QB Michael Vick reinstated by NFL on conditional basis
Thanks to Dre for getting a FanShot up, but I thought this was probably deserving of its own front page post for now. The NFL has officially reinstated former Atlanta Falcons QB Michael Vick. According to the link at nfl.com:
Vick can immediately participate in preseason practices, workouts and meetings and can play in the final two preseason games . . .Once the season begins, Vick may participate in all team activities except games, and Goodell said he would consider Vick for full reinstatement by Week 6 (Oct. 18-19).
That's certainly an interesting twist on the reinstatement. I wonder why he's only allowed to participate in the final two preseason games?
While the 49ers have said they will not sign Michael Vick, I know there are folks around here who want the 49ers to sign him. I'm not one of those people, but I won't begrudge them the space to discuss it. I do have to say I am definitely curious where he ends up. The Giants, Jets and Cowboys have all supposedly said they have no interest in signing Vick. Do we begin the countdown to his signing by the Raiders?
So again, whether you're for signing Vick, against signing him, or whatever, here's your forum (thus no need for FanPosts on the topic).
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LETS DO IT!!!
I would be for signing vick but Im not sure. if he were just to replace Haurd then yes. he’s an exciting player depending on how people still view him, He could immediately impact ticket sales. hes a freak. I like shaun hill even alex . Alex and nate are significantly younger then vick. Vick isnt the future….. but I like em!
but Huard is going to be cut anyway, right?
So if we sign Vick, it presumably means one of Hill, Smith or Davis get cut, and I can’t see that happening, and I don’t think they would take four QBs on to the roster, would they? I actually would like Vick – Pro Bowl QB, just needs a father figure to get him back on track, and that father figure is Michael Singletary. However, the Niners have ruled out it out, and it seems to me they are happy with their three guys, at least until the 2010 draft and those two first-round picks.
My tip is Vick ends up in Miami. I’ve always thought he would. He’s perfect for the Wildcat, and they can let him sit behind Pennington and their QB/WR Wildcast specialist Pat White until week six, when they unleash him.
Since Singletary is such an inspiring father figure and all...
Why haven’t the 49ers signed Koren Robinson and Plaxico Burress yet?
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Seven reasons really ...
1. Michael Crabtree, 2. Josh Morgan, 3. Isaac Bruce, 4. Jason Hill, 5. Brandon Jones, 6. Arnaz Battle, 7. Dominique Zeigler.
And?
One could argue Koren Robinson is more talented than every number besides 1.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
And one could try to push a rock up a hill
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Jul 27, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
What makes Robinson any worse than those listed?
Potential? He was drafted #9 overall, one slot ahead of Crabtree. Stats? First Seahawks receiver since Steve Largent to receive for over 1,200 yards. Also part of the longest play in Seahawks history, a 90 yard TD pass, as recent as last season.
The only downside with him is his frequent past abuse of alcohol. By all accounts, he’s been sober for years now. And if Singletary is actually the alleged ‘father figure’ he’s being championed as and is able to handle nutcases like Vernon Davis and potentially Mike Vick in check, why not K-Rob?
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Seriously?
What does his draft slot 9 years ago have to do with anything? What does being the first Seahawks receiver since Steve Largent to receive for over 1,200 yards 7 years ago have to do with anything. And what does a blind squirrel finding a 90 yard TD nut have to do with anything?
His only downside is that he’s no longer was never really very good. Robinson was a flash in the pan and he hasn’t done much of anything in the NFL since his fluke of a season. I don’t see how he offers any more upside than someone like Ashley Lelie
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Jul 27, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions
The point is...
that Robinson is arguably as proven or talented as any one of those receivers besides Crabtree. You guys are seriously overestimating what you have in the stables. You should be ashamed he even bothered mentioned Arnaz Battle and Dominique Ziegler.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
its you thats seriously overestimating
koren robinson. i’ll take josh morgan over any receiver in seahawks history except largent.
I take full responsibility for my irresponsibility.
Except for the fact that Josh Morgan wouldn't even be the #3 on the current WR depth chart for the Seahawks.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions
But they're known for being proven talents, in some cases exceptional.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Doesn't matter...
how proven you are if you can’t stay healthy
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
The only receiver on Seattle with a worrying injury history is Deion Branch.
And he was great even after coming back from his ACL tear. Check this, this, and this.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Not really
Housh has never started 16 regular season games and he’s on the wrong side of 30.
Branch can’t even be counted on to start 9 games a season.
Isn’t Burleson coming off a major injury?
I’d be largely concerned with the health of this WR corp.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Jul 28, 2009 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions
But Housh has only had one serious injury in his career, if I recall.
And missing a couple games a season still hasn’t prevented him from having the most receptions of any WR in the last 4 seasons.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 28, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
you don't think playing opposite
OchoCinco had alot to do with that?
and in his 4th season, VD broke through the wall, Niners fan rejoiced and all was well in the kingdom. Singletary 3:42
Yes, because Ocho Cinco is responsible for Housh's route-running and hands.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 28, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions
sigh
and in his 4th season, VD broke through the wall, Niners fan rejoiced and all was well in the kingdom. Singletary 3:42
Housh will be good...
but he won’t be what Seacock fans are expecting.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
Since Brandon Jones and Marvel Smith are the steals of free agency and all.
Even if Housh declines opposite Ocho Cinco, he’ll still be a well-above average receiver.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 29, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
The point is he's not really proven
He’s as proven as Ashley Lelie. Robinson had a fluke year, so I guess he’s proven he can put up an abnomal year but his whole body of work provens that he’s not that good.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Jul 28, 2009 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions
This froggy guy
I’m not a big fan of all this Seahawks propaganda
If I gotta play, I'm gonna play 'till I win,
Since I gotta be here, I can´t wait to begin
by albertoleecho on Jul 27, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions
What's wrong with that?
This blog is a better blog when fans of other teams post on it. There is only so much Ninerfan myopia one can take you know.
Well, we're waiting....
He just went Raider fan with Koren Robinson. I question whether he is really Seahawks fan, seeing most hate Robinson for his continuous time in the drunk tank.
I hate KoRo as much as the next guy.
But there’s no questioning he has skills.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Ok, that’s more like it.
He had skills before he drank them away is more appropriate. Now he is an average level NFL receiver, but back in time he was #9 worthy talent.
Right,
and out of the 7 receivers he listed, I’d say the only surefire one that’s proven to be NFL average so far is Isaac Bruce, and he’s like 37.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Those are like 7 Lofa Tatupu out there at WR . . . stats don’t tell the entire story . . . and the leadership and in game adjustments!
But Tatupu has elite to borderline elite stats in several statistical categories as well.
The leadership and the intangibles is an added bonus.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions
SEAHAWKSSSS 14-2 NFC WESTT CHAMPIUNZ SUPER BOWL
take dat to da BANK!
::Swoosh::
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions
haha
2 losses to SF?
Unfortunately I do think Seattle bounces back to win the division this year, although I certainly hope I’m wrong
That darn propaganda again….
If I gotta play, I'm gonna play 'till I win,
Since I gotta be here, I can´t wait to begin
by albertoleecho on Jul 27, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Yea.... Right.
In your dreams..,, only in your dreams….
by WC-Ninerhead on Jul 27, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Gentlemen....
….which takes me to our next point….don’t….smoke…..crack! – LT
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on Jul 27, 2009 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Indeed.
Of course Seattle won’t do that, since the 49ers are going to win the NFC West and there can’t be 2 division winners.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd pick the Cards to take the division....
until the 9ers can step up and the Seacocks can stay healthy.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
What if Kurt Warner remembers he's nearly 40?
What then becomes of the birds in red?!
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions
They are hosed
I’m hoping you’re right because if you are and Warner gets smashed and the Seacocks do stay healthy then it’s going to be an ugly battle for the West.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
I can't believe nobody got that yet
One of my favorite lines in The Water Boy.
by David Fucillo on Jul 27, 2009 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Lol I know right?
Had to be you that got it lol. Took long enough. Watched it lastnight and get it out of my head. Made Bobby Boucher on my NCAA10.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
Plaxico
I’m guessing the whole going to spend a year or more in prison rules out Plaxico.
by David Fucillo on Jul 27, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Plaxico's gun wasn't registered in NY State
The plea deal broke down. Mandatory minimum is two and half years. So if anyone wants Burress as a Niner maybe project him for when that Santa Clara stadium opens.
by Bob In Beaverton on Jul 27, 2009 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions
You don't say.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
just like the entertainment
Although it got me kicked off of the SEAGIRLS website………….Can’t wait to see ya typin come week 2
aka Optimist Prime 09...........9ers (site decorum)
Wait, what.
I didn’t even mention Stevens, but now that you bring him up…j/k. Although, him and VD…nevermind.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions
VD isn't a rapist.
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on Jul 27, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, right.
For some reason when I think of Stevens I only remember his DUIs.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions
A Father figure?
The man is dang near 30, is he not? This is not some fresh out of high school kid. By they time they get to the pro’s there should be no “father figure” issue. He needs to feel the pinch. Sign him on a team with Grossman, Vick at back up making the league minimum (now THAT would be punishment). Put him in for 2 plays a game. He does not deserve millions. If he loves the game, let him play for the minimum. He is a full grown man, this “father figure” bs is idiotic.
"If you move, I'll knock the hell out of you. I'm going to throw the ball as hard as I can, right at you. The only way you won't get hit is if you catch it. Understand?" my dad, teaching me to catch a baseball.
How the Niners won Super Bowls?
They had an Avg RB >we now have a Great one
They had an AWN SOME WR> we have a good Vet and Good Rookie
They Had an Good TE> We have Super one
They had SUPER STAR QB> we don’t >But Vick can make plays. With Vick and Gore in the same backfield def. will have too put 8 in the box . Bruce one on one and Crabtree one on and possible Davis one one with a LB come they could run the table in the weak west
"They Had an Good TE> We have Super one"
Where?
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey now
Davis has “potential.” I want to say this is the last year I’ll have faith in him, but I suffer from battered fan syndrome.
In fact we have two potentially super tight-ends ...
… in VD and Bear Pascoe. Not sure about Roger Craig as average though?!
Davis definitely has great potential.
But as of now, he’s definitely no super TE.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Clearly he's talking about Delanie Walker
The best kick returning tight end of all time
If I gotta play, I'm gonna play 'till I win,
Since I gotta be here, I can´t wait to begin
by albertoleecho on Jul 27, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions
where?
he’s in oakland, waiting for al davis to trade him to the niners for VD.
I take full responsibility for my irresponsibility.
Do it to it
Vick is sickkkkkkkkkkk. This dude has earned his way back into the nfl, but 6 weeks thats harsh man, and t.o. was right it is like kicking a horse when he’s already on the ground. Found this comment on espn, “I have a feeling this story is going to have a happy ending for Vick. Just a hunch. Good luck Vick, I hope you are signed and play GREAT the rest of your career. Just imagine the vindication you will feel if you ever hoist up that Superbowl trophy. That would be the biggest FU in the history of mankind. Keep a list of all those folks that are dissing you now and NEVER FORGET. Karma has a way of working these things out.” WORD, MV7 will raise that trophy 1 day, Vick is my BOY! lets go niners sign him up
Forgive me...
For taking the predictions of someone who overdosed on “supplements” with a few grains of salt.
The cake is a lie.
by Sultan of Seitan on Jul 28, 2009 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Vick
Just curious of how many clowns out there are all for Vick this year, when last year they were all against a stab at Kurt Warner who ended up in the Super Bowl. My opinion is simple you either improve or you DIE!! So from a football perspective im all for Vick but there are bigger issues here. So i say no because i remember a young lady last name Wipple who died in SFO, she was malled to death by a pair of vicious dogs just like Vick’s.. Michael Vick is a scumbag, he belongs in Oakland.
J GO
deep burns
If I gotta play, I'm gonna play 'till I win,
Since I gotta be here, I can´t wait to begin
by albertoleecho on Jul 27, 2009 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Stupid
He shouldn’t have any conditions put on it. He served his time and suspension. He should be allowed to be in full participation. Rediculous!
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
First of all,
I do not feel sorry for Michael Vick in any way.
It is not as if companies all across the country don’t follow the same practice. Even the military has regulations regarding felons. As much as I would like for him to be the perfect example of the man who “paid his debt”, I think that he would make a much better example as the man who lost it all because he could not abide by the rules.
The cake is a lie.
by Sultan of Seitan on Jul 28, 2009 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree
I hate to say it, but TO sid it best, “let Goodell serve 23 months in Federal prison adn see how he feels!!”
aka Optimist Prime 09...........9ers (site decorum)
He'll get right on that...
as soon as he commits a string of felonies like Vick. Perhaps he could come to your house, punch you in the face a few times and leave with all of your possessions to earn his trip?
by cabz on Jul 27, 2009 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I personally don't care what he did to the dogs
They weren’t mine. My tax money never went to anything for them, and it affected me and my family in what way? None……….I’d rather Vick be reinstated than lewis let off and that DE from th e rams drnk and killing a human being
aka Optimist Prime 09...........9ers (site decorum)
by rlott#42 on Jul 27, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
DUI manslaughter is 30 days
come on everybody knows that. Old people’s lives are worth 30 days.
If I gotta play, I'm gonna play 'till I win,
Since I gotta be here, I can´t wait to begin
by albertoleecho on Jul 27, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
You caught me
I’m just tired of hearing the same debate everywhere I go.
I hope Vick ends up in the UFL
If I gotta play, I'm gonna play 'till I win,
Since I gotta be here, I can´t wait to begin
by albertoleecho on Jul 27, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Vik did not kill anyone! And he wasn't involved in someone dying!
Leonard Little, Ray Lewis….. they both got off with slaps on the wrist. Vick served his time and it’s time for him to play.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on Jul 27, 2009 2:45 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Just a note.
Vicks involvement with dog fighting wasn’t a passing interest and wasn’t just about the cruel dispicable things he did to his animals. His was a essentially a gambling operation. With that said, Vick may have paid his debt to society for the dog fighting thing but has he gotten over his gambling ways? You can bet ( pardon the use of the word here) that he will be under a very BIG microscope for a long, long time. Any hint at gambling in the future will be all it takes to dump him again from the NFL I am not talking about an occasional trip to vegas for a big weekend but can he avoid playing the odds on other sporting events and such I Not saying he would, just saying that the pattern is there.
Well
There is no suggestion that he was betting on football, so this is no Pete Rose situation. I don’t feel like the gambling will be any more an issue than any other violation in the eyes of Goodell.
I never said there was,,
My point is that ANY BETTING on any sporting event ( except horse racing I guess) would likely be not be tolerated by the league.
by WC-Ninerhead on Jul 27, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions
That's actually a good point.
If I’m not mistaken, the gambling across state lines thing was responsible for most of the sentence, not the actual killing of dogs (although of course, that was a factor, and a well-publicized one)
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I hate PETA
If I gotta play, I'm gonna play 'till I win,
Since I gotta be here, I can´t wait to begin
by albertoleecho on Jul 27, 2009 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Join the club.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Not suprised that the PETA
hasn’t lobied to have all sport teams that are associated with animals sanctioned.. God forbid we should have the Vikings (non animal) “slaughter” the Bears…
by WC-Ninerhead on Jul 27, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Vick
I think Vick has payed his debt to society, and at the very least, this reinstatement is a very good thing.
I seriously wouldn’t mind seeing 10 Wildcat plays per game with Vick at QB. Its a defensive mismatch, and it helps create confusion. Vick probably still has 4.4 speed, and probably possesses the same arm strength. A Mike Vick Wildcat package seems a bit ironic though. Will PETA step in and get the NFL to acknowledge the formation as something different?
Where ever Vick goes, I hope he does well (unless he goes to a division rival). Hopefully the world can move past Vick’s past, and move forward with Vick’s future.
by Andrew Davidson on Jul 27, 2009 3:19 PM PDT reply actions
Arm strength, sure.
But I find it doubtful he’s still that fast. 2 years without intense cardio training probably slowed Vick down considerably.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Doubt it slowed him down to any other QB's speed
Everyone here is also aware he was never allowed to audible in his offense
aka Optimist Prime 09...........9ers (site decorum)
I am a dog man.
Vick is walking, talking garbage in my book. He paid his debt to society. Good for him. Still walking talking garbage. I don’t want him on my team. He belongs in Oakland or Dallas. They have low enough standards for him.
"If you move, I'll knock the hell out of you. I'm going to throw the ball as hard as I can, right at you. The only way you won't get hit is if you catch it. Understand?" my dad, teaching me to catch a baseball.
It's not "your" team
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Jul 27, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Semantics
It is my team just like it is your team. I don’t mind if he plays, I just don’t want him in SF.
"If you move, I'll knock the hell out of you. I'm going to throw the ball as hard as I can, right at you. The only way you won't get hit is if you catch it. Understand?" my dad, teaching me to catch a baseball.
That's fine you can have your opinion
But what are you going to do if “your” team signs him? Boycott?
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Jul 28, 2009 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, Arkie49er, you are most definitely entitled to your opinion but I must respectfully disagree. Vick did wrong by societal standards, but I doubt he had the same idealistic upbringing as you have had. He had a different world view, and his actions showed that. Now he has served a prison sentence with the purpose of modifying his world view, and as such it is time to give him a chance.
If you steal a car and I am morally outraged, should I continue to shun you after you get out of jail and have shown so far that you find stealing cars to be wrong? Give the man a chance. He would probably be a good backup for the team, perhaps finding his way into some trick plays.
Nope, I shouldn't shun you...
But is there some reason why I have to hire you? Even if you are a career 50% QB?
And by the way, the dude didn’t steal a car. He tortured and killed dogs for fun. Bit of a difference there. Let’s call it what it is.
Pro-dog. Anti-Vick. In every way.
by Call It The Throw on Jul 27, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
At least the dogs had a fighting chance?
If I gotta play, I'm gonna play 'till I win,
Since I gotta be here, I can´t wait to begin
by albertoleecho on Jul 27, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Right!
Expect… no one HAS to hire Vick in the NFL, he is just being afford the opportunity to apply. Would you deny one (Vick) a chance to submit an application to your company or anyone elses? That is what this is about.
You COMPLETELY missed my point. Let me highlight a little bit for you…
If you steal a car and I am morally outraged, should I continue to shun you
I, the individual, could care less about those dogs. I really don’t. At all. Just like you and that car. You call it whatever you like, but our perception of it is going to differ. Hence the highlighted area in the quote.
No, you don’t HAVE to hire “me”, but I you also shouldn’t give two [site decorum]s about what the minority of customers that dislike “my” car theft have to say about “my” hiring. And don’t think for a second that there is a moral majority out there willing to boycott the 49ers should they sign Vick.
He's also an average QB at best
That is, he was an average QB at best before 2 years off in prison.
Funny how the pro-Vick crowd doesn’t want to address any actual football reasons for signing him. Its all about how he has “paid his debt.”
And yeah, it is kind of pathetic that you equate stealing a car with torturing animals. Sad.
Pro-dog. Anti-Vick. In every way.
by Call It The Throw on Jul 27, 2009 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Because
cars cost more money and are generally more useful?
lol although they are living souls
Not to be compared to humans though like some crazy people like to think. And yes! They are crazy.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
If you read back, I mentioned him being a backup. Not a starter. Situational.
And pathetic? Pathetic is your attribution of a human-like status to a creature that is incapable of sentient or meta-cognitive processing. Yes, dogs feel pain. Dogs react to pain, but they are not on the same level of recognition of that pain as you or I. When a dog dies, you did not lose a brother, a sister, a son, or a daughter. You lose a pet. A creature that you were in control of. A subservient being.
Sad is your inability to process neither the original quote NOR the explanation of that quote. It was a hypothetical situation. The fact that you cannot grasp that fact is… disturbing.
Vick did something that is illegal and against the mores of this society, and he was punished for it. He will not do it again. Let it go.
Jeebus...
Sorry dude, but you’re not looking good at all in this one. That’s a pathetic response.
Well, we're waiting....
You don't have to be a dog lover...
To understand the importance of pets. A lot of people depends on them for more than just being some sort of subservient mouth to feed. They are used in therapy, used for protection, used in more ways than what you care to imagine. The bottom line is that you’re taking an arrogant stance without knowing what you’re talking about.
If you were in a position where you are euthanized in a because you failed to live up to expectations, in a way that was cruel, and illegal, that could be poetic justice, given your stance.
Well, we're waiting....
I have not underestimated their value in society; I am merely making the point that they are not humans. As such, they should not receive the same regard when they are treated in such a manner as Vick did.
Disposing of a sentient creature (I.e. one capable of truly experiencing pleasure or pain through meta-cognition) would in my eyes be a far worse crime than doing so to a non-sentient being. I am not saying humans are the only sentient creatures, mind… Gorillas, dolphins, and other creatures that have exhibited meta-cognition should receive extra protections from the acts perpetrated.
I would agree that I have taken an arrogant stance, but I would also say that I have a fairly good idea of about I am talking about. Unless you can bust out some credentials, I would say that my education in ethology and animal behavior should lend some credence to my arguments. I would also agree that I probably know less than I think I know, and my knowledge likely barely scratches the surface of the basal properties of cognitive function in humans, let alone other animals. Despite that, I have still learned enough to believe that the dogs involved in the Vick case did not suffer as much as people think they did.
I am not advocating violence against animals just because they may not be able to recognize the pain. What I am saying is that they are not people, they are not suffering from the same recognition of that pain, and we should not treat Vick as though he had tortured humans.
Also, in what manner would my euthanasia be justice? If you feel that dogs are fully sentient, then perhaps that could be true, but do you truly believe that?
I've had pets all my life..
And I’ve killed a few animals for dining purposes. Animals I’ve fed. But you’re looking at this this totally wrong. First, the animals were illegally used for profit. Then they were disposed of when they failed to help the business make the profit. An illegal business. Even worse, a lot that weren’t killed were starving. I mean come on, face it. Vick should have known better than to risk his career doing something that everybody knew was wrong. Even owners of Greyhounds get pinched for abuse, and the same goes for Horse owners. How are the dogs different form those animals? Do you realize that Humans are animals too, and that they were subjected to the same in History? It’s all about where a Society stands on what is moral, what we deem cruel and inhumane, and how we establish where our Humanity lies. The closest thing Human’s have to who aren’t Human are pets. If a kid goes out and thrill kills cats and dogs, do we ignore that pattern of behavior when people who have killed Humans have killed cats and dogs early in their “career”? This is what you don’t get. The people involved in “Bad Newz Kennels” were flat out thugs. They weren’t your typical dudes. It’s a thug sport, a blood sport. The reason why I compared the situation of if you were an object that had a certain role, and were killed not in battle, but because you failed in battle is where you need to find the true morality in this. Animals aren’t as disposable as you think they are. Just because you may have an education on this, doesn’t mean you have the experience to understand it. No one needs a formal education on pets, because a lot of us that do have pets had them most of our life, and you are really judging us, more than judging what Vick and his cohorts did. There is no way you can tell me what my first pet was to me. There is no way you can tell me what my current pets mean to me. I know this: they mean a lot more to me than you mean to me. They are my Family, and they mean a lot to the younger generation of my Family. Animals are more real than a poster on the Internet, and more real than a quarterback who you don’t know.
Dogs aren’t just things you throw away Bubba. Once you dispose of something that breathes for entertainment or gain, you have crossed into dangerous territory. Once you keep doing it because you don’t see anything wrong in what you’re doing, and not even doing it humanly (yes, they disposed the dogs in inhumane fashion) means that someday, you may be subjected to the same treatment if Humanity doesn’t draw a freakin’ line.
Well, we're waiting....
Check this..
Maybe I should kill my dog for your sake. I mean, he is just been a burden after 15 years. He really means nothing, right? Even after raising him from a puppy? I’m think I should electrocute him, and if he doesn’t die from that, I will slam him on the concrete until he does die. It doesn’t matter that he still can run, jump, eat, and bite your ass if you tried to cross into my property. Loyalty doesn’t mean a thing with my dog. Once I take the “Beware of Dog” signs down, I guess I will be safe. I guess you will be the one to protect me. After all, my dog is just a disposable animal, and you have studied him, even though have never met him.
Marcus Vick would never get within 20 feet of my front door, because my dog would alert me, and I would have my shotgun ready.
Would you let Marcus Vick through your front door?
Well, we're waiting....
Ok
With the thug commentary, the “morality,” and the shotgun, this conversation is over. You are either racist or have a completely different view on morality than I do. Either way, I am not going to argue with someone like you, as it is just pointless. YOU are the kind of person that I would not let through my front door, not Marcus Vick.
I would absolutely let either of the Vick brothers through my door.
Oh, and because you are obviously going to take this as a sign of defeat, check out Kohlberg’s Six Stages of Moral Development. At least you aren’t in stage 1 or 2, but I doubt you’ll ever pass stage 4.
Your crossing a line here..
If you’re gonn a call me a racist, you better be able to back that up a**hole. You don’t know who I am, don’t know my background, and you could never say that to my face without me setting you straight.
You are an arrogant pr**k. That’s why you are irrelevant to this conversation.
Maybe you should invite Marcus Vick over for a BIg Mac.
Well, we're waiting....
This conversation is over.
No more responses from either of you to each other.
by David Fucillo on Jul 29, 2009 6:49 AM PDT up reply actions
true.
this is my view. The team will do what they will do. It is my right to “shun” anyone I choose. I am morally outraged that you feel this man didn’t know torturing animals was wrong. Why do you have such a low opinion of him?
"If you move, I'll knock the hell out of you. I'm going to throw the ball as hard as I can, right at you. The only way you won't get hit is if you catch it. Understand?" my dad, teaching me to catch a baseball.
If it is your arguement that vick didn't know it was wrong...
then you are either an idiot or wearing blinders. The man did wrong. Don’t stick up a sign and say his morals were different. Of course they were different. He also knew it was wrong. Don’t play that “steal a car” business. If I steal a car, it is your choice as an individual whether or not you choose to accept me after my crime. That is a consequence of my actions. There is no gray area here. If you accept that the man is in fact a man, then you accept that he knew he did wrong, when he did it, and therefore must accept all consequences related to his actions. As I said at the onset, Let him play for Oakland. I never said he shouldn’t play, I just don’t want him on the niners. And yes, if you choose to shun me, that is my fault too. I STOLE THE CAR.
"If you move, I'll knock the hell out of you. I'm going to throw the ball as hard as I can, right at you. The only way you won't get hit is if you catch it. Understand?" my dad, teaching me to catch a baseball.
Yea, In Rome it was the culture to train humans to fight humans to death
and use people as torches to light the coliseum so that they could see the spectacle . And not so long ago in this country is acceptable to buy and sell people like dogs, so CULTURE is no excuse for doing what is wrong.
by WC-Ninerhead on Jul 28, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree entirely
I don’t dispute that he has paid his debt. I just don’t want him on MY TEAM.
"If you move, I'll knock the hell out of you. I'm going to throw the ball as hard as I can, right at you. The only way you won't get hit is if you catch it. Understand?" my dad, teaching me to catch a baseball.
Agree strongly
I can’t stand the guy. I think what he did is deplorable, but I want to make two points.
(1) By saying that I think he is deplorable for what he did, that does not mean that I don’t believe he has “paid his debt to society.” I wish that he would have been forced to spend more time in jail, but that doesn’t mean that I think his debt is “unpaid.” And, more importantly, that has nothing to do with why I don’t want him on the team. From a personal selfish standpoint, the fact that he has paid his legal debt doesn’t wipe his slate clean for me. Pro-Vick folks love to throw around the argument that he has “paid his debt” like it it an affirmative reason for signing the guy, which makes no sense to me. He’s still a scumbag.
(2) And more importantly, setting aside our various personal feelings about Vick, why in the hell would we want to sign a 30 year old QB who has been out of the league for years with a history of disciplinary issues (see: Federal prison for dog killing/torturing) and a history of injuries. Especially when – wait for it – HE WAS NEVER THAT GOOD OF A QUARTERBACK. The guy is barely above 50% as a passer. His skill was running (yes, he was an athletic freak) but we have a running back and I sincerely doubt that a fresh out of prison Vick at age 30 is still gonna make em miss the same way he used to.
Is there a football reason we should sign this guy, or is the fact that he has “paid his debt to society” good enough?
Pro-dog. Anti-Vick. In every way.
by Call It The Throw on Jul 27, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
i second that rec
and in his 4th season, VD broke through the wall, Niners fan rejoiced and all was well in the kingdom. Singletary 3:42
OK you're a dog man
So you care about every dog…Hope you are out there hollerin’ with PETA then
aka Optimist Prime 09...........9ers (site decorum)
I'm a dog man
I don’t want them tortured. PETA is nuts, and not my gig. I’m a dog man, I support no kill shelters, and get my dogs from shelters. You don’t have to be nuts to be a dog man.
"If you move, I'll knock the hell out of you. I'm going to throw the ball as hard as I can, right at you. The only way you won't get hit is if you catch it. Understand?" my dad, teaching me to catch a baseball.
Agreed
I love dogs. Have a big one. So as long as people and dogs are not compared in value it’s all good.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
I have four dogs...
right now.
Pitbull
German Shep
Rottie
and a Chihuahua (lol)
I hate Vick for what he did, but I believe in our justice system (to a point). The situation here is Vick admitted guilt, served his time and now he is a free man. Do I still hate what he did? Yes! But, he paid his debt and with that I personally give him his freedom back. Do I have to like him now? No! However, I can give him the respect of serving his time and afford him the same rights as anyone else. That being: Applying for any job and accepting any position a business will present to him.
exactly
I don’t care if he plays. I don’t want him to be a 49er. It’s not like I said haul him back to jail or something like that.
"If you move, I'll knock the hell out of you. I'm going to throw the ball as hard as I can, right at you. The only way you won't get hit is if you catch it. Understand?" my dad, teaching me to catch a baseball.
Now, I'm not against Vick playing in the NFL again, whether it be as a QB or otherwise.
But let’s face it, he’s really not a fit for SF or any other city, for that matter. For one, his signing instantly brings all sorts of negative publicity to a team. Two, let’s be real. Vick was never a great QB. Did he ever throw for over 20 TDs? And his completion percentage was always in the pits, somewhere hovering around the mid to low 50s.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
I don't think anybody is considering making Vick the face of their franchise
Or their franchise QB. He’ll likely only get offers at or slightly above the league minimum and at that level I think Vick could be a decent enough situational player. I would sign his soley to for his potential to convert 3rd and 3’s and such or even his “wildcat” ability. Although his ability to play at any level this season is highly questionable but you’re not talking about a big gamble.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Jul 27, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
There is no such thing as...
Negative publicity.
I am not opposed one bit for the Niners to sign Vick. It could work out. Give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he is a changed man and maybe that changed man can help bring another SB to the Niners. He doesn’t need to get PAID from the get go… let him work himself back into proving the kind of money he might think he is worth.
i believe what T.O. said. he went to jail for two years, lost all his money and endorsements, filed for bankrupcy. he has been punished enough.
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Jul 27, 2009 4:26 PM PDT reply actions
He didn't loose much.
He tried to hide millions before he was put in. I don’t understand why people have sympathy for this piece of crap. He’s been involved in multiple drug charges before this. What he did wasn’t a mistake it was a gambling ring in which he killed animals for YEARS! I would be pissed if our team even looks in his general direction.
and he took his punishment
you want him to be punished for the rest of his life?
ive done things in my past that i thought was ok then but now when i look back i cant believe i would think it was ok. people change.
having been to jail myself for past mistakes, i have sympathy for him in that it wont go away. it will always be there even if he changes as i did.
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Jul 27, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
"you want him to be punished for the rest of his life?"
If that’s not too much trouble.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
so if you do something as a young adult that you likely will regret later in life you would want to continue to be punished for it, even though you did your time?
mean while others buy there way out of rape, murder, dui charges etc and you forgive them and let them go on living their lives….yeah makes sense
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Jul 27, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Jul 27, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions
indiscretions
As has been mentioned, what about folks like Leonard Little and Ray Lewis? Ray Lewis knows more about that murder than he let on.
I’m a big time dog person and certainly have a problem with that. However, shouldn’t a DUI murder be a slightly bigger issue?
by David Fucillo on Jul 27, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Killing a human is a bigger deal.
Yet I can see it (Dante Stalworth) being called a “mistake” more than years of gambling and dog fighting/killing.
My friend got a DUI and had to go to some kind of class with other offenders
The facilitator asks the group how many times they estimated that they had driven drunk being they got busted and for most of the people it was in the hundreds, if not the thousands. So I too seriously doubt that it was the first and only time Stallworth had driven drunk.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Jul 28, 2009 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Fooch
what about the culture in which Vick was raised. Ever been to Newport News, VA? I think a lot of people do not realize the culture that cultivates a toleration for dog fighting still exists in the south amongst other places.
I agree with you that Vick was used to set an example in a time when celebrity favorism turned into quite the opposite. Now that this window of history has passed I feel we should add to the equation the fact that he grew up in a culture in which this was not outside the norm.
I would think Florida Danny would agree with me at least on this psychological fact.
Not sure what your point here is
Not sure what his “culture” has do with anything?
by WC-Ninerhead on Jul 27, 2009 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Culture
has a lot to due with a lot of things. One of those things is called “development” and along with “development” comes “moral development”. Why do you think cock fighting rings which are so common in South America?
You see, an individual throughout childhood and adulthood has a certain interaction with his immediate environment. It produces certain norms some places that are not shared with other places. That immediate environment is shared by many people, we call this “sharing” culture.
for instance
my use of the paternal “his” as a universal upsets a certain group of people, while other groups might find it unobjectionable, and others may be flat out indifferent. Whatever the case, their “culture” would define each case.
So are you saying that what he did is ok
because it is a part of his culture? he couldn’t help himself?
by WC-Ninerhead on Jul 27, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions
It's obviously not ok...
since he went to freaking jail for it…
honestly i think what vick did was and still is messed up but there are worse things out there that get almost no attention like white racist republicans
Or how bout being involved in the murder of a human being....
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
If OJ can get away with murder....
why can’t Sunnie have his kid? This guys → know what I’m talking about….
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
straw men
make good training dummies when training dogs to kill people instead. Straw dogs are good for canines.
Well
Do you think it is ok for women to have to be escorted and wear burkas in the Middle East? No? Try telling an entire society that. Culture can explain away a great many things, and to be completely intolerant of it is, to say, being very American about it.
Please don’t go into this whole rant about how I am not patriotic and the like; I don’t want to hear it. I support my country, and our troops. At the same time, I am willing to be tolerant of other cultures and their belief systems. While we don’t have to accept every action because it is executed as a function of one’s culture, we can at least accept the reasoning for that action and attempt to re-educate more than punish.
tolerance is for communists
sarcasm
please dont kill me :D
by Joshpreet on Jul 27, 2009 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Let's try to set aside the personal arguments for a second
Can anybody who advocates signing Vick please outline the reasons why signing him would benefit the 49ers? Please keep in mind the current make-up of the team, our needs, etc. This isn’t a sarcastic request, I am just interested in hearing some objective arguments on the subject.
In particular, I would be interested in hearing people’s thoughts on the following arguments I have made against signing Vick:
(1) He’s 30 years old with a history of injuries (so his speed and agility are likely on the downslope from here on out)
(2) He has been out of the league for 2 years (rusty is not a good trait for a QB)
(3) He was never much better than a 50% passer
(4) He has had a history of disciplinary problems (flipping off the crowd, legal issues)
I promise not to mention my personal distaste for the guy, just curious if there are some relevant arguments for Vick other than the fact that he has “paid his dues and deserves another chance.”
Pro-dog. Anti-Vick. In every way.
by Call It The Throw on Jul 27, 2009 6:07 PM PDT reply actions
Assuming he can still run
His mobility is a skill that the Niners lack at QB. Again, like I’ve said mulitple times, I believe he can be a situational QB to help convert 3rd and 3’s, etc. I imagine his passing is suffiencent when grouped with this rushing threat to convert crtical downs like that.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Jul 28, 2009 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I aggree with all the points you just listed..
I noted many of the same a month or so ago when news of his pending release surfaced. Personal issues aside I don’t believe he is “game day ready”. It will take some time for him get his head back into the game and be able to contribute. And when he is ready to play, I am not sure that he is any better than the QB’s we already have..
by WC-Ninerhead on Jul 27, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
he doesnt fit the team well.
i believe he should be able to play but we need a QB who can pass accurately.
i see him ending up with one of three teams, the rams, vikings or patriots. (patriots are said to have interest in him for the wildcat and have taken risks on players in the past)
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Jul 27, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Assuming Favre isn't wearing purple
Would be amazing to see those two on the same team.
Pro-dog. Anti-Vick. In every way.
by Call It The Throw on Jul 27, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions
favre staying retired
it may happen
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Jul 28, 2009 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Personally
I think he would make a solid 3rd stringer with the ability to play situationally so long as his speed and agility prove capable. The point would be to test him out in camp and see if he has lost a step. At the right (read: basement) price, he could be of some value to the team.
Did you know?
Shaun Hill ran 10.88 100M in high school. That’s moving pretty damn fast, if we needed a Wildcat QB than I’d say we already have one.
Just dug up some info
Apparently, Hill ran a (sub?) 4.7 40 yd at a Maryland player timing day.
Of course, Michael Vick ran a 4.25…. all depends on how much speed he has lost, and how much Hill still has.
Too funny
Vick’s speed or quickness can not be matched by Shaun Hill’s 100M time. Agility and quickness are worlds apart from straight line speed.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Jul 28, 2009 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Dogs Vs. Humans
i believe the reason why people hate vick more than little or lewis is because humans can be evil pieces of crap with black holes for hearts (see “dick cheney”). but dogs are too dumb to be evil and simply can not plot world domination (no thumbs).
therefore, dog’s life > human’s life.
Also vick is a bad QB :p
Please, no politics.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions
i tried
to get back on topic at the end haha
Humans>Dogs
What he did was bad but lets put it into perspective. Although wrong, they were fricken dogs. He paid his due and won’t do it again. He’ll make a great backup somewhere.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
-1
dog’s life > human’s life.
No way under any circumstance do I rank a dog’s life over a human being’s life. If I’m driving down the road, and there’s a dog runs out, I’m not breaking or swerving if it puts other human’s in danger (including myself).
I don’t care if a human that slaughtered 10 people is going up against lassie the friggin’ wonder dog, a human’s life is more valuable than a dog’s.
by Andrew Davidson on Jul 27, 2009 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions
my grammar
might put humans in danger.
by Andrew Davidson on Jul 27, 2009 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Really?
Because I thought Joshpreet was totally serious about that. Oh, wait.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 27, 2009 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions
my bad
I should’ve picked up on the sarcasm.
I’m too busy worried about the Angels and Giants covering -1.5 too be wrapped up in humour. Again, my bad.
by Andrew Davidson on Jul 27, 2009 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Ever seen Kujo?
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on Jul 28, 2009 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow, that brings back memories.
I read the book years ago.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 28, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
i stand corrected
St. Bernards can be evil
i kinda find that ironic lol
Cleary
this is a complex issue. They point is that we cannot just simply say, “Micheal Vick is evil and should be banished for all eternity because he participated organized dog fighting”
He served his time and should be again allowed to prove himself.
Agree
Let him prove himself…..somewhere else.
"If you move, I'll knock the hell out of you. I'm going to throw the ball as hard as I can, right at you. The only way you won't get hit is if you catch it. Understand?" my dad, teaching me to catch a baseball.
Agreed..
and besides, Singletary has said again today (NFW) not in those terms but you could almost here the door slam and lock click closed.
by WC-Ninerhead on Jul 28, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions
If you want Michael Vick, good riddance from Atlanta. We sure as hell were happy to see him gone. And regarding whether he costs taxpayers money, check out your local county animal control office. If it’s anything like metro Atlanta counties (all 20 of them), it’s overflowing with pit bulls, and you’re paying for them. Mike was such an inspiration here; many little boys and teenagers decided to make money on the death and destruction of dogs instead of learning how to throw a football, just like Mike. And, oops, I almost forgot, he flips the bird at people who really wanted to be his fans. Yeah, MV7 is awesome!
Hey...
If we take vick, can we trade him for ryan?
"If you move, I'll knock the hell out of you. I'm going to throw the ball as hard as I can, right at you. The only way you won't get hit is if you catch it. Understand?" my dad, teaching me to catch a baseball.

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