So Really, What's Up With The Return Game?
by James Brady on Nov 20, 2010 6:09 AM PST
in San Francisco 49ers News
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PrintYou know, the aspect of the 49ers that has garnered the least amount of discussion here at Niners Nation has been the return game. Whereas last season, it was essentially the focal point of a good portion of discussions. Last year we had Brandon Jones, Arnaz Battle, Nate Clements, Delanie Walker, Josh Morgan, Michael Robinson, Allen Rossum and, albeit accidentally, Kentwan Balmer returning kicks or punts. I might be missing out on someone, but suffice to say that the 49ers were absolutely abysmal in that regard.
So the team went out, traded for Ted Ginn Jr., a well-received move here at NN, drafted a couple guys with the ability to do so in Kyle Williams and Phillip Adams, brought in LeRoy Vann to no avail, and then ... what now? As Barrows noted a couple days ago, there's no "pop," in the return game.
The 49ers have not cracked the top twenty in either punt or kick return average and probably won't this year unless Ted Ginn really turns it on. When I see him back there, I don't see the same returner that we saw in Miami. Ginn trips and falls, he dives, and he certainly shies away from any and all contact. What happened to Ted Ginn? Where is Kyle Williams? Does Phillip Adams have any ability?
Ginn is Ginn, I think we need to keep him there on kickoffs, and the one good thing I can say is that, by playing it safe and not making big risks like he did in Miami, he's done a good job of protecting the ball. He's also pretty good with the trickery and deceiving when it comes to fair catching punts. Again though, there's not much to look forward to when the 49ers are going for returns, and that is most certainly not indicative of his usual play. Still, I like Ginn for kickoffs, at the very least.
What about Kyle Williams? He's banged up, sure - but is he still banged up? Williams was ready to go a couple weeks ago and we didn't see him anywhere. Returning punts in the preseason, for the one or two he was able, he looked pretty good out there. At this point, do we put him out there just for the fact that Ted Ginn isn't providing that much of a "wow" factor, or do we keep Ginn for his ball protection on punts?
Phillip Adams probably isn't an option any longer as he's dropped a couple, and keeping the ball is key. Still worth noting that he wasn't afraid to get hit out there. The last option would be RB Brian Westbrook, and I don't know how I feel about that. I guess I don't know much about him as a returner.
Lastly, let me say that our special teams blocking has been downright atrocious of late. I don't blame Ted Ginn for every time he falls down instead of getting slammed, because the Niners have been suffering big time without Michael Robinson. There is nobody directing traffic on kickoffs, which is something M-Rob excelled at. There is rarely a lead blocker who makes his block, and most importantly: not a single player on the kickoff team who demands a double team when it comes to setting up returns.
Tampa Bay has one of the better punt coverage units in the league, and a middle-of-the-pack kick return coverage unit.
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Feels like Williams has been out forever
I guess the team feels like they’ve got guys who can contribute more than Williams has. I don’t recall seeing him listed as limited, and Ginn is already something of a specialist so I can see why they wouldn’t want them both on the 45-man active roster. Of course if Ginn contributed more as a receiver, then I’d want Williams active just in case.
If the Niners could get a couple of splash plays in the return game, and steal a game that they didn’t deserve, that would be fantastic—that’s basically how the Seahawks beat the Chargers a number of weeks ago.
Still, I’m just happy that the Niners aren’t having the killer fumbles and muffs that they had last year. I’m not sure Schottenheimer has anything to do with the improvement in that department—Everest seemed like something of a scapegoat to me.
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Williams was healthy going into the Raiders game, and has been healthy since.
Just for reference.
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Conservative approach...
I believe they are just satisfied with having a mistake free game on kick/punt units. Well that’s great and all it only puts more pressure on the offense. I think Ginn had some great returns a couple of games ago, probably against the eagles. If they can get that spark from special teams it can allow the offense to put over 20+ points.
by STR8CASH..HOMIE on Nov 20, 2010 7:07 AM PST via mobile reply actions
I think ginn is doing well anytime he has room
he makes the most of his opportunity. if you notice we dont get down field far enough for a good punt return. early in the season we were typically having 3 and out series. once our opponent got the ball they more often then not crossed our 50 yard line so when they had possession they would either be in position to kick a Fg or put alot of hang on their punts. Thats if they didn’t score a td. Its only so much you can do when a punt is hanging in the air for so long in your own 20. By the time Ginn has fielded the punt he’s surrounded. one mishap and they have the ball on their on 20. as far as kick returns you have to realize Ginn didnt play his first game until week 5 when we played the eagles and he popped one off for like 65 yards. thats only 4 games returning punts and kicks. and teams haven’t been scoring as much as they were in the begining of the season so he hasn’t had the opportunity to return as many Kick offs so it isn’t ginns fault IMO
I think our blocking is struggling a bit
Ginn doesn’t fair catch every single ball, but if he’s gonna get clobbered, I think it’s the right choice, even if it’s decidedly unsexy. We haven’t had any major faux pas in the return game this season, which is a big step forward from last year.
I think K. Williams is probably there for insurance, since Ginn is (comparatively) tiny and will probably get injured if he takes many big hits, and Williams himself tends to be injury-prone, so Ginn gets most of the reps.
Overall, I voted to keep Ginn in. He hasn’t done a ton of right, but he’s not done any major wrong, either, and that’s too big of an upgrade from last season to pass on for an unknown. If he falters, Williams is available and capable.
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This
Our PR blocking had no way of stopping STL’s gunners. Ginn had his best shot at a return on their last punt, & it was amazing how their gunners were able to shut that down in a hurry. Isn’t Mays one of our gunner blockers? You’d think he could put a few good hits on guys heading downfield!
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by Mangoman on Nov 20, 2010 10:30 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Yes, the blocking vs. the St. Louis gunners was atrocious
They consistently got free against the Niners PR blockers, which basically forced Ginn into the Fair Catches, which I was totally fine with. However, something that should be taken into account was the fact that that game was in Candlestick, which is notorious for its swirling winds. Ball security trumps return yardage in this instance (esp. as the game was still competitive). It’ll be interesting to track how different the PR game is in better (less windy) conditions.
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Injuries and Free agency are to blame
Our core Special Teams guys are either out for the year or are on other teams. No turnovers all year from the Special Teams is a good thing but I agree that there isnt much they are doing but Ted like any other returner can’t do much if there are no lanes to run through. Most of the blocker on the coverage unit are new guys and it takes awhile to get use to each other
Yeah, but these are the Saints we're talking about.
The muffed punt was probably like a centimeter from going out of bounds.
by fanoftheunderdogs on Nov 20, 2010 8:57 AM PST up reply actions
Can't really fire a guy from a single mistake like that
It’s like benching Baas for just high snapping one ball. Adams can take it to the house on any given return.
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Philip Adams was never a return guy
He just happened to do it in college a few times. It wasn’t his forte, though he did look exciting in the preseason. He blew it a couple times in the Saints game if I recall correctly. It was really disappointing but not totally unexpected, given his lack of experience in returns and big games.
Looking at the blocking he gets...
I’m not surprised nor do I blame him for shying away from contact and diving. I mean, you can only have so many different returners fail before you have to start looking at the special teams blocking,
by fanoftheunderdogs on Nov 20, 2010 8:56 AM PST reply actions
agree..........
He has no time to catch and get up the field. When he catches it, they are right on him. I didn’t see M Rob getting the returners much more time last year. The Special Teams coach deserves a lot of blame. Where is the practice during the week on blocking for what could turn into an X factor for us.
M-Rob was the only reason any return worked last year.
He makes his blocks. Nobody else makes their’s.
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Coaching deficiency!
Unfortunately they went out and hired a guy that hadn’t coached special teams for years. Another of Singletarys questionable
hires.
by STR8CASH..HOMIE on Nov 20, 2010 10:35 AM PST via mobile reply actions
definitely problems with coaching which leads to problems with blocking
On the bright side I no longer have to pray and close my eyes right before our returner catches a punt hoping he doesn’t muff it. On the other hand gunners seem to reach Ginn about a second or two before the ball even comes down. You would think having 2 guys lined up in front of their gunners would help slow them down but it’s not happening. Is it just me or does it seem like most of the punters that we have faced so far have a ridiculous amount of hang time on their kicks? Those things seem to float in the air FOREVER.
by afrikabamboodle on Nov 20, 2010 10:58 AM PST reply actions
How soon we forget...
How ATROCIOUS our special teams play was last year. It literally lead to a few losses. I think Ginn is going a solid job, especially in the Kickoff game. He’s has some really nice run backs this year and just the fact that he’s not muffing punts is a plus for me. I’ll take ball security and giving our offense a chance over a few explosive returns any day.
He doesn't turn over the punts
and if he has room he runs. I’m going to say the return game isn’t as bad as you make it out to be. If anything the blocking schemes could be tweeked a bit to give him room on one side or the other. All it takes is a couple good blocks for 6.
How exactly do I make it out to be?
There’s not much opinion right there at all – I talked about where they were ranked why that possibly is. How am I making them out to be anything?
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You are asking who's to blame...
When in fact the return game is one of the only improvements over last year.
And it was supposed to be be better.
Still don’t see how I’m making it out to be anything other than what it is – I presented the stats (nothing in the top twenty) and talked about why that could be.
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I see that, but your post put Ted Ginn in the hotseat.
When the return game has so much more to do with blocking schemes set up by the coaches and executed by special teams.
I disagree the return game is a problem area worth discussing as such.
So I question why would you ask who’s to blame in the first place? Then, asking who’s to blame, why would you leave out the coaches and the blockers?
Conservative on punt returns
I agree the blocking on kick returns hasn’t been very good. Although not stellar on punt returns I think the 49ers have been leaving yards on the field. A typical punt is caught than returned for 4 yards before immediately tackled. The 49ers have been calling for the fair catch non-stop and has there has been room to get a few yards. I think it’s a coach’s order from above. My guess is the coaches are thinking ball security and trying not to get Ginn dinged up.
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Westbrook
I think is something this team should at least entertain. I believe Andy Reid used him in meaningful punt situations before. Plus, as a RB, close encounters and contact is something he should be used to. I like Ginn for kickoffs too because he actually has time to plot his route which does two things. One, helps to minimize contact he naturally attempts to avoid in his game. Two, increases the chances of success “getting a head start” with his speed.
I would think that the Eagles used him more as a sure hands guy
although, back then he definitely had a little more speed than now. I would certainly think that Ginn is faster, and he does seem to have good hands at least.
This makes me think about the Patriots, who would often use Kevin Faulk for Punts. This was not a guy who could burn it back up the field for a significant gain, but he was always a guy who was going to catch the ball. There were faster guys on the team, but maybe none as dependable.
Well, it's better than last year, but not significantly so
and I think more than anything else is that there has been a dearth of big plays there. It is highlighted even more when you’ve got an offense that struggles to put drives together and struggles to score points. It’s definitely a plus to not have a bumbling special teams, where there are mistakes and fumbles and lost possessions, but it certainly would be nice to see some more production there.
As to why, i think it’s a bit of a mixture, some average blocking and average return skills. Still, one play can change it all, here’s to hoping ti happens tomorrow at rain soaked candlestick.
MROB MROB MROB MROB MROM
and oh yeah, MRob.
Although I think ST has been more than slightly improved, there is no doubt we should have kept MRob for the following reasons;
1) Westbrook is a waste of space since we don’t use him.
1a) For how we use him MRob would certainly be no loss. Robinson’s contributions on offense as minimal as they were, were better than WB’s.
2) He was a leader in the locker room.
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
"Ginn trips and falls, he dives, and he certainly shies away from any and all contact"
Hate to tell you but that is the real Ted Ginn. He’s feast or famine. The next tackle he breaks will be the first. Even at Ohio State he was more show than substance. Buckeye fans saw more than enough of him running out of bounds or falling down at the breeze of a passing tackler. He’d break just enough long ones to keep you hoping. Even as a receiver he was overestimated. The tough catches went to Anthony Gonzales. They saved the receiver screens and the long routes for Ginn.
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