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NFC West opponent recon.



With all the changes in the NFC West between seasons, I wanted to get an idea of what the 9ers will be facing within the division when the regular season starts. Every year there are 2nd and 3rd year players who step up into starting positions, rookies who could possibly make a big impact, and coaching changes that result in offensive or defensive scheme changes. So I watched the Cards-Steelers game and listened to the Rams-Jets and Seahawks-Chargers games. I also listened to the Panthers-Giants game last night because the 9ers own Carolina's 1st round draft pick next year and I wanted to scope out the situation there. My report, for what it's worth, is below.

 

Cards-Steelers:

QB: Kurt is still the man in AZ and he played well, moving the chains easily and treating blitzes as opportunities. The news is that former USC QB Matt Leinart seems to have regained his confidence and played very, very well. St. Pierre, who was given an opportunity to compete for the backup position, wasn't in Leinart's class.

RB: Beanie Wells didn't play because of injury, but Tim Hightower has come to play this year - he's lighter, faster,  stronger, and seems to have an attitude. If Wells can play as advertised, this could be a deadly combo.

OL: It's solid, with one glaring exception - Mike Gandy at LT. He was beaten both inside and outside several times. It may be just preseason rust, but he didn't look good at all. He bears watching.

WR: Fuhgitaboutit. It's Fitzgerald and Boldin, and unless the 9ers develop a better pass rush on Warner this year, they will put some serious hurt on the red and gold.

DL: Former 9ers DC Billy Davis was hired as DC and he's installed a standard 3-4. Third-year draft pick Allan Branch is the NT and 2nd-year DE Calais Campbell is the LDE. Watch out for both of these guys. Campbell was in the Steelers' backfield all night and Branch was driving the C back into the QB whenever on the field. I had both of these guys pegged as potential busts when they were drafted. And that's why nobody pays me to evaluate potential. Both of them played some 2-gap and did well against double teams.

LB: Billy Davis has installed his zone blitz package already and was exercising it early and often against the Steelers. He had guys coming from everywhere, but without much success. Big Ben refused to go down and was elusive in the pocket. But now we know what to expect from the Cards - heavy blitzing from the get-go.

DBs: DRC is going to be hard to beat - he plays fast and physical. Wish he played for us. But they have solid players at both safeties and CB, so this is a strength for them this year. They will make the 9ers pay for passes that are off target and have the speed to match up well against our receivers.

Overall:Only a good pass rush is going to neutralize the Card's passing game and their OL is slightly suspect. Their run game will be improved, but nothing we can't handle. The defense is their weakness this year, just like last year, but it isn't the secondary, it's the front seven that may be susceptible to draws and screens because of overpursuit and overeager young players. A heavy dose of Gore and good play action can put points on the board against the Cards.

 

Rams-Jets:

QB: Bulger is still bad and Kyle Boller hasn't improved much either. Keith Null actually looked better than both of them.

RB: Steven Jackson is still a stud, but nothing we can't handle.  Antonio Pittman wasn't bad, but he's not starting material.

WR: Donnie Avery is injured and nobody else looked decent. TE Randy McMichael may be their best receiver.

OL: How old is Richie Incognito? LT Alex Barron looked a little rusty at first and then played well. This line is definitely suspect - the Jets pass rushers overwhelmed them early, sacking Bulger three times.

DL: Another team switching to a 3-4 defense, but it appears to be a Nolan-like hybrid with lots of four down linemen and little blitzing. The big surprise here is that Chris Long does not appear to play in space very well as an OLB. But they still have some good players, including  DE Leonard Little and DT Adam Carriker. They didn't play well against the Jets, however, and their personnel doesn't appear to be a good fit for the 3-4.

LB: OLB Will Witherspoon and rookie ILB James Laurenitis were the only players to impress, but it won't be enough.

DBs: They've got a couple of decent safeties in J. Butler and O. Atogwe, but the starting CBs are suspect. Speedster Justin King and Johnathan Wade could have breakout years if they get on the field enough.

Overall: They're still the Lambs and they still don't have the personnel to break out of the cellar. Throwing or running, we can score points on the Lambs because their defense is still pathetic, although it's still early and there was little blitzing. The OL is pretty creaky and susceptible to a good pass rush if we can find one. But Jackson is still a beast, so I would drop the SS into the box and concentrate on him until they show a passing game.

 

Seahawks-Chargers:

QB: Matt Hasselbeck is back and looking smooth and confident. But I really think Seneca Wallace is the better QB because of his mobility. But either one can beat you in their hybrid WCO, if it's that. They're changing the offense, but to what exactly I can't tell. Maybe more of a power running game but with a WCO heart?

OL: Walter Jones is back at LT, but for how long? Rookie C/G Max Unger saw lots of time at OG and it looks like they plan on plugging him right in. They were good at opening holes for the runners, but not so good in pass pro, but that could just be rust.

RB: They're looking for a few good RBs because the only guy they've got that looks good is Julius Jones. Forsett and Duckett are both pluggers without the size or quickness to be starters. I don't know what the 'Hawks are thinking, but they could do better than this.

WR: The receiver to watch out for is TE John Carlson who has the size, speed, hands, concentration, and body control to become a real star. The primary WRs will be N. Burleson and Housh, though, and either one can burn a secondary. Not much behind them, though, as the 'Hawks tried 15+ guys at the position.

DL: They're staying with their 4-3 and the 9ers would be wise to game plan for their two DTs, Brandon Mebane and Cory Redding, as they were dominating when they were in there. Mebane, a Cal product, has phenomenal strength and Redding is a totally different player now that he's out of Detroit. You know DE Patrick Kearney already, and newcomer Nick Reed made a very strong showing on the other side.

LB: Just writing their names makes me queasy - MLB Lofa Tatupu, OLB Aaron Curry, OLB Leroy Hill. Curry will also see duty as a pass rusher on 3rd downs. Curry is very, very dangerous and can lay some serious hurt on very big guys. Although LT looked pretty good against them in his four carries, the Chargers could not run against the starting front seven with much success.

DBs: CB Ken Lucas got burned bad on a couple of plays and M. Trufant didn't really see much action. This unit didn't play well and the Chargers racked up 300+ yards. This is the weakest unit on defense.

Overall: It's hard to tell what the heck they're trying to do on offense, but the QB/receiver situation is pretty solid. After J. Jones, though, there isn't much, so I would put the heat to a suspect OL and disrupt the passing game with blitzes. On offense, I would attack their secondary as Lucas didn't look good at all and M. Trufant is too short to defense big WRs. The safties looked ordinary.

 

Panthers-Giants:

QB: Jake Delhomme looked very Warnerish as an immobile pocket passer and got the job done. Nothing spectacular, but solid. Josh McCown was erratic. If Jake gets injured, watch out below.

RB: DeAngelo Williams is a solid starting back and looked good on his six carries for 29 yards. J. Stewart didn't play, but Mike Goodson did and looked pretty good. They have three RBs who can get yardage.

OL: With Jordan Gross on one side and Jeff Otah on the other, this is an OL built for the running game. Nobody is going to overpower these guys and the G-men looked outclassed with the starters in.

WR: Neither Steve Smith nor M. Muhammad played, but  Dwayne Jarret did and looked decent in limited action. The surprise here are the hands on FB Brad Hoover. Look for him to get more balls thrown his way during the regular season.

DL: Pathetic. Nobody played well and the Giants just ran over them, literally. Even Giants QB D. Carr(formerly a Panthers QB) ran for double digits.  Julius Peppers and Everette Brown looked OK at DE, but were unable to get any serious pressure on the QBs. Of the DTs, Corvey Irvin and Marlon "Big Fave" Favorite looked the best, and neither was a starter. This is a bad situation.

LB: Remember Dan Conner from last year's draft? Well, he's putting the hurt to people at MLB in Carolina. He's a force and one of the few bright spots on defense. The rest looked like scrubs,

DBs: Rookie Sherrod Martin is looking very, very good at CB - he's got the size, closing speed, and great instincts. He was on my mock draft and I regret we didn't take him with that 2nd rounder - he could become a star. Everyone else was ordinary to bad. With the exception of Sherrod, this appears to be a weak unit.

Overall: The offense seems pretty solid with great RBs and good WRs, but if Jake goes down, McCown likely won't be able to carry the load. The defense was pretty bad and it looks as if they just don't have the personnel to turn it around. Given the division they're playing in, I see them coming in third behind the Saints and Falcons but ahead of Tampa Bay with an 8-8 record. No playoffs this year and the 9ers end up with a draft pick at 15-18. If Delhomme gets hurt, make that a 6-10 record with our draft pick at 13-16, which would make me a very happy camper.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.

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The Rams are looking dead in the water for the next couple of years. They should have torn things down and started over two years ago, instead they are starting the process now.

Miami looks like a tough team again this year but still has the same problem. Even when they dominate they don’t put up enough points to build a significant lead.

Jacksonville is my early pick for the worst team in the league. They have given up, Del Rio will be fired early the season and the team is devoid of any real leadership and limited talent. They remind of Erickson’s 49ers.

The Cowboys didn’t look like a playoff team. For the most part I thought the Raiders had control of both lines of scrimmage.

The Raiders looked frisky and are in a bad division. They should be on the upswing with Russell showing signs of being a decent QB. There offensive line looks mildly improved.

I’ve also seen the Bills-Bears game. Hard to judge because the Bills were playing their 2nd preseason game while the Bears were playing their first. Only thing I could gather was the Bills coaches were throwing a lot {expletive} on the wall hoping something would stick. It didn’t look like much was sticking.

Sorta the same conclusion about the Titans-Bucs game. Was the Titan’s 2nd game and they completely over matched the Bucs. The Bucs shouldn’t be good this year anyway, they tore down the team in the off season.

by bignerd on Aug 18, 2009 3:57 PM PDT reply actions  

Seattle isn't changing it's offense.

It remains WCO, but OC Greg Knapp plans to commit to the run to at least a 50/50 split rather than the 60/40 pass Mike Holmgren used to run.

LaDainian Tomlinson looked awful, though :)

Lucas wasn’t burned, but he did commit an unnecessary pass interference penalty on third down that kept a Chargers drive alive. Marcus Trufant didn’t suit up for the game as he is on the PUP list due to a minor back injury, and I disagree about his size being any hindrance (he’s 5’11 and has been fine covering #1 receivers). The depth is suspect though as Kelly Jennings looks more and more like a bust, and Josh Wilson is best as a great nickel corner and too small to be a consistent starter.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 18, 2009 4:32 PM PDT reply actions  

The commentators were all over Lucas.

I was listening to the team radio broadcast and they were all over Lucas for being out of position, playing the QBs eyes at the wrong time, etc. The comment on Trufant being too short came from them while discussing ARZ.

But they are certainly looking hard for someone to play behind Jones, so that explains the deviation from standard WCO fare. I was just surprised Knapp came out running so hard so often. But it’s that front seven that looks scary to me – no weak sisters in that group for sure.

What do you think about Seneca Wallace?

by MontanaPass on Aug 18, 2009 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wallace is pretty underrated.

Slowly but surely, he’s evolved from a guy everybody thought should be a WR to arguably the best backup QB in the NFL. He’s improved tremendously when it comes to decision making and has a lot more precision and touch on his passes, which led to his abnormally high TD:INT ratio. I wouldn’t say he’s as ridiculously accurate as Hasselbeck, and definitely does not have anywhere near the pocket presence. But I’m one of the few Seattle fans who wouldn’t mind having him being the stopgap starter after life without Matt.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 18, 2009 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

A question for you FF

Is Burleson really starting over Branch? I only ask because Branch is on my fantasy team so I want to trade him ASAP if he isn’t starting.

by Brendan Scolari on Aug 19, 2009 1:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh ok

A bit of an odd question, but do you like Branch over Duckett in fantasy? (Duckett is available)

by Brendan Scolari on Aug 19, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Definitely not.

Branch is a very good receiver when healthy but I expect Duckett’s role to be expanded beyond just short-yardage and goal-line. Housh and Carlson are probably going to hog all the big plays through the air.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 19, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I should mention that it is a .5 PPR league

But it sounds like you’re pretty confident that Duckett will be better.

by Brendan Scolari on Aug 20, 2009 1:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Best back-up in the NFL?

You know Michael Vick is in Philly, right?

by SportsChicken on Aug 20, 2009 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

No one...

… knows what Vick has to offer at this point in his career. How has the time off affected his ability to read and react with his arm (which wasn’t very good to begin with)? How has the time off affected him physically?

by sfgfan on Aug 20, 2009 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Jim Mora Jr. and Gregg Knapp were also his coaches.

by bignerd on Aug 20, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, because you can coach a quarterback into becoming inaccurate as hell, and having poor pocket presence.

It’s not their fault that Michael Vick was horrible.

PS, Greg Knapp was also the coach the last time the 49ers were respectable on offense, with Jeff Garcia.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 20, 2009 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I remember Knapp, he is about average. He has a tendency to forget his offenses strength for a few quarters at a time (you’ll see). Jeff Garcia looked great when Knapp remembered it was his job to get T.O. the damn ball.

by bignerd on Aug 20, 2009 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Gosh thank you for bringing that up

No OC has ever annoyed me as much as Knapp. I was constantly screaming at the TV for him to get TO the damn ball. Drives me insane still.

"Bar None!" - William Floyd

by maveric_87 on Aug 22, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mike Vick sucks

I really don’t want to get into this.
It has already been discussed too many times.

by SportsChicken on Aug 20, 2009 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have aruged that he sucks

But I have always come up short.

I don’t remember if it was on here or somewhere else but some guy totally pwned me.

by SportsChicken on Aug 21, 2009 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like this.

Nothing better than an admission of defeat.

I also, think that Mike Vick is not a good qb.

The cake is a lie.

by Sultan of Seitan on Aug 22, 2009 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Eh

The dude had all sorts of statistical analysis.

by SportsChicken on Aug 22, 2009 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Gonna be a rough year for the niners

If they can’t get to the QB’s in this division, they can make bad teams look sensational. All we need is consistent pressure and if we don’t get it, I hope heads will roll!!

Optimist Prime, and your favorite adjitator
Is this what it's all about Manny?

by rlott#42 on Aug 18, 2009 8:41 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm waiting for the blitz packages to show up.

I think that’s the only way to get any real QB pressure on a guy like Warner. He was reacting really well to the Steeler’s blitzing, though, and burned them a couple of times. The LTs of all division opponents may be the weak points to attack – the Lambs have a rookie LT likely to replace Alex Barron, Mike Gandy didn’t look good for the Cards, and Walter Jones in Seattle is coming off an injury and may not hold up over the full season. Parys Haralson just might have a breakout year abusing LTs. And getting blitzed constantly from the blindside can make any QB nervous.

by MontanaPass on Aug 19, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Is Parys Haralson a good edge-rusher?

I thought he gained his sacks from more traditional LB blitzes.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 19, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Rams aren't changing their defense as far as I'm aware

Spagnuolo always ran a 4-3 with the Giants, so I don’t see why they would.

by Brendan Scolari on Aug 19, 2009 1:41 AM PDT reply actions  

Sounded like a Nolan hybrid to me.

They had Chris Long playing OLB (badly) along with Witherspoon and lined up with three dlinemen a lot in the beginning. Even the commentators remarked on how bad a fit their personnel was for the 3-4. So what the heck are they doing if not implementing some kind of 3-4? An experiment?

by MontanaPass on Aug 19, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Chris Long, a 3-4 OLB?

LOL.

Good luck with that, Lambs.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 19, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't know

Bu I’m almost positive they’re not implementing anything but a straight up 4-3. Maybe it was just a package they were trying out?

by Brendan Scolari on Aug 19, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fixed
After Including J. Jones, though, there isn’t much

by Brendan Scolari on Aug 19, 2009 1:45 AM PDT reply actions  

He looked pretty good in the beginning of the game.

Maybe it was because Owen Schmitt was laying down some epic blocks from the FB position, though.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 19, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

He might have

I’m not very high on him as a player in general though.

by Brendan Scolari on Aug 19, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I'm not jumping for joy, either.

At least he’s versatile, I guess. Will probably be a decent guy during the season until we can hopefully draft someone like Jonathan Dwyer.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 19, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

can a block be epic?

I think only if it was a clutch block that lead to a winning TD

Go 49ers

by iaalexeeff on Aug 19, 2009 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd still like to know who's a worse starting RB in the whole NFC than Jones

Hightower maybe, until Beanie takes over. It sounds like Seahawks fans think Jones is passable or something. He’s an awful top RB.

by Brendan Scolari on Aug 20, 2009 2:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Great pass-blocker and receiver, average to below average rusher. Cheap contract.

He’s not a game breaker but at least he doesn’t average 2 YPC like Hightower. It’s Duckett I’m more excited about, though.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 20, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

"Great pass-blocker and receiver"

No. No he is neither of those. He is decent at both and a very poor runner. If he was as you say he would be a decent starter.

by Brendan Scolari on Aug 20, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, he's a great pass-blocker and receiver.

This really isn’t debatable. He absolutely stonewalls the blitz and is great at turning quick flat passes into positive gains. Very poor runners don’t average 4.4 YPC.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 20, 2009 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Okay then

Who is he better than in the NFC besides Hightower (among starters)? If he really is all these things he shouldn’t be 15th out of 16 in the conference.

And believe me, I’m not just making random judgements on Julius Jones. I watched every game he played with the Cowboys, I know how he plays. There’s no way he’s a “great” receiver. Tomlinson is/was a great receiver, Julius Jones is decent and every once in a while will have a big gain. If he is an average runner, once again I’d like to know who is worse in the conference. We’re back to the Shaun Hill argument, you can’t be one of the worst at your position among starters and be average.

by Brendan Scolari on Aug 20, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think we have different perspectives of 'great'.

Tomlinson is arguably the best complete back who’s a threat as a receiver in the last decade. I don’t hold Jones to that standard. He’s the type of guy who will be reliably open as a check-down option and get the first down, and good on screens and the like. He’s consistently good at that.

I’d say overall, Jones is better than Hightower, Ryan Grant, Pierre Thomas, and Earnest Graham in the NFC. Indeed, that’s a short list, but because Julius isn’t termed ‘better’ than many others doesn’t mean he can’t be productive.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 20, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

True

Just because he isn’t very good doesn’t mean he can’t be productive. In that offense (depending on the health of some key players) he can put up some decent numbers.

I don’t really understand your perspective as far as greatness. Being “reliably open as a check down receiver” isn’t great. Being great means you are basically the absolute best at what you do. Adrian Peterson is a great pure runner. Frank Gore is good, but he’s not great, if that makes sense.

Also, I didn’t really think about Ryan Grant, but yor right that Jones is probably better. He’s certainly a better receiver and blocker. I think Pierre Thomas will prove to be much better than Jones this year though. Also, Earnest Graham isn’t the starter for the Bucs, Derrick Ward is.

by Brendan Scolari on Aug 20, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

To me, great =/= elite.

Just a crappy analogy to get you to see my perspective: Adrian Peterson and Brandon Jacobs have stone hands as receivers and are crappy blockers, but make up for it with their fantastic rushing ability. Julius Jones is a crappy rusher, but a great to dominant pass-blocker and fairly good receiver. You’d be surprised at how many RBs can’t do either, or any especially well. Obviously, one would take the back who’s the best rusher, but these ancillary qualities can be a redeeming factor. Pierre Thomas isn’t any good, he just looks better than he is because Reggie Bush is a worthless RB. Although I forgot about Ward, I still wouldn’t give him the benefit of the doubt because he ran behind an elite o-line and was pretty bad without Jacobs.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 20, 2009 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm making a fanpost about this at Field Gulls

Sorry if that bothers you but this overrating of Julius Jones by Seahawks fans is bugging the hell out of me. ;-)

by Brendan Scolari on Aug 20, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Be my guest.

:)

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 20, 2009 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Be careful you may be banned from the site

That John Morgan is ridiculous

Optimist Prime, and your favorite adjitator
Is this what it's all about Manny?

by rlott#42 on Aug 22, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Reggie Bush is a worthless RB

I remember that before he was drafted people were wondering if he even fit in the NFL. Some thought he could have gone the WR route, and many thought he could stick at RB. Do you think he fits in the NFL? It’s just kinda funky that a player with all that talent (of course he was playing for a VERY good, and well-coached, SC team) has landed in the NFL with quite the thud.

by sfgfan on Aug 21, 2009 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

He does fit

You just need a 2 RB system were the other guy takes the hand offs up the middle.

by bignerd on Aug 21, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's like a highly drafted Jerious Norwood/Leon Washington/Darren Sproles luxury scatback.

Good receiver and returner, definitely not worth his salt as a runner.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 21, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's better than them all on special teams

But you nailed that kid right on the head. I bet plenty of niner fans wanted him. I still think he should put on 10 lbs. and quit running scared and he can produce. Imagine him with Peyton M.

Optimist Prime, and your favorite adjitator
Is this what it's all about Manny?

by rlott#42 on Aug 22, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought E. Brown looked good

He had a sack and showed a good first step, great body lean around the corner and a wicked spin move. Also, Carolina had 5 sacks, which is not what I’d characterize as pathetic. Finally, Peppers is still on that time, right? Agree with the rest though.

by kiyoshi on Aug 19, 2009 12:53 PM PDT reply actions  

Brown's spin move is a thing of beauty.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 19, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Should have a niner jersey while he's spinnin

Number (site decorum) up of the draft, if not number 2

Optimist Prime, and your favorite adjitator
Is this what it's all about Manny?

by rlott#42 on Aug 19, 2009 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm confused

You think having a first round pick next year instead of Brown is a bad thing?

by Brendan Scolari on Aug 20, 2009 1:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's...

… definitely a bad thing for this year. Only time will tell if it’ll be a good or bad thing for the future.

by sfgfan on Aug 20, 2009 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Brown..

… was supposedly one of the (if not THE) best pure pass rusher in the draft, though. So you kind of have to understand people’s gripes. Just gotta move on at some point, though.

by sfgfan on Aug 20, 2009 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

He's only 6'0"

I thought that’s why he slipped, because they thought that would hurt his pass rushing ability. But moving up likely at least 20 picks in the draft, I don’t see how that could be bad. Especially because last year was a weak draft. It just means you have to be patient to reap the rewards.

by Brendan Scolari on Aug 20, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Brown

I think he also slipped because people questioned his ability to drop back into coverage. Maybe they saw something in his workouts that fans aren’t privy to.

I don’t think his height should have been THAT big of a deal, considering most teams were looking at him more as a 3-4 OLB. He had decent weight for that position and his frame was built well, I just don’t understand why scouts were so hung up on two or three inches in height.

by sfgfan on Aug 20, 2009 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just spitballing,

maybe it was because he played DE all the time in college rather than hybrid at OLB like some other pass-rushers did, and maybe his trademark skill, his pass-rushing moves (especially the spin) wouldn’t translate as well if rushing as a linebacker.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 20, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

For this year

YESSSS!!!!

Optimist Prime, and your favorite adjitator
Is this what it's all about Manny?

by rlott#42 on Aug 20, 2009 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

BREAKING!!!!

Seattle Seahawks offensive linemen Walter Jones and cornerback Marcus Trufant will be out an extending period of time according to ESPN. Head coach Jim Mora Jr says the Trufant injury is “not unlike” the injury that cost Hasselbach most of 2008. And Walter Jones is going to have to have another surgery as soon as Friday according to team officials. It is extremely likely that both will be placed on the PUP list when the season begins which means they will miss at least the first 6 games of the regular season. Mora said that he remains “hopeful” that both will play at some point this season.

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 19, 2009 11:17 PM PDT reply actions  

PUP list

If they passed their initial training camp physical they can not be placed on the PUP list.

by David Fucillo on Aug 19, 2009 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Neither have even practiced this training camp so i am not sure they passed those physicals. The story is on ESPN and they mentioned that. Here is the link

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 19, 2009 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

practice

According to Rotoworld, Jones did practice some…not a lot. He would need to be medically cleared to practice, so that’s my assumption for passing the physical.

Trufant though is already on the PUP list.

by David Fucillo on Aug 20, 2009 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

Neither have practiced all training camp long so i am not sure if they passed the physical. Go to ESPN and you will find the story .

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 19, 2009 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

OUCH

What does Fearless Frog have to say about this?

by SportsChicken on Aug 20, 2009 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

It sucks.

I knew in the back of my mind not to count on Jones being around, but possibly losing Trufant for an extended period of time is a bad thing, because that means Kelly Jennings gets to take the field more often.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 20, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh

And what does this mean for Matt Hasselbeck?
(I want to draft him as my No.2 fantasy QB)

by SportsChicken on Aug 20, 2009 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

As long as the rest of the OL...

… can stay healthy, I think Hasselbeck will be fine. If another injury or two hits that group, though, Hasselbeck (and the Seahawks) may be in trouble.

by sfgfan on Aug 21, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, then the real trouble begins.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 21, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe I should go another direction....

My league awards big points to QBs so I was kind of hoping to land Hass late and get a lot in return….maybe I’ll target another underrated QB.

Thoughts on Joe Flacco?

by SportsChicken on Aug 21, 2009 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd take...

… a shot at Hasselbeck until something bad happens. The 49ers were relatively injury-free last season, so you never really know if the Seahawks will actually go down in flames.

by sfgfan on Aug 22, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sean Locklear.

Good pass-blocker, inconsistent run-blocker, decent guy probably but not dominant like Walt.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 21, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Take Trufant and Jones off the Seahawks and you have another 5 win season.

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 19, 2009 11:18 PM PDT reply actions  

I don't know about that

Not looking good for them so far though.

by Brendan Scolari on Aug 20, 2009 1:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah.

Calling it another 5-win season is a bit drastic.

Jones does hurt, but one guy on the offensive line (even if he’s your best guy) shouldn’t hurt that badly if the other starters are decent and the backup can pickup the slack.

Trufant is definitely a key player on that defense, though.

by sfgfan on Aug 20, 2009 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

FF

Just of curiosity, would you consider Trufant the Seahawks’ best defensive player?

Go 49ers

by iaalexeeff on Aug 20, 2009 6:36 PM PDT reply actions  

No, although he's up there.

Brandon Mebane is a dominant force at DT, Patrick Kerney the same at DE, although the latter’s value diminishes with each injury. Trufant is unquestionably the best player in the secondary though, as evidenced when he shut down Randy Moss last season.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 20, 2009 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Trufant is unquestionably the best player in the secondary though

This.

by sfgfan on Aug 21, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

No

I would consider Lofa Tatupu(is that how you spell it?) Seattle’s best defensive player. But their secondary isn’t that good AT ALL. So missing the best CB on the team for an extended period of time isn’t good. Also a bad pass rush and horrible secondary is not a good combination. And Patrick Kerney is regressing every year. At least with the 49ers lack of pass rush we have a good secondary to hold up coverage. When the strength of your defensive is two LB’s one which is a rookie that means you don’t have a good defense. Regarding Jones. Well that means Willis and a rookie are going to have to start leaving Hassebach unprotected in his blind side, as an unmobile QB that spells injury to me. Also their passing game consists of timing. Having two unreliable lineman on the weakside spells disaster. Besides Julias Jones is one of the worse pass protecting RB’s in all of the NFL.

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 20, 2009 8:04 PM PDT reply actions  

.
I would consider Lofa Tatupu(is that how you spell it?) Seattle’s best defensive player.

Possibly, he certainly has the resume.

But their secondary isn’t that good AT ALL. So missing the best CB on the team for an extended period of time isn’t good.

Fair enough, seeing as they were the worst pass-defense in the NFL and worst in franchise history last season. But with a competent pass-rush in 2007, that secondary was one of the league’s best.


 Also a bad pass rush and horrible secondary is not a good combination. And Patrick Kerney is regressing every year.

Patrick Kerney regressing every year? 14.5 sacks in his first season with Seattle, #1 in the NFC and runner-up Defensive Player of the Year. 5 sacks in 7 or so games last season, an even better rate than 2007 until Barry Sims or whoever tore Kerney’s shoulder off.

At least with the 49ers lack of pass rush we have a good secondary to hold up coverage.

The 49ers don’t have a good secondary.

When the strength of your defensive is two LB’s one which is a rookie that means you don’t have a good defense.

Seattle has the makings of one of the fiercest front 7s in the entire NFL.

Regarding Jones. Well that means Willis and a rookie are going to have to start leaving Hassebach unprotected in his blind side, as an unmobile QB that spells injury to me.

Um, Sean Locklear and Ray Willis are going to the left and right tackles, respectively. Neither are rookies.

Also their passing game consists of timing. Having two unreliable lineman on the weakside spells disaster.

Sean Locklear and Rob Sims, the LT and LG, are good pass-blockers.

Besides Julias Jones is one of the worse pass protecting RB’s in all of the NFL.

If by worst you mean best. Ironically, the only noteworthy blown block he had last season was against Manny Lawson during the first of Leonard Weaver’s touchdowns, but he absolutely knocked blitzers on their asses almost every other time.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 20, 2009 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

I laid out below exactly why they won’t have a good pass rush this season

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 21, 2009 1:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Which is...why?

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 21, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

I laid it out for you. Read my posts man. I don’t want to have to continue to repeat myself. first off replacing Julian Peterson with Cory Redding can’t help the pass rush. Can it?

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 21, 2009 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cory Redding is a DE, Peterson an OLB.

What’s actually helping the pass-rush is that Leroy Hill, who had 7.5 sacks in 8 games starting in his rookie season, will be able to be the primary pass-rushing OLB again. Redding is now occupying the DE spot Patrick Kerney had, so he’ll face the double teams with the TE and will be good stopping the run as he is stronger and larger. Kerney will be now lined up across the left tackles, ensuring he gets more 1 on 1 matchups.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 21, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Reports are that Dallas got rid of Jones for two reasons. 1) They had Barber and 2) he could not block worth a damn, besides i saw on many occasions him miss blocks last season

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 21, 2009 1:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, and Barber sure did light the world on fire without Jones.

Oh, wait.

And you’re obviously incorrect about Jones miss blocks, because that simply isn’t true.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 21, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Please post a link or something from scouts that say Jones is even a decent blocker. Considering you are questioning me on this i would ask for some evidence because i could be wrong, i said could be wroing

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 21, 2009 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I actually tried,

but it’s hard to find highlights with a blitz-pickup by an RB. I’ll go nose around the NFL replay cutter thing on NFL.com

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 21, 2009 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because i do like Julias Jones. He is a Notre Dame boy!! If you could prove me wrong i would appreciate it because i don’t want to dawg on a fellow Irish alumn

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 21, 2009 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

If i remember correctly Sims can be credited with allowing more sacks in an 7 game span last season then any other guard in the league, but i could be wrong. Locklear is good, that i agree.

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 21, 2009 1:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

I will take Nate Clements, Dre’ Bly, Terrell Brown, Shawntae Spencer, Dashon Goldsen, Michael Lewis and Reggie Smith over that secondary. LOL even Eric Green who will be our 4th corner at best would either start or play in the nickel for the Seahawks.

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 21, 2009 1:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

The rookie i was speaking about was Unger, maybe i could have worded that better.

And yes 33 year old pass rushers with a history of injury problems and possibly on the downturn of their career cannot be counted on for many sacks. He is declining in health and in age.

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 21, 2009 1:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

LOL even Eric Green who will be our 4th corner at best would either start or play in the nickel for the Seahawks.

If that were truly the case, he wouldn’t have been cut by the Dolphins.

by sfgfan on Aug 21, 2009 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Of even more importantly...

… he wouldn’t have been available for the 49ers in the first place.

by sfgfan on Aug 21, 2009 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

I doubt that Green as young as he is has lost that much in just 9 months! Remember he did start 9 games for the NFC CHAMPION Arizona Cardinals. The better point is. Name 3 better Seattle Cornerbacks then Eric Green.

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 21, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Did you miss the...

… reason why he started only 9 games? He started missing assignments and eventually got benched for DRC. After that, he quickly went from being a nickel back to being inactive by the end of the season (a span of 7 weeks, no?).

by sfgfan on Aug 21, 2009 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Josh Wilson and Ken Lucas are easily better,

even that scrub Kelly Jennings is.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 21, 2009 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bly has always been bad, Brown and Spencer are unproven,

Nate Clements was one of the NFL’s worst starting CBs, Lewis is an average SS, Goldsen wasn’t good enough to beat Mark Roman and was a converted CB.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 21, 2009 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

U serious about Clements?? I take it your a diehard Hawks fan? Only been on this site for about a month, but i am starting to believe you have some homerism involvded. But hey i may too so that’s neither here nor there. You said in another post that Spencer is unproven? I challenge you to look at his 2005-2007 stats and still say he is unproven. The only question is his health. Oh and i wouldn’t trade 2 footballs and a jockstrap for that Kelly Jennings dude

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 21, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

You don't...

…. have to be a diehard Seahawks fan to see that Clements is far from a elite CB. It takes a 49ers fan to believe he’s even good. As I mentioned somewhere below:

Clements I’ve mentioned above already: he’s a good corner, but far from great. Tackles and PD’s aren’t everything to a CB. If I’m not mistaken, Clements was amongst the league leaders in yards and TDs given up by CBs last season.

by sfgfan on Aug 21, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sims played 1 game last season before tearing his pectoral muscle and being placed on IR.

He was a great pass-blocking guard in 2007, allowed very little pressure up the middle.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 21, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have no idea where you came up with Seattle having the “makings” of one of the best front 7’s in the NFL. Just for pure shyts and giggles what do you think of the acquisition of Cory Redding? Is he one of these front 7 you speak of. What about Cole?

By the way i am impressed by the Seahawks linebacking corp of Totupu, Hill and Curry. But what about the other 8 defensive players?

The 49ers defense will be in the top 10 this season, mark my words. Possibly top five, but they may be a stretch. I made the point that Eric Green, who the Niners recently signed, would either start or play nickel for the hawks’ and i stick by that comment. the Seahawks secondary will be one of the worse in the NFL is Trufant misses an extended period of time. Also a linebacking corp consisting of Harrelson, Willis, Spikes and Lawson is pretty darn good. One of the deepest cornerback rotations in the entire NFL (Clements, Bly, Brown, Spencer, Green and yes Lambert). We do have questions in the front 3, that cannot be understated. But we do have Justin Smith who besides being a good all around linemen does get his sacks as well. Remember in the 3-4 we are not asking much of the front 3 in terms of sacks. That is left up to the linebackers and i believe Haralson is good for double digit sacks. We must utilize Willis more in the pass rush scheme because i have no doubt he could rack up some sacks too. The wildcard is Manny Lawson, will he break out this season in a scheme he thinks fits his talents real well? Or will he continue to struggle within that sector of the game? I am obviously hoping for that ladder.

My point is that the 49ers may have one or two questions on defense but the Seahawks have a lot more questions. 1) Will Kerney regain his old form? 2) Can Curry step right in like Willis did for the niners a few seasons ago? 3) Can the secondary hold up at all? 4) will the combination of a lack of pass rush and a less then talented secondary equal disaster?

In reality #3 on my list of questions could be 4 different questions because every single member of that unit has not proven they belong in an NFL starting lineup. NOT ONE!!!

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 21, 2009 2:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

How about...

…. consolidating all these responses into one comment?

by sfgfan on Aug 21, 2009 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure if this is worth responding to.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 21, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

The 49ers don’t have a good secondary.

Anyone who thinks Seattle has a bad secondary and thinks the 49ers have a good one in comparison is delusional. I don’t know if Seattle has a good secondary, but if they don’t the 49ers definitely don’t, either.

by sfgfan on Aug 21, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

“I don’t knoq if Seattle has a good secondary” doesn’t that make your point pretty shaky? As it is i do believe the 49ers have a good secondary. They have real good depth and yes playmakers. But again we will wait to see how it plays out this season. But delusional? That’s a little overboard man.

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 21, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

My point is...

… I think the 49ers secondary is weaker than Seattle’s. Bodies does not equate to depth. If Shawntae Spencer was good or dependable, he’d be a starter and Dre Bly wouldn’t even be here. If Tarrell Brown was definitely good, he wouldn’t be competing with a veteran that other teams have shunned and HAD to sign at the veteran minimum to touch any football field. Outside of Clements (who isn’t an elite corner by any means, good but far from being elite), the 49ers CBs are very shaky. Add that to the fact that they’ll have a first year starter at FS who has injury questions every season and a SS who can’t cover if his life depended on it, the 49ers secondary is DEFINITELY suspect.

by sfgfan on Aug 21, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Questions Remain

And yes you can say “suspect” but if they all put it together it has the making of a good secondary. Green was signed as an insurance policy and possibly just possibly to be our 4th corner back. Injury issues regarding Goldsen? Yes!! But he is healthy right now and has the makings to be a real good safety. I think people underestimate the value of Nate Clements, no he is not a true shtudown corner but he is a very good all around player, that’s hard to deny.

Now comparing the 49ers secondary to the Seahawks, or anyone in the NFC west for that matter. How about we do that?

Seattle Corner backs: Ken Lucas, Travis Fisher, Josh Wilson, Kelly Jennings, and Kevin Hobbs

Seattle Safeties: Deon Grant, Brian Russell, Jordan Babineaux and Jamar Adams.

Lets size up that unit shall we? First off Ken Lucas was absolutely horrible last season and was kicked to the street like a $5.00 prostitute. 50 tackles, 2int and only 10PD. Was torched by Arizona in the playoffs.

Travis Fisher: 5PD in 14 games for the god awful Detroit Lions, before that he couldn’t even stick on a horrible Rams secondary. A scrub if i have ever seen one

Josh Wilson: Granted this guy has talent, was a very good value pick in the 2nd round a couple seasons ago but has yet to fulfill his expectations. Did have 76 tackles, 4int and 3ff last season but again only 9 pd was beat multiple times, even by 49ers and Rams receivers last season. His potential remains so i will reserve judgement as he is only heading into his 3rd season

Kelly Jennings: The talent remains but only has 1 int in 48 career games, not much of a playmaker, but he can turn into a good NFL player with some more experience

Deon Grant: Without Trufant by far the best Seattle player of the unit. 23 career INT and has not missed a game in 9 seasons. But there must be a reason Carolina and Jacksonville didn’t think too much of him to let him walk after 3 years in each city. But overall a pretty good player, nothing special. Just pretty good.

Brian Russell: A starter for most of his career Russell had a very good stint with the Vikings but after signing a free agent contract with Cleveland he bombed out and was released after just two seasons. He did regain to old form last season, to some extent, but his lack of coverage ability, much like Michael Lewis, does indeed worry some Seattle insiders.

After going through the Seahawks secondary. I will admit they won’t be one of the worse in the league, but there does remain multiple question and they will be in the bottom third this season

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 21, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

And yes you can say "suspect" but if they all put it together it has the making of a good secondary.

Which was my whole point to begin with. You claimed that the 49ers had a good secondary, not that they potentially have one. Huge difference.

The Seahawks definitely have question marks too (especially if Trufant is missing), but as I mentioned above: I don’t know if they’re good. I just believe that they’re better than the 49ers right now. The season can bring many new “truths,” and for all we know the likes of Brown/Spencer/Bly will fall flat on their faces while Lucas and Fisher have career years. Heck, it could happen the other way around too, but I feel that the experience in Seattle’s secondary make them a safer bet to be an average secondary.

by sfgfan on Aug 21, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

49ers secondary:

Nate Clements: 63tackles, 9pd and 2int. Not great statistics for a multi million dollar free agent, but Clements does a great job flying around the field and is not a true one dimensional corner. Would like to see more play making from him though. He needs to step up and earn the big bucks

Dre’ Bly: I am not sure if he was a scapegoat for the Broncos collapse last season but he has looked good since joining the 49ers and has been pretty solid in his NFL career. Did have 62 tackles and 2int last season. He can be considered a playmaker, 40 career INT’s

Terrell Brown: He is a major wildcard, this guy has loads of talent and has performed when given a chance. 30 tackles and 2int last season, i would have no problem if he were named the starter ahead of Bly later in the season or takes over next year. He will be a really good NFL corner.

Shawntae Spencer: Injuries have obviously derailed his growth as a player, when healthy he is a good nickel back, but nothing more. He did have 83 tackles, 19pd and 4int in his last “full season” those are all-pro numbers. He just needs to stay healthy and will be a solid contributor.

Eric Green: Already went over him many times on this thread, enough is enough.

Terrell Lambert: Rookie from Notre Dame, he won’t make much of an impact this season. Too far down on the depth chart, but he has a chance to be a steal for the 49ers. Was really good in college.

Michael Lewis: coverage questions obviously remain. But overall Lewis is a very fine safety. Good enough to start for great Eagles teams of the past. He has capped out in terms of potential but a really good player nonetheless. 96 tackles last season and 4 fumble recoveries.

Dashon Goldsen: Another wildcard, he has always looked good in practice and training camp but now needs to bring it between the hashes. There remains no question regarding his talent. If he fulfills his potential, which remains in question, there is not cap on what he can do.

Mark Roman: Not a starter in the NFL in any way shape or form. A true weak link of this secondary. Let’s see if he can thrive in the nickel safety position.

Reggie Smith: Loads of talent and potential. Young enough to make “rookie” mistakes so i am not sure where he stands for the 2009 season but he does have what it takes. If the Broncos game is any indication, which i am not sure it is, then the niners have a gem in Smith.

SImply put the Niners secondary is MUCH better then the Hawks secondary. I challenge you to rebut this claim!

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 21, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

"SImply put the Niners secondary is MUCH better then the Hawks secondary. I challenge you to rebut this claim!"

Sure.

Marcus Trufant > Nate Clements
Ken Lucas > Dre Bly
Josh Wilson > > > Tarell Brown
Kelly Jennings > Shawtae Spencer
Deon Grant > Dashon Goldson
Michael Lewis > Brian Russell.

A rudimentary look at it, but seems fair enough.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 21, 2009 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Much better?

I think the 49ers have a lot more potential, but youth will do that to you. This is especially true if you discount Trufant’s presence in Seattle’s secondary. There’s nothing saying he’s going to miss the entire season, and as I mentioned above, Seattle is a lot more likely to be at least “average” than the 49ers are.

Clements I’ve mentioned above already: he’s a good corner, but far from great. Tackles and PD’s aren’t everything to a CB. If I’m not mistaken, Clements was amongst the league leaders in yards and TDs given up by CBs last season. Before the injury, I believe Trufant is the better between the two. Heck, when Trufant returns from injury, he’ll likely still be the better between the two.

You keep spouting that Bly is a playmaker, but if he TRULY was a playmaker, wouldn’t the rest of the league have recognized this? This guy signed for the LEAGUE MINIMUM because there was no competition for his services. You mean to tell me that no other team in the league needed a starting corner? Heck, you’re trying to tell me that there is no other team in the league that thought $1M dollars would be worth it for even a nickelback that is supposedly a playmaker? I’m not going to say Bly is done, but he’s a lot more likely to be done than he is to break out.

Call it a difference in philosophy or opinion, but I believe Seattle’s experience is more likely to be “average” than the 49ers “potential” in their youth.

by sfgfan on Aug 21, 2009 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hate to sound like a homer,

but Trufant had quietly become one of the best corners in the NFL, capable of shutting down some of the best WRs in the league. Clements, while once great, has severely dropped off since the contract, and the numbers support that.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 21, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Clemons numbers also don’t match to his Buffalo days because he plays in good weather, against much better receivers on a team that’s had a poorer / non-existent pass rush.

by bignerd on Aug 21, 2009 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

That still doesn't change the fact that they are inexcusably bad,

even without factoring in his absurd contract.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 21, 2009 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Seahawks just lost their security blanket

Looks like Walter Jones is going under the knife for a second time this offseason and will miss the rest of the year. So much for keeping Hasselback healthy…….

Niner Madman
"The Voice of Reason"

by NinerMadman on Aug 20, 2009 8:59 PM PDT reply actions  

It was arthroscopic 'exploratory' surgery, he's already gone through it today, the prognosis said he was fine, and is not out for the year.

He’ll likely be back shortly before midseason, if he’s going to ever play again.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 20, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Seattle’s offensive line is now going to consist of Na’shon Goddard, Mansfield Wrotto, Chris Spencer, Rob Sims/Ray Willis and Sean Locklear. Good luck Hasselbach.

The starting secondary will now consist of Ken Lucas and Travis Fisher or Josh Wilson at corner. With Brian Russell and Deion Grant at safety. Good luck stopping any passing game. Especially considering They might not get ANY pass rush!!!

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 20, 2009 9:15 PM PDT reply actions  

I lol'd at Hasselbach.

Starting line from left to right:

Sean Locklear, Rob Sims, Chris Spencer, Max Unger/Mansfield Wrotto, and Ray Willis.

And I don’t understand why you say they aren’t going to have any pass-rush, despite the fact that they’ve clearly made moves that suggest otherwise.

Also, please use the reply function.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 20, 2009 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kerney had five sacks and missed the final 9 games last season, he is also in his 12th season, so you can expect a deep decline in his productivity. Lawrence Jackson, Baraka Adkins, Darryl Tapp and Craig Terrill combined for 9 sacks. Former cal standout Brandon Mebane did have 5.5 sacks and is going to be a pretty good player. Aaron Curry wasn’t drafted to go after the QB and will not rack up many sacks as a pro. Leroy Hill and Lofa had one sack combined and are not considered pass rushers. They also traded their best sack artist in Julian Peterson to the Lions for the joke that is Cory Redding.

What moves did they make that suggests otherwise? They traded their top pass rusher for an underachieving defensive tackle. And Signed Colin Cole who has 3.5 sacks over 5 seasons and is clearly as run stuffer at 330 pounds And once again Aaron Curry is not a pass rusher!! So i don’t think they made one single move to improve the pass rush. In reality they subtracted from that with the trade of Peterson.

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 21, 2009 1:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Is our O-Line gonna protect our qb's this year

Despite Hassleback being hurt last year, they haven’t given up as many sacks as the niners so let’s worry about our O-Line

Optimist Prime, and your favorite adjitator
Is this what it's all about Manny?

by rlott#42 on Aug 20, 2009 11:21 PM PDT reply actions  

True

Raye has that clock buzzing on Smith every 3 seconds.

by bignerd on Aug 21, 2009 12:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

It is not if we have a horrible offensive line. Actually it is pretty good and darn talented. Hill and Smith need to learn to get rid of the ball quicker. Many of those sacks can be contributed to that. In fact in the first preseason game 3 sacks can be contributed to Hill and Smith holding onto the ball too long and Keasey whiffing on another. Rachel, Staley, Heitman, Baas, Snyder and Smith(when/if healthy) are all pretty darn good players

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 21, 2009 1:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

It is not if we have a horrible offensive line. Actually it is pretty good and darn talented.

Considering pretty much the same line (because Snyder appears to be the starter at RT for now) gave up a ridiculous amount of sacks last season, I can’t believe you’d say it’s pretty good. That’s flat out homerism at it’s finest. The only players that can even be considered “solid” right now are Heitmann and Staley. Rachal needs to show a little more before people should be ready to say he’s a solid starter. Baas is questionable, which is why the 49ers STILL haven’t extended him. Snyder has shown to be nothing more than a journey-man jack-of-all-trades-expert-of-none kind of offensive lineman so far. If you think Seattle has question marks without Jones, the 49ers have plenty of question marks with all their starters healthy.

I’m not saying they suck, but it’s ridiculous to think they’re “pretty good”.

by sfgfan on Aug 21, 2009 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

How many of the sacks can be contributed to the QB’s holding onto the ball too loing? There must be a reason why the 49ers went with the 3 second approach during training camp. I think they viewed the game films and came to the same conclusion most of us have. The QB’s need to get rid of the ball quicker. So you would expect an offensive lineman to stop an oncoming pass rush for what? 5 seconds? 6 seconds? 7 seconds? or however long it took O’Sullivan or Hill to get rid of the ball last season? I suggest you watch a couple games and check it out before drawing any more conclusions. Yes the 49ers offensive line is pretty good. If Shaun Hill releases the ball quicker this season you can expect those sack numbers to go down at least 30 percent.

by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 21, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

As I mentioned below...

… I understand Martz’ scheme had a lot to do with the system, but blaming the entire thing on him is ridiculous. Yes, the 49ers are going to give up less sacks this season (it’s almost a given). How much less is still yet to be seen, and deeming them good before they show that is premature.

by sfgfan on Aug 21, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

plus Mike Martz John Madden system

Optimist Prime, and your favorite adjitator
Is this what it's all about Manny?

by rlott#42 on Aug 21, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Martz system or not...

… don’t you think people should wait until the season starts to play out before deeming the offensive line to be “pretty good”?

by sfgfan on Aug 21, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

This.

The line could still improve over last season and still be one of the worst starting units.

"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."

by Fearless Frog on Aug 21, 2009 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Eh

If the QBs can get the ball out within 3 seconds there shouldn’t be too many problems.

I’m pretty sure the line can hold up for 3 seconds….if they can’t, well then, we’re screwed.

by SportsChicken on Aug 21, 2009 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

So far...

… the QBs still haven’t shown they can get rid of the ball quick enough.

by sfgfan on Aug 22, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Trade Tickets to 49ers vs Rams

Greetings NinersNation!
I’m trying to find tickets to the 49ers vs. Rams game. I’m a Raiders season ticket holder with truly premuim seats to trade…Sec114, Row 11, aisle seats 1 and 2. You can see them here.
Choose any game you want:
Broncos on Sept 27
Jets on Oct 25
Chiefs on Nov 15
Bengals on Nov 22
Redskins on Dec 13
Ravens on Jan 3

If any of you are interested in trading your good seats, please let me know.
Best of luck, Niner fans!

Lived in LA during the Rams and Raiders days. Now based in NorCal, I am still a die hard Rams fan and Raiders season ticket holder.

by CoachConnors on Aug 21, 2009 3:53 PM PDT reply actions  

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