The Post I've Dreaded: Mike Singletary Has Overstayed My Personal Welcome
by James Brady on Nov 22, 2010 3:00 PM PST
in San Francisco 49ers News
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PrintI think a good many of you will identify with aspects of this post. Some of you will disagree with parts of it, and agree with others. The reason this is a dreaded post is simple: I like Mike Singletary. My tune regarding his attitude, speeches and above-all, his coaching have changed and taken a turn for the worse of late, but I cannot deny that I was a strong Singletary supporter at one point. A lot of us had our doubts regarding his actual coaching ability, but he would make up for it in fire, wouldn't he? London Niner is one member I recall who has recently started speaking out against Singletary, and every time he does it's just a bitter-sweet tone. That's because our lovable Brit grew to admire Singletary the person and the coach as one entity, and it's one reason why it's taken me so long to write a post like this.
I think Mike Singletary should be fired, now I'll wait for the stunned silence. Did you digest that? There's just so many reasons for this, but to put it one way: Singletary is not an NFL head coach. We bought into the hype and we reasoned with ourselves that his motivation and attitude would bring us to the promised land, despite his obvious deficiencies, like ... never having actual, factual coaching experience in the NFL. Singletary could probably be one of the best assistant head coaches in the league, but he shouldered far too much.
Mike Singletary spent the entirety of his life learning how to be one of the greatest linebackers to ever play the game, do you know how many years he spent learning how to be a head coach? Maybe one, while also working full-time as a linebackers coach and assistant to the head coach. He did not spend his life devoted to the intricacies of coaching and gameplanning. He's not a master strategist, he's a master motivator; yet he's had a lapse there as well.
Yesterday, Mike Singletary was out-coached in every aspect of the game. Raheem Morris, eighteen years younger than Singletary, put together a gameplan that was tailor-made to beat a team that would have a one-track mind. The 49ers deficiencies are clear and out there for everybody, and it falls on Singletary and his assistants to disguise and correct them. Raheem out-coached Mike at every single turn, and looked like a genius doing it, in only his second full-year as an NFL head coach.
Offensive coordinator Mike Johnson's gameplan reeked of Mike Singletary. I'm sure that Johnson isn't the for-sure answer at offensive coordinator, but you don't go from that game against St. Louis to the performance against Tampa Bay.
The 49ers entered the game with the correct gameplan: run the ball. Move the rock, get Frank Gore with the ball in his hands and you have the key to beating the 31st-in-the-league rushing defense. The thing is, Singletary became obsessed that number, assured everyone around him and himself that it would eventually pay off. Come halftime, Gore hadn't done anything and the 49ers made zero adjustments. They didn't change it up, get Troy a moving pocket and sling it downfield to Delanie Walker or Vernon Davis. They kept plugging away, they tried to "impose their will."
A good offense under a good head coach knows that imposing your will is something you want to do early, but a good offense under a good head coach knows when to impose their will and when to just take what the defense is giving them. Mike Singletary needs to look at the film, but I watched it live, he won't find any rogue touchdowns that we all happened to miss live when he reviews the tape. The 49ers kept running, and the Buccaneers continued to keep stopping them. Even the lowly Buffallo Bills fight every time they are out there. They don't win games, same as the 49ers, but the fans are watching a team that at least has some semblance of coaching there; just no talent. What could a real head coach do with Michael Crabtree and Vernon Davis? It's not that Alex Smith and Troy Smith are particularly bad, it's not that Nate Davis learns this slow, it's that San Francisco is the place quarterbacks go to die. There is not a single quarterback that would have won the game yesterday for the 49ers.
Often, I find myself falling back on mixed martial arts (MMA) references. For this case, I'll cite BJ Penn of the UFC. Penn recently dropped two straight losses to Frankie Edgar, a man who entered as the underdog in both fights, even after taking the belt from Penn in the first meeting. BJ Penn is renowned for weak training camps, lazy nutrition and more than anything: not really having a coach in his entourage.
Frankie Edgar came into their five-round fight with a gameplan. He would out-box Penn and secure takedowns when he tired Penn out with the standup. He would work circles around him with his speed and not give Penn an advantageous position. One thing in particular was eerily similar to the 49ers. After round four of their second fight, BJ Penn went to his corner down in the fight. He was down 40-36, having lost all four rounds to Edgar and his boxing. Penn needed a finish, sure, but his corner is supposed to be the clear-thinking entity that can guide him. His corner hasn't had their brain jumbled for twenty minutes. They need to guide Penn to a finish, here.
Kick his ass BJ! Knock this mother****** out! - BJ Penn's excellent strategists.
I'm sorry, but is that a coach, or is that a fan? Is that a gameplanning strategist, or a drunken buddy? When Frankie Edgar went to his corner, despite being up 40-36 on the judges scorecards with a unanimous decision coming his way, his corner kept the gameplan going. They told him "You're doing fine, keep working. Watch the right hook, it's flying with reckless abandon. Use it to set up the takedown," things of that nature. They guided him to victory. Guess which one of the two fighters' corners Mike Singletary and co represent?
The 49ers kept on fighting a losing battle with a losing strategy, by means of a losing coach. Today, Brad Childress was fired in Minnesota after leading the Vikings to a 3-7 record. These are the very same Vikings that were Super Bowl favorites on many preseason prediction pieces. Wade Phillips was released from his head coaching duties in Dallas following a 1-7 start, after the Cowboys were once again paper champions coming into this season. Mike Singletary has guided the 49ers to 3-7, while the Niners were the favorites to win the division and finish as a top ten team in the league. This kind of thing can't go on much longer.
Hindsight is 20/20 and it's fruitless that I look back on things now and ask "Why in the world did we hire this guy in the first place?" I mean honestly, I wouldn't have my head coach hold the edge on third down or drop back and cover a tight end, why did we let a linebacker with no coaching experience lead one of the most prestigious organizations in football?
It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, because prior to the recent trend, Singletary was such a great guy to listen to. Great guy to be around and was definitely a good thing for this organization. It's a shame that demoting really doesn't work out, because he'd be a great person to keep around as an assistant, as a linebackers coach. Those guys really do look up to him, but it can't work. He has to go and take his spark somewhere else, when he gets there he can hope it catches and spreads like wildfire, and may the waters of the Bay keep it away from here on out.
This all just leaves one problem (if only we just had one problem), and I'll point to a tweet from the Bay Area Sports Guy:
#49ers should keep Singletary because hiring an interim guy would just make the guys play harder and confuse Jed. #theyneedafreshstart
Makes sense, it really does. Do we want Green Bay to lay waste to Mike Singletary and add his trademark stare to their mantle, next to Wade Phillips' impassive stare and Brad Childress' forehead wrinkles? We don't want some false hope and posturing like we were treated to last year. We don't want to be deceived, but then again ... doesn't something need to happen?
Hopefully we can make a move and still be level-headed enough to realize we need a coach with NFL head coaching experience. If the list includes Jon Gruden, Mike Holmgren and Bill Cowher, well fine ... we have to hope Jed York can go out there and lay down some money for those guys, because God knows his father wouldn't.
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You've finally seen the light, James
Come over here for a group hug.
"Too much awesome on my feet."-Brian Wilson
"Time for the laser show, boys!"- Aubrey Huff
2010 World Series Champions San Francisco Giants
That's two days in a row you've attempted to solicit physical contact from me.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
there we go
Finally changed it. I’m accepting any other suggestions.
by David Fucillo on Nov 22, 2010 3:17 PM PST up reply actions
That's a sad day ...
… we should have a Caption This style competition to decide the new slug.
Mike Singletary is not our future
The blog that STILL believes in Kory Sheets
NinersNation – entertaining ALL of Tre9er’s personalities since 2008
Proud member of the legendary David Carr thread and the famous Green Thread.
by LondonNiner on Nov 22, 2010 3:21 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think there’s more than one of us, but I appreciate the sentiment!
Proud member of the legendary David Carr thread and the famous Green Thread.
Got another one ...
…. The Blog That Gave David Carr His Greatest Moment in Pro Football, March 2010.
Proud member of the legendary David Carr thread and the famous Green Thread.
Panthers are thrilled
Might have been the 2nd 0-16 team of all time … David Carr.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
I admit Carr sucked
But he put just as many points on the board as Alex in less time. Sadly, I think he would have improved with actual reps with the team. Which makes Alex the worst QB on the roster.
mmmm
Alex is definitely better than David Carr. C’mon do you really think Carr is better?
I really think Alex is bad
I don’t know crap about Carr. Based on stats, I don’t think he is a starter in this league. I am not gonna take 1/2 of one game to determine he is worse than Alex. But I do know, in his horrible performance, the offense scored as much as it did with Alex that same game. I know with the exception of the wide open pass to VD (okay, and the follow-up TD pass), Alex was horrible before getting hurt. I also think Alex lost us at least 3 of the first 5 games. Football is the ultimate team sport, 1 player can’t win a game by himself. But I think 1 player (especially at QB) can lose it for you.
Carr sucked big time, but his career stats are better than Alex and pretty consistent each year. His 1/2 game was worse than any of his stats suggest. There was ridiculous playcalls when he came in cold off the bench. As this entire chain of posts mentions, the coaching when he came in failed horribly and he really was a scapegoat since his throws were bad.
Anyway, since I don’t feel you can determine Carr’s skill or lack there of from 1/2 a game, I have to use his stats. Based on that, I say Yes, Carr is better than Alex. Just compare their stats. Which is a whole other thread (which is in the archives). Alex on ANY other team would have been benched LONG before his Week 7 injury.
I agree with one thing
You can’t evaluate Carr when he only played a half, and had no time to practice or prepard.
That being said, I think Alex has more upside. I think Carr is done as a starter in this league. I still think Smith has a chance to be a starter.
Ray McDonald and Frank Gore put points on the board exclusively
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
True. And I do believe Carr sucks.
I just also believe Alex sucks just as badly on this team.
On the panthers
Subtitle =
reinvigorating YOUR team since 2002.
by drodoni on Nov 23, 2010 8:52 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
That's true ...
… beats the hell out of me why they don’t just move to Wembley.
If you think about it, I’ve been to one Niners home game this season. 100 per cent record. Ninjames has been to a bunch of them – not so much. I’m starting to think he’s a bit of a bad luck charm for the team, tbh.
Proud member of the legendary David Carr thread and the famous Green Thread.
by LondonNiner on Nov 22, 2010 3:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
True, he should just give me his season tickets...
For the good of the team :p
I got nothin’.
In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.
by howtheyscored on Nov 22, 2010 3:34 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
That also counts as my suggestion, btw.
In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.
by howtheyscored on Nov 22, 2010 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
Well, here's an optimistic one.
Niners Nation. The team of the ’80s, the team of the ’10s.
by Hella Niners on Nov 22, 2010 5:36 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Whatever
You GrouG points in the prediction game picking against them all the time.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
If it’s any consolation, I don’t root for winners based on my predictions. Most of the time, I don’t even remember them.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
This baseball thing is pretty cool
I might as well automatically reward you three points every time the 49ers lose.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
I did pick them in Week 1.
BIGGEST MISTAKE OF MY INTERNET LIFE
GROUGTHINK ALERT
This baseball thing is pretty cool
I still foolishly pick them every week. It’s amazing how much of my predictions are based on favoritism.
In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.
by howtheyscored on Nov 22, 2010 5:54 PM PST up reply actions
I think it’s going to get me a fat 0 this week, though. That is, unless the Chargers score a boatload of points tonight.
In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.
by howtheyscored on Nov 22, 2010 5:56 PM PST up reply actions
A fat 0 = O?
In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.
by howtheyscored on Nov 22, 2010 5:58 PM PST up reply actions
Picking against teams you want to lose
Is handy in the NFC West. They all suck, so the only ones I usually mess up on are the 49ers.
My picking-against-the-Niners thing actually started because for a long time there was almost no one else doing it, so I figured if they lost I had a really good shot at getting points.
GAME THEORY DOWN THE STRETCH, NERDS
GROUGTHINK ALERT
This baseball thing is pretty cool
And I just assumed that it had started because of jtoj.
In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.
by howtheyscored on Nov 22, 2010 5:58 PM PST up reply actions
Walking out of the Stick yesterday my dad and I were talking about this
We both said this was the game that put to bed any defense of Mike Singletary. The fact that james is done proves just how true that is. In that sense yesterday may have been a positive …. now that we’ve come to this realization we can get on with rebuilding the franchise into the one so many of us used to love.
Agree with every word ...
I think we all admire Singletary as a man. As I said in the other thread just now, read his books. When I read Daddy’s Home At Last I almost shed a tear, as a father who sees too little of his children because of work. But being a great guy and a good a Dad and a good husband isn’t going to get the 49ers into the play-offs. For what it’s worth, if you read The Genius, you learn that Bill Walsh was a terrible husband and a terrible father. Go figure.
Another point I have made before is that all-time, legendary Hall of Fame players very, very rarely make all-time legendary Hall of Fame coaches. In any sport. The reason is simple. Patrick Willis is not currently trying to figure out what makes him a brilliant linebacker. But Jeff Ullbrich probably did spend a bit of time trying to figure out what made Patrick Willis so good, during their time together in San Francisco. Ullbrich therefore takes into his coaching career in Seattle an understanding of what makes players better; Willis just gets to play out his legendary career and then sit back and enjoy his millions. He won’t become an NFL coach – or at least, not a very good one.
Raheem Morris is an example of this last point. You think he didn’t fail to make the pros because he didn’t want to? Nope – he would spent his high school and college years desperately trying to work out in his mind why the other guys were better. Result – he can coach.
Mike’s the man. But he’s not the coach. I love him, but time to say goodbye.
Proud member of the legendary David Carr thread and the famous Green Thread.
by LondonNiner on Nov 22, 2010 3:16 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
He has to learn how to be serviceable before great
by mcwagner on Nov 22, 2010 5:25 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
kory sheets
is gonna be a great coach one day.
Alex Smith is garbage...
by redrum21225 on Nov 22, 2010 7:06 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You went throwback all the way to last season with that comment, haha
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Very well said, LondonNiner.
Both you and Ninjames have captured the feelings that I have had about Sing since his first day on the job — great human being but completely unqualified to be an NFL head coach. That does NOT mean that I wanted him to fail; to the contrary, I rooted for him and hoped like hell that he could learn enouth on the fly, with the strong help of gifted coordinators. Blind hope, I’ll admit. The probability of success was always very remote but that didn’t stop me from rooting and hoping. It just took some of us longer than others to come to the realization that it was never really going to work. I have serious doubts as to whether Sing could ever be a successful NFL HC, simply because he doesn’t have the requisite background and experience — he is a doer, not a teacher. Coaching is about being a teacher with very specific goals and processes as the guide. That simply isn’t Sing and I doubt if it ever will be.
Two (actually a lot more, but for now) questions remain:
(1) When should we “do something”?
(2) How should we approach the process of finding the RIGHT (not just any) replacement?
As for (1), I would favor waiting until the end of the season; while my guess is that the players know full well that “Sing is gone”, unlike in Dallas and Minnesota, there is no obvious QUALIFIED interim replacement on the current staff (and it scares me to think that Jed might be AGAIN temped to extend the temp into being the wrong permanent HC) and no decent prospective HC would accept such a position in mid-season, even if he was presently available. Why make a bad situation worse? Just ride it out.
As for (2), I have some very strong feeling about the subject; and, I am in the middle of developing a post on that very subject. Hope to publish later this week if time permits.
by 49erFanSince1950 on Nov 22, 2010 6:15 PM PST up reply actions
I am one of the few that was against this from the beginning.
Singletary wasn’t qualified in the slightest.
I think most of us knew that deep down inside,
Just hoped he could learn and get better. I think it’s similar to what you stated above though.
There's no replacement...
I agree that Sing needs to be gone, I appreciate what he did, I think he probably makes for a good coach the way Nolan used him – position, assistant HC, motivational speaker, general firebrand to have around…and I’ll miss that at the end of the season. But he just gets his ass kicked as an HC.
Manusky could potentially takeover but that really also elevates Mike Johnson even further since Manusky can’t have much to say about the offense. I still think Manusky’s a decent DC and given that I know the niners will try to hire an offensive guy, elevating him means you can’t demote him back down to DC, so we’d lose him.
Additionally, I actually really like a number of our position coaches and I’d be very sad to see Solari, Rathman, Brown, Sullivan, Hoener, etc leave. That might be the worst thing about getting a new coach.
It’s evident by watching the pats or the colts that having a great system trumps having household names. We need a system, we have no system.
Exactly
We pick coaches like we pick players-
Throw the “flavor of the month” against the wall and see what sticks.
Fine, coaches leave all the time. Bring in a good GM to assist Singletary and the rest of the young coaches, and at the same time have him evaluate who needs to stay and go from the inside, but at least he can continue the “master plan” (i.e., system) once we clean house, or at least trim what doesn’t work so we can keep what does.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
Ok, so there’s something in the water in San Francisco. How long has it been since the team has won a game it has needed to win? Let me recap:
2006: The 49ers were 5-5 and on the verge of getting over .500 during a meaningful part of the schedule. Three straight losses, including the first loss against a pitiful Rams team, secured the team’s vacation in January.
2007: Ok, that season was lost from the start and the team fell to its unlikely expectations of winning a divisional crown. Sound a bit like 2010?
2008: Big Monday Night victory in Arizona snatched away from the jaws of terrible coaching. Many granted a mulligan for it being Singletary’s first game as the HC during a primetime contest.
2009: In Seattle. Say no more. We all know what happened in that game.
Point is, this team has been falling flat in games it needs to win for a while now. Mike Singletary isn’t fixing that. Why does the coaching regime always get so conservative in games the team has to win?
by Andrew Davidson on Nov 22, 2010 3:20 PM PST reply actions
In the water
The only thing I’ve read about is barnacles from Chinese ships docking in the bay.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
I like it
Can someone Morally Fire Mike Singletary on the front page tomorrow? Fans deserve to have their say.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
morally fire?
What do you mean exactly?
by David Fucillo on Nov 22, 2010 4:18 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
A vote of no confidence
I’ve liked Mike since I first played a game of Tecmo Bowl, but he needs more experience. I was exstatic when York made the decision to hire him as HC. So much potential. When he sent Davis to the locker room, that was a thing of beauty. Too bad coaching still requires you to understand strategy, game planning and knowing when to loosen your grip. I don’t Sing is a loosen your grip type of guy. He wanted to do it his way, his philosophy. Which might have worked back in 2000.
At best his Niner tenure was a gamble. He had the fire; he was the sexy choice….just not the right choice. I’m sad to say that after yesterday the man has to go. If he wants to keep coaching, find a college that will have him and LEARN. I have nothing against the man, even after this season. He just isn’t right for the job and it took us some time to realize that. The same can be said for Alex Smith. Play the remainder of the season like you are still in the playoff hunt, but know that this is it.
Anyone know if Parcell’s is completely done working in football operations. He seems to have a knack for giving teams an identity/system and filling in the correct personnel.
by DuckNeck Merton on Nov 22, 2010 3:22 PM PST reply actions
I think he was best in super tecmo bowl 1991
I’ve given up on him as the 49ers coach. Hope he suceeds down the road, the 49ers need a different coach in the meantime.
Singletary in Tecmo Bowl
I used LT and Charles Haley. Everyone I lined up against was like Kwame blocking for David Carr.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
you know what I want?
to come home and check the computer w/ a big article on Yahoo that says Singletary fired and Gruden or Harbaugh new head coach..that would really lighten up my day.
No Harbaugh.
Just what we need, another flavor of the month guy with no NFL experience.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
I'm with you on no Harbaugh
He might turn out to be a good pro coach but with where we are right now we can’t risk it
What's so great about Gruden?
Why do you guys think Tampa dumped him, even after winning an SB his first year there?
Run the table, Niners!
At least he has some knowledge of how to run a professional team
by mr. instigator on Nov 22, 2010 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
He also knows how to lose the heart of the team.
I just think that Gruden’s success is a bit of an illusion. We could credit him for realizing getting Rich Gannon for the Raiders. He more or less got lucky with landing on Tampa, a team put together by Dungy.
And then there’s this http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Jon-Gruden-goes-off-on-refs-leaves-field-during?urn=nfl-270518
Run the table, Niners!
He could get lucky landing in San Fran....
i think most people feel that the team has a good amount of talent, they just need someone that can use more than one brain cell at a time…it wouldn’t be like Gruden would be coming to a team with a bunch if nobody’s
by sanfranfanmdk on Nov 22, 2010 4:02 PM PST up reply actions
i agree with this
our players are overrated in many of our minds cuz we love the franchise. the wool was pulled over our eyes with many of these players and coaches.
Alex Smith is garbage...
If Green Bay is going to lay waste to Mike Singletary
I got an idea who should QB.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
Coach Mike Singletary said none of the in-game adjustments they tried to counter what the Buccaneers were doing worked. "I don’t care who you are, the best team in the league, they’re going to have a game where somebody just has their number," he said. "Yesterday was ours.
-from CBS Rapid Reports.
Yeah Mike, but also the games against Seattle, KC, and to a lesser degree, Carolina and Philly too
Two Teams that are doing it the right way! The Blueprint
In light of how bad the division and the team is without a franchise QB
We should follow the example of these teams on how they went about fixing there franchise
First, the Falcons
They got it right from the GM to the HC. They targeted their highest priority need and drafted their Franchise QB without hesitation. This was serious work in progress but it is paying off results.
The Steelers
They have the fewest HC hired and fired in the league and 6 championships to show for it. They have a proven plan on what they want from a head coach. I know limited details about there process but based on what I see now, they have a good blueprint.
Basically what I am saying is that the owner has to decide what direction do we want this team to go. Should we try the Falcons method or the Steelers? Either way we have to get it right and bring honor back to NFC West cause they are clowing us and this is pissing me off.
>< just win the d**n game or else! Or else what? Exactly!
What did Nolan do? He drafted a franchise quarterback and got burned big time. Atlanta got to their standing by getting Michael Turner, a fresh legged vet with a good attitude, a draft pick that turned out good, head coach has had success in the NFL.
We had an identity for two decades, then lost it. A team reflects its city and weather.
by mcwagner on Nov 22, 2010 5:40 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
No, it's not a given player or a successful draft pick.
Hell, Belichick has done it repeatedly after changes in coordinators, assistant coaches, and players. It’s much more than any of these. And it’s certainly not luck. What you need is a head coach (and someone helping with the personnel side, not necessarily a GM) that has a system and is willing to and capable of teaching others how to operate within and run that system. THAT’S WHY New England, Pittsburgh, Green Bay (and lately Atlanta) have continuing success. Surely you must remember a guy named Bill Walsh — same thing.
by 49erFanSince1950 on Nov 22, 2010 7:21 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Nolan --
He didn’t have ANY offensive system; consequently he didn’t hava a f****** clue what the hell to look for in a QB — you don’t just pick some guy that somebody else thinks might turn out to be OK without any evaluation criteria (Nolan’s approach). With his approach it wouldn’t have made any difference. Fortunately for Aaron Rodgers he didn’t get drafted into this continuing mess. Unfortunately for Alex Smith he did. Sometimes I wish that I could see what Walsh could have done with Alex Smith. In six years Alex has gotten virtually NO teaching or help except for a short period with Norv Turner. Is it any wonder that we are where we are?
by 49erFanSince1950 on Nov 22, 2010 7:30 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
lmfao
dude you should have post a pic with that comment! That was a classic episode
>< just win the d**n game or else! Or else what? Exactly!
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
by bignerd on Nov 22, 2010 3:42 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Parallels:
Mike Nolan was a 2nd-generation head coach, who likely got the job partially because his dad ran the team. He promptly ran the team, and most of its potential into the ground.
He was replaced by an inspirational orator from Chicago, who didn’t have any real experience running much of anything, and who subsequently took every BAD idea from Jr. and exacerbated the situation until it’s pretty much unbearable.
Hmmmm, why does this sound familiar?
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means" - Inigo Montoya
I just disagree with one thing...
Hopefully we can make a move and still be level-headed enough to realize we need a coach with NFL head coaching experience.
I don’t buy this line, and I never have. It doesn’t make sense to me. It makes sense really insofar as there are attractive options out there right now. Gruden is a divisive choice. Cowher is well-liked. Jeff Fischer might become available.
The coaching problem with Singletary wasn’t that he didn’t have NFL head coaching experience. If anything, it was that he barely had any coaching experience of any kind.
But really, NFL head coaching experience should not be such a key point. Bill Walsh had not been an NFL head coach before the 49ers. George Seifert had not been an NFL head coach before the 49ers. Steve Mariucci had not been an NFL head coach before the 49ers. John Gruden had not been an NFL head coach before the Raiders. Bill Cowher had not been an NFL head coach before the Steelers. Jeff Fischer had not been an NFL head coach before the Titans (okay… technically, he HAD coached the Oilers before the Titans).
Great head coaches don’t always have head coaching experience, and we should never limit our pool of applicants to such a small group. We should be looking for somebody with a legitimate coaching resume, though. I honestly don’t mind going through the league’s coordinators to find the right guy. And the 49ers shouldn’t either.
In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.
I think he meant no Harbaugh
College coach who wouldn’t be familiar enough with the NFL.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
It seems like the minimum requirement should at least be experience as a coordinator. Harbaugh’s NFL experience topped out as a QB coach. I really don’t think he’d be a horrible option, to be honest, but he’s not exactly the resume guy I’m talking about.
In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.
by howtheyscored on Nov 22, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions
I don't recall Mooch's track record
He could have gone from QB coach to college coach. However, hasn’t Harbaugh been out of the NFL for awhile? Mooch was only at Cal for two years?
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
I believe Mooch never worked as a coordinator before getting the job in San Francisco. My point isn’t that those guys never work out, just that you’re really hedging your bets by going with them. I haven’t run the numbers but it seems like successful NFL coaches overwhelmingly seem to have NFL experience as coordinators. I don’t think we can afford to open the candidate pool up to all comers regardless of coaching experience, but I think it’s a big danger to limit it only to guys with the one kind. You just can’t reject qualified applicants because you’re limiting the pool unreasonably.
And, yeah, Harbaugh’s been out of the NFL for seven years, I think.
In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.
by howtheyscored on Nov 22, 2010 4:02 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not with the has to be on the offensive side of the ball either
Certainly whoever takes over the offense has a lot of work to do. I’m getting the sneaky suspicion the 49ers players only know a fraction of the techniques implemented throughout the league.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
You know, we’re agreeing a lot the last few days. This is a welcome development in my book.
In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.
by howtheyscored on Nov 22, 2010 4:10 PM PST up reply actions
What did we disagree about?
McNabb and Shaun Hill? I can’t remember much else.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
I feel like we used to disagree a lot. Definitely about Shaun Hill. I think we’ve butted heads over FO stuff, too. Lately, I’ve actually been getting pretty disenchanted with DVOA and the like, though….
In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.
by howtheyscored on Nov 22, 2010 4:14 PM PST up reply actions
Oh ya FO stuff
It’s not so much direct hate at F.O. as it is enough experience to know there are serious flaws with any magic formula system (why I butt heads with Danny too). I kind of like Aaron, he’s always questioning the results and seems willing just to throw stuff out their to test whether it works. That Bill Bradley (think that his name) is a complete horses [site decorum]. He swears the work is infallible which is the worst attitude to have in that line of work. He’s completely unaware he deals in hypothesis not answers.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
I think it’s really cool what they’re doing, but I’m beginning to feel that the actual DVOA numbers tell you very, very, very little at a glance. The whole stat is kind of based on this idea that it doesn’t actually tell you who has performed the best. It tells you who has performed the best in these situations, as long as you take this, this, and this into account. There is a LOT of translation that you have to do as a fan to figure out what information DVOA is actually giving you about a player, and I’m actually not convinced that the information it does end up giving you is all that important.
And they do a lot of stuff over there that doesn’t have those problems, but DVOA is the bread and butter. And I’m just no sure I buy it anymore.
In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.
by howtheyscored on Nov 22, 2010 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
Great ESPN Insider article on a prediction of what makes a solid NFL coach.
OC experience and failed before. You have to fail once to know where you went wrong.
We used up that option when we hired Sing
After Nolan and Sing you can’t offered to take another flyer on an unproven coach. You miss again and the franchise moves in Raider territory.
Thinking of 500 as something special is Raider territory
unfortunately we’re not far away
thats why the next hire is so critical
I still don’t buy it. If a Cowher turns out to be the best man for the job, get him. Absolutely. However, if there’s a Brian Schottenheimer or a Kyle Shanahan (excuse those names… I’m just going off the top of my head here and am fully aware that neither one has considerable experience as a coordinator) who has a resume at the NFL level and who seems like a better fit, please don’t hesitate.
In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.
by howtheyscored on Nov 22, 2010 3:57 PM PST up reply actions
Russ Grimm
Been waiting years for HC job.
Offensive side of the ball
Expertise is offensive line
Very familiar with NFC West
Not a huge price tag.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
See: Put that guy on the radar.
In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.
by howtheyscored on Nov 22, 2010 4:03 PM PST up reply actions
I think you are correct, howtheyscored
I heard on one of the NFL recap shows (after Dallas’ coach got fired), there are very few coaches with Super Bowl rings that have gone to another team and repeated the success. I think they said there was only 1 coach that had done that. So, hiring guys cause they have gotten another team to a Super Bowl may be a horrible choice.
What the hell SHOULD price tag have to do with it? The RIGHT GUY is the right guy ... go get him!
by 49erFanSince1950 on Nov 22, 2010 7:38 PM PST up reply actions
AKinferno speaks about this just above. Time and time again the guy with the highest price tag isn’t the right guy.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
But price shouldn't be an issue.
If Russ Grimm is the right guy, and he wants $10 million a year, then get him.
I don’t think he is saying that you have to have an expensive HC, just that it seems to limit who the Niners will even bother looking at.
That’s really a recipe for a proven mediocrity like Dennis Erickson though. Right now, you have Gruden (who probably won’t be so great) and Cowher (who might not be interested) out there who have a history of success in the NFL. Who else is there with that track record?
GROUGTHINK ALERT
This baseball thing is pretty cool
I am in this line
I agree with you and most everything else James had to say…
But the one thing I’m still not seeing addressed is that Jed shouldn’t hire a new head coach. I believe he needs to hire a GM, and let the GM hire the head coach. Get a guy who can build the team (look outside the organization, internal is just a wreck), and let him hire a coach to work with and execute his vision.
If Yorks screws up the org chart further by having the head coach and GM both report to him, this organization is in for a long time of not getting fixed.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Nov 22, 2010 4:13 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I am against the GM thing
How many real GM’s exist in the league? I’ve said it before but more and more Paraag Marathe’s are taking over the league.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
Considering the success of the 49ers, I’m not feeling much like celebrating the job Paraag Marathe has done with the Niners. Are you saying he should be fired we hire a new Marathe? At this point in time, I’d much rather see us run by an actual GM who oversees the operation and is the actual football man that things run up to, as opposed to various people reporting up to a team president who shouldn’t be the top dog of the football side of the house. So to speak.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
My point is not a lot franchises go to that model these days
You can point to as many coaching centric front offices aided by a number geeks as you can traditional power broker GMs (who lost favor because they couldn’t manage cap numbers and wildly gambled franchise resources prior to being shown the door).
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
I should say that I'm completely unaware of this development...
I haven’t been paying much attention, I think. So what do most organizations do regarding their reporting structure? Who’s the guy at the top who A) makes sure a common vision is carried out, and B) makes most of the decisions for the direction of the franchise?
(please don’t say team president… PLEASE!)
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
It's really varied by franchise and can change often
Just a year ago the 49ers had a GM who presided over the coach and now the coach presides over everyone but the owner. More often than not you see coaches seizing power and everyone else bending to their wishes. Mainly because coaching changes deliver results quicker.
The other issue is the financial aspects of the NFL has changed. Owning a team is no longer absent hobby to spend a little coin on, it’s the most expensive asset the owners have. It makes sense the owner is the czar of their operation, rendering the old fashioned GM a bit unnecessary.
What happened in Miami with Parcells and Holmgren in Cleveland are now the exceptions. You see much more Pete Carroll and Rex Ryan hires.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
But still
Even a lot of self made companies defer to a GM or CEO. It’s not always the Owner.
Sometimes you have to be smart enough, to know that there are better people to run your company than yourself. You are telling me that York thinks he knows more than a Parcells? I think even York is smart enough to know that he doesn’t know enough to be successful, the thing is, he doesn’t want to give up power. He is in his 20s and playing the ultimate Madden Franchise game.
What I am trying to get at is a football team affects an owners pocket book more than ever. Expecting them to sit back and defer to a GM when a bad decision on their part could cost them a lot money doesn’t sound realistic these days. 20-30 years ago a bad GM cost the owner pocket change. Not to mention 20-30 years ago GM’s treated their budget knowing it was just pocket change and a hobby to most owners.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
But still
Would you rather have a guy that made 99% of the decisions correctly because he is BETTER at it than you are and costs you 1 time a year, or yourself, that costs yourself a couple times a year because you aren’t very good at it.
Look at Snyder or Jones. They don’t mind spending the money, which is why they make all the decisions, but at the same time, they spend MUCH more than they would if they had a GM in there limiting their mistakes. A cost conscious owner such as the Yorks, really need a guy in there that will save them from themselves.
So let me understand ... what is it that you guys want? A successful team or an organization chart?
New England doesn’t have a “General Manager.” Pittsburgh doesn’t have a “General Manager.” What they do have is:
(1) A coach that knows what the hell he’s doing — has a system, teaches it in spades, and finds coordinators, coaches and players who will fit within the system;
(2) A very skilled personnel guy (or guys), who reports to the HC, who understands the system and what kinds of players that it takes to be successful in it.
Other teams are successful with the GM model … although even in those situations the HC drives the player spec issues. IMO Baalke would probably be an OK personnel guy IF he had a boss/HC who knew what the hell is was doing.
by 49erFanSince1950 on Nov 22, 2010 7:55 PM PST up reply actions
This what I was getting at
You described it in much more detail. Often powerhouse franchises are run by a good coach.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
I mean Harbaugh.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Disagree
Not I think Singletary is the answer but I do not like making moves for the sake of making moves…
1) Who do the Niners bring in? No one the Niners can bring in at this point would be better…Minnesota is a different situation…Chilly lost the team and the players…I don’t get a sense of that with the Niners…
2) What’s the point? Niners are probably not going to the playoffs…and even if they do…what’s the point…Let Singletary finish the year and start over next year
3) Niners’ problems are largely talent related…inconsistent O-line, bad secondary, front four cannot put any pressure on the QB, and no real options at QB…firing Singletary will not change any of that…
The talent does need an upgrade is some areas
but to just lay this all on lack of talent is to call most every nfl expert and idiot… most thought the talent is there to win… at least more than 3 games after 10 games of the season.
Coaching might not be the only problem but it’s definitely a problem.
I don’t lay it all on the talent…what is Singletary’s WAR? I mean will bringing in a new coach meaning that many win in the long run? I seen this episode before…actually I’ve seen it twice with Nolan then Singletary…
That's why you don't make another hire like Nolan or Sing
As you’ve said we’ve seen this story enough…. time for a stable proven coach.
Did I say this year?
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Maybe it was unclear to me...
I’m in agreement with letting Singletary go at the end of the year…not in the middle o the season…
Sigh
If I had a vote, I’d vote to let the man ride out his contract. Then, we’d have a definite make-or-break date, the front office doesn’t lose $$, and the fans can better spend their efforts looking at more constructive changes that can be made to the team until that date arrives.
Can you imagine what would happen if we kept impeaching Presidents when things started looking bleak? The country would end up looking like… well, it’d end up looking like our 2010 49ers.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
I don’t think people want Singletary fired because the team is doing poorly so much as that the team is doing poorly and he appears to be completely lost and overwhelmed in the process.
In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.
by howtheyscored on Nov 22, 2010 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
The 49ers can't afford..
to waste any more seasons under a neophyte HC who is basically clueless at this point. Keeping him around would be like keeping Mike Nolan around. The fact that Singletary is proving a worse HC than Nolan should give you cause for alarm.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
LA49er posted ride out his contract..
he is only in his second year of it. Get it now?
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
But we did keep Mike Nolan around
And we can truly say that was going nowhere.
Mike Singletary has gotten to run one draft, guys who won’t make their impact felt for at least another season.
We’re starting to see the Mike Nolan / Scot McC legacy, and that’s what we’re reacting to right now. If he’s had as much time as Mike Nolan to put every doubt to bed and we still haven’t seen any improvement, then we go ahead and can him or just don’t pick up his contract.
What are the odds of us finding a coach who can do what we want for this team in ~2 seasons before we get ancy again? Not to mention the fact that we’d me making our way through the leftovers of… 25 teams? 20 teams? With 2 – 3 more lucrative and/or glamorous positions open for a potential HC at the offseason?
No thanks. Not only would we get a second rate coach, but we’d end up with the 3rd or 4th ranked of the currently-unemployed coaches. Why don’t we just move the team to LA, while we’re at it?
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
If there’s a proven guy out there, or a guy who actually has coaching experience on any level (Singletary did not) then they are better suited to take the talent that we know we have on this roster, and win with them. Like I said in the article, Mike Singletary spent his entire life learning how to be the best linebacker who ever played. Guys like Harbaugh and all of them spent their’s learning the x’s and o’s.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
In other words ...
… why waste this talent right now? Singletary is not a head coach. He is not an NFL-level head coach.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Justin Smith, Aubrayo Franklin, Taylor Mays, Patrick Willis, Manny Lawson on defense, with Ricky Jean Francois being a maybe. Frank Gore, Michael Crabtree, Vernon Davis, Delanie Walker, Anthony Davis, Mike Iupati, Joe Staley on offense, with Troy Smith being a potential maybe. Nate Davis, too.
Like I said in the article, no quarterback could have won that game. We do not know what our quarterbacks can do because we have NOBODY on the staff that can manage a QB.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Oh, and Bowman.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Disagree
VD, Gore, Willis are the only guys I would say top notch…
Lawson, Smith and Franklin are good but not irreplaceable…
Davis and Iupati are rookies that may or may not pan out…
Staley gets hurt way way too much (not his fault but just a fact) …
Troy Smith is not the QB of the future…and Nate Davis was sitting on his couch until the niners brought him back…
Lawson has been having a great year, he’s a starter in this league. No team in the NFL has 22 super stars in their lineup. If you’re going to argue he’s not a starter …
Justin Smith is, by many stats, one of the best 3-4 DEs in the league, top five. He is top notch, and even if you don’t think so, is he not a starter? A playoff-caliber player?
Franklin I’ll give you because of inconsistencies.
Davis and Iupati were both also unanimously considered to be great picks. Iupati was the best guard we’d seen in years and Davis has the highest ceiling of any tackle this draft.
Fine, Staley gets hurt.
How do you know that about Troy Smith? That’s what I don’t get. We have a terrible coaching staff who can’t handle QBs. What if he is good?
As for Nate, that’s just silly. He’s not learning, because he’s got nobody to teach him. Every time we’ve seen him he’s been good-to-great. No reason he can’t be a “maybe.” In fact, he’s the very definition of “maybe.”
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Lawson is having a good year but how much of that is the system (3-4) v. his talent…
Smith is good but not great…
I’m not saying Iupati and Davis can’t be great in the future but at this time…it’s hard to say that their talents are being wasted…
I don’t know if T. Smith will be good or bad but again it’s a possible good..not proven good…
If Nate Davis had any talent worth believing in…he would not just be on the Niners’ practice squad
How much of that is … a defense that a good portion of successful teams in the NFL use? Really? So what you’re saying is … Manny Lawson can be a starter in most defenses around the league, but is probably not good?
Smith is good, but not great, even though he has some of the best hurry-up stats, best stats against the run, etc? Never takes plays off, but he’s just good, even in the face of stats?
Nate Davis is not a guy who can start right now… especially not with this staff. You’re just writing him off, but what do you know of him? Can you tell me anything about him? How have you judged that he is not talented?
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Just for peace sake…I will give you Lawson and Smith…but that means…
three starters on defense (one all-pro…two pro bowlers)
three starters on offense…
I do not know anything about Nate Davis except 30 NFL teams does not believe he should be on the active roster…I will take that as something…
Of course he shouldn't be.
Any system he needs to learn, he’ll need at least a year, which is why nobody could claim him.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
I think we'd be wasting it anyway
And we’d reset the excuses clock for another season-and-a-half, while we give the new guy enough time to drive the team into another ditch or find another team to lead to glory.
I don’t know if we’re cursed or what, but I just don’t see this miraculous turnaround that you do. We have youth at every position including the HC.
How about this – why don’t we bring in a proven GM to give Sing some help? Then, if after another season he doesn’t see HC potential from Sing, we have continuity in the GM position and we find ourselves a new coach?
I’m scared to death of blowing everything up to spend some more time under someone else’s vision only to find we were chasing another mirage.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
So, if we’re going to lose anyway, you just want to stay with the guy with no hope of winning? Alright. Let’s waste another season on a LINEBACKER. A damn linebacker, man! How could we have made this hire in the first place? We’re a stupid organization and a mostly-stupid fanbase and I’m right in the middle of it. He’s not a head coach.
Where, on ANY post, ANY comment did I say there would be some miraculous turnaround? I just want a guy who should be coaching at this level. Singletary should not.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
It's implied
That Singletary would waste the potential of our stars, while a new coach would not. That would mean some sort of turnaround, right? And I’d say, with this FO and this group of inexperienced players, getting this team to above .500 would be miraculous.
I’m saying, let’s give this guy every possible chance to succeed, up to and including bringing in a football-minded GM who has worked with successful coaches to help mentor this guy and see if he has what it takes.
The team won’t give us enough to decide from our vantage point, but apparently have no one in the organization who can determine whether this guy has HC potential or not, so let’s have them hire someone who can be that person.
Again, what’s one more season if we’re just going the Rams anyway?
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
Oh, I see. You don’t care if we lose. “Why does it matter? We lose with Singletary. Let’s keep losing with him”
And as far as this GM stuff is concerned, what are you even implying? McC brought in some great signings and Balke just had a consensus top-three in the NFL draft.
Look, this is pointless. You think he should stay, good for you. I think he should be gone, because I don’t think he’s a coach.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Ninjames, don't get so defensive
After reading your post, I completely agreed. I have been a Sing supporter as well, but realize all the problems. Then after working my way down this far through 100+ comments, and trying not to think emotionally, LA49er is making a lot of sense.
As has been said in several comments, Sing is liked by the players and a great motivator, but not a good coach. Maybe he needs more experience as a coach. Or maybe a demotion (which likely won’t happen… or could it?). If you hire a football minded GM, put him over Sing in the Chain of Command, he could maybe serve as HC, with Mike acting as an assistant HC. If he sees Sing has no chance of being a HC, he suggests cutting him and suggests a new coach.
If he sees potential in Sing, he helps develop him, prevents him from stifling any aspects of the team. In effect, you are demoting Sing, but he saves face, continues to motivate the team, players are happy, continuity is there. It basically puts someone in place to prevent Sing from hampering the team.
The other option, hiring a new HC, will most likely set the team back. Sure, maybe you see a spark, but you won’t know what you’ve got for at least a couple seasons. If he is failing, you start this process all over again.
I am still working on figuring out what I think would be best. I haven’t decided. I will try to come up with something tomorrow… after I look at the film.
What will make me defensive is people telling me I'm being defensive
lol I’m not. That was the wrong post to say that to, as well. Nothing defensive about it.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Nothing but love
But that is the inherent problem with internet interactions, you can only go by the words, no expressions, body language, tone. You just seemed pissed off at LA49er. If not, my bad.
GM's job isn't to babysit our HC
Nor is it to help him strategize how to beat our upcoming opponent. That’s not what a GM excels at. A good GM knows talent, and can build a team, they aren’t the ones putting in the offense, they don’t have time for that.
I don’t get why people are still giving Singletary the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t it obvious he can’t do his job? Why do we even want a coach that needs his hand held? Let’s move on.
The point is
“You gotta bring ass, to get ass”.
Without even a modicum of success, what decent HC prospect would want to come here?
Plus, maybe he handholds Sing while simultaneously determining whether or not Sing can grow into a good HC and is just raw, or if he’s really not cut out for it.
I don’t trust the Yorks to make that call, nor do I trust them to hire a good option with two better gigs open for the taking.
Maybe we take one more season with the guy, to let a GM get his hooks into the big picture vision and if he then cans Singletary, at least we have someone there who knows what we’re trying to do and can start establishing an identity, which is something we are sorely lacking.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
I think we may do another year with Sing
Just so we don’t have to pay TWO coaches during a lock out year.
But no way do we get a guy to come in here and do Sing’s job for him and show him the ropes. This isn’t Family Ties, it’s a cut throat business. If you aren’t cutting it, you are OUT.
In case you are mad at me...
I’m just trying to share my opinion, not bash you or yours, and I’ll apologize again if I came off that way.
My biggest problem is that I was one of the first to advocate throwing Nolan off the squad, and seeing where it’s gotten us…
This has less to do with Singletary support and more with trying to advocate the creation of some kind of continuous structure. We can’t keep remaking the team in the image of every coach we bring in, it’s crazy and will ensure we remain mediocre for the foreseeable future.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
I'm not, friend.
I didn’t like the way you were presenting your argument before, but it’s a misunderstanding and we’re all friends here. It’s all good.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
A continuous structure?
Of losing? Listen, sometimes it’s best to cut bait. If it’s not working, you get something that will. You don’t keep trying to paint over it. If the structure is defective, or too weak, you rebuild it. You don’t put more nails into it, or more paint on it.
Sure
But we’ve done that… thrice now? And we always seem to end up in the same place.
We need a structure, even if it a losing one, because we can’t stick with anything long enough to see if it’ll work.
I’m asking for a small one season investment to see if we have the makings of a dynasty here. If not, we’ll just be where we are now next season, which is where we’d be if the Yorks… well, if the Yorks do what the Yorks do best with their next coach.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
We have already had two years
You want a third? What has Singletary done that makes you think he can turn the corner?
Hiring Jimmy Raye because no other coach wanted to call plays for him? Firing Martz? Bringing in Carr? No QB competition for Smith? I mean seriously, what has he done, to get the benefit of the doubt so much from you?
This
Is exactly what I’m thinking.
Sing can’t handle the big picture? Bring in a GM, let’s see Sing practice his strengths while letting the GM account for some of his weaknesses. Still can’t get it? Cut bait, but leave the blueprints with the GM, who will be able to plug the new coach in to what we already have going.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
Yea, I hadn't thought about it until you mentioned it
But of all the posts I read, yours seemed most likely to create a winning team soon. And near the bottom, someone hiring Steve Young to that position. I had to Rec it. Hell, Young back on the team in any respect gets a Rec from me. QB coach, Mascot, pretty much anything short of a cheerleader.
Absolutely
If he wants anything to do with the team, and the Yorks.
Something tells me the Yorks have alot to do with why Ronnie Lott comes into Candlestick… but talks to the visiting SB champs instead of our team. Hopefully it isn’t keeping Steve Young from being more involved.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
Again..
the 49ers haven’t been to the playoffs since they fired Mooch. If you can’t identify bad coaching, than so be it. Other fans can.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
You're going to tell me what I implied?
Yeah. No. It’s not implied.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
OK
So you didn’t imply there would be a turnaround with a new coach.
So:
why waste this talent right now?
Where, on ANY post, ANY comment did I say there would be some miraculous turnaround?
If there’s a proven guy out there, or a guy who actually has coaching experience on any level (Singletary did not) then they are better suited to take the talent that we know we have on this roster, and win with them.
Ahem,
win with them.
Where, on ANY post, ANY comment did I say there would be some miraculous turnaround?
win with them.
Does that sum up your position?
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
:facepalm:
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
Sorry
That actually was being argumentative, because I just don’t know how to respond to comments, apparently.
It really doesn’t even matter, this is my opinion and he’ll lose the job anyway, so here’s to the new coach, wherever he may be.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
Yeah, it does sum up my position.
Which is not that there would be a miraculous turnaround. How is winning games a miraculous turnaround?
Read this next bit very, very closely.
Mike Singletary has shown that there is very little hope GOING FORWARD that he can win games. Therefore I would like to bring in someone else that hope to win games GOING FORWARD.
With a new guy it would be a WORK IN PROGRESS, that would lead to WINNING GAMES whereas Singletary, going forward CANNOT.
Does that spell it out for you, because I honestly hate typing like that. I did not cite a miraculous turnaround, I did not suggest that a guy would come in and immediately take us to the playoffs, you’re trying to spin this to support your arguments and I do not appreciate it.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
I apologize for taking your comments out of context.
I read “turnaround” and added “miraculous” because I do not believe it can be done in time to save the prime of our current star players, but you did indeed just imply turnaround in general and not “miraculous turnaround” like I attributed to you.
I am honestly apologizing, and not being sarcastic as I am wont to do.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
I know I shouldn't think this is funny
But I do! The extended explanations are something I commonly have to do in the blogosphere, cause tone, facial expressions, body language do not exist in text. Makes me feel I have to over explain everything I want to post.
Anyway, sorry, just as in real life, if I think it, I usually say it. Gets me in trouble. So too do I have to make comments on things I find humorous.
The problem is that Sing doesn't have the skill set ... and still wouldn't until he could spend at least 10 years learning what he needs to know.
NOBODY is going to wait that long. Sing’s NFL HC career is over.
by 49erFanSince1950 on Nov 22, 2010 8:41 PM PST up reply actions
GM
Their role isn’t to mentor the coach and help him strategize and game plan. If he can’t do that on his own, he has to be gone.
And I wouldn't ask him to
I would ask him to evaluate the coaches at their positions, not do their jobs. This will free Singletary to game plan without having to worry about contracts and administrative things.
And, if he GM has a successful coaching background, I wouldn’t mind it if he could throw the guy a bone if he notices something correctable.
It’s eliminating every excuse before going back to the well. We’ve tried everything else before, why not this? Why is this any more outlandish than letting the Yorks put in another Nolan?
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
You want Singletary to game plan?
Oh brother. You are grasping at straws. You seriously are giving him WAY too much credit.
Singletary’s game planning is why we are in this mess.
Sing is the problem. How is it that you think that a GM will help him to be a better coach?
You either have the background, experience, system and teaching ability or you don’t. NO GM can help a HC who doesn’t have the requisite skill set to succeed.
by 49erFanSince1950 on Nov 22, 2010 8:38 PM PST up reply actions
Again..
Mike Singeltary is basically Mike Nolan, part deux. The only real coaching experience he had was with Nolan, both in BAL and in SF. The difference between them is that Nolan is a DC, and can fix that side of the ball if he could. Nolan failed for a lot of reason, one of which was he had way too many responsibilities that he had no prior experience to help him do his job. The FO structure was flawed then as it is now. Really, Singletary is proving a worse HC at this moment. You don’t keep a HC like that around, especially since the Cap Purge and rebuild of 2004 forward. This team should be a playoff bound team, but it’s very a screwed up team right now, and after 8 removed from the playoffs, is not good for the Yorks going forward with Singletary.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
Why do you assume that our next HC is currently unemployed? The right guy is presently employed.
by 49erFanSince1950 on Nov 22, 2010 8:26 PM PST up reply actions
I’ll give you that, if you think Harbaugh is the guy.
However, remember that there are at least two “super bowl contenders” looking at the HC position also, not to mention any other coaching positions that might open up down the road.
If Harbaugh really is the best option of all the non-NFL coaches, we have at best a 33.3% chance of landing him, but factoring in the rest of the mess, likely much lower.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
Ride out his contract?
How long is his contract? If it’s through another season, you’re insane. Wasting the primes of players like Vernon Davis?
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Because
Jesus the new coach is going to come in on his white horse and suddenly make the team a contender in VD’s prime? Read my post above.
We wouldn’t even be in the running for the best of the unemployed, unproven coaches. Really, what makes you think a new coach would do any better in regards to wasting the prime of our stars?
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
I did read it. Read my article where I talk about Singletary NOT being a head coach. The guy is at a complete loss. There’s no fire there anymore. He’s completely dejected and he’s lost all control over everything, including his ability to form comprehensible sentences.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Same thing we've seen all season
Mike Singletary is a Rorshach painting. Everyone sees what they want in him, because no one has a good enough idea of what happens behind the scenes.
You’re basing the dejectedness off… what? His press conferences? Is he supposed to come out yee-hawing and uber-confident after a humiliating loss? He’d only face more flak for being certifiably insane.
Face it- I don’t know what happens at practice, in team meetings or the locker room, and neither do you. No one who’s not on the 49er payroll does, so we’re left dealing with conjectures.
I mean, you could be 100% right about the situation, but you could just as likely be wrong, and no one knows for sure until it’s way too late.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
I think the rumblings from the media and even the players themselves..
would paint a worse behind the scenes picture of Mike Singletary. The words “in over his head” are starting to resonate.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
Which players have said that?
The media are pretty much guessing based off his speeches, like we are. BUt if the players are saying it, it totally changes my opinions. Depending on the player anyway.
The players aren't saying those exact words..
but the recent grumblings from Alex Smith, VD, Crabs, and other players regarding the play calling and Singletary shows a bit of discontentment. Basically not outright questioning Sing, but questioning nonetheless.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
Well, everyone said that after last game
But I never heard that from anyone before last game. I think even people who don’t know anything about football had to be thinking, “what they are trying to do isn’t working, why don’t they try something different?”
I've heard grumblings all season long..
and why not? Singletary is inept, and blames everybody but himself until today when it was too obvious where the blame should lie. That’s what is most disappointing, he lack of credibility when it comes to accountability. He still took a shot at the players while accepting blame too.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
Didn't see today's conference
I will go watch it. Only heard VD say that yesterday though. Never heard anything earlier in the season.
Smith has said stuff
Vernon says stuff all the time about not attacking, etc…
You always hear things about how they could have been more prepared, etc…I think the team takes shots at Singletary a LOT. How about all the RAT stuff, and the plays being garbled, or Singletary not knowing the headset shuts off, or that you never see him with his headset on and talking into it. The guy just stands around yelling at refs.
Cmon, there is all sorts of inuendo’s about Sing’s ineptness.
Hardly "all the time"
if it’s there, like AK said, it just started.
But I think it’s just as likely you’re coloring their comments with your own bias.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
Off of what? I’ve slowly watched it get worse and worse. In the press conferences and ON THE FIELD. What are you going off about practice, team meetings and the like? You continue to jump to extremes and put words in my mouth. First I’m saying there will be a miraculous turnaround, and now you’re saying that I’m claiming to have inside knowledge? What do I have to “face?” You tell me to “face it,” and then go on and talk about stuff I didn’t even say.
I see a team that is unprepared, unmotivated, unhappy with what they’re doing out there. I see schizophrenic gameplans, nonexistent gamplans, far-too-simplistic gameplans. I’m not talking about behind closed doors, friend, I’m talking about what you and I both watched out there yesterday.
And you still have yet to address the fact that he’s not a head coach. No coordinating experience. No NFL coaching experience, save for some linebacking coaching, which was all technique. You want to stick with a guy that doesn’t work and waste a year of this team. There’s such thing as acting too fast, and such thing as waiting too long. We acted too fast in hiring him, went with the flavor of the month before anybody was available, and people WERE made available.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
I apologize
If I put words in your mouth- I’m truly trying to understand your point of view here.
You did say he was dejected, and that’s where I (wrongly) assumed you were filling in the blanks based on his demeanor with the media.
So on the field product, then. Yes, yesterday was a humiliating loss. But we all know the man doesn’t have any X’s and O’s experience, he’s said as much himself. So, he relies very heavily on his coordinators to perform the gameplanning. In fact, the:
schizophrenic gameplans, nonexistent gamplans, far-too-simplistic gameplans
What follows is entirely my response, and is not meant to characterize or quote your point of view:
The defense played well enough, considering they were on the field for far too long- this is Manusky’s area.
The offense was atrocious. This is Mike Johnson (rookie) and Troy Smith (rookie x2)’s area.
Let’s hop in a time machine and go backwards then. Let’s say we had the following:
1. An offensive minded coach…
2. …With an X’s and O’s background…
3. …And enough experience to adjust game plans on the fly based on what the opposition is giving him on Sunday.
I would then say this Head Coach’s experience would be enough to overcome these deficiencies on our team.
However, we didn’t have these things in our HC, and I doubt the following:
1. The same FO that gave us Sing and Nolan can find this coach
2. This coach is even available and willing to coach our team
Now, what we do have in our Head Coach is the ability to learn. That is to say, if we were to play the Bucs again this Sunday, I believe we would not put up the same sorry performance.
The coaches were truly outcoached, but I don’t know why we expected anything different- there was no one on the team who had seen this before, and no one who could guide any of these coaches to the right answer.
I am led to believe, from the comments of several players, that the Buccaneers behaved differently than they did on film and took away the prior knowledge necessary for an inexperienced coach and QB to form a solid gameplan against.
In short, with time, the staff we have can become that experienced team. But they have to experience it first, and they’re not always going to be able to learn on the job and perform the job well enough to win. This was one of those weeks where you were just going to learn the lessons the hard way.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
The problem is..
You can’t have coaches learn on the job. There are high priced players out there that need coaching, and when you start to lose them, then you don’t deserve your job.
Jeebus, here it is: A Head Coaches job is to win games. Period. I don’t know why you fail to understand this.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
I’m really not trying to be argumentative.
If the operational definition is that Head Coaches must win games to be effective, then yes, Mike Singletary must be fired.
At the end of the new coach’s season, if he has not won games, he must also be fired.
And on and on the cycle must go until we strike gold (we are 49ers, after all) and find a coach who can win immediately with the roster we have at that time.
I agree, I would love to find that coach. I just don’t have any faith in the FO to do so, and that is apparently just me.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
He also has to show that he can win games going forward. He has not, he’s showed complete and utter ineptitude. Even when Raheem Morris went 4-12, the Buccaneers had gameplanning and fought. This team is not fighting.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Ok, that is where we disagree.
At least, I disagreed up until yesterday’s game. I’m not gonna fight this one to the death, because now I’m honestly not sure- the team came back and fought against a decent rams team, leading me to believe they weren’t dead yet.
Then they laid down against the Bucs, which would lead me to believe they are dead…
But I thought this back at the Chiefs game, too. So, I’ll let you know after an MNF game they should be able to get “up” for to know if this is an anomaly, or truly a dejected team going forward.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
How does 3-7 strike you?
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
With all due respect to bignerd
Not as bad as it could be, given the teams we’ve lost to.
If we’re not looking at any other data, purely the 3-7 record, then yes, it’s atrocious.
However, looking at the teams we almost beat:
Saints
Falcons
Eagles
Panthers
And the teams we didn’t have a chance against:
Seahawks
Chiefs
Buccaneers
I’m feeling better about the record. Why? They were “outcoached” in the three games they lost, but I would expect a fairly ramshackle, inexperienced group of coaches to be “outcoached”. If they can just learn from their mistakes this season and correct them in time for next, there’s absolutely no reason to say they shouldn’t be 10-0 right now, nevermind 7-3 or anything in between.
We have the pieces (mostly) and we have coaches that I believe were brought in to grow into their positions. These are the growing pains, and I believe we will be much better off if we can keep our collective fingers off the trigger.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
I think we've given up on the coaches learning from their mistakes.
How many times the past two years have the 49ers tried to open up in a smash mouth style and completely fail?
Defensively, how many times have they gone to the soft zone at the end of games and see it work?
It’s been the same failures over and over again. This doesn’t even get into the QB terrified to throw the ball and return of the LOLine.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
I still don't think the defense is that bad
We have holes, but they have managed to keep some explosive teams pretty well contained. The exception being KC. SEA, half the TDs came from Offense. Yesterday, they also looked horrible, but the rest of the season, they contained some really explosive teams. But with an offense that can’t score, it doesn’t matter what the defense does, unless they shutout every team. That D has never and will never exist.
The Line wasn’t as bad as yesterday all season, but has two huge injuries, to the “glue” that held the line together. Now it isn’t even a revolving door. The door is gone. So, I don’t know if LOLine is appropriate since it implies zero skill players, more like the OwLine since the skill players are all hurt (and likely to get the QB hurt).
No the defense hasn’t been bad. But the offense has been while the coaches have failed to adjust accordingly. Cannot play bend but don’t break with one of the worst offenses in the league, you gotta attack. No choice but try to produce points and turnovers with the defense. Constantly the coaching staff focuses on assignments for games but fail to come up with an overall strategy to win. Giving up 20 points won’t work if the offense is averaging 17 points per game.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
Last season..
the same reasoning applied when it came to close losses. So right there they didn’t improve from last season.
Yet you want to give them another? Is your last name York?
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
I'm not saying nothing needs to be done
But I’m also not of the opinion that we blow everything up and start from scratch, again, where the only continuity are players ill-fitted to a new coach’s vision and the Yorks.
I think I’d prefer Singletary, but the ideal situation is bringing in a wise GM to at least assess the man from the inside and see what the problems really are. If he gives Sing the thumbs down, at least we get to keep the good and start trimming the bad, as opposed to the dynamite approach we’ve been using for the past few seasons.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
In case you are missing it..
the team is fast becoming a trainwreck. If it isn’t already. Can you blow up a trainwreck?
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
One bad loss
Is hardly a trainwreck.
I mean, I know all 7 have been bad losses, but can we at least put two “fall flat on our faces” losses back to back before declaring this a trainwreck?
Fooch brought up a great point in an earlier front page post- he wants to see how Troy responds after a shellacking like this.
Well, i want to see beleaguered Coach Singletary’s 2010 49ers respond after such a shellacking, again. If they don’t, then I’ll have a better idea of where they stand.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
They got shellacked in KC..
and if you play your worst game in week 10 of your season, one of the worst displays of 49er football post Hostler, well, if you don’t think this is a train wreck, than more power to you.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
Again
It might well be a trainwreck in the making, but it’s not over yet. If you don’t remember, plenty of folks had thrown in the towel after the KC game and the 49ers roared back to lead the entire game against the mighty Falcons (save for a boneheaded play by Clements, we might not even be having this conversation).
If we’re gonna go down the dark road of starting from scratch, I’d like to know beyond the shadow of a doubt that this thing was doomed from the start.
Otherwise, it’s still a 50-50 chance the Bucs took full advantage of our inexperienced QB and OC.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
Roaring back?..
The 49ers scored one offensive TD and one ST TD IIRC in the first quarter, and that was it. The rest was ineptitude.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
So roaring back was putting a little too much on it.
But they hung tough against an elite team, and that was before Troy Smith entered the picture and Mike Johnson started hitting his stride.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
I'm on the fence with both..
Troy Smith and Johnson. Really, I can not care less about them, unless Johnson starts combing the archives of the WCO at HQ.
BTW, I think I just got back some howie points by properly typing “I can not care less”. I may have moved up from the -5,427. Of course I probably blew it somewhere in this post.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
Chaning coaches doesn't mean changing everything
Atlanta bounced right back after the Vick / Petrino season.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
I know
But are you really ready to bet the farm when the hiring power lies with the Yorks?
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
Stop being such a fatalist
Even idiots can hire a good coach after 2-3 tries. Even so called smart owners hire idiots. Not like Eddie D. had any clue what he was hiring when hired Walsh, he essentially got lucky. Almost every owner with success just got lucky. Jerry Buss is the only owner in sports I’ve seen continually out flank his peer … I wouldn’t consider hiring Mitch Kupchak apart that success. Granted if Kupchak didn’t blackmail the Grizz into that trade.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
And again
Maybe you’re right, I don’t know. I’m just calling it like I see it from where I’m sitting, and I think our first priority should be establishing an identity that goes above and beyond coaches who will come and go.
We don’t even know who we are anymore. Stay physical, with a great defense. Fine. Bring in a GM who loves the WCO, even better.
But for the love of God, please, let’s stop throwing players against the wall to see what sticks and start building a team piece by piece to get where we want to go. That’s all I want to see.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
Teams we almost beat vs Teams we didn't have a chance against
The 49ers have lost close games due to poor coaching decisions at critical points in the game and that is why they are decided by such a small margin.
The 3 games we lost by a large margin were failures at all levels; coaching, players, game planning and general execution.
Not to totally disagree with you, that’s just my take on it.
That's a great point
And I definitely oversimplified above.
But even this last game was 7-0 at the half, and with just a slightly more seasoned QB or OC, I feel we could have at least tied the game to start the second half.
My overarching point is that I don’t believe we’re so far away that we need to burn the barn down and collect the insurance money, if you will.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
But with our coach, I don't think you ever see us take that next step
I think that’s the whole point. You assume Singletary is learning from his mistakes and can, I just don’t see it. He hasn’t fixed it yet, what makes you think he will? And no, a GM does not mentor the HC. That doesn’t happen and if its neccessary, then Singletary isn’t our and shouldn’t be our coach.
We will have to see
They did a lot well against the Falcons, and if Clements hadn’t extended the playing time of an already tired defense, he would have done enough to beat an elite-level Falcons squad.
We’ll have to see the next Seahawk and Rams games to see if he and his coaching staff can make progress with more experience.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
We also lost 4 of our first 5 games
Primarily with horrible execution. KC, 100% coaching. Each of the others can easily be shown to be because of turnovers.
LA49er
You are saying that the HC needs to learn from his mistakes. Also saying that you think Singletary can.
What about this season has shown you he can learn from his mistakes? We had two wins where we passed the ball, played agressive, and then he comes out running. He didn’t make any adjustments at halftime. I just think Singletary is SCREAMING to everyone, I DON’T MAKE ADJUSTMENTS, I DON’T LEARN FROM MY MISTAKES. Yet you keep citing the fact that he is learning and can learn from them. I think he is the most stubborn HC in the league.
But if he didn't learn
You wouldn’t have seen those two wins that came from passing the ball.
If he was truly that stubborn, Troy Smith wouldn’t have aired it out against the Rams. I doubt he would have kept the job after the London game if he truly defied Singletary’s explicit orders to not pass ever.
Isn’t it far more likely alex just never took those chances when those plays were drawn for him? On this point, even Matt Maiocco agrees with me.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
So what happened with the Bucs then?
We saw that passing worked, and then Singletary comes in and says, Troy is still making too many mistakes, taking too many chances, and we are going to have to work on that. And then Smith comes in and turns into Captain Checkdown. Who do you think was responsible for that?
Singletary thinks no matter what, that his running game should be enough to win games, and he doesn’t want us forcing the issue downfield. It’s that simple. He is outdated, and he won’t ever come around to a huck and chuck type of offense.
I share your lack of faith in the FO..
after all, they brought us in the past Erickson, Nolan, and Singletary.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
But Erickson was a guy with previous head coaching experience!
(Sorry, Ninjames. It was just a joke. I know this is not what you meant.)
In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.
by howtheyscored on Nov 22, 2010 5:10 PM PST up reply actions
LA49er -- I share your feelings.
I strongly believe that the RIGHT HC is out there. Like you, my greatest fear is that Jed (and family) don’t know how to identify the right candidates and, far more important, don’t know how to evaluate their potential — to do that effectively you have to have a vision and know specifically what you’re looking for. I see that as the biggest issue because clearly they don’t (at least haven’t in the past) have such a vision and criteria. Some will say that the Yorks will be too cheap to pay for the right guy. I don’t buy that because that kind of short-term thinking could kill any realistic possibility of selling seat licences in any new stadium. THAT is the longer-term golden goose. That is where they make the big money for an extended period AND that is how they grow the team’s asset value. To achieve it — after being responsible for the mess that has been the last eight years — they damn well do the right thing and get the right guy, whatever it takes. Just an old CFO speaking.
by 49erFanSince1950 on Nov 22, 2010 9:10 PM PST up reply actions
Thank You
I am really not trying to be obstinate, but realistic- the Yorks could can Sing and strike gold with their next next next coach….
Or, as is far more likely the case, hire another train wreck.
Then we’ll be even further down the river without a paddle- We’ll have bits of McCloughan, Nolan, Singletary… and whoever is next, and if he doesn’t work out, whoever is after that.
The point is, we can’t do anything about the past, but we can put someone in to start shaping the organization’s future without bringing it to a grinding halt and turning about-face.
My solution is this: Admit Singletary was in over his head, that he needs help, and bring in a veteran football minded GM to evaluate the coaches and players, and see what Sing can do when all he has to do is motivate. I don’t trust the Yorks to make the right decisions going forward, but I believe they’re inept enough to have fallen bass ackwards into a solution that just might work.
Then, after another season, if Sing just can’t cut it, we have a football mind to make the decision, and we get to keep the vision and bring another coach in who can make it happen without blowing up everything we’ve suffered through so far.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
So, say the new GM..
wants to pass the ball more. Obviously, Singletary is not his Head Coach.
I don’t think people actually see what’s on the field. An HC over his head. You know what? He has changed QB’s twice, last season as well as this one. He might make yet another change back to the starter.
Are you getting this? Or should I give up here?
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
OK
Then that’s fine. But then we have a GM who can see what Singletary was trying to do, and keeps what works and finds a coach who can use what we have.
But cutting Sing and hiring a new coach to come in and try to make sense of everything… it just sounds messy, especially when it’s Boy York making the final call.
And the QB changes don’t mean a whit to me, because Alex was unable to get the job done, Carr was unable to get the job done, but Troy was like a breath of fresh air.
His only weakness? The fact that he’s started 4 NFL games. Even a slightly confusing Defense is likely to leave him reeling, and that’s exactly what happened. All he needed was discipline to stick to the gameplan, but they threw different looks than he saw lined up and put enough doubt in his mind to sack him or cause him to make horrible throws.
It’s simple, and it’s genius against a rookie QB with a rookie OC and a defensive minded HC.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
If a GM sees what Singletary is trying to do...
would he have to look at the film first?
Are you getting this?
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
Yikes
I’m getting it.
But do you really believe Singletary had… no idea of what he was doing when he took the position?
I’ll be the first to call the Yorks incompetent but… really? I refuse to believe it. If it’s true, there’s no hope whatsoever as a fan of this team, and I would rather just take a step back and put the blinders on than go there.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
This was his make or break season..
he had a whole offseason with the OC of his choice, had declared his starting QB in Alex Smith, and now Raye is gone and Smith’s “leadership” has been questioned. Basically Singletary threw him under the bus.
I don’t think Jed nor Singletary knew what they were doing when he took over. The 49ers I believe under Singletary have beaten one, maybe 2 teams above .500. This was supposed to be at least a 10 win season. Nolan had lesser talent than Singletary, and went 7-9 his second year. At 3-7, with the team playing worse than last season, yeah, it’s pretty clear he isn’t cut out for the job.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
Alright, I’m with you. But he had to be following some blueprint, even if he couldn’t put the pieces together.
So you bring in a coach who can. Except, now that coach is looking at a bunch of raw material and wondering just what the last coach was thinking- this is where we need a “designer” (GM) can translate from the last “contractor” to the new one and get the project back on track, not sell everything on Craigslist and let the new contractor go to town.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
No
We need a guy that can come in, evaluate our talent, and move on from what Singletary was trying to do.
Singletary had an idea of what he wanted to do, unfortunately he had never been a co-ordinator and had no clue just how outdated and clueless he was because he had no experience. He isn’t adjusting. If anything he is getting worse. A GM doesn’t have time to come in, and fix Singletary. In fact I bet any GM worth his salt would easily come to the conclusion that Singletary HAS to go. And what good GM would even want to babysit Sing, doing the HC’s job as well as his?
It’s time to drop the GM as a mentor bit. It’s completely unrealistic to expect a GM to come in and game plan for Singletary, and do his HC job for him.
To address the money issue
I don’t think they’ve had a problem opening up the pocketbook.
I think the problem is hat this team, and this FO, is toxic. No rising star wants to come here until we’ve got a foundation, and if we can singletary, we’re back to square zero.
I mean, as far as I’m concerned, anything is worth a try, but the very definition of insanity is letting the Yorks take another crack at it…
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
This isn't college
Ok, maybe no one worth their salt wants to go to Buffalo, Jacksonville and probably the Raiders these days but guys who think they are talented aren’t waiting until Belichick retires. The franchise was much worse in ‘77 and were still able to hire Walsh. Coaches want to coach and most have egos they don’t even allow them to discern a situation.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
Those were different owners, in a different league.
I’m just getting flashbacks of the coaching search after Nolan, and the OC search after Martz…
I don’t want to can Singletary if we’re gonna get the HC version of Jimmy Raye because everyone’s waiting to hear back from Dallas and Minnesota.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
That is the way it goes
Sometimes you get stuck with Jim Zorn.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
Uh
What coaching search after Nolan? There wasn’t one. Singletary was a minority, therefore he fit the Rooney rule requirement, and we didn’t even interview anyone else, we stuck with Singletary.
As for Martz and OC search, that’s DIRECTLY reflecting Singletary’s outdated policy and his ineptitude as a coach, the same guy you want to keep and have some magical GM mentor him. Cmon.
I see where you're coming from
I do.
But at this point, I’m just as tired of the cycle of eating through Head Coaches. I want a football mind to come in and tell us Singletary’s not the guy, plain and simple.
I’m filling in the blanks just like you are, only I choose to see a victim of circumstance where you see ineptitude, but the truth is no one really knows what’s going on behind the scenes and none of us trust the decision-makers who do.
What do you suggest we do?
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
Mike Singletary is not winning football games and shows little hope that he can win football games in the future. Therefore, I am of the opinion that at the end of this football season, he should have his contract terminated.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
I would hire Mike Singletary anyday
As a “Special Motivational Consultant” (created position?!?) But to hire him as a Head Coach, I couldn’t be paid enough to do that.
Don't mind me, I'm on a roller coaster. . .
I'm on twitter now. Please follow me! www.twitter.com/@yougomango
Maybe not
I kinda feel like Tony Robbins is too practical and intelligent to associate himself with the NFL.
Don't mind me, I'm on a roller coaster. . .
I'm on twitter now. Please follow me! www.twitter.com/@yougomango
#49ers should keep Singletary because hiring an interim guy would just make the guys play harder and confuse Jed. #theyneedafreshstart
This just cracks me up. I’m sorry to say it, but I think Jed really does sound that confused sometimes. Not winning the division, not winning a SB championship to him is a failure. But he’d rather back someone who has no idea right now how to get them to that level?. . .???
Don't mind me, I'm on a roller coaster. . .
I'm on twitter now. Please follow me! www.twitter.com/@yougomango
Is GeoMak in the room?...
I never bought into Singletary as the HC for this team. I know what kind of HC, as well as what kind of FO people the 49ers really need.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
Don't think that I mean he needs to be fired right this second.
After all, I posted that bit at the bottom for a reason. I want him gone now, but at the same time, I don’t see why we shouldn’t let him stay and then sack him after the season.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
I appreciate everyone's take on this topic but...
Before I share my thoughts I need to – - – - – look at the film!
Maybe the worst loss ever!
Piss poor coaching, shoddy execution. I was ready to buy my Troy Smith jersey. I’m traveling 2000 miles to see this team play the Cardinals Monday night. Word of advice, don’t buy Niners tickets on Stub Hub in July, thinking you’re going to watch the NFC champs play. Edggy, still want the tickets?
that was a long post...
i honestly didn’t see the need to read all of it because i get the main idea. but i ask this (and maybe you addressed this):
would you outright fire him? or would you demote him to back to his original position as assistant HC?
He didn't do much as assistant HC..
other than make the occasional locker room speech that would reach deaf ears at this point.
He is done in SF. Of he should be, but we never know with anybody with the last name of York.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
You cannot demote him. I doubt that’s in his contract, but it never works out for a guy to go from such a high position to a not-so-high position. I said in the article as much, and that it was a shame because I really think he can do good things as an assistant. But he loses face with everyone within, and he can’t be taken seriously at that point. Has to be a termination, not a demotion.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Gotta clean house of the Nolan regime.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
If by Miracle we won the Super Bowl This Year (technically there is a chance)
I dont know if i could celebrate it to its full extent.
What?
Are you celebrating the Giants winning the World Series less because many people dislike Sabean and Bochy?
Following Sing's departure, I choose to delude myself that Jed and Paraag will do the right thing
They will NOT hire a coach and repeat this cycle. They may be arrogant, but they are not fools.
They now have some experience in the league and see that the Niners are utterly depleted of football people in FO. They realize that they have only recently learned to distinguish sh** from apple butter. They do not have the experience and know-how to run a football operation.
They have to WIN games next season to get the stadium built. They cannot afford another major mistake like the Nolan-Sing debacle.
They will go ahead and hire a GM who has a proven philosophy and a clear path to success. The GM will hire the coach in consultation with Jed, the CEO. Niners have a decent roster of young players, most of whom are very coach-able. It’s different from 2005 when the Niners basically had an expansion team roster.
Dude
I really hope these predictions are correct. Otherwise, we’re screwed.
LA49er basically said the same thing
He has been defending himself since.
The thing is
I don’t think the Yorks are arrogant, at least no more so than the public persona of any corporate official with any responsibility whatsoever.
I think what makes them so dangerous to the future success of this team is their unwavering desire to see this team, their investment, succeed. This causes them to act erratically, desperately even, and keep throwing pieces at the puzzle until it clicks.
It should go without saying that this is no way to run a team. They need to prove why Singletary was the correct choice for HC from the start, and they need to give him what he needs to succeed. This, in my opinion, is a veteran presence who has been there before and can help him past this “sophomore slump”. A GM, who can also work with the Owners to establish an identity for the team and pursue it, bringing in as many coaches, assistants and players as is necessary until we find the pieces to complete their vision of what a championship team is.
At least, that’s how I’d do it, if I awoke to suddenly find myself the owner of the 49ers.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
If you awoke as Owner of the 49ers..
Your last name would be York. Simply because you can’t identify poor coaching.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
What poor coaching
Singletary is the greatest coach we have ever seen in any of our lifetimes, including NinerFanSince1950, which is what I have been saying forever.
If you think he’s a bad coach, then you need to re-evaluate how you measure coaches. Bill Walsh was a bum compared to the genius of Mike Singletary.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
Let's be Kind - Rewind
Let’s face it. Singletary is a defensive type coach. Our defense are studs. If they were only on the field half of the time (the offense handled their business) we would only be allowing 14 points max a game. They are on the field way too long because of offensive line/coaching decisions. Did you see the fact that as soon as the ball was hiked Troy Smith had no time to stand in the pocket (Bucs D pushed our line into him every play). Our line has no forward push.
I bet that if we fix our line (maybe get some good veterans that our rooks can learn from) then we will be dominant now, and down the road. No more plays like 1 yard and a cloud of dust. When Troy Smith was allowed to open it up, he did and we won. We did not do that last game.
Be Kind – Rewind!
Chargers are about to obliterate the Broncos.
In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.
Chargers setting them up by letting them go straight down the field for 7
by Jaxson876 on Nov 22, 2010 5:49 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Denver is always going to score points. I just think that over a full game the Chargers will score a lot more.
In 2010, teammates Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell perfected the art of brotational hitting.
by howtheyscored on Nov 22, 2010 5:55 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sure you're right
Denver just went down the field so easily. Plus this is the No Form League.
by Jaxson876 on Nov 22, 2010 6:04 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I need Norv Turner to win out..
so that he doesn’t wind up here.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
Whew!!..
Bolts up big on DEN. Spanos, do the right thing and lock him up right now. You already have the script in hand when he loses the first game in the playoffs. Denise errr Jed can cross him off of the list if ya do.
Yours,
GroundhogDay
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
If the Broncos don't clean things up you might end up with Josh McDaniels instead
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
I don't think Denise has met him yet..
Besides, Turner would mean once more with Alex, and the continuation of Nolan era football. It’s their warm blanket.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
Well with McDaniels he’ll trade all the 49ers good players for questionable late 1st round draft picks.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
Hey, if he scares them, then we're safe.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
I really not down with a plan that trades Willis as a ploy to scare Chilo into fulfilling his talent level of being average.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
They'll wind up hiring..
Dave Wannstedt anyway.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
Now that isn't that scary..
and it may piss Jerrah off too!!
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
I don’t trust anyone in the AFC West to obliterate anyone.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
This baseball thing is pretty cool
Depends, are we strickly speaking about football games
I trust Jamarcus Russell to obliterate a happy meal.
I trust Al Davis to obliterate the competition in a Crypt Keeper look like contest.
I trust a Charger fan to run his mouth at a crowd of Raiders fans and not think he will be obliterated.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
You can trust
The Chiefs to obliterate the 9ers
"There is not a single quarterback that would have won the game yesterday for the 49ers."
Huh? Of course there is. It’s Tampa Bay. Their defense this year has been average at best. Just because they made one of the worst offenses in football look even worse doesn’t mean there’s not a handful of quarterbacks in the league who could still outscore them.
Or did you mean the game was unwinnable due to the play calling? Because I think it’s a given that the offensive strategy would have been significantly different with someone like Tom Brady leading it. Maybe you meant, “not a single quarterback on San Francisco’s roster”? I’m just trying to figure out how that sentence could make sense as anything other than hyperbole.
With that gameplan.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
I think Manning would have gotten us close
But I agree with you. That game plan would have a hard time succeeding on the pop warner level.
The 9ers
Have a whole heap of talent that they have no idea how to utilize. If you can’t use Frank Gore and Brian Westbrook to get a ground game going against the 31st ranked run defense, then they would have no idea how to get anything going for Tom Brady either. Vernon Davis for example is very likely the best tight end in the league…yet this year has done nothing because we just can’t figure out how to get him involved. Not to mention we gave up 6 sacks in one game to a team that had 8 sacks in the previous 9 games.
Don't think it's a talent issue
Obviously the 49ers are missing some key talent: QB, Pass Rusher, CB or S but plenty of coaches have managed to hold their team above water with similar talent configurations. It’s pretty effing hard to win a SB without 2 out of the 3 mentioned above if not all three. However asking to remain in playoff contention come December with Willis, Gore, VD, J. Smith and Crabtree shouldn’t be an unachievable chore.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
That is what he was saying
The talent is there, but they can’t use it properly. Rams game, good gameplan, good use of talent. Bucs game, gameplaned from stats. Didn’t compensate for broken OwLine. Didn’t recognize properly compensate when plan didn’t work.
ive always hated
how westbrook gets at most 2 touches a game. what was the point of even signing him? im happy the niners didnt keep lagarrette blount and waste him on the bench.
Fire the coach
Mike Singletary needs to be fired right now. He is an embarrassment every time he opens his mouth.The coaches in Dallas and Minnesota were let go because their time had come and gone. They were dead weight, make no doubt about it he is exactly that. It is irrelevant who takes over now. The season is done , so whoever takes over is there to play the young guys , so next years coach has a better idea of what he has.
Donald Strickland shows up on the Chargers on MNF
Ex Riordan Crusader has been around but I always liked him. Glad he’s making a game check.
by Jaxson876 on Nov 22, 2010 7:03 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Let's trade Mike Singletary for Paul Westphal and see what happens with both teams for the rest of the year.
Because at this point I think I’d have more fun with an experiment like that.
So you’re giving the Kings a coach who will never change lineup no matter what. The 49ers get the coach who will turnover the playing roster in the 2nd Qtr just see what happens. This might actually work!
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
If Don Nelson was coaching the Niners
Moran Norris would be out the door so fast! But also, Vernon and Crabtree would probably be demanding trades.
Run the table, Niners!
That kind of mirrored my impression of the game.
It looked exactly like the Bucs looked at game film of the Niners and then devised a plan to stop the Niners (what a novel idea). The Niners played like the coaching staff had no clue that another team could do something like that. It’s like the Niners coaches were completely broadsided by this entire concept.
Troy Smith especially seemed to have been unintentionally thrown under the bus here. It must have taken the Bucs staff at least 5 minutes to realize that most of Troy’s success in the Rams game came when he was flushed out of the pocket to his right and extended the play with his legs. Then it probably took them another 2 seconds to realize that keeping him from rolling to his right was a pretty good idea. My analysis here is undoubtedly simplistic. But, the point is: it didn’t seem like the Niners offensive coaching staff anticipated any of what seems should be obvious to any NFL staff.
Over
Nobody has really said this yet
But seriously, the Niners are surprised that the Bucs did something they didn’t expect? Or the Bucs game planned to stop the run and keep Smith in the pocket? I mean cmon. How are the Niners coaches surprised that the Bucs would devise a game plan to stop them.
AND HOW IS IT EVEN REMOTELY POSSIBLE, THAT THE BUCS WOULD TRY TO CONFUSE A YOUNG QB, WITH NO TRAINING CAMP, LIMITED PLAY BOOK, AND OUTDATED OFFENSE? I mean oh my god, of course they were going to try to confuse him. Why are the Niners so surprised?
Knowing it's coming
And executing are two different stories.
Why are you reacting to it like it’s surprising? The idiot-in-chief said so himself.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
I feel
The exact same way you do, Ninjames. It sucks, and I really hope the best for Mike…as long as he stays away from my 49ers from now on.
Ill asess at the end of the year. I have to wonder what the team would look like with a fulloffseason of Johnson.
You get rid of Sing, both. Coordinators go. And we won’t win next year either.
2010 in memory of the 1970 Bengals.......
Nate clements: Hey coach, had you put a better gameplan together, i wouldn't have fumbled!!
by rlott#42 on Nov 22, 2010 8:42 PM PST via mobile reply actions
So what?..
OC’s come and go. Get a offensive HC, and there ya go. Johnson ain’t that special anyway.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
That extra week he had to plan against the Rams
What could he have done better? That was a perfectly called game. Maybe he could do that all the time if he had an offseason to prep.
I agree with rlott#42, no way we win next year in an entirely new system. I completely agree with everything Ninjames said. I just also see it as putting us in restructuring mode for another couple seasons. I don’t think any potentially great coach will take the reins if he thinks he HAS to get us in the playoff immediately. Especially when the team appears so undisciplined, is lacking in a few critical positions. I just don’t see a good solution if we want to win soon. I think we will be stuck with few options, and they won’t be the best. I think, after reading 200+ comments, everyone wants us to win now. Sing improved us after one season, prevented VD from turning into TO. Kept this team believing (at least until yesterday). Getting rid of him will be an emotional blow to the players I think. I think a demotion (by placing a football minded GM above him, to micromanage, develop or determine if he has any chance of being a good HC) is the best chance we have at quick improvement.
That said, if they hire a new coach, I can understand, but i would expect us to be crappy for at least a couple more years until he can implement his scheme, have time to develop it, and hopefully, our great players will still be great (and on our team) at that time.
And what happened in TAM?..
once T Smith has more film on him, they easier for the opposition to game plan around him. The offense all season long has been mediocre, whether it’s Johnson, Raye, or Sings fingerprints on it. Why keep going down a path of failure? Johnson may be a bright young mind, or maybe just an OK OC with a bad team. But there is no real reason to trust another season of the 49ers under both of them. Because OC’s can find other opportunities, and no way is Johnson a Head Coach yet.
What you gusy are missing here is that there is no system in place, and Singeltary does not have the acumen to instill one. If things go wrong with Johnson, then what? Who will take over the offense or defense when things go bad? The 49ers have 3 wins against bad teams. Troy Smith is not a special QB. The offense is still a mish mash with no identity. Anybody who thinks this will work next season is just plain stubborn and foolish, as well as being a masochist.
This isn’t good football. Deal with it.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
I don't really disagree
But my question is, if you clean house, all new coaches…. let him install a system, adapt all our current players to it. How long do you give the new coach, with HIS system and coaches, to get us to the playoffs?
Depends
Do we look good first season? Look at Miami. One year turnaround. A LOT of teams with talent make a DRASTIC turnaround with new HC and OC.
To think that installing a new system means we won’t do well is crazy. We could EASILY get to the playoffs next year with a new HC.
If fans really believe in the talent level of this team..
than a true structure of checks and balances with a real GM or VP in the FO, to go with a proven coach sure as hell will provide better results. Gruden turned OAK around in a hurry. This team isn’t the 2004 squad. Most of these players have played with each other for a while. Look at what Pioli and Haley are doing in KC. I’d say the 49ers have a lot more talent than KC.
This team needs long term answers, and Singletary isn’t one of them. He is doing more damage for the future than building upon it, and keeping him one more season may mean having to fire him mid-season. Why risk the inevitable in the future when you can fix this team to where it should properly be structured?
Of course, it’s the Yorks. So why even have hope?
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
What is the point of keeping this OC if this HC is dictating the offense?
Why am I ready to see Singletary gone? Literally a QB fell out of the sky than passed the ball all over the field to secure a needed victory. Singletary’s reaction, can’t have that: locker room chat than back to smash mouth, ball control. Answers the question that Singletary wouldn’t know good QB play if one fell out of the sky and won him a game.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
They had a whole offseason with Jimmy Raye...
who I thought was fired, but his hat has never left.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
I was a big Singletary fan
because I wanted to BELIEVE! Most of us put our blinders on and drank the kool-aid. We forgot that motivation is only one part of a successful team. It also needs someone who’s smart in game planning each and every week. Someone who doesn’t place all the onus on skill alone. Someone who does not clip a quarterbacks wings because he’s afraid he’ll make a mistake. Watching the game this Sunday was it for me. I really have no problem with Singletary being gone tomorrow.
singletary seems delusional
whenever he says anything at a press conference i almost feel like hes not even watching the same team. i have to wonder if any of the players still actually listen to the things he says or just realize its just a bunch of nonsense that doesn’t actually mean anything
Immediately hire Steve Young
As VP or GM. Let him start evaluating staff and players and work out a list of HC prospects he thinks could best utilize and adapt what we have moving back to a West Coast offensive philosophy. Rebuild the framework of a successful organization. He’s very smart and really understands what made the Niners a successful organization. That would also buy a LOT of fan good will…
by ColoradoNiner on Nov 22, 2010 10:00 PM PST via mobile reply actions 4 recs
Best idea I have heard all night.
You sir, have been Rec’d
Have you read my Sig?...
been wearing it all season long.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
I know its not totally original
There have been various discussions mentioning Young, but he hadn’t yet been mentioned here so I wanted to reintroduce the idea now since the timing now seems particularly relevant…
by ColoradoNiner on Nov 22, 2010 10:55 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I made a small post..
about Young being part of the team to kickoff my Campaign. Now with you support, maybe we can make this happen. : )
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
As much as I love Steve Young, and as intelligent as he may be...
there is still something that just tells me it’s a bad idea for him to run a franchise. I don’t know if that’s what you were saying or not though. If he was a QB Coach or something small like that, I’d be all for it.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Of all of the ex players from the Walsh era..
I think he is the most qualified. Lott and Montana? No, not really. Young is an exceptionally bright football mind who has a ton of passion for the team. He also is very well educated, a Lawyer, and I believe has small business ventures in the Bay Area. Larry Ellison would pull this off in a heartbeat, because he knows of Young’s business acumen. I doubt he would be as bad as Matt Millen, and he is in touch with a lot of coaches and players due to his broadcasting career. He truly believes in the 49er way of football, the Bill Walsh way that the Yorks have gotten away from, and thus the team losing it’s identity. He wants to go back to that tradition, because he always talks of Steeler football, and they sticking with that identity.
When Mooch was fired, and they hired Erickson, Young was mad because in his words “they didn’t hire from the Tree!”, being the Walsh tree. Now look at where the 49ers are at. Eddie would make the pitch. Hell, he had dumbass Dwight Clark in the FO with Policy and Cerratto. Oof.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
I guess you have a point there, I just would rather bring in a guy with proven track record of success.
It’s hard to say if Young would succeed or not. I just want piece of mind is all.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Well..
Do you have faith in Jed? Just what is his track record?
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
Jed has had the team for like 2 years now
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2010 6:45 AM PST up reply actions
Exactly..
and during his time, he fired a GM, and may have to fire his chosen HC.
Just like Daddy.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
LOL
I have seen it and thought you meant VP like Biden. Not under Jed.
Well, new found respect. As I said way above, Young back on the team in any role, except cheerleader, will make me happy.
I might make..
with the powers Fooch has granted me, a Front Page post petition for kicks if it’s OK with Fooch. Maybe Jed gets the idea.
I will marry Jed York if this happens. That way I can control the team from the inside. : )
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
Maybe he can make up some shirts like the "Free Nate" ones
Steve Young for 49ers VP
I love this
Granted, he has no managerial experience but hey, Mike Singletary didn’t have any head coaching exerience prior to assuming those roles either.
Steve Young
Loves his former team/organization. He’s been very outspoken about the direction of the team and of the quarterback position for the past +/-3 years.
One can only assume he’s thought a lot about what direction he would go with this team and given a some what limited role as VP wouldn’t be like we’d be throwing him into a position that reflected the face of the franchise.
We need a GM but I don’t see how he could do a poor job of that – the guy speaks his mind and takes pride in the organization that set him up for life.
Actually his USFL contract set him up for life
He might still be getting paid on that deal. Seriously.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 22, 2010 10:40 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
still gettin paid.
he’ll be getting paid until 2027.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Young_(American_football)
Lol
If nothing else he’d be great at managing the teams money.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 22, 2010 11:03 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
You obviously didn't read the link
He took his contract in the form of an annuity. 40 Million over 40 years. Just cause the league is out of business doesn’t mean the annuity disappeared. Now after the markets collapsed he probably took a nasty hit but that’s aside from the point.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2010 6:48 AM PST up reply actions
I liike the way Young refers to the Niners as "we" in his radio shows
He identifies with the struggles of the team and feels the pain.
by Mood_Indigo on Nov 22, 2010 10:47 PM PST up reply actions
I've already spoken out against this
Seems like the biggest reach plan of them all, IMO.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
How is it a reach?
Only in it seemingly being a longshot by the Yorks.
Young has been very vocal about the 49ers history, the West Coast system and the tremendous library of knowledge the organization has in game film and notes, and he also has spoken out about many of the things that made Bill Walsh great and made the organization great. He knows his stuff, that is for sure. Can he put it together? Who knows, but I am certain he would come if asked and he’d at least understand what he was doing even if he failed…(success is never guaranteed)
by ColoradoNiner on Nov 22, 2010 11:40 PM PST up reply actions
No front office experience and he’s the one you want to put in charge to build everything else.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
EXACTLY
Everyone is bickering about the mistakes of hiring TWO first time HC’s, first time GMs, and wanting a seasoned football guy with experience, then they want to put in Young running the whole team, with no experience? Cmon guys. Let’s at least stay on track here. We want more experience, then everyone jumps on Young running the whole show? I get we all have a soft spot in our hearts for him, I get he is smart, but another inexperienced guy running the show. To pair with our inexperinced late 20 year old Owner? Sheesh.
Different roles really have different requirements
You CANNOT EVER expect someone who never played QB to be able to play the position. It’s a SKILL positions and prior experience doing just that is required.
Running an organization is a knowledge position more than a skill position, so it’s not something you must learn by having done it before. Look to the busines world. As you move up the chain (generally) you move from skill positions to knowledge positions.
As it turns out, as you move up I would also suggest prior success has less and less relation to future success when compared to lower positions.
by ColoradoNiner on Nov 23, 2010 5:49 PM PST up reply actions
Its time to take a dump truck... Fill it with money
Drive it up to Boise, park it on that blue turf and leave it there and just kidnap BSU’s HC. It will be a fair trade. I’m sick of us being scared to turn the offense loose til it’s too late.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 22, 2010 10:38 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Boise coaching tree hasn't been successful outside of Boise.
I love Boise St. and all but there master trick was knowing football talent existed on the west coast outside of LA and the Bay area.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
I don't care about their "tree" I only care about Chris Peterson. He took over as HC in 2006. From 01-05 he was their OC (he was nominated twice during that time for the Broyles award for best assistant coach)
Since 2006 he’s been named National Coach of the Year twice. (2006 For the greatest game of all-time against Oklahoma and 2009 for the upset of TCU. I can’t see how he doesn’t win it again this year if Boise wins the NC.) His record during his tenure is 59-4. He played QB at UC Davis back in the mid 80’s. And he’s coaching at the low low price of 1.6M per year. So a dump truck full of money should get his attention.
In 10 years the guy has been nominated for Assistant and Head Coach of the Year 4 times. He lets it all hang out. The Niners need that attitude after Sing’s gutless offensive approach.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2010 7:06 AM PST up reply actions
And if Mike Johnson does have talent
There is no better man in the nation to groom him on how to run an offense.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 23, 2010 7:07 AM PST up reply actions
:facepalm:
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
That response
Makes me laugh every time I see it, even though I don’t think its meaning is as obvious as you think it is.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
Singletary sucks period, he has to go. I want him as far away from San Francisco as possible. Let him go back to Chicago and coach their linebackers. His heart and sole rests there any how, thats probably why he keeps making statements, no I have no conserns abouth this and that. He probably doesn’t even care whether the niners win or lose.
by bmcrae83@yahoo.com on Nov 22, 2010 10:52 PM PST reply actions
as long as the niners hit people in da mouf
he thinks they win
What are the rules about 'niners ownership talking to potential new coaches while Singletary is still in his job?
allowed, or against the rules? meaning, most of us seem to agree firing him in midseason is probably not a productive thing to do. That said, can they reach out to a Cowher, or Gruden (not sure about him), or Billick, or whomever, and signal to them the job is theirs when the season is over?
They can reach out but it’s considered bad etiquette. In fact most potential coaching candidates would probably shy away if approached with another coach under contract, and may question even taking the job. Sorta the old you are cheating on your spouse now why would I believe you wouldn’t cheat on me. These days it’s almost impossible to reach out because every bit of information gets brought into public light.
"Coach, it came down like a hail marry"
It's not gonna happen
There is no legit coach to even take over as the interim… Sing will finish the year ,,,burn and bust
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
In the end, SIng has to go.
But let me ask the congregation this…
“What is our vision? What are we as a team?”
All the successful teams have the answers to these two questions. Atlanta and New Orleans were just the latest two to figure this out. St. Louis is on their way(they just need talent on both sides of the ball). Don’t bet against Seattle getting back on track with Carroll. Tampa took their lumps last year and are reaping the benefits this year with their young talent growing together. Be thankful for the dumpster fire that is Dallas and Minnesota, or we would be getting the full brunt of the media beatdown for massive underachievement.
Let’s look at the whole picture. We drafted two o-linemen and plugged them into the lineup from day one. Our projected starting center has not played one down all season(and the guy who’s been filling in at C should be starting at RG). Our offensive system has been a revolving door of crap since Mooch was stupidly fired. Defensively we’ve been fairly healthy…but the D has regressed so far from what it was last year. We don’t know what we want to be as a team. We have no vision.
Unfortunately, with the labor situation on a course for lockout status, it’s gonna be hard to get a “name” person. Gruden’s got one more year at ESPN, and I doubt Cowher will leave the East Coast, especially with the Carolina job open at season’s end(where he lives). There’s no guarantee that any of the underclassmen with the option to go back to school will all come out with no labor deal in sight, so that may take Luck, Peterson, and a few others that we could look at off the draft board.
Hiring staff when there could be no football is gonna be a pain in itself, because who’s really gonna be available? More than likely Garrett and Frasier will do enough to get the permanent jobs, so that’s two spots filled. Carolina is the only real for sure opening along with us, and even if Cincy opens up, nobody of note would work under the Browns, so more than likely Mike Zimmer will be promoted. There are no other spots opening up for real (unless by some miraculous fluke this Vince Young thing turns stupid and Bud Adams decides to side with VY and fire Fisher, if if that happens we had better be on the phone within the hour to get him in here, but I seriously doubt that’s gonna happen.). Honestly, until there’s a new labor deal in place, we’re kinda stuck.
'Bama fan since birth, NIners & Hawks fan since '86, Braves fan since '90
Championships: 'Bama - check. Braves - work in progress. Niners - playoff berth is hoped for. Hawks....maybe in my lifetime
Absolutely GREAT POST
I have been and am a lifelong 49er fan, and there is an eerie similarity to Singletary and Dennis Erickson in terms of week to week preparedness and the ability to adjust to what is going on around you. Erickson was a good coach, but he was over his head. Our players look stagerringly ill prepared to play 4 quarters in the NFL. We don’t have a true identity, although we tried to forge one with words.
Just handing the ball to Gore is not a gameplan. It’s not an identity. Are we a counter team, a power team, a trapping team, are we a zone team or a man team, are we a West Coast passing attack or a Vertical Passing attack? What’s our bread and butter play? Slant? Post? Dig? Power toss? Counter Cut-back?
Who are we on defense? We are running a 3-4 defense in the most passive fashion we can. We are getting no pass rush. Are we a gap control defense or a Jet Charge attacking 3-4? Do we bring multiple fronts? Why don’t we play Mays in the mold of a Polomalu? Do we bring heat from the corners? Are we a cover pressure scheme? WHO ARE WE?
These questions can be answered very easily when we look at other successful teams, and even those who are struggling. Look at the teams who win – you can easily identify who they are and what they do and how they do it. With us, we are a gaggle of inconsistency, uncertainty, conservativisim, and excuse making. “i need to look at the film” – YOU JUST WATCHED AN ENTIRE GAME! What more, “Coach” could you possibly need to see?
Why did we sign Westbrook? Why do we have Delanie Walker AND Vernon Davis? Why are our TE’s faster than our WR’s? Why doesn’t Zeigler play more? What is it that keeps Josh Morgan on the field? Where is the FB? Where is the play-action on a team with Frank Gore? How do we consistently look so inept in every phase of the game? Ted Ginn? Really??
I will never jump ship – ever. I’m a Niner for life – but CLEARLY our Owner and President needs to make a move. Walsh, Siefert, Mooch…had one thing in common…they knew the game, understood the game, and could coach the game. Motivation is great – but motivation without direction ALWAYS leads to trouble.
Always
Good work
Great article. I’m not looking forward to watching the games the rest of the season (starting with attending the MNF Cards game) and watching the incompetence of coaching and play selection.
What about Seifert for GM?
He worked with and under BW, and I doubt he has any desire to head coach anymore.
He’s 70, but… I dunno. I’m grasping at straws here.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
70 years old?
You think he is still a sharp mind? He is going to put in the hours to run a team? NO WAY.
I'm not done reading yet....but I just want to applaud this sentence
“Mike Singletary spent the entirety of his life learning how to be one of the greatest linebackers to ever play the game, do you know how many years he spent learning how to be a head coach? Maybe one”
I think this says a lot. He is in over his head, period. He isn’t and wasn’t ready to be a HC. Jed made a mistake. Let’s move past the Singletary era.
Meant to tell you
This was a very well done article. Not 100% sure I agree with you though I do understand and share some of your sentiment. But it is well presented.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Nov 25, 2010 12:38 AM PST reply actions
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