Watch Fooch get taken behind the woodshed once again
The folks at Field Gulls (our Seahawks blog) have taken exception to my rankings from day 1. Apparently I have no credibility. Good times. If you like seeing your fearless leader get slapped around a little, head on over...but do play nice.
almost 3 years ago
David Fucillo
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Fooch
I’ll never give a crap about what Seahawks fans have to say.
Its hard enough trying to give a crap about what fellow Niners fans have to say.
by Andrew Davidson on Jun 27, 2009 2:27 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Well, you are being a bit ridiculous.
=x
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
I'd agree.
Definitely writing from an optimistic “if everything goes right, and potential is fulfilled” standpoint, which is fine and all (lord knows that kind of attitude it has helped make the last 6 or so years bearable), but sticks out like a sore thumb when contrasted with a more reasonable (from a 3rd party perspective), critical view that the Seahawks guy is giving.
...And you can you blame them?
You’re acting as if you have a legit case to be indignant. The 49ers offense has consistently been one of the worst for most of the decade, had all the explosiveness of a noble gas mixture recently, and you’re handing out B grades like candy despite little to no personnel upgrades.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
Your use of the past tense is pretty telling.
But really, I think people are really overthinking the B grade. If you think of a C as replacement value, which most people would (as it is kind of considered – hard-quote – “average”) you have to understand that a team made up completely of replacement players would not finish in the middle of the league. They’d be at the bottom. Replacement players are glorified backups. I wouldn’t say the 49ers were awesome last year, but they were even to critics, not at the bottom of the league. So it’s fair to say that they should have plenty of grades higher than a C.
A B isn’t that great. It can be anything between pretty okay and very good. I think our guards are pretty okay. So a B is fair.
Anyway, it’s all kind of stupid to argue about anyway. Everybody has a different scale, and everybody is going to inflate their own team’s grades and depress their opponent’s grades.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 27, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Whoops, a stray comma screwed up this sentence:
“I wouldn’t say the 49ers were awesome last year, but they were even to critics, not at the bottom of the league.”
That should say: “I wouldn’t say the 49ers were awesome last year, but they were not at the bottom of the league.” Just ignore the critics part, as I failed to delete it during a cursory edit.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 27, 2009 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Average does not equal replacement level
Average is much better than replacement value. Replacement value would best be represented by an “F”, because, by nature, that player could be replaced by an existing free agent and is therefore the worst or nearly the worst player at their position in the NFL.
Yeah. I think my main point stands though. The whole grading thing is fairly subjective and people really overestimate how small the B range actually tends to be.
And even that depends on the scale used. Which is, again, purely subjective.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 27, 2009 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions
And I’m not saying this to dismiss your point. You’re right about replacement players. I’m just saying it to reiterate my main point.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 27, 2009 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions
If it's "purely subjective" then it's meaningless.
But it isn’t. We have a very good idea of what “B” means. It means “above average” and there’s no way San Francisco’s quarterbacks are above average.
That's a lot A's to be handing out
In your proposed scheme do guys ranked 11th to 20th deserve a B and the guys ranked 21st to 30th a C? Who gets a D or an F? The last two teams in the league.
John Morgan is pretty conservative in his grades and grades on a curve where the 5 grades are roughly evenly distributed (about 6 teams per letter grade). This is obviously different from some of the other grading systems used by other NFC West bloggers. I’m not sure if this (or the grading criteria) was ever really addressed from the outset, and probably should have been.
10 A's doesn't seem like a lot to me. There aren't even that many playoff teams.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 27, 2009 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Five grades, 32 teams, six to seven teams per grade.
That seems pretty straightforward to me.
If we instead think of it as a bell curve, “B” becomes even more rarified and Fooch’s grades even more optimistic.
Mr John Morgan
Just wanted to ask why I was booted form your site. Is there an issue with formatting? Or do I hate the Seagirls too much?? I’m only kidding, but seriously if it’s formatting this is my first year blogging and I don’t mean to kill conversations at all. Please inform me, I’m seem to rub people the wrong way. Fearless frog and Fooch your input here would be helpful.
thnx
aka Optimist Prime 09...........9ers (site decorum)
Top ten getting A's would be like getting a 70% on a test
…and getting an A for it. If the top (nearly) third of the league gets A’s then there’s no point in even using letter grades. I think using +/- modifiers would have helped a lot, but it seems that the grading should have been addressed before this whole thing got started.
I’m also clearly not grading on a curve. All a curve does is ensure that your expected performance level for any particular grade one year is completely different the next year.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jun 27, 2009 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions
The good news is
that neither you or I or any one in either this or the hawks, or the cards blog has to go out on the field of play to back up what ever projections or assertions we make (including myself). I believe that that the Seahawks and the Cards are going down this year and nothing anyone else has to say will change my mind. I have said before and I’ll say it again, The 9ers will be 11-5 this year winning the division and on to the playoffs (not calling anything beyond that)
I don’t really care what any one else has to say from any team or any blog. Until the first snap of the first game is played all else is just an opinion and speculation. I am totally in overload about opinions. No BS, No sniveling, No whining.
Just tee that sucker up and PLAY FRIGGING FOOTBALL.
That’s the way it is in river city..
aww, are they sad because they suck?
I do tend to agree that the grades are a little high in some areas, but I actually think we have a talented O-line, we just ran a very bad system last year. Also, the RT spot doesn’t count
Everytime I see a new position ranking is posted on NN
I head over to FG to hear their opinion on the 49ers draft grade.
by supraman on Jun 27, 2009 9:48 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Thats because your kind of a tard dude...
Been telling you for months now. But I do give you some credit for putting yourself on the board and letting us tee off. On the seaduches…as much as it pains me to say…Gotlieb was on ESPN today and commented several times that the Hawks are the team to beat in the NFC West. He see them winning six more games than last season. Why you ask? Because they still have a pro-bowl QB, Branch and Housh at the corners, and THEY HAVE OWNERS WHO ACTUALLY MAKES THINGS HAPPEN. FA AQUISITIONS!!!!
But we have Morgan and Zigler. I’m really excited Sfgfan. The world is not balck and white though so I shouldn’t expect the yorks to close a deal. My appologies.
by Forttyner4life on Jun 27, 2009 10:29 PM PDT reply actions
learn to spell before you call someone a tard
and in his 4th season, VD broke through the wall, Niners fan rejoiced and all was well in the kingdom. Singletary 3:42
by 49erLou on Jun 27, 2009 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Gotlieb?
Who at ESPN are you talking about?
by David Fucillo on Jun 27, 2009 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions
A guy on ESPN
Said the Hawks should win 6 more games? What would that be…. 8 total?
By the way, it rains too much in Seattle. I’d be depressed too.
Seattle rain > San Francisco fog
in terms of depression factor. IMO.
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
I live around the SF Bay Area and I definitely agree
At least when the rain clears in Seattle, everything looks pristine and beautiful.
by aerozeppelin on Jun 28, 2009 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
San Francisco
Have you seen the weather in San Francisco this weekend? I lived in Seattle when I was younger and the rain just drove me crazy. I’ll stick with the fog.
by David Fucillo on Jun 28, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Have you seen the weather in Seattle the past month?
Most of the nation is embroiled in a heat wave but it’s been nothing less than spectacular weather here. Although I’m sure you agree arguing about cities is petty and irrelevant to this roundtable.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jun 28, 2009 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
agree
It’s been gorgeous this weekend down here. Although, one reason it’ll be nice to have the 49ers move down to Santa Clara is they won’t have the same weather issues they have at Candlestick.
by David Fucillo on Jun 28, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
its 105 here in Los Gatos today
good thing I bought one of those quick set pools from the drug store….
Tacky it may be, but refreshing it is also.
4+6 =/= 8
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jun 28, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Hello?
Will you answer my Gotlieb question???
by David Fucillo on Jun 29, 2009 7:04 AM PDT up reply actions
http://espnradio.espn.go.com/espnradio/show?showId=thepulse
Fooch…here’s the info on Gottlieb. Listen to him once in awhile.
I have a jobby-job so I can’t be on all the time as much as I love to hear you tell me how great our team is and how complex signing FA’s are. This of course is in harmony with the rest of the NFL signing and trading for superstars every single day this off season. But hey, the world aint black and white as our good buddy SFGfan puts it. Meanwhile, as evident by the hawks site and professional analysts alike, our situation as fair at absoulte best. We have THE worst QB situation in the league, we have one WR thats has ever proven anything in his life in Bruce, we have a TE that has all the talent in the world but needs a role model (Tony Gonzolez would have been great), and we have a STUD runningback who can’t get free because no one else on the field commands any real attention…so they stack th box. D is getting better. I’m happy with that. Again, discusted with our offense and sickened by the lack of support the FO has provided us thus far. Keep in mind they stumbled on Crabtree.
Seatte-nice 3 months of the year at best. Title-less town. Horrid sports teams that can never ever win the big one and couldn’t even keep an NBA team. Hahaha!!! Maybe we should give them the Kings just to be nice. Seattle is just a bigger, wetter, sloppier, Portland, thats it. At least Portland has a title!!! Ahahaha! All in all, Cail runs the show and eveyone knows it. The Bay Area is the crown jewel and Seattle will always have an inferiority complex. So give them a break they can’t help being awkward.
by Forttyner4life on Jun 29, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh my...
I was hoping you weren’t talking about Doug Gottlieb. You do realize he’s a college basketball analyst, correct? Yes he has a general sports show to spout his opinions but his opinion on football is as valuable as some bum on the street. Just sayin….
As far as the QB situation, in using CAPS, you make it sound like it’s absolutely god-awful. So, you’re saying you’d rather have the Broncos situation with Kyle Orton starting? How about Minnesota? At this point you’re looking at Sage Rosenfels, Tavaris Jackson and John David Booty. Considering Favre finished last season with a giant fork sticking out of his back, I’m not sure I’d go with that either. I’m guessing you assume the Jets and Lions are better at QB even though they have a pair of rookies who have not proven anything at the NFL level. Maybe you’d prefer TB with the proverbial poo poo platter of Brian Griese, Byron Leftwich Josh Freeman, Luke McCown and Josh Johnson?
by David Fucillo on Jun 29, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Ahhhhh yea, I'd rather have Byron Leftwhich or Taris Jackson...
Striaght up. In fact, this would be a great fan post: Who would you rather have? So I’ll propose it. But back to soemthing more interesting: So in a nutshell, other than Denver or Tampa Bay, you could come up with only two potential worst scenerios than ours? As for me, I’d rather have B-lefty or Tarvis. I believe we have the worst QB scenerio in the game. And at least Orton has Playoff experiance.
So Fooch…I really do appriciate your vast sports knowledge and that your a fan. But your faking the funk here buddy. Just be real wtih us…our QB situation is a joke. It is god awful. This is not Candyland dude, no goody gum drops for a Shaun Hill and Alex Smith battle. Don’t worry, you’ll get another interview with Jeb. Your a good writer. But stop being such a goofball on the QB situation and call a spade a spade.
This is why I get on here and rant and rave and use crazy bad words like “genius” and “retards” and actually misspell some words! I’m sick of the QB issue, and I’m sick of being let down off-season after off season with no move, plays, or wins in the FA market. Totally pathetic.
by Forttyner4life on Jun 29, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Not a very good list of examples =x
I’d take Kyle Orton over Smith/Hill in a heartbeat. Sage Rosenfels? Probably. He’d likely be leading the pack in our “position battle”. Tavaris Jackson may not be very good, but he’s proven more at the NFL level than Hill has, and has turned on more potential at this point in his career than Smith has. Greise isn’t spectacular either, but I could easily see him being as good as Kerry Collins was for the Titans last year – give him a solid supporting cast, and no one will complain. I’d probably have Byron Leftwich taking snaps with our first-team offense, too.
I’m not saying Smith/Hill is the worst situation in the world by any means…but we’re probably among the bottom 5 or 6 teams as far as how our QB situation projects. That can easily change with a full season of not being terrible from Hill or a league-average 12-14 game performance from Smith. For the time being, however, things aren’t all that pretty.
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
Kudos to Fooch
For standing in the fire with a bunch of Hawk fan whiners. The grading has been a great opportunity to learn about each team in the division, not to discuss the past decade.
I do not agree with all of Fooch’s grade but the Seattle argument against is piss poor analysis. The heart of the their gripe is the accumulative GPA of the 49ers grades is too high for a non-playoff team. However, the exercise is position by position grade. If they haven’t noticed this year’s 49ers squad isn’t weak at any particular position nor is it strong at any particular position. Where would you hand the 49ers an D or F? They are pretty much C’s and B’s across the board. It’s been stated, but a football team with grade A unit with a few D’s or F’s can probably outperform an across the board C and B grade team.
"If they haven’t noticed this year’s 49ers squad isn’t weak at any particular position"
Disagree.
“Where would you hand the 49ers an D or F?”
QB, OT, maybe WR.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jun 29, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
IMO, the niners have no D's or F's
But they have a question mark at RT, does it qualify as a D?, not really sure. Fooch let us know about what he thinks, I don’t always disagree but his analysis appear to be well thought out and not just jotted down in a hurry. QB-C+, WR-B-, and OT B. How in h-e double hockeysticks could our OT be graded D? We have Staley and Marvel Smith, sounds good to me. Before you knock Smith’s back, Hassleback (purposely mispelled) has a similar injury, and I’m sure you’re ready to give him an A!
aka Optimist Prime 09...........9ers (site decorum)
This kind of bickering is why the season needs to start NOW!!
Everything will be settled on the field.
I would have liked...
in this argument to have seen each blogger give their grade in comparison to the other teams’ grades, and rank accordingly.
The analysis has been solid, and Fooch, I’ve been one of your critics in your grades, but I do respect what you’ve written, I just think you’re too optimistic. in several places. Meanwhile, back in the Emerald City, we’re a little more pragmatic with our grades.
That’s fine, it’s been a good dialogue. And for the record, enjoy 8-8 and third in the division. We’re going 10-6 and taking both from you, and AZ is going to be 9-7. Those poor Lambs are a long ways away right now…
Please, for the LOVE OF GOD, stop suggesting next year's 1st round pick (or picks) be used for Taylor Mays and or a QB of the future. Let's just let the season unfold, people, and evaluate much deeper in the process!!!
by Tyler Jorgensen on Jul 25, 2009 11:10 AM PDT reply actions
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