SB Nation Bay Area Editor's Pick
A Plea to Jed York: The Case For Jim Harbaugh
by 49erFanSince1950 on Dec 6, 2010 3:05 PM PST
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PrintFooch's Note: Although we created a coach discussion FanPost, this is a perfect example of when it's alright to go outside of that. 49erFanSince1950 put together a well thought out and structured post discussing both the basics and nuanced details about Jim Harbaugh and his Stanford coaching staff. I've moved most of the FanPost after the jump because I wanted to get it up on the front page.
I think that we all agree the Mike Singletary, while a great human being and Hall or Fame player, simply does not have the necessary qualifications and experience to be a successful head coach in the NFL -- he and his staff lack a viable modern offensive system, do a poor job of game planning, play selection and game management, and simply haven't developed the young roster of players.
Charles Robinson at Yahoo Sports:
"The most troubling thing is the most talented players aren't developing." And I would add that, with the present coaching staff, the Niners will likely lose free agents that they don't or shouldn't want to lose.
"Maybe it's all of the QB. Or maybe the coaching staff just isn't working. I'd bet on the latter."
Eric Branch's comment about system and strategy says it all:
"San Francisco wanted to establish the run. They didn't (25th in NFL in rushing offense). They wanted to use the run to control the clock and turn their opponents to fourth-quarter mush. It didn't happen (23rd in time of possession). Finally, at the most basic level, they wanted to score points (nope, 31st is scoring) and win games (nice try ...).
It seems to me that many Niners fans have a very short-term viewpoint -- win today's game, make it to the playoffs, win the NFC West division title this year, etc. I'm certainly not opposed to those goals, but they are NOT NEARLY ENOUGH. I perceive those goals as one-shot deals; conversely, my goal is for the Niners to be among the teams that enjoy repeated, continuing, long-term success -- like New England, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Indianapolis, Philadelphia. A few teams have seen the light and hired a system-driven head coach who has turned the team's fortunes around in a short period -- New Orleans and Baltimore, as examples. Everybody else is either an up-and-down yo-yo (whose fortunes frequently depend upon injuries and/or turnover ratio) or just plain continuously bad. I want the Niners to be among the elite consistent winners. The Niners have done it before (see the Walsh/Seifert years) and it can be done again. To do so, we need to hire the right head coach this time around.
Accordingly, it is time to consider alternatives for a new head coach. Most fans and talking heads seem to agree that the Niners have been most successful in the past when they have been coached by someone with a strong background in offense and the ability to develop young quarterbacks. The candidates now most often discussed fall into two groups: (1) offensively-oriented coaches with prior NFL head coaching experience -- Holmgren, Gruden and Billick, and (2) Jim Harbaugh. Yes, there are other possibilities -- Pat Shurmur, Brian Schottenheimer, Mike Mularkey, Marty Mornhinweg, Scott Linehan, Cam Cameron, Kevin Gilbride -- but they have either no HC experience (and we all know where that leads) or their single NFL HC experience was very ... (be nice!!) lackluster.
If the Niners had a predominately veteran roster I would favor one of the candidates with prior NFL head coaching experience -- probably Holmgren or Gruden -- although IMO Holmgren no longer has the fire to TEACH that he had in Green Bay and Gruden, lacking patience, seems to be better at tweaking veteran QBs than teaching young ones. The fact of the matter is that the Niners have a young roster which needs to be taught a viable offensive system and modern strategies, tactics and techniques -- a similar situation to the state of the Niners franchise in 1978 when Bill Walsh arrived on the scene. In that light, Jim Harbaugh would seem to be the ideal candidate -- a very strong offensive background, the ability to turn programs around, and the ability to develop young players. But the rap against him is that "he doesn't have any NFL head coaching experience -- so you'd be getting a bunch of college coaches trying to work with professionals." Let's examine whether that is really the case.
If Harbaugh was hired by the Niners to be their new head coach it is certainly possible that he would, after interviewing members of the existing coaching staff, retain at least some of the present position coaches. More likely, however, he would bring much of his staff at Stanford to the Niners -- especially the coordinators. College coaches? I don't think so. Let's look at their experience:
Defensive Coordinator: Vic Fangio
24 years of NFL coaching experience --
- 1986-1994 New Orleans Saints Linebackers
- 1995-1998 Carolina Panthers Defensive Coordinator
- 1999-2001 Indianapolis Colts Defensive Coordinator
- 2002-2005 Houston Texans Defensive Coordinator
- 2006-2008 Baltimore Ravens Special Assistant to Head Coach
- 2009 Baltimore Ravens Linebackers
- 2010 Stanford University Defensive Coordinator
Offensive Coordinator: David Shaw
Father, Willie Shaw, was a football coach for 33 years, 15 years in the NFL
Played wide receiver for 4 years at Stanford; graduated in 1995; played for Denny Green (8-4) and Bill Walsh (10-3)
- 1997 Philadelphia Eagles Quality Control
- 1998-2000 Oakland Raiders Quality Control
- 2001 Oakland Raiders Quarterbacks
- 2002-2004 Baltimore Ravens Quarterbacks / Wide Receivers
- 2005 Baltimore Ravens Wide Receivers
- 2006 University of San Diego Wide Receivers / Passing Game Coordinator
- 2007-2009 Stanford University Offensive Coordinator / Wide Receivers
- 2010 Stanford University Offensive Coordinator / Running Backs
Special Teams Coordinator: Brian Polian
Father, Bill Polian, is President of the Indianapolis Colts
One brother is VP of Football Operations / GM of the Indianapolis Colts; other brother is Assistant to the Head Coach of the Minnesota Vikings
Has written book entitled "A Complete Guide to Special Teams"
3-year all-conference linebacker at John Carroll University (Division III)
- 2004 University of Central Florida Running Backs / Recruiting Coordinator
- 2005 University of Notre Dame Special Teams Coordinator / Defensive Backs
- 2006-2007 University of Notre Dame Special Teams Coordinator / Linebackers
- 2008-2009 University of Notre Dame Special Teams Coordinator
- 2010 Stanford University Special Teams Coordinator
So, it would seem that with Harbaugh you would actually get some coaches with BOTH college and NFL experience. The question, then, is what else does Harbaugh bring to the table? Let's start with his head coaching record and the ability to turn bad programs around.
Head Coaching Experience: Jim Harbaugh
University of San Diego
- 2004 / first half: 2-4
- 2004 / second half: 5-0
- 2005: 11-1
- 2006: 11-1
Stanford University
- 2006 (before Harbaugh): 1-11
- 2007: 4-8
- 2008: 5-7
- 2009: 8-5
- 2010: 11-1
Combined Record as Head Coach: 57-27 .679 (For comparison: Walsh/Seifert .681; Mariucci .594; Erickson .281; Nolan .327; Singletary .457)
And, here are some other points to consider concerning Jim Harbaugh:
1. He knows what a head coaches job is -- he was born into a football-coaching family; his father Jack was a successful head coach during a 38-year coaching career; brother John is the head coach of the Baltimore Ravens; brother-in-law Tom Crean is a collegiate head basketball coach (can you imagine the discussions that go on amongst the Harbaughs at holiday get-togethers?)
2. 3-year starter at quarterback at Michigan -- 21-3 in last two years; led nation in passing efficiency; Big-10 Player of the Year; Big-10 All-Academic Team; All-American; 3rd in Heisman voting
3. 14-year NFL careet -- 177 games and 140 starts; Pro-Bowler; AFC Player of the Year; NFL Comeback Player of the Year
4. Assistant coach at collegiate level (for his father) during last 8 years of pro career
5. Assistant coach (quarterbacks) at professional level
6. Has developed and refined a sophisticated and creative offensive football system -- a derivative of Bill Walsh's West Coast Offense
7. As a collegiate head coach he has a remarkable record of turning football programs around
8. Has demonstrated his ability to develop his coaching staffs
9. Has demonstrated his ability to develop and mentor young quarterbacks
10. Harbaugh is a winner -- and has been at every level at which he has ever participated, as a player and as a coach
11. I love his philosophy: "If you're not getting better, you're going backward."
Stanford's AD is now in the process of offering Harbaugh a contract extension. Further, Harbaugh is the #1 candidate to become the new head coach at Michigan if RichRod is fired. And, no doubt other NFL teams will give Harbaugh serious consideration (as the Jets did before choosing Ryan) as their new head coach.
The Niners have not had a viable offensive system or a competent head coach in nearly a decade. Isn't it time that we did? It seems to me that if there was ever the absolutely right guy for this team at this point in time, Harbaugh is it. Make no mistake. Jim Harbaugh will be a head coach in the National Football League ... soon. I would like it to be for the San Francisco 49ers and not somebody else. To make that happen Jed and friends should be making an aggressive run at Haubaugh, beginning RIGHT NOW!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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The pros in your post are a good sell
But are there any cons?
jacobtaylor2002
by jacobtaylor2002 on Dec 6, 2010 12:25 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Possible cons ...
I have spent quite a bit of time checking Harbaugh out. Honestly, from our viewpoint, the only possible con that I can see is the fact that he has not yet PROVEN that he can do the same thing at the professional head coaching level that he has done at the collegiate level. The same thing could have been said about Bill Walsh when he was hired by the Niners … his only prior head coaching experience had been at the high school and collegiate levels. Obviously, some pro team has to give one their first head coaching opportunity. Given everything that he has accomplished throughout his entire playing and coaching career, I certainly think that hiring Harbaugh is worth the risk.
My concern is that he is a highly desirable candidate … IMO he won’t be on the market (either for another collegiate or a pro position) for very long. IF we want him I think that we have to move fast. I say, GO FOR IT!
by 49erFanSince1950 on Dec 6, 2010 2:10 PM PST up reply actions
Thank you.
I suppose the ex-player curse that seems to have plagued Coach Singletary is what scares me. But I guess we can consider that there is sometimes outliers in the “transition of player-to-coach population.” I agree, he should be in consideration. But this time around, our future coach must go through every possible evaluation. Which includes evaluating historic record as you’ve mentioned, strategy, ability to adapt, lead a team. And probably 106 other traits not listed.
jacobtaylor2002
by jacobtaylor2002 on Dec 6, 2010 4:33 PM PST up reply actions
Another comment ...
Don’t know whether you have had an opportunity to watch Harbaugh coach at either San Diego or Stanford (I’ve had a chance to do both) but it is ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that he is the head coach, NOT an ex-player. Obviously I don’t really know, but I attribute that to the thought that from childhood his desire was to become a head football coach like his father and his brother. The playing career was a way to accumulate net worth and hone his coaching skills.
by 49erFanSince1950 on Dec 6, 2010 5:08 PM PST up reply actions
Plenty of successful HCs have been former players
Singletary is more of an exception than a rule. Most former players adapt to the way the league changes, while Singletary believes all you need to do is “hit ’em in the mouth.”
plus Sing went from position coach for just a few years to HC
no college coaching (HC) or coordinating experience.
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
Exactly, and that's our biggest failure right now....
The HC can take no accountability for the gameplanning or scheme design. Sing is essentially a figure-head for the team because we have no face of the franchise. It’s clearly illustrated when we have a nationally televised game and they say “Singletary’s 49ers vs. blah, blah, blah.” Other teams are introduced as Manning’s Colts or Rivers’ Chargers.
I see a HUGE con
being Michigan always being in the rear view mirror…unless they fire RichRod this year and Harbaugh says no to them, there will always be the possibility that hes frustrated by his lack of relative success in the pros and will keep one eye open for his dream job a la Saban or bobby Petrino.
Def. not a dealbreaker, but something to keep in mind
Nice breakdown...
I’d hope the Yorks take a serious look at him. There is an issue of power at HQ however, and even though a lot of people think all Paraag does is maintain the Cap, he is second in power to Jed, like he was with John York. Marathe has been the one constant through all of the FO turmoil most of the decade. If the 49ers hire Harbaugh, Harbaugh may need to have a guy on his side, like Nolan had with Henegan, who Nolan asked for because he didn’t really trust Marathe.
I’m on the Harbaugh bandwagon. For a lot of reasons you have illustrated, but also because to get him would mean a big price that could shake things up at HQ. I doubt Harbaugh would take any crap from the FO, and his demands would be that he may bring in his own Exec like a Bruce Allen to keep a balance of power in his favor. Which is better than what the 49ers have at this point.
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I think Marathe has done a nice job though
I think he’s smarter than people give him credit for and that he may be mired by the decisions of his bosses more than his own. I also like Baalke as head personnel guy. I think we all know who was behind Shaun Hill leaving and David Carr coming in (Sing) as well as some other questionable moves (cutting M.Rob, etc, etc.)
I know the whole power struggle thing is an issue. Still, I think the two guys I mentioned have been two of the lone bright spots in the F.O. and it’d be a shame to see them go, to me.
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
Agreed....
Sing has too much power. He’s essentially a de-facto GM along with Baalke and he can’t even coach the team. Marathe seems to be doing better now as far as handling business operations, but a lot will be determined by the next coaching hire. Sing was solely Jed’s decision because we were surpisingly winning games and it made him look like a genious. Now, it’s biting him and he has to know it needs correcting this offseason.
Sing never liked Carr
Hill was traded because the team wanted to put all it’s eggs in the Alex Smith basket.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2010 8:35 AM PST up reply actions
What does Sing know about QB's?!?
Besides, he’s always effusive to get a guy in (essentially promising Carr his play in practice could equate to playing time, Westbrook surely didn’t come here thinking he’d get 10 touches in 10 games either) only later to be evasive on discussing them and to hesitate to praise them, instead favoring the use of words like “decent” or “pretty good job”.
You can see Sing’s fingerprints all over several of the roster moves this off-season. Again, he might not be telling Baalke who to get, but he can tell him who he WONT keep since he has 53-man control.
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
I think he uses "decent" or "ok" because he doesn't know how they really did.
He can get away by saying decent job regardless of how they played. Whereas if he said great job, or poor job he is commiting and we would be able to tell he has no clue what he is doing.
You know what?
I think you’re totally right about that. I don’t know if I ever thought of it that way, but it makes sense… especially when you consider how high and low Singletary gets after wins and losses.
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Oh for sure.
If a guy throws for 200 yards and 2 TDs, you could say decent, or OK, because I’m sure he made SOME mistakes. IF he throws for 150 yards and 2 INT you could still say decent, or OK, because I’m sure he made SOME good throws or decisions. Never does he say, this guy played a great game. Maybe he has said it once or twice but don’t think so.
Nice post.
I definitely think this deserves its own post rather than posting as a comment.
The more I think about it, the more I like Harbaugh. Gruden is an ass and he’s the only other major candidate at this point. Is it the offseason yet? Sigh. Let’s fast-forward the rest of this trbl season and get to a new coach and the draft…
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2011 #3 (and counting!):
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by See Jay on Dec 6, 2010 12:39 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Very good post
I rec’d it. Hopefully others will too.
Like mentioned above, I would like to know if he has any “cons” other than “not proven in NFL” yet.
I doubt the 49ers will be able to nab him, but that would be quite the steal, wouldn’t it!
Bad news....
McDaniels was just fired in Denver….one more opening(and they have a QB to build around)
'Bama fan since birth, NIners & Hawks fan since '86, Braves fan since '90
Championships: 'Bama - check. Braves - work in progress. Niners - playoff berth is hoped for. Hawks....maybe in my lifetime
Kyle Orton (he's a pretty good starter)
'Bama fan since birth, NIners & Hawks fan since '86, Braves fan since '90
Championships: 'Bama - check. Braves - work in progress. Niners - playoff berth is hoped for. Hawks....maybe in my lifetime
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seriously amazing montages on youtube….
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- Joe Montana
lol
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 6, 2010 4:28 PM PST up reply actions
Not only that, but ...
I just read Peter King’s Monday Morning Quarterback column in Sports Illustrated — his opinion is that the smartest thing that Jerry Richardson (owner of the Carolina Panthers) could do was hire Harbaugh as his new head coach (replacing John Fox), leveraging the thought that they would draft Andrew Luck #1 and the Harbaugh / Luck relationship could continue. Aghh!!!!
by 49erFanSince1950 on Dec 6, 2010 5:14 PM PST up reply actions
who wouldn't want to take their QB they've known for a few years with them
and bring in their offense. It’s like having an on-field coach to help you install/run things.
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
Not that unfeasible
We just have to be willing to do what it takes, meaning pay the man his money and then toss away a couple draft picks and maybe a player or two to draft Luck. Of course, that could also mean that we have to tank the remaining 4 games.
Carolina has no QB
I don’t think Carolina would toss away a shot at a top QB, though. It’s possible we might be able to package a few picks to get the #1 spot, but I’m just not sure Carolina will be willing to do that. (There’s also a rumor that Harbaugh won’t be leaving Stanford, in which case we shouldn’t even bother to try to get Luck).
Good post. Agree with most points.
In my mind, Harbaugh is #1 on my coaching wish-list. Though the ownership might not want to go the first time HC route again. But I’ve convinced myself that Jed wants to make a name for himself and will make a big splash in either coaching or personnal.
Other coaches I’d consider for HC are Mike Holmgren, Marty Mornhinweg, Brian Schottenheimer, Kevin Gilbride, Jeff Fisher (Bud Adams is crazy, could happen), and a few others.
I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
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by Hoopers Judge on Dec 6, 2010 3:28 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Now, the on topic post
I don’t think Harbaugh will come here. Carolina will be the most likely destination for him(they’ll have the top pick more than likely, and the opportunity to keep Luck and Harbaugh together), and honestly, I don’t think we need to be looking at just a coach. We need a serious, football minded GM to create a direction before we look for a top level name coach or a highly thought of assistant or college coach.
'Bama fan since birth, NIners & Hawks fan since '86, Braves fan since '90
Championships: 'Bama - check. Braves - work in progress. Niners - playoff berth is hoped for. Hawks....maybe in my lifetime
GM?
Balaake (spelling?) has done a pretty good job in the short time that he’s been “GM”
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 6, 2010 4:29 PM PST up reply actions
baalke? and i agree
He has done a good job.
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by See Jay on Dec 6, 2010 4:33 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Yep
A good job so far though.
I like that he’s not above the head coach and focuses entirely on improving the team by adding new players (not by managing the coaches)
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 6, 2010 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think that's the case
Look at the teams that are coming up right now, KC and Atlanta. Both have recently went with a fresh coach/GM combo and are finding success. If our past draft is any indication, Baalke will get the players that the HC needs to be successful. Unfortunately, he bought the load that Singletary could do something with the guys that he wanted.
I don't think the talent Baalke brought in was the problem
per se…I think it’s that Sing had say over the 53 so he could cut a guy and force Baalke to replace him, tell him he wouldn’t accept this guy or that guy…so even if Baalke didn’t answer to Sing, he was limited by Sing’s ability to control the 53.
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
True, but I'm not implying the talent is the problem
The problem is that Sing said this is what I need to be successful and we’ll win if you get these guys. Now, Baalke must have realized that was a load of crap and Sing can’t win period. I’ve almost become convinced we’d still be losing games if we had a HoF QB playing at his peak. These coaches have failed, plain and simple.
HOF QB
totally agree…I was thinking that we’d probably look just as hapless as the Bears with Cutler last year even if we HAD signed McNabb or gotten Kurt Warner two years ago…the offensive system, the coaching, it’s all rubbish and sets no one up to succeed.
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
He's gone with Luck and his entire starting O-Line
He got lightning in a bottle and that team is going to FALL APART next season. He’s cashing in now.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Dec 6, 2010 4:10 PM PST up reply actions
You're exaggerating
Only 3 of the OL are seniors.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 6, 2010 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
3/5 guaranteed to leave is a lot
The underclassmen could leave too.
Personally, I think the combo of a 2012 rookie pay scale, harbaugh likely leaving for the NFL, and his o-line being dismantled are good enough reasons for Luck to enter the draft.
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by See Jay on Dec 6, 2010 4:35 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Oh, I agree
Luck is going to be drafted No.1 Overall this April.
But I’m just saying that Stanford isn’t going to become Washington State overnight.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 6, 2010 4:46 PM PST up reply actions
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5889922&campaign=rss&source=ESPNUHeadlines
Stanford’s AD thinks he’ll stay. I’m not sure how much that means right now though.
Of course the Stanford AD thinks he will stay ....
Harbaugh has been around the NFL and coaching long enough to know you have to go when your name is hot. Is the NFL calling Jeff Tedfords’s number 3 years later? He’ll make the jump some place this year either the NFL or Michigan.
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Nicely done!
49erFanSince1950,
Very well done sir! This is definitely a well thought out post and makes a strong case for hiring Harbaugh. I am on the fence no more! I suggest that everyone in the Niners Nation forward this as a tweet, Facebook, or email to the 49ers beat writers. We need to maximize the chances of Jed York seeing this.
The beat writers already know we exist
They’ll see it. After the ugly performance in GB, some might even post a link to this in hopes that they won’t have to write about the dregs of the league anymore.
Rec'd
A really well written, and well-researched post, even though I don’t necessarily agree.
However, I’d pose this question to you:
Obviously, this isn’t a black-and-white answer and I wouldn’t hold you to your wildest guess, but how long do we give a guy with no NFL experience before we need to see wins, playoff appearances, etc?
Does the answer vary depending on whether he gets control of the roster or a veteran GM is brought in?
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Here we go.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
LA49er..
has beyond all reason been trying to justify keeping Singletary through his contract. Most posters like myself have been debating this with him or her for weeks. I key this question:
bq.Obviously, this isn’t a black-and-white answer and I wouldn’t hold you to your wildest guess, but how long do we give a guy with no NFL experience before we need to see wins, playoff appearances, etc?
As just another merry go’ round that will ultimately lead to the Sing fetish.
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Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
true, but...
Isn’t it a pertinent issue given how Nolan and Singletary have done? Even if you don’t think the person who posted it has the proper motive behind his comment, I think this does raise an issue that people might feel like discussing. I think it’s safe to say many of us are now gun shy both with high pick QBs and with HC’s without NFL head coaching experience. I can see the pertinence of the point, whether or not it was for the right reasons.
by David Fucillo on Dec 6, 2010 5:10 PM PST up reply actions
Well, I don't think the change is just going to be made..
just at the HC level. Besides, both Singletary is really an lesser extension as well as final remnant of the Nolan era. BAL East, with a personnel guy whose roots are in the WCO? Two neophyte HC’s who know nothing of offense? The constant turmoil in the FO since Donahue? It goes beyond Singletary.
What the Franchise needs is to go back to their identity which is based on being an offensive team, and Singletary is just too far backward as far as modern philosophy and approach. Jeebus, his post game presser today sealed his fate. The only real modern experience Sing has had on the coaching level in from BAL, and his ancient Dogma of coaching stems from he being a player who probably dreamed of being Vince Lombardi, and coaches like it. Too bad it doesn’t work in the Modern day NFL.
You and I talked a bit about Harbaugh last week in a thread, and Since1950 has fleshed out what we wondered as far as Harbaugh’s background. Well, as a coach, it’s far deeper than Sing’s resume’. Heck, they were both teammates in CHI under DITKA. But you don’t see Harbaugh lean on that philosophy like Sing does. Harbaugh has been a coach since retiring from the NFL as a player. Sing couldn’t get a job anywhere as one until he came here, and that wasn’t be design either. I think his Alma Mater Baylor turned him down. No Owner wanted to take a shot with Sing. I bet a lot of owners such as Pat Bowlen and Al Davis would want Harbaugh over Singletary.
I’m not bagging on LA49er. It’s just that there are true clear differences between Sing and Harbaugh when it comes to experience as a coach, and just because Harbaugh isn’t a HOF QB doesn’t make him a greater risk than Sing. It’s his resume’ that makes him a better choice between them. One of them being he knows offense and how to help develop a QB, the two biggest issues that have plagued the 49ers since they canned Mooch. That, and getting away from what 49er football really is, and it isn’t rooted in BAL.
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Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
it's a moot argument
a large portion of the fan base simply does not want a new HC who hasn’t already won something in the NFL.
it’s just fear based, but it is what it is. all the well thought out logical informative posts in the world won’t change their minds.
by whistlingmountain on Dec 6, 2010 6:58 PM PST up reply actions
Does that color the result, though?
Are fans more inclined to call for pulling the ripcord a la Josh McDaniels versus a long suffering situation like we saw in Dallas under Wade?
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
Baylor actually was going to give him the job.
I think Sing turned it down.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2010 8:39 AM PST up reply actions
Look man
I’m not gonna change your mind, and you’re not going to change mine. I’ve made my case, and the Yorks are gonna do whatever they’re gonna do anyway, so it almost isn’t even worth typing.
This was a sincere question, and it’s one I wish we would have asked prior to Singletary. Given that this is nowhere near a sure thing, and we don’t even know if there’ll be football next season, it’s absolutely premature and would be anyone’s guess, but that’s why I framed it the way I did.
I’m not gonna print this out and frame it next to my Joe Montana poster just in case Harbaugh doesn’t work out so I can rub it in your or anyone else’s face- losing sucks, and I’d take Bellicheat if it meant we’d get back to winning (blech).
My overarching concern is that Bill Walsh wouldn’t have had a chance after the 2 – 14 season, and I’m asking what a successful Harbaugh start would look like- no more, no less.
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
Well..
for one thing, there would be a true cohesive vision on offense. Being that this team isn’t that bad at all, in fact, pretyy darn good with a lot of potential, Harbaugh would have a lot to work with once he has a couple of QB’s that he likes on the roster. He uses TE’s a lot, and the 49ers have loaded up there. What the 49ers need is another WR that is better than Morgan.
On defense, well, he can either go 3-4 or 4-3. There is some talent there as well. This team isn’t that far away from being a consistent competitive team. They just lack identity, and Singletary with all his Dogma hasn’t provided in that area.
If they retained Sing for one more season, then I give up on this Franchise. After over 30 years of being a fan, I gave the Yorks more of a chance than an HC. They failed every season.
The 2010 SF 49ers: It's FAIL, done better
Official Sponsor of Steve Young for Vice President of the 49ers in 2011
Well, we're waiting.. (for David Carr to start by week 7) - Old Sig
by drummer on Dec 6, 2010 9:44 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'll stick my neck out ...
IF the Niners hire Harbaugh as head coach, allow him to bring in his own coordinators (probably the guys from Stanford), and have Baalke and Harbaugh work together (jointly defining priority and Baalke heading the scouting / finding activity) to acquire players, I believe that the Niners could win the NFC West in 2011. Two caveats: (1) Harbaugh makes the QB selection call (Alex or Troy Smith or a free agent), and (2) Jed is willing to foot the bill to acquire selected key free agents.
Basically, I don’t think that Harbaugh’s ability to diagnose problems and implement fixes to turn programs around is limited to the collegiate level. He may be able to do it even faster at the pro level because he doesn’t have to do it exclusively through recruiting.
by 49erFanSince1950 on Dec 6, 2010 5:30 PM PST up reply actions
OK
I appreciate the wild guess.
How about worst case scenario- how long of a leash does Harbaugh have (again, assuming all else is equal- he gets the support of the FO, has enough say to fix the problems, etc)?
Do we drag out the pitchforks… two seasons in? Three? How long would even an average coach need to coach out the disasters that have been the Nolan/McC/Singletary eras?
I guess my question boils down to whether we’re looking at a full rebuilding periodwith Harbaugh vs another coaching prospect, or like you mentioned in best case scenario, NFC West champs in 2011?
49er 'til I die! (if they don't kill me first)
Given the current roster and assuming that we don't lose any significant free agents ...
I just don’t think that it will take that long. The problems are (1) poor organization, (2) archaic offensive philosophy and playbook, (3) poor coaching — planning, strategy, tactics, and TEACHING, and (4) some personnel needs — QB, CB, DL. Most of that is addressable by getting the right coaching staff (with modern offensive system, strategy, tactics) into place. Most of the personnel issues can be addressed through the draft or through free agency (assuming that Jed is willing to spend the money). Fixing those issues shouldn’t take that long. Probably the biggest issue is finding the right QBOTF. If we gave Erickson, Nolan and Singletary more than two years each, certainly Harbaugh would deserve a three-year try. But, again, given his past turnaround track record, I don’t believe that it would take that long.
by 49erFanSince1950 on Dec 6, 2010 9:46 PM PST up reply actions
Simple answer
Three years to be a fairly significant threat in the playoffs. This division is a disaster right now despite the upswing of St. Louis and Seattle. We should realistically win the division with a quality coaching staff and a decent QB (Orton is my vote).
I’d bet that if things go well, we’d make the playoffs within his first two years, or possibly even his first as HC.
I, too, would love if Harbaugh was brought in to Coach this team next season...
for all the reasons you mentioned in your post. I think he’s a superstar at the NFL Level waiting to happen, and the Niners should get in on this.
However, I suspect the odds are against us. First, I really do think he’ll stay at Stanford, especially of Luck stays (and he very well might). Stanford appears to be willing to pay him to stick around. And if he doesn’t stick at Stanford, I’d have to think Michigan might be a very appealing job to him…his alma mader, the recruiting base, etc. I suspect he’ll stick in college…at least for another year (if he stays at Stanford…longer if he jumps to Michigan).
As far as NFL prospects go…there’s loads of teams out there that will most likely be lining up for his services, and willing to pay handsomly for it. The point from ronniemac03 up there about Carolina is a good one. The ability to stay paired with Luck could sway him one way or the other (I’d kill to trade up for Luck…but it’ll never happen). And the Niners, I’m just not convinced they want to get another first time NFL Head Coach. No facts to back it up, just a feeling.
Anyways, signing Harbaugh would be a huge coup for this franchise, and would shake things up quite a bit…and could very easily turn this franchise around. But it’s definately not a given…and not the “safe choice” that some may clammor for.
Well done on the post, though. Very interesting read.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
The Jody Shelley of FearTheFin's Mod Squad.
Tweet Tweet.
Uh, the "safe choice" hasn't really EVER worked for the Niners -- success only came with risk.
by 49erFanSince1950 on Dec 6, 2010 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
Same argument as for many others ... he had never been an NFL head coach before.
Given the circumstances, I would call him a semi-safe choice — no prior head coaching experence at any level, but 3 years as Niners’ DB coach and then 6 years as Niners’ DC. Truthfully, the Niners had no other possible choice — it was Seifert or go outside the organization. He worked out because Walsh left him a system and a roster; so the Niners lucked out. Seifert didn’t fare real well as HC of the Carolina Panthers where he didn’t inherit something to work with.
by 49erFanSince1950 on Dec 6, 2010 10:03 PM PST up reply actions
People like to point to Seifert
and say he inherited a great team—which is true for his 1st Superbowl, but the team was drastically different by the ’95 Superbowl
josh mcdaniels
got fired today. i’m almost sure sing is next if he loses to seattle.
Alex Smith is garbage...
Harbaugh Yes!
Yes, let’s do that. And get a Top QB in the draft. I hope Joe Montana’s son comes to us, we need the west coast offense to return to it’s source. Other teams use it against us and win. We pound and hit them in the mouth? No, we get hit in the mouth, and then lose the game.
Good post
The only question I have- would he keep the 3-4 defense? P. WIllis is one of the best players in the NFL right now and I don’t really want to see him trying to adjust to a whole new system.
Pat can play in the 4-3
My concern is that the 49ers only have 3 defensive linemen that can play effectively in the 4-3:
Justin Smith, Travis LaBoy, Ray McDonald.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 6, 2010 4:32 PM PST up reply actions
Sopoaga, Haralson, and Franklin can all play in the 4-3
I don’t think LaBoy can play in the 4-3 anymore.
I think the larger issue with a switch to 4-3 ( which I’m constantly thinking about ) is that they would absolutely need either Bowman or McKillop to work out.
by whistlingmountain on Dec 6, 2010 7:11 PM PST up reply actions
Bowman is gonna work out
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Absolutely not
Sopoaga would be even more horrible in the 4-3 than he is now in the 3-4.
He can’t get a push in passing situations, and he’s not going to stop anyone against the run.
Haralson is terrible against the run, teams would just run all over him…he’s not a defensive lineman.
Franklin would fit well in the 4-3 but I doubt he resigns.
As for the two LBs you mentioned: Bowman would be excellent in the 4-3 but I doubt we have the coaches to help him develop.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2010 8:41 AM PST up reply actions
well this would be after a coaching change...so we'd have better positional coaches
I think Haralson could play 4-3 DE but rather go with Brooks, LaBoy, possibly Lawson because they can rush the passer fairly well and also contain the edge. As far as DT’s go RJF, McDonald, J.Smith could but might be better at DE. We’re DT poor if Franklin leaves (he will, we can’t re-sign until after FA period now).
We’d have PW in the middle of the LB’s and then Bowman on one side and ? on the other. Might have to get a FA LB if Spikes doesn’t come back. The rest of our LB’s are young guys who we just converted to 3-4 LB’s.
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
We would have starters and would be pretty good (see below)
We could supplement with decent FAs to fill in back up roles at DT and LB. I don’t think our front 7 would take as big a hit as some people think.
Spikes can't play OLB in the 4-3
Way too much room for an old guy like him to cover.
I just don’t think Haralson can be a defensive lineman again…he’s way too soft.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2010 8:58 AM PST up reply actions
I think he probably meant Spikes to back up Willis
Though that doesn’t matter unless something catastrophic happens and P. Willy gets hurt. I think McKillop, if he recovers, could move outside and be taught to back up Bowman. Scary situation having two second year players at that spot, but we’d be alright.
I doubt we'd be alright
Would need to pick up another vet (FA/Trade) to play OLB.
And we haven’t even touched on the secondary…since the DL would be so weak the DBs would have to cover better.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2010 9:04 AM PST up reply actions
like we get any pass rush right now anyways...
we need better coachign in the secondary regardless and better, younger, faster CB’s too
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
Yep...
I’m looking at the draft and FA for the secondary. That will happen regardless of what scheme we run next season.
I’m only taking into consideration the front 7 and who we have right now in regards to changing the scheme. FAs will be brought in to supplement the roster, but we’re closer to having a legit 4-3 than a 3-4, personnel-wise. We need a 3-4 DE, NT and pass rushing OLB to be a successful 3-4 front. For 4-3, we’d really only need a true pass rusher opposite Smith on the DL and some FAs for depth.
I think we need at least two 3-tech's
and a 7-tech, keep Brooks and LaBoy…I think they are natural 7-techs though unspectacular…use them for depth/rotation.
I would like another vet for OLB in a 4-3 and also either another or the same vet to back up Mike.
DB’s…you need 4 no matter what scheme you run.
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
Either way...
our defense is in disarray no matter what we do. We were highly overrated coming into this year and we won’t be getting better without adding talent at multiple positions.
I'd like to keep the 3-4 honestly
but I’m remaining positive in the core group in case we are forced to make a change to the 4-3
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
Nolan was a successful 3-4 coordinator
and he couldn’t make it happen here. He did have too many things to do at the time, but I believe our defense has been consistently overrated since then. I don’t really care what the scheme is, but for everyone clamoring for a return to the WCO, was our defense not a 4-3 back when we were successful? Maybe it’s time to look into what scheme would be easier to find talent for.
3-4 is harder to build because there aren’t a lot of those schemes in college. Guys have to be groomed where as they can generally make an immediate impact if they walk into a 4-3. I think we could easily get a more consistent pass rush if we went to a 4-3 and drafted a guy in the 3rd round. For 3-4, it seems like mostly you only hit on 1st round pass rushers.
by 9thevolution on Dec 7, 2010 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
Sopoaga is very good against the run, he always has been
He wouldn’t be on the field in passing situations, you’d rotate in another lineman, or move Smith inside.
“Haralson is terrible against the run, teams would just run all over him…he’s not a defensive lineman.”
I think you have incorrect perceptions of what defensive ends are in the league. Look around at other teams, I get the feeling you’d say most of them can’t defend the run and would get run all over. It’s part of the 4-3.
Haralson is much better at the point of attack than Lawson, which is a necessary with your hand in the ground.
I just don’t think Bowman is any good, so much of LB is awareness and he seems to have none. McKillop seems to have it, but doesn’t have the athletic ability.
by whistlingmountain on Dec 7, 2010 9:33 AM PST up reply actions
Bowman had great AWR at PSU. He scraped and made plays routinely
playing TED in the 3-4 is WORLDS different than 4-3 OLB. He’s young…he’s got good instincts.
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
It's not scheme that I'm talking about
I’m talking about him diving at players 5 yards short of the first down and missing, and giving up 7 yards. Repeatedly. Just making awful awful decisions. I don’t see how he fixes that anytime soon.
by whistlingmountain on Dec 7, 2010 10:00 AM PST up reply actions
It's called a good coaching staff
Which it’s evident we do not have. Experience would help too but he’s not getting that because Sing still believes he can retain his job by playing veterans. Love Spikes, but it’s time he starts seeing less playing time again in favor of getting young guys experience.
by 9thevolution on Dec 7, 2010 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
Like Tre said
You have to have watched him at PSU to understand how good he can really be.
It’s obvious he’s overwhelmed because the coaches are filling his head with [site decorum]
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2010 10:03 PM PST up reply actions
No matter what you put in a player's head
It’s still up to him to break down and tackle a guy when he’s 6 yards short of a 1st on 3rd down. Diving at a guy and giving up 7 more yards won’t be fixed by a new coaching staff. He’ll have to fix that on his own if he can.
by whistlingmountain on Dec 8, 2010 6:57 AM PST up reply actions
Really?
Cause here I thought you could be taught to not dive at the ball carrier and to wrap him up properly when you have the opportunity. It’s a little ridiculous to insinuate that he can’t be taught better technique in getting to the ball and wrapping a guy up.
I'da benched Dashon a long time ago
you wanna missile tackle, arm tackle, go high? Sit yer ass down boy. Sing made that whole “rather play with 10” speech yet he’s letting the popular players get away with murder and no repercussions
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
Absolutely right
Goldson isn’t even good. He amassed stats last year because he was playing next to Lewis and Roman who were clearly declining. Now that he’s playing next to more athletically gifted players, he’s being exposed. We should be starting Smith and Mays, and should have been since week 4.
seriously
had I known we’d be getting burned by a safety all year anyways I’d have rather let Mays get his licks and learn something than the bum Goldson who’s gonna walk for the cash anyways
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
I hope he walks for cash...
since after this season, it won’t be that much. He’s a bum and has no place on this team anymore as far as I’m concerned. I’d be fine next year going into camp with Smith and Mays starting, Taylor and Maragos as backups and maybe bring in a late round pick or a few vets to compete for a spot. The secondary is a joke and seriously needs to be addressed. I just hope they make a play for Joseph in FA. I’d take Cromartie but he’d be a headache for the other guys most likely.
not opposed to drafting a Safety relatively early
if there is a ball-hawk type safety like Earl Thomas (a young Ed Reed-lite maybe) to pair with the more physical Mays. Reggie can handle it for now with better coaching but Mays belongs as a strong safety who helps in the run game, screens, and covers for missed tackles by others.
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
that is to say
Mays doesn’t need his primary focus to be coverage right now. Maybe he’ll develop into a cover safety but right now play to his strengths, not try to shoe-horn him into Ed Reed
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
Are there any safeties worth that?
Last year was a good year for safeties, but since we drafted Mays there has been little talk about it.
Either way, that off-topic. Hire Harbaugh!!!
by 9thevolution on Dec 9, 2010 11:21 AM PST up reply actions
not sure how Berry is doing coverage-wise in KC
but he was touted for his coverage, as was Thomas. TJ Ward is doing well too though I admit I don’t follow any of these players closely.
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
I'm refering to this coming draft
I’m not entirely opposed to another high round safety, but I think Corner takes priority over that. We can certainly go to the FA pool for depth at safety and see if Smith pans out with some playing time next year.
Rahim Moore
probably the only one. Possibly Deunta Williams but I’m told he’s somewhat overrated.
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
Maybe DeAndre McDaniel
he was very highly regarded last offseason, but has somewhat fallen of the radar. Supposed to be extremely talented physically, but also read of some character issues.
Who says Goldson is walking?
If the team wants him to return it will probably be for a cheap price. He killed his market this season.
Warning: The Surgeon General Has Determined These Picks Suck
I agree
Although I still think it’s higher than we will pay, or he is worth.
He wasn’t worth what he wanted before, what makes you think he will know what he is worth now, down year or not.
All the Goldson bashers…let’s look at our coaching staff before we look at the players. I think it’s ALL on the coaching to be honest. Nobody is having a great year this year. NOBODY. That’s coaching.
Now if someone, or mulitple players in our secondary was having a great year, then I think you could say Goldson sucks, but when the WHOLE secondary stinks, maybe it’s more than the individual player.
Also, let’s not forget Manusky’s presser when he said Goldson was doing EXACTLY what’s being asked of him minus the TIPPED Balls. He said we should have more of those which lead to INTs, but aside from that, EXACTLY what’s asked of him within the defense.
I agree it's the coaching...
but Goldson still isn’t that good. He was just better than Roman was, and even that’s questionable now.
by 9thevolution on Dec 10, 2010 7:02 AM PST up reply actions
this
he could be better, but I don’t think he’s a free safety. I think he’s a strong with his lack of instincts
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
yeah, my point is
he shouldn’t be the one primarily responsible for coverage of the better WR or deepest zone whenever there is a coverage that allows for the safeties to play different responsibilities
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
No he wasn't good last year, he had a good game that was broadcasted on TV.
2010 in memory of the 1970 Bengals.......
Nate clements: Hey coach, had you put a better gameplan together, i wouldn't have fumbled!!
Wow
I think you don’t know too much about the 49ers defensive unit buddy.
Sopoaga has been one of the worst starting defensive linemen in the NFL for his entire career.
He gets pushed off the ball on running plays, he can’t hold the point when he gets double teamed (hell, he can’t even hold the point one on one). On passing downs he always comes off the field.
If you have a defensive end that can stop the run as well as get pressure on the QB you will never have trouble against edge rushers. Somebody has to get to the guy before he gets to the linebackers. Haralson can’t even bring down a QB, you think he can bring down a RB? How is he even going to deal with a guard pulling out on a counter play?
Bowman may look terrible in the situations he’ being put in but if you watched him at Penn State you would know that he is an excellent football player.
The difference? Penn State actually has good coaches.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2010 10:01 PM PST up reply actions
linebacker U
on Soap though…he held up nicely at NT vs. GB in the 4th quarter when they were running. He wasn’t knocked down or pushed around much. I think he’d be fine in a 4-3 but only 2-downs
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
Wow
“Sopoaga has been one of the worst starting defensive linemen in the NFL for his entire career.”
…
by whistlingmountain on Dec 8, 2010 6:54 AM PST up reply actions
yeah, that's a bit harsh
but he was really underwhelming last year…basically a space eater who didn’t hold the point half the time.
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
4-3
Re: Sopaoaga – I think he would do a good enough job for a year or two until we can draft higher for an upgrade. If we switched to a 43 defense, I don’t believe it would be a high priority. You could maybe draft a guy toward the back end of the ‘11 draft and see what happens. We would def have to draft a speedster 43DE though if the switch was gonna be made. Personally, I like the 3-4, but if we switched I’d be all for drafting Casey Mathews and lining up him, P. Willis, and N. Bowman as the three LB’s.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Sopoaga... clarification:
By moving him to a DT in the middle. We would have to have him and Franklin in the middle with J. Smith and another viable guy on the other side.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
this
soap, Franklin or RJF (AF likely walking) and J.Smith on one side with Brooks/LaBoy on the other. LaBoy has done a nice job in a 4-man front with 4 sacks as a non-starter. Brooks has a good motor and we have guys like Gibson to develop too (also a 4-3 DE in college).
DT is where we’d be most thin
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
Franklin isn't going to resign though...
I’d rather have RJF at DT than Soap.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2010 10:04 PM PST up reply actions
You don't think RJF could play DT in the 4-3?
I’d be more concerned with finding the DE that would line up opposite Smith who can actually rush the passer. LaBoy would suffice for now, but we’d need a real threat. I think the team could pretty easily transition to 4-3 if they re-sign Lawson to play OLB opposite Bowman.
DL: LaBoy/Brooks – McDonald – RJF – Smith
LB: Lawson/Harrelson – Willis – Bowman
You think he's ready to be a starting NFL defenisve lineman?
You want Lawson to play DE in the 4-3?
OMFG
Lawson is at his worst when he’s rushing with his hand on the ground. He’s a linebacker now…not a defensive end.
IF he’s going to be resigned to play in the 4-3 it should be to play OLB because of his cover skills and run stopping abilities.
Your depth chart looks very shallow. They need a LOT more players.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2010 9:01 AM PST up reply actions
Read more thoroughly
I never said I’d want Lawson playing DE. He needs to be re-signed to play OLB, where he’d better fit as a 4-3 OLB anyway. The depth can be filled with experienced FAs and later round draft choices. It’s only a brief look at how we could transition and wouldn’t lose a lot in terms of what we can do.
The defense sucks right now anyway, so it wouldn’t be able to decline very much
My bad
I actually feel that the defense can continue to run the 3-4 (but with good coaches).
If they go for the 4-3 then we’re going to end up with a “rebuilding” defense and we’d have to deal with a lot of [site decorum] for at least one year.
If the organization somehow managed to land a great 4-3 DC then I’d be all for it (look at what P. Fewell has done for the Giant’s defense).
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2010 10:07 PM PST up reply actions
Agree
If the organization somehow managed to land a great 4-3 DC then I’d be all for it (look at what P. Fewell has done for the Giant’s defense).
This would be a blessing if we got something like this, or a really good 3-4 coordinator. Basically, I think our defense sucks because Manusky doesn’t really know what he’s doing. He’s uncreative and can’t make things happen with underachieving talent like others can do.
we would need more players
especially DL’s. Would like to think Lawson could play OLB in a 4-3 but wouldn’t mind a savvy vet backing up him and possibly Willis at the same time (since a lot of 4-3 LB’s have played both spots)
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
FYI ... Stanford uses the 3/4 under DC Vic Fangio.
by 49erFanSince1950 on Dec 6, 2010 5:35 PM PST up reply actions
really?!?
That makes me even more excited about bringing in the top 3 from Stanford if it plays out that way.
I think we’re suited for the 3-4 now and we just switched not that long ago. We have guys who’ve only played in the 3-4 since coming to the team. Not the time to change all that. I love the defense it just needs to be schemed and taught properly. Hell, with some fundamentals I think we’d already be a lot better than we are now on D
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
Question: What happened out there today coach?
Answer: I don’t know. We need to look at the film.
by 49er Faithful925 on Dec 6, 2010 4:26 PM PST reply actions
More like...
Reporter: Coach, how do you feel about being fired?
Sing: Dunno, gotta go back and look at the film.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Excellent post
You make a good case for Harbaugh but I don’t like how you ignore the defense.
Sure Harbaugh would likely fix the offense but what happens to the defense? The secondary is [site decorum] imo.
Personally, I blame the DBs coach. How long has it been since the 49ers have developed a good defensive back?
A lot of you can harp all you want about Taylor Mays, Reggie Smith and Phil Adams being promising players but what good do those guys do if the coach is ruining them?
Another note: I strongly dislike coaches that want all the power in an organization. They almost always fail.
A good coach should have a scouting director/talent evaluator that he trusts to help him make personnel decisions, an “assistant” that helps manage salaries and the business side of the organization (Marathe should be retained), and many assistant coaches to help him with all the duties that come with being a head coach.
I believe that a big reason why guys with little NFL HC experience fail is because they think that they can just run everything their way. Eventually they get overwhelmed and everything falls apart.
Bill Walsh note: What most amazes me about the Bill Walsh/Seifert era is the fact that the team always had brilliant assistants. All of these assistants greatly contributed to the franchise’s 5 championships. But who was bringing these guys in?
This goes back to my previous comment about head coaches needing their assistants.
Final thoughts: I want J. Harbaugh mainly because:
Jim Harbaugh will be a head coach in the National Football League … soon. I would like it to be for the San Francisco 49ers and not somebody else.
But if he gets cute and decides that he’s the next Josh McDaniels, I don’t want him anywhere near the 49ers.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
Response to your comments ...
1. Re: defense — My best guess is that Harbaugh would replace Manusky with Vic Fangio, his DC at Stanford, who also runs the 3/4, but with more aggressiveness than Singletary/Manusky. Guessing further, Fangio might keep Tomsula (DL) and possibly Al Harris, but would probably replace all of the other defensive coaches. Given his lengthy NFL DC experience, I’m sure that Fangio has a long list of viable position coach candidates.
2. Re: developing DBs — the last GOOD DBs that the Niners developed were Lott, Wright, Williamson, Hanks and McKyer. Other good DBs were acquired FAs like Tim McDonald and Nate Clements. Which begs the question, when is the last time that the Niners had an outstanding DB coach? Uh, a LONG time ago. Obviously our HCs/DCs either didn’t know how to find them or couldn’t hire them.
3. Re: organization structure — I do NOT favor a dictatorship, whether the dictator is called “President”, “GM”, or “Head Coach”. Rather I would favor a “three-headed-monster” sharing power equally — Harbaugh (or other HC) specifying player needs and running the coaching, Baalke finding and evaluating potential draftees and/or free agents, and Marathe negotiating contracts, managing the cap, and running business operations. Note that other NFL teams make this type of system work while others use the dictator approach. By the way, this is one of the reasons that I’m NOT in favor of hiring a Holmgren or Gruden.
by 49erFanSince1950 on Dec 6, 2010 6:37 PM PST up reply actions
Part of the DB thing
Is that they had such a solid group for a long time that it lasted right into this WR era. Only a handful of corners have been good for more than 3 or 4 years in the past 15 years.
Personally, I think they draft safeties really really badly.
And I agree on the organization structure in general, but you need one guy to be THE guy, the guy that is ultimately responsible for deciding whose favorite player gets drafted, who gets fired, when the trade is worthwhile etc. The coach obviously needs to help “buy the groceries” though.
by whistlingmountain on Dec 6, 2010 7:07 PM PST up reply actions
They have drafted promising safeties
Goldson, Smith, and Mays all have the tools to be successful NFL safeties.
They’ve just been coached by boobs.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2010 8:45 AM PST up reply actions
this is true
they don’t tackle and look confused in coverage, hell, even before the snap you’ll see our DB’s turning and looking at each other right up until the snap and even then they don’t seem ready to run with anyone.
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
It's just so goddamn depressing
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2010 9:02 AM PST up reply actions
I disagree that they have all the tools
Mays has fundamental flaws with his change of direction. Goldson lacks vision so he gambles until he gets burnt then plays conservative. He looks awesome in the games where he just gambles gambles gambles and gets away with it.
Smith just isn’t talented enough to be anymore more than mediocre.
The huge problem is that the way the league is now, one of your safeties NEEDs to be great in coverage, and none of their safeties are or ever will be. You need the other to be good in coverage and good against the run, I can’t see Mays ever being good in coverage, just not horrible.
by whistlingmountain on Dec 7, 2010 9:29 AM PST up reply actions
they are out of position frequently
that’s on coaches. If you’re a safety in zone coverage NO ONE should get behind you. If you have to give them a 10 yard cushion, fine but you make sure you’re the deepest player on the field until the ball is thrown.
They don’t look like they know what they’re doing.
To your final point: you need a safety with good instincts who can read a QB and break on the ball. He doesn’t have to be able to cover WR’s man-to-man all day…if he did he’d be a CB. Good safeties know where the ball is going before it’s thrown or as it’s being thrown and make sure they are moving in that direction. Sure, a good QB can fool them from time to time but experience and film study are crucial to this.
I go back to coaching.
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
You learn coverage
If you mean instincts then that’s something entirely different that can’t be measured.
Goldson, Smith and Mays all have great speed and strength (R. Smith is actually very talented).
If Goldson knew what he was doing on the field he probably wouldn’t gamble as much as he does.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2010 10:09 PM PST up reply actions
1. I would be furious if Tomsula was fired. He’s an excellent coach.
Why do you think Harris sticks around though?
2. So you feel my pain. The 49ers desperately need a good DBs coach.
Looks like I agree with you on everything?
You are my new best friend.
:)
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2010 8:44 AM PST up reply actions
Awww ... two good topics of discussion
The DBs … I don’t know how they are suppose to improve if asked to lay back in a shell coverage constantly. In theory don’t you have to play coverage to be good at coverage? The coaching points from the HC and DC don’t emphasis DB development.
I don’t remember whose report but basically it said Gruden isn’t convinced about the 49ers job because the F.O. lacked the needed structure. Convincing Gruden would require strengthening Baalke’s and Paraag role, not further diminishing. Gruden doesn’t want to be left holding all the cards and any more F.O. turnover would just convince him no one is given a solid foundation in 49ers land.
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I think Gruden..
would rather different FO people than Marathe. People talk in the League. I don’t think Marathe is talked about well.
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No the report said he was really turned off about all the 49ers F.O. turnover already. That was the main reason he’d look past the job.
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Sure..
but all the turnover leads somewhere. Marathe is a bigger influence than we think he is. If the 49ers hire a experienced football VP, would he be under Marathe? Or above?
It’s not a big secret about the power structure in the 49er FO. It’s Jed, Marathe, and then everybody else. I mean, where is the turnover when Marathe has been there since John York took over?
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Could it be Marathe is still around because he's the only one doing a good job?
Nolan got fired because he couldn’t connect with players as a HC. McCloughan, well the truth is still out there but needless to say he’s stubborn with his evaluations even when proven constantly wrong (see Seahawks roster).
Marathe has kept that cap hell website quiet for years and read he’s been instrumental the stadium effort. Have you read Jed’s tweets? Wouldn’t you hire a decorated Ivy league graduate to watch over your gullible son trying to manage the family business?
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That Ivy League Grad..
was also John York’s right hand man who led the coaching search that landed Nolan. He said that Nolan was everything they were looking for, after nerding out with statistical models trying to replicate Bill Walsh.
Heck, last Monday night after the Cards game, Young and Millen asked if the FO was the problem in SF. Both kinda plead the 5th. Of course, Millen has no right to say anything about a FO. But it’s pretty well known it’s a problem in SF, and Gruden’s issue maybe a shot to make sure he will bring someone in like he did with Bruce Alllen if he is hired to make sure he the balance of power is on his side.
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Besides..
I’d figure the Owners of the 49ers more amenable than Al Davis, wouldn’t I? Gruden brought in Allen over in TAM too.
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Both Allen and Gruden don’t believe they got a fair shake at TB. If you listen to some stories the owners wouldn’t allow them to go young in a few key positions (QB) than tossed them under the bus when things failed.
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Yeah..
Allen was on KNBR with Razor and T, and he said he followed what Bill Walsh told him years ago, that you can never have enough QB’s on the roster. But what didn’t help Gruden was Chris Simms. Daddy didn’t like what was happening with his boy Chris, and it kinda led to Gruden’s reputation with young QB’s. I mean, how can you trust Gruden with young QB’s when he had 4 of them, and they all were mismanaged? Especially after having Dungy with mediocre Dilfer for years?
The Glazers had a valid beef. Look at Josh Freeman now. I think that was the reason why the let Gruden go, because he isn’t very good with young QB’s. Again, maybe another reason why he made a comment about the 49er FO, because the 49ers need to develop a young QB, and he may not want to be in the same position without absolute power when it comes to QB’s. Heck, Al Davis didn’t want Gannon as his starter, because he wasn’t the prototypical Davis QB. For one thing, he wasn’t a heroin addict, and he didn’t bench himself without telling his HC.
I just find it odd for Gruden to comment about the 49er FO after his two previous stints with other teams that have owners like Davis and the Glazers. Again, it’s a shot at Jed to let him know that there will be only one Sheriff in town, thus Marathe will be placated.
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I’m not advocating Gruden. I think he was mainly responsible for the QB situation in TB. However in his mind I doubt he’s blaming himself. He acts like he was burned by the situation in the TB.
Like I said the report said he wasn’t sold on SF because of F.O. turnover would likely take the Cowboys job if offered. His criteria was stability.
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Well that's a big time BWAH!!...
If he thinks that a Cowboys job presents more stability than the 49ers. Jeebus, that a whole lot of smoke Gruden is blowing up the proverbial arse. LOL, the 49er Owners are not only less amenable than Davis and the Glazers. They are now less amenable than Jerrah. Holy Crap. What a kick in the groin to Jed. Gruden knows how desperate this team is. Bwah! His son is leaking stuff to the press.
This is a huge kick in the balls to Jed, given the meager context. Welcome to the NFL, Mr. President. Gruden knows how vulnerable you are.
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Jerry Jones has his issues
Hanging onto to coaches too long is one of them, hence the HC job is appealing as long as you don’t mind Jerry.
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Sure..
He held onto Jimmy Johnson and Bill Parcells way too long.
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Oh, let not forget..
Tom Landry was way, way too long to Jerrah. He lasted over 5 years.
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BTW..
I’m a big fan of youse. I don’t mean to come off as flip. The best conversations I have here is with you. We may disagree here, but I hope you know where I am coming from.
Life without bignerd here is boring.
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The way Jerry Jones fired Tom Landry was absolutely disgraceful...
Seriously, on a freaking golf course? I’ve never forgiven Jones for that and neither have a lot of people in Dallas.
Wait a second
Johnson and Parcells left Jerry.
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really?
What makes you think that? Didn’t he work the numbers to make the Willis and Davis contracts work in spite of the cap issues?
by David Fucillo on Dec 6, 2010 10:53 PM PST up reply actions
It's not about the contracts..
A scout a while back to Maiocco during the Nolan era that he thought Nolan wasn’t bad coach, but the FO was really bad. At that time, Marathe and the host of VP’s were in the FO. ScotM wasn’t the GM at the time either. Add in all the turnover with Marathe still standing (Henegan was brought in by Nolan because Nolan needed a guy in his corner there), and maybe the VPOFO can be a sticking point for future HC’s.
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But how long have the DBs sucked?
It goes way back before Manusky or even Nolan….
The scheme certainly doesn’t help them but the 49ers organization has not had a good DB in years.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2010 8:48 AM PST up reply actions
yet even in "shell" coverage our safeties are constantly running from behind deep receivers when burned
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
the safeties for the 49ers are atrocious
if they did somehow end up with Peterson I’d think long and hard about just making him the next Josh Reed that can make plays all over the field.
by whistlingmountain on Dec 7, 2010 9:25 AM PST up reply actions
Maybe run a big nickel with Peterson the NB and give him some rover assignments
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
jesus did I say Josh Reed?!?!
Where is my brain today?!?!
Ed Reed!
by whistlingmountain on Dec 7, 2010 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
Fangio was DC for the Colts back around the turn of the century when Harbaugh was in Indy. He’s also been DC for the Panthers and Texans. He was replaced when the Tony Dungy brought in his system. Harbaugh’s staff at Stanford is one of the best in college football… and I think all of them are having fun and not real interested in getting back to the NFL any time soon.
I’m hoping that Carolina wants to stick with last years top pick Jimmy Clausen because a Harbaugh-Luck tandem would be intriguing in the pros. I was just hoping that it would happen in S.F.
by wtlichens on Dec 6, 2010 5:28 PM PST via mobile reply actions
no way. I'm in charlotte right now. Clausen has been brutal.
They’ll bring in a new head coach ( who I don’t think will be Harbaugh, they’ll bring in someone low key like Mike Smith ) and he will draft Luck.
by whistlingmountain on Dec 6, 2010 7:12 PM PST up reply actions
yeah I heard Russ Grimm might be there
by wtlichens on Dec 6, 2010 7:22 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
The Case For Brian Billick
I know everyone has there favorite candidate for HC, so here’s mine- its Brian Billick, he is a 9 year veteran coach with who started out as a Tight Ends Coach from 1981-1985 for San Diego State, then when on to Utah State to be the Offensive Coordinator from 1986-1988 and then to Stanford as an Assistant Head Coach/Tight Ends from 1989-199 after that he broke into the NFL in 1992 with the Minnesota Vikings as their Tight Ens coach, then in 1993 he was given the chance to be the teams Offensive Coach along while also staying as there Tight Ends Coach and in 1994-1998 he was there Offensive Coach his stint with the Vikings ended there. In 1999 he came back with the Baltimore Ravens as Head Coach and led the team to an 8-8 record in his first year, his Offense was rated at 14th in the league while his Defense was at 6th, He won a Super Bowl ring in 2000 with a 1st rated Defense and Offenses 14th, in his last year he went 5-11 but he is widely respected and is candidate for new Coach of the 49ers(I could of gone through each year but too much typing), I think We(niners nation) should make a case for each individual candidate. If he doesn’t get the job he could still be a great choice for Offensive coach.
i like billick
but many in sf want a more pass oriented approach since we’ve failed so frequently when we deviate from it. i remember billick being really conservative offensively. he’s more similar to sing’s smash mouth so i don’t think the changes would be as extreme as many would like at this point. they’ve even worked together on the ravens. i do think he’d be a big upgrade over sing, especially since i think troy has way more potential than trent dilfur did.
Alex Smith is garbage...
If we can't get Harbaugh, I would certainly favor Billick in preference to Holmgren or Gruden.
Why? As I said earlier in this post, IMO Holmgren no longer has the “fire in the belly” to TEACH the way that this young roster needs to be taught. Could he hire good teacher/coaches? Possibly. But IMO the teaching MUST be driven by the head coach and, while I think Mike misses the player relations and locker room, I’m not convinced that he still really wants to get his hands dirty any more.
As for Gruden, he certainly can coach a veteran team and is a creative offensive mind, but he doesn’t seem to have a lot of patience to select, coach, and develop a young roster. That simply isn’t his strength. But THAT is what this team needs, desparately.
by 49erFanSince1950 on Dec 6, 2010 6:55 PM PST up reply actions
Watching Sunday's game made me really not want Billick
It really bothered me how insistent he was to let everyone know that he didn’t understand the rules for intentional grounding.
by We Hit People In The Mouth on Dec 6, 2010 11:36 PM PST up reply actions
Just one problem ... he was right in what he said. But ...
Being an employee of the NFL Network, he has to be very careful about what he says about officiating. Actually, I thought that he was pretty clever, essentially saying “the officials are wrong on that call, but I can’t say that they’re wrong on the air.”
by 49erFanSince1950 on Dec 7, 2010 12:30 PM PST up reply actions
He's an employee of FOX... not the NFL Network
The network sports divisions employee their own announcers and color commentators.
Billick is also employed by the NFL Network
with the Playbook show, but you’re right—during the broadcast he was acting as an employee of Fox.
That didn’t bother me so much. I basically interpreted his “I don’t understand that” as shorthand for “I don’t understand how those officials could b e so stupid and moronic as to make that call which most blind men could make.”
No QB than Marty is a good option.
He usually gets the team to the divisional playoff round only to be undone by a good quarterback.
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exactly
Because college coaches NEVER leave there school during a contract. (This message brought to you by Nick Saban).
by David Fucillo on Dec 6, 2010 7:49 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
I see your point
but didn’t Saban ditch the Dolphins to go to Alabama?
NFL to college. Harbaugh would be doing the exact opposite.
I think Saban ditched his previous college team to coach the Dolphins
Once he failed in the NFL, he jumped ship back to NCAA.
Sure
Because he’ll turn down millions of dollars and the opportunity to advance his career because he loves Stanford so much?
Get real.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2010 8:52 AM PST up reply actions
He wouldn't even have to relocate and he'd receive a significant increase in pay.
As well as an opportunity to shine in the bigs like his brother.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
I'm actually feeling better about their chances to get Harbaugh
Than I did a month ago. Seeing Jed talking to him. Seeing how popular he is becoming in the bay area, and how that can help with their fund raising. The business and personality issues the Yorks may have had seem to be going by the wayside.
The whispers about Holmgren are intriguing to me, if he were to actually leave the Browns I could not argue with that. Assuming that he does not leave, Harbaugh is the #1 candidate for me. And I’d give him some front office power, I think he has a great eye for under-valued talent.
by whistlingmountain on Dec 6, 2010 7:03 PM PST reply actions
How do we know Holmgren nots looking for draft pick via tampering charge?
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But I think after the Briggs incident....
the FO knows well enough that they have to seek permission from the team to interview Holmgren. Jed could announce publicly right now that he wants Holmgren and they couldn’t do anything about it as long as we don’t contact him.
by 9thevolution on Dec 7, 2010 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
No professional experience
Is the biggest x factor. The pro game is a lot different in a lot of different ways. We always hear about Bill Walsh and that’s fair. Besides Walsh how many others with no NFL head coaching experience have succeeded anywhere near that level?
We rarely hear about the Dennis Ericksons’ and the Terry Donahoes’ and the many others who couldn’t make the transition and took the franchise backward for years.
Maybe Harbaugh would be great and you’ve certainly laid out a compelling case for him but I for one am hoping for someone who has proven ther can will in this league.
Dennis Erickson..
was HC of SEA before going back to college. Terry Donahue never had a FO position until Walsh hired him for his DOPP. It was York who elevated Donahue to GM after Walsh retired. Before that, TD was in broadcasting post NCAA career.
Erickson wasn’t responsible for the 49ers demise. He was a victim of it. Not that he was a good HC, but he isn’t to blame for the mess since. It’s mostly Donahue and John York, with the help of bad contracts and a bloated Cap. Since Donahue was fired, it lands mostly on John York for the Nolan era, and has continued with Jed.
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Walsh
I’ll say it again. Walsh didn’t have head coaching experience, but he had extensive experience as an assistant, which is something that works for college coaches making the jump (Coughlin is another example)
by David Fucillo on Dec 6, 2010 7:47 PM PST up reply actions
this
I’ll take a combo of lots of college HC experience coupled with lots of NFL assistant coaching experience any day. He knows the basics of being a head coach, somethign Sing or NOlan didn’t know. Plus he’s coached in the NFL. He knows X’s and O’s in the NFL, hell, he played QB AND coached them (everyone knows QB’s coaches are OC-lites and know X’s and O’s very well)
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
Great post. Add another rec to the pile.
And while I still like Holmgren and Gruden at the top of my list, Harbaugh is right there. It all fits. The last time the 49ers hired the Stanford head coach to fix their failing franchise? Eddie D hired Bill Walsh.
Really, any of these guys as HC would excite me, not only for nostalgic reasons but for football reasons. I love the WCO (most associated with Holmgren and Gruden, though Harbaugh also uses WCO terminology), but I also love the Stanford Cardinal. I’ve loved that school since I was a kid, and Bill Walsh had a hand in that. And while that doesn’t mean much on the football field, it certainly would excite me personally.
I really think Jed isn’t going to figure this thing out.
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Touchdown Forty Niners!
Giants Baseball: Torture. It hurts so good.
I liked it, so I put a rec on it.
I’ve viewed the idea of hiring Luck favorably for a few months now, and I’m really happy that you (‘since50’) took the time to put together a reasoned case for his hiring. I’m absolutely fed up with Singletary, and am a bit scared (my sig notwithstanding) that if the Niners do make the playoffs, Sing will be brought back next season. So ironically, I’m actually rooting for the Niners to lose vs. the Seahawks this coming Sunday, and next Sunday against SD, and again against the Rams (at St. L) (hence the sig).
The real question would be this: if the Niners hire Harbaugh, could they get Luck to tank the draft process so that he could continue playing for Harbaugh? This would be the one scenario in which I’d be happy with the Niners paying over-slot value for a pick.
Through 10 games, this looks to me like a 5-11 team.
twitter me @grantmp1
Let it be heard
I think Sing will be brought back next year as well. But not because we make the playoffs, but because Yorks won’t pay a big name coach to sit at home with no CBA. That and the fact that with no Training Camp due to no CBA it would be impossible to make a change to a new system.
If that happens (I don't think that it will), after 60+ years, I will change allegiance to San Diego or New Orleans!
by 49erFanSince1950 on Dec 6, 2010 10:38 PM PST up reply actions
It's a REAL possiblility.
I think it’s partly why we have stuck with Singletary even though this team is sinking faster than a boulder.
No reason to keep that idiot other than we are waiting to see what happens with the CBA. It doesn’t matter that we don’t have a NFL ready HC on our staff to replace him with, ANYONE would be better with the talent he has.
I see the 'no CBA' logic, but I wonder if Jed York's consistent predictions
are a way of stating his expectations as an owner/president: maybe he’s saying “I expect us to make the playoffs, I’ve paid guys enough to make the playoffs, so if you make me look silly, you’re gone.”
Pleeeeease let my prediction come true!
Through 10 games, this looks to me like a 5-11 team.
twitter me @grantmp1
I disagree ...
The reason for waiting is that there is NO VIABLE INTERIM HC CANDIDATE on the existing staff. Trying to think like Jed … the ONLY possibility would be Solari; but if you make Solari the interim HC you lose one of your best position coaches both for now (Ray Brown would assume the OL duties) and possibly in the future — Solari is probably THE MOST LIKELY position coach to be retained by any new permanent HC. NOT a good solution … especially with only four games left.
IMO, regardless of what happens regarding the CBA, Jed MUST replace Sing at the end of the season. Why? He won’t have a viable team if he doesn’t!
by 49erFanSince1950 on Dec 7, 2010 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
I believe that someone mentioned Tomsula having HC experience
That was in Europe, but it’s HC experience none the less. Either way, I agree that there’s really no one here that’s worth making the interim.
by 9thevolution on Dec 7, 2010 12:46 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not saying they will be looked at in the future
Just better than Sing. We don’t have a Frazier or Garrett on the staff, and so do what York did last time, when promoting Sing instead of Martz. Just promote some knucklehead because Sing is just as bad.
My choice would be to promote a "knucklehead"
as you so eloquently put it. This way you can cut him loose at the end of the year and potentially retain our decent position coaches for the next HC to pick and choose from if he wants them.
Not to be funny...
But the offensive system isn’t woking right now and it’s been two years. I really could care less if we only have pre-season to install it, we can and should do it.
Not to mention, I’m sure there are loopholes where we can keep in contact with players to at least give them the language and a copy of the new playbook to learn on their own. You think these guys are really going to sit around watching TV all offseason? I’d say we’re still better off with a new coach and new system.
They would have to go to Angelo's down on 4th street, give the secret password to be let in and view the playbook
I do believe that the NFLPA will not allow any players, who are signed to contracts, to have any connections with the teams.
Another possibility is to have a copy of the playbook on Ninersnation and Fooch would have to verify that the person requesting access is actually a 49er.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
We found loopholes to sign contract extensions
It would be up to the players if they want to flip on the NFLPA to get an advance copy of your new playbook. It’s not guaranteed that they would do that, but as long as we aren’t tampering and face league violations, I would hope they find a way.
Also, anyone know the situation with the coaches association? It’s a separate entity from the NFLPA, but could a coach personally approach a player during said lockout without any repercusions from the league or get team violations?
worst case scenario if they know who's the new coach they should be watching his old games
to pick up his offense as much as they can. call up Andrew Luck/anyone else who was in that huddle. The players who are serious will find a way to stay sharp and get a head start. Especially fringe players who are looking for any leg-up on the competition to make a team/win a starting job
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
That's wishful thinking
I would hope all of our players do that, but we can’t expect them to. I just think there’s some way to get the players the playbook and any other necessary materials before the season without tampering or breaking an agreement with the NFLPA.
it's their craft!
it’s no different than you or I taking college classes even if our bosses don’t ask us to! You want to further your career? It’s in YOUR hands. These guys are handed way too much. Go out and improve yourself! Damn right I EXPECT them to do this stuff! Do I think they will? Most wont. They are by and large a flock of babies, crying for their every need.
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
I agree
And we don’t have enough guys who do this in trying to improve themselves, so our team still sits in the dregs of the league. If half our guys spent their offseason training with the best coaches their millions of dollars could hire, we might actually have some talent.
by 9thevolution on Dec 7, 2010 10:57 AM PST up reply actions
Can't have any contact with players at all.
And most if not all teams don’t just give up their playbooks for players to take home with them. It stays at team headquarters so other teams can’t get their hands on it or it’s not photocopied. If it’s at team headquarters, players can’t be there.
Oh well...
Even with 4 weeks to learn the playbook, it’ll still be more expansive and creative than what we use now.
What nobody has talked about though
Is that we can STILL bring in a whole coaching staff, or HC, OC, and DC, and just use the old playbooks knowing the team has played 2 years in that system. Then just call different plays, different styles out of it. So using Rayes plays, we are just more aggressive. Using Manusky’s defense, just more aggressive, or use more man to man, etc…Just for a year until we have time to build in the offense and defense we want.
What coach is gonna do that????
We’re talking about a team that’s finishing 5-11 or 6-10, so why would a coach not install his own system and call it a wash year because of the CBA? I’d give him a free year.
by 9thevolution on Dec 10, 2010 7:46 AM PST up reply actions
I think most coaches would prefer to install there own system
But honestly, there may be no time. When do you find time to install your own COMPLETELY different offense after week one. Or with a week or two to go?
Within the season it’s game planning, and only like 3 days of practice. A coach wants to be competitive first and foremost, they will try to win games, and if it’s using the offense installed with their twist, I don’t think they would hesitant not one second.
We expect it of Mike Johnson, so hold everyone to the same standard.
There are no wash seasons, from the way people have bashed Singletary. This was not a playoff team this season or last year or the year before that. We have a lot of over paid and overhyped players.
2010 in memory of the 1970 Bengals.......
Nate clements: Hey coach, had you put a better gameplan together, i wouldn't have fumbled!!
Via Eric Branch
Last week, the Falcons beat the Packers 20-17 in a game in which running back Michael Turner (23 carries, 110 yards) attacked Green Bay on the outside.
Out of the 9 touches Westbrook had, 8 were between the tackles. Sing needs to go, period. he doesn’t game plan, his team can’t make adjustments and he has ZERO balls.
I didn’t really have an opinion on a new HC, as long as we got one. But after reading this post I’m on the Harbaugh bandwagon. Let’s hope Jed is too
Troy Smith is our future
by return2greatness on Dec 6, 2010 8:23 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
On the NFL network they showed how Greenbay would lose if the 49ers like the Falcons, moved the Defense around so as to not let the Packers know what defense they were in.
We have done that before, more last year where the DL and others in the box were all standing up until the last couple seconds… to totally confuse the QB. and it worked every time.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
with Ray McDonald in the game, that becomes very possible
also with RJF in the game too…Sopoaga isn’t a pass-down DL but McDonald can be and RJF is more of a hybrid 0/3 technique DL. Then you take the OLB’s and make the offense decide who’s a rusher, who’s a lineman, who’s a LB…works especially well with stunts because the DL’s would stand up and loop around or cross anyways on a stunt.
See: Manning, Payton – Indianapolis 2009
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
Ah, Dick LaBeau has been doing this FOREVER ... and with great success.
Granted, not every team has linebackers like the Steelers, but the fact of the matter is that his schemes work. WHY can’t other DCs learn from him? Is it Manusky or Singletary or both? Beats the hell out of me … but it also makes me angry!
If not for LaBeau’s defense, the Steelers don’t come close to beating Baltimore on Sunday night!
by 49erFanSince1950 on Dec 7, 2010 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
Will there be a next season?
All the talk of a new coach could be academic if there is a lockout/strike. It wouldn’t make sense to hire a coach and pay him big bucks if they are not going to play next year.
Expect a short preseason or slightly truncated season
The money is still huge for both sides so it won’t be that kind of lockout. Baseball and Hockey went thru hell because the pie was actually shrinking and the fight was over who would suffer.
Warning: The Surgeon General Has Determined These Picks Suck
Jed York has shown that money is not the problem. He took at great chance with Sing and at the time everyone loved the choice
But he also supports the FO and wants a winning team. That is why Willis and Davis each got the big extensions and why when Sing wanted two 1st round OL they did it.
I think at the end of the year, no matter what. Sing is gone and the new HC is hired.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
everyone did not love the choice, kind of a partisan way to look at it
there were plenty of people who hated not just the decision itself, but the manner in which they went about making it ( rushed and emotional vs timely and analytical )
Singletary is definitely gone. It’s going to be interesting to see how they go about this next search, will they change up the front office or give a lot of power to a coach.
by whistlingmountain on Dec 7, 2010 9:21 AM PST up reply actions
Please don't include me in "everyone" ... I have NEVER thought that his hiring was the right decision.
But, I STILL gave Sing every benefit of the doubt and routed for him to succeed. Really didn’t think that he would, but still cheered full-volume.
by 49erFanSince1950 on Dec 7, 2010 1:03 PM PST up reply actions
The pie wasn’t shrinking in baseball – it never has been. Baseball was about a long, long, long-held grudge by some owners against the players.
In hockey, yes, there were some owners (mainly the teams Bettman never should have created in the first place) who were actually losing less money with a lockout, and the NBA lockout that people have been whispering about for years is like that too.
But baseball was different, which is one of the reasons why it was so bitter.
Come on! Let's get real!
The NFL is a gigantic cash cow for EVERYBODY (except the fans). Certainly there is a lot of posturing going on now from both sides of the argument. But, do you really believe that when the 2011 regular season is ready to begin that either side is stupid enough to actually allow a lock-out? Regardless of how the CBA turns out, BOTH SIDES WIN!
by 49erFanSince1950 on Dec 7, 2010 12:59 PM PST up reply actions
Hoping
I hope Harbaugh comes to the Niners but with him being a top candidate for several teams and the Yorks being the Yorks I’m not keeping my hopes up too much
Sometimes it's really tough to be a Niners fan, isn't it? The good news ... they MUST replace Singletary.
by 49erFanSince1950 on Dec 6, 2010 10:41 PM PST up reply actions
As I posted above.. I have seen where Jed York wants to fully support the team and his HC
I am sure that if he wants a new HC, and it looks like he does, he will go out of his way to make sure they will do everything possible. He isn’t is father and everything I have seen shows he wants to be like his Uncle. So I would place my bet on his getting the HC he wants, if the HC wants to come to the 49ers.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
question to all of you
(And apologies if this is a conversation occurring elsewhere – if so, please direct me to it, as I am a frequent lurker and infrequent poster)
Has there been any thought to the idea of hiring Jeff Fisher, given that all indications are that the Titans will fire him? Seems as though grabbing a guy with a proven history of success and the ability to create a stable organizational structure would be very smart. My outsider sense is that the troubles from this year are largely due to the owner meddling in Fisher’s moves, not from Jeff losing his fastball…
While I like the idea of the Harbaugh signing (if only so my poor Cal Bears don’t have to face him anymore!), therefore, I wonder if Fisher would be better suited to the complete lack of organizational infrastructure we’re currently dealing with. Thoughts?
There is an official HC post, so go to Fanposts and look for it.
I do know a lot of people don’t want another Defensive HC.
Fisher
Head on over HERE. There’s some brief Fisher discussion in there.
by David Fucillo on Dec 6, 2010 10:30 PM PST up reply actions
Also to note...
If Harbaugh is our coach, he might have to power to get Andrew Luck. Trade up, and Luck would want to play for Harbaugh, so he could refuse like Eli did to the Chargers and do a simple trade…
There would have to be a comparable QB available
Rivers and Manning were rated very closely so it was a simple deal. There’s really no one who’s going to rate out as being as valuable as Luck. It’s going to cost a hefty price to move up to get him unless there isn’t a desire to select a QB by Carolina and they’re happy with the spot the Niners are in.
true
it might cost a little more than that particular scenario. But I think trade is possible since Panthers have so many other needs, WR, O-Line, D-Line, Sec, etc… Clausen is a solid QB, he just needs a supporting cast. So i believe Panthers will trade down and probably ask for a 2nd round, and a later round like 4th or 5th. Also maybe even additional 2nd or 3rd for the 2012 draft. We have a solid supporting cast, that just seems to be missing the playmaking QB, an Panthers have a QB with many needs, so it definitely is possible.
They may want our whole draft
If Ricky Williams got in, Luck could. I’d rather go with one of the 2nd tier guys to be honest. Newton, Mallet, Locker.
I love Luck, just don’t think we are ONLY a QB away. Teams like the Jets, Vikings, etc…trade up to get a QB because their window is open NOW. Ours isn’t. We can be NFC West champs now, but not SB Champs now. That’s the difference.
That idea hasn't escaped me. All depends upon ...
(1) Who gets the first three picks and whether they need a QB; and (2) where the Niners pick. I believe that Luck is worth at least a trade of first-round picks plus a player (maybe Staley) and a third- or fourth-round pick. Don’t know whether that’s enough (depends on who has #1 and what there needs are) but would certainly love to try to get him. I would pick him over Sam Bradford every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
by 49erFanSince1950 on Dec 6, 2010 10:48 PM PST reply actions
This
Problems from the HC and up aside, the niners are a good QB away from competing. It would be worth the loses in picks and personal to make that trade.
Exactly my friend
with that said, I REALLY don’t mind us losing the rest of the way. Seriously do we want to be a 7-9 team going to the playoffs? What an insult and think about the scrutiny the media and people will portray us. Anyways, 7-9 playoffs and then we lose. Then what? Where are we? And who are we as a team exactly? I rather get a fresh reboot and see how far we can go under a brand new direction, not constant heirs like Sing from Nolan. We really are a HC and a QB (like MinerNiner said) away from an elite team. I believe we have almost all the pieces, except secondary needs some work, but we would be on our way.
I wouldn't say elite....
But we do have the personnel to challenge in the playoffs pretty consistently if we had a good QB and HC with some continuity in a real offensive scheme. Right now, we have continuity in being really bad, or at best, inconsistant.
Sports Illustrated Article
Did anyone get the SI Issue where it talks about the agent that paid all the players? In that article was an AWESOME article about Jim and John Harbaugh and all the competing they have done while growing up.
Jim Harbaugh was actually a scout for his dad while still a QB for the Colts. Also Jim watches all of the Ravens game film and helps John out with developing some plays.
I have no problem with handing Jim Harbaugh the keys to the castle.
by twolfe2 on Dec 6, 2010 10:59 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Link
Here it is: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1175724/index.htm
You will fall in love with him even more after this article.
I'd rather stick with the leap of faith argument
You either believe Harbaugh will be a good/great coach in the NFL or you don’t.
As far analytical evidence? Every key NFL assistant has notable experience, see the staff now. The current HC has a decorated NFL past along with close relationships to existing successful coaches. What does that now leave? No analytical evidence indicating Harbaugh will be successful in the NFL. Jump or don’t jump, don’t try to rationalize it to me.
Warning: The Surgeon General Has Determined These Picks Suck
Gotta admit
Something about this plan doesn’t feel seem right to me. If the plan makes perfect sense than the plan doesn’t make perfect sense.
Warning: The Surgeon General Has Determined These Picks Suck
It would be nice to have a QB who knows the language and scheme from day 1
But there’s no guarantee everything will be wonderful after we do this. Is Luck good? Yes. Will he be great? Maybe. Do we absolutely need him to be successful? No.
There could end up being a better QB later in the draft, much like McCoy will be better than Clausen for the duration of their careers. If Harbaugh take the job here, he might not even consider drafting Luck unless he falls into his lap.
"there could end up being a better QB later in the draft"
Sure, but Luck’s chances of being a pro-bowl QB are greater than the combined chances of every other QB in the upcoming draft combined.
Carolina isn’t going to trade the pick, they’re taking Luck. So it’s all moot, but all the people advocating not trying to trade up or taking a corner over him are just way off the map. He will help solidify the Panthers for a decade. Looking at the NFC South, Brees, Ryan, Freeman, Luck. Yikes.
by whistlingmountain on Dec 7, 2010 8:35 AM PST up reply actions
argh, combined combined
that’s what happens when you rush a comment during work!
by whistlingmountain on Dec 7, 2010 8:35 AM PST up reply actions
You can say that now.....
And you could certainly be correct, but there’s no guarantee Luck will be successful. He could experience another Alex Smith fiasco. Imagine Carolina does draft him, but they hire a defensive oriented HC. Luck receives no continuity, he isn’t coached up, his confidence is broken and he flames out in the NFL.
Is any other franchise as inept as the Niners to let this happen? No, probably not. But it is realistic.
It’s also not guaranteed that Carolina takes Luck like everyone thinks. I think they need quite a bit of talent across the board on that team and they have a potential franchise QB (or two) already on board.
I never said guarantee as to Luck being great.
I’m talking about percentages
It is guaranteed that Luck goes #1 and that teams out of the top 4 won’t be able to trade up to #1.
“they have a potential franchise QB”
You haven’t watched much Panthers action this year. Clausen is not a potential franchise QB. It is immediately noticeable every single game. And I don’t hate him, I thought he was the most pro ready going into the draft. He just isn’t, he’s terrible.
The only way they aren’t the ones taking Luck at #1 is if they win a couple games and don’t pick 1st, or they get a crazy deal from one of the other top 5 picks.
I have to ask, but how much of the Panthers and how much of Luck have you watched this season? I’m getting the impression from people who speak of Luck like an Alex Smith prospect that they simply haven’t watched him. And the people who think Clausen has the potential to be a franchise QB haven’t watched the Panthers at all ( not that I blame them, I only watch because I’m living in Charlotte at the moment ).
by whistlingmountain on Dec 7, 2010 9:18 AM PST up reply actions
I haven't watched the Panthers other than the Niners game
I have seen Luck play on several occassions, and yes, I do believe he’ll be a good to great QB with the right team. I can’t see any QB being successful when their system changes every year. No, he’s definitely not Smith and he’s an infinitely better prospect, but that doesn’t guarantee him to be the Panthers’ choice. Franchises have done crazier things. If they don’t want him, obviously they will try to trade the pick, but he isn’t guaranteed to be #1 by any means. Reggie Bush was the guaranteed #1 pick until the day before the draft when Houston did the smart thing and signed Mario Williams
RB & QB are just two different worlds.
Luck will be going #1. It is guaranteed.
by whistlingmountain on Dec 7, 2010 9:36 AM PST up reply actions
Again...
Nothing is guaranteed. It would be a smart bet, but it’s not guaranteed. Nor is it guaranteed that if Carolina did draft him #1, that they would intend to keep him rather than trade him later Day 1 of the Draft. I don’t care how many people say that’s what a team should do, they don’t work for or own said team, so they can guarantee it until they’re blue in the face.
Luck could break his leg in a bowl game this year and slide to the bottom of the first round because he won’t be ready to play next season.
Luck would still go #1 if he broke his leg, blew out his knee, or hurt his shoulder
And yes Carolina would trade him or the pick, heck they might win a game and not pick 1st. But he will go first.
Sitting on a fence won’t change that.
by whistlingmountain on Dec 7, 2010 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
NOT
guaranteed is all 9th is saying. Did anyone think Mario Williams would go #1? Turned out to be the best right choice over Vince Yound and Reggie Bush but at the time Williams was not on anyones board as the #1 pick.
When is our QB going to answer questions like "You only threw 4 TD's today. What's wrong with the offense?" I miss the 90's.....
When Troy Smith learns the offense!!!
Thank you
This is the only point I’m trying to make. Despite it being glaringly obvious that Luck should be the #1 overall, and that you’d be foolish to not take him or trade the pick if you don’t want him, that doesn’t guarantee that Carolina will go that route.
by 9thevolution on Dec 7, 2010 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
Because?
The defense will still suck and the FO will still ruin everything?
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Dec 7, 2010 8:57 AM PST up reply actions
Great Post
Too bad that there a lot of teams that may have more to offer (Vikings, Cowboys). We are making the plead, but is it the best choice? He will have plenty of teams so I guess our next topic is which teams that fired coaches have to offer a “most wanted” HC.
Here's money for a cab. Now entering sleep mode. beep beep beep zzzzzzzzz
How do you figure any of those teams have more to offer?
What’s the difference other than the current roster that they inherit? Ours by the way, is really good, the talent doesn’t show on the field because our coaches are terrible and so are our schemes. The Cowboys obviously can offer more money because they have a bigger revenue, but other than that they really don’t have anything more than we do. If you consider that they have a QB, what’s to say Harbaugh doesn’t want someone else’s project?
by 9thevolution on Dec 7, 2010 11:07 AM PST up reply actions
Well
cowboys have the pieces in place just need to fix OL (FAs) and the defense is solid.
Faster results making a playoff bid.
Vikings all they need is a QB
We have needs QB, DL, LB, CB and special teams (no tds)
I understand that talent is there but we have more pressing needs than the two teams listed about. If Harbaugh was to make a decision on a team you would have to agree that the Cowboys job offer would be nice.
Here's money for a cab. Now entering sleep mode. beep beep beep zzzzzzzzz
You really think either of those teams are closer to the playoffs than we are?????
Need I remind you what division we play in? Both the NFC East and North are 12-13 win divisions for a guaranteed playoff berth, while the West for the next few years, should only take 9-10 wins for the playoffs.
Vikings need two new DTs since both will soon be retiring, or at least one of them. Their secondary is young and requires development, or is inadequate all together. But best of all, they don’t even have a stadium to play in after next year. That’s right, they have no home. The ’Stick might be crappy, but at least we have it until we get a new one.
The Cowboys program is run by a dictator. Jerry controls all within that team and so, it’s difficult for a coach with a strong personality who likes to put their stamp on the team to do that. Plus, they will likely retain Garrett due to the labor uncertainty and his familiarity with the roster and it’ll keep continuity for the offense. Examples: Parcells and Johnson, both of which left the team as successful coaches because their performance was hindered by the owner/GM.
The Niners, meanwhile, are owned by someone who needs their HC to put a stamp on the team and finally do something about our futility, much like they believed Sing would be able to do. We are talented across the board, but have minor spots that need to be filled, which can realistically be handled (minus our secondary) in one offseason. Also, we offer Harbaugh the ability to live right where he is now rather than packing up and moving across country.
The Cowboys job may be nice, but I’m inclined to believe that the Niners are going to have one of the sweetest job openings there is, if not the best. Jed might have to kiss a little butt and pay a little extra cash, but I’d say at this point, it’s worth it.
by 9thevolution on Dec 7, 2010 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
Exact reason why I think they could keep Sing.
“Plus, they will likely retain Garrett due to the labor uncertainty and his familiarity with the roster and it’ll keep continuity for the offense.”
Possibly
But our offense sucks right now and continuity is going to do nothing for us. I would overlook the labor problem if I had a chance to get a legit coaching staff in here.
Let's Give Harbaugh A Go!
I think he will be much better than any coach we’ve had since Steve Mariuchi. We have playoff caliber players, all we need is the leadership to bring it together, with a winning attitude type of gameplan.
I believe that there really is hope for us being able to attract Jim Harbaugh ...
First, let’s identify who will be looking to hire a new HC:
For sure: Carolina, Denver, Niners
Maybe: Buffalo, Bengals, Dallas, Tennessee
Doubtful: Detroit, Houston, Minnesota
Now, let’s cull the list.
The “Doubtfuls”: Leslie Frasier has been waiting for a long time — I think Minnesota makes him the permanent HC. I also believe that Detroit and Houston will give Schwartz and Kubiak one more year, respectively.
Now the “Maybes”: Buffalo — who the hell knows; I doubt that even they know; in any event, would JH go there? Not even if Buffalo had California weather. Cincinnati — Just don’t know; Mike Brown could do anything but he doesn’t make snap judgements but he’s also tough to work for; IF JH thought that Palmer was done and he could draft Luck … no, just don’t see it. Tennessee — Jeff Fisher might choose to leave but he won’t be fired; would JH be willing to take on the “Vince Young problem” and work for Bud Adams? I wouldn’t if I had other opportunities.
Which leaves: Dallas, Carolina, Denver and the Niners.
Dallas — two things: (1) especially with the current turnaround, I think that Jones gives Garrett at least one full year beyond this to see what he can do; (2) would JH be willing to work for Jerry Jones? Unless desparite for money, would anybody? Carolina — regardless of the Russ Grimm rumor, I still think Cowher is the logical choice; the fear of course is that if Richardson promised JH the opportunity to draft Luck, he might go for it. Possible problem! Denver — certainly a possibility for JH, but their roster and potential isn’t nearly as good as the Niners; JH and Tim Tebow? How about oil and water? Maybe JH is OK with Orton but then again maybe not. Much bigger job to turn Denver around than the Niners. Possible.
Which leaves the NINERS!! The positives — good young roster, need teaching, direction, strategy and tactics; bring most of existing staff from Stanford; great fan appreciation and support; don’t even have to move! Key questions: will the Niners give him enough power and will they pay enough? MY GOD, I HOPE SO!
If I’m Harbaugh, I rank the opportunities as: (1) Niners — if issues resolvable; (2) Denver; (3) Carolina.
So … how do YOU see it?
by 49erFanSince1950 on Dec 7, 2010 1:56 PM PST reply actions
also
Harbaugh is recently married and I believe just had a kid or has one on the way…sure following A. Luck across the country to Carolina is a sexy thought, but he might want stability at this stage of his life. This job allows for him to be in Santa Clara all but 10 weeks of the year (we dont even leave the bay for training camp), not have to recruit, and keep his house/life out here for his family.
Good thoughts
But, I don’t think Gailey is out in Buffalo after one year, so I’d take them off the list; especially considering the labor strife. That would strike them from the list.
As for Dallas, I don’t think Jones would dump Garrett so easily. He’s won 3 of 4 since taking over with a back up at QB, and the team is playing like they were supposed to early in the year. Keeping him means continuity in the offense, which he loses if he goes to another HC. Plus, I think the idea for a few years was to groom him to be next in line. I’d say he’s bolstering his chances of keeping that job after this year. With the talent they have, starting over wouldn’t be a smart move for Jerry.
not to mention what they're paying Garrett and have been
a lot invested in him
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
Panthers are not going to pay Harbaugh
They’re going to hire a low key assistant coach. 100% guaranteed, they have been floating that for weeks in order to lower fans expectations. It’s regularly in the news here ( in Charlotte )
I really think that it’s just 3 destinations for Harbaugh, Stanford, San Francisco, or Michigan.
Michigan can offer the most money, fans and nostalgia.
San Francisco offers the NFL competition while allowing for some consistency in his life.
Stanford offers the lowest risk, but also the lowest pay and lowest competition. ( I can only see him staying if Luck for some insane reason decides to stay another year ).
by whistlingmountain on Dec 10, 2010 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
What Id be most excited about...
is the moxie and highly competitive coaching attitude he’d bring, i.e. hed hate to let the guy on the other sideline outcoach him. It seems like Sing refuses to make adjustments and would rather be outcoached as long as he’s still coaching under the constraints of his personal philospohy, whereas Harbaugh, as we saw against USC last season, refuses to bow down and exudes dominance, psychologically destroying the opponent and their coach. We also something similar from the Pats in last night’s Monday night game, with belichek rallying the entire team and telling them to not let up despite a 31-3 lead.
Harbaugh
I really dont want to read every post so im not sure this has been said BUT!…while Harbaugh was playing in the NFL he was coaching!!! in Kansas. So definitely he wanted to be a Head Coach sometime.
And the guy uses a WCO so that alone tells you that he admires Bill Walsh.
I believe he uses a variation of Walsh's WCO
Personally, could care less what the offense is as long as it’s creative. But having a vault full of Walsh’s installation videos has to be tempting for him if that’s the system he uses.
I see your Harbaugh and raise you a Cowher and Gruden
If the CBA gets done I would either try to persue Cowher or Gruden since he has more familiarity with the bay area and is a offensive coach since this is the area that needs the most help. But if a HC like cowher may consider to coach again, then the FO must make a call and see what he thinks.
Joe and Steve were under the same system for years... don't expect ___?__ to be super so soon. Alex Smith is no longer expected to do much for this team in the future... on to the next one!!
Now I have been convinced, that Harbaugh is not a bad candidate. Doesn’t matter who the coach is, but QB coaching is a necessity in my opinion. I would still rather have a veteran QB, over a highly drafted rookie. Orion with Kaepernick in the wing sounds good under Hatbaugh. If he brings in 4 new Wr’s
2010 in memory of the 1970 Bengals.......
Nate clements: Hey coach, had you put a better gameplan together, i wouldn't have fumbled!!
I'm souring on Morgan a bit too
his blocking hasn’t been as good and his WR instincts have been lacking lately. Besides, Ginn hasn’t shown much in the way of WR skills (a returner, period) and Williams can’t get on the field. Ziggy is intriguing but probably too slow to be an every down threat. Crabtree isn’t a burner and his hands have been lacking too. Granted, I know the TE is the focus of this offense and we do have two very good TE’s…but I"m not opposed to an elite WR prospect.
As far as QB I’m starting to want a vet too. Someone who above all else is smart and can read coverages. It’s starting to look like we’d have gone to the playoffs with Shaun Hill were he still here…but we also must draft a QB or swing a trade for a good young prospect without tons of question marks.
Trust me, I have no idea either.
Nitwitter
we have to draft a qb, just not as a starter. Orton os who I want. Our wrs are a joke.
2010 in memory of the 1970 Bengals.......
Nate clements: Hey coach, had you put a better gameplan together, i wouldn't have fumbled!!
Get Jimmy Inorder To Get QB Andy Luck !!!
l guess the psychology behind why ever FAIFTHUL Fan, especially at NINER NATION is going all hype is because if we manage to land Harbaugh, the chances are much greater for us to get Andrew Luck in as our first round draft pick. With GM Baalke a great SCOUT we gotta more chances of winning the War .
GO NINERS !!!! This was my ROOKIE YEAR as a full time NINER NATION international Fan, starting from pre-draft season to the completion of the season. l feel like l’ve gained some knowledge (how to play the game), and confident enough to handle any Opposing Fan team. Thanx to all the seasoned veterans and editors at Niner Nation for grooming me in slowly. Although l ain’t no SUH, Give me another season or two and l’ll surely be in the Fans Pro-Bowl.
As you know on this side of the Pond we are into Rugby.l guess with the knowledge of ’fool’s ball’ l’ve got, if l convert my rugby position.If l was offense i’ld be a RB /TE If on defense i’ld be SS/LB if special i’ll be PR /KR /K
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK NINER-NATION !!!! GO NINERS!!!!!
YOU MADE ME CHANGE MY MIND.
What a great article, fun to read and full of stats and knowledge. Thank you,
Jerry
PS – I was not sold on Harbough until reading your post, and thinking it through.
JG
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