McNabb to the Rams?
by gbears16 on Jan 20, 2010 8:59 AM PST
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PrintI am going to start this off by saying this came from ESPN NFL Rumors section and I know that all these are just speculation and most of the things said on there will never happen. That being said it has been speculated that since Kevin Kolb's and McNabb's contracts end at the end of next year that the Eagles may try to trade McNabb and keep Kolb for much cheaper. I would provide a link to the page but many of you are not ESPN Insiders and it would only take you to the NFL Rumors page.
The Rams seem to one of the suitors trying to get McNabb and they also have their eye on Vick. As of right now if one of the two were going to go to the Rams it would most likely be Vick since McNabb could threaten to retire rather then play for a 1-15 team. The Rams also have the number 1 pick overall and they could possibly take a QB but most predictions point to them taking Suh.
The Rams have a lot of holes to fill on the roster but assuming they draft Suh and trade for either McNabb or Vick would this make them a possible contender in the West? They seem to be lacking at many of the skill positions mainly receiver and in the secondary. If they are able to keep Atogwe and draft a decent defensive back that could make their defense fairly good with Long and Suh anchoring the line and James Laurinaitis emerging at linebacker. I am wondering whether you guys think this will make the Rams at least a .500 team if not a contender in the West?
I believe that if they draft decently, not great, but decently that this move will only make them a .500 team. There are too many holes that need to be filled and depth that needs to be added. However, I do believe that making this move will make them a couple pieces away from competing for the division again. Also with the identity that the Rams have right now and lack of skill at the wideout position, I believe that Vick would be the better addition because he is a dual threat. I am not saying in anyway that he is the better overall QB. McNabb is a much better QB but he has become more of a passing QB rather than a mobile QB. In fact in seems as though he has become a little fragile as of late and behind that line I do not think he would last. I think having Vick and Jackson in the backfield would make them much like the Titans. I know Jackson is not as good as CJ but Vick may be better then Young.
Anyway I know this is all about the Rams but I was wondering if the Rams were somehow able to get McNabb, if you guys think we would need to worry about them for the divisional title or if they need a lot more help to even think about winning the division?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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I would rather the 49ers have McNabb
49ers could use McNabb
A 34 year old QB past his prime
who has only just figured out how to throw the ball instead of running. No thanks.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
34-year old QB past his prime
that’s leaving the system that he’s been tremendously successful in that struggles to be accurate. No thanks.
Jason Hill is turning the corner!
Actually, he hasn’t been particularly inaccurate in six years (minus one injury riddled year in 2006. He’s going to be in the Hall of Fame, and he’s still performing at a high level. He also appears to be healthier than he has been in quite some time. He’s a very, very good quarterback who is still playing quite well. There are plenty of reasons not to want him, but performance fear shouldn’t really be one of them.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 20, 2010 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
But McNabb is amost a shoe-in for missing at least 2 games in a given season.
by Hoopers Judge on Jan 20, 2010 1:43 PM PST up reply actions
I do think he deserves to go to the HOF
McNabb—14 games, 267/443, 60.3 completion percentage, 22 TDs, 10 INTs, 10 fumbles, 243 yards per game.
Alex Smith—10 games, 225/372, 60.5 completion percentage, 18 TDs, 12 INTs, 3 fumbles, 213 yards per game.
And people think Alex Smith is a horrible QB and are drooling over McNabb when his stats are not all that much better.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
Most of Smith's passes are dump downs and 3rd down passes that are short of the first.
Compare the offenses. And McNabb played with a rib injury. I don’t want McNabb, but let’s not call Smith what he is not.
Tribute to #44...............The Elmira Express!!
I'm not calling Smith a future HOF or even a better QB than McNabb
just saying that McNabb’s numbers this year don’t justify Niner fans getting giddy at the prospect of having him here.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
It wouldn't be his stats, it would be more like, tired of waiting on Smith.
Tribute to #44...............The Elmira Express!!
Haha and most of McNabbs passes aren't dump downs?
Most of the Eagles passes are short little screens, with the occasional deep pass to Jackson
by sanfranfanmdk on Jan 20, 2010 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
I would say that at LEAST 50-60% of McNabbs yards
come on screens, mostly to Westbrook lol
by sanfranfanmdk on Jan 20, 2010 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
Well, since Westbrook wasn’t even active for 8 games this season, that’s a fairly ridiculous statement. And even if you don’t include DeSean Jackson, McNabb’s second leading receiver this season was his tight end (who would not be getting screens). And around 2300 of his total yards went to actual receivers not named DeSean Jackson this season, with his running backs accounting for only around 500 yards.
In fact, what you just said might be one of the most ridiculous things I’ve seen all day. Good job.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 20, 2010 5:29 PM PST up reply actions
Well maybe if I was only talking about THIS year...
but I live on the East coast and have seen many Eagles game through the years, and his favorite target is in fact Westbrook, so actually it isn’t a ridiculous statement. Thanks though
by sanfranfanmdk on Jan 20, 2010 7:02 PM PST up reply actions
McNABB hasn't had a true number 1 WR SINCE TO, and he still puts together great years.
Tribute to #44...............The Elmira Express!!
And also, McNabb’s stellar Y/A numbers over the last five years don’t support the “screen pass” theory. With a league average completion percentage, his yards per completion have to be really high if he’s going to have a well above average yards per attempt number. And you don’t get really yards per completion by throwing screens all the time.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 21, 2010 12:46 AM PST up reply actions
Hell no he isn't, I hope no one is ridiculous enough to think he is.
He is a number 2, can’t take the punishment for a 100 catch season.
Tribute to #44...............The Elmira Express!!
Oh...
and they do have a thing called a tight end screen, which the Eagles have used many times.
by sanfranfanmdk on Jan 20, 2010 7:05 PM PST up reply actions
So he’s thrown for nearly 20,000 career yards off of screens? Westbrook alone doesn’t even have 4,000 career receiving yards. So McNabb has really thrown for almost 16,000 yards on receiver screens?
I might have missed a few points in my comment above, but the amount of hyperbole in the statement “I would say that at LEAST 50-60% of McNabbs yards ome on screens, mostly to Westbrook lol” is still almost comical.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 20, 2010 7:08 PM PST up reply actions
re: McNabb's inaccuracy
He has historically had very good O-Lines (Philly’s O and D fronts are always above average), his receivers get a lot of YAC, and the Eagles run (and have run for years) a West Coast Offense. You would expect him to have a completion percentage in the 65% range, but he’s never hit that mark in his career. In fact, he’s only had 4 seasons (out of 11) with a completion percentage over 60%. And for reference, his career yards per attempt are more than a yard less than Steve Young’s (6.9 vs. 8.0)—also a guy who played in the WCO.
Jason Hill is turning the corner!
However, if you look at his career + stats, his completion percentage has been virtually league average for essentially his entire career, and only the slightest bit below league average in most seasons. I’m not saying that his accuracy has been ideal, but practically speaking it has neither been a particular boon nor a marked deficiency for him.
He has, however, been exceedingly good at not throwing interceptions. Which can be read either as 1) a testament to his decision making or 2) an indication that his completion percentages actually bely his true accuracy level (or, of course, a combination of both).
Picking on McNabb for his accuracy is the same as picking on McNabb for nits. I’m not going to defend him particularly, because it’s not been a strength of his in a practical sense. But I certainly don’t condone penalizing him for it when it’s basically a league average skill that he more than compensates for by having a number of other highly above average skills.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 20, 2010 10:02 PM PST up reply actions
To elaborate on how good he’s been at not throwing interceptions: For his career he’s been almost 10% better at than Peyton Manning and Drew Brees, almost 5% better than Tom Brady and Philip Rivers, a full 20% better than Ben Roethlisberger, and about 15% better at it than Kurt Warner.
3% better than Steve Young was.
Not as good as Montana, though.
(I did this just by looking at the INT%+ stat, where 100 is league average – my math coming up with the percentages is a little rough, but not in a particularly misleading way.)
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 20, 2010 10:26 PM PST up reply actions
Man, I like these + stats a lot. According to them, Montana is pretty definitively better than Brady. Case closed.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 20, 2010 10:28 PM PST up reply actions
Did you check the fumbles?
McNabb coughs it up a lot.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
It’s hard to say, because it’s my understanding that fumbles have a lot to do with the frequency a quarterback gets hit and less to do with individual factors. Now, I could be wrong about the correlative nature of these things, but there’s no denying that – at least on very base level – if you get hit less then you fumble less. And this season, McNabb actually got hit a lot. And watching the playoff loss to Dallas, I kind of felt like I could see why.
Believe it or not, Smith was only sacked on 5.6% of his pass attempts this year (22), while McNabb was sacked on 7.3% of his (35). I can only assume that the QB hit numbers reflect the same trend (I have to assume because I don’t know where to find them!).
So to some extent, and I don’t know exactly how much, their fumble numbers get closer when you equalize them. Give Smith another 75 pass attempts and 13 sacks, and he fumbles a few more times, too. McNabb’s still look worse, it would seem. But not as bad they originally did.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 21, 2010 12:43 AM PST up reply actions
(This kind of thing would be a great opportunity to use Florida Danny’s turnover stat, but I don’t know where he is!)
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 21, 2010 12:43 AM PST up reply actions
I think McNabb also has some of the same problem
as Aaron Rodgers. Both of them hold on to the ball too long trying to make a play out of it.
I think Smith has been drilled over and over to get rid of it if it’s not there which is why he throws it away down the sideline so often.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
It's different, Smith holds the ball looking down at one WR
Rogers at least goes through his projections.
Tribute to #44...............The Elmira Express!!
What does that matter
Smith fumbles and throws more INT’s
Tribute to #44...............The Elmira Express!!
Alex had one more INT than McNabb and 4 more than Rodgers.
Rogers fumbled it 10 times, Alex 3 times, McNabb 10 times.
So that’s 14 turnovers for Alex (11 INTs, 3 fumbles), 17 turnovers for Rodgers (7 INTs, 10 fumbles), and 20 turnovers for McNabb (10 INTs, 10 fumbles).
Smith still comes up ahead on on turnovers.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
Rodgers played 16 games..
To McNabb’s 14 to Smith’s 11.
Good to keep that perspective.
Well, we're waiting....
Fumbles
Aside from the TEN game, Alex Smith almost completely eliminated fumbles from his game.
I was very impressed by the fact that I didn’t hear any “small hands” [site decorum] all year.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Jan 23, 2010 12:06 AM PST up reply actions
McNabb's Y/att is a lot better, which is not trivial ...
But you make a good point. The difference is a lot smaller than you’d think, especially when you factor in McNabb’s fumbles.
And McNabb is playing with a much better o-line.
His consistent big-play ability gives him a substantial edge, but take away the o-line and that vanishes.
I’d temper that by saying that McNabb played in more games and actually got sacked at a considerably higher rate than Smith. Just by law of averages, his fumbles are going to look worse. I thought that QB fumble rates were highly dependent on sack (or hit) totals. I’d wager that Smith and McNabb are even much closer in fumbles.
Since I’m really digging this + stuff, here’s some important + stat data for McNabb and Smith in 2009.
DM (AdjY/A+): 118
AS (AdjY/A+): 93
DM (Comp%): 98
AS (Comp%): 98
DM (TD%): 113
AS (TD%): 111
DM (INT%): 109
AS (INT%): 96
DM (Sack%): 90
AS (Sack&): 103
It’s really not too close. Though Smith has some darn encouraging numbers there.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 20, 2010 10:36 PM PST up reply actions
It's a bit more complicated ...
however, since McNabb throws deep a lot. Their game plan is basically deep strikes and screens.
It’s really hard to tease the answer out of numbers because, odds are, McNabb gets hit a lot for the same reason his yards/att is so high – he throws downfield. That means he holds the ball longer. That means his line has to do a better job – heck, that means his line is doing a better job even if he gets sacked the same amount.
And it’s a synergistic thing: a QB who knows where the pressure is coming from and knows where his outlet receiver is, and has good awareness of the pressure, makes his line look good (say, Peyton Manning). A QB who has a tendency to hold on to the ball too long makes his line look worse (say, Aaron Rodgers).
But my feeling is that McNabb gets hit a lot because of the offense Philly feels gives them the best chance of winning: throwing the ball down the field a lot.
I just said this above, but it bears repeating
A QB who has a tendency to hold on to the ball too long makes his line look worse (say, Aaron Rodgers).
I think McNabb also has this problem (though not as much as Rodgers).
Favre also had the same problem—it looks to me like Rodgers picked up that habit from Favre.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
He has that problem because he doesn't force a lot of throws and he doesn't throw a lot of INT's.
Tribute to #44...............The Elmira Express!!
I'm sure he can throw deep as much as he wants
Just not accurately.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Jan 23, 2010 12:07 AM PST up reply actions
Just figured throwing instead of running? Not even close to being an accurate statement.
Tribute to #44...............The Elmira Express!!
I would have to think that the Eagles would want a first rounder
for McNabb—and not next year’s first round pick either.
That would leave the Rams without Suh, whom they desparately need. I think the most sense is the Rams acquiring Vick in the off-season and signing him to a two year deal.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will get picked in the first round.
You're forgetting that the Rams have the #1 pick in the draft
If they’re trading that pick, they’d better be getting better than a 34 year old McNabb. Point being, the Rams may be giving up the first pick in the second round, but they’re NOT trading the #1 pick in the draft for McNabb.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 20, 2010 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
Most people don't want that pick.
I chose water over wine... Jars of formaldehyde... think of all the things I missed... Why'd you make me a scientist?
by James Brady on Jan 20, 2010 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
I would imagine the Eagles would want S Jackson and not the number 1 overall
The Rams have nothing to offer unless they will part with their 2nd and 3rd. Even then, there would be no point in making that type of trade because the Rams would still suck.
Tribute to #44...............The Elmira Express!!
Let the Rams keep Boller as the starter....
he is the best player for the OTHER team lol
Vick to the Rams makes more sense
The Rams O-line got Bulger, Boller and Null brutalized all year. How they only used three QBs this year is amazing given the beating they took. Vick, if he still has the ability to run, might be the only QB who could stay intact behind their line.
On a related note, ESPN has updated the McNabb story and say the Niners could be a fit. Apparently Kawakami says it would make sense but the ESPN writers seem to disagree. They say the move would destroy Smith’s confidence and also most likely result in changing the offensive scheme to a more West Coast style to fit McNabb. I would have to agree with ESPN on this one. I do not think giving up what they say would be a second round pick for McNabb would be a very good idea.
I want me some Buster
I never really like the whole “destroy his confidence” stuff. His ego might be hurt, but he’s spent his whole life accepting competition and the second half of his NFL career fighting for his job. If his confidence is still intact after that, signing somebody new isn’t going to dent it.
The offensive system is a fair point, but it also might not be fair to assume that McNabb wouldn’t be capable of playing in a different system.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 21, 2010 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed with you about confidence ...
… but more to the point it just seems incredibly rudderless.
We’re NOT the Vikings, who coming into this year had almost all the pieces in place except for a QB.
“Oh, let’s make an offer for Warner! SMith’s the guy! No, let’s go for McNabb! We’re a power run team! No, we’re a shotgun passing team!” etc etc etc.
Bill Walsh didn’t throw his system out when Steve Young struggled in his first year as a starter for the Niners. He didn’t panic and bring somebody else in. Jimmy Johnson didn’t freak out when Troy Aikman sucked as a rookie, and was pretty damn mediocre his second season. No – he said, “This is my guy. This is the system I’m building.”
So many fans seem willing to change, just for the sake of change. I don’t know if this is (understandable) frustration with Smith, impatience, or what.
It’s hard to look at McNabb and feel that, on the Niners with our personelle, he’d be a lot better than Smith was this year. And he’s 34, so you get, a year, maybe two, as his skills decline, and then where are you?
Agree with you
Eagles fans are having discussions about whether to get rid of McNabb or keep going with him – reminds me of the Alex Smith debate here.
However, I don’t know of any teams that seem to be pursuing McNabb. I don’t think he’s going anywhere this off-season. Vick will leave for certain, but Buffalo or Cleveland (or Washington) seems more likely than St. Louis.
The Eagles seem to be trying to shop McNabb rather then teams pursuing him. If they make the decision to stick with Kolb, then they will try to get something for McNabb rather then let him walk in free agency. The most likely scenario I see if he were to leave is him going to a team that has QB issues and plans on drafting a QB this year. That way the rookie can sit behind a veteran and mentor while McNabb plays out the rest of his career.
I want me some Buster
Well, of course Bill Walsh didn’t throw out the offensive system when Steve Young struggled in his first year as a starter. George Seifert was the coach!
I agree with you, though.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Jan 21, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
If McNabbles ‘n’ bits goes anywhere, he’ll go to Cleveland I bet. He’d be an ideal guy for Quinn to sit behind and learn from for a couple of years. But I think he will be an Eagle nest season personally.
Tim Tebow = 1,432,219 season tickets next year. Who wouldn't pick him in the 1st round with those projections?
PHI fans tend to overreact when it comes to these things.
McNabb and Reid probably aren’t going anywhere.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Jan 23, 2010 12:08 AM PST up reply actions
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