Defense Wins Championships! Now Fix The Offense.
by MontanaPass on Sep 15, 2009 12:45 PM PDT
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Congratulations to the 49ers and Coach Singletary on beating the defending NFC champions at home and shutting down one of the most prolific offenses in the NFL! This was no mean feat, and the bulk of the credit must go to the defense. They played a magnificent game and all phases excelled. The D-line, and especially Justin Smith and Issac Sopoaga, played the kind of game we all love to see - Soap was tossing people around and J. Smith made Warner's life miserable. Smith gets my game ball for coming through in the fourth quarter to save the game.
Patrick Willis was a one-man wrecking crew against the run and shut down Hightower on all those outlet passes Warner was forced to throw because of pressure or the lack of open receivers. He had thirteen tackles and an interception. What more can one player do?
Some of us who thought there would be a better pass rush than the team was showing all preseason turned out to be correct - it was magnificent! Forget about the sacks, just count the pressures and it's easy to see how Warner's QB rating fell into the tank. But a pass rush can't be effective without some close coverage in the secondary, and the 9er's DBs came through with flying colors. Nate Clements put on a clinic on how to bust a receiver at the LOS to disrupt his pattern. As a group they made very few mistakes and made the coverage tight enough that Warner couldn't find anyone but Hightower on the outlet and gave the pass rushers a few extra seconds - talk about your symbiotic relationship!
It's often been said that defense wins championships and I'm a believer - all those Walsh teams had extraordinary defenses and it's no coincidence that the teams with dominant defenses usually make it to, and win, the SuperBowl. Personally, I'm thrilled - the 9ers at last have a D that can carry the team to the playoffs.
Now, about that offense. I'm blaming Jimmy Raye for that debacle. I think every 9er fan in world knew that the Cards would be stacking the line and blitzing like crazy because that's what has worked against the 9ers for about five years - why change something that has worked? But apparently, Jimmy Raye didn't get the word on that and it showed. Instead of turning to the screen pass and quick slants and outs to back off the rush, he continued to run despite the fact that the OL was losing at the LOS. Even though Adam Snyder and David Baas had particulary rough games, I won't blame them because they were essentially just overwhelmed by the constant blitzing up the middle and on the right side - something many of us had predicted would happen to perceived weak link Adam Snyder. It's up to the OC to deal with these situations through play calling and simple adjustments like tightening the gaps between linemen. So this one is on Jimmy Raye, not the OL. He has to learn to take what the defense is giving him, whether it's running or passing.
Shaun Hill, given the situation, performed admirably - no INTs and only one FF for a turnover. He didn't give away the game through mistakes. His passing wasn't the most accurate or pretty, but he did get the job done when it was necessary in the fourth quarter. No complaints from me about Hill's play or that of the WRs. There is nothing wrong with this offense that can't be fixed quickly, and with a better mix of play calling I think they can put enough points on the board to win games. That, combined with a top-5 defense, will take this team to the playoffs despite the difficult schedule.
Next Sunday we meet the Seahawks and it will not be easy. They have, imho, one of the best defensive front sevens in the NFL right now and their offense was clicking nicely against the Lambs when I watched the tape of that game. They have an interesting version of the Wildcat that has Hasselbeck tossing to Seneca Wallace who then tosses it back to Hasselbeck or runs it - watch out for Wallace! Otherwise, they have the offensive weapons to destroy a defense if they are not pressured - TE John Carlson, WR T.J. Housh..., and WR Nate Burleson are all great receivers, with Carlson being the most dangerous because he has the hands, agility, and concentration of a top WR . Hasselback has pinpoint accuracy and a nice touch. The 9ers pass rush and DBs will have to have another good game to stop this offense.
On offense, the 9ers can expect almost exactly what they saw in Phoenix only from better players. Aaron Curry will be pass-rushing on obvious passing downs and he is a monster, maybe as good as P. Willis. These guys will destroy our OL if Raye doesn't back them off with screens, slants, outs, and a TE over the middle. The 9ers are going to have to play pass-to-run before they can establish a running game and then use play-action. But given a better offensive game plan and play-calling, there is no reason the 9ers can't win this game. Go Niners!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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WEEK 1
The Eagles barely registered a passing game against the Panthers Week 1 even with McNabb.
The Ravens defense gave up 500 yards and 24 points against Brodie Croyle and the Chiefs Week 1.
You are reading too much into one week’s performance. The 49er running game will do just fine, it’s been effective for years. Also, it’s too earlier to anoint the defense SB worthy.
And enough blaming the running game on Jimmy Raye’s play calling.
News Flash
NFL defenses know whether the offense is going to run or pass on 90% of offensive plays. It’s sorta of a dead giveaway based on personnel, formation and down/ distance. It’s simply a matter of execution, or in Singletary’s words “punching them in the mouth instead of getting your tails kicked.”
bignerd is correct
You can’t make ANY sweeping generalizations after one game.
In 2007 the Giants won the SB. They started out 0-2 and their defense gave up 80 points in those two losses.
That’s the same defense that shut down Tom Brady’s 18-0 Patriots in the SB six months later.
The best way to grade the NFL is in quarters (after 4, 8, 12 and 16 games).
No one can contest how well the " D " played.
But there two sides to this team !
But the biggest question still remains :The Offense Line.
I Love the Niners as much as all of you, but since I’ve been on NN, all I’ve talk about is how poorly the O-Line was and moan about not drafting a 1st round Linemen.This weekend showed how poorly it is. I don’t need to review the Stats with you because all of you know them. It’s terrible. Also Raye didn’t stray from the run until the last Drive in the 2nd/4th qtrs. In some ways, we were lucky that AZ. didn’t adjust to the Pass. We need to get the opposing defenses off the front line to let the Line and Gore make some plays. Since everyone knows that we plan to Run, maybe pass first and back them off. Mix it up and then pound the run. Keep them back on their heels ! Gotta try something because 0.8 yards a carry is not cutting it.
For all you fantasy Players, it’s interesting to note that only three WRs that made the NFL scoring list ( 39 made the listed ) . Kicker-18, RB-8, TE-6, Defense-2 and 1 punter and a QB.
by LASVEGASNINER on Sep 15, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Thank you for restating my points.
1. The defense played an outstanding game. If they continue to play this way, they will give the 9ers a real chance to win in every game.
2. There was no running game because the OL couldn’t open holes against a stacked line and constant blitzing. Raye did absolutely nothing to back them off for most of the game.
3. It is unreasonable to expect the OL to be able to consistently dominate in a situation like that. The OC must be able to take advantage of whatever a defense is giving.
4. I’ve been one of the biggest complainers about the RT position, but I’m not laying the lack of a running game entirely on them after a single game against an aggressive defense where the play-calling was highly questionable.
I don’t know what there is about this post that brought out the boo-birds, but the accusations of over-generalizations are unwarranted. Nowhere did I say, or even imply, that a single great defensive performance equals a SuperBowl win, and pretty much anyone with half a brain understands one game does not equal a trend.
You're upset about hyperbole in a title?
Talk about pedantic.
P.S.
The first 39 out of 99. My mistake.
by LASVEGASNINER on Sep 15, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks for stating the obvious with your News Flash.
But perhaps you can also grasp the concept that both a screen pass and a corner route are both passes but are defensed differently. And an inside run is defensed differently than a sweep. An OC uses different plays to take advantage of personnel mismatches and defensive adjustments that leave them vulnerable to certain kinds of plays. That’s his job on game day.
Btw, insulting someone’s intelligence is not an effective way to make an argument. It tends to piss people off.
Exactly.
There is no doubt that our O-Line needs a lot of work. O-lines just don’t pop up and become great. It depends a lot on their ability to play together and gain experience playing next to each other consistently. And thats something the niners havent been able to do yet. So until they gain experience next to each other, our O-coordinator, meaning, he puts together the OFFENSE, needs to step up, and make sure the plays are designed for hill to succeed at qb, and not designed to expose the truth, that Hill is not capable of making Brady plays. Our offense needs to be short and sweet, quick to the point. Hill is below average and is horrible when it comes to checkdowns.
by Flying2boston on Sep 15, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions
If you didn’t notice the runs being stopped for negative yards were designed to get outside. The offensive line couldn’t hold a blocker long enough to run anything but a dive left or dive right. This is why I am sticking up Jimmy Raye, he was calling plays to counter the middle blitz . . . the offensive line didn’t block at all on those plays.
So if you know the o-line isn't going to perform....
design a play that will fit the team to succeed…. it worked in the scoring drive. call Short, sweet, and quick plays where hill doesn’t have to sit back and make an accurate brady like throw. Short throws develope quick, so the o-line doesn’t have to be a factor for the qb, and it works perfect when theres 7-8 men stacked in the box. Jimmy needs to anticipate who’s going to perform and who’s not, thats his job. It would be great if you could call the perfect play and have everyone perform perfectly. He needs to anticipate who can handle what. Hill isn’t going to be able to throw the ball 20+ yards accurately with precision throughout 4 quarters, he could barely handle one drive.
by Flying2boston on Sep 15, 2009 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions
The Cardinals were jumping the short routes most of the game guessing Hill would see the blitz and check down. The 49ers tossed up a lot deep balls to try to counter, unfortunately they only hit Bruce once. Brandon Jones might have made a big difference.
Yes, it’s Jimmy Raye’s job to flush out the weak. It’s only Week 1 and the process takes some time. It wasn’t as if it was one lineman messing up. Snyder and Baas were getting blown up and Chilo kept missing his assignment or taking the wrong step. Surprising the only thing the line did well was pick up blitzes on the pass rush.
AGREE
We need a qb that can hit the 15+ yrd throw when they jump on short routes…. and Snyder was horrible. Our backs looked like better blockers.
by Flying2boston on Sep 15, 2009 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions
national jump to conclusions week!
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Sheets was one of my keepers and Sunday prove it
We have 4 RBs and none can do what Sheets has shown. When the defense knows there is outside runaway runner, they tend to slow down and watch pulling lineman, TE and WR blocking for Him. Given the chance, they might even make a couple of yards !
You're right, some outside running would have loosened them up.
But neither Gore or Coffee is going to be doing much of that. All it really takes, though, is for the defense to believe you can make the screen or short timing patterns work. As someone else already said, we were lucky the Cards didn’t adjust their defense during that winning 4th quarter drive.
The Cards blitzed constantly during the game.
which helped account for the poor line play.
The Cards weren’t fooled at all. They knew the 49ers would run the ball and they sent enough guys in there to stop the run, most notably ILB’s Hayes and Dansby
But, the 49ers defense played great. And being that it was a low scoring, defensive game, the 49ers decided that punting the ball was preferable to turning it over via INT"s.
They played “Field Positio” football.
And the Cardinals did what they did a lot of last year (which is one reason why former DC Clancy Pendergast was fired). Their defense played well for most of the game but allowed a late, victory-denying TD.
Because the 49ers ran so much during the game, they were able to confuse the Cardinals with Hill completing 13 of 15 passes for 72 yards on their 80 TD winning drive at the end of the game.
Correction
He completed 9 of 13 passes on the final drive.
I don’t know if the 49ers rushing attack before that scoring drive was the reason for the ability to pass on the final TD drive. Check out my post about that scoring drive.
by David Fucillo on Sep 15, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions
3 quarter playcalling..
Was pretty horrid.
Run run pass punt.
Run run run punt.
Pass incomplete, pass incomplete sack punt.
Well, we're waiting....
The Pittsburgh Steelers couldn't run the ball last week
but won the game.
Personally (and not that anyone cares) I see football a little differently than others.
Tennessee missed two FG’s in that game and Big Ben (as usual) made the plays to win the game at the end.
The team that can minimize mistakes (like stupid penalities and turnovers) and make the big plays at the end of the game will usually win.
Most games are won or lost at the end.
That’s exactly what the 49ers did on Sunday. It wasn’t pretty but it was a ‘W.’
While others saw it as an ugly game, because they did those two things (minimize mistakes, make the big plays at the end), I saw it as a beautiful thing.
I love your attacks drummer.
They’re as predictable as the Sun rising in the East.
Which part confuses you? Or don’t you understand?
Essentially, you and I disagree here. No problem (at least for me).
You are wanting, expecting to score 30, 40 points a game.
I realize what Singletary and company were doing (you comment about the three quarters of horrid playcalling). No turnovers (except Hill’s ‘fumbled forward pass’) and a desire by the 49ers to settle for punts (and then playing defense) rather than risking turnovers (and easier scores).
Except, of course, at the end, when they NEEDED to drive 80 yards and they DID drive 80 yards. And won.
Sorry to "attack" you..
Even though it isn’t an attack. Throwing out the TEN/PITT comparison is pretty weak, very obvious, and you’ve proven that you don’t have a grasp of this game between the Card and 49ers.
In other words, you’re reaching once again.
Well, we're waiting....
Hysterical
I wasn’t making a direct comparison between the Steelers and the 49ers. That said the Steelers only ran for 36 yards, the 49ers 21.
And both games were essentially won by the two QB’s leading drives at the end of the game.
Why is that ‘weak’ drummer?
I’ve PROVEN that I don’t have a grasp of the game? Apparently then, neither does Mike Singletary. Cause basically everything I said he has pretty much said himself.
Are you saying that you (drummer) have more of a grasp than does Singletary? Is that what you’re saying?
You amuse me, my little friend.
How many other games had game winning drives?...
This week. Last season? History of the League? AFL? NFL? AAFC?
In case you don’t get it: Singletary, the 49ers, every quote, drive, play, player, etc. has been discussed here. PIT/TENN already has a thread here, so we know about that game.
So throwing that out there means you aren’t paying attention.
Personally (and not that anyone cares) I see football a little differently than others.
Not really. You may think you do. But you don’t.
Well, we're waiting....
Well drummer
I didn’t take the time to notice the Pitt/Tenn thread. I offer you a heartfelt apology.
With regards to ‘game winning drives’ . . . exactly. MOST games are decided like that.
And YOUR 49ers MADE the game winning drive and won the game.
Which kind of renders your crying about the playcalling in the first three quarters nonsensical.
The reason I say that I see football a little differently is because I use some intelligence in the process.
Not every drive is going to look great. Not every drive is going to produce points.
As MIke Singletary has clearly stated, he hopes all games are low scoring. The Niners have a better chance to win that way.
In case you haven’t been able to figure it out, you can win with guys like Hill and Bruce and Morgan . . . but you’re not going to keep DC’s awake at night doing so.
Your ‘juvenile’ post titled ‘3 quarter playcalling’ shows the depth of your football understanding.
Why don’t you tell us about Ken Whisenhunt’s great playcalling? I mean, this is the third year in Phoenix with his system. He’s got Pro-Bowlers like Warner, Boldin and Fitzgerald on his offense.
Tell me all about HIS great playcalling (that helped result in a home opener loss)?
I mean he’s been criticized in Phoenix for only attempting 17 rushes during the game.
Tell me about that?
Where's your knowledge....
Did you forget who ran the Cards offense….. before leaving to go coach the chiefs. Oh yeah, Haley. Thats who input Warner as the gauranteed starter, and let the cards offense start flying all of a sudden. What’s going to happen when he leaves….. Is the cards going to be grounded like the many years before Haley came in.
by Flying2boston on Sep 15, 2009 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow
You’re so wrong there on so many issues it’s hard to begin:
Haley was the OC but Whisenhunt ‘ran’ the offense (actually the whole team).
In 2007 Whisenhunt called the plays. Last year he let Haley.
Whisenhunt (after the entire preseason) named Warner the starter, not Haley.
You are almost completely ignoring Ken Whisenhunts role with HIS offense.
Well.... This Season will tell
Since, last year was the only year they really got any where (and Haley Ran the Offense last year… Which is why he had so much support for the head coaching job in KC)…. we will have to watch and see if the cards get anywhere like last year, cause if they start to fall off…. with three offensive pro-bowlers… then i’m definitely giving Haley all the credit for the cards short lived success.
Give it up for the one hit wonders, who almost make it all the way.
by Flying2boston on Sep 15, 2009 7:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Two statements now I fully agree with
The best way to grade the NFL is in quarters (after 4, 8, 12 and 16 games).
In case you haven’t been able to figure it out, you can win with guys like Hill and Bruce and Morgan . . . but you’re not going to keep DC’s awake at night doing so.
Also add you are playing into the hands of defensive coordinators. Sticking with the run even with no results best chewed the clock and still forced the Cards defensive to defend the 49ers offensive strength. Way too many complaints on this website about a win. I’ve seen the Bucs, Steelers, Ravens and Bears run that putrid offense for years with great success. They left the game in hands of defense and it worked Sunday.
You make it sound...
Like the 49ers weren’t trying to pass. They did. They were successful with that on one big play in the first half, and then in the 4th, when Hill finally found a rhythm.
They weren’t just pounding the rock all game long.
Putrid offense I agree. If that offense looks like that all season long, then it’s a long season. No way the 49er get away with a performance like that for 15 more games. Not that they will have that kind of performance, but your dressing a fat pig with Red and Gold lipstick.
Well, we're waiting....
What would have called on offense?
Running those dive plays into the brick wall for constant 3 and outs was still chewing the clock. The Cards were blitzing up the middle and jumping on short routes to create turnovers, which is why the 49ers tossed so many deep passes when they did throw it.
If they kept throwing the deep ball than the Cardinals would have received an extra possession or two in the game so I think the decision to run without much success was still a good one.
You are still trying very had to find a moral loss in a victory for this one. You could go any of the 15 winning teams boards for Week 1 and jump on the aspect of the game were the team fell flat.
You're still trying very hard..
To justify a poor offense that didn’t work most of the game against a defense that was 28th in yards allowed last season.
Reach much?
Well, we're waiting....
I am reaching . . .you are projecting again.
What I am reaching for? The poor offense won, that’s the result. No one is predicting it will win Week 2 – Week 16 but it’s the only aspect of the game you care to discuss (not surprising). A team hardly ever hits on all cylinders.
The 49ers defense was dominating the game and you want to open up the play book and allow the Cardinals defense to make a bigger impact on the game? Make a point about what you would have done differently, you’ve spent 36 hours complaining.
I would have opened up..
With quick short passes instead of telegraphing the run. I would have has Hill run more offense in the Pre-season and declared him starter instead of coddling Smith one more season. If Hill is your best QB, then you have him ready for day 1 in case , like a team is gonna shut down your best weapon. The margin of error was very slim this game. They got a win, but the gameplan was to escape, and the offense was woefully out of sync.
In other words, still more question marks than answers on it.
Granted, the 49ers have what they have on offense, and sure, that what Sing prepares with. But that offense sucks. The team is still a hair’s breath away from a multi game slide.
Well, we're waiting....
It was a perfect niner game
for the present niner team. Mike coached the game exactly how the niners needed to be coached. He used his defense to win, and thats how it should be. BIGNERD is right, the niners made the right decisions, and couldn’t have played any better, since their offense isn’t any better than what was there sunday.
But i just can’t stand the praises for hill…. he’s not the answer… we need a qb that can make the 20+ yrd throw.
by Flying2boston on Sep 15, 2009 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions
They were a few plays away..
from it being a disaster. That was a haphazard display of offense. It had one big play in the first, and one good drive in the 4th. The defense gave the 49ers a lot of opportunities and possessions. One tipped pass for an INT in that 4th quarter drive would have been ballgame. If they had ruled that fumble a TD? Ballgame. That’s teetering. Now, I’m happy they won a game, but it can also be one of those games like last season or the season before where you think they might start getting it by mid-season, only to see them go on a 6 game slide.
That was the defenses game. But the Cards have a whole lot of issues on offense, and Warner isn’t 100% IMO.
That has a lot to do with it.
Well, we're waiting....
They were a few plays away from it being a disaster.
Most NFL football games are decided by a few plays. Try being happy like the rest of us that Nolan wasn’t around to swing those plays to the opposition.
Who says I ain't happy? ...
I was happy at the start of 2007.
I was happy at the start of 2008.
I was happy at the start of 2006.
I was happy at the start of 2005.
I was happy at the start of 2004.
I was happy at the start of 2003………
Well, we're waiting....
I got banned..
From a 49er message board (won’t say which one) and got a lot of crap over at another because I told them Martz would prove disaster for Nolan, get him fired, that JTO wouldn’t last to mid-season, etc. That was before the very first game.
So I ain’t just paranoid here.
Well, we're waiting....
You made a mistake with your 'math.'
I post something at 4:20 about the Cardinal blitzes and the 49er O-Line.
You then IMMEDIATELY reply back with this:
The 49ers Attempted more passes than ran all game long.
See? LIke clockworck you swoop in to attack me. But (of course) you were wrong.
I never said that the 49ers RAN more than they passed drummer.
I said this:
Because the 49ers ran so much during the game
Get it? They ran 25 times and passed 31 . . . during the game. But wait, there’s MORE! Take away the drive at the end (when they passed 13 times) and the total BEFORE THE DRIVE THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT is this:
23 RUSHES
18 PASSES.
Get it, Drummer.
Not only didn’t I say that they ran more than they passed, but you are WRONG.
I wrote this:
Because the 49ers ran so much during the game, they were able to confuse the Cardinals with Hill completing 13 of 15 passes for 72 yards on their 80 TD winning drive at the end of the game.
Yes I made a mistake. It should have read 13 attempts, not completitions.
But my point is OF COURSE, correct (and yours wrong).
I’ll translate: Because the 49ers ran so much during the game (23 rushes to 18 passess AT THAT POINT) they were able to confuse the Cardinals.
See the mistake you made, drummer? Up to that point, they HAD run more than they had passed (23-18).
It’s not about football with YOU, drummer.
It’s about attacking me (and then, of course, looking foolish) because you can’t follow what I was saying which leads you to make innacurate statements as you ‘attack’ me.
You mean the six rushes after that drive?
That would THEN leave 17 rushes against 18 passes at the point of that 80 yard drive.
So my point stands (whether you can understand it or not) when I said ‘because they had run so much’ 17 against 18 passes.
A lot different than the Cardinals (who had 17 rushes against 44 passes).
You're not reading..
Each drive…ones that had pass attempts…that kinda blow your point apart…?
Well, we're waiting....
No. Just explain
Beyond that 50% of their completitions came on the final drive.
42% of their attempts came on that final drive.
Get it? Virtually half their passing attack came on on that one drive at the end of the game.
I see...
Geo’s….Superior Football Knowledge….can’t understand…..the play by play chart….
Well, we're waiting....
Oh, I can understand the play by play chart.
I just can’t understand the POINT you’re trying to make with it Drummer.
Tell me your point, OK?
To: GeoMak.... Where's your interdivision knowledge
Why don’t you tell us about Ken Whisenhunt’s great playcalling? I mean, this is the third year in Phoenix with his system. He’s got Pro-Bowlers like Warner, Boldin and Fitzgerald on his offense.
Tell me all about HIS great playcalling (that helped result in a home opener loss)?
I mean he’s been criticized in Phoenix for only attempting 17 rushes during the game.
Tell me about that?
by GeoMak on Sep 15, 2009 6:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Where’s your knowledge….
Did you forget who ran the Cards offense….. before leaving to go coach the chiefs. Oh yeah, Haley. Thats who input Warner as the gauranteed starter, and let the cards offense start flying all of a sudden. What’s going to happen when he leaves….. Is the cards going to be grounded like the many years before Haley came in.
by Flying2boston on Sep 15, 2009 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow You’re so wrong there on so many issues it’s hard to begin:
Haley was the OC but Whisenhunt ‘ran’ the offense (actually the whole team).
In 2007 Whisenhunt called the plays. Last year he let Haley.
Whisenhunt (after the entire preseason) named Warner the starter, not Haley.
You are almost completely ignoring Ken Whisenhunts role with HIS offense.
by GeoMak on Sep 15, 2009 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well…. This Season will tell Since, last year was the only year they really got any where (and Haley Ran the Offense last year… Which is why he had so much support for the head coaching job in KC)…. we will have to watch and see if the cards get anywhere like last year, cause if they start to fall off…. with three offensive pro-bowlers… then i’m definitely giving Haley all the credit for the cards short lived success.
Give it up for the one hit wonders, who almost make it all the way
You don't really get it Flying
But I’ll try again.
Haley did a great job as the OC. But it’s Whisehunt’s offense. Nothing was done without Whisenhunt’s approval. The shift from trying to be a more balanced offense to being almost exclusively pass was made by Whisenhunt.
The plays that Haley called last year were the same that Whisenhunt called the year before. The offense is Whisenhunt’s (from his days as the OC in Pittsburgh), not Haley’s (this was Haley’s first job as an OC).
Now that that’s settled, this:
Quoting Paola Boivin in today’s Arizona Republic: “Haley’s greatest strength was what he did for players at practice. He was a taskmaster who demanded they pay attention to detail. Poor attention to detail hurt the Cardinals on Sunday . . .”
I hope now you might begin to understand. If not, then I can’t help you.
I hope now you might begin to understand
I do. And you seemed to prove my point. That Haley was a huge point to their offense.
(this season will tell… if the cards perform and win, haley didnt make the offense, if the cards play like yesterday all season and don’t win…. well, you know…. drummer can tell you….. That you’ve been wrong before)
Losing Haley didn't help
Like it usually doesn’t when you lose a good coach.
But that’s really not close to explaining their problems.
On Sunday one WR (Breaston) unexpectedly came up lame and the other (Boldin) was only about 70%.
Warner depends a lot on timing and it hasn’t been there during the preseason and wasn’t there on Sunday.
Haley being on the sidelines wouldn’t have done anything concerning the health of those two.
Haley will be the biggest factor for the cards this year...
All I’m saying is… you were asking about wiseh. making the calls and having three yrs with the system and making bad calls on sunday. Haley was in the system for the last two, when they suddenly jumped to 12th in offense, and jumped up even higher in all off. stats (except running) last yr. Haley is great, and if the cards start to fall off in offensive production over the next seasons, and go back to the REAL ARIZONA CARDINAL tradition, then Haley had everything to do with Arizona’s short lived success, not Wise-who?
You are both sorta right IMO
Whiz does that rule that staff but Haley was sneaking thing by him when he could. Haley runs a more explosive and thrilling offense which suits their personnel better. Whiz likes a bit of ball control, discipline and trickery. I don’t think either running the offense would have made a difference with the 49ers getting pressure with 4 rushers.
That's not exactly true bignerd
Nothing was done without Whisenhunt’s approval. He was a former OC and now the HC.
Haley was a new OC.
At the game against the 49ers on opening day last season, Warner implored Whisenhunt to open up the passing attack in the second half. That started it.
Later in the season, Whisenhunt said that he still wasn’t real comfortable with so much passing but that it was hard to argue with the result.
Any idea that Haley was doing something that wasn’t approved of or sanctioned by Whisenhunt is false.
But everyone gets tired of saying ‘no’ all the time. Whiz did trust Haley’s judgment, he hired him believing he would do a better job than him. I think an edited Haley game plan is more risk/reward than one drawn up by Whiz . . . that’s what I am aiming at.
I'm not following your comment about saying 'no' all the time.
And when you say that he hired Haley to do a better job than him, you’re mistaken.
Whisenhunt was hired after a successful, SB winning stint as the OC with Pittsburgh.
He came to Arizona with every intention of calling the plays (like many do). And he called the plays in 2007 (when they went 8-8).
He turned the playcalling duties over to Haley in 2008 mainly because he wanted to spend more time on being a ‘HC’ than just as the OC. You know, be more involved with the total package.
That’s a pretty common chain of events in thst type of situation. If Haley had stayed I’m pretty sure he’d still be calling the plays. But since he left Whisenhunt went back to calling the plays.
It’s important to understand that Haley had NEVER called plays before (while Whisenhunt had a lot of experience in that area).
While he trusted Haley, this concept that he believed Haley would do a better job than him is just false.
Look
Haley did a great job. But that’s not the main reason why the offense improved last year.
1. First off, the second year in a system should be better than the first.
2. In 2008, the offensive line played all 20 games together. Not a single game was missed by one of the starters. That kind of continuity is huge in the NFL.
3. Last year Whisenhunt (not Haley) finally gave in to Warner. Whisenhunt wanted to run a more balanced offense but slowly decided to face reality: He had one of the best QB’s in the game and two of the best WR’s in the game. He decided to ‘air it out.’
did Raye call any outside runs?
I don’t recall any. Maybe a toss or something could have helped Gore/O-Line going.
Go 49ers
While I'm not trying to take credibility away from a sound defensive performance...
I’m wondering how the 49ers would have fared if Boldin or Breaston were healthy.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
It would not have affected the pass rush. It also isn’t as if the 49ers took advantage and rolled triple coverage towards Fitz. A healthy Boldin and Breaston would of had more of an impact but for the most part the Cardinals offense got it’s butts whipped in the trenches . . . I still think it would have been the 49ers game to win.
That's legitimate.
I never use injuries as an excuse but they are a factor. Having Breaston out and Boldin at about 70% really hurt the Cardinals.
I had stated on another site that the 49ers were fortunate in that they were playing their toughest division game (Arizona on the road) in week one.
Generally teams aren’t really ‘in sync’ on opening day. Better to play Arizona before Warner, Boldin and Fitzgerald get on a roll.
Better still while those guys are injured.
Oh, you.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Sep 16, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
The Uneccessary QB competition has reared it's ugly head, does anyone see that?
Our first team offense had very little reps as a unit during the preseason. Sure it’s Vanilla and even more reason to want to see some continuity, during the preseason. Shau Hill had half of the reps with the first unit as majority QB’s in the NFL. Our defense played well because that unit has been in tact for a few seasons. We have young WR’s and an O-Line that was banged up early of course the offense is gonna look bad. Blaming Raye or Sing’s philosophy is very premature, and I think our offense will continue to improve.
AKA.............Optimist Prime
Banned in 13 comments from the Gulls and I am proud!!
Lift all boats
Just the fact that we have a NFL marquee Coach and now a top NFL defense means we will get a good QB next year.
J GO
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