49ers 53-man roster final cuts
by James Brady on Sep 5, 2009 2:27 PM PDT
in San Francisco 49ers News
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PrintThe final roster cuts have come down from the 49ers, here's a list of the players released.
Released
DE
TE
CB
FB
LB
TE
FB
RB
G/C
Some big surprises here in Kory Sheets and both third tight ends Bear Pascoe and Joe Jon Finley. WR Dominique Zeigler seemed to seal his fate when he went down with an injury last night. I have to wonder about Sheets and the tight ends, maybe the 49ers are just that confident that Pascoe and Sheets will not be claimed off waivers, but I have the sinking feeling that we wont be seeing Sheets in action for the 49ers again.
Offensive tackle Alex Boone also went, which is also a surprise but again, the 49ers are most likely confident in picking up a tackle off the waiver wire and Boone is likely bound for the practice squad. It seems both Eric Green and Terrail Lambert didn't show enough at the CB position to outseat Marcus Hudson and his special teams play. Lambert looked good in the game aside from a few rookie mistakes.
This also means that seventh-round picks in Ricky Jean-Francois and Curtis Taylor may have played themselves into a roster spot, this is good I like both of these kids' potential. Also, LB Diyral Briggs, anyone? I smell a good move here.
The next couple hours/days could be interesting as the waiver wire takes shape, but wow is it surprising that the 49ers waived Kory Sheets. Anybody here reminded of Thomas Clayton?
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Wow
I’m surprised by Boone, Sheets, and having both Pascoe and Finley cut.
I wonder what the chances are that Sheets gets swiped off waivers.
I thought he played well enough to earn himself a spot on the roster – the 49ers are really taking a big chance in assuming he’ll be there for the practice squad.
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
McSing
probably wants a stronger up the middle runner which is Sheets weakness. Sure he can blast off on the edge, but can he push the middle like Gore and Coffee can? I didn’t think so. An edge runner who only has speed won’t outrun most NFL defenses and we’re not running a New Orleans-Reggie Bush style offense. Sad but true…he was exciting but against 1st string defenses he won’t be able to make an impact.
This is stupid
Multiple back rushing attacks only work when you have runners with different styles.
Frank: power, slashing back.
Coffee: power, crushing back.
Robinson: power back with wide skillset.
It’s not like Sheets’ running style was ineffective in our offense. All pre-season we saw him dart up the middle and bounce outside for solid-to-huge gains. If you’ve got a bruising backfield like we have with Coffee and Gore, then you would think that Sheets would make the perfect compliment to them – cutting to the outside against a defense that has been beaten and bruised for 3 quarters.
I pray that he makes it through waivers, because we’ll have had made a grave mistake if we let him go free and get nothing in return.
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
It's the
“bounce outside” that is the problem in his game. A first-string defense will have a LB there waiting for him. Then what?
Watch his runs again.
It’s not like he “bounced outside” whenever he took the hand-off. There were times when the hole was clogged, filled with linebackers or simply not there. There were times when linebackers moved into the pile, and it was on those plays that he saw the opening on the outside and took it up the sideline.
Because that’s what good backs do. It’s just that guys with 4.3 speed and the kind of quickness that Sheets has do it a lot better than 4.58 running backs who seek out hits every time they hit the hole.
Please, PLEASE watch the games again. You’ll see that it’s not a habitual Reggie Bush-like thing for him to kick it outside, it was just a reaction to the defense.
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
A back like Sheets is dangerous in the 4th quarter
After the defense has played for three and a fresh pair of fast legs needs to be chased around the field. Then you come back with Frank and Beans and you will keep a defense on it’s heels. Our passing attack appears dismal and a running attack will be needed in each game.
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
exactly
i was thinking he would be our sproles. so small to tackle and to fast to keep up with.
you gotta realize one thing that does change in preseason is basically every quarter they swap out players so everyone one is fresh..
but like the chargers learned last year when your back up is faster than everyone on the field you let him blow right by the db’s and line backers that have been running around for 3 whole quarters
big lose… hope no one picks him up
by whitemike1644 on Sep 5, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Sheets had 5 regative rushes in 29 attempts
He was too much boom or bust, and that’s against 2nd stringers.
Also, he ran a 4.47 at the combine. That’s hardly a 4.3.
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 5, 2009 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Regative???
Thats sort of a regular run with negative yards?
by WC-Ninerhead on Sep 6, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
That shocked me
I thought for sure they were looking for that 3rd TE replacement and now they decided to heck with that 3rd guy. Not upset with the decision, but it was a surprise.
They haven't in a while...
but Brian Jennings can also be used as a tight end.
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
Of all people
We can’t afford to get him hurt. Long snappers are almost as hard to replace as a QB.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
That's why they haven't used him there in a couple years.
However, I don’t think it’s out of the question to use him as a wing TE in goal line sets.
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
Didn't surprise me
I think there will be better number 3 TEs on the waiver wire and I think the Niners will bring one in. New England has alot of depth at TE and waived Alex Smith. I think he might be a good fit.
He may even be the best Alex Smith in the league, perhaps!
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
by Fearless Frog on Sep 6, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Question.
Is Michael Robinson blackmailing the Yorks or something? I cannot see how he keeps making the roster, yet people with far better talent gets cut.
Seriously
He’s a backup at RB and FB, the FB on punt block and a key special teams member, plus emergency 4th QB. The guy is a player all around. He even had about 100 yds rushing in one quarter of the Raider game.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
That's why...
I wasn’t impressed with Coffee’s performance against Oakland. The fact that Robinson did well. You can tell if someone has a horrible defense if Robinson can have a good game against them.
I don't think you're fully appreciating Robinson
Downing him for having a good game means you’re looking at it the wrong way.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Maybe , but
and maybe I’m reading too much into 3rd string RBs, but I’ve never been near as high on him like I have others who do get cut.
"but, and"?
Can I apologize for that moment of poor grammar? LOL
He doesn't run well during the season
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
I am all for Michael Robinson on the roster.
He is a huge threat in Long yardage situations coming out of the backfield as a receiver. He is just as much of a threat out of the backfield catching as Frank Gore is.
The cake is a lie.
by Sultan of Seitan on Sep 5, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Sheets is a much better pure runner than Robinson
but you can’t knock Robinson’s versatility.
by Bob In Beaverton on Sep 5, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
We have 2 solid runners already,
1 of which, according to Singletary, is barely going to see the ball.
The cake is a lie.
by Sultan of Seitan on Sep 5, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions
What I like about Sheets id that he break to the outside and gain yards.
Whereas the rest are down the middle. Also, Simms made the Roster? Oh man, someone will pay the price. OL are rare Diamonds and I thought Boone is one. One team will pick him up.
by LASVEGASNINER on Sep 5, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm with Ovalshine...
I dont care if he is the 4th Qb!!!!?…. i dont care if he is the 5th center, the third punter, and cleans the bathroom after Willis takes a crap. He is a jack of all trades but how about just having a running back that plays running back well. He is a threat out of the backfield? He may catch it but the first contact that is made is a tackle. He may run them over and maybe in college he knocked the kid out, but in the NFL he will fall two yards in front of the contact. He doesnt even try to make a move. Gore can make a move. So they are not equal threats. Im sure his roughneck personality has helped him stay in the graces of Nolan and Singletary but come on! I can find someone else to be the upback and make the punt call. I wasn’t as mad with Clayton not making the team last year because to be honest he was a poor man’s Gore that had a little too much patience, not enough speed and with poorer vision. Sheets is a change of pace guy that would be good for our offense. Coffee is more of a starter without a doubt but i think sheets is just as important if not more as long as Gore stays healthy… i hope he makes it through waivers.
What does this say?
Being that they watch the film and know who lined up wrong, ran the wrong route, missed assignments, etc, this tell me that: the coaches and FO is very high on Briggs, RJ and sees Taylor as a future starting safety (and likely special teams contributor now). I’m not surprised about Boone after watching his pass protection last night.
It’s really too bad about Sheets and I hope he makes it to the PS. My real concern is that we kept Spurlock over having a third TE. For a run based team it seems odd that we don’t have injury insurance or an extra blocker in short yardage/goal line. I’d rather keep Bear on potential than Spurlock but chances are that one or both Finley/Bear will make the PS and be ready for call up.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
sad
so stupid that they cut sheets, who obviously could have had an impact from the start. bummer.
I thought coach sing had the Eye!!
some people just have the eye for talent. everytime my team plays a game I notice the people who have a real neck for talent. some people just sees things, some people don’t. Im deeply saddend by the korey sheets move!! deeply
Not until March 1, 2010.
The 9ers can’t trade Crabtree’s rights until then. If he’s going to hold out all season, trade him – maybe we can get another 1st rounder.
That was the worst release
I’m hoping he isn’t claimed off waivers, I wouldve dumped rossum
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
something makes me want to agree with that.
rossums nice but Korey sheets may be the most shifty player we have. he’s like a reggie bush elusive type guy. plus he can get up to a 4.3 at running back. any screen play could go the distance. Thats what pittsburg did to the cards and took cromartie clean out of the equation. I hope I dont rub off on coffee because of this
It's pitiful
What are they holding on to him for Robinson can return kicks and pass bolock adn run. Spurlock can return kicks catch passes and play qb in the flukey wild cat. Rossum can return kicks and he’s 34 plus years why keep a guy that cant multi-task…….He is a crappy corner
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
an impact
thats what u get when coffee hits u for a gain of 20 up the middle
by always faithful on Sep 6, 2009 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Keep in mind:
Spurlock is the likely cut when/if Crabtree signs.
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
True
And if Jones were healthy I think Spurlock would already have been cut, thus putting either Sheets or one of the TEs on the team now. Of course that means that player would then get cut if/when he #10 pick signs. Since I’m not sure that will happen it really is too bad JOnes is hurt and may cost us a better player on the full squad.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
13 Offensive players
Suggests that the team is more set with the defense and isn’t happy with the offense?
Good question
Defensive head coaches tend to have more of their players, opposite for offensive coaches. I remember Seifert always wanted an extra DL and DB.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
defensive character team
Running offense and run-stopping defense will be the hallmarks of the team this year.
Maybe we can line PW up at TE on goal lien situations like they do in NE.
The cake is a lie.
by Sultan of Seitan on Sep 5, 2009 2:45 PM PDT reply actions
I hope this does't mean...
That Spurlock will get the nod over Jason Hill, like in the Charger game.
The cake is a lie.
by Sultan of Seitan on Sep 5, 2009 2:47 PM PDT reply actions
So, did we keep any undrafted free agents?
Can’t remember who was left…
The cake is a lie.
by Sultan of Seitan on Sep 5, 2009 2:49 PM PDT reply actions
As previously stated by everyone
I too am very shocked by Sheets, Pascoe/Finley, and Boone.
Sheets looked very good, gave team an extra burst, I thought he was a potential KR
Pascoe/Finley is surprising for the fact that there are only 2 TE’s. Not much depth for a power running oriented team, don’t you think?
Boone, my drinking buddy, I thought he would’ve been kept for depth at Tackle, oh well, drink on Boone, drink on….
Our offense in the preseason looked horrible
Then we cut our most dangerous open field runner, niners brass and coaches are a bit ridiculous, I’m turning on u Mr Sing, I’m turning
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
As much as I hate Sheets being cut
Let’s wait and see. It’s not like other teams don’t have guys they really want to keep and had to cut or have rosters already full. You can still only have 53. If Sheets makes the PS, could it be the guys watching film know more than us? Let’s at least wait and hear what Sing says about the decision.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
List of Teams Probable to Sign Sheets
Chicago Bears
Seattle Seahawks
Cleveland Browns
Cincinnati Bengals
Washington Redskins
Green Bay Packers
New Orleans Saints (A team he was literally built for)
St. Louis Rams
Considering most teams viewed him on par with Coffee before the draft, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was signed to be a #2 back or 3rd Down Back on any of these teams over the next couple days.
What do you think makes the most sense?
Poor form 49ers
Sheets will be better than Coffee
Might want to add the Seahawks, too.
Their RB situation isn’t that great – there’s not much behind Julius Jones.
Sheets will get signed and the niners are dumb
Count up our points for the preseason and count up sheets td’s…………SanFran Douche’s move the team to Mexico City and go all out
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
I hope you're being somewhat tongue in cheek
It’s not like Sheets would have been on the active roster on very many game days.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
I really liked Sheets but, the 49ers could really only keep 3RB and 1FB with Robinson being a backup FB
If they kept Sheets then someone else like RJF would have been dropped.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
someone like rossum
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
i would be totally fine ...
with RJF or taylor…. taylor would have def made the PS… he is waayyy too raw.
they
better get miller, sheets, finley and boone on the practice squad….ok with keeping robinson, but really wanted rossum out..
by 2ninersonecup on Sep 5, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Pretty much.
At this point, oddly enough, he’ll give us more than Boone, but I honestly think I could pick a name at random (hoping against hope it doesn’t start with a K and end in wame Harris) from the FA LT list and find someone better.
Sims is better than Kwame
Yes, that’s like saying JTO is better than Rattay but in a backup role it’s worth noting.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Ahh
I thought you were saying you could pick a name like Kwame who would be better than Sims. My bad.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Christ no.
I had a dream a few weeks back we signed Kwame, woke up and vomited stuff I hadn’t even eaten yet.
Probably true
I hope a FA tackle is signed to replace him.
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 6, 2009 1:37 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm 6'7''
Pretty big guy. Maybe I should try out? Surely I’d play with more intensity than Barry Sims..
6'7"??
What the hell man, get out there!!!! ;-)
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 6, 2009 1:40 AM PDT up reply actions
It's just...
Not that I’m not in football shape, or that I don’t have the form for it.. but I REALLY like NOT moving. Which I guess is a problem Barry Sims suffers from. Still, I bet I could out-block him. And also probably beat him in a fight. And a game of chess. And a spelling bee. And a thumb wrestle. And a drink off. And possibly a three-legged sack race depending on who my partner is. And…
(above)to brendan
sims + rossum=garbage
by 2ninersonecup on Sep 6, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
He went undrafted
What makes you think that so many teams are chomping at the bit to sign him now when nobody, including the 49ers, would waste even a late draft pick on him?
"most teams viewed him on par with Coffee before the draft"
which is why no one drafted him, right?
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I don't necessarily agree that Sheets was thought by NFL scouts to be on par with Coffee, persay...
but a lot of people had him pretty high on their lists. See him there ranked just one spot lower than – that’s right – Glen Coffee.
The knock on him, and the reason he wasn’t drafted, was character-related. During a losing streak at Purdue, he ran his mouth to the media, claiming that his production should have allowed him more touches, taking the ball out of the hands of a then-struggling Curtis Painter at QB.
Had he kept his mouth shut, he no doubt would have been drafted.
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
I saw that guy against the Eagles the other night.
He was pretty beast.
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
Offensive line depth
Going with Sims and cutting so many others suggests that they’ll be more personnel action soon? Who goes when Crabtree signs?
So you're saying
If Spurlock takes one or two back to the house and Rossum continues to dive face first into the turf, we’ll still keep Rossum? We’d more likely demote Curtis Taylor and bring up an Eric Green or a Terrail Lambert.
You're assuming a lot about Spurlock
As tho Rossum can’t do the same? He brought back a KO for a TD last season. Spurlock did not. Should either of them run a few back in the first two weeks, I think we can agree that individual will have a lock on the job.
I’m no more a fan of Rossum than Spurlock. I’m thinking more versatility. If/when #10 pick signs, which position would require more depth. As a running team, 5 WRs is fine. You can never have enough DBs in today’s NFL.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Nothing wrong there
And thanks for admitting. I’m not towards either. I just want a good spread of depth while continuing to build for the future, one reason I like keeping Briggs, RJF and Taylor.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Yeah
I mean, I know I’m biased. At the same time I really do believe in the players I’m biased towards. Kinda like Fooch with Jay Moore. When it comes down to it we made some smart moves, though I do not necessarily agree with the prospect of two tight-ends with Barry Sims lining up for extra blocking.
Not just bias
I don’t view the Niners as truly competitive and want then to develop talent. Hence wanting to keep some promising players; we suffered through years of A. Smith, and we can’t bring along a few others?
5 corners is plenty
Teams often only have 4 active on gamedays.
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 5, 2009 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm thinking in terms of injury
Cause you could say the same about RBs. Only Gore, Coffee, Norris and Robinson will be active on game days. Sheets likely would not have been in most games.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Playing in the NFCW
and having a pretty thin group at the position already, I don’t see how we could go into a game with just 4 corners. Though, I’d imagine Reggie Smith could still step into the the role in an emergency.
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
no way....
if it gets to the point where we need rossum to play DB then there will be signings… he will never see the field there… so i like spurlock over rossum… spurlock is better at his natural position and is a lot younger
Anyone care to guess which OT we land?
Jon Runyan has been available and they didn’t pull the trigger, so I’m guessing McClo is engineering a trade, like Philly did, instead of picking someone up off the waiver wire. But we’ll likely know very soon.
I’m glad to see RJF and Spurlock made the roster, but like most people here, I’m shocked by the Sheets and Pascoe moves. Jay Moore’s luck finally ran out, though – too bad, I thought he had some potential.
Hm..
Moore did have potential, but Briggs and Brooks probably have more. I’m literally reeling right now for Sheets and Pascoe/Finley. I mean, I always hoped Boone would make it but there’s definitely better out there. Sheets though, could have been great.
Poor Moore
Real good in practice but couldn’t make plays in games (or stay healthy). Briggs made sure the same would not be said of him last night.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
He had a fantastic Senior Bowl.
And has a very fast first step. But if a player can’t stay healthy or show up in preseason games, his fate is pretty much sealed. I hope Briggs and Brooks work out well – this team needs a pass rush desperately.
Moore ...
will easily get by waivers… i dont even know if the niners will sign him on the ps if he does though especially since they kept briggs
It's almost like we're afraid to keep some speed.
With Sheets, I feel like Singletary and Co. made a huge mistake. They keep claiming “physical football team,” power running, etc.. So Sheets comes in, is fast and elusive and we just give him the “don’t fit the bill” treatment.
Thats exactly what they did! Fricken bums!
Im hurt man. Im sittiing at the computer and right in front of the lap top is a little orange/yellow box that says fabric softener, and right after the little tear it says “sheets” He’s on a island man. no wilson. WILSON!!! Im a total wreck. just when I thought we were putting together some talent….ughh. we better be over .500 this season.
You do realize
That Sheets would have played very little if at all right?
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
well ....
then that would be another coaching mistake…. i think he should have touched the ball at least once a game…. he brings what no one else from the RB position can bring. SPEED. Whether it be KR or screen pass…. give him the ball
yep
Sheets speed would have been a big asset in the 4th qtr after the opposition had been gored and french roasted for 3.
Another poster said that he didn’t have the strength to go up the middle against a 1st string defense. Maybe, maybe not. He sure showed ’tude and determination when he slipped thru tackles and dragged that Dallas LB 5 yds into the EZ. And he has 5" and 20+ pounds on Sproles.
You can only dress 45
And Sheets doesn’t play special teams. If your 3rd string RB doesn’t play ST then he won’t dress on game day.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
I'm not particuarly suprised or upset...
How much impact did Thomas Clayton have last year, and that was without Coffee on the roster? If Gore is out of the lineup, I want Coffee in there. Sheets is a nice player, but he is definitely 3rd string on this team.
As for Pascoe/Finley, neither made an impression on me either way. I hope that one of them ends up on the practice squad, and I am sure that one of them will.
After last night, I thought that Briggs was a must keep on the 53 man roster. You simply can’t expose a potentially talented edge rusher to other teams – especially the 49ers. I have a feeling he could see some significant playing time this year.
Lastly, I am glad we kept Jason Hill. He was very effective last year, and he just seems to make plays when he gets the chance.
Don’t be too hard on yourself, maybe you will clear waivers and make the practice squad..
Judgment day is coming!
After spending some time feeling bad for the guys I hoped we could keep (Sheets, Pacoe/Finley) I’ll just hope that 24 hours from now they clear waivers and end up on our PS. Can’t worry about them anymore than the #10 pick as what’s done is done.
Going forward, I’m gonna feel good about the young guys who did make it because they have the chance to develop and be part of our winning future. Let’s hear it for Briggs, RJF, Taylor & McKillop, plus returning guys that we’ll count on immediately like Jason Hill and Brooks. After suffering through horrid safety play the past few seasons (I’ve lost count but I’m guessing since Merton and McDonald left) we now have Goldson, Reggie Smith and Curtis Taylor. A lot of quickness for all and size for two of them.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Anyone see that the Raiders cut Jeff Garcia?
That carcass of a franchise is already smelling this year.
by Bob In Beaverton on Sep 5, 2009 3:40 PM PDT reply actions
What a joke.
Part of me wishes that we’d sign him…
The cake is a lie.
by Sultan of Seitan on Sep 5, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
he should be on our roster as our most tenored player
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
Interesting to see where he ends up
And they didn’t play him a great deal. Odd all around.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
I think that rotting smell is coming from Al Davis.
Isn’t there someone around him that can tell him to just retire? He’s destroying his legacy.
8 Offensive Linemen left?
Centers + Gaurds + Tackles = OL (8) – Joe Staley, David Baas, Eric Heitmann, Chilo Rachal, Adam Snyder, Tony Wragge, Barry Sims, Cody Wallace
Expect more cuts as the niners add depth to their OL.
Briggs, Harris, Ulbrich maybe?
Ulbrich is consistently
One of the best special teams players on the team. For 10 years now he’s been a contributor just about every season and you’d rather have Marques Harris, a guy with little else other than some chemistry with Greg Manusky?
by James Brady on Sep 5, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ulbrich..come
Ulbrich..come on i know everyone wants this team to get younger but Ulbrich has been one of those guys that you can consistently count on for his play making. I think Harris will be one of the first gone if we can get another good lineman.
Judgment day is coming!
Watching
Marques Harris last game.. I saw him pressure the QB pretty much all night.. could of been from just extra motivation from playing against his former team. Made me regret not focusing on him in the other 3 games. + I rather see Willis TKO McKillop and Brooks playing ILB.. Ulbrich has consistent as he has been, I think the team has to move on, no matter how good of a special teamer.
That doesn't make any sense.
Why would he “move on” if he’s one of the top contributors? Marques Harris showed up too little too late and was a product of guys like Francois and Mitchell wreaking havoc on the third O-Line of the Chargers. I would rather see Harris or Brooks go in place of Ulbrich.
the same way the pats moved on past Bruschi amd Vrabel
This is the NFL yo have to get younger. Pt McKillop on ST
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
They moved on past Vrabel
Because they had somebody proven to take his place. And they didn’t move on past Bruschi, he retired.
Before he retired he lost his spot
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
And what did he to?
He produced in his role, like Ulbrich does. Wheras someone like Harris has yet to do anything.
We have an area in concern called the pass rush
Ulbrich isn’t helping…..McKillop really can’t replace Ulbrich on ST?
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
Since when has Harris been the guy we brought in for pass rush?
You cite the pass rush, yet Harris has nothing to do with that area. He’s a Manny Lawson-esque guy, decent in coverage but can’t get around a lineman. Ulbrich isn’t supposed to be a pass-rusher. We’re hoping on Briggs for this, not Harris.
And no, right now, McKillop cannot replace Ulbrich on ST. They're both out there.
And you can’t match Ulbrich in your first year, despite how impressed I am with the kid
IMO Ulbrich is fine
I wouldve booted Rossum though, Robinson and Sheets wpould do more for the O
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
No he didn't produce in his role he retired
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
All I'm saying is
I want to see the potential of Marques Harris, even if it is at the expense of Ulbrich.
I can see why Ulbrich staying on the roster would be the more logical move, but in our pass rush “preview” this preseason, just makes me wonder if Harris could possibly be a gem.
Potential?
He’s only here because Manusky has chemistry with him. You wonder if he can be a gem for what? He was nowhere near the ball except on maybe two-four plays the entire preseason. Harris hasn’t provided a spark in his career and he’s not likely to with the 49ers. If it comes down to needing a roster spot and it was between Ulbrich, the very solid player who makes everyone around him better, or Harris, a 5th year player who didn’t do anything in preseason despite having plenty of playing time and who is struggling to find his “potential.”
For all I know,
It could be a hoax. Harris though, was very much around the QB last night. He has a good jump off the line, just couldn’t find a way to get off the block. Which I know sounds bad, but with development in technique, he could be better than Manny Lawson.
Ulbrich makes who better? I see Spikes as the veteran that mentors the younger LBs.
Spikes is busy being a starter.
I was watching the game too, ya know. You say he was around the QB, I say he wasn’t. I’m rewatching it tonight, so I’ll post again when I get back later in reply to this post, but honestly I can’t be excited that he didn’t stick out to me. You haven’t given me any reason as to why Ulbrich should be released. He did more than Harris did, and therefore should stay. I think a guy like Justin Roland deserved that spot more than Harris did, by the way. He was everywhere. I have to head off right now but my point still stands, Ulbrich is one of the, if not the biggest contributor on special teams.
In other words
Harris is a gamble, wheras Jeff Ulbrich is the very definition of dependable. As a ST player, a backup at a very important position, a mentor for McKillop to step up his ST game, and a guy who will be included on more snaps defensively than Harris will.
You're such a hater.
Ulbrich adds as much or more to this team than Michael Robinson, and it’s hard to argue against his roster spot.
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
BS
M Rob contributes in far more areas, that’s laughable
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
Hmm... let's see
100% participation in…
Kickoff coverage: check
Punt coverage: check
Kick returns: check
Punt returns: check
Among team leader in special teams tackles in recent years: check
Primary backup at a team-essential position: check
Likely to see play on third downs and special formations: check
Will see significant time, possibly even start, in the event of just one injury: check
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
Robinson right?
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
Comparison between Ulbrich and Robinson.
They both fit each of the criteria.
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
point being:
They’re equally as important to this team.
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
Are you asking if Ulbrich is a special teams presence? check.
3rd string ILB? check.
3rd or 4th string OLB? check.
As for the taser QB (which is useless, and likely going to be Spurlock, anyway) and the 4th string QB (wtf does that even mean?) – to those, I say, “whatever.”
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
Way too much stock is going into Ulbrich's ST play
http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=5115&team=25&page=logs
The 4th stringer jobs were kind of a reach
Forgot to mention, that Robinson is also the backup PR and KR.
I prefer Robinson at Taser QB
Nothing against Spurlock, I think Robinson would do better if asked to throw.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
I think he'd show better poise
But Spurlock seems to be more suited for a throw. Just unsure if Robinson remembers how to hold a football any other way than cradling it.
Not really
Robinson plays O on certain downs Ulbrich will play d ONLY if there is an injury
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
Really?
When would Ulbrich play D without an injury?
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 6, 2009 1:06 AM PDT up reply actions
They shuffle him in, to an extent
Unless I’m wildly mistaken. I don’t have the drive to backup my statement right now, so I’ll fold. Since I’m not even partaking in the “Robinson contributes more than Ulbrich” argument anyway, but more of in the “Ulbrich is valuable to this team” argument.
Introduction
Btw I am Widowwolf – Long time reader this is first time posting though..Hate to see the roster cuts but i am sure good things will still come this season. I am ready for the Samurai to come through for us this season.
Judgment day is coming!
Well do you guys have a Wise arse one yet? I am told that’s the position i play best.
Judgment day is coming!
We have more than a few.
Not to mention our resident lovable troll. But mostly, everyone is liable to be a wise arse at one point or another. Still, we do just fine. Took a lot of time to find an intelligible place on the internet to discuss the Niners and once I found NN well.. I decided it was impossible and just stuck around here.
Just kidding, these guys are great. Welcome, seriously.
I second that..
I have been known to be a Wise arse from time to time. Stick around and enjoy the show.
Oh and..
While there is plenty of room for several wise-crackers.. Only room for one sexy poster, and that is mine. Maybe one second-stringer, but I doubt it.
How about the wise old fox
or the old bull who slowly walks down the hill ? I take thoses categories
by LASVEGASNINER on Sep 5, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Just ordered my personal fathead
I’m sext too!!
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
Sexy that is
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
Well thank you and i have read all the rules but am still unclear about a few things like rec’ing but i think i will pick them over time
Judgment day is coming!
As exciting as Sheets was
he’d never produce much against a first-string NFL defense as he is not strong enough going up the middle. I view him as more of a Reggie Bush type.
Pascoe and Finley are the two shockers…you’d think one would have been ok.
Note the trend on keeping D-Line and LB
he’d never produce much against a first-string NFL defense as he is not strong enough going up the middle
Apparently, you didn’t watch much of the pre-season.
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
sure
and he did great against the 3rd string. I’m talking about regular season first stringers. no way that happens.
We can't definitely say that
But at the same time I just don’t see room for Sheets.. I wish it was different, we need the speed guy, but in the regular season I agree, he wouldn’t get many looks at all.
So what happens when Gore goes down from carrying the rock 350 times by week 15?
You’re cool with Michael Robinson as your backup halfback going into the stretch for a possible playoff spot?
The NYG can tell you that having 3 quality running backs will do wonders for the longevity and effectiveness of each of those guys.
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
Look, I'm sorry but
We have three running backs. Coffee will shoulder more of the load than you think. And if Gore goes down the Coffee will take the load. Having Sheets on the roster would mean nothing more than having him in on special teams. Are you forgetting that Coffee is even on the roster? We can’t get rid of Robinson so we have to get rid of Sheets. It’s just how it is. I don’t like it, you don’t like it, best we can do is look at the positives.
Okay.
We’ll just assume that Frank Gore will play 16 games for the first time since 2006, Glen Coffee will be a 5.8ypc average back in his rookie season, and no injuries will take place to any of our halfbacks all year despite the blinding clarity that we’re going to run the ball in great excess all season long.
Great idea.
Let’s also throw a great rushing prospect out the window while we’re at it. Because, as mentioned, it’s not like halfbacks ever get hurt in the NFL.
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
Awesome.
You’re colorful, you. Look, Sheets didn’t make it and there’s not room for it. If we need another back, we’ll get one. End of story. And while I’m excited for his potential, you can’t just go out spouting he’s a great rushing prospect when there’s tons of young half backs who’ve looked stellar. You can have fun with your disaster scenarios, but I’m going to move on and look at the positives and hope we get Sheets on our practice squad.
There's room Rossum is one dimensional and he was more expendable
The broncos went through 5 backs last season, but I also have to agree, it’s done yet we will not see the damage until later this season.
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
I'm not really trying to take anything away from Sheets
I mean come on, I’ve been ranting about how awesome he is for weeks, it just can’t happen right now.
They will take a day to review the waiver list
make some final moves and move on. We have a game coming up in a week and they will need to focus on prepping for the season opener. Meanwhile the hunt for the best talent they can field will continue based on game day performancass and injuries…
I just don't think that it's a "disaster scenario"
to assume that a team that will likely carry the ball 450+ times this season (in a best case scenario, really) will see some injuries at a position where their starter is a guy who’s had some nagging injuries for the past few years and their pirmary backup is a guy who has never carried a full load, even on a college schedule.
I don’t think I’m being crazy in taking note of this pretty clear possibility.
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
Wish we had Sheets.
I really do, but we don’t, and I think it’s a neutral move for McSing. It’s bad, but at the same time it’s understandable.
Rather have a Reggie Bush type rturning kicks than a Worthless CB
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
Reggie Bush was drafted #2 overall
Comparing Sheets to Bush is just preposterous.
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 5, 2009 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions
That's why it says Reggie Bush Type
U can compare Gates to V Davis…..you’re proposterous
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
You said Bush was drafted number 2 overall and comparing sheets to him was preposterous
V davis was drafted 6th overall and how about comparing him to gates the undrafted TE
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
Banned in 13 comments!!!!
Time to rummage thru other teams cuts. I'm hoping the jags cut a quality O-line
player in Tony Pashos or Tra Thomas.
check out Pasho's bio, He would be a great fit
Especially since Crabtree hasn’t signed.
I would love the Niners to pick through the waiver wire and take a couple guys like Pasho, all for the exact same dollars as they would have offered Crabtree. And then announce that they are reducing Crabtree’s offer by 1/16th every week, and are willing to trade his rights when they become available.
They're called RUNS for a reason.
sad
they got rid of sheets and pascoe? stupid. they should’ve kept both. pascoe would’ve been the 2nd best te on the team.
i see an 8 or 9 win season at best.
"There is no pressure. Pressure only exists when you're not prepared."
-The Samurai
Except Delanie Walker is a solid player
Just needs to learn how to block. I had A LOT of hopes for Pascoe, but Singletary was right. He’s not ready yet. Unless you were implying Davis is just horrible, which I kind of agree with.
Lets all take a deep breath and wait for the other shoe to drop
This ain’t over yet.. As I noted in a comment on the last 53 spot projections. The staff is not happy with current roster ( after all the cuts so far) They will no doubt pick up some of more guys from the waiver list and cut lose some of those that are still on the roster as it stands now.. They want and need better talent on OL and clearly they did see what they want from TE .. We all knew they were heavy on the RB and WR list so someone had to go..
All things remaining the same.....
Our practice squad should be…..
Sheets
Pascoe
Boone
Spanos
Lambert
Mitchell
Miller
Moore
I'm done with Zeigler
….the love affair with our fans and this guy needs to end…. we are too young with better receivers…. He has no future with us unless you think he can come back when bruce retires. Once Crabtree signs his days as a 49er have ended
Hence the practice squad.
None of the guys that we’ve had that aren’t on the roster now are better than Zeigler. Price and Collins.
Not a bad list
Maybe Zeigler (if healthy) and/or perhaps Finley tho i could not say at whose expense. Sheets, Pascoe, Boone and Mitchell (after last night) for sure.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Curtis Taylor
he deserves it, and he played pretty good in his preseason action. I’m excited about him making the roster. Pascoe will hopefully pass through waivers, and Boone as well. Sheets may go elsewhere, however, and his preseason play makes him worth snagging for one of those teams in need of depth at RB. If all three land our practice squad, that’s phenominal, especially since we’ll likely have Zeigler there.
Bernard Pollard released by the Chiefs
Brady must have asked Pioli to do that…revenge for the knee hit.
Pollard is somewhat good isn't he?
He’s got to be better than Roman…
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 5, 2009 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions
He was just starting to realize his potential.
Many insiders maintain that he got on the coach’s badside and was offed accordingly.
particularly hate to see Sheets, Pascoe & Boone go - and Brit Miller too
but let’s absolutely pick up another tackle – a RT combo of Adam Snyder/Barry Sims would be a HUGE thorn in my side
keeping Spurlock and Briggs were two good moves
"Those boos really motivate me to make something happen." - Bonds
Sims actually looks better this year but I do like Snyder for RT until the 9ers get a real good one in the draft
I love that they kept Briggs. He showed a lot of promise and Spurlock was a good all around receiver and returner. I think that by midseason, if he keeps working on it, he could replace Rossum which would open up a spot for someone else.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Rentmeester!????
How could they let Rentmeester go?!!!
We are doomed to fail now. I am no longer a 49ers fan.
cbsf OUT.
But really,
does anyone think Jeff Garcia left in him? Could he possibly be a better QB than Shaun Hill, even at this stage in his career? I know the 49ers are pretty locked in with Shaun Hill at QB, and I think he is the right choice between him and Smith, but I think if this team has another losing season, it’s going to be because of a subpar quarterback performance. Or maybe the WR corps. I’m praying for Morgan to have a breakout year.
My worst nightmare: the 49ers passing game is inept, and teams stuff the box on every play just like last year, taking away the run game. Singletary says he is going to run to pass, but it’s got to go both ways. Teams have to be descent at both to have a good offense.
I think Jeff Garcia, even at this point in his career, is a much better QB than Smith or Hill.
But I also think that it just doesn’t make much sense, from a roster room and salary perspective, to sign him now. He wouldn’t pull a Brett Favre and be named the starter a day after signing, so it’d be a while before we’d be able to see a return investment on him, and it really just isn’t worth it to sign a 39 year old QB that isn’t a major upgrade.
My pessimism goes to the point of suspecting the sincerity of the pessimists.
He's always hurt
He started camp with a calf injury and his playing style puts in harms way often. A backup QB is his best career choice. That Oakland let him go likely means a good year for him as all ex-Raiders find success. My guess is Grandpa Al didn’t want Russell having a former starter breathing down his neck.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Parts of last night's pepperoni pizza and a little beer.. that is all he has left in him
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Anyone read the interview between Fooch and Football Outsiders?
1) How would you go about building a team position by position? in other words, which positions have levels of performance that are most related to winning/team DVOA?
Bill: It might be easier to start with what wouldn’t come first. Considering things like established replacement level, relative rate of return per dollar spent or point of draft value, and what we’ve observed the effects of injury to be on team performance, it’s pretty safe to say that we would put running back and tight end at the end of the list. It’s just too consistently easy to find guys who can do above-average work at those positions for cheap.
The cake is a lie.
by Sultan of Seitan on Sep 5, 2009 9:00 PM PDT reply actions
Yes
It was linked here earlier. I’d say that’s all pretty true.
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 6, 2009 12:47 AM PDT up reply actions
im sad
about Sheetz and DA BEAR and Ziggy’s fro’ but i’m glad Briggs is still around. I like that guy. Also RJF FTW. I like that guy too.
It was Johnny Hopkins, and Sloan Kettering, and they were blazin that s*** up everyday.
it's sooo haaardd to say good byee to yesterdaaaayyyyeeeee
It was Johnny Hopkins, and Sloan Kettering, and they were blazin that s*** up everyday.
by 49erLou on Sep 5, 2009 10:48 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
My two cents
Surprised about Kory Sheets because I do see a role he can play on the team albeit a limited roll. Watching a lot of preseason games this week, a good number of teams had a RB that was on the bubble so there is a chance Sheets could get PS because there is a number of RB free agents now available.
I’m not surprised about Alex Boone. Complain all you want about Barry Sims (I will too), Alex Boone did not distinguish himself from him. The argument about keeping Boone over Sims because of future upside really doesn’t have a strong foundation. Why would the 49ers keep Boone this season when it’s highly likely they bring in at least one guy clearing better than both players for next’s years squad? Take the player who help you the most this season and upgrade the position next year.
Bear Pascoe, by all reports performed poorly during camp and preseason. I’m surprised they cut both him and JJ Finely but I bet the thought is the team will lose one off waivers and add the other to the practice squad for insurance.
I’m glad the team kept both RJF and Briggs. Based on how Manny has performed this preseason the team may need to turn another OLB. Spikes gave Briggs his endorsement and any OLB that shows a hint of pass rush ability ought to be coveted as a pot of gold at this point.
Ricky Jean-Francois was my favorite player to watch in preseason. He’d come in the game and cause hell inside for 2-3 plays than by the 5th or 6th play of the drive he’d be gassed, less effective but you could see him trying really hard to chug from point A to point B. Anyways, there is a not so well known adage in the NFL . . . you can never have enough defensive lineman. RJF showed a bit of spark so most NFL teams would have bent over backwards to keep him.
I didn’t pay attention to Curtis Taylor much. I’ve read other peoples comments about solid performances so that should explain why he made the team. Michael Lewis concussion concerns should be a serious issue. If the trend doesn’t stop he may not make it far into the season so I do see the need for another safety on the team.
Offensive line was pretty garbage so understand a lot of those cuts. Hint to GM, keep upgrading . . . hire a consultant to scout the o-line cause for the most part you’ve spent a lot of picks without getting enough done.
Zeigler cut is “meh”, although Jason Hill wasn’t lights out. I do recall seeing Jason Hill on a few plays.
Overall I think this shows a heavy commitment to defense. Briggs, RJF and Taylor tell me this team want’s to be fully stocked at all defensive personal positions. The philosophy of this team might be more defense then power run instead of defense and power run. If they can find a pass rush they would be an elite defense.
Gee . . . thanks
We haven’t played one yet. Nor have we played a bad offense.
Maybe you need to spend more time defining “elite” so I would understand you? Stop Elite offenses? Like the Steelers did against Cardinals last year? Like the Bears shut down the Colts in 2006? If that’s the definition of an elite defense than possibly only 3 have existed in NFL history. Maybe you ought to define a scale so we can to avoid your constant sniper attacks.
“Elite”, I meant around top 5 NFL defense. If we had another pass rusher to put opposite of Haralson I think it’s a top 5 NFL defense. I don’t see any other holes holding them back.
I say
The verdict is out on Dashon Goldson, Dre’ Bly and Michael Lewis, a guy who can’t seem to stay healthy.
That’s three starters in our secondary, and I also think we need to take a long, cautious look at Nate Clements, but I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until we get into the regular season.
Pass rush wont magically make Michael Lewis stop getting hurt, and we have no idea how good Goldson is. Dre’ Bly could go one way or the other. The only positions on defense we can be considered above average in are ILB and possibly the DL.
Of course there are issues and question marks in the secondary but you can find that on almost any team. Have you seen enough in preseason to make you wager they won’t pull through over the bet that they will? I’m wagering the secondary will be commendable. The only guy to raise a red flag in preseason was Clemons.
Even top NFL defenses still have positions with issues. Hardly do see one that is perfect or strong at all levels.
You can't say "elite defense"
When the secondary is hinging on the flip of a coin and the pass-rush is negligent at best. I hope to see everything improved, but we wont be elite unless both the secondary and the pass rush develop more than projected.
The secondary performance is not at a flip of the coin proposition at this point. Considering the lack of pass rush they’ve done a good job in the preseason. Outside Clemons, who got lit up?
I did add the team needs to find a better pass rusher at OLB to be elite.
Are 2nd Team?
No, the defense wouldn’t even be good if our 2nd team secondary had to play the season. That’s goes for about anyone.
WAT..
Most of the 49ers second team DB’s are 3rd on any good defensive squad, outside of Clements.
Well, we're waiting....
You said
“Second team DBs are _ outside of Clements” inclluding Clements in the second team DBs but not in the _.
It’s just a grammar issue. Either way your statement is false.
Read the posts below in which you are asked to bring up a list.
I’ll insult the secondary, and I’ll question the secondary, but your statement is far from being true. We could be a lot worse, but we also have a ton of room for improvement. It is, by all means, a flip-of-the-coin.
U really think that?
Brown, Spencer & Smith would be someone’s 3rd string? Brown was fighting Bly for a starting spot; I think many teams would be happy with either he or Spencer as a #2 corner or first off the bench at worst. Hell, they may both be better than Clements now (a compliment to them both and shot at Clements level of play this preseason). Secondary won’t be a team weakness this season.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
I'd love for you to prove first..
How these DB compare to, lets say, the AFCE.
GO!
Well, we're waiting....
You mean the rookies playing the #2 and #3 CB spots for Miami?
NE, you mean these household names? Shawn Springs, Leigh Bodden, Brandon Meriweather and James Sanders
Ya, what a bunch of stalwarts. Proves my point. Take a look at other secondary rosters and ours doesn’t look bad in comparison.
The preseason isn't the only body of work we've seen from these guys
Everyone, save Dashon Goldson has seen significant playing time. And that means Goldson is flip-of-the-coin and can’t be used in an argument for or against a positive secondary save for his play in the preseason, which, while decent, left much to be desired in the area of play-making and being around the ball.
The point is about "Elites"...
Just who is Elite in the 49er defensive backfield? Clements? Maybe. Without a pass rush?
Clements does not change the field of play. He isn’t even in the true scheme he could excel in
If you have this much $$$ in one player that does not make a difference, it isn’t on him.
Well, we're waiting....
Wait, I think I'm trying to agree with you and you're arguing with me..
I was speaking more in terms of.. agreeing with you on the elite aspect but disagreeing on the 3rd string aspect, while also agreeing with you on.. wait… uh.. something.
Yeah it is, though.
Flip of a coin that Michael Lewis gets another concussion. Flip of a coin that Dashon Goldson is starting material. Flip of a coin that Dre’ Bly deserved his termination from the Broncos. Flip of a coin that Nate hasn’t just given up. Even without Nate in the equation it’s still either way.
Really?
Clements, I agree with you. Everyone else is fine. Spencer has yet to have a pass completed on him. Brown has been excellent in his two games. Bly has an INT, Goldson shows way more foot speed than Roman did and has actually helped break up passes.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Mainly..
Just concerned with Bly’s durability, Goldson’s football intelligence (love the athleticism) and of course, Michael Lewis’ durability.
I’m not worried about Bly, in part because we have Brown and Spencer. Usually a vet like him has one solid year after feeling slighted for being let go and/or used poorly by his former team. His vet savy and willingness to gamble for the INT gives us a new element. Goldson is certainly unproven. I’m confident with him but until the games count, all good and bad things are possible. As for Lewis, I hope he’s okay but he’s a solid guy tho not a play maker. I think Roman could do the same in his spot; just not FS again.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
I like Brown a lot.
I don’t have THAT many concerns with the secondary as I may let on, but I had a big problem with someone referring to our defense as “elite” with two Parys Haralsons.
Elite
Is a once every decade kind of thing to me. We’re not close to elite and don’t need to be to make the playoffs. Elite D is not even needed to win the SB but is needed to make up for poor showings in other areas. Example, the ’07 Giants had an elite pass rush but nothing else on their team was elite. None of the Pats title teams had an elite defense.
All said, I agree with you.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
I can't really believe this
Clements has looked awful.
Dre Bly just got cut by one of the worst defensive teams in the league. You think he’s a sure-fire solid second corner?
Goldson obviously hasn’t proven anything.
And Lewis is only solid but may not be able to play. IN that case we get Roman, who’s bad.
This looks like anything but a good secodnary to me.
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 6, 2009 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions
So Clemons is judged by his preseason, disregarding his history and Bly is judged by his history disregarding his preseason.
Not really.
Clements didn’t look so sharp last season either. Or rather, he made too many mistakes. He held strong against some good receivers, but looked utterly helpless against others. This is not what you want out of a starting corner.
As for Bly, it’s not like he’s had an amazing preseason showing. He had one or two above-average plays and was invisible the rest of the time, getting hurt what, three times?
He got the wind knocked out of him vs Oakland
Come on now, that’s not hurt. His name was rarely called, meaning he covered his guy. I think Bly has played well.
Your point about Clements is spot on tho. Anyone remember the Dallas game last year? The Saints game the year before? He’s being called and paid as the top corner. He has to do better than the other guys and he hasn’t
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
I do have to take last season into account, though..
Just like with Nate. Dre’ Bly was an intriguing player, but all the same he could go either way this season.
Bly
Is judged by his last few years. Yeah if you are aging and your play has slipped over the past few years I don’t see why you’d think that player all of the sudden improved because of a few preseason games. I don’t think Bly was that good in the preseason anyways.
Clements wasn’t good last year and hasn’t been good in the preseason. I’m not ready to say he’s done, but he’s certainly a biger question mark at the #1 corner than most team in the NFL.
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 6, 2009 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions
The thing about Nate is
He’s shown he CAN be good, I just don’t know if he has it in him. It’s more than likely mental and I’m not sure what’s up with it. One-hit wonder, maybe. I don’t know. I’m hoping he’s good, we’ll see in Arizona, wont we?
I tend to believe it's physical
When people start playing that mental card as an excuse it becomes apparent later on that it was physical issue.
I'm interested in
A) What scheme you want the Niners to run?
B) What scheme you think Clements would be best in?
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
4-3...
Based in the power and development of the front 4, which the 49ers really have the talent for.
The 49ers don’t have the talent for a 3-4. They don’t have an NT. A true NT.
Well, we're waiting....
Because..
It would emphasize the the strength of talent, rather than depending on scheme.
On the front 7. There is no proven backfield outside of Clements, and we all know why his play is diminished by the defensive scheme, predicated on the subpar 49ers 3-4.
Well, we're waiting....
Big nickel defense..
Was meant to hide talent in the trenches. You know that, right?
Well, we're waiting....
Don't know about that
Example: When Nate got beat Friday night, there was blitz about to sack the QB. Nate was the only guy who got beat. Worst of all was he got beat deep. And everyone was in man coverage. Seems his man gets open before anyone elses. it isn’t all pass rush with Nate which is the worry.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
If Nate is playing off his man..
Then I can throw anywhere I want to, including Nate’s way.
Well, we're waiting....
Nate wasn't so much off
As he got run by. And only him. Sounds like a Nate problem.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Nate's GOOD..
But he is behind a crap defense.
Nate’s SOLID.
But, insert same shit here..
Nate is a …
screw it
Well, we're waiting....
So
Who would start on the front 7 in a 4-3?
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 6, 2009 2:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Justin Smith on RT? ...
Best defensive player in the trenches, has great moves, etc.
But we need him to occupy blockers.
Well, we're waiting....
Hope you're right
I haven’t given up on him, but he’s played the worst of any starter in the back 7 during the preseason. He’s got more than crap around him so no excuses for getting beat in less than 3 seconds. He’ll certainly have the chance to prove the preseason doesn’t matter in game 1.
But drummer, no excuses for Nate. Not sure why you have so much love for him but if a player isn’t playing up to snuff he needs to be called on it, like him or not
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
You are drunk
They ain’t elite but they certainly aren’t shitty. #13 last season and I would expect a similar ranking with more INTs this season.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
A NT wouldn't suddenly
change the way Nate plays. Wouldn’t enable corners to get the jump on him over and over again.
Who knows?
Not that the pass-rush would be the thing making him worse, but it wont stop him from making huge mistakes. Just make them less evident. He’ll still get torched unless something changes.
Shut down DB's..
Close a Terrell Owens. Terrell Owens changes where the defensive line shots gaps
Well, we're waiting....
I'm saying..
If a QB sees a 1 on 1 with a dominant WR, that WR changes line play.
Well, we're waiting....
It isn't his fault..
Our fault is that we see him as a shutdown. He is good. Real good. But not what you build a d around
Well, we're waiting....
I'd agree with you if it were anyone other than Nate.
He seems in peak physical condition on every front.
I guess you hated Walt Harris too
Didn’t we grab him off the street after 10 NFL seasons?
I’m much more concerned about Clemons than Bly after watching the preseason. DB don’t follow the typical career arc. They have good years and awful years. Rod Woodson was a horrible 49er and was run out of town in the mid 90’s.
LOL..
Woodson had an impact with a Gannon led offense that led to a defense.
Well, we're waiting....
Don't forget his ring
In the great (or rather elite) Baltimore defense.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
LOL..
Here we go on about Clements, and then we forget how Woodson was on a desperate 49er team
Well, we're waiting....
I think they were too impatient with Rod
He was coming off his knee injury and getting old yet they put him at corner. Should’ve kept him in ’98 but move him to safety like Baltimore did. We blew that.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
And....
BAL’ts defense??? Prior to Woodson?
You can put Woodson with a BAL front d-line. Past his prime. Way past it.
Well, we're waiting....
You're forgetting
He made plays there. And the Baltimore D the years before 2000 was good not great. No playoff appearances.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
I don't hate Clements
I just don’t think he’s been very good the last year+.
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 6, 2009 2:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't really understand
The D-line is decent, the pass rush is suspect, the ILB’s are very good, and the secondary is filled with question marks. How does this add up to an elite defense?
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 6, 2009 12:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Read my original comment. If they can add another pass rusher it would be near the elite. A lot of posts about throw away comment.
I suppose it depends then
What pass rusher are we talking about? If it’s Demarcus Ware, maybe. But not just some situational edge rusher.
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 6, 2009 12:57 AM PDT up reply actions
No, I said good
I’m saying if we could carbon copy just a twin of Parys Haralson it’s would be enough. We don’t need a great pressure, just a little above average.
But Haralson himself is still unproven.
I mean, I have a ton of hope for the guy, but first you say “elite” and now you say “above average.” Can you define what you mean by elite because it seems to be different than what everyone else thinks..
I did
I said an top 5 NFL defense constituted “elite”. I’m willing to amend the definition of elite but still think this defense is close to being pretty damn good for NFL standards.
I certainly hope so.
But at this point, I don’t see it. I need to see Tarell Brown step it up, Nate Clements to show preparation, Dashon Goldson to show drive and intelligence and Michael Lewis to start double-padding his helmet.
+1
Even still I’m not sure the D is elite. The front 7 is still nothing special. Granted with another pass rusher they’d be pretty good.
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 6, 2009 1:08 AM PDT up reply actions
The front seven is frustrating for me.
I wish Aubrayo Franklin would [site decorum] decide if he’s good or not. He’s always decent enough for me to not want him gone. Ice, Smith, Willis and Spikes are good but still, the DT and both OLBs are question marks which is never good for a 3-4.
I'll say this
Only Justin Smith is a play maker on that defensive line. Everyone else is adequate but their is generally no weak link and we have a lot bodies to rotate which always helps.
To add
Ray McDonald is the only other above-average player on the line….. when it comes to run stopping.
RJF looks like he good be good, but that’s at least a year from now, which does nothing for now.
McDonald?
I thought he was more the pass rusher on the line.
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 6, 2009 1:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I dunno, I got a fortune cookie the other day
That clearly stated Ray McDonald was going to be a beast when it comes to stopping the run this season.
But in all honesty, he is great at shedding blocks and making the tackle in the backfield. Or at least, at the LOS.
He had a great preseason last year
Then a BS roughing the QB call on opening day followed by injury. He was missed last season on 3rd down pass rush.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
The defense was average last year
You think just another Parys Haralson would make it top 5?
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 6, 2009 1:03 AM PDT up reply actions
He had 8 sacks in part time effort. The defensive line looks improved from last year and no one had much success running against our 1st team unit.
I know
But they passed all over them. I think the rund D looks pretty good, but the pass D is the problem. I don’t see it being better than average. And while I think another pass rusher would help, I’d still say we’d be a fringe top 10 defense.
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 6, 2009 1:09 AM PDT up reply actions
They have played them..
Manusky has been around a while ya know, and this defense isn’t an overhaul.
Just go back a few games, like 20 or so.
Well, we're waiting....
I don't know drummer
I remember our elite Montana and Young offenses shredding some elite defenses in their day. I think the old saying is great offense beats great defense.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
What I was saying
Is that any elite defense struggles with an elite offense. So I don’t think any D could stop Walsh’s best offense on their best day.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Here is the point..
You need to stop the execution of elite payers in a system that is one of the most productive in the League. The 49ers don’t stop Elite QB’s or offenses. AZ is the closest they have failed to stop. Hell, put Nate Davis behind center in AZ. What weapons does he have there that he doesn’t have here, outside of Gore?
Well, we're waiting....
Isn’t stopping an elite offense limiting it to around 20 points instead of 30? Typically a big part of stopping an elite offense is dependent on a good running game and good special teams which is outside the defense.
I'd say a good defense
Is most important to stopping a good offense.
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 6, 2009 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions
That's not the point
It’s what constitutes an “elite” defense. Is it really shutting down an elite offenses on a constant basis?
No
I was just responding to your sentence, “a big part of stopping an elite offense is dependent on a good running game and good special teams which is outside the defense.”
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 6, 2009 1:04 AM PDT up reply actions
But those are huge factors
Even the Giants and Bears of the 80’s need offensive production to keep Walsh’s 49ers offense off the field to win. Our defense could be good, but if the offense is 3 and out and giving up field position the defense is going to suffer and give more points.
The Ravens of ’00 barely had an offense but great special teams that controlled field position for the defense.
I'll tell you
Even the Giants and Bears of the 80’s need offensive production to keep Walsh’s 49ers offense off the field to win.
This football phrase has never made a bit of sense to me. How does keeping them off the field help you? The less possessions they have, the less possessions you have.
The Ravens of ’00 barely had an offense but great special teams that controlled field position for the defense.
Special teams can be a big factor in field position but an even bigger factor is the defense itself. If they don’t allow many first downs then teams will usually be facing long fields at the start of drives.
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 6, 2009 1:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Your first point
If you have the lesser of the two offenses, you’d prefer the limited possessions and hope to execute flawlessly with yours while hoping your opponent becomes impatient with their limited possessions. It’s a smart strategy when you’re the underdog. It also keeps the score down which allows you the better opportunity to keep up. The 1990 Giants did this to beat (barely) both the Niners and Bills, two superior teams. The ’03 Panthers did this to beat a superior rams team in St. Louis.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Yeah
It’s definitely a smart strategy when your the underdog. But I don’t see why with two equal teams, it helps to “keep the ball out of the offense’s hands”. It really doesn’t make much of a difference.
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 6, 2009 1:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Fair point
It typically is lower risk for turnovers if you’re a big field position coach. It also gives your D fewer reps in a game which tends to pay off over the entire season. But yes, if equal you should run your stuff as your talent allows.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Good point about the offense
Ditka’s Bears never could handle the Niners but Parcells’ NYG were the best a controlling TOP and limiting the number of plays the Niners could get. It was always frustrating.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
I'm getting that feeling again
That you want to debate over nothing. I don’t think I was disagreeing with you. Great offense beats great defense, or it should on most days. Our D is not great but it was #13 last season having to support a turnover prone offense. It also did fairly well vs AZ. What would move it into the top 10? A big time pass rusher. They still wouldn’t be elite but it could be championship worthy.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Marino lit up the '85 Bears
Also the ’85 Bears and ’00 Ravens played a schedule chalked full of awful offenses. Teams that would have died to have even Shaun Hill (28th ranked DVOA) in at QB.
Jesus Christ.
I just found out you can cycle through new posts with keyboard shortcuts.. It’s why I’ve always avoided these hellishly long threads. I’m special.
Note: I kind of always knew you could do it, I just never uh.. tried.
As an idiot I'll ask
How do you do that? (the keyboard shortcuts)
by Brendan Scolari on Sep 6, 2009 12:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Well..
C will cycle you to the next post. X will mark that post as read. Whereas Z will cycle you to the next post and mark the current post you’ve cycled to as read when you move on. Also, shift+a will mark all posts as read.
Not a problem.
I said to myself “I’m sick of tiny scrollbars.” So I decided that I would either A. Shut all of you up somehow or B. Figure out the shortcuts. And aw shucks, I’ve grown to like (tolerate) you guys so.. I went with B.
STOP...
For a minute here guys. Lets put this all in one, because my browser is going crazy.
Well, we're waiting....
I'm trying
It doesn’t help that I haven’t slept in two days and have a ton of stuff to do in the morning augh! One of which is, you know, getting the Golden Nuggets up for all you ungrateful…. … friends.
You rock dude...
Props to you for keeping this place active. This is good shit. Rack you
Well, we're waiting....
Well, I just do my Nuggets..
Beyond that, Fooch is a machine when it comes to keeping this place active. Still, I like to think I filled in nicely the past day or two. :]
by James Brady on Sep 6, 2009 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Everybody who reads this thread..
REC the hell outta Ninjames.
Do it, or else…
Well, we're waiting....
Well this has been good
But I got my Nuggets scheduled (I cheated) and I’m gonna head to bed. I have like four articles for the magazine due tomorrow, an article for NFLTouchdown and.. well, to be honest, I’m waking early for coverage of the US Open… Night folks.
Ninjames..
You have done well, and I will let Fooch know that you carried the ball through the Labor Day weekend. Awesome job.
Well, we're waiting....
Why we can play with 2 TE's
Although we probably wont.
Raye like to bring the Fullback up to the line to serve the second TE’s blocking position.
I admit that I was puzzled by us not having two TE’s. Perhaps we will pick one up on wavers. I see us adding at least 2 players off wavers. By the way, we missed the ball on not signing Ellis.
As far as that 2nd blocking tight end goes, Robinson could easily serve that role. He is an outstanding blocker and can pop and release to catch passes in the flat. I would expect to see this quite often this year.
Oh yeah, one more thing. Hurry up and learn the playbook N. Davis, you are clearly our best QB.
sheets, again
hate to keep reiterating this, but how in the hell is this gonna be a smash mouth run first team without the depth and talent that cory sheets would have given us at rb? doesn’t make sense. he’s been more productive than coffee so far. we can’t let sheets get snatched up so he can run all over us when he plays us.
"There is no pressure. Pressure only exists when you're not prepared."
-The Samurai
lol
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
Banned in 13 comments!!!!
lolololololol
Care to argue a point that he’d get more than five? Kory Sheets wouldn’t even dress for gamedays, do you not understand that?
Don't see y not
He’s the most dangerous person we had in open field. He would have dressed.
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
Banned in 13 comments!!!!
Is Gore or Coffee as dangerous in the open field?
If so I apologize I am greatly mistaken. I really don’t remember where this combo started but, I would have kept Sheets and released Rossum.
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
Banned in 13 comments!!!!
That's fine, but it still brings up the question
How much Sheets would play. There wouldn’t be room for him to dress. Coffee and Gore are our running backs, and Michael Robinson is good catching out of the backfield. Sheets is an explosive player, but plenty of teams passed him up and plenty more are going to. He just doesn’t fit, there’s no room, and he wouldn’t get more than a few carries a season. I wish we had him, but we don’t. Keep that in mind, I was all for Sheets, but I understand the reasoning.
With ROssum gone he coul have been the KR/PR
Or Robinson could have been the KR/PR and Coffee the 3rd RB. I think that Sheets would be a better addition and more useful after Frank and Beans wear down a defense!
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
Banned in 13 comments!!!!
Not true.
Sheets returned one kick, right? We can’t gather from that one kick that he’d be GREAT at it, and who knows if he can return punts in the NFL? Several players state that being a punt returner is one of the hardest things to do in the NFL.
And no, the team was set on Robinson being the third back. I like Robinson on special teams, but if you think he should be the one returning kicks for our future you’re delusional.
The only serviceable alternative to Rossum right now is Micheal Spurlock. I also said we could cut Rossum for this purpose, but it still remains Sheets would not get any playing time. This isn’t Madden where you look and see “Oh hay Sheets has 94 speed—lets put him at KR/PR and he’ll do great!”
There is no way
That a head coach is putting an undrafted rookie out there to return kicks when that wasn’t even his primary job in college. That has turnover written all over it. Not gonna happen.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Robinson can return the kicks Sheets is that scat back
That helps wear a defense down late
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
Banned in 13 comments!!!!
No it wouldn't be he doesn't have the speed or agility he is more of a power runner
Now we have two pwer runners to wear a defense down all game, I guess Robinson will come in and run circles around a tired defense, oh wait he doesn’t have that ability!
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
Banned in 13 comments!!!!
More productive that Coffee?
Not quite. We all wanted Sheets on the roster but let’s not elevate the man’s resume. Let’s just get him on the PS and hope he keeps putting in the work to get better. He would then be an injury away from getting called up.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
An update from Barrows
As expected, undrafted rookies Kory Sheets and Alex Boone have been placed on the 49ers’ practice squad. I’ll add more names as they become available …
Many of these cuts have me scratching my head,
especially considering the people they kept.
"Part, fools!
Put up your swords. You know not what you do."
aren't you glad you're not a fan?
AKA.............Optimist Prime
"Me, I want what's coming to me" And what's that? "The world Chico, and everything in it"
Banned in 13 comments!!!!
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