49ers Training Camp battles after the first turn
Veterans report to camp today, joining most of the rookies from Tuesday. With practice kicking off on Saturday, it would seem helpful to have a rundown of the various positional battles we'll be tracking over the next 6 weeks. While I'm not a big horse racing fan, I do like some of the terminology. In this instance, while training camp is only just now starting, the parties in these battles have already begun the race. Obviously last year's performance plays into it, but more importantly, we've had the various minicamps and OTAs. We can't get a great idea (or much of any) from those practices, but it does give the coaches something with which to start. I did this exercise last year, but I've added in participants to keep people clear on who's involved.
The 49ers have improved their talent level this offseason, but they still face questions like any other team. The mainstream media focuses on the quarterback battle, but we know there are plenty of other battles to consider. Of course, that doesn't stop us from kicking things off with . . .
Quarterback
Participants: Shaun Hill, Alex Smith
Leader at the first turn: Shaun Hill
It's been discussed ad nauseum, but we'll discuss it one more time. I didn't include Huard because Singletary has already said it's a 2-horse race. The latest buzz is that folks in 49ers HQ are pulling for Smith. Even if that is the case, I'll mix metaphors a bit and say Hill is the "champ" and Smith is the challenger. For Smith to win the job, I believe he has to take it, as opposed to having it handed to him. One thing to keep in mind is that last year Hill and Smith were battling and a dark horse came out of nowhere early on to pull the upset. Not exactly shocking in retrospect, but surprising nonetheless.
Cornerback
Participants: Dre Bly, Tarell Brown, Shawntae Spencer (longshot)
Leader at the first turn: Dre Bly
I think this could be one of the more entertaining battles in training camp. Dre Bly and Tarell Brown are both confident individuals and think they're the best man for the job. I include Shawntae Spencer, who is recovering from ACL surgery. I don't expect him to win the job, but he could certainly push them. I give Bly the edge because of veteran experience. The SFGate Niner Insider seems to think it's fairly even at this point. In the end I'd imagine most of us would prefer Tarell Brown win the job. He's significantly younger and viewed as a long term answer, unlike Bly. Fortunately, given the receiving talent in the NFC West, both Bly and Brown will see significant playing time, whether it be the #2 corner or the nickel back.
Starting Wide Receivers
Participants: Isaac Bruce, Brandon Jones, Josh Morgan, Jason Hill
Leader at the first turn: Isaac Bruce, Josh Morgan
I really wasn't sure where to go with this. Some of the projections I've noticed have Bruce and Morgan starting at wide receiver. In minicamp and the OTAs, Morgan actually received playing time at both starting receiver positions. As for Bruce, well I definitely think he's surpassed by the end of the season, but not right off the bat. At the same time I didn't include Michael Crabtree here. Crabtree is a wildcard at this point, even if you don't factor in the fact that he hasn't signed. He seems to play a similar position to Josh Morgan, but I'd imagine at some point we'll see Morgan and Crabtree on the field together (hopefully for a long time). If Crabtree gets in to camp and tears it up I suppose we can add him in to this. As for Hill, he will find plenty of playing time but more as a third receiver on the field.
After the jump we look at four more battles...
4th/Practice Squad Running Back
Participants: Thomas Clayton, Kory Sheets
Leader at the first turn: Even
I broke it down this way because I think one of these guys ends up as the 49ers 4th running back on the 53-man roster OR as the single running back on the practice squad. I only think one of these guys will be a 49er in some fashion the first week of the season. It's possible they lose both via waivers, but I just don't see them keeping both. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Both have practice squad eligibility. However, if the team likes Sheets and his potential as a running back and even a return man, why even both keeping Clayton as well? I do like Thomas Clayton, but he does not seem to be in the 49ers long terms at this point. Maybe that changes. Based on that, I probably should have Sheets as the front runner, but who knows what will happen that deep in the roster.
Backup Offensive Tackle
Participants: Alex Boone, Barry Sims
Leader at the first turn: Not even the slightest clue
Assuming Marvel Smith stays healthy (certainly a big assumption), Adam Snyder will be backing him up. The 49ers have some flexibility among their offensive lineman and who can play a mix of guard and tackle. In my initial 53-man roste projection I took Barry Sims over Alex Boone to the anger of many. I would much prefer Boone make the roster, but I really don't know what to expect at this point. Sims has the veteran edge, but he also really isn't all that good. I'd take upside any day of the week. I'd imagine that first preseason game should tell us a lot about how the depth chart is shaking out at tackle. I wouldn't expect Joe Staley and Marvel Smith to play a whole ton, so we'll get a chance to see who gets first crack after them. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if Marvel Smith was rested for most of the preseason as a precaution. If that's the case, it opens up even more backup playing time.
Left Defensive End
Participants: Isaac Sopoaga, Kentwan Balmer, Demetric Evans (longshot)
Leader at the first turn: Isaac Sopoaga
A lot of folks want to see Sopoaga playing at nose tackle given his tremendous size. At this point I hold the belief that Aubrayo Franklin will spend most of the time there, with Sopoaga and Balmer getting some time mixed in. That leaves Sopoaga and Balmer battling for the starting LDE position. Evans will certainly get plenty of playing time, but I would expect it to be in a platoon/backup sort of role. Back in March, Maiocco indicated the Evans signing meant Sopoaga would move back to nose tackle. Am I wrong to think this left defensive end battle will primarily involve Sopoaga and Balmer? This remains one area where I continue to have questions.
6th Wide Receiver
Participants: Arnaz Battle, Dominique Zeigler
Leader at the first turn: Even
"Even" is probably a bit of a cop-out. However, this "positional battle" is not quite clear if it even is up for grabs. We don't know if the 49ers will even carry a sixth receiver on their 53-man roster. If they do, Battle has an advantage in that he can bring a lot to special teams. On the other hand, Zeigler has flexibility in that he still has practice squad eligibility. So, you really can't do much with this without knowing whether they're actually competing for something.
I'm sure I've missed something here, so please throw out any other positional battles I've missed. I think this list is a little shorter because more people are solidfying their hold on a position, at least early in the season.
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43 comments
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Comments
i dont think Clayton is eligible for practice squad this year
by 49er4life on Jul 30, 2009 9:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
eligibility
He should be eligible again because he spent fewer than 9 games on the active roster in his one season on the active roster. I’ll find more details, but that’s the basic gist of it.
by Fooch on Jul 30, 2009 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Sheets has the advantage as he is also a returner and the 49ers need a backup returner
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Jul 30, 2009 10:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If I recall...
… Sheets never returned kicks in college, did he? I thought his kick return “ability” was always speculation in the draft scouting reports.
by sfgfan on Jul 30, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For what it's worth...
Alex Smith DID have the 2nd QB spot going into the season last year… and that was with his injured shoulder.
"We want WINNERS!" - Coach Singletary
by cassusriff on Jul 30, 2009 10:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Technically...
… I think he was #1 going into the preseason, and #2 only by virtue that he was the incumbent starter the year before.
by sfgfan on Jul 30, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
That sentence is all kinds of fail. I hope my point makes it across anyway.
by sfgfan on Jul 30, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I got what you were saying
I had thought that Marz had announced that JTO was the starter even before preseason. To be honest the way that whole thing went down last year I wasn’t sure that Smith really was an injury until they anouced is surgery.
by WC-Ninerhead on Jul 30, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t sure that Smith really was an injury until they anouced is surgery.
I seem to remember myself feeling the same. I can’t remember for sure, but I seem to remember thinking something along the lines of: “wow, so much for squashing that beef, right Nolan?”
by sfgfan on Jul 30, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe he told Nolan
at the beginning of the season and Nolan didn’t believe him. That is when things went sour between Nolan and Smith. It was weeks later that the Doc’s said something may be wrong. In the meantime Smith throws were often off target.
by LASVEGASNINER on Jul 31, 2009 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's how...
… the original injury played out. Smith was all gung ho about the training camp competition, even when he came in sucking.
by sfgfan on Jul 31, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about Pascoe for TE 2/3 or Scott McKillop for ILB 3 ?
by 49ers Rule on Jul 30, 2009 11:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Pascoe
If he can pick up the pro game quick enough he would fit in really well in this offense. I don’t expect him to contribute until mid-season.
by goatfather on Jul 30, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he'll contribute much at all.
Unless Davis or Delanie Walker miss significant time.
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
by shlecko on Jul 30, 2009 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Walker vs. Delanie
Walker is not a blocking tight end, he’s about 30 pounds shy. So, in a 2 TE set it will most likely be Pascoe. They will work his blocking technique hard at practice. Remember last year Bajema was the #2 TE as far as blocking was concerned and that was in Martz’s offense. Walker mostly was used as a wide-out. I would imagine we could see Pascoe out there quite a bit.
And here’s the thing. He has great hands and is a sure catch. Defenses will not even notice him on the field. He will be an excellent target on 3rd downs and goalline situations.
by goatfather on Jul 31, 2009 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What you are saying makes to me..
the one thing that I would caution about is this.. Early on Pascoe will indeed slide under the radar and be missed by the opposition defense, but with every sucess comes more radar and less stealth. So that scenario will truely depend on the sucess or A) the running game to make to pass play viable ( selling the option play to bring the DBs in) and 2) the sucess of the receiving corp in receptions and RAC to make the defense consider them serious threats.
by WC-Ninerhead on Jul 31, 2009 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of Course
The question if he gets success early to me if; Will VD play well enough to free up the Bear?
by goatfather on Aug 1, 2009 7:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct me if I'm wrong ...
… but this piece by John Crumpacker in the Chronicle seems to me to be the first time any major 49ers writer has actually stated that one of the two QBs would win the starting job, as a straight-up statement of fact. “Strong showing in training camp will mean he’s the starter,” it says underneath Shaun Hill’s name.
Crumpacker slightly seems to contradict himself when he says later that Smith has a chance, but even though I know we all know Hill is favourite (whether or not Singletary agrees with himself this week …) this seems to be the first time a prominent member of the San Francisco media has actually said it will definitely be the case?
by LondonNiner on Jul 30, 2009 1:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That will tough because of the
Singletay law.. He has bared anyone one staff from talking to the media except himself and the OC. So until they have a consensus at the top coaching staff and are willing to go public with it, the naming of a starter will be a mystery.
by WC-Ninerhead on Jul 30, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I seem to remember...
… Maiocco saying in the past that Hill was definitely the guy to beat with the 49ers. I guess that’s still not that direct, but I don’t think Crumpacker’s statement was that direct either, at least any more so than what I seem to remember Maiocco saying before.
by sfgfan on Jul 30, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, you're probably right WC-Ninerhead
I doubt anyone knows for sure. Like you say, I doubt Singletary and Raye know yet. But I thought it was interesting that someone like that had put his name to a starter.
Weirdly, I feel myself going from Hill to Smith. At the end of last season, I was a straight-up Shaun Hill man. I desperately wanted him to win the starting job – I thought he’d earned it, and as a QB with a winning record, I was bit sick of people saying he wasn’t an NFL starter. But I think I’ve been slowly and steadily worn down by the media, and pundits, saying Hill isn’t up to it, and others saying Smith is finally about to show why he was a No 1 pick. I am now quite excite about Smith, still a bit excited about Hill, and a little excited about Davis’s potential, plus a whole lot excited about the 2010 draft and our two first-round picks, where we get to claim the QB of the future (if Smith by then hasn’t proved he’s the QB of the future … or Hill … or Davis … oh man, it’s complex!)
by LondonNiner on Jul 30, 2009 2:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This article sums up my feelings on Alex Smith. Plus all the B.S. about Nolan making him play when he came out saying there was something wrong with his shoulder. Plus them portraying him as soft in the locker room. I think he’ll be fine as an NFL starter with some more experience.
by 49ers Rule on Jul 30, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What says to me that he will still be successful is this: He has the selfless attitude of all great players. He has the singular talent that made him the consensus #1 Quarterback in the 2005 draft. His team now has the support structure designed to get the best out of its players, and the team has not given up on him. Those three factors have, in the past, ensured the success of previous #1 picks. Those who have not achieved success did not have those three elements in place.
That is why Alex Smith will be the starter. That is why Alex Smith’s breakout year is now.
by 49ers Rule on Jul 30, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"He has the singular talent that made him the consensus #1 Quarterback in the 2005 draft."
Here’s the problem.
Alex Smith had one year’s experience starting in the Mountain West conference in a shotgun offense. That almost never translates to the NFL, and other QBs like that are usually drafted in the 6th/7th round, if drafted at all. See: Brennan, Colt and Harrell, Graham. Smith put up some decent numbers, but in the end, that system and his lack of physical talent (and make no mistake, Smith is not even the same planet of a QB prospect as even someone like Mark Sanchez) made him a pretty poor QB prospect.
Secondly, Smith wasn’t even the consensus #1 QB. There was a large faction of people who believed (and in retrospect, they were right), that Aaron Rodgers was the better QB. There was speculation all the way up to the draft that Rodgers could have been the #1 pick.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 30, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That almost never translates to the NFL, and other QBs like that are usually drafted in the 6th/7th round, if drafted at all.
The 49ers weren’t the only ones that thought Smith was a first round pick, though.
As for Rodgers vs. Smith, if I’m not mistaken, it was a question of wanting most likely to do well or wanting the one that may do the best. The 49ers opted for the latter out of Smith. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure a lot of scouts thought Smith had the higher ceiling, but Rodgers had the better skillset to guarantee some results.
by sfgfan on Jul 30, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"The 49ers weren’t the only ones that thought Smith was a first round pick, though."
Yeah, I didn’t mean to say Smith would have been drafted that late had he not been picked #1, but that was still a product of that draft being putrid for QBs. Even Rodgers wasn’t a great option, and he even had the Cal/Tedford thing going for him.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 30, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he has had 3 years to age and this is his 4th year
so this year we find out if we have fine wine, or sour grapes (couldn’t resist that line)
by WC-Ninerhead on Jul 30, 2009 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or is that 4 yrs to age.and this is his 5th yr.
i get confused in my old age…
by WC-Ninerhead on Jul 30, 2009 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Secondly, Smith wasn’t even the consensus #1 QB. There was a large faction of people who believed … that Aaron Rodgers was the better QB.
To be fair, a lot of the draw to Smith was his age and supposed “football smarts.” It was never in question that Rogers was more NFL-ready, but the majority of the scouts considered Smith to be the better prospect of the two.
It’s just an F’d up irony (or a huge mistake on the part of the 49ers organization) that Smith was thrown into the fire while Rogers was given years to learn an NFL system that wasn’t far from the one he ran in college.
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
by shlecko on Jul 30, 2009 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huge mistake on Nolan..
In my mind, if you start your first offensive system in Year 1, you should still be running it in Year 3. The mistake on the 49er’s side was hiring a neophyte who was flaky in both his offense and defense.
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on Jul 31, 2009 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smith vs. Rodgers
How do you think you would feel about this if the 49ers drafted Rodgers & through him to the wolves & Smith had 3 years to sit behind a hall of famer holding a clipboard in the same offense? It’s apples & oranges. What happened to Alex Smith would be more akin to Mike Mularkey leaving Atlanta and being replaced by a nobody named Jim Hostler. Add to that some inferior offensive line play and a front office that is in frugality mode & see what would happen to Matt Ryan. Oh yeah, then don’t forget to ditch Hostler for Mike Martz & institute a QB “competition” with two career backups & a #1 overall pick (who was still injured evidently). And then when your $49.5 million dollar investment says there’s something wrong with his shoulder, force him to play and embarass him for being soft in front of his teammates. Once Smith really gets rolling, everyone will forget there ever was a competition or that Shaun Hill ever had a real chance to start 16 games in the NFL.
by 49ers Rule on Jul 31, 2009 4:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is what you get
when holding the clipboard behind a HOF. Last year, Rodgers threw for 28 TDs ( 6th best ) and 4000 yards for a full time starter. Nolan might have ruin Smith. But he’s getting his secord chance. I only hope that whoever wins the QB position is on talent instead of the Brass trying to save face. Cause we all know who the Bosses are rooting for. Have to be honest, I’m rooting for Hill. What he did in 8 games is Pro Material ! I didn’t say Pro Bowl, just Pro Material.
by LASVEGASNINER on Jul 31, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are quite a few people...
… who are of the belief that Singletary and McCloughan are not connected in terms of “face.” In other words, one could be fired without the other one following suit. The only person who is definitely under the microscope this year is McCloughan. Singletary isn’t going to make a personnel move just to save McCloughan’s face.
by sfgfan on Jul 31, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I feel there is no connection between the 2. Scott Mac is gone if they can’t produce this year.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on Jul 31, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t say he’s definitely gone, but he’ll definitely be criticized very heavily.
by sfgfan on Jul 31, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's gone....
only because I feel he’s been criticized enough that it will be time to make a decision. Although I do feel that for the most part he has gone out to get pretty good players as well as draft good ones too. There will always be some duds no matter who the GM is. I feel that he’s better than Donahue but then again that aint saying much considering Donasuck was the worst GM to Matt Millen lol.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on Jul 31, 2009 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure what you're getting at.
Obviously, Smith didn’t have anyone near Favre’s caliber to sit behind (Dilfer count?), and likely was the best option at QB from day 1. Yes, in retrospect throwing him out there was a very bad move, but had the 49ers thrown some crappy QB out there and started losing, there would be clamor by week 4 to start the #1 overall pick guy with the huge contract, and begin looking towards the future.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Jul 31, 2009 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, Smith should not have started at least the first 6-8 games his first year. Put yourself in his shoes… Going from playing in the Fiesta Bowl in Urban Meyer’s spread offense on new year’s day to starting for an NFL team in a pro-style offense to starting for the Niners in the first preseason game againts Oakland August 13 the same year. I think it’s safe to say after going 2-14 in 2004, the 49ers should have been satisfied to continue starting Dorsey or Rattay at least for a couple months until Alex Smith got his land legs. I don’t think Rodgers could have come into that situation and performed at a high level either.
by 49ers Rule on Aug 1, 2009 7:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I don’t think there’s any way Roger would’ve excelled in those conditions either. The only thing is that a lot of st round QB’s start pretty fast nowadays. I feel the changing of OC’s every year hurt Smith more than the 9ers starting him during his 1st year.
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on Aug 1, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I pretty much gave up on Smith last year
but that was before I knew he truly was injured, After that I felt like maybe, just maybe there is a real NFL quarterback under that hat.. Add to that he restructured his contract for less $. So for me If he gets a real honest to god chance to prove he can do it (no water boy pun here) then I say go for it. But until he proves on the field that he is “all that” and Hill fades into the sunset somehow Hill is my choice.
by WC-Ninerhead on Jul 30, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Starters
Alex Smith
Dre Bly
Josh Morgan and Isac Bruce(That is if he make it through camp without retiring. Otherwise Jason Hill.)
Thomas will win RB praqtie squad
Boone
Balmer(Pulling for you buddy)
Zeigler(Hes bigger and Battle stinks)
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on Jul 30, 2009 2:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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