49ers special teams: College kick returners and future success
by David Fucillo on Feb 19, 2010 10:00 AM PST
in NFL Draft
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PrintOne of the pluses of Twitter is the ability to post quick thoughts, and to have on-going dialogues with other tweeters. I have tweeted a bit more frequently lately, although not nearly as much as a lot of folks out there. Anyways, one of the tools that has been created is called TweetDeck. It provides a single place where you can view certain lists of people you follow to see what they're saying. One of my lists includes Maiocco, Barrows and Mike Sando (ESPN.com).
In looking over my TweetDeck yesterday, I noticed an interesting discussion between Maiocco and Football Outsiders about return men. Whether you like him as a player or not, C.J. Spiller has been at the center of a lot of discussion as a potential 49ers draft pick due to the 49ers need for a boost to their kick and punt return units. MM made some comments about punt and kick returning, which inspired the following exchange:
FO tweet to MM: Don't think college return ability has any correlation with pro ability.
MM response: There are rookies annually among NFL return leaders.
FO response: Sure, but they're not necessarily the best college returners. Cribbs - best return guy ever - didn't return in college.
FO response #2 (before MM response): Guys like Bush and Sproles were elite return men in college, haven't been that way in pros.
MM response: You said Bush & Sproles haven't been elite returners in NFL. They have four TD returns apiece. That seems pretty elite to me.
FO response: Take a look at leaders for given year -- http://bit.ly/9Dd3Ok -- leaders are usually too valuable to return in NFL or mediocre.
This discussion raises several interesting questions. FO's comment about Joshua Cribbs is particularly interesting. Although, while Cribbs wasn't a return-man in college, he definitely seemed like an all-around great athlete. Somewhat lost amidst all this discussion of drafting C.J. Spiller is whether it would be a better strategic decision to take an "athlete" later in the draft and see what they can do with that person.
I realize when this area is such a big concern for the team you don't necessarily want to go cheap on it. At the same time, the team has some other areas of concern that might be a better investment of first round money, particularly if the team remains sold on Glen Coffee as a sufficient backup RB option. I'm not saying this is necessarily the case, but it's certainly something to consider.
While teams go into the draft with a bevy of information, there is a certain element of risk no matter where you draft somebody. The risk of a CJ Spiller is whether he can develop into an NFL-caliber return man, particularly given the potential price tag. The risk of not taking Spiller and instead rolling the dice on a lesser known talent in the 5th or 6th round is that if that player can't be turned into a quality return man, you could potentially waste another year with a poor return game. Risks abound whichever course you choose to take.
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the lack of athletes on our roster baffles me
and as a result, we have a between-the-tackles, physical back (coffee) sharing kickoff ret duties with a possession receiver (morgan) and a TIGHT END (walker). Now I know Morgans had success, but the closest thing to a true “athlete” ive seen returning kicks was Maurice Hicks. We talked about how much punters are important in winning the field position game, yet the FO ignores the need for someone that can consistently get us to the 30-35 and occassionally the 40 yard line rather than someone who squirts out to the 17 or 20 yard line. Hopefully they learn from the lesson Percy Harvin gave us firsthand.
oops
I guess Allan Rossum was an athlete as well, albeit an older one
by Rep the Bay on Feb 19, 2010 10:24 AM PST up reply actions
What about taking stud o-linemen with the top two picks and then addressing the return game with a like Joe McKnight in the 3rd or 4th round?
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
The OL thing sounds viable, but unlikely
That considering the type of drafts McC has the reputation of making, and the glaring fact that we need to do everything we can to bolster the offense. OL is definitely one of those areas, but only one. The bottom line is that Spiller could very well be the BPA when it gets around to us, and hopefully someone will be thinking at that time that Gore isn’t getting any younger.
If Spiller is the BPA when we draft I don’t think it will be by much, someone has to slip and looking at the draft board and the 49ers position I think it will be someone who fills a greater need.
I know what I'm talking about, I started at right guard for the 1992 College Park Falcons.
by Johnnysixnut on Feb 19, 2010 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
Offense is this teams "greatest" need
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
Special teams is this teams second "greatest" need
and that’s why Spiller makes the most sense. He fixes both in alot of ways in one pick. V-A-L-U-E
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
AMEN!!!
Thinking of Spiller as “just a return guy” is ludicrous. The guy has the skills to be the feature back (although not until Frank’s production starts to fall off; which won’t be that far into the future) and an outstanding slot receiver, and do both KR and PR, all in one body! How valuable can one guy be? To quote Drew: " V-A-L-U-E"!
Hello??
by 49erFanSince1950 on Feb 19, 2010 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
Offense, but not running back. The line needs to get better or nothing works. For all the reasons in the post below, I don’t think Spiller would be an upgrade over Gore. I think Dez Bryant would upgrade the WR2 or WR3 position, so I’d prefer him to Spiller, but I’d prefer Bulaga or Williams paired with Lupati or Pouncey to either Spiller or Bryant. I agree that getting a professional return man is a huge need, I just strongly disagree that it’s something that should be addressed in the first round unless the guy is pegged to start at RB, WR or CB. Aside form those Offensive linemen the players I’d hope the 49ers would consider that could realistically fall to the 49ers or that I wouldn’t be unhappy with them trading up for (not with both first round picks) are Joe Haden or Eric Berry.
I know what I'm talking about, I started at right guard for the 1992 College Park Falcons.
by Johnnysixnut on Feb 19, 2010 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
agreed. take bulaga and iupati and then the o line goes from weakness to possible strength-- would make both smith and gore even better. then take a flyer on a stud athlete later in the draft to be the return man
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
would make both smith and gore even better.
Smith and Gore are the only one’s who are going to make Smith and Gore better. Don’t count on the Niners taking two Olinemen in the 1st Round, not a highly probable scenario.
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so having bigger holes to run through and more time to throw wont make them better?
you’re kidding right?
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
Giving Smith more time is different then Smith getting better. Because he may have more time to throw doesn’t mean he’ll do the right thing. It depends on what Smith does with that extra time. Whether it’s letting reciever’s routes develop or if he looks like a deer in headlights. Though Gore can only benefit from a better line.
"Alex Smith doesn't inspire the Offensive Line to play well." - Random Troll on Post-Game Thread
by Hoopers Judge on Feb 19, 2010 3:32 PM PST up reply actions
Spiller
is more than just a return man and could be a significant contributor to the offense as well. Special Teams is more of an icing on the cake if anything. Not to mention that Sing has mentioned that they’d like to get more than one guy with return abilities.
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i thought ill start with you first
because it seems like you’re championing spiller more then alot of comments i’ve read ,i know spiller does more than run back punts and kick returns he’s a running back.. And if we had the 28,29,30,31,or32nd pick i would listen 2 that argument but 13 or 16 or 17 i think people panic because we have trouble scoring in the first place so its like draft spiller he make plays ,well i say alex you make plays crabtree you make plays jimmy raye you design plays ,i understand special teams plays a part in games but not that big not 13th or 16,17th in the first round big so we just wipe our hands with coffee right because that was are back-up to gore or was that a waisted pick bcuzz i keep hearing he’s not just a special team player okay so we take snaps from coffee i blame coaching on are ST problems and grabbing spiller just cause we have two first round picks is not valid enouph would we grab him if we had one first rd pick no.
PLEASE
Can we get over the notion of drafting spiller its almost starting 2 sound like were scared if somebody else in are division draft him (seattle).If we do pick him its like saying we don’t have any faith in coffe since spiller is a running back 2 so we dropped out of the second round when we could of got a DE 4 nothing yea we got a 1rd pick for doing that but is that were we coming from that special teams is that much of a problem that we REACH 4 a special teams/running back in the first round please we got bigger holes 2 fill theres always good special team players thats undrafted (cory sheets ) spurlock who let walked ,and why do they keep putting people like arnaz battle and other WR out there the best special teamers are RB and CB you would think coaches would know that!!
by jayjonna415 on Feb 19, 2010 11:00 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Read above
It’s not just about special teams, it’s about BPA, it’s about aging, it’s about trying to solidify an offense that needs all the solidifying it can get.
sheets
When did Kory Sheets prove to be a good special teams player?
by David Fucillo on Feb 19, 2010 11:06 AM PST up reply actions
maybe when someone decided he was our future??
by Mangoman on Feb 19, 2010 11:07 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Was That Aimed At Me''''
As i recall he was pretty good at texas a&m and as far as special teams with the niners they barely gave him chances at it and honestly he up staged coffee in the running game breaking off fat chunks espicially on those sweeps that they stopped doing once real season started maybe its that players that come 2 a team undrafted don’t get the same looks that the vets and the draft picks he did enouph to keep him on what happened 2 spurlock i’m just saying the coaches should get the majority of this blame st players are all over niners had weak st coaches and let go of good st players
In the preseason right?
He wasn’t good at pass blocking and wasn’t trying to improve, so there you have the reason for release.
Tribute to #42 Ronnie Lott
Sheets played at Purdue.
I’m against the Spiller pick.
I’ve argued a lot more fiercely than you have.
Word of advice:
Don’t try to argue with Drew K about it.
He’s convinced that C.J. Spiller is an elite RB and there is nothing to be gained by arguing against Spiller.
Just ignore the Spiller posts and be prepared to say “I told you so” come April.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 20, 2010 11:45 PM PST up reply actions
BTW, off topic
I never heard why Spiller did not play in the Senior Bowl. Unless I’m completely out of it and he’s not actually a senior, does anyone know??
Ok so I was right
And I found out he chose not to play in he Senior Bowl. It was probably a good choice. He didn’t have much to prove as far as game play is concerned.
I think the decision was more or less to continue to heal the minor turf toe he had there toward the end of the year. He will be at the combine though
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Can't wait!
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by mountaindew77 on Feb 21, 2010 9:34 PM PST up reply actions
I like the idea
of a change of pace back to complement Gore. Coffee did a fine job of blitz protection and running for a rookie, but he is closer to a clone of Gore than a COP back. Whether that back is Spillers or a player down the draft somewhere, he’ll need to be able to contribute RIGHT AWAY in the return game. I’m not familiar enough with any of them to say who it should/shouldn’t be. Although if Best is available in rd. 2, I think that’d be worth the shot…
Spiller vs. McCluster
Spiller vs McCluster
Assuming that the 49ers could draft either Spiller in the first round or McCluster in the second round, I’m going to make a case for McCluster.
The 49ers have a feature back (Gore) and they also have a feature back waiting in the wings (Coffee). So if Spiller or McCluster were drafted their primary value would be as a third down back and return man.
Who would you rather have in the game on third down? Gore or Spiller? Spiller seems like the easy choice, even though Gore is good on third down as a dump off option, he’s not a down the field threat and has just average hands. But……Gore can block. He’s really good at picking up blitzes, I don’t know about Spiller but I think it’s safe to say he’s as big a drop off from Gore as a blocker as Gore is from him as a receiver.
I’d take Gore over any running back in this years draft and almost any other running back in the league on first, second, third or fourth down because of versatility. There’s nothing that Gore isn’t good at and a few things he’s great at so the defense can’t key on what he will do on any given play. If Spiller comes into the game for Gore on third down, it’s a pretty safe bet that he’s going to be in some kind of pattern. He might chip the D-end on his way out, but the defense won’t have to guess whether there will be that extra body in pass protection.
What I’m getting at is that the value in adding either Spiller or McCluster will be in the return game where both would be huge upgrades. I think if you draft a running back in the mid first round than you should be drafting a feature back that can start right away and upgrade your team. I think Spiller could have that value for many teams in the NFL, but I also think Frank Gore is still one of the best backs in the league, he looked as fast last year as he’s ever looked (the blocking was just terrible). Gore has some of the best vision in the game, his decision making between the tackles is nearly flawless and while he’s not blazing in the open field, he’s got a blazing burst through the line which makes him a home-run threat through any gap. He doesn’t have the kind of speed to make him an effective sweep runner, but when the 49ers do test the outside they tend to run WR reverses (Josh Morgen) or give it to the TE in motion (Delanie Walker).
I think as return man prospects McCluster is just as good as Spiller, and long term (if he packs on some weight) he has just as much upside as a running back from scrimmage. He’s only 165lbs to Spiller’s 195, but he’s also three inches shorter 5’8" around the same height as MJD or Sproles. I don’t think he’ll ever be MJD, who is a physical freak as far as strength, but McCluster’s speed is off the charts, look for him to run a 40 in the 4.3 range. Spiller also caught a lot more passes out of the backfield, but McCluster looked good lining up at receiver in the Sr. Bowl so it seems like he just wasn’t used as much that way at Maryland.
I think Spiller could make some team very happy as a mid first round pick, but I hope we beef up the O-Line and get our return man in the 2nd round.
I know what I'm talking about, I started at right guard for the 1992 College Park Falcons.
by Johnnysixnut on Feb 19, 2010 11:16 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Dont want McCluster
even if we cant get Spiller
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If Spiller is gone
There is not another guy that comes close in talent in rounds 2-6. We may as well wait until the 7th for a COP RB… or even UDFA and invite him to camp if we somehow miss out on Spiller.
Guys like LaMarcus Coker, MIchael Smith and Brandon James will be there way later and may not even be drafted. But chances of a guy like that making the roster are slim as we saw with Kory Sheets who went undrafted.
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I agree that spiller is a great talent, I just don’t agree that he’d be a great fit. I feel like best case scenario he’s as good from scrimmage as Chris Johnson. Chris Johnson on the 49ers would not be nearly as good as Chris Johnson on the Titans because the titans can block. I think Gore would have torn it up last year behind the titan’s line too.
I know what I'm talking about, I started at right guard for the 1992 College Park Falcons.
by Johnnysixnut on Feb 19, 2010 11:43 AM PST up reply actions
Disagree
He would be an EXCELLENT fit. I don’t think there is a better fit in the draft than Spiller as a Niner.
Chris Johnson makes alot of things happen in open space (much like Spiller). The Titans have an average line. Johnson made the rest happen. Don’t take anything away from that guy. He earned every yard he got and then some. You can use a guy like Emmitt Smith in an argument like that but Johnson’s line is not of the caliber of a 90’s Dallas Cowboys Oline. I don’t think that is a fair assesment at all.
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"the Titans have an average line."
Sorry, I regret to inform you that you just lost this and any future football based argument, I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.
I know what I'm talking about, I started at right guard for the 1992 College Park Falcons.
by Johnnysixnut on Feb 19, 2010 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
Billy Madison? So 90’s… new material? original even?
Anyway, I am pretty sure that you cannot back that up, so I am not worried about losing any points… and God is a C.J. Spiller fan so I am pretty sure he’s on my side…. or is that Tebow? In any case, other than the “opinion” that you hold of the Titans Oline, they are no 90’s Cowboys line or Hogs like the Skins had in the 70’s. They may be slightly above average but they are not comparible to the lines I mentioned above… again Chris Johnson did alot of that on his own. Look at the numbers before he got the starting job.
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CJ had plenty of holes to run through, he just has a tremendous effort after first contact and has the agility to avoid big hits.
He did make a lot of plays on his own, but getting past LB’s was fairly easy until he faced the niners, and he still had a great game.
Tribute to #42 Ronnie Lott
We need some more homerun players on offense. There is not one guy on our roster that can catch a 5 yard pass and take it the distance from our side of the field. Maybe Gore, but that’s the point, he doesn’t stay healthy, he is approaching the average for a career of an NFL RB, etc… there are several reasons to consider Spiller.
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The thing about the running back position is that you don’t need to replace it until you need to replace it. You have to plan to replace a QB, OT, DE, DT ect. because players at those positions tend to be much better after a few years in the league. Running backs on the other hand seem to have a very low NFL learning curve. Depending on where they played sometimes you have to teach them to pass block, but you typically have multiple rookie backs go over 1000 yards every year. When Frank’s knee dies we’ll need a new Frank, but it’s not dead yet…
I know what I'm talking about, I started at right guard for the 1992 College Park Falcons.
by Johnnysixnut on Feb 19, 2010 11:56 AM PST up reply actions
The thing about the running back position is that you don’t need to replace it until you need to replace it.
I don’t agree with that at all. I am a firm believer that at ANY position, you need to have guys waiting in the wings.
That’s not the point of drafting Spiller anyhow. The point of drafting him NOW, is that he is a special tealent and will be able to give the defenses so many other things to think about and game plan for in alot of different areas. With the current offensive situation we have now, no body has anything to worry about really… even if our line gets a piece or two.
When Frank’s knee dies we’ll need a new Frank, but it’s not dead yet…
When he’s starting to miss time here and there because of nagging injuries, it’s time to start a new process. I don’t want to end up in a situation like the Redskins, where a guy like Portis misses a ton of time because of dings here and there. If we don’t get another guy to take some of that off of Gore, I can assure you he is going to fade very quickly. And I am sorry but I am thoroughly not euphoric in knowing that Coffee is the guy backing Gore up. So to me, I would rather have insurance in knowing that if something happenes to Gore (and I am talking more than 3 games) that we would be alright and still be able to advance to the playoffs without him.
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I guess if I agreed with you that 1. Frank Gore isn’t a very good running back and 2. That great running backs (like Spiller) don’t need talent on the offensive line to be successful….than I’d agree with you?
And as far as durability…missing 5 games in 4 years while recording four consecutive 1000 yard rushing seasons and never falling below 4.2 yards per carry behind an offensive line that has been under constant transition…..That’s pretty good…
I think expecting any prospect to match, let alone exceed that level of success is foolish.
I know what I'm talking about, I started at right guard for the 1992 College Park Falcons.
by Johnnysixnut on Feb 19, 2010 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
There were alot of games that Gore was in the 20’s where having a guy like Spiller would have been extremely useful. We’re going to have to agree to disagree at this point because I think there’s huge value in that pick and it fixes A LOT and evidently you don’t and are okay with having a guy who averages 2.7 YPC backing Gore up. But whenif we do draft Spiller and Gore goes down again this year and we’re still able to win games cause we did draft him, you’ll be thankful then.
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I’ll be very happy to be wrong if it helps the 49ers win games. I wasn’t overly impressed with Coffee, but I think he has a lot of room for improvement. He made some bad decisions reading holes, but he didn’t cost us games either, I think he’s a solid backup and could develop into a solid starter. He’s never going to be flashy but with better blocking and improved decision making I think he’ll be fine.
I know what I'm talking about, I started at right guard for the 1992 College Park Falcons.
by Johnnysixnut on Feb 19, 2010 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
Wow
I dont EVER seeing Coffe being able to start and that’s not just based off of his rookie season. I have thought that from the time he was a Sophomore in college. If you can’t tell, I was extremely disappointed with that pick. Especially since he was projected as a 5th rounder.
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Why does Gore have to be a bad RB to get Spiller? Teams do it all the time.
See Marshall Faulk/ Stephen Jackson
See Christian Okoye/ Barry Word
See Warrick Dunn/ Mike Alstott
See Larry Csonka/ Mercury Morris
See Marcus Allen/ Bo Jackson
Etc, etc, etc… It’s not a bad thing to have a great running back tandem like you are suggesting.
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When Stephen Jackson was drafted by the Rams, they had far fewer “needs” than the 49ers have now so they had the luxury of taking the BPA with a late 1st round pick. Marshal Faulk also had 10 years in the league at that point to Gore’s 5. A better comparison would be the Cardinals drafting Marino last year when they already had Hightower.
Barry Word was a 3rd round pick (like Coffee).
Warrick Dunn/ Mike Alstott
Csonka/ Mercury Morris
These were running back tandems who were on the field at the same time so both were starters. Not really a very good comparison unless you’re thinking of moving Gore to fullback and putting Spiller and Gore in the same backfield.
Bo Jackson. Bo again is a bad comparison, he was drafted by Tampa Bay (not the Raiders) with the first pick of the draft. The Raiders stole him with a 7th round pick after he sat out a year and played baseball. So…I guess if Tampa drafts Spiller and he plays baseball this year so we can get him next year with a 7th round pick, I’d go for that. Good thinking.
I know what I'm talking about, I started at right guard for the 1992 College Park Falcons.
by Johnnysixnut on Feb 19, 2010 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
What needs are you referencing exactly? Cause I'd like to iron this out.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
You are trying to create excuses with rounds and all these other non-relevant factors
Point is, those were great RB tandems and they worked. Period.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
Just because you end a point with period, doesn’t make it right.
My point is that none of those tandems except Stephen Jackson involved using a teams most valuable draft pick to acquire them and as I stated, the Rams had way more luxury to select the BPA because they didn’t have huge needs on that team.
I’m not trying to make an argument that having multiple players who are good at the same position is a bad thing, the basis of my argument is the cost at which you want Spiller acquired (a first round pick). How is that not relevant? The New York giants winning the super bowl was a great example of how a “running back by committee” system can work (and it’s not even 50 years old), how many of those RBs did they take in the 1st round? 0.
I know what I'm talking about, I started at right guard for the 1992 College Park Falcons.
by Johnnysixnut on Feb 19, 2010 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
I don't care what other teams are doing, I care what the NIners are doing
And currently we are horrible, stagnate, and just flat out no spark on offense. Our special teams was atrocious and Spiller can help spark our offense and do wonders for our special teams. That’s why it’s just the opposite of “over-spending” and “wasting” a pick. As much value as that brings in more than one area, I don’t see how it even comes close to a bad 1st round pick.
For me, I think a horrible 1st round pick would be spending a 1st Rounder on a guy who naturally plays Left Tackle and “hoping” he would transition over to Right Tackle and be effective. Trent Williams has Kwame Harris written all over him and is not worthy of either the 13th, 16th/17th pick. We tried to do that with Staley and it didn’t work… so if anything, everyone who says we should go Oline 1st round are not considering important factors like that.
If you are talking safety, then I agree, we need safety help. But thankfully we do have the two 1sts.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
I didn't know that Trent Williams
Was an “artist”
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 20, 2010 11:49 PM PST up reply actions
I think...
you are missing the point. Spiller wouldn’t just be a dirtect back up to Gore, or even just a COP compliment. Granted, he would take a lot of the load off of Gore (and his TWO bad knees) which could extend his career, but he also adds so much more. His return ability is impressive, but I think what is being overlooked is his ability to catch the ball. He can line up as WR and excel there.
He is a threat to take it to the house from 3 different positions (RB, WR, KR/PR). When was the last time we had someone like that? That kind of player is absolutely deserving a 1st round pick.
Now were talking about gores knees
stop it please ;mike martz is not are OC anymore first that three head monster that dallas uses the one reason why they use that trio is because there special teamer/RB is always injured i don’t think they really knew how good tashard choice ,so let’s go here if we draft spiller let’s fire the person who wanted glenn coffee because obviously that was a waisted pick.
Again...
I’m not saying we should draft Spiller to be Frank Gore’s backup. We draft Spiller to return kicks and provide a special kind of diversity to the offense. He doesn’t need to take 15 carries a game from Frank. 5 carries, 5 catches, and a few returns a game, with his playmaking ability, would be lovely.
Spiller would be a great addition simply because Smith dumps off a lot on 3rd down.
He has touchdown ability with every touch and we need that. It will be the most simple addition to bolster the offense and it doesn’t take much chemistry.
Tribute to #42 Ronnie Lott
up until
until new orleans one the superbowl i’ve heard more just a few times how reggie bush was a bust now i know he was taken alot higher than our pick but still there is to much maintinence 4 those type of players they get a splinter and there out for 3 weeks and you can find big play running backs /special teamers every year in the late rounds if we get him does it raise are scoring alex ,jimmy raye and that o-line needs 2 do better all were doing is enableing by thinking spiller is going 2 change are offensive problems.
I agree with you, except for calling the Titans OL, average. Simply because they play well together.
Tribute to #42 Ronnie Lott
I agree Johnny,
I think a guy like Javier Arenas in the second or third round gets us return ability plus a nickel cornerback. There are also restricted free agents with professional experience in the return game we can pick up. Like Danieal Manning.
I’d rather trade the #17 pick to Cleveland and take Josh Cribbs, who we know can do it, than draft Spiller in the first round.
They're called RUNS for a reason.
I like Arenas, but not as a Nickle corner. He’s a press corner, good in schemes with over the top help from a safety. I’d like Arenas in the third round or later, I think he’s a good football player, but his lack of speed limits his upside.
I know what I'm talking about, I started at right guard for the 1992 College Park Falcons.
by Johnnysixnut on Feb 19, 2010 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
Arenas = Allen Rossum… One-dimensional, little value for where we would have to select him.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
Arenas will likely be drafted primarily as a returner
His getting burned my Mardy Gilyard did it for me. He’s a third rounder at best and that’s being optimistic.
+1
Spiller has much more value then Arenas ever will. Arenas’ ceiling will be the starting returner and maybe a nickelback if his lucky.
Spiller can be the starting returner day 1 and be an offensive weapon day 1. What i don’t get is people assuming Spiller would take something away from Gore/offense. The Niners could run a large ratio of their plays with both Spiller and Gore in the backfield, that would be a sight to behold and a nightmare for defenses.
Also you can pencil in Gore missing 2-3 starts a season because of injury. Having Spiller start those games instead of Coffee, who showed little promise, would be huge for the team. Also having 2 explosive backs with differing styles of running could take a lot of the weight off of Alex Smith’s surgical repaired shoulders.
"Alex Smith doesn't inspire the Offensive Line to play well." - Random Troll on Post-Game Thread
by Hoopers Judge on Feb 19, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions
It's not infrequent that a team will have more than one productive, i.e. 1000 yard rusher
It happened at least once in the NFL in 1985 with Kevin Mack and Earnest Byner. Not saying that it would happen with Spiller and Gore, but there’s nothing to say they would both be productive. Add Coffee into the mix and that would be the Niners’ answer to the Cowboys. :)
That’s my point. With Spiller, Gore can be productive, if not more. And with Spiller on the team, with hopefully a few new O-Linemen, we can rely on the run game which would help Smith immensely.
"Alex Smith doesn't inspire the Offensive Line to play well." - Random Troll on Post-Game Thread
by Hoopers Judge on Feb 19, 2010 5:23 PM PST up reply actions
Arenas actually plays ST coverage
He’s like Marcus Hudson but with amazing punt return ability.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 20, 2010 11:51 PM PST up reply actions
Might be a little too generous?
I don’t know if Cribbs is worth that. And he would likely be coming at a higher price tag.
put shades on hit chest three times and say ''' that's my teamate thats my quaterback '''
just 2 let people know when i hit you with a reply its not because i don’t disagree with you because i disagree with you lmao but 4 real this is all opinions and highperpbly 2 keep us interested in our team why we deal with a long offseason ,by saying that no way im touching spiller and we do let him slip by on both pick i can honestly see him slipping 2 the second round now if we could grab arenas in the 4 or later no earlier cuzz his he’s a better ST than he is DB thats 2 me we need a OT and the next pick should be D-L or iLB if Mclain slipped 2 us would be nice or take earl thomas from texas
Hmm
Report: Chargers Willing To Trade Cromartie For A Running Back
what about a draft & trade scenario? Draft Spillers & trade him to SD for Cromatie…solves two issues—immediately makes the D fearsome and keeps Spillers out of the NFC West….known for an unknown. just a thought
Spiller for Cromartie?
No way! Maybe Coffee but not Spiller. Cromartie struggled and that’s why SD wants to unload
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
Besides that...
…I don’t really care if Seattle or anyones else gets Spiller. We will better and win the division regardless. IMHO we should address OL and secondary in the first and find a way to get Best in the second. If he is cleared medically, I believe he will be every bit as electrifying and versatile as Spiller.
Seattle got a very nice surprise in Forsett, why would they draft Spiller?
I know what I'm talking about, I started at right guard for the 1992 College Park Falcons.
by Johnnysixnut on Feb 19, 2010 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
Seattle
I’m not worried about Seattle getting Spiller. If they are looking at any RB right now, it would probably be a guy like Ladanian Tomlinson in free agency. Like Johnny says below (or above after I post this), they already have a COP back that averages 5.4 YPC.
Seattle needs a QB more than a COP RB. And then the other pick will more than likely be a defensive selection or Olineman.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
If I were Seattle, I’d draft a QB, but not in the first round. There’s too much pressure to start a QB if you draft him in round and when he’s healthy Hasslebach is a guy who can take a team the distance (unless he predicts a win during overtime).
I know what I'm talking about, I started at right guard for the 1992 College Park Falcons.
by Johnnysixnut on Feb 19, 2010 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
Hasselbeck is 36 years old and injury prone. They need to draft a QB and Clausen and Bradford are probably the only QB’s worth selecting as potential starters… which they’d have to get with their 1st pick.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
Warner was 39 and injury prone. Hasselbach is injury prone because Seattle can’t block anyone. All QBs are injury prone with bad O-Lines.
I know what I'm talking about, I started at right guard for the 1992 College Park Falcons.
by Johnnysixnut on Feb 19, 2010 12:46 PM PST up reply actions
So if they draft Oline
I guess they should just count on Hasselbeck being wround until he’s 45. Noted.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
Seattle needs a left tackle (Okung or Davis) and a DT. They’ve never replaced Hutchinson, but LT is a greater need now that they’ve lost hope of Jones return and their defensive line is too light in the ass, they need a big guy.
Not that it matters, Carrol will set that program back 10 years Dennis Erickson style.
I know what I'm talking about, I started at right guard for the 1992 College Park Falcons.
by Johnnysixnut on Feb 19, 2010 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
Cromartie? for a good laugh check this out
I saw this game live but then found this link…I am still laughing.
Thats funny stuff
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Feb 19, 2010 5:21 PM PST up reply actions
if you don't know now you know '''
’’’I wouldn’t touch cromarate with 7ft pole he is a finess reciever that will not fit on singles team he doesn’t like to tackle and i hate 2 say this cuzz i was far from a choir boy myself but o’l boy got off field issues 2 i think he was a flash in the pass 2 seasons ago and san diego tried 2 give him a knew contract but he sot that down how ironic now he looks a little light in the $ss 2me. thats soft if you didn’t know.
Spiller
The more I look at it, I know the Niners need that COP back or even someone with Spiller’s skill set that they can split out in the slot at WR. But, everything is going to depend on who falls where and what our glaring needs are (OT, OG, CB, S). Personally, I think Spiller is going to be the best choice at #13. No one else is going to offer the value we’d get in taking him. I wouldn’t even consider secondary as a first round option unless Berry miraculously falls to #13 or some CB flies up the boards and is a viable option to start immediately. Thomas and Mays aren’t worthy of #16/17 consideration and neither are the other CB options right now. Spiller is the best choice unless a pass rusher or top QB falls.
bignerd WAS OUR FUTURE!!!!
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
the more i think about 2 OL in rd1
the more I feel like it’s a bad move. A lot of people seem to be pining for 2 OL in rd1, but that will waste our first round.
We have 2 picks. One for BPA and one for OL.
If CJS is available at #13, there’s a 99% he’s the BPA. And as such, we have no choice but to take him.
What makes Spiller BPA at #13?
He is undersized and it took him until his senior year to finally become an impact player.
CJ
was always an impact player. I remember hearing about him as a true freshman. He just didnt get as many touches until his senior year because he split time with the older James Davis. Once they featured him in their offense, you saw what happened.
But why was Davis getting more carries?
Unless you’re Jim Mora, you give more carries to your best football player.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 20, 2010 11:52 PM PST up reply actions
You’re right. We don’t need to draft O-Linemen in the first to get a starter. You can find starting O-Linemen in the 2nd/3rd round. Though i’d love for the Niners to draft at least 1 O-Lineman in the 1st.
"Alex Smith doesn't inspire the Offensive Line to play well." - Random Troll on Post-Game Thread
by Hoopers Judge on Feb 19, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions
Well it's not so much that, as it has to do with
not having any worthy Right Tackles in the first round to chose from. If there were 6 Right Tackle prospects projected to go in the 1st, then I’d be on the bandwagon to draft one in the 1st but that’s just not the case. Right Tackle is the position we need the most on our line. Not everyone can be a Michael Oher and make that transition from one position to the other.
Two potential busts out of the potential 1st round Tackles this year could very well be Trent Williams (who has RT experience) and Anthony Davis (who also has been speculated as a RT). Both those guys are extremely slow and don’t have very good movement. Williams is responsible for everything that Bradford is having to go through right now. I’m sorry but I just dont trust either of them.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
I understand that the supposed 1st round talent for RT is limited at best. I certainly don’t mistake myself as some football genuis but shouldn’t it be easy for a talented LT to move to RT with a period of time for acclamation? They aren’t similiar but aren’t most LT’s more athletic then RT’s? So the transition should be easy right?
"Alex Smith doesn't inspire the Offensive Line to play well." - Random Troll on Post-Game Thread
by Hoopers Judge on Feb 19, 2010 5:18 PM PST up reply actions
Not always, and the transition is really a gamble. They tried it with Staley his rookie year and failed. To me, for a 1st round pick it’s just too risky to draft a guy in the 1st and hope and pray that he will be able to make that transition. And it’s also unfair to that particular player to ask him to do something he hadn’t ever done. The next thing you know, if he fails, he’s being labeled a “bust” and I just dont think that is wise or fair to do that to a player.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
i feel like he’s BPA because of how he can help a team.
: proven ability in the return game
: good hands out of the backfield, and talented in space
: has a nose for the endzone
I don’t think there’s another player in this draft that helps a team in so many ways. For example, Berry, who is as good a pick as any in this draft- he helps your pass Defense and your Run defense. lets see….he’s going top 5. If Spiller is at 13, he’s a steal, and should be taken.
as far as his size…he’s not huge, I’ll give you that. I like his build though. he’s got a strong set of legs, and that’s a good sign for a running back. but since his value is as a home run guy who’ll help us in the return game immediately- his size isn’t enough to refute his potential.
nose for the endzone?
I never want to hear about any player talented in space. No space exists at the NFL level, ask Reggie Bush.
The guy cited in Barrow’s article seems to think Spiller is mainly a kick returner and not nearly as effective on punts.
The guy cited in Barrow’s article seems to think Spiller is mainly a kick returner and not nearly as effective on punts.
Well I guess that MUST make it true then.
I watched every Clemson game this year and Spiller is phenominal in both PR and KR.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
Me too
Every Clemson game became a must watch game for me because of this guy. The thought of him in Red and Gold kept me up at night!
He is very effective on punts, its just that teams are able to make it much harder for the punt returner with the types of kicks they can do. Because they were scared of him, they do things like kick out of bounds or kick it high and not as far. If a punter has to do that against us, thats helping us without him even touching the ball. Love it.
Get 'em while they're hot! LOL
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
I'd buy one that weekend if we drafted him
and I’m a guy who loooves offensive and defensive line play.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
I keep wondering what number Berry is going to wear.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
Good question
he can’t wear number 14. Maybe 34?
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
Joe Perry
Cant happen if he plays for the 49ers
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
His Dad wore #34 also
If he is drafted by the Niners, he can’t wear it because it’s retired under Joe Perry’s name.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/tenn/sports/m-footbl/auto_mini/3531221.jpeg&imgrefurl=http://www.utsports.com/chat/090909aaa.html&usg=yso1BR-jEQxDtEiQSAIhJlP4ogw=&h=125&w=75&sz=8&hl=en&start=43&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=OCMSHHew9QSpiM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=54&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djames%2Bberry%2Btennessee%26start%3D36%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1R2GGLLen%26ndsp%3D18%26tbs%3Disch:1
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
More Spiller bashing
After watching all the Spiller highlights that I can get my hands on, I really hope we don’t draft him.
I don’t think he’s going to be a very good NFL return man, he has way too much “run backwards” in him. I think he will score some touchdowns, but I think he’ll have a lot of negative punt returns too. He might be able to adjust his game to the pros, but he’s going to need some coaching.
As a running back from scrimmage he’s way too loose with the ball, in the pros he’ll need to keep two hands on it or he’s going to get stripped. He also stops in the backfield and dances around, you can’t do that in the pros. That’s the reason Bush is a utility back, too many plays stopped in the backfield. This guy is nothing like Chris Johnson except for their speed, Johnson never stops going forward and makes his “jukes” full speed ahead. The only backs that can make the running style Spiller has work in the pros have had such tremendous lower body strength that they can power forward when they’ve been caught in a “juke”, but Spiller doesn’t look that strong and he’s not built like those guys (MJD, Barry Sanders).
I think Spiller is a guy who could be used similar to Reggie Bush, they have a lot of similarities in their game except that in the open field Bush runs over as many people as he runs around. I think his time as a running back from scrimmage will be pretty limited though. If the 49ers drafted him I think he’d take more playing time away from Delanie Walker than Frank Gore lining up as an H-Back, running screens and reverses.
I know what I'm talking about, I started at right guard for the 1992 College Park Falcons.
You are certainly welcome to your opinion. But I have to disagree with every single word you typed. I watched him play the entire season and you are basing this rant on a few highlights. I really hope that you are disappointed on draft day and that’s all I really have left to say about this. Again, Reggie Bush and Spiller are NOTHING alike in their styles. Spiller is more of a Marshall Faulk type of player, Chris Johnson, etc, He moves vertically north and south, not east and west like Bush did, or does from time to time. I think the Bush comparison is about as silly as it gets.
I have made PLENTY of valid arguments in Spillers defense and at this point it’s just tiring.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
In regards to being able to
catch great out of the back field and their abilities to make people miss. Both Faulk and Johnson didn’t spend much time going east and west, so in that regard they are alike.
C.J. Spiller is like C.J. Spiller. Unique.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
I liked his ability to catch passes out of the backfield, or as an H-Back. I’d love to be able to watch an actual Clemson game and if you have a link to film that shows him quickly hitting inside holes with two hands on the ball than please post it. I’m not saying that there’s no way he can adjust his game to the NFL, but what I saw was a running style that exploited bad college tackling. Chris Johnson almost never stops his momentum between the tackles to try to make someone miss.
I think the Faulk comparison is fair as a receiver, but again Spiller is no where near that polished as a runner, Faulk as a back from scrimmage was actually very similar in style to Frank Gore. Faulk, like Gore, had amazing vision and feel for reading blocks. Spiller might have that too, but I didn’t see him do much inside running, he bounced a lot of off tackle runs to the outside or ran sweeps.
I know what I'm talking about, I started at right guard for the 1992 College Park Falcons.
RE: Spiller
Really tempting to get back into this.
Oh well….
BTW: Why can’t we talk about other returners without comparing them to Spiller?
I feel left out since most (all) conversations are related to Spiller.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
Probably because Spiller had the best return numbers in college football
or pretty darn close
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
Arenas was MUCH better at punt returns.
And Gilyard had a higher average than Spiller on KRs.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 21, 2010 12:20 AM PST up reply actions
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