strength, Size, and to quote his player page here at SB Nation,
Runs like the wind and appears to be sculpted out of marble.
During games we see flashes of this greatness (and these flashes have been showing up more and more often as the seasons go by); but we also get the VD from time to time that misses catches, seems afraid to get hit, grows alligator arms, etc. Right now, I see VD as a Tyrannosaurus Rex; incredible strength, massive body, tiny tiny arms, distracted by bright lights.
The situation that has come to mind, at least in my mind, is the possibility of a full-on TE competition. We have our QB competition in the works (see the Golden Nuggets below), but I see this one as just as exciting. Bear has the talent, the drive, the body and the fan following (however important/unimportant that is) to make a quick, positive impact on the team. However, he is a rookie, and the percentage of rookie players that make an immediate positiveimpact on the team is minuscule, at best.
VD has the skill and strength to make himself an elite TE in this league (see: VD chasing down defenders after a Shaun Hill interception - don't make me remember the specific game; I can't), but his history of time-to-time unclutchness (is that a word?) has held him back from the upper level of TE talent. We can most likely expect one or both of these TE's to excel this season because of Jimmy Raye-of-sunshine's history of developing TE talent (see: Tony Gonzalez - possibly the best TE to ever play the game), but if it was going to be one, which one?
So the question I pose to you Nation: This season, who will have a bigger positive impact on the team; Bear Pascoe or Vernon Davis?
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To note: Full Dislosure
I voted for VD. I believe he will be in the offense from week 1, while Bear might not get into semi-regular usage until week 7 (after the bye week)…
Blind devotion.
by ProfessorBigelow on Jun 18, 2009 8:27 AM PDT reply actions
Love the Raye-Gonzalez connection
Did you read FloridaDanny’s article on the 2008 offense?
That article definitively debunked the notion that Davis can’t catch (and I quote: "For all the crap VD takes about his stone hands, he actually had a better catch rate than every WR except for Hill"). The VD as TRex notion is funny but (hopefully) not accurate (this coming season).
Morgan breaks through in 2009!
I'm not saying he can't catch
I’m just saying there were more than a few occasions last season when he could have reached out a bit and easily caught the balls. If the ball hits him on the hands, I’m confident in his ability to catch the ball (not stone hands), but he has to get his hands to the ball first.
Blind devotion.
by ProfessorBigelow on Jun 18, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
He is a tightend!
They are not known to reach out and make snags like WR’s. In Davis’ defense, quite a few of those over the head passes were cut for WR’s. Yea yea he’s a number 1 pick blah blah and ripped like a monster. Given he has had some easy drops(So did Jerry Rice in his first couple of years and in the 89 SB where he won the MVP aswell as TO who will be a Hall of Famer when it’s over). But as for the ones he could’ve reached for…. garbage. You can get away with over throwing WR’s alot more than TE’s and I don’t care what round they go in. Antonio Gates and Jason Witten are top TE’s in the NFL but you’re not going to see them making these big stretched out catches on bombs. They are big TE’s.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
Any body rember Brent Jones...
His carrer ended way to short for going up top in the middle and getting creamed and making the first down and them some. A greate TE can reach out and do what needs to be done…
by WC-Ninerhead on Jun 20, 2009 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions
That says more about the WRs than it does Davis.
If I recall correctly, Davis was one of the top 5 in drops for all tight ends.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jun 18, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I couldnt remember exactly when it happened/who did it
But thanks… Memory aint what it used to be
Blind devotion.
by ProfessorBigelow on Jun 18, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
It was the Seattle game.
Davis chased him all the way down the field and dragged him down into the endzone. He’s a hustler.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
JTO before his benching, threw an interception on 4th down to Seattle's Josh Wilson, who took it some 70 odd yards the other way.
Davis was in pursuit and reached him just as he crossed the endzone.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jun 18, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
THATS IT - Thank you Fearless Frog
As much as it pains me to put this up… Here is the video of VD chasing down Josh Wilson
Blind devotion.
by ProfessorBigelow on Jun 18, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions
good find
Wilson scored anyways, but I’ll take the hustle every day of the week.
by David Fucillo on Jun 18, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions
If you really voted for Bear
Then you must not want the Niners to do good this season because if Bear has a more positive impact on the Niners then Vernon this year we are screwed point blank.
Voted for VD, Excited about the Bear
Yeah, I voted for VD because he is the guy with experience AND he is really believing in Sing’s vision for the team. Bear is going to be fantastic in this position and he will develop well this season in Jimmy’s system. Probably what will happen is that VD will be traded next year for a draft pick and a tackle, Bear will take over the spot and the niners will be better for it.
I absolutely love Bear!
The fact that I followed him throughout his whole college career may make me a little more biased, but just because I have a biased doesnt mean its not true. It means that I saw his playmaking ability for 3 years already, and I know how much of a beast he is.
Now granted, I will say that it will take some time for him to catch up to the speed of the pro’s, but man can this guy catch and run! He will be a legitimately awesome TE for us when his time arrises to shine.
The difference between these guys is the mindset and heart they have. Bear has the right mindset, and a great heart (I met the guy, he’s awesome).
But impact wise? This season VD’s most likely going to have much more of a positive impact, just by default. But next year? We well have to see about that.
So, I’m one of those Bear Pascoe fans, but I think because he’s a rookie, and is technically 3rd on the depth chart, he won’t see too much playing time. I think he’ll move to 2nd on the chart, but if he’s not seeing regular snaps, then he won’t really have a change to be a huge impact. If Vernon Davis struggles, I think the 49ers might try to use Bear as one of the main Red Zone weapon, but that probably won’t happen until mid-season… unless he REALLY impresses during the preseason, where I think he’ll get a lot of playing time.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m hoping for the Niners sake that Vernon does start producing like we had hoped. I’m just glad that my favorite college player (from last year) actually became a Niner. The last Fresno State guy I wanted the Niners to draft was Berrian. He went to the Bears at pick #15 in the 3rd round. The Niners picked right before that at #14 and took a different WR named Derrick Hamilton, whom has never caught an NFL pass.
and Walker?????
I really like VD and Bear (I think he will be a very good player), but I also believe Walker is a very good TE, he is fasta and has great catching skills. Therefore, I dont see why he doesnt gets the love he deserves and why he is not considered by many people as the legit second TE. any thoughts????
Walker
I’m posting our official roster projection post on tight ends next week and we’ll certainly include Walker in the discussion. Walker is the #2 tight end on this team at this point. This is more about the Professor’s amazing obsession with Bear….
by David Fucillo on Jun 18, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Amazing, maybe...
Unhealthy? Closer…
Nostradamus like? We’ll see…
Blind devotion.
by ProfessorBigelow on Jun 18, 2009 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Cuz he’s not a great blocker. When he comes in, guys on the defense know that he’s in to try and go out for a pass. I would like the idea of making him a WR more than making Vernon into one. I like Vernon, and I think we have to get the ball in his hands, but if he can’t run the routes well enough, then maybe he should drop back for a few plays and take some handoffs or dump passes as a fullback? <————I’ve been trying to get that idea started for awhile, but no one really agrees with me…
They should definitely do more screens this year with Crabtree and Davis. VD runs stupid fast for a TE his size so give him the ball early and let him go at the defense. Crabtree might not have DHB speed but I’ve seen him make just one cut off a screen pass at Texas Tech and he was off to the races.
Mo'ped Money, Mo'ped Problems
Tony Gonzales was good before Jimmy Raye came along.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
I'd almost be willing to argue that last season was Tony's best
All things considered.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Jun 18, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
i tried to read the article
but I couldn’t get past that VD picture. Is that from the Bible?
"I'll be honest with you, I love his music, I do, I'm a Michael Bolton fan. For my money, I don't know if it gets any better than when he sings "When a Man Loves a Woman"
and in his 4th season, VD broke through the wall, Niners fan rejoiced and all was well in the kingdom. Singletary 3:42
"I'll be honest with you, I love his music, I do, I'm a Michael Bolton fan. For my money, I don't know if it gets any better than when he sings "When a Man Loves a Woman"
by 49erLou on Jun 18, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Hahaha.
Good stuff.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jun 18, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
I like the Bear, too, but the TE position takes time to learn.
As others have pointed out when the subject of VD comes up, the TE position involves both blocking assignments and route running. And he needs to know what the other players will be doing, also. For a rookie to come in and master all aspects of the position during his first training camp would be miraculous. So I don’t expect Bear to have a greater impact than VD, who is already a great blocker and has the potential to also be a great receiver. He’ll get his chance shine as a receiver this year with Raye’s offense. But if VD doesn’t lose the alligator arms and show some hands and better route running, I suspect he’ll eventually be cut or traded (he makes too much $$ to be just a good blocker) and Bear will get his shot next year.
I think Bear
Will have a good rookie season. VD hopefully will have a better one than Bear. I think Bear is our TE of the future. I think VD will be traded in the next season or two. I watched Bear’s home college games live, and he is a good tight end. VD probably is a bust #6 pick overall. I love the guy, bought his jersey, but I just think he is not worth the pick spent on him. I hope my faith can be restored in VD, but if he has another 500 yd. 3-5 TD season (yawn) I’m over it. Oh…and I know he hasn’t been used right yet, but if he was as awesome as everyone thought he would be, that wouldn’t have been an issue. His problem is not ability, it is mental. The good news is if anyone can get the most out of him, you’d think it was Jimmy Raye.
49ers and TOOL live, my personal Heaven!!!
Can't agree he isn't worth the pick
He hasn’t had the OC he needed nor the QB. I hear plenty of excuses for A Smith, that he never had a line or an OC. Well that’s gonna be the same for the whole offense, development and statistics.
M. S. #50
How relevant are OC's in tight end development?
It’s not like Davis has been ignored despite him producing every time he touches the ball due to scheme or something like that. He just hasn’t looked very good at all as a receiver.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jun 18, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
OCs
Matter to some extent. It’s kind of weak to continually bring up Martz (or O’Sullivan) as “what not to do” on offense, but Martz kept Davis in to block, in my opinion, A LOT more than he should have. Instead of compromising and calling for shorter QB drops and quicker throws to RB/TE, he keeps the seven-step drop and keeps Davis in to block.
Well, that is the nature of Martz's offense.
If he actually tried to do a more traditional approach like the one you mentioned…well, he just wouldn’t be Martz anymore. Davis was used as a blocker a lot, but it could be argued he’s one of the best blockers on the entire team and thus made up for inadequacies from the offensive line.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jun 19, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
No excuses for Alex either
I’ve moved on from him as well
49ers and TOOL live, my personal Heaven!!!
A bust?
VD is atleast a league average TE. Although you’d hope for more of an impact player from a #6 selection he is still a legit NFL starter. A bust to me is say someone like Charles Rogers, a guy who was never even a decent starter. VD might have been a poor selection but I think the bust label might be a little harsh.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Jun 18, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Anything
short of outstanding is a bust from a #6 overall pick. I don’t deny he is average. Bear could be average. The difference #6 overall compared to 6th round. It was a lousy pick thus far.
49ers and TOOL live, my personal Heaven!!!
Then I guess most top 6 picks are busts
If that’s the world you live in so be it.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Jun 19, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Can't vote for the T-Rex?
TE might not be his natural position but I bet he would make one hell of an OLB.
T-Rex could be Coach Sing
If VD gets butt hurt again like last year… In which case Bear may get more time than he thinks..I don’t think that will happen though. From all I have heard VD seems to be happy with his role.
by WC-Ninerhead on Jun 18, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Lets hope VD has a breakout year ! !
Interesting conversation about moving VD’s position. If he liked contact , I could see him at OLB , good call. He could probably play SS if he had some coverage skills. WR was mentioned, he doesn’t have the hands you want at WR. FB he could shine at. I like the idea of him leading the blocking out of the backfield. I hope I see both VD and Walker playing some FB this training came. as well as a good portion of 2 TE sets. I think having a TE on both sides of the line would, help our QB’s relax more. On a very high percentage of our sacks given up, the pressue came from outside. How much do you guys, think we will see the 2 TE sets ??
My mind is boggled at the thought that you like the idea of drafting a player #6 overall only to have him become a FB.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jun 18, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
eh...Tony G was a great TE before and after Jimmy Raye
could it be Tony G made Jimmy Raye and not vice versa?
Bear Pascoe for president.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
I'll check that later but I believe you.
However, Jimmy Raye has led some pretty stagnant offenses before.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jun 18, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Coincidence, maybe?
Just because he happened to produce better when Raye was “calling the shots,” it does not mean Raye was a direct cause or influence on said production.
I think Bear could have a more positive impact in the redzone.
I don’t see what would be wrong with Bear lined up at TE and Davis split wide or in the slot. So we’d still be able to run or pass. Davis can be a beast in the redzone and it’s about time we get something in return out of that huge contract!!
M. S. #50
Just saw Barrows has Walker second in his depth chart ...
… ahead of Pascoe. Is it definite that they will carry three TEs on the roster?
They've carried...
… three TEs on the roster for at least the last four years, I think.
If Bajema could hold down a roster spot I’ve got to think Pascoe can too.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Jun 18, 2009 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Delanie Walker is #2 on the depth chart
But as noted above, he is a WR convert – he can’t be the dual TE threat that the premier NFL TEs need to be: Blocking and Receiving. Its just a gut feeling, but I think Bear can one day be a #1 TE, while Delanie is a backup at best. A high quality back up, possibly, but a backup nonetheless.
Fooch’s TE breakdown comes next week, so you can look forward to discussing the position as a whole there. My goal here was to analyze the promise of Bear vs. the potential of VD.
Blind devotion.
by ProfessorBigelow on Jun 18, 2009 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
the promise
I hope is a future where both Bear and Vernon are equal contributors. Since they both can block, and both are a threat in the passing game(VD in YAC, and Bear as a solid target), it would seem to make it very easy to disguise plays and keep the offense very balanced.
the te's
Davis is a bust period, bear will be the better te in time, may not this year but in time I believe he will be.
by bmcrae83@yahoo.com on Jun 18, 2009 5:30 PM PDT reply actions
Too early to call Davis a BUST !
Sometimes players don’t progress as quickly as we all want and some are ready to throw the bust label already, Amazing. “Fearless Frog”. It shouldn’t be that surprising that someone suggested VD playing some snaps at the FB , during TRAINING CAMP. I’d really like to see all 3 TE’s on the field together. Pascoe and Davis on opposite sides of the line and Walker as a single back, checking for rushers then finding a soft spot in the zone. That’s what PRESEASON is for , trying new wrinkles, to see what is effective with what players. I never thought " I’D RATHER HAVE VD PLAYING FULLBACK". Lets mix it up during Preseason, I’d rather see VD running 40 yards downfield and hauling in a deep pass. So far he hasn’t shown that he can do that with regularity. If not he might have to settle for going over the middle ALOT.
VD might understand
This is his time to show what he has. Knowing that Sing and the Bear are right behind him will motivate him to be his best. If not, It’s the bench or trade bait.
What about Walker
Walker seems to be our best short yardage and end zone threat the last few years at TE shouldn’t he be used more?

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