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Talented Players vs. Winners


Several weeks ago, another fan (Effage) commented on a post and mentioned that the 49ers have no "winners" on their team.  Many people took offense to that and replied that the 49ers had alot of talented players and insisted he was wrong in his observation.  The simple truth is, he was 100% right.  Thursday night's game vs. San Diego proved him to be right if there was any doubt. 

I consider Joe Montana and Tom Brady to be the best examples of "winners" in NFL history.  Neither Joe nor Tom had the strongest arm, they weren't the most mobile, neither was a first round pick with high expectations, they aren't the biggest or strongest but if you had to choose one Quarterback to go into a big game with, you would be insane not to choose Joe Montana or Tom Brady.  Why? Because with the pressure on in a big game situation, they got better. Their passes were even more accurate, their decisions even more sound, they didn't allow the pressure of the situation affect them negatively. 

In watching Thursday nights game it became very clear that  Effage was right, there are no "winners" on this football team. That game was a big a game as the 49ers have played in a long time. A victory, due to the tie-breaker situations, would have put them in the driver's seat for a playoff spot and a chance to finish the season at .500 and from the opening kick off the 49ers wet themselves on national television.  Winners don't drop passes in a crucial game that are perfectly placed in their hands as we saw with Delanie Walker. Winners don't drop interceptions that are thrown right to them like Ahmad Brooks.  Winners certainly don't shove referees and get thrown out of a crucial game against the top ranked offense in the league when your defense needs all the help it can get.  These are examples of players who allowed the pressure and the spot light to affect their performance. These are players who couldn't handle the pressure to perform when their season was on the brink.  Alex Smith was the worst of all. While his offensive line was atrocious and his receivers weren't getting open consistently, Alex just unbuckled his chin strap after every 3 and out and calmly walked back to the sidelines.  Go watch a Patriots game, there isn't a single mistake that is made without Tom Brady chewing someone's ass out and letting them know that mistakes will not be tolerated.  Steve Young would have called everyone together and gone up and down each one of their asses until something changed.  Not Alex, he was content to allow everything to fall apart around him while he looked on.

The argument here is not that the 49ers don't have talented players. In fact I believe they have some VERY talented players. Patrick Willis, Vernon Davis and Frank Gore are top 10 players at their positions.  Joe Staley, Mike Iupati, Michael Crabtree, Delanie Walker, Dashon Goldson, Justin Smith, and Nate Clements are all very talented players but none of them have ever won at this level.  Even the veteran influences on this team come from losing cultures.  Takeo Spikes (Cincy and Buffalo) has never been to the playoffs in his 13 year career.  Nate Clements (Buffalo) and Just Smith (Cincinatti) both came from perennial losers.  How can players who come from losing cultures possibly be asked to foster the attitude of winning in a young locker room? The answer is they can't and that is one major reason why this team continues to fail. The culture on this team needs to change.  Losing has been accepted for too long.  Excuses are made for losing at the highest levels.  Jed York continues to spout off that they are going to the playoffs, Singeltary continues to spout that nonsense as well when he isn't claiming he needs to "look at the tape".  When losing is accepted and rationalized through a series of excuses, your team is doomed.  This team needs a complete overhaul in this offseason.  This goes far deeper than the players' talent, this is an organizational culture that NEEDS to change NOW or it will many more years before we see another playoff game.  I just hope Jed York is smart enough to realize this.


This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.

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well written

thank you.

FREE THE TYRUSAURAS
Blindly Optimistic follower of The Iowa Hawkeyes, San Francisco 49ers, Carolina Hurricanes, and the Charlotte Bobcats.

by HAWKEYESBABY on Dec 18, 2010 8:06 AM PST reply actions  

My issue with the question has always been that

Players that win are talented in ways that are just less obvious.

I’d say the two biggest in the NFL are the ability to be consistent in what you do, and the ability to know and perform in relation to the moment.

I’d consider these talents as important or more so than classic talents.

by whistlingmountain on Dec 18, 2010 2:42 PM PST reply actions  

Side note on Alex

QBs don’t chew players out until they’ve earned it. 2nd year Tom Brady wasn’t chewing out players for mistakes. That’s a bad measure of a leader. Leaders earn it, then use it, they don’t use it in order to earn it.

Facts are, Vernon Davis needs to be the leader that chews people out. He needs to be the guy that yells and gets the players amped, demands the ball etc.

by whistlingmountain on Dec 18, 2010 2:43 PM PST reply actions  

VD hasn't exactly earned it either

only people on this team who’ve been consistently good enough by your standard are Frank Gore, Justin Smith, and Patrick Willis

by smileyman on Dec 18, 2010 4:09 PM PST up reply actions  

If the offense was better and had consistency I'd agree with you

But for the way that the offense has been, VD has earned it. He works harder than anyone else off the field, he produces the best offensive statistics, and he showed selflessness by working his ass off as a blocker when the team wasn’t throwing him the ball.

I think if he tells anyone on the offense to do something, they will stop and listen and won’t talk back. If that thought is true, then he has in fact earned the ability to do it.

I think Gore’s personality is such that he simply won’t be a guy like that, same with Justin Smith, and probably the same with Willis. It’s unfortunate that Goldson stepped back this season instead of forward. I’d say the guys with the personality on defense are Lawson, Goldson, and Clements, and they’ve all had their struggles.

I do think it’s a serious issue when all of your best players are quiet. To be a SB team, definitely need at least one on each side of the ball to be audibly intense.

by whistlingmountain on Dec 18, 2010 4:36 PM PST up reply actions  

He's not been consistently great

he had one good year which was last year.

by smileyman on Dec 18, 2010 4:50 PM PST up reply actions  

he had one good statistical year of receptions

he’s had multiple good years, in fact I’d say his year with hostler was outstanding considering what the total offensive output was.

by whistlingmountain on Dec 18, 2010 6:03 PM PST up reply actions  

You really think Vernon Davis had good years prior to last season?

265 yards in 2006
509 yards in 2007
358 yards in 2008

It wasn’t until Singletary came along that he produced as a tight end. He was widely regarded as being a bust until last season. Quite honestly every team in the league has tight ends who have the kind of production he had in his first three seasons in the league.

Last year was a banner year for him. This year has actually been pretty good for him considering the awful offensive performance of the team. He actually has an outside shot at making 1000 yards on the season (he needs 252 more yards). He’s definitely not been consistent as a player.

by smileyman on Dec 18, 2010 6:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Again, you're only measuring his "good" by receiving statistics

He was asked to block more than he was to be a receiving target.

Last year was absolutely a banner year for him, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that for most of 3 years he was asked to block on passing downs because the RT couldn’t protect.

by whistlingmountain on Dec 18, 2010 6:44 PM PST up reply actions  

OK

any TE can block. How does that make him good? We picked up an UDFA rookie to be a blocking tight end for us.

by smileyman on Dec 18, 2010 8:01 PM PST up reply actions  

For real? VD was a coaches choice pro bowl alternate based on blocking

how many other TEs have done that in the past 10 years?

Witten, Gates, Shockey, Clark, Carlson.. there’s a long line of mediocre “TE” blockers who are rarely if EVER asked to block in passing situations. VD did it, kept his head down for a long time, and earned respect from teammates and coaches.

by whistlingmountain on Dec 20, 2010 5:13 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes for real

Blocking well does not make a TE great. It’s one of the criteria for a TE but it’s only one.

by smileyman on Dec 20, 2010 5:40 PM PST up reply actions  

No

I was saying that it’s not a criteria by which to determine a top tight end. You were using it to justify Vernon Davis status as a top tight end before last season’s breakout year.

by smileyman on Dec 20, 2010 8:12 PM PST up reply actions  

"any TE can block. How does that make him good?"

Are you pretending you didn’t say this? How does this statement not equate to blocking being valueless?

If there are limitless alternatives to an object than that object has little to no value.

VD was a coache’s choice pro bowl alternate based on his blocking, obviously someone thought it was valuable. In that same season he had 50+ catches on an offense that was one of the worst offenses of all time.

by whistlingmountain on Dec 21, 2010 11:00 AM PST up reply actions  

It was Raye's spread that gave him last year's numbers..

Under Martz, he was held back to block, and even under Turner, he wouldn’t have become the big time down field blocker his is now. Good TE’s block. Great TE’s both block and catch. Complete TE’s do both exceptionally well.

Bill Walsh called Mark Bavaro one of the best TE’s he has seen, and one of the reasons why is because he could block.

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by drummer on Dec 21, 2010 12:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Yea but...

Alex was also made a captain this year, so he should certainly be the one to keep HIS offense focused. Even without that C on his chest he’s the QB and should still be doing these things. I have yet to see him make the offense his own. There have only been glimpses of control this season for him.

TEAM JUSTIN SMITH

by Steve Young on Dec 19, 2010 11:52 AM PST up reply actions  

I Want Winners! I Want People Who Want To Win!

I agree. All players in the NFL are talented for the fact that they got the chance to play in the NFL, but it is the people who understands winning and want to win. Players who are used to winning and come from winning cultures and doesn’t tolerate losing. I rather have a group of guys who play to win and play their positions the right way and do it consistently. YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!!

by Seang Finh Saephan on Dec 19, 2010 10:05 PM PST reply actions  

you can't be a winner

without winning, or even getting close to winning.

you know how fast one guy is going to get chewed up if they start barking their mouth off? Especially if the team loses You think if Alex Smith started barking out, get your F’in pass protection right, lay into that mofo, and let me pass the dang ball, that it would go over well with the O-Line? Don’t think so, ESPECIALLY if the guy is going to get benched for Troy Smith? The leadership has to be done through a series of progression by the players, ie WINNING.

by SH0ck-D on Dec 20, 2010 6:33 AM PST reply actions  

Really?

You don’t think Takeo has fostered a winning attitude in the 49er locker room?

It's been fun Coach...just not real fun. Good luck to you.

by riderless on Dec 20, 2010 11:35 AM PST reply actions  

alex smith is not a winner

only guy that I see as a winner on the team is vernon davis.

his improved his hands greatly, appears to have great desire to play and win and, is leader on the team.

Vernon Davis will help groom our new qb(hopefully)

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Dec 21, 2010 1:00 AM PST reply actions  

It’s important to have people who know how to win. It doesn’t take a lot of them – just enough that they can be an example of how to have the right work ethic, attitude and decision making tendencies that lead to winning. The decision making tendencies are probably the most important, and decision making is a sore spot for the Niners.

by indymike on Dec 21, 2010 10:17 AM PST reply actions  

Montana not mobile?

I totally agree with premise of your post talent vs winners, but to say that Montana wasn’t mobile does him a great injustice. If you have the first and second superbowl he played in taped, go back and take another look at not only how mobile he was but the outright speed he had before he was injured. Brady was never that class of athlete!

by mensa on Dec 23, 2010 12:22 PM PST reply actions  

Agreed...

Joe certainly wasn’t a statue back there by any means but my larger point was they weren’t the “most” anything. While Joe was mobile he wasn’t on the level of Steve Young, Randall Cunnigham, Michael Vick, etc. when it came to mobility. My point is that while you could say a variety of QBs had better arms, legs, height, size, speed, etc., nobody in their right mind would take anyone other than those two guys in a “must win” game. That is what is SERIOUSLY lacking on this team. I can’t name one guy that I would trust to put the team on his back in a playoff game and lead them to victory. Gore would be the closest but obviously he won’t be part of this charade of a “playoff push”

Superman wears Frank Gore pajamas

by Jayp849 on Dec 23, 2010 9:37 PM PST up reply actions  

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