Michael Crabtree Holdout/Stalemate: Basic English, Basic Math

by Fooch on Jul 28, 2009 2:08 PM PDT in News Comment 34 comments

The rookies are reporting to camp today and will be made available to the media from 3:30 to 6pm. This of course gets us closer to the Michael Crabtree holdout/stalemate scenario. In reading over the articles about the Michael Crabtree contract concerns, one common theme has developed. Some folks refuse to call this a holdout, instead opting to refer to it as a "stalemate." They contend that Crabtree has nothing from which to holdout so he and the 49ers are simply at a stalemate. Other folks have used the words interchangeably. While most folks could probably care less, I thought I'd throw out my official position and why I think I'm ~~write~~ right.

While I do think stalemate can be used, I think assuming Crabtree doesn't report on time, this would certainly be considered a holdout. Let's look at the definitions (yes I know I'm a dork), as provided by TheFreeDictionary.com.

Definitions
Holdout: One that withholds agreement or consent upon which progress is contingent; a negotiator who hopes to gain concessions by refusing to come to terms; a refusal by a negotiator to come to terms in the hope of obtaining a better deal

Stalemate: A situation in which further action is blocked; a deadlock; a situation in which no progress can be made or no advancement is possible

Folks have said that because Crabtree is starting from a position of nothing he can't be holding out for more. I would disagree. While he has no money, given the structure of the NFL draft and salary slotting, Crabtree does have an expectation of money for which he can hold out for more.

Looking at the picks around Crabtree (and using small simple numbers), say the #5 pick signs for $175, the #8 pick signs for $100, the #9 picks signs for $90 and the #11 pick signs for $75. Wouldn't we all agree that in the current system, the #10 pick could have an expectation or even entitlement to between $76 and $89? If that's the case and he feels he should be paid like the #5 pick, isn't the #10 pick then actually holding out for more money than he's entitled to?

Many (possible all) of you may find this the biggest waste of time ever. However, it's been bouncing around in my head these last couple days so I figured I'd get my thoughts down here. If you disagree or can verbalize this better, feel free.

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Holdout

If I’m not mistaken, Maiocco is one of those people who refuse to call it a “holdout,” saying that he thinks a “holdout” is when someone is already under contract. Maybe it’s a “football definition” of the term that he’s abiding by, and not the free dictionary definition?

by sfgfan on Jul 28, 2009 2:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

possible

Here’s what Maiocco said in a post:

If history tells us anything it’s that Crabtree’s agent, Eugene Parker, does not mind engaging in holdout tactics. (Technically, an unsigned rookie is not a “holdout” because no contract has been agreed upon. I’ll try my best to refrain from calling it a holdout. Rather, it’s a contract stalemate.)

My opinion is just that Crabtree actually does have something, even if it’s not tangible. Although since nobody around him has signed, maybe then he really doesn’t have anything. But assuming the 11th pick signed a contract before Crabtree, I don’t see how there’s anyway the 49ers could pay him less. Although then you get into the specific position a guy plays. So, I think I’m just confusing matters.

by Fooch on Jul 28, 2009 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Slot money.

I don’t think the 49ers have any problem paying Crabtree “slot” money. Heck, I’m willing to venture that they’re willing to even give him a little more than what his “slot” (i.e. between 9th and 11th salary/guarantees) is to just get him on the field. Jumping from the 10th slot (or even 9th or 8th, if they’re willing to overpay a little like I think they may be) to 3rd slot is a ridiculous jump.

by sfgfan on Jul 28, 2009 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think your right on Fooch

It seems like a holdout for more money than what the Niners want to give him to me.

by Brendan Scolari on Jul 28, 2009 2:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Fooch

1st Paragraph…..write = right

by hudd07 on Jul 28, 2009 2:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

thanks and corrected

by Fooch on Jul 28, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think holdout is the correct term. The 49ers have been so frugal with their signings this offseason, I don’t think they’re going to give him any more than the #10 pick is expected. I think they would rather keep the extra cap room to pick up a veteran free agent if needed due to injury (ie: Dre Bly). I think they will not have a problem letting him sit on the bench and let others start ahead of him. They will get it done for #10 money.

by 49ers Rule on Jul 28, 2009 2:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

It's a holdout according to the stories

He is asking for compensation much greater than the slot he was drafted.

by bignerd on Jul 28, 2009 2:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree...

You are in fact a dork.

Just kidding. The 49ers are nowhere near the cap anyway, but paying a #10 pick #5 money sets a bad president for future negotiations. That said I think there should be some compromise here considering that he should have gone at least #7 if not for the awesome management skills of…I forget whats the name of that CFL team that plays in the east bay?

by Johnnysixnut on Jul 28, 2009 4:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Pay him #10 money

and make him sue the Raiders for the difference to a #7 contract.

by musketeer54 on Jul 29, 2009 2:36 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

rec'd

by Andrew Davidson on Jul 29, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oops Again

I agree with you, Fooch, but I COULDN’T care less about the semantics.

by daveofferson on Jul 28, 2009 4:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Fooch

must have the same rev spell checker I have .:-)

by WC-Ninerhead on Jul 28, 2009 4:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

What a lame

I wouldn’t budge on negotiations simply because of the injury and the draft slot. plus our wr corp isn’t in desperate need of him. (site decorum) crabtree and his agent. at least if the deal isn’t done

aka Optimist Prime 09...........9ers (site decorum)

by rlott#42 on Jul 28, 2009 5:36 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

An idea.

Can the management threaten to have Bamm-Bamm hit Crabtree every hour on the hour for as long as he holds out?

by Tricky-Nicky on Jul 28, 2009 5:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

fantastic idea

and in his 4th season, VD broke through the wall, Niners fan rejoiced and all was well in the kingdom. Singletary 3:42

by 49erLou on Jul 28, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sounds like a fantastic idea.

You should be GM.

(kidding around)

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Jul 28, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good Idea but how about this one

Crabtree has to sit and listen to Scott McKillop explain the fine details of ranching and farming while dressed in Modesto;s finest dudes..

by WC-Ninerhead on Jul 28, 2009 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

while dressed in Modesto;s finest dudes..

yikes!

and in his 4th season, VD broke through the wall, Niners fan rejoiced and all was well in the kingdom. Singletary 3:42

by 49erLou on Jul 29, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought it was Bear Pascoe who was the farmer.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Jul 29, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

cowboy

pascoe is the rodeo roper.

by Andrew Davidson on Jul 29, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yea that was my mistake..I was thinking of Pascoe

The thought of Crabtree going cowboy made me laugh..

by WC-Ninerhead on Jul 29, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Greed strikes again.

This is getting old with everyone holding out or stalemate as some of you like to call it. I call it GREED ! We don’t know what’s on the table but I’m sure it’s a fair offer. I wouldn’t pay 3th/5th pick money for him even if he is the second coming of Rice. He will earn his day at the payroll office when he proves he’s as great as everyone thinks he is. Until then, he’s the 10th pick in the draft and should be paid accordingly. This will give one WR a chance, make the best of it.

by LASVEGASNINER on Jul 28, 2009 6:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Unless there is a mass sighning of 1st round draft picks

in the next 3-7 days, this is they way it is. Yea I am pissed but aside from crabbing about it (pun intended) there isn’t a dang thing I can do about it. t

by WC-Ninerhead on Jul 28, 2009 6:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

There been talk for years

The Owners and NFL have been talking how to resolve this issue. Owners are tired of paying big buck to 1st rounders who play like mid to late round. Some do deserve it, other have to earn it. The Players Association needs to cooperate also .But, I doubt that they will fix it.

by LASVEGASNINER on Jul 28, 2009 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Totaly makes sense, I understand that there are 3 sides to this issue

But the Players and Owners look at is if there are only two sides. The 3erd side of this is the fan base. And no I am talking about the sentimental “Jee whiz thats my team” as the fan side. No I am talking about the hey that’s my $ your talking about.

We the fans pay the gate price, the TV folks pay there portion, but in the end we pay for it in the products we buy, and when all is said and done these guys ( some may be) are not worth the price for admission.

So where does it end????

by WC-Ninerhead on Jul 28, 2009 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

it doesnt matter which word you use.

people know what you mean.

I take full responsibility for my irresponsibility.

by these3words on Jul 28, 2009 7:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

He is also holding up the entire draft

Everyone below pick #10 bases their contract on that pick’s rewarded salary. He holds out, it causes others to hold out.

by bignerd on Jul 28, 2009 9:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

So, did the 49ers start camp already? Or did just the rookies have to begin workouts?

Also, the popular theory here is that Crabtree is waiting for Darrius Heyward-Bust to negotiate a contract first, to get a rough estimate of what Crabtree’s should be. But what DHB is doing the same, and waiting for Crabtree’s contract to get done first?

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Jul 28, 2009 9:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

camp

Rookies reported today, veterans report Thursday. First practice is I believe Saturday (but still not 100% sure on that). This is pure guess work but I’d imagine rookies are possibly hitting the class room and/or the weight room at this point. Definitely something I should probably know!

by Fooch on Jul 28, 2009 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

update

Got this from Barrows blog:

Several players agreed that it was a little odd that the 49ers would have three days of classroom work before their first practice Saturday morning. In fact, the 49ers are permitted to begin practicing Thursday. What does that mean? Said Smith: “I think there will be a lot of meetings and walk throughs, meetings and walk throughs, meetings and walk throughs.” Said Hill: “We’re going to get a lot of mental reps, I guess. …It’s hard to get out there if you don’t know what you’re doing.”

by Fooch on Jul 28, 2009 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs