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Around SBN: Bob Sapp Denies Throwing Fights

Ask Bucs Nation

This Sunday, the Bucs travel to San Francisco to play the 49ers. With you guys looking to mount a comeback and us trying to come closer to a playoff spot this game could be very important for both our teams. So hey, that means it's time for an Ask the Enemy post. Ask away guys! It'd be great if someone could post an equivalent post over at Bucs Nation, too. 

By the way, one quesiton for you guys: I was actually at the London Broncos-49ers game, and Troy Smith didn't impress me at all in that, as he looked uncomfortable and missed a lot of wide-open receivers. Still he got you guys a win and supposedly (I haven't seen it) had a much better game this week. How do you guys feel about him, and do you think he can be a long-term solution at quarterback?

And lastly, could you Rec this post so it stays at the top and people continue to see this throughout the week? Thanks. 

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.

Comment 274 comments  |  13 recs  | 

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Secondary

Break yours down.

"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"

by bignerd on Nov 16, 2010 7:49 PM PST reply actions  

Aqib Talib is a great cover corner

But he’ll give up about one big pass per game. Ronde Barber is still good, but he’s a gambler and doesn’t have the speed to recover if he guesses wrong. He spends a lot of time in the slot, though, and he’s pretty dominant there. Both those guys are great against the run.
EJ Biggers is our third corner, and he’s been really solid in pass coverage this year, but he’s not stellar in run support.

Both our safeties are solid, and Cody Grimm is stellar against the run, but they lack range which doesn’t help the fact that we give up a big pass play or two each game.

by Sander on Nov 17, 2010 5:31 AM PST up reply actions  

I could answer that lol..

anyone until our DBs start playing up to par.. j/k.

Seriously though I would think their biggest receiving weapon is Mike Williams, but the our team is probably aware of him already so the biggest one that would surprise us would probably be Arrelious Benn.. but than again Spurlock is there too lol.. they remind me of the Broncos receivers..

by StevenC on Nov 16, 2010 11:36 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know if anyone could surprise the 49ers at this point

Our receiving weapons are pretty obvious on tape. Mike Williams is our best receiver, and teams seem to be catching on as the Panthers were doubling him all day. That left Kellen WInslow open, and he took advantage. Arrelious Benn is getting better each week as well, and even Michael Spurlock has played well.

I’ll say that if Sammie Stroughter is healthy for this game he’s a guy you could be surprised by as he hasn’t done much this week, but he’s a good slot receiver.

by Sander on Nov 17, 2010 5:33 AM PST up reply actions  

don't worry

we don’t double…we don’t even play man most of the game. We’ll sit back in deep zone and give you everything underneath. Also, run some post routes and you’re torch our safeties if you get good protection in the pocket.

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 17, 2010 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Either Arrelious Benn or Michael Spurlock, although I'd say more likely the former.

Up until last week, Spur came up with a big catch at a pivotal point in the game. However, Arrelious (aka “Rejus”) has been emerging at the flanker position the past few wweeks and is giving the Buccaneers the makings of a true tandem threat on the outside with the needs-no-introduction Mike Williams. Sure, they’re young, and there’s always a chance one of them hits the wall, but Williams and Benn appear to be budding stars.

In short, don’t sleep on Rejus on Sunday.

Cannons... fire them.

Bucs Nation - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

by Craig T on Nov 17, 2010 5:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Breakdown your o-line. Do you think your guys’ left tackle can handle Justin Smith?

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work." - Thomas Edison

by mikeinsp on Nov 16, 2010 9:43 PM PST reply actions  

Donald Penn is good to very good in pass protection

He’ll get beat once or twice per game, but handle his man just fine the rest of the game.

The rest of the line isn’t nearly that good, though. James Lee is currently starting at RT and he looked terrible in pass protection against the Falcons, though he looked a lot better against the Panthers. If Trueblood is back and starts then that isn’t much of an improvement, as he’s always been a liability in pass pro. Davin Joseph used to be dominant at RG but he hasn’t looked the same this year, really disappointing. Jeff Faine at center is scrappy and solid, but not great. Ted Larsen at LG is still a real question mark, as a rookie he has been inconsistent and he gets lost at times, but he had a great game against the Panthers especially run blocking.

Still, our offensive line is probably our weakest unit after defensive line.

by Sander on Nov 17, 2010 5:36 AM PST up reply actions  

how many sacks do you think the niners will have sunday?

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Nov 17, 2010 11:02 AM PST up reply actions  

But you realize Justin Smith is practically unstoppable, right?

even double teamed…I mean, that’s a widely known fact around the NFL.

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 17, 2010 11:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Who?

No offense to Justin Smith, but I’ve never heard of him. And while that counts for very little as I don’t follow the NFC west in general nor the Niners specifically, Donald Penn is no chump. Don’t be surprised if Smith isn’t as productive as you’d like.

If you will it, dude, it is no dream.

by Kilgore on Nov 17, 2010 1:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Justin Smith has 5 sacks this year.

Which is a pretty good total for a 3-4 DE. Penn is a solid tackle but I see them being about even overall. Penn will also have to deal with an OLB coming off the edge from time to time.

by Joshuahss on Nov 17, 2010 1:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Even?

My goodness.
Justin Smith was the second best DE in the NFL last year (only Jared Allen was better).

Last I heard, Donald Penn was a lazy fat [site decorum] that cared more about himself than the team.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 18, 2010 5:28 PM PST up reply actions  

So what was that holdout about?

I guess the scale he was weighed on was also broken somehow.

The point still stands:
Justin Smith >>>>> Donald Penn

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 18, 2010 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes he held out

He’s played very well this year anyway, and his teammates love him.

by Sander on Nov 18, 2010 6:00 PM PST up reply actions  

That's wonderful

Justin Smith is still a top 5 DE.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 19, 2010 8:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes, as you've kept repeating

You’ll also note that no one’s disagreeing with that assessment.

by Sander on Nov 19, 2010 9:12 AM PST up reply actions  

So then how can you say they are even?

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work." - Thomas Edison

by mikeinsp on Nov 19, 2010 6:21 PM PST up reply actions  

a person associated with you
Which is a pretty good total for a 3-4 DE. Penn is a solid tackle but I see them being about even overall.

Kellen Moore is awesome

by manraj7 on Nov 19, 2010 7:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes well that person is not me

Not everyone on Bucs Nation has the same opinion on everything.

I haven’t seen enough of Justin Smith to say if Penn could handle him one-on-one. Penn’s a solid pass blocker but not a dominant one.

by Sander on Nov 19, 2010 7:11 PM PST up reply actions  

what are you talking about

Everyone has the same opinion. You guys aren’t drones?

Kellen Moore is awesome

by manraj7 on Nov 19, 2010 7:22 PM PST up reply actions  

you will know his name after the game.

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Nov 17, 2010 2:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Pro Bowler last year

and will be so again this year. he’s respected by his peers far more than by the fans (read: DE on a 3-4), as he’s always described as having a “high motor”.

watch the double teams in the trenches. i promise you will see doubles going justin’s way all game long. he and aubrayo franklin consistently handle 3 or 4 guys between them.

boognish out

by t p on Nov 17, 2010 2:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Justin Smith is very good yes

But he’s still ‘just’ a 3-4 DE. He won’t just be rushing against Penn, he’ll be rushing 1-on-1 against Ted Larsen a lot too I assume. Who is a liability in pass protection, so Smith could have a big game.

by Sander on Nov 17, 2010 4:03 PM PST up reply actions  

not just a 3-4 DE

he is a 4-man DT in Nickel too. Trust me…he’s caused problems for everyone we’ve played. Generally averages 3 QB hits, 5 pressures per game. Started 148 consecutive games.

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 18, 2010 8:07 AM PST up reply actions  

You guys are really underrating him.

And he will be going against Penn (and probably handling Ted Larsen at the same time)

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 18, 2010 5:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Penn has been pretty good in pass protection.

Last year, he handled faced some pretty solid outside rushers in Clay Matthews, Peppers, Demarcus Ware, etc. Peppers totaled 3 sacks in 2 matchups, but Penn shut down Ware and most others he faced. It’ll be a fun chess match on Sunday.

Cannons... fire them.

Bucs Nation - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

by Craig T on Nov 17, 2010 6:18 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah I'm not saying Smith will have 3 sacks

but he’ll cause all sorts of issues the whole game…that’s the case every week.

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 18, 2010 8:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Ya cause pretty good on a mediocre team

usually wins against a future hall of famer and current pro bowler? haha you guys are funny.

Californa is world PVP at it's finest.

by Sammallory on Nov 18, 2010 6:44 PM PST up reply actions  

RE: Your Troy Smith comments.

He hadn’t started a game in 2 years. Only had 3 days of practice. And barely knew the playbook.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work." - Thomas Edison

by mikeinsp on Nov 16, 2010 9:44 PM PST reply actions  

not to mention he played really well

your eyes deceive you if you saw otherwise. He missed some passes but he threw them where they couldn’t be picked off (except the Hail Mary, yes let’s rail on him for that a few more times). When it mattered he found a way.

The St. Louis game he played much better. His biggest problem there was holding onto the ball a few times. Still, he hit open receivers for TONS of big plays and most of them were not risky throws. He also had 3 TD’s called back on holds and delay of game. I’ll break him down later in the week but he really had a solid performance.

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 17, 2010 11:52 AM PST up reply actions  

See I wouldn't say he played really well in London

I know play by play was broken down, but nothing about that day said he looked really good.

by hudd07 on Nov 17, 2010 3:58 PM PST up reply actions  

he did a good job with what he had

he made most of the plays that were there to make and didn’t make any mistakes. It wasn’t an unforgettable elite performance but he was solid.

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 18, 2010 8:11 AM PST up reply actions  

I didn't see the St Louis game

But he did not play well against the Broncos. Yeah, some misses were unpickable passes (which is still not good, why even throw it there if you’re not going to get a completion?), but he missed so many wide-open guys.

by Sander on Nov 17, 2010 4:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Watch the St. Louis game..

Than you’ll see why he through passes that were unpickable while likely being uncatchable..

nothing like getting a DPI called to move your team all the way down the field while it looks like your about to be sacked for a 3 yard loss.. woohoo lol

by StevenC on Nov 18, 2010 4:08 AM PST up reply actions  

um, not really

I’m not sure if you’ve gone back and re-watched the game over again…I’ve learned the real-time eyes can deceive you. I’ve watched the offensive plays from the Denver game in triplicate and Troy played pretty well considering they were protecting him from failure and he had a limited playbook.

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 18, 2010 8:09 AM PST up reply actions  

Having a limited playbook and 'protecting him from failure' is an indictment of Troy too

I haven’t re-watched the full game but I’ve re-watched part of it. I saw some wide-open misses that simply shouldn’t happen.

That’s not to say that that hasn’t improved or anything, just noting what I saw against the Broncos.

Plus, there was that ugly long pass that was miraculously a reception instead of an interception due to completely incompetent DB play.

by Sander on Nov 18, 2010 8:14 AM PST up reply actions  

not an indictment of Troy

an idictment of a guy who just arrived 2 months ago and wasn’t getting a single snap in practices since then as the 3rd QB. Would you expect him to know the nuances of things at that point?

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 18, 2010 8:17 AM PST up reply actions  

No

And that’s the point: that he’s limited in what he can do means he’s limiting the team. The reason for that doesn’t matter.

by Sander on Nov 18, 2010 8:54 AM PST up reply actions  

I believe he had 7 20+ yard plays against the Rams

I don’t think he limits the offense anymore

Kellen Moore is awesome

by manraj7 on Nov 18, 2010 8:56 AM PST up reply actions  

pwnd

this

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 18, 2010 10:39 AM PST up reply actions  

As I said, I never saw the Rams game

I was talking about the Broncos game.

So, y’know, not pwned.

by Sander on Nov 18, 2010 10:42 AM PST up reply actions  

manraj is on fire

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 18, 2010 5:32 PM PST up reply actions  

oh [site decorum] really

tuck duck and roll

Kellen Moore is awesome

by manraj7 on Nov 18, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions  

It’s not working!

Quick!
Dive into the pool!

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 18, 2010 5:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Did you put it out?

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 19, 2010 8:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Excellent

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 21, 2010 1:40 AM PST up reply actions  

you said
he did not play well against the Broncos. …he missed so many wide-open guys.

he didn’t do much wrong, he just wasn’t asked to do much, which is what I said above, then you countered that it was an indictment of Troy…it’s an indictment of a team picking up a player, any player, 60 days prior to his first start for that new team, and not giving him any reps until days before said first start.

Secondly, he didn’t miss “So many wide-open guys”. He had a few passes miss in the first half but for the most part he was accurate.

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 18, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions  

As I said, I was talking about how Troy played in the Broncos game

And regardless of the reason, when someone is limiting his team’s play he’s limiting the team.

Again: I don’t know if that was the case in the Rams game and I doubt it, I’m just talking about what I saw in the Broncos game.

by Sander on Nov 18, 2010 1:15 PM PST up reply actions  

And regardless of the reason, when someone is limiting his team’s play he’s limiting the team.

But that’s neither an indictment of how he player nor his capabilities as a player. It’s simply a fact of a circumstances of any team starting an emergency quarterback who is new to the system.

In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.

by howtheyscored on Nov 18, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Ugh: how he playeD.

In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.

by howtheyscored on Nov 18, 2010 5:34 PM PST up reply actions  

haha
HTS with a typo

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 18, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions  

missed throws that coulda been on him

2Q 9:48 – 3rd and 6 SF 38yd line: Smith wanted the quick hit to Delanie Walker over the left side, a mini-3-step drop pass, but he realized it was covered and pulled back, but was slightly late and high/outside on the pass attempt to Crabtree. Being high and outside was the best throw though since Crabtree was covered.

2Q 4:09 – 3rd and 4 SF 44yd line: Morgan had inside position on the slant but an inside defender widened and got in the picture, causing Smith to throw high and away. He waited a bit on this pass and by the time he threw it I’m guessing the inside defender influenced his throw outside. Nice avoidance of a pick at the last minute, at least.

 3Q 4:29 – 3rd and 6 DEN 24yd line: Again, it almost seemed as though he was trying to miss Walker on this play because there were defenders everywhere except where he threw the pass. He had Dawkins on a free rush who drilled him upon the release, but I don’t think if affected the throw.

4Q 14:06 – 1st and 20 SF 34yd line: It might have looked like he threw it way behind Delanie Walker on this play, but I actually think he was looking for Gore, who hadn’t turned around yet and wasn’t expecting the ball when it was thrown. It’s hard to tell but Gore gave him a look afterwards like “what was that?” I just checked the game-book and they scored it as intended for Gore.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2010/11/2/1787987/49ers-vs-broncos-troy-smith-breakdown

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 18, 2010 12:28 PM PST up reply actions  

When someone's saying "it almost seemed like he's trying to miss"

That’s not a positive, no matter how much he wants it to be a positive.

First play: yeah, Crabtree wasn’t covered there. That’s just a miss that he can put on the numbers and have a completed pass instead. And it’s a 3-yard throw on a play where you need 6-yards. These are the kinds of misses I’m talking about: easy, short throw he just misses.

Second play: That’s some very optimistic interpretation of what just looks like a miss where he didn’t even see the second defender coming in. Nice avoidance of a pick would be not throwing it there, not throwing it there and then missing. Also if he doesn’t stare down his receiver he doesn’t have to worry so much about getting picked.

Third play: Yeah, that ball simply shouldn’t have been thrown. That’s just a terrible decision with no shot at a completion.

Fourth play: Interestingly he omits the incompletion right before that (which was negated because of holding), as Troy Smith throws high and behind Frank Gore on a dumpoff pass. And whether the next pass that wasn’t negated was to Gore or Walker, it was way behind and an ugly miss on a very short and easy completion.

That review is incredibly apologetic and tries to read intent in misses where I don’t think you can ever read that intent.

by Sander on Nov 18, 2010 1:29 PM PST up reply actions  

those were all misses

I said they were on him. I speculated that he might have been throwing them where they couldn’t be picked…I have no idea. We don’t know enough about Troy at this point to know for sure.

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 18, 2010 1:41 PM PST up reply actions  

those FOUR misses were on him

out of how many attempts?

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 18, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Five misses if you count that dumpoff pass that got called back because of holding

And 19 attempts (20 if you count the one called back). That’s very little volume.

Plus, not every completion is a good throw either. Like that one long pass play that was miraculously completed.

I’m not going to go over every throw, but I do know what I saw in that game. And that was a QB who looked uncomfortable and skittish (in part because of the pressure) who had some ugly misses and made a few good plays. Not someone who had a very good game.

Actually, looking at that list of throws again, how are these unambiguously not on the QB. At the very least the QB has to share the blame there:

1Q 12:17 – 2nd & 7 SF 45yd line: Crabtree was between two defenders, but it looked like MAYBE he could have caught the pass if it was thrown slightly shorter and more to the right.

1Q 6:01 – 2nd and 8 SF 39yd line: Incomplete bubble screen to Ginn. Gotta put this one on Joe Staley. He pulled out on the play and didn’t get in the way of Ginn’s DB in time, plus Ginn ran pretty far back, probably because the DB was still close to him. The ball was where Smith thought Ginn would be…can’t call it a bad throw really.

2Q 9:53 – 2nd and 6 SF 38yd line: I can’t be sure, but Norris ran past a free rusher on this play and then ended up being the intended receiver when that same free rusher was inches from contacting Troy Smith. Part of me wonders if Norris should have read that free rusher and chipped him, because Josh Morgan ran a similar flat-route just beyond Norris and could have caught the pass if Norris wasn’t available due to picking up the blitzer.

by Sander on Nov 18, 2010 1:52 PM PST up reply actions  

the first pass was a warning shot

to show them we were not afraid to throw deep…everyone realized that because Crabtree isn’t a burner and he was double covered on an overthrow. It was a shot across the bow.

The second one was a timing play and Ginn didn’t get to his landmark. Qb’s throw to landmarks on comebacks and bubble screens. Ginn didn’t run a good comeback.

Norris sucks…that explains the last one. ;-)

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 18, 2010 2:04 PM PST up reply actions  

you should watch the Rams game too

sorry for this whole string…I just feel like you’re making an indictment on Troy Smith the QB, when it’s been more about other things that have limited him and he’s done a helluva job with what he’s been given.

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 18, 2010 2:07 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not trying to bash Troy Smith the QB

As I’ve said over and over again, he could easily have been much better in the Rams game. But the contention that he looked good in the Broncos game is something I heavily disagree with.

I’m not buying your explanations either. An incompletion is an incompletion. Troy Smith might be throwing to a landmark, but how do you know he didn’t just miss the guy? Was the first play really a called shot or is that just what you’re reading into it?

by Sander on Nov 18, 2010 2:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Read Tre9er's review of both games

Troy Smith has played remarkably well

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 18, 2010 5:32 PM PST up reply actions  

apparently I'm just being apologetic

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 18, 2010 7:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, I don't get some of these people

Keep doing the reviews if you can though.

I can’t rewatch the games so I read your reviews.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 19, 2010 8:54 AM PST up reply actions  

It's pretty bad

But it’s getting better. The run defense had a halfway decent game against the Panthers where they gave up some runs, but had a lot of stuffs as well. Hopefully they can build on that, but they’ve looked atrocious for much of the year too.

by Sander on Nov 17, 2010 5:37 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes.

We have a young and banged up defensive line. Heck, we just had to sign a couple of guys off the Pittsburgh Steelers’ practice squad to add depth. The biggest problem is that we have a middle linebacker who is superior in pass coverage for a LB, but unspectacular in run support, to put it very mildly.

Cannons... fire them.

Bucs Nation - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

by Craig T on Nov 17, 2010 6:20 PM PST up reply actions  

200?

No knock on Gore but…

Wait. I should just keep my mouth shut on this one.

If you will it, dude, it is no dream.

by Kilgore on Nov 17, 2010 9:07 PM PST up reply actions  

100?

Kellen Moore is awesome

by manraj7 on Nov 17, 2010 9:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Manraj

Dont forget it’s going to be raining this weekend. Probably going to be sloppy with 8 men in the box.

by hudd07 on Nov 17, 2010 9:27 PM PST up reply actions  

50?

Kellen Moore is awesome

by manraj7 on Nov 17, 2010 9:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know

I’m not good at predicting that. Just helping others identify the factors…lol

by hudd07 on Nov 17, 2010 10:40 PM PST up reply actions  

10?

Kellen Moore is awesome

by manraj7 on Nov 18, 2010 8:57 AM PST up reply actions  

170

2 rushing TD’s

'Careful Grasshopper ~ that's a god you're mauling.'

by riderless on Nov 18, 2010 5:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Exactly why we should slide in that PA wheel route the Redskins use

2010 in memory of the 1970 Bengals.......
Nate clements: Hey coach, had you put a better gameplan together, i wouldn't have fumbled!!

by rlott#42 on Nov 17, 2010 10:42 PM PST up reply actions  

He’s done it twice in his career already.

LOLSEAHAWKS.

In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.

by howtheyscored on Nov 17, 2010 9:55 PM PST up reply actions  

He's done it several times before

If you guys truly have the worst run defense in the NFL, I don’t see why you would rule it out.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 18, 2010 5:34 PM PST up reply actions  

How is your #1 draft pick panning out

He looked really fly in his suit on NFL total access.

Kellen Moore is awesome

by manraj7 on Nov 16, 2010 10:16 PM PST reply actions  

He's still learning

And he had his best game last Sunday. You can see flashes of dominance in the trenches, but he hasn’t put it all together yet.

by Sander on Nov 17, 2010 5:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Against the offense I'd start blitzing a lot

Freeman’s good, but he still has some problems with beating the blitz, throwing up some wobbly jumpballs off his back foot at times.

Against the defense, I’d just start running and not let up.

by Sander on Nov 17, 2010 5:40 AM PST up reply actions  

well

1 out of 2 aint bad…(we rarely blitz)

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 17, 2010 11:53 AM PST up reply actions  

Which surprises me

It honestly seems like everytime Willis blitzes he gets a sack. Maybe it’s because he never does so offense isn’t expecting it, but I’d like to see more of his blitzes.

As for blitzing in general, it doesn’t ever seem to be terribly beneficial. I don’t know if you ever read TMQ but he always bashes statistically against blizting.

by hudd07 on Nov 17, 2010 4:00 PM PST up reply actions  

I hate TMQ

That dude does not understand statistics. He confuses correlation for causation constantly. And he only picks out the failures to try to make his statement (eg. he’ll never, ever point out a succesful blitz play, even though they work plenty of times).

Indiscriminately blitzing is stupid, of course. But plenty situations where blitzes work well. The Jets defense last year was built on blitzes.

by Sander on Nov 17, 2010 4:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Correlation for Causation

That’s his favorite trick. He relies on it so much that fallacy, I’m not sure that he thinks it a fallacy.

Thankfully, now that the Niners have won a couple of games, he’s quieted down about the “Crabtree Curse.” What he should’ve been talking about was the “Turnover Ratio.”

Fantasy Ontology: the world's most entertaining form of reductionism!
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by grantmp on Nov 19, 2010 6:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Can you cover the TE?

sorry for all of the posts I keep remembering questions after I pressed post.

Kellen Moore is awesome

by manraj7 on Nov 16, 2010 10:18 PM PST reply actions  

That can be a problem

We haven’t really been gashed by a TE this year, but Barrett Ruud(MLB) has looked iffy in coverage this year, and our safeties aren’t great. Could be we try putting Ronde Barber on Vernon Davis, as we put him on Tony Gonzalez against the Falcons which worked reasonably well.

by Sander on Nov 17, 2010 5:44 AM PST up reply actions  

This could be a matchup that works well for the 9ers

We have 2 TE that are really good at catching the ball at this point. If you focus on Vernon, then Walker should get some more room to work. He was a WR in college, so really a WR in a TE’s body.

by Dave R. on Nov 17, 2010 7:18 AM PST up reply actions  

it should be, i am excited to watch this game

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Nov 17, 2010 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

this

we have two TE’s who are faster than a lot of WR’s in the league and both catch the ball well. Our 12 personnel is the featured formation and creates mismatches everywhere. Plus if Troy holds true to form he’ll spread the ball out to whoever is open, so shutting down one or two guys as a game plan wont work.

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 17, 2010 11:54 AM PST up reply actions  

they are good questions

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Nov 17, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Vernon Davis scares the crap out of me on Sunday.

That is all.

Cannons... fire them.

Bucs Nation - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

by Craig T on Nov 17, 2010 6:21 PM PST up reply actions  

of course

Are you kidding me. He is a TE lock week in week out.

by hudd07 on Nov 17, 2010 9:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I guess I will stick with VD.

Kellen Moore is awesome

by manraj7 on Nov 18, 2010 8:58 AM PST up reply actions  

I would.

You could end up being wrong, but you have to go with the most likely option. VD is it to me.

by hudd07 on Nov 18, 2010 1:33 PM PST up reply actions  

He's been underpreforming

everyone except my defense my wr and Vick have been underpreforming

Kellen Moore is awesome

by manraj7 on Nov 18, 2010 1:39 PM PST up reply actions  

You scored 174 pts

I’m sure you can live with a few guys underperforming

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 18, 2010 5:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Dude....

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 18, 2010 5:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I blame Ray Rice and the ravens D

Ray Rice was awesome but noooo the Ravens D refused to get off the field.

Kellen Moore is awesome

by manraj7 on Nov 18, 2010 5:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Be afraid of Delanie Walker too

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 18, 2010 5:35 PM PST up reply actions  

How mature is Freeman playing wise??

does he continue to improve with each game that goes by?

by StevenC on Nov 16, 2010 11:40 PM PST reply actions  

Yes he does

And he’s been stellar this season. He put in a lot of work in the offseason, and it’s paying off now. Honestly, I think given time and if he doesn’t injure himself too much Josh Freeman can develop into an elite QB in this league. As a second-year QB who started just 9 games last season he’s calling out protections, changing plays and has full control of the offense. I’m really impressed with what he’s been able to do this season.

by Sander on Nov 17, 2010 5:48 AM PST up reply actions  

If he doesn’t take any steps backward, he’s very close to being in the elite echelon right now. His numbers as of today are basically vintage McNabb.

Freeman has been very, very impressive.

In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.

by howtheyscored on Nov 17, 2010 10:31 AM PST up reply actions  

McNabb is actually good comparison.

Big arm, mobile, tough to sack. In fact, Freeman has some physical tools that are superior to McNabb’s—particularly his ability to shake off rushers, Roethlisberger-style.

Fantasy Ontology: the world's most entertaining form of reductionism!
twitter me @grantmp1

by grantmp on Nov 19, 2010 6:43 AM PST up reply actions  

I think Culpepper

"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"

by bignerd on Nov 19, 2010 12:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Who?

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 19, 2010 1:10 PM PST up reply actions  

again, who?

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 19, 2010 2:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Freeman compares favorably with McNabb is the point.

Fantasy Ontology: the world's most entertaining form of reductionism!
twitter me @grantmp1

by grantmp on Nov 19, 2010 9:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Order of best young QBs imo in the league atm:

Matthew Stafford
Sam Bradford
Josh Freeman
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Mark Sanchez

with the top 3 having the potential to be elite.

by TeeKay89 on Nov 20, 2010 1:30 PM PST up reply actions  

stafford?

you have to be able to play to be good.

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Nov 20, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions  

so this is based on potential

cause this list seems like a list of QBs going from least likely to make the playoffs to most likely haha.

by afrikabamboodle on Nov 20, 2010 1:47 PM PST up reply actions  

+1

"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"

by bignerd on Nov 20, 2010 2:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd say Flacco has the potential to be elite as well

As he has all the tools and he’s still just a 3rd-year QB.

by Sander on Nov 20, 2010 1:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Flacco is already elite. And if Ryan isn’t, he’s very close.

In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.

by howtheyscored on Nov 21, 2010 1:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I think I did this already

Still no love for Sanchez?

"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"

by bignerd on Nov 20, 2010 2:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Sanchez is surprising the hell out of me this year. I never thought he was going to be very good, and I never would have pegged him as one of the most productive passers in the league.

In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.

by howtheyscored on Nov 21, 2010 1:25 PM PST up reply actions  

You seem to be favoring potential over proven skill. Flacco and Ryan would be much higher on that list otherwise.

In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.

by howtheyscored on Nov 21, 2010 1:23 PM PST up reply actions  

What's with your last-ranked run defense?

Fantasy Ontology: the world's most entertaining form of reductionism!
twitter me @grantmp1

by grantmp on Nov 17, 2010 5:20 AM PST reply actions  

Not last but near the bottom.

Actually getting a little bit better, but…..we just allowed a 100-yard game to Carolina 4th-string RB Mike Goodson. So….take that for what it’s worth.

Cannons... fire them.

Bucs Nation - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

by Craig T on Nov 17, 2010 6:22 PM PST up reply actions  

What has been the secret of Mike Williams' success?

Is he a great route runner?
Is he a speedball that catches deep passes?
Is he a super-physical wideout that outmuscles defenders for the ball?

He’s on pace for a ridiculous rookie year (on pace for 1110 yards and 9 TDs)…what’s the story?

Fantasy Ontology: the world's most entertaining form of reductionism!
twitter me @grantmp1

by grantmp on Nov 17, 2010 7:40 AM PST reply actions  

He's a combination of the 3

He’s a good but not great route runner. He’s fast, but he’s not a blazer. He is really physical. But the best thing he does is use his body to keep the defender away from the ball, and he does a great job of catching the ball at its highest point.

He’s also a good runner after the catch, he consistently makes the first defender miss.

by Sander on Nov 17, 2010 8:24 AM PST up reply actions  

he looks like the real deal

ever since the first couple of preseason games, he’s been making tough catches. i like that he’s given your QB full trust that he’ll come down with the ball. good pick up there…what was he…a 5th rounder?

in SF, we’re starting to actually see that dynamic across the board. last year, you started to see alex trust VD with jump balls- until defenses learned to cover the seam route. now that troy’s throwing the ball, you see crabtree and delanie walker, as well as VD going up to make big catches. they trust eachother, and that really does make a difference.

by t p on Nov 17, 2010 10:59 AM PST up reply actions  

2nd rounder, wasn't he?

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 17, 2010 12:10 PM PST up reply actions  

round 4, FAIL by me

Imagine if there were even half the penalties...plot to keep score close?! ;-)
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 17, 2010 12:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Yep

He dropped because of issues in college, talentwise he was seen as a first-rounder. He missed a year because of academic issues (he cheated on a test), and he ‘quit’ on the team in his last season (he claims the coach basically kicked him off – we’re still not clear on what actually happened).

Thankfully those issues seem to be in the past.

by Sander on Nov 17, 2010 4:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Issues in college eh?

This guy had like a million red flags all around him.

He quit the team because he was going to be suspended again.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 18, 2010 5:37 PM PST up reply actions  

The answer is a resounding....yes.

On all accounts. I’ve written about this multiple times. The guys is a total package receiver.

Cannons... fire them.

Bucs Nation - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

by Craig T on Nov 17, 2010 6:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Concerning your Troy Smith comments

I don’t claim to be all-knowing about this situation, but this is my take on Troy. In both games that he has started, he has looked much better (confidence in the pocket, ability not to panic when the pocket breaks down) than Alex all season. Troy did miss some throws last week, but this week he was much improved. He is a risk taker and isn’t afraid to make a WR out jump a CB for the ball, however this was Alex’s downfall. Alex was so worried about making mistakes that he would either always check down or he would get really flustered if the pocket broke down.

Overall, I think from what I have seen from 49er QB’s this season, I would prefer to have Troy as the QB. He still has a lot of growing to do, but if he continues to play well (I can’t claim to be an expert, I’ve only seen him start two games) I feel like he could compete for a job next year and hopefully the 49ers also draft someone.

by renke81 on Nov 17, 2010 9:00 AM PST reply actions  

How happy are you that the team finally brought in a player to unseat Cadillac Williams?

It’s been my belief that Cadillac Williams has been one of the most franchise damaging draft picks in recent memory – which is a really impressive achievement for a running back! Having Blount in the lineup these days must be an incredible relief for Bucs fans everywhere.

In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.

by howtheyscored on Nov 17, 2010 10:33 AM PST reply actions  

franchise damaging draft picks?

i don’t think many Bucs fans would agree with that. sure he’s had two season ending injuries and he’s not as dominant as he was in his rookie year, but he DID give us 1000 yards in that first year, he’s a beast at pass-protection, he’s a leader both on and off the field, is helping Blount learn the game now, and still shows flashes when our O-line pulls their collective heads out of their collective asses (see the 45-yard touchdown run last week).

To answer your first question though, very relieved that we have what seems to be a back of the future in Blount. As much as we like Caddy, we all know he’s not that…

If you will it, dude, it is no dream.

by Kilgore on Nov 17, 2010 1:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Caddy is also a solid reciever out of the backfield.

I think he would have been an above average NFL back if not for the injuries. But the young players on the Bucs offense look legit.

by Joshuahss on Nov 17, 2010 1:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I wouldn't worry if your run game doesn't pan out ...

… our secondary has the ability to make ordinary Qb’ look like future HOFer’s …!!

I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!

by Edggy on Nov 17, 2010 1:36 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m not saying Williams isn’t a good guy and teammate, but he was drafted to be the offense over there, and year after year he’s been expected to be the offense over there, and it just never happened. The injuries are unfortunate, but that’s something the team should see and think “hmmm…” about. The lack of production when healthy has been a real problem, and that’s something the team should see and think “hmmm…” about. But at every step along the way since he was drafted, they have asserted that his role is to be the offense and that there is no need to really upgrade things, even though he’s been clearly unable to shoulder that responsibility.

Now that the offense is finally moving away from Williams, drafting Freeman, stumbling into Blount, tapering his carries, the offense is actually being productive again. To my mind, he’s basically been your guys’s Alex Smith.

Which isn’t to say he’s not a good teammate or a hard worker or a commendable guy who fans like. Just that the team put way too much stock in him for way too long at the serious expense of the rest of that offense. It seems like no coincidence to me that, outside of his workmanlike rookie season, the years the Buccaneers had losing records and scored the fewest points since he was drafted were the years that Cadillac was healthy and the offense was siphoned through him. The most success you’ve had since 2006 has come when the offense had to move away from Williams and find other ways to score. Just like this year.

In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.

by howtheyscored on Nov 17, 2010 1:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I can see how that makes sense from the outside...

…after all he’s a running back that was a first round pick, but we’ve “moved on” as it were ever since his first injury. Last year Ward was supposed to be the man, before that it was Graham and Dunn (his second stint here). It’s not as if we’ve all been pinning our hopes and dreams on him thinking “this is the year.”

Of all of our recent first round draft picks I’d point to Michael Clayton and Gaines Adams (RIP) as far more disappointing…

If you will it, dude, it is no dream.

by Kilgore on Nov 17, 2010 2:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Actually he wasn't expected to be the offense year-in year-out

Gruden always loved the passing game, so he was never really the foundation of our offense when he was here. Last year he wasn’t expected to be the foundation of the offense, as they acquired Derrick Ward in the offseason who was supposed to be the feature back. Turns out Ward was worse than Caddy post knee-injuries.

He hasn’t been worth his draft status, but I think you’re overestimating the impact of his lack of production.

by Sander on Nov 17, 2010 4:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I know Gruden loves to pass, but I seem to remember him having a Ditka/Ricky Williams sized crush on Cadillac from the moment he drafted him.

Maybe I am overestimating things here. It just seems like that team has been struggling to find any kind of offensive consistency since the day his rookie season ended.

In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.

by howtheyscored on Nov 17, 2010 4:34 PM PST up reply actions  

There were only 2 years where he was expected to produce and didn't

His second year, and his third year. In his second year he never got going, in his third year he tore his patellar tendon after 4 games. The year after that he didn’t come back till late in the year so was never expected to be a big part of the offense, and when he came back he tore his patellar tendon again – so for ‘09 he wasn’t expected to be the basis of the offense either.

And this year it’s clear that the offense is based around Freeman.

by Sander on Nov 17, 2010 5:04 PM PST up reply actions  

I think you may have a point there

Though Michael Clayton has without a doubt been much more damaging, as has the late Gaines Adams (RIP).

Cadillac is a true fan favourite because of the way he plays the game, and how he came back from his two devastating knee injuries. It’s safe to say he’s never been worth his draft status, but he’s still been valuable. The past games where Blount got the majority of the carries he’s been a stellar third-down back, and it’s likely his future value will be at that position.

by Sander on Nov 17, 2010 4:13 PM PST up reply actions  

they were really, REALLY good last year...

and we started the year strong, shutting out Joshua Cribbs and limiting returns well, but they’ve been a bit inconsistent of late. had some issues in our return game last week as well…

If you will it, dude, it is no dream.

by Kilgore on Nov 17, 2010 1:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Mediocre

He’s decent, nothing special. Vast improvement over the other punters we’ve had over the past two years though.

by Sander on Nov 17, 2010 4:16 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd still say our kick coverage is very good

Our return game has only had one good game all season, though.

Punt-blocking unit is probably the highlight of special teams.

by Sander on Nov 17, 2010 4:16 PM PST up reply actions  

wow

j.morgan is better then m.williams…………… williams just a littile faster

by VINNIE MAC on Nov 17, 2010 11:42 AM PST reply actions  

Definately not

Mike Williams is much better than Morgan. Williams would have been a first round pick, behind only Dez Bryant, if not for his character issues. He may not do the little things that Morgan does, but Williams is and will be a much better receiver.

by Joshuahss on Nov 17, 2010 1:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know what the little things Josh Morgan does are

But what I’ve been surprised by is that Mike Williams has even been a very willing and decent run blocker.

Josh Morgan’s a good receiver. No way is he better than Mike Williams, at least not in terms of talent.

by Sander on Nov 17, 2010 4:18 PM PST up reply actions  

No Morgan is not even that good

He divides opinions, but many don’t see him as more than a 3rd receiver. When blocking is the thing you are most heralded about as a wideout you are not stacking the statsheet with receptions. Many fans are clamouring for our secret weapon Dominique Ziegler to become the no.2.

by fasupala on Nov 17, 2010 7:45 PM PST up reply actions  

huh?

That’s not true

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 18, 2010 5:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Last time I checked...

M. Williams was on track for 1100 yards, 9 TDs.

Josh Morgan? Not so much.

Fantasy Ontology: the world's most entertaining form of reductionism!
twitter me @grantmp1

by grantmp on Nov 19, 2010 6:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Last time I checked Mike Williams was headed for jail

"I'm blessed..... Thanks, God bless" ...hey, it worked for Tim Tebow.

by Drew Kerr on Nov 19, 2010 8:06 AM PST up reply actions  

It is still a distraction

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 19, 2010 8:54 AM PST up reply actions  

This

Plus they are saying he may not even fly out with the team today.

"I'm blessed..... Thanks, God bless" ...hey, it worked for Tim Tebow.

by Drew Kerr on Nov 19, 2010 9:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Why?

Kellen Moore is awesome

by manraj7 on Nov 19, 2010 9:41 AM PST up reply actions  

He was charged

"I'm blessed..... Thanks, God bless" ...hey, it worked for Tim Tebow.

by Drew Kerr on Nov 19, 2010 10:01 AM PST up reply actions  

So I read

Still, passed the breathalyzer test. Doesn’t seem like there’s any reason to assume he’s in the wrong there.

by Sander on Nov 19, 2010 10:03 AM PST up reply actions  

Do you even know if he took the breathalyzer?

No details have been released except that he did a urine test. He could have opted for a blood test as well.

"I'm blessed..... Thanks, God bless" ...hey, it worked for Tim Tebow.

by Drew Kerr on Nov 19, 2010 10:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes, we know he took a breathalyzer

Got an 0.65 and an 0.61. Legal limit is 0.8. He failed the Field Sobriety Test, which is why he was brought in.

Also, it was just announced he’s starting on Sunday.

by Sander on Nov 19, 2010 10:36 AM PST up reply actions  

I saw that.. still has to be somewhat of a distraction

"I'm blessed..... Thanks, God bless" ...hey, it worked for Tim Tebow.

by Drew Kerr on Nov 19, 2010 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

For him personally... not the team

"I'm blessed..... Thanks, God bless" ...hey, it worked for Tim Tebow.

by Drew Kerr on Nov 19, 2010 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Does mike want me to buy him some drinks saturday night?

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Nov 20, 2010 12:16 PM PST up reply actions  

...

Where are they sending it

Kellen Moore is awesome

by manraj7 on Nov 20, 2010 10:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Uhm,

I don’t know, thats just what the Hillsborough county police department released as the time the tests would come back.

by Sam Joxer on Nov 20, 2010 3:57 PM PST up reply actions  

morgan is so incredibly overrated

he is showing how he was a 6th round pick, we need a better 2nd wideout

by TeeKay89 on Nov 20, 2010 1:28 PM PST up reply actions  

yes, we do

austin pettis in the 3rd round

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Nov 20, 2010 1:41 PM PST up reply actions  

no thanks

he should be benched or cut for ziegler

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Nov 20, 2010 1:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Living near Tampa gives me a chance to follow the Bucs quite closely.

I would have probably watched every one of there games if the ones at home were not blacked out. From what I’ve seen they are a young team who reflects the head coach. They are excitable and energetic, while Freeman has shown tremendous poise for his age. I head alot of people in town bashing the pick before last season, but it looks like they found a gem.

Their offense has a surprising amount of playmakers with a solid young core. Williams and Benn have been much better than expected, but it training camp it was clear Morris thought alot of MW from Cuse. Kellen Winslow is still a threat in certain situations but is not the game changer he appeared to be earlier in his career. Blount has been a solid runner but by all accounts has been horrible in pass protection, which is the reason Cadillac tends to be on the field more often. Graham is an underrated player who finds a way to get positive yards.

On defense their front is young and dealing with a few injuries. They have not sustained much pressure this year and Gerald McCoy is playing like most rookie DL in the league not named Suh. Their ends are nothing to write home about. The Bucs LBs are not the biggest in the league, which is why they give up a bunch of running yards, but they are fast and solid in coverage. Their DBs all tend to go for the big play, especially Aqib Talib. While there numbers are good overall, I don’t think you would find many Bucs fans who fully trust them.

While the Bucs have been a pleasant surprise this year, they appear to be the opposite of the Niners in many respects. Most notably they are able to find a way to win despite being outplayed quite a bit. My wife, a Bucs fan, would kill me for this but I kind of expect them to have a 2nd half similar the Broncos did last year (if not so drastic). All the stars have aligned for them so far and while I think they are on the up, I believe they will end the year losing a few more games including this one (hopefully).

by Joshuahss on Nov 17, 2010 12:06 PM PST reply actions  

Sander- Let me know what you think about my opinions and see if you disagree anywhere. I haven’t looked up the stats to back any of this up either, its mostly from just watching the games.

by Joshuahss on Nov 17, 2010 12:18 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not Sander...

…but I agree with your first 3 paragraphs pretty much. I hope you’re wrong about the last one.

If you will it, dude, it is no dream.

by Kilgore on Nov 17, 2010 1:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree that the team has played above its talent/skill level up to this point

And an easy schedule has helped, a lot. However, this team has gotten better in every game and the second half schedule is still very easy. You’re right that we’ve been lucky – being 6-3 with a negative points record doesn’t happen without luck, and I expect us to take a small step backwards next year when the schedule will likely be harder. But the future is very bright.

I think you’re underestimating Stylez G. White at DE though, and while the secondary gives up a big play per game it’s still very good.

by Sander on Nov 17, 2010 4:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Surprised nobody has asked this yet...

Do you think the Bucs are as good as their record shows? Reason I’m asking is the Buc’s have scored less points than they have given up, and have yet to beat a team with a winning record.

It seems like the Bucs are the EXACT opposite of the Niners. The ball is bouncing the Bucs way, and not the Niners. We are losing the close games, whereas the Bucs are winning them.

Do you guys really expect a playoff berth this year or do you think your 2nd half of the season, will be much worse than the 1st?

by hudd07 on Nov 17, 2010 4:04 PM PST reply actions  

The Bucs are not as good as their record says

But they won’t collapse the second half, because the schedule in the second half is just as easy as the schedule in the first half.

What’s impressed me most is that the team hasn’t missed a beat through a lot of injuries.

by Sander on Nov 17, 2010 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Its impressive they have won as well

irregardless of a weak schedule or not, you guys are winning.

We are losing to CAR for pete sakes.

by hudd07 on Nov 17, 2010 9:31 PM PST up reply actions  

good question

I think we’ve benefitted from an “easy” schedule to some degree, but I do think we’re as good as our record. Almost anyway…

Two of our three losses were absolute blowouts at the hands of the Saints and the Steelers (both games at home). With the exception of the Carolina victory last week every game has been close, most of them come from behind victories. There’s something about Freeman that makes the rest of the team and us fans believe that he can win, no matter the scoreboard (within reason of course). These close-margin victories are tough on our nerves but a win is a win, and they explain the differential between points scored and points allowed.

As for our opponents records, we can’t control who our opponents are. We lost by one yard to the Falcons, not to mention some questionable calls, but that’s part of the game.
Every time a team takes a field their record becomes meaningless. I’m sure the Bucs aren’t looking past your team with your record.

If you will it, dude, it is no dream.

by Kilgore on Nov 17, 2010 4:21 PM PST reply actions  

that was @ hudd07

If you will it, dude, it is no dream.

by Kilgore on Nov 17, 2010 4:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Like I said in reply above

Teams may be weak, but you are winning, and that’s the most important thing. A loss is a loss is a loss.

We almost beat a lot of good teams, but didn’t. Ultimately it’s still a loss. But even games we should win, @CAR we still lost.

As for Freeman, he looks REALLY good. I will be honest, I wasn’t a big fan of his coming out of college, but he has WAY exceeded my expectations. I read some stat that he already had like 8 come from behind wins in 4th quarter already? I was like WHOA. Everyone seems to know this is a QB driven league except the Niners head coach, when he said that position was important, but not that important, I almost burned my Niner jersey in my pellet stove and turned into a badmitten fan.

I think the Bucs are moving up in the world, and that’s more than a LOT of teams can say. That being said, I think you guys are playing a little above your pay grade if you will, whereas we are playing below our pay grade. I think the Niners are a better team with even a competent coach. I’m really interested to see which Niners team comes out on Sunday. Is it the team that dominated SEA in first half, shut down Brees for most part, held Manning without a TD last year, or the Niners that got blown out by KC, beaten by CAR, gave up game winning TD by Favre last year, and gets out coached on a weekly basis.

I know I’m rambling, I guess the main point here is Bucs have the wins, we don’t. However, I don’t think talentwise they are a 6-3 team, and we aren’t a 3-6 team. I expect the Niners to win at home in the slop.

by hudd07 on Nov 17, 2010 9:39 PM PST up reply actions  

hudd, you gotta let go of the loss to Carolina. The Niners led mostly the entire game but the QB got hurt and Carr played. Plus, Clause never played for Carolina otherwise we’d still have won. It sucks but that was the one day that most everything went well for Carolina.

Thank you SF Giants for an incredible 2010 season and painting the City orange & black!
You gotta bring ass to get ass.

by SpurredOn on Nov 17, 2010 10:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Seems like it happens more times than not.

The other team has the better game, everything goes well for them, and we shoot ourselves in the foot constantly. I’m not dwelling on CAR game, just the fact that we lost to a team that hadn’t won yet, and still only has one win.

by hudd07 on Nov 17, 2010 10:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I think if Moore started all their games they’d have more than one win. I think if Alex hadn’t been injured the Niners still would have won. Now that Clausen is the guy for the remainder of the season, one win is were they will likely stay.

Thank you SF Giants for an incredible 2010 season and painting the City orange & black!
You gotta bring ass to get ass.

by SpurredOn on Nov 18, 2010 12:56 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't know about Smith

Niners have found a way to lose pretty much every game in the 4th. I don’t know if Alex would have changed it or not. Our defense in the 4th quarter is weak, it’s assuming Smith would have been able to lead us to a win and I’m not sold on that.

by hudd07 on Nov 18, 2010 1:35 PM PST up reply actions  

I think if Moore started all their games they’d have more than one win. I think if Alex hadn’t been injured the Niners still would have won. Now that Clausen is the guy for the remainder of the season, one win is were they will likely stay.

Thank you SF Giants for an incredible 2010 season and painting the City orange & black!
You gotta bring ass to get ass.

by SpurredOn on Nov 18, 2010 12:56 AM PST up reply actions  

I do most of the writing here in regards to college football...

How do you all feel about Gerald McCoy so far… I also have to interject that I am a die-hard Sooners fan on top of being a Niners fan. He hasn’t got a sack yet but he’s managed to get a few tackles, force a couple fumbles, and bat down a few passes.

Second question is this: Do you feel that you will stay in first place with New Orleans and Atlanta in that division? If so, why?

"I'm blessed..... Thanks, God bless" ...hey, it worked for Tim Tebow.

by Drew Kerr on Nov 17, 2010 10:32 PM PST reply actions  

I know it's not to me but my 2 cents

But I think aside from Suh, most DL guys take a while to get up to speed in the NFL.

As for first place, I don’t think there is anyway that happens. Not with those two teams. I read Clayton’s mailbag today and he said he thought TB would get to 9 wins and still miss the playoffs.

by hudd07 on Nov 17, 2010 10:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Gerald McCoy is coming along

He didn’t have an immediate impact, but there are a couple plays in each game where he destroys his opponents and then barely misses on the sack. The last couple weeks he’s gotten a lot better. He’s still developing as an NFL player but you can see the talent’s there, it just has to click for him.

by Sander on Nov 18, 2010 6:15 AM PST up reply actions  

You didn't answer the second question there...

"I'm blessed..... Thanks, God bless" ...hey, it worked for Tim Tebow.

by Drew Kerr on Nov 18, 2010 2:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Ah, missed that, thanks

Since we’re not in first place in the division I don’t see us staying in first place, no. We’ve lost games to both the Saints and Falcons and that hurts as well. I don’t think we really have a chance to win the division unless the Falcons and Saints somehow collapse, but we do have a chance to grab a Wild Card.

by Sander on Nov 18, 2010 2:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I guess I meant 2nd. In anycase, I was wrong.

"I'm blessed..... Thanks, God bless" ...hey, it worked for Tim Tebow.

by Drew Kerr on Nov 18, 2010 9:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Pass defense

The Bucs’ pass defense is ranked high despite not collecting sacks on the opposing QB. What do you think factors most into this:

- Great DBs and coverage despite a poor pass rush?
- Excellent scheme that prevents big plays and makes the most of who plays?
- Opponents choosing to run on a weaker DL and LBs, thus skewing the numbers away from passing yards allowed?

Thank you SF Giants for an incredible 2010 season and painting the City orange & black!
You gotta bring ass to get ass.

by SpurredOn on Nov 17, 2010 10:43 PM PST reply actions  

I know its not directed at me, but it's option number 3 and 1. they have great CB's plus they create turnovers, ie, fumbles and Int's.

2010 in memory of the 1970 Bengals.......
Nate clements: Hey coach, had you put a better gameplan together, i wouldn't have fumbled!!

by rlott#42 on Nov 17, 2010 10:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Well

Number 3 is true to an extent, but the Bucs defense is also relatively good on a per-play basis so that doesn’t factor in as much.
The scheme is a bit up and down as blitzes have been largely ineffective, while also putting the secondary in man-to-man coverage. But when we don’t blitz the scheme has worked very well and has put people in position to make plays.The DBs are good as well, especially Aqib Talib, which certainly helps.
So really, it’s a combination of the three.

it also helps that we’ve faced a very weak schedule, of course.

by Sander on Nov 18, 2010 6:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Appreciate the answer.

Thank you SF Giants for an incredible 2010 season and painting the City orange & black!
You gotta bring ass to get ass.

by SpurredOn on Nov 20, 2010 12:17 AM PST up reply actions  

How's Preston Parker?

"...Ehh...I don't really know right now still stuck in Game Mode" - Lil Timmy Jim

by supraman on Nov 18, 2010 3:43 PM PST reply actions  

Unknown

He’s gotten on the field but he hasn’t done anything good (or bad) yet.

by Sander on Nov 18, 2010 3:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Do you guys believe in Raheem Morris?

From the moment he was hired I thought he would be a tremendous failure.
I was right in the 2009 season because it was a disaster.
I’m guessing that you guys have some excellent assistant coaches that have done a great job of developing Freeman and have saved Morris’ [site decorum]

To me, he’s just Mike Singletary without the credibility.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 18, 2010 5:47 PM PST reply actions  

I see you know nothing of Raheem Morris

Opinions about Morris are split in the fanbase. But Raheem Morris was a stellar defensive backs coach (and did very well as a DC in college for a year) who got promoted quickly, probably in part because the owners didn’t want to lose him.

While you can doubt his schemes, you cannot doubt the job he’s done to get these players motivated, believing in themselves and fighting through every game. This is an extremely young football team that is winning games despite its youth, and hasn’t really missed a beat despite many injuries. That’s a credit to the head coaching job Raheem Morris has done.

by Sander on Nov 18, 2010 6:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes

I know nothing of Raheem Morris.

After Sunday’s game I think you will find that you knew nothing about Troy Smith.

Game On!

'Careful Grasshopper ~ that's a god you're mauling.'

by riderless on Nov 18, 2010 6:45 PM PST up reply actions  

and Justin Smith hahahah

Californa is world PVP at it's finest.

by Sammallory on Nov 18, 2010 6:50 PM PST up reply actions  

What about last year?

When he badly mishandled the QB situation and everything was in disarray?

His schemes don’t seem so good to me. You seem to have the worst run defense in the league and your pass defense isn’t that great.
I mean, I really like Aquib Talib (and I think he’ll probably pick off Troy Smith on Sunday) and Barber is a very good DB but your “schemes” are nothing to write home about.

I actually credit the QB coach and offensive coordinator for properly developing Freeman.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 19, 2010 8:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Last year was a disaster

The offensive coordinator was fired just before the season and the defense coordinator was fired midway through the season.

This year has been very different. The team has been stable, it has played well despite youth, it has not collapsed after disappointing losses as young teams can do and he has the team playing above their level. You can criticise his schemes, and I sure do, but as a motivator and a head coach he seems pretty good.

by Sander on Nov 19, 2010 9:14 AM PST up reply actions  

But wouldn't you say they've been successful because of the new assistants?

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 21, 2010 1:43 AM PST up reply actions  

I can't say that

The only significant new assistant was Alex van Pelt anyway.

by Sander on Nov 21, 2010 6:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Uh, what?

Singletary and Morris are about as far apart in coaching approach as I think you can get.

That is not an indictment against either one, but Raheem was hired primarily because he is a players coach, young, and willing to try new schemes. Singletary has always struck me as the old school, pound the rock, shove it down their throats, angry old style coach.

Last year Morris did not do a good job, but that is primarily from the turmoil that was going on with the team, the jettison of a lot of veteran players, massive coaching staff changes, and the QB debacle. He seemed disorganized at first and it took about half of last year before things started to congeal.

This year he has been far more pleasant and I think he actually is doing a very god job. He has grown into the head coaching role and his defensive ideas are exciting(but questionably effective).

Personally I’d like a defensive coordinator hired that is Morris’ pick(Bates was reportedly picked by the Glazers). We’ve seen the improvement of adding a QB coach in Van Pelt that I think has made Olson a better coordinator, and having a DC would I think help with the defense in a similar way.

by Sam Joxer on Nov 20, 2010 10:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Both guys are player's coaches. Singletary loves his guys.

You don’t think he’s been disorganized this year?

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Nov 21, 2010 1:45 AM PST up reply actions  

If Alex worked like I planed he would work and not have so many darn turnovers

We would be loving Sing. Which is why I still love Sing and his players still love him. But ya horribly disorganized I blame the offense.

Kellen Moore is awesome

by manraj7 on Nov 21, 2010 2:01 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm not saying they are different in every single way.

I’m sure the players love Singletary. But Raheem took Talib to an Orlando Magic game last year. Other than Jeremy Stevenson, I don’t think there has been a player that has been punished by the team for a mistake. He isn’t just liked by the players, he seems to go out of his way to do nice things for them.

In truth, last year I would have liked a coach more like Singletary than one like Raheem. I think the old school, RRTP offense is one of the most consistent ways to win in the NFL. I think he’s changed the way the 9er’s are looked at. I used to think the 9er’s were always going to be a tactical team that threw a lot. Now I associate the team with your tenacious defense and hard running Frank Gore. Part of that change has to be credited to Singletary.

This year though Raheem has really pulled his act together. The only criticism I have is on defense he tended to use some more extreme defensive fronts and blitz’s even though they didn’t really work all that well. Things like 3-3-5, zone blitz’s, and copies of the Bengals blitzing scheme from last year are interesting, but are a little crazy to use when you know you have a young team. Other people have criticized him for being too much of a players coach, and also for his use of challenges. He hasn’t been disorganized like last year.

by Sam Joxer on Nov 21, 2010 12:11 PM PST up reply actions  

How is Watson in coverage?

I heard he is starting

Kellen Moore is awesome

by manraj7 on Nov 18, 2010 6:27 PM PST reply actions  

He may be

If Quincy Black is out, though he’ll be splitting time with Hayward. They didn’t look like liabilities last game, but that’s about all I can say about them.

by Sander on Nov 18, 2010 6:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Do you wish that Florida had medical marijuana

and would you smoke it outside in the parking lot like a niner fan and eat big cheeseburgers while sipping on your favorite brew ?

Californa is world PVP at it's finest.

by Sammallory on Nov 18, 2010 6:49 PM PST reply actions  

Yes, even though I live in seattle.

no (more like a Bucs fans), no (I prefer ribs), yes (IPA).

If you will it, dude, it is no dream.

by Kilgore on Nov 19, 2010 2:42 PM PST up reply actions  

elysian makes a nice brew

really dig on their imperial pumpkin stout.

by t p on Nov 19, 2010 3:10 PM PST up reply actions  

3rd Down Conversions

When reviewing the stats for your Defense on NFL.com, I noticed your Defense allows a pretty high rate of 3rd down conversions (46.2%). The stats don’t tell me if they are from runs or passes, short or long. But from many of your comments, you say you have played a very weak schedule, so from what you have seen, what has been your biggest problem with preventing 3rd down conversions?
(this was an issue for us last week. Troy Smith, although amazing overall, was 0 for 11 on 3rd downs)

by AKinferno on Nov 19, 2010 1:53 AM PST reply actions  

Smith...

If he even goes 30% on 3rd downs this week and plays like he did on 1st and 2nd downs last week, Tampa could have their hands full.

"I'm blessed..... Thanks, God bless" ...hey, it worked for Tim Tebow.

by Drew Kerr on Nov 19, 2010 8:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Well we often end up in 3rd&shorts

And that doesn’t help. But we’ve allowed a lot of 3rd& medium and 3rd&longs through the air too.

by Sander on Nov 19, 2010 8:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Comeback victories

Sorry, I didn’t think about this when I wrote the previous post, but I also read about Freeman. 6 of his last 9 wins have been from comeback victories. Does this seem like that will be par for the course with him? Is he more effective at the hurry up offense or does it have more to do with defenses playing a looser prevent defense trying to hold the lead? Were they impressive/decisive comebacks or did he just barely manage to get down to field goal range?

by AKinferno on Nov 19, 2010 2:01 AM PST reply actions  

He looks better in a hurry-up

But it’s tough to say why/ Some of it may be that he’s moving to checkdowns quicker than usual, as he tends to wait for a play to develop perfectly during the rest of the game. Some of it may be playcalling. Some of it may be a tired defense or a different style of defense. Tough to say, but he looks very cool and collected during the two-minute offense. All of the comebacks were impressive and decisive, all of them happened while moving the ball downfield consistently.

by Sander on Nov 19, 2010 8:37 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree

It seems like Freeman wants to go deep, and he can, but in the 2-minute he doesn’t waste any time, just gets the ball to whoever’s open, thus moving the chains straight down the field. He’s just got a belief that if he has the ball in the last few minutes and we’re within a touchdown, he can just overcome anything. He believes, the rest of the team believes, and the fans are starting to as well. Lot of fun to watch…

If you will it, dude, it is no dream.

by Kilgore on Nov 19, 2010 2:45 PM PST up reply actions  

We have too small a sample to know if Troy is like that

So far, he has come from behind in 4th twice. He too is very calm and collected it seems. But it does make me nervous. We have not really had a decisive victory. It seems our games are always close near the end. Denver was the only exception, and most of the points came in the 4th.

Thanks for the input, and taking the time to post over here. Think it could be a good game on Sunday. I am hoping it’s not, I would feel much more comfortable with us scoring at will :p Good luck to your team.

by AKinferno on Nov 19, 2010 4:46 PM PST up reply actions  

so do you think there will be a change and Mike Williams might end up getting suspended?

If not by Morris then by Mister GODdell himself? I saw the convo up top about whether he passed the test or not etc. but Goodell has already shown he will hand out suspensions whether guilty or not and this seems like a situation where he might suspend Williams just for being in that situation. If he does get suspended is that GG?

by afrikabamboodle on Nov 20, 2010 11:44 AM PST reply actions  

Nope

People don’t get suspended for DUIs, or at least: they don’t get suspended for their first DUI. Subsequent DUIs can lead to suspensions. Remember the Braylon Edwards DUI earlier this year? That didn’t result in a suspension either, and that was a clear DUI – blew twice the legal limit.

Unless the urine test comes back positive for some sort of drug I expect this to be over, really.

by Sander on Nov 20, 2010 12:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Rex Ryan 'suspended' him for the first quarter

He still played in that game, just didn’t start.

It’s possible the team imposes a suspension if he does get convicted for a DUI, but I doubt it. The team’s already said they’ll be disciplining him ‘internally’ (probably a fine).

by Sander on Nov 20, 2010 12:41 PM PST up reply actions  

lame how about a 4 quarter suspension

I would be happy about that.

Kellen Moore is awesome

by manraj7 on Nov 20, 2010 1:09 PM PST up reply actions  

So what happened with Gruden anyway?

As far as i know he won the SB against the Raiders and then vanished. What happened? I’ve heard a few people here at NN recommending him as our new HC or that he might end up in Dallas. If there is a demand for him why has he been an announcer for the past year or so?

by afrikabamboodle on Nov 20, 2010 12:56 PM PST reply actions  

Part of it is that the Bucs are still paying him

There was no offsetting language in his contract for non-coaching jobs so he’s still getting his full coaching salary, and I think he has another 1 or 2 years left as well.

After the Raiders the team has been very up and down. The defense remained fairly constant throughout Gruden’s tenure except for the last weeks in ‘08, but Gruden never really ran the defense. There was never a stable offense under Gruden, and bad drafting and salary cap woes limited the talent at his disposal for most of his years in Tampa Bay. The QB position specifically was a mess, and as you guys know it’s really tough to win then.

What eventually did him in supposedly (the owners never reallys aid) was a refusal to build for the future and an insistence on going with short-term free agent solutions.

by Sander on Nov 20, 2010 1:26 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I wish the Niners fans calling for Gruden as a savior took this into consideration.

Thank you SF Giants for an incredible 2010 season and painting the City orange & black!
You gotta bring ass to get ass.

by SpurredOn on Nov 20, 2010 3:27 PM PST up reply actions  

They've been the lowest in spending in the NFL over the past years

And they’re bottom of the league right now, with a payroll of about $80M. You can construct a narrative where that happened because they’re cheap, and a narrative where it happened because of circumstance (missing out on some highly priced free agents, salary cap problems, no draft picks worthy of a new contract, building for the future, lack of a CBA). The fact that they’re also responsible for the highly publicized Manchester United debt situation doesn’t plead for them.

I, personally, don’t think they’re trying to be the Pittsburgh Pirates, but there’s a part of the fanbase that resents the lack of spending.

by Sander on Nov 20, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions  

And.... they offered Haynesworth more money than Washington,

gave inflated contracts to Clayton and Ward… I think they’re willing to spend money, just not in the best ways unfortunately. Not sure how much of that lies at their feet or Dominic’s (our GM) though.

Also, when all the Glazer brothers are together they look incredibly douchey.

If you will it, dude, it is no dream.

by Kilgore on Nov 20, 2010 6:27 PM PST up reply actions  

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