Mike Singletary Approval Rating: Pick Your Smith edition
by David Fucillo on Nov 16, 2010 7:01 AM PST
in 49ers Approval Ratings
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And we're back for the latest edition of the Mike Singletary approval rating. We last conducted these rankings two days after the 49ers victory over the Broncos in London and it's interesting to note that Singletary received arguably his worst rating ever as head coach after this victory. Normally he gets a post-victory bounce, but this one saw him finish with 62% of voters giving him a 1 out of 10.
The 49ers are now coming off a game in which they got the victory but once again it seemed like the coaching staff was getting handled by the opposition for much of the game. The luck finally seemed to fall the 49ers way after a half season of a lot of bad luck (and bad play and bad coaching of course). The most notable instances are the Delanie Walker pass interference penalty and the two times Brandon Gibson decided to cut east/west, when north/south would have gotten him at least one first down and maybe a second.
The Walker penalty wasn't a horrendous call, but the 49ers did benefit big time from that. The Gibson plays though just boggled my mind. Gibson is only a second year receiver, so I guess these things will happen. But he certainly learned a huge lesson about field awareness and knowing where the chains are. If he converts even one of those first downs, it's entirely possible we're talking about a 49ers loss.
Of course, Mike Singletary has no control over a knuckle-headed play by an opposing wide receiver. What I do find myself wondering is this: say the 49ers start to find themselves benefitting form good luck. They played horribly at times in the first half of the season but they also had a lot of things bounce badly for them. If things start to bounce their way a little more frequently this team could find itself right in the thick of the playoff race (or at least more so than now). If the team battled back, would anybody be surprised to see Mike Singletary back at the helm next year?
If somehow Troy Smith proves himself to be the answer this season and this team fights its way back into the playoff picture, are Troy Smith, Mike Singletary, and Mike Johnson a package deal for the 49ers? I suppose that sounds a little ridiculous. But if this team does in fact turn the corner and salvage this season, I can already picture the headlines when Jed York decides to keep Singletary, but they have a closed-door meeting to discuss "the future."
If the 49ers turn things around (still a bit of a long shot) it might be difficult for Jed York to look for a new coach, whatever the reason is for the turnaround. It's all mindless speculation on my part at this time. I suppose we should just ride out the season and take it from there.
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You're talking about 3 close wins against OAK, DEN, STL
Let’s be real here. The 49ers have far too much talent to be this bad. Bad breaks or not, they’re not supposed to be anywhere close to 3-6.
And let’s wait til Troy Smith plays some good defenses before we start anointing him as the Chosen One, will we? He still looks like a journeyman QB to me, and one who throws up some jump balls as well (that will turn into picks against better defenses).
Even if the 49ers make the playoffs, this team isn’t going anywhere until they change their coaching.
I don't discredit your theory about the jump balls...
but we do have good receivers. It’s not as if our guys can’t fight for a catch and come down with it. They might not be big, powerful guys, but they can certainly bring down a jump ball in a crowd on occassion.
by 9thevolution on Nov 16, 2010 7:19 AM PST up reply actions
So much this!
You have to give your receiver a chance to make a play. It’s the NFL, people are not always going to be open or appear open. Give the receiver a chance, something Alex never does. So far these guys have shown the ability to make a play if you put it in their proximity. That VD touchdown that was called back was about as good a catch as I’ve ever seen going up into traffic.
I'm in full agreement with each of your statements.
Given the circumstances — the team’s poor record, the continuance of stupid penalties game after game, the continuance of poor game management decisions, the general lack of performance improvement, et. al. — it seems to me that this coaching staff has proven its incompentence without any doubt. I very much like Singletary as a human being and believe that he is trying to do the right things, but he simply doesn’t have the skill set or necessary coaching track record to be a successful NFL head coach. I’m not slamming him as a person but simply stating what I believe to be an absolute fact.
As Niner (or any other team) fans what we want is a sense of HOPE — the belief that the team (management, coaches, players, and support staff) is doing everything that it can to be successful. To be successful ANY BUSINESS must have the right people in place to “make it happen.” You either believe that you have those people in place or you don’t. If you don’t then you have little sense of hope. Although I have been a Niner fan since I was ten years old (i.e., for 60 years), I have had no significant sense of hope for this team for the last ten years because of the continuing poor management decisions made — poor coaching selections, poor draft choices, et. al. In my view, appointing Singletary (with his lack of any qualifying experience) as head coach was simply another in the continuance of poor decisions. In order for us to have hope for this team we need to believe that the coaches have the ability and experience to be successful. I have not and do not believe that to be the case with Mike Singletary. Thus, I hope that he will be replaced at the end of the season with a compentent and experienced head coach; and, in my view, my feelings in this regard have NOTHING to do with the team’s final record this year.
by 49erFanSince1950 on Nov 16, 2010 8:03 AM PST up reply actions
3
He’s holding onto a 3 rating in my book only because he was smart enough to know you stick with the hot hand, especially when the rest of the team is rallying around him.
OT, but after the TD in the 4th quarter, it was nice to see a QB getting fired up and the rest of the team responding to that. You can’t ignore that and go back to a guy who’s turning the ball over quite often.
3
I went 3 too. I think I’ll always be 3 now, regardless of wins and losses. I don’t think he’s so bad to be a 1 or a 2.
1 out of 10 would suggest he literally has nothing to offer. 8-8 last year, a winning record in the second half of 2008, the saviour of Vernon Davis’s career, and a decent draft this year when it was his finger on the trigger, would suggest he has something to offer. I just don’t want him to be the head coach of the San Francisco 49ers anymore. I don’t think he’s good enough – I believe he has proved that now, just as Alex Smith has proved he isn’t good enough either.
I suspect the replacement of both with high-quality candidates would be all we need to make the jump to a team that can dominate a wretched division which is there for the taking by any of its four hopeless teams. If we don’t, Sam Bradford will.
Proud member of the legendary David Carr thread and the famous Green Thread.
7
The only reason expectations were so high this year was because of Sing. As far as I am concerned, he has made two serious mistakes so far.
(1) Putting so much faith in Alex Smith. Although it was understandable, until game 3. Any other team would have pulled him by then.
(2) Sticking with Jimmy Raye. He drew up good generic game plans, but he definitely didn’t look at each players ability when designing the plays. And he was way too predictable.
The reason for such high marks are:
- He corrected the situation with Raye and Alex.
- He kept the team motivated even though they had a soul crushing season the first 5 games. Loads of games lost in the 4th. No faith in their Offense. Yet they have stayed positive and come out trying to make plays.
I know many have said the penalties and execution are Sings fault. I disagree. He has stressed his 5 points. He posted them all over the locker room, all over his office, and I am sure he is drilling it in their heads during practice. #1, wasn’t happening in the first 5 games. #2 covers penalties and route running, catching balls you need to, throwing the ball where it need to be (aka Not at the defender’s)
Finally, I feel the coaches can only prepare the players. Our game plans have worked. Our players just aren’t executing, or they are doing so very poorly. That wasn’t the coaching staff. Sing didn’t tell them to jump offside. Anyway, I like the team now that Alex is gone. Bolster the D and we are great. And in case you all forgot…
1. Total Ball Security
2. Execute
3. Dominate the Trenches
4. Create Great Field Position
5. Finish.
Hitting the sack,
I am on nights, will respond in the evening to any flames :p
Meh
I wouldn’t go as high as seven, but that’s a good objective opinion on the situation. It took too long to make the change from Alex and if he wasn’t injured, it wouldn’t have happened and we might be looking at a 1-8 record. The offense needed a spark and Troy gave them that, good decision on Sing’s part to not go with Carr, but we knew they weren’t happy with him.
The players aren’t executing properly, but it’s also the positional coaches job to make sure they know their technique, which has been lacking all season. If the positional coaches aren’t doing their job right, that falls on the HC. You can’t fire your entire coaching staff mid-season, but you need to make sure they’re doing their jobs right. This also plays into dominating the trenches, which we haven’t done on either side of the ball except the 4th quarter against the Saints. That obviously disappeared in the last two minutes, just like every other game this season.
We can’t get great field position because our return game is still lacking spark, although it’s much better. We also aren’t getting turnovers like we should be.
Finishing lies solely on the HC. Yes, the players have to do their job, but Sing has yet to realize that our 2-minute defense is awful. Prevent only works if you’re up by two TDs. And rather than going for the throat in the 4th quarter, we usually go soft and try to kill the clock with poorly designed running plays.
by 9thevolution on Nov 16, 2010 8:35 AM PST up reply actions
I disagree with a couple points
- Finishing. Our D has always been set up as a “bend but don’t break” Defense. We don’t have shut down corners, and that isn’t Sings fault, he hasn’t had time to fix all our issues. He has addressed some of the worse, but he can’t isn’t solely responsible for that either. Our D has given up only 22.3 points per game. If I remember correctly, their goal coming into the season was less than 23. Our offense on the otherhand, under Alex, was averaging 15.5 points per game (11.3 if you remove the Defensive TD and ST TD). He has only scored over 22 once. It is hard for me to blame the D, the best D in the league allows 15.9 points per game. Statistically, Alex still loosing with them. Also, we have had a lot of turnovers nullified from shadey officiating and penalties. Forced fumbles and sacks called back for “roughing passer” because they have ducked their head into the hit (Orton), INTs nullified as PI even when it was the offensive player conducting the PI (Clements). Get into penalties later.
- Special teams. Return game is much improved over last year. Ginn looked great early and got injured, the back-up wasn’t as good, and since coming back, Ginn seems afraid to get hurt. But he still seems the best option. Moving Mays in also improved the play. I think ST has been the most improved part of the team this year actually. Not much we can change until offseason anyway.
- The penalties and positional coaches. Again, he isn’t the one committing them. A lot of them have come from our rookies. And, they are rookies. I am sure he is getting on their case, but they just aren’t experienced. We sortof have depth there, but the best players are on the field, which is Sing’s job to ensure. Maybe it was expecting too much to have Smith start the season, but I think he is our biggest penalty offender on O. On D, they have been asked to carry the team because of our underperforming O. They are playing the their asses off, taking risks, trying to win the game. I think once they can cool off cause our O can actually score, they will play smarter. But as it is, they are playing with tons of heart, and less brains, IMO. Hard to correct that without fixing the O. Need to take some pressure off.
Miscalculation correction
13.2 ponits per game, if you remove Defensive TD and ST TD.
Sing was never the reason of my optimism
I was starting to feel good about things because of the talent we had on this team. I thought the defense would improve upon last year and especially the offense. I figured even with Alex at QB, he could do good enough with the weapons given. Sing made a lot of these same coaching mistakes last year as well with game management decisions, bad preparation and lack of in-game adjustments. I had hoped he would have figured it out this year after being able to look back and correct mistakes, but he has shown 0 ability to do that. He has done some positives for this team and I wont take that away from him, but as for my rating, he gets a 1 because that’s how bad I want him done as head coach.
I totally disagree with game prep being an issue
The only game we lost this season from coaching was KC. The only other game besides KC we lost by more than 3 was Seattle, and if you were to rewatch that game, you could see the entire team deflate after the offense continually stalled. The D had like five or six 3 and outs. 14 points came directly off Alex INTs (one pick 6, one INT gave them the ball in the red zone). Se came out and played a close game against NO, ATL, and PHI. The D played awesome in those games too, but the O couldn’t score. Look at my replay to 9thevolution above, our team under Alex averaged 15.5 with Alex. The Offense 11.3. Players execution (primarily Alex’s IMO) and turnovers lost us most of our games, with the exception of KC.
Game management, hard to dispute with TOs being called early. But it rarely was the cause of our losses. He used them to mitigate stupid errors (primarily with confusion on Offense, which was already playing horrible) and unprepared D. He thought they would help the team when he called them, but our players haven’t been executed and therefore they make his TOs useless.
I will give you in-game adjustments, but again, that usually falls on OC and DC. Everyone thinks Sing is too involved their anyway, so why would you blame him for lack of adjustment by the OC/DC.
I think he has done great things for this team. The team still seems behind them and seems to still have heart despite their record. The worst decision he has made was sticking with Alex, but it was the most logical based on the alternatives. Nobody knew Troy would be this good (except me and a couple others here at NN :p ). But if Troy stuck Sunday, people would blame Sing again. Again, the biggest thing we need right now is time to develop. Firing Sing will likely just set us back. MJ is working out very well as OC, but again needs time, he is still working with Raye’s system. Manusky, he met his goal of under 23 points per game allowed, and although I hate giving up yards at the end of the game, you have to play prevent and hope your front guys can create pressure. That is the smart thing to do.
Basically, I hope Jed takes a less emotional look at Sing’s performance than you. That isn’t meant to be offensive, so I apologize if it sounds that way. But honestly, most of the negative comments about Sing have been unjustifiable, speculative or just wrong.
miscalculation correction
The Offense averages 13.2 points per game.
10
He’s gotten this team turned around for the second time in as many years.
He had the guts to can Jimmy Raye, call up Troy, keep the guys in their season even when everyone else had counted them out.
Wade Phillips, Chan Gailey and John Fox haven’t been able to do any better with their squads, and I don’t think anyone considers Singletary a coach of even being in the same conversation as those guys.
Keep doing what you’re doing, coach, and I’ll be rooting all the way through the playoffs.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
2
I will definitely give this to you: he corrected two terrible mistakes. But they arose because of his initial judgement.
One was his unjustified confidence in Alex Smith when it was obvious to someone who knows what a potentially great QB looks like that Alex Smith, even last year, did not have that potential. He was doing the same thing last year as this year — missing receivers, throwing out of bounds, lack of arm strength, no accuracy throwing long. Teams were playing 8 in the box and Smith had no ability to take advantage of it. Everyone blamed it on the O-line and/or Jimmy Raye. But Smith’s lack of skills were obvious even during the infrequent plays the O-line was holding things together and receivers were open. How many times did we see him overthrow or underthrow or not even see a wide open guy? Vs Troy Smith: how many times have you seen him be inaccurate? I remember one short pass in two games. That’s it.
The other was originally hiring Jimmy Raye as the offensive coordinator. He wasn’t just a bad play caller. He was disorganized, uncommunicative, and had no ability to unify the offense.
So we have to put those two fatal decisions on Singletary.
I didn’t give him a 0, because he chose Troy Smith over David Carr when Alex Smith got hurt.
But I didn’t give him a 3 because:
a. He is still not totally onboard with Troy Smith. Watch his interview from Monday. He seemed oddly depressed. No energy. And when asked about whether Trpy Smith was the Niners new starter he said, no, it’s a game to game decision. But if he wants the best player on the field he should have said — what Troy has proven to me and to the NFL he that he has the best skill set on this team to be the starting QB. If he continues to grow and learn, and we adjust to his style, and he understands what we are trying to teach him, then he could be a great QB in this league.
Why didn’t he say that? Because Troy Smith DOESN’T buy into Singletary’s offensive philosophy. He’s a gun slinger at heart. He improvises and takes chances when he has to — like all great QBs must.
But then the Niners suddenly become all about offense, and Singletary wants to become the Ravens. For that I’ll give Singletary a zero. The man STILL DOES NOT GET IT.
If we hire an offensive mind next year, like The Great Walrus, or Morningwehg, or even Greg Olson of Tampa who’s doing such a great job with two rookie WRs and a 2nd year QB, then he Niners can regain respect around the league, and we can hope for a good run, starting next year.
So all in all, a 2.
PS
Singletary could get a minus 10 if he downplays Troy Smith’s talents and prevents the Yorks from signing him to a multi-year deal. I would then consider his legacy one of complete blindness and failure.
It’s obvious he still has this thing for Alex Smith. I don’t know what the hell it is. But if he has any hope at all of saving his job, he’d better get behind the QBOTF that just stood tall on the field for us in the last two games. If he doesn’t, then he’s a dumber football guy than I could ever imagined.
Could it be there’s a big inside fight going on right now, with Singletary’s smash mouth philosophy running up against Mike Johnson and Troy Smith wanting to play modern offensive football? Maybe he’s freaked out and depressed because he’s losing control of the team from the inside?
All I’m saying is, something is not logical about his responses. Something odd is going on. But with how shut down the man is in front of the press and the fans, we may never know. All we’ll here is “I need to watch the film.”
Crap
I thought I was breaking some new ground with my response to your original comment, then I read your reply to your own comment and realize you brought up my main point below.
I think the whole “Singletary Smash Mouth Football” thing is really overblown. And I actually credit that whole thing with some of the reticence we’re seeing from the Coach- go back, if you can, and watch every interview, Q&A or presser where he’s asked about “3 yards and a cloud of dust”. He denies it every time.
All he’s been saying is that we’re not gonna switch to a spread offense overnight, we have one of the best backs in the league and the run game is essential to our gameplan. Of course, it’s hard to take him at his word when we watch the niners play… 3 yards and a cloud of dust, up the middle, every sunday.
So it sounds pretty ridiculous this whole time, until Troy steps in with the same offensive personnel as Alex and many of the same formations and plays, and actually starts throwing downfield. You can’t make the QB throw downfield if he doesn’t feel it’s there, and Alex never felt it was there- what is the OC supposed to do? Call some more run plays, try to stack the box for the next pass attempt.
Again, enter Troy, and suddenly the game plan seems genius. I actually think this will help Alex even more, seeing all the throws he didn’t see from under center and start realizing that some of those plays were there, he just wasn’t seeing them.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
All great points
However, doesn’t his faith in Alex become justified after seeing the #2 take those snaps against Carolina?
I mean, I will grant you that Alex makes Troy look like the second coming of Steve Young, but even Alex wasn’t bad enough to drop a game against the lowly Panthers.
See, it’s easy enough to criticize Sing during and after his decision to stick by Alex, and in retrospect, it was pretty boneheaded. But he knew what he had in Alex, and more importantly, he knew what he had in Carr. Of course he saw what Troy brought to the table, but if there were questions about his preparation 6 weeks into the season in London, there’s no way he would have been ready to go since game 3.
And this leads to one of my biggest gripes with our coaching staff, which is pretty minor in the grand scheme of things, but still annoying to the interested observer:
We never know what’s going on until it’s way too late to do anything about it.
Coach Sing values privacy like Ratto covets French Fries. We could have killed alot of this anti-Sing mentality by just explaining the fact that A) Carr Sucks B) Troy doesn’t know but three plays and C) Nate knows the plays, but runs them backwards on account of dyslexic being.
He might have also mentioned the fact that a major part of our tertiary (because calling them “Secondary” is giving them too much credit) was hobbled with an injury ALL FREAKING SEASON.
So, if he stays, it’s gonna be like this- he’ll get a 1 one week for making seemingly retarded decisions, then a 10 the next week because it turns out he knew what he was doing after all.
And, while we’re playing the what if game, let me throw this out there: What if Troy comes out against the Broncos and just lays an egg? Sing gets crucified quicker than you can say “wooden cross”. What if he plays Carr and Carr delivers the Carr Special? Wooden Cross. Alex in a sling? Wooden Cross.
The only solution? Genetically cloning Joe Montana and playing the test tube until it grows into a human.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
"Tertiary"
“Because calling them ‘Secondary’ is giving them too much credit”.
OMFGLMFAOWTF
..Hilarious. Thanks for that.
I found some of the quotes disturbing as well
Troy Smith was the greatest reason the 49ers won. Not MS. That press conference after the game sealed it for me. A guy puts up a gutsy performance, and the he tears him down the first chance he gets. Troy Smith is humbled enough, Vernon wasn’t. Sing seems to just want to take credit for every players success, and then blame them for every fault. That’s kind of a far accusation on my part but I think he’s doing this to re-assert his “leadership” abilities.
jacobtaylor2002
by jacobtaylor2002 on Nov 16, 2010 11:15 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I object, speculation
We don’t know what Sing told him prior to the presser. But he was excited in the locker room after the game. Everyone has been calling Troy lucky, even though I disagree (and hate people using luck as point support), but as LA49er said, if Troy didn’t perform, Sing would be blamed. Fans are being irrational with Sing. They are blaming him with everything. Alex is this teams biggest mistake. But until Troy was signed (and learned the playbook) he WAS the best option. Period. That isn’t the case now, and the correction was made. There are many intelligent, football savvy posters here who still think Alex is the safest choice. I think he is okay as a backup, but would feel most comfortable with him at 3rd. This team needs time to mature.
Our new QB has 4 NFL starts, our O-Line has two rookies (who have been getting stomped on all season), our secondary is lacking (a known issue). We were 0-5, yet this team still thinks they can win. Sing has to take 100% of the credit for that. And through week 7, even the players wanted Alex in there cause they didn’t expect much from the alternatives.
A Sing Hater's Shelter
Is a losing week. You could blame Sing for causing cancer during a losing week, and you’d probably find at least a couple of people willing to back you up.
On a winning week, the obvious Sing Hater loses friends faster than MySpace. The smart ones just bite their tongue and bide their time, hoping the team falls flat on its face the next game so they can come back out and exult.
But the rabid ones, they’re the ones finding reasons why the guy should be fired even when he’s doing exactly what he is being paid to do. “But, did you see his body language? He clearly wishes Troy Smith was hurt so he could put Alex back in!”
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
It's funny, but your absolutely right
Look at all the low votes, yet few have rebutted any of the justification I made above. Most arguments to get rid of him are emotionally based. Or based on some perception they he controls the players on the field and every play calling decision that doesn’t work (of course, not the ones that do).
Surreal that ...
… we’re talking about pseudo-good luck when the 49ers had three thouchdowns called back.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
+1
I thought of that too.
Reminds me of the Dylan Song, “Pledgin’ My Time to You:”
Well, they sent for an ambulance
And one was sent.
Somebody got lucky
But it was an accident.
Except, I don’t think Troy is an accident. I think he’s our guy. Under a great offensive-minded head coach the Niners could become a very very interesting team next year, if we sign Troy Smith.
I Have A Question
Fooch, or anyone who knows, I asked this once before but I didn’t see a comment:
If we had to franchise tag Troy Smith next year, could we? And what would that cost us? (Let’s assume the CBA and all of its implications are not involved in this discussion for now. I just can’t go there.)
there have been multiple responses to that comment
I don’t know which thread it was in. There’s no CBA yet so no word on whether franchise tag is available. This past year the exclusive tag was $16 million, the other was $14 million and change.
by David Fucillo on Nov 16, 2010 9:57 AM PST up reply actions
Uhh
I don’t know if I would franchise tag a 3rd string fill-in after just 2 games. If Troy Smith turns out decent or better we can sign him for a relatively decent price, but nowhere near franchise money. Don’t think he deserves upper half of QBs money.
The Art of War
by Pham49 on Nov 16, 2010 10:02 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Franchise Tag...
Would NOT be a good idea!! He is not deserving of top 5 QB pay at all yet. He keeps up his pace for the rest of the season, I definitely think he is deserving of a nice new contract, but no where near Franchise Tag cost.
1 - Same as the last 18 months
There’s much in the press about the Vikings’ player who was quoted saying they win in spite of Childress. The 49ers are the physical manifestation of winning in spite of your coaching staff.
They’re horrifically undisciplined on defense, which is the #1 reason Singletary is the coach in the first place. They’ve been unable to put together solid or even marginally consistent offensive line play, which was the #2 reason he is the head coach, and Troy Smith has won the last two games making plays that are not Singletary type plays.
I’m just glad that I can root for them to win now without worrying about him keeping his job, he’s out unless they win in the playoffs, and look like a real team doing it.
by whistlingmountain on Nov 16, 2010 8:59 AM PST reply actions
More like
Undisciplined players… But they do have to work on that and I think that will happen when we get in FAs, and draft picks.
Vernon Davis changed his attitude and is now a team leader.
Crabtree is considered a diva but he has not cause any controversies
The only problem I have is that we stayed with Alex Smith too long.
>< just win the d**n game or else! Or else what? Exactly!
one undisciplined player is the player's fault
a team of undisciplined players is the coaching staff.
by whistlingmountain on Nov 16, 2010 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
7
Sing may have struggled earlier on in the season, but there were a couple of games earlier on that we should have won and it had nothing to do with how Sing coached. You may hate him because he stuck with Alex, but we had no other choice but to. Troy was too new, Carr sucks, and Nate…stop talking about Nate. Now we have some momentum coming down the home stretch…If anything, the team respects coach and they will play hard for him. He has turned Davis into a leader and now he has a QB that can stretch the field. His smash mouth mentality will pay off in the end when teams are worn down…and Frank Gore will run all over people. He may not be the best coach, but he is the best for what is ahead for us, a chance to get back to the playoffs. He has the fire to get the team pumped up and I believe he will let the players play and let his coaches coach.
8
1. He made the decision to start Troy Smith and it is giving the best the results (winning)
2. He has not lost the respect of the team (they are playing as hard as ever) If you don’t think that has anything to do with see Wade Philips
3. Everybody had issues with the first 8 games and they are being fixed as we go deeper into the season.
4. I really believed that we would have made the playoffs, but I know that if Alex Smith did not play up to standards we would fail. That failure put us in a deep hole. But he really believe in this team and I respect a coach that feels the way I do about this team.
5. I see a different with new type of QB leadership. I see the team excited and confident that I did not see with Alex Smith. This could be the making of something special.
6. We can have one of the most explosive offenses in the league next year. We have brilliant OC and a possible franchise QB in Troy Smith. With a few more tweeks here and there and I think we could dominate the NFC West. A new head coach means a new staff. Regardless of the fact, after what Alex Smith did or going to do Nolan and Singletary no coach wants to follow that situation.
7. The draft picks are contributing. We all agreed that the OL was our biggest issue and they got addressed. Thanks to Troy, we can focus on DE, CB with the first and second pick. We can still draft a QB, but the pressure to be the franchise QB will be lessened.
8. The season is not over and I know that two things happen in the NFL
(a) a team that has a winning record fails to make the playoffs
(b) a team that has a losing record makes the playoffs
I hope that we can be the (b) choice.
>< just win the d**n game or else! Or else what? Exactly!
we will have a winning record so it doesnt matter
The only loss I see us having is maybe Green Bay…we can beat the charges…St Louis did.
by FrznCarboNiner on Nov 16, 2010 9:13 AM PST up reply actions
I am with you
Let’s make history. They say the odds are against us, but we got nothing to lose.
>< just win the d**n game or else! Or else what? Exactly!
We need a rally thong
What’s Aubrey Huff up to these days?
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
A win doesn't exonerate Singletary
14 penalties, including an illegal formation on the first play after halftime (what were they talking about?) 3 TDs and an interception called back because of penalties. A 20 yard per completion average, but no ability to convert a single 3rd down.
It was a fun game to watch, and a much needed win. But the team has a certain smell that comes from the top…
I agree
There is no excuse for all the penalties. I think having a new qb caused them to have a little more penalties than normal. Troy stays longer in the pocket than Alex did…some of the false starts could be attributed to getting excited that the team was about to score…and we will be doing a lot of that here soon.
by FrznCarboNiner on Nov 16, 2010 9:23 AM PST up reply actions
6
we’ve won our last two games…the last against an equally rested St. Louis, which probably skewed the o-line’s performance more or less. I give Sing credit for starting Troy over Alex too. Troy was given command of the helm and the results were wins. And if we compare their QB numbers this year…
Troy: 116.6 (QB rating), 61.7% passes completed, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 276.0 yards/G, 0 Fumbles Lost
Alex: 75.0 (QB rating), 59.1% passes completed, 9 TDs, 9 INTs, 222 yards/G, 1 Fumble Lost
Now granted, Alex was playing against some tougher competition, but Troy has won both of his games versus Alex and his 1 against Oakland. Also, it’s been the same o-line. I say start the hot hand and see where that leads us. IF we win out, we probably clinch the division and if not…maybe Mike Johnson deserves a promotion?
3
Alot of great points have been made above so I will not restate. One thing I will say is that Im not sure if this team has turned around yet. None of their wins have been dominate. We lost some games because of bad luck but we also won a couple of games because of good luck.
The Art of War
by Pham49 on Nov 16, 2010 10:09 AM PST via mobile reply actions
3
Singletary is the same coach he was at the beginning of the season.
He switched from Raye to MJ and from Carr to Smith as desperation tactical measures. These were NOT strategic moves. They would have been strategic moves had they happened in off season.
Sing’s a beaten man, and he knows it. His demeanor on the sidelines and in the pressers show it. He watches helplessly (while ranting at the refs) as penalties pile up, and mistakes are made from undisciplined playing, game after game. While clock management has improved, needless time outs are still being called because personnel don’t appear to be ready for the designed plays,
I don’t want to go into details of the lousy personnel decisions that were made at the start of the season regarding QB, O line, special teams, etc but those decisions were directly responsible for the Niners, who were favored to win the division, ending up at the bottom of the worst division of the NFL for the entire first half of the season.
Sing must now watch his theory of winning with smashmouth football (dominant defense, dominant yet predictable running game for ball control where QB is just another player, and winning by a few points) be falsified.
First, it has been conclusively shown that he cannot use his approach to win with a talented team in the weakest division. Second, they have ditched his approach with an improvising QB who can be a gunslinger if needed. They are winning by being unpredictable, i.e., by outsmarting the defense, something that SIng had publicly stated in January 09 that he did not want to do. His vision of a winning approach is conclusively being proved wrong.
He gets a 3 and not a 2 because he has kept the locker room together and has turned VD’s career around (a score of 1 can only be for the likes of Rich Kotite, IMO)
+1
I absolutely agree with your statement 100%. That is a great analysis of what happen. Alot of fans here on niners nation gave Singletary a high rating than he deserves because of his decision to let Jimmy Raye go and promote Troy Smith. What truly happened is that he was desperate and it was the only and obvious choice. No stregetic moves but only desperate ones.
The Art of War
by Pham49 on Nov 16, 2010 11:15 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
They only seem desperate
Because we don’t have the following:
A. A media friendly coach
B. An investigative media corps
The coach isn’t gonna give you anything you couldn’t already find out yourself, and the reporters aren’t gonna go digging to find out. In New York, we would have known the coaching staff had no faith in Carr and that Dashon was hurt.
We still don’t know why Jimmy Raye was fired, and I’d be surprised if we found out by the offseason, if ever. We assume it was a desperation move, but for all we know, Jimmy told Sing he was done being the scapegoat for Alex. For all we know, Jimmy told Sing it was Alex or him, and Alex won out.
I mean, who knows, really? The last time we got anything juicy and remotely insightful about the team, Sing called the source a “rat” and stopped short of threatening the guy’s life.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
I probably should have gotten to the point, LOL
The point being, maybe Sing had a great strategic reason for getting rid of Jimmy when he did, or maybe he had to due to something completely out of his control, but we’ll never know for sure.
That means anybody who doesn’t like the guy can fill in the blanks with a scared tyrant desperately trying to hold on to the last shreds of control, while those sympathetic to the coach will fill the blanks in with a strong visionary navigating the team around peril after peril.
Either way, we’ll never know for sure, so realize that 90% of people’s opinions of the coach at this point, positive or negative, are simply projections we’ve created to try to get our own glimpse behind the curtain.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
by LA49er on Nov 16, 2010 3:55 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
There is so much speculation flying around, and the haters cling to the negative, the supporters to the positive. But, I think it is difficult to make a solid case against Sing based on the teams attitude. Again, the beginning of the season was soul crushing, yet they all believe they can still make the playoffs.
Fight the Power Troy!
2
First off, somebody has got to make it clear to Mr. Singletary that TIME OUTS ARE NOT FRIVOLOUS!
Then this: “I think it will be an ongoing thing. Every quarterback around the league is going to do something that the coach doesn’t like, and I think for me, it’s just a matter of continuing to work with the coordinator, and he and I – [offensive coordinator] Mike Johnson and myself – understand the things that Troy has to correct going forward. And they’re just little, correctable things, and we’ll do that.”
Correct like how? “When you get flushed throw it out of bounds” or “Go through your progressions like an automoton so everyone knows where you’re throwing it” or “When in doubt, throw it short where there are a ton of people flying around” or “Don’t throw it unless you see our guy has a clear three yard separation”. Scaredy cat nonsense. Montana had 139 career interceptions, Steve Young had 107. It’s going to happen. You can’t play scared and you can’t play not to lose. That’s what I’ve seen from this coaching staff. Have we blown any team out since Mr. Singletary has been there? There is no second gear with Singletary. Let’s keep it in granny gear and grind it over this hill here.
Coaches ruined Alex Smith. They took the football player, the sandlot guy, out of him and turned him into a mediocre “can’t make a mistake” guy. I can’t lay that on this staff, he was ruined before they came along, but they certainly reinforced it. Please, for the love of all things good and holy, don’t correct Troy Smith that way. If they want to tell him to make sure he’s got the ball secure when the pocket is collapsing and when he takes off running, fine, otherwise let the kid play.
Finally (and I’ll shut up now) let Manusky dial it up at the end of the game. I hate losing being too timid. I’d much rather lose being too aggressive. Scaredy cat football irks me.
Putting words in his mouth
"When you get flushed throw it out of bounds" or "Go through your progressions like an automoton so everyone knows where you’re throwing it" or "When in doubt, throw it short where there are a ton of people flying around" or "Don’t throw it unless you see our guy has a clear three yard separation"
Putting them in quotes means these are quotes from Sing. He has ever said this. Again, more speculation on what you think Sing wants. You are crucifying him for YOUR thoughts. Just because Alex turned into that guy, doesn’t mean Troy will. And I seriously doubt Sing would want him to be.
Yes, but No
You are correct in every way. The quotes imply statements and they are not actual statements (I thought I had taken them far enough into the realm of absurdity that they could not be perceived that way, but yes, you are correct sir). I could have found a different grammatical device (semicolons?) to make my point. Also, you are correct that I am projecting MY thoughts into our esteemed coach’s head. Clearly and truly, that’s what I have done (again, I thought, to the point of absurdity). You, I’m truly certain, are correct that Mr. Coach would not want Troy to turn into that guy.
So let me ask this of you. In Mr. Coach’s actual words (“it’s just a matter of continuing to work with the coordinator, and he and I – [offensive coordinator] Mike Johnson and myself – understand the things that Troy has to correct going forward. And they’re just little, correctable things”) what exactly do YOU think he wants to correct? Is it his footwork? His delivery? His huddle presence? His cadence in the snap count?
Isn’t it more likely that he wants to correct his decision making? Isn’t it more likely that he wants to coach him to avoid a mistake? Seriously, all polite snarkiness aside, do you interpret our Coach’s words any differently than I do? That’s my point entire. And that is precisely what killed Alex. Well meaning people trying to shave the odds of mistakes, throwing up an ever shrinking box of “don’t, don’t don’t” until a guy has no choice but to throw it out of bounds and look for the checkdown and wait for the guy to be High School open. Of course Singletary doesn’t want Troy to become that; he acknowledged that it’s a “fine line” in a different quote I read somewhere. But everything I see from Singletary tells me he’s a “play not to lose” guy rather than a “play to win” guy (sorry about the quotes, they’re not meant to be Singletary statements). Did Ginn choose to fair catch every punt, or was he told to? Does our defense play “no deep ball” in the last two minutes out of pure funkiness, or are they told to? Have we run a single gadget play this year? The evidence is everywhere. Fear. Fear. Fear. And that’s no way to play or coach football. And when you play that way, and coach that way, it backfires (eg. weeks 1-5).
So whatever Singletary is selling to Troy, I’m begging him not to buy it. And Troy WILL have his meltdown. He’ll have a 4 int game and stink it up. Count on it. But in the interim, he’ll get defenses to be confused. He’ll get the extra guy out of the box for Frank to roll.
Ah, I’m done. I don’t know how to be more clear. I get your point, and I’m actually not a hater of our Coach. I just wish his actual moxy matched his verbal moxy.
They were absurd, which was kindof my point too
Troy is the spark he was looking for in this Offense. He has awakened this talented O. I love what Troy has done, but name me one coach in the history of the NFL that wouldn’t want it to be more… intentional. No coach wants the plays to break down and for things to turn into a scramble drill (the players said that is what it was like). As a fan, I loved it, it was exciting, and big plays came as a result. But a coach wants to PLAN those big plays. Plan that execution. You can’t draw up a 15 second route and expect the QB to scramble around waiting for the play to unfold. So yes, he will try to get Troy to go through progressions, get rid of the ball quicker. That’s his job. To plan for successful plays. When they break down, he isn’t going to crucify Troy for improving to make things happen, but any coach will want that to be the exception, not the rule.
Having said that, I love it. I would like to say, screw it, schoolyard rules and play. But that isn’t a long term winning formula. And how tired would the Offense be if each play they are scrambling around for 10-15 seconds trying to get open, instead of their usual 5 second routes.
What makes you think Sing has a clue about coaching a QB?
Nothing on his resume. Nothing in his public pronouncements. Nothing in Alex Smith’s play. Nothing, nothing, nothing.
I don't think he does either...
That is why teams have QB coaches. But Sing, MJ, Manusky (and every other coach in the sports) comes up with a game plan, and wants their team to execute it. Afterall, they get paid to create the plan. If the players make things up as they go, why have a coach at all?
Good Points and Well Stated
I think we’re coming to some odd form of agreement here (not sure if we were in disagreement). You’re right, any coach wants it to be executed as they drew it up and you’re also right that pure sandlot is not a long term winning formula. I would be in favor of pushing the QB more into the gameplan if I had any confidence that the way they drew it up had a real method to it, but I would submit that the 3rd downs on Sunday point pretty openly to the notion that the plays, as drawn up, don’t seem to be winners. I can’t recall a single game since the middle of last season where I felt like we outcoached the other team, but I can think of a few where I definitely felt the other way. I’m beginning to like the OC, a lot, but I still haven’t seen an obvious “aha” where he found something obvious and exploited it. In Seattle, clearly the other coaching staff saw our corners jumping the short routes and went to double moves. Almost every team we’ve faced has seen our safeties crashing the box on runs so they’ve done the flea flicker. Virtually every other team has seen our LB’s either blitzing or dropping into coverage so they run the screen. I don’t see that method with the Niners. And until I do, I’m thinking sandlot is our best chance, and therefore I don’t want to see the sandlot coached out of Troy. I’ll continue to believe that until the methodical approach is consistently working, like back in the day.
A torturous Three ...!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
Horrible
Singletary has been nothing but an embarrassment to the team and the franchise. From pulling his pants down, to having Dennis O’Donnell fired(nice christian move loser hypocrite), to horrendous game and clock management.
The real question is how did this jerk ever get this job. He is the most UNQUALIFIED head coach in the NFL.
Wade Phillips
Is that you? How’s early retirement treating you?
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
Dennis O'Donnel
Bay area sports caster for KPIX, owned and operated by CBS.
Personally, I never was a fan of his… He always got players names wrong and never truly called a good game… (In my opinion).
Still, shouldn’t have gotten fired for his interview with Coach. Bad form CBS.
He wasn't fired
He just interviewed Delanie walker the other day.
Unless that was CYBORG DENNIS O’DONNELL AND THE MACHINES HAVE STARTED TO TAKE OVER
But it’s probably just regular old human Dennis O’Donnell.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
3 from me as well
I feel that Coach Sing has nothing to do with the two wins. I am very torn on the Niners right now. I am 100% sold that this team will never realize its potential (QB issues set aside) with Coach Sing at the helm. I am so sick of his leadership talks and his 1960’s football ways.
Coach Sing reminds me of a picture some of my former co-workers had. We worked in a cubicle enviornment (Office Space comes to mind) and some people had a picture on their wall that was a bullseye with a caption “When in doubt hit head here”. I feel like Coach Sing would constantly slam his head into the wall until someone told him otherwise.
I want the team to rally and make a run at the division, but I also want Coach Sing to get fired….. So I am rooting for wins and Jed York to realize that Sing needs to go. Then we can go get Gruden for 2011-2012 and beyond.
by What you talking bout Willis on Nov 16, 2010 11:21 AM PST reply actions
No contradiction here
As a fan, I want the Niners to win every remaining game and get to the SuperBowl.
Then I want Sing fired.
I have nothing personal against Singletary, the man, although I think he needs to control his temper, and be more open-minded. I just think he’s not HC material, and I don’t buy his vision for winning, even if he wins the Super Bowl. It’s really ugly football and a recipe for disaster with a young team, or even a talented veteran team that has not played together for a long while.
I supported him through last season because I thought he was learning and evolving — I was obviously wrong.
by Mood_Indigo on Nov 16, 2010 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
Speaking of firing Sing
Lowell Cohn is floating a rumor about interest in Holmgren by Niners’ brass.
http://cohn.blogs.pressdemocrat.com/12518/holmgren-to-49ers/
by Mood_Indigo on Nov 16, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
wow
Thanks for the link but defintely keep in mind that it’s something Cohn heard from somebody who claims they heard it from two other people. Until we know the people who called the SI guy it’s hard to give it much credence at this point.
by David Fucillo on Nov 16, 2010 1:39 PM PST up reply actions
5
Seems to be doing a very average job.
OT, On the VD TD that was called back it was actually Joe Staley who was called for holding not Davis. The hold by Staley is pretty weak though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoHMjTuJV04
I said I'd give him a 5 if the 49ers beat the Bucs
He’s still stuck at 4
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
??
Why is it when the team is doing horrible, it’s Sings fault…But when they win, it has nothing to do with Sing and everything to do with someone else? It was not in pure desperation that he made the moves on Raye and Troy Smith. Give him credit for the moves he did. He doesn’t have to admit anything to us in front of the media. All I care about is winning. I don’t care if he isn’t the best in PR. As long as the team is playing hard for him and themselves that is all that matters…and I think they are playing hard for him…so I think he is doing a good job and will only get better.
by FrznCarboNiner on Nov 16, 2010 11:53 AM PST reply actions
It really wasn't a good coaching performance
The offense went dead again in the 2nd and 3rd quarter … surprise surprise came back to life when they had to scrap everything and play passing desperation mode.
The same penalties came up throughout the game, defensive offsides and holding.
Again the defense the broke late in the game. The Rams had three plays to win the game at the end of regulation, not just tie to score! They got into FG range within 70 seconds and had an extra 35 seconds to try to score a TD.
Troy Smith won the game despite the coaching. It helped the Rams made the awful decision to go back to running the ball in OT cause they had passed the ball at will.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
Didnt we win the game?
The rams have a good defense and we basically lost over 100 yards in offense and a couple of touchdowns due to penalties and bad officiating. We were called on a couple of important plays where we were called on holding, which was bogus , and a roughing the passer….Sure the coaches need to help out with getting some of the mistakes cleared up…but dam , players need to play. Can we put some of the blame on the players for once.
by FrznCarboNiner on Nov 16, 2010 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
3
My only problem with Troy Smith is that he could end up saving the job of the worst coach in the NFL.
The worst coach in the NFL?
I don’t live in SF anymore…I’m about 3000 miles away in Orlando…so when I watch the games I do get to hear the game because other games take priority. Are they yelling Fire Sing?….cuz I know in Minnesota, their doing that to Chilly….You think Sing is the worst coach..but cmon, worst coach in the nfl? So if they get to the playoffs, is he still the worst coach?
by FrznCarboNiner on Nov 16, 2010 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
Playoffs
This team is 3-6 in one of the worst divisions in the history of the NFL. If the team makes the playoffs, it will be at 7-9. I for one don’t think he is the worst coach, just the most unqualified to get the job in the first place.
He has never been a head coach at any level before. He has never been a coordinator at any level before. What qualified him to be a head coach in the NFL?
For that, look no further than #11
Read my comments above. He has averaged 11 points per game. No defense in the NFL would make that a winning team. But even through Week 6, the players wanted Alex on the field. Carr sucks and Troy was unknown and wasn’t familiar with the playbook yet. Now, they all are man crushing on him, cause he is way better (for our system) than Alex. That is undeniable, 2 games or not. His skillset fits this team better, period.
Chilly is Sing's Fault
How dare you try to deflect blame from America’s Most Wanted Known Pedophile Michael “Lucifer” Singletary.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
I'm kidding, obvs
Or am I? Do you know where your kids are? TUNE IN AT ELEVEN TO FIND OUT
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
Troy Smith is not that good
Okay really, be honest with yourselves: if you didn’t hate Alex Smith so much you wouldn’t be very impressed with Troy. He holds on for the ball too long, his running around causes holds from his offensive line, he throws balls downfield that by all rights should be intercepted and he relies on his surprisingly good receivers to grab impossible catches. Alex is boring, but Troy is exciting for mostly wrong reasons and I have to say that Alex could have won all the games Troy did, maybe better than he did. That being said, damn he’s fun to watch. I think we’re done with him in SF, but he could do well in Carolina or Arizona or something. As for Singletary, no matter if we win the season out or not, if he isn’t gone by the start of next season you all should be ready for another hyped up season that kicks you in the gut.
wow
Maybe you need to go back and watch Alex play. Again, through week 6, the team scored 15.5 pts per game, the offense 11.3. What makes you think Alex could have scored 23 and 24 points in those two games? Especially with the pressure by long last game. Alex had an 8 passer rating when pressured in those first games.
oops, funny math
Subtracted too much from defense and ST scores. It should only be 14, if I am correct. So, Smith has averaged 13.2, not 11.3. So he is still slightly better than Carolina’s Moore, but still horrible.
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