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Around SBN: The Worst Team Ever Projected?

Statistical Review of the 2009 49ers: V. Quarterbacks

Welcome back for the fifth installment of my 2009 Niner stat review. If you missed Parts 1-4, you can read them here, here, here, and here.

Today in Part 5, I'll begin looking at specific positions, starting with QBs. Although I've already spent several thousand words on Niners Nation comparing Alex Smith to Shaun Hill, there's still much to be said and new ways to say it. For example, how did Smith and Hill compare statistically to the average playoff QB in 2009? Or how about looking at their respective drive stats? Haven't done that before.

So, I hope when I'm done today, we'll be able to put this puppy to bed once and for all.

QB EFFICIENCY

Below are the main efficiency stats for Niner QBs in 2009, alongside those of the average playoff QB and the Super Bowl champion QB. I've included the usual individual DVOA stats, as well as 3 of the 4 QB Rating components (#1-#8 performance in bold; #25-or-below performance in italics):

Team

QB DVOA

Rk

Comp Rate

Rk

TD Rate

Rk

INT Rate

Rk

Alex Smith

-14.4%

28

60.6%

23

4.6%

13

3.0%

33

Shaun Hill

-31.3%

40

56.9%

32

2.8%

35

1.1%

1

Drew Brees

41.0%

3

70.9%

1

6.3%

1

2.0%

15

Playoffs

24.4%

11.4

64.6%

12.3

4.8%

10.8

2.2%

15.1

Where to begin? Well, one thing that stands out is that Smith was better than Hill in every category except for INT Rate, where Hill was actually the best QB in the NFL this season (!!!). Notice however that - contrary to conventional wisdom - playoff QBs ranked lower in IR Rate than in the other 3 categories; and this trend is reinforced by the pattern of rankings for Drew Brees. So, although it's nice that Hill was so INT-averse this season - a hallmark of the "game-managing" QB - it turns out that frequent completions and TDs are more important than infrequent INTs. And looking at the two Niner QBs, it's clear that Smith's efficiency stats in 2009 fit the playoff QB profile more closely than did Hill's. In fact, his TD Rate - the category in which playoff QBs ranked highest - was nearly identical to that of the average playoff QB.

After the jump, I'll continue beating the dead horse...

Star-divide

QB YARDAGE

So, contrary to what some of you might think, Smith was the more efficient 49er QB this past season. But was he also the more productive QB in terms of yardage per pass? Well, here's the relevant table:

Team

DYAR/P

Rk

Yds/P

Rk

EYds/P

Rk

Alex Smith

-0.20

28

5.82

25

4.79

28

Shaun Hill

-1.19

40

4.95

37

3.12

41

Drew Brees

3.43

3

8.04

2

9.99

3

Playoffs

2.30

11.3

7.13

10.4

8.29

11.0

If you don't know what EYds and/or DYAR are, click here for an explanation...Also, remember that these are stats per pass, so comparisons are valid despite differences in playing time.

It's clear from the above table that Niner QBs were nowhere near as productive in 2009 as was the average playoff QB. To boot, given that both Smith's and Hill's DYAR/P was negative, they weren't even as productive (aka valuable) as an average backup. However, once again, Smith was more productive than Hill in 2009: each pass was a full-yard more valuable and 1.5-yards more effective given the game situation.

QB DRIVE STATS

At this point, I think it's fair to say that Smith was the better QB according to FO's 2009 statistics. Indeed, the only thing that Hill seemed better at individually was avoiding INTs; but, hell, even Drew Brees wasn't great at that. Furthermore, despite playing in a much more free-wheeling style of OFF, Smith actually completed a higher percentage of his passes than Hill did when he was leading the Niners' 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust pass OFF. In other words, Smith was more accurate despite having to make throws that were more difficult. If that isn't enough, here's a table showing Smith's and Hill's respective drive stats, some of which might surprise you (better QB in bold):

Drive Stat

Hill (66 Drives)

Smith (124 Drives)

Yds/Dr

20.88

26.23

Plays/Dr

4.76

5.06

Pts/Dr

1.27

1.76

FDs/Dr

1.08

1.33

TOP/Dr

2:24

2:29

Clearly, from a production standpoint, Smith's drives were better than Hill's drives. However, what's most interesting to me, and what pretty much ends the conversation - yeah, right - is that Smith was actually better than Hill at sustaining drives. Given the conservative, run-oriented OFF exhibited when Hill was at QB, you'd expect for his drives to last longer, on average, than Smith's. Also, remember that several of Smith's games involved fast-and-furious comebacks in the 2nd half, i.e., drives in which quick scores were a priority. So, the fact that Smith's average drive lasted 5 seconds longer than Hill's is pretty astonishing, and debunks the myth that a higher-scoring OFF can't also be a ball-controlling OFF.

So, let me get this straight. Smith's more accurate. Smith's more efficient. Smith's average drive scores more points than Hill's and chews up more clock. Remind me what the argument in favor of Hill was again? Oh yeah, I forgot. He doesn't turn the ball over as much. And that's really what Smith-vs.-Hill boils down to in the end. With Smith, so much is gained, and the only price to pay is a slightly higher turnover rate, which by the way didn't seem to mean much for QBs in 2009.

But, we're not at the end just yet. If I still haven't convinced you, here's a graph showing how often each QB's drives ended with a specific result (%s for each QB add up to 100%):

 2009_49ers_season_recap_--_qb_drives_1_medium

It's true, Hill's drives were 7.6% less likely to end in a turnover. However, Smith's were 6.4% more likely to end in a score, and 10.7% less likely to end in a punt. Indeed, a whopping 59.1% of Hill's drives ended in a punt! So if more punting and less scoring is what you like, then Hill's your QB. And if Hill's your QB, then you're really going to love this next graph, which further breaks down the "Punt" and "Score" results into (a) the % of punt-ended drives for each QB that were of the 3-and-out variety, and (b) the % of scoring drives for each QB that were of the TD variety. Enjoy:

Qb_drives_2_medium

In case it's difficult to read, that first set of bars shows nearly 72% of the punts on Hill's watch constituted the "out" part of "3-and-out." Considering that nearly 60% of all Hill drives ended with a punt, this means that - cover your eyes for this - 42.4% of ALL Hill drives were 3-and-out. I don't care how many INTs the guy avoids. When I can basically flip a coin to predict whether a Hill drive is going to be 3-and-out, it's just not worth it anymore.

And finally, here's another bit of hard-hitting analysis. Not all scoring drives result in the same number of points (Duh!). So, to say that the 49ers were sacrificing scoring with Hill might be an understatement if, in addition to leading a 3-and-out-heavy OFF, he also led a FG-heavy OFF. The second set of bars in the above graph shows exactly that. Only 56.2% of Hill's scoring drives were TD drives, which means 43.8% ended in a FG. Compare this to Smith, whose scoring drives resulted in TDs nearly 70% of the time.

BOTTOM LINE

I think I've made a pretty rock-solid case here that the choice between Hill and Smith does not come down to one guy being better for a ball-controlling, high-percentage, conservative OFF, and the other being better for a quick-scoring, deep-passing, aggressive OFF. Rather, their respective 2009 stats show that Smith can do both. His drives ate more clock, lasted more plays, and scored more points; his passes were more accurate; and his yardage was more efficient. What else do you want from the guy? Is it really worth it to go back to Hill just so that the Niners can boast the least-intercepted starting QB in the league? I say no.

So, based on the stats I've presented in Part 5 of the season review, here are the things the Niners need to do vis-à-vis their QBs in order to seriously contend in 2010:

  1. Quit playing games. Smith is better than Hill in nearly every stat category, so name him the starter already.
  2. Improve Smith's individual efficiency by about 30%
  3. Improve Smith's yards-per-pass by about 1 yard

With a full offseason to automate the passing game alongside Vernon Davis, Michael Crabtree, and Josh Morgan, I think these improvements are probably within reach.

*DVOA, DYAR, and EYds statistics used to produce this article were provided by Football Outsiders.

Poll
Who do you think SHOULD BE the 49ers' starting QB in 2010?
Alex Smith
510 votes
Shaun Hill
16 votes
Nate Davis
97 votes
Other (Specify in comments)
29 votes

652 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 55 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Absolutely fascinating...

…and it fits with what I personally saw (or thought I did) in the games. But how do we reconcile this data with Burke’s win-probability analysis, which suggests that Hill was more productive than Smith? I’m still struggling to grasp how that relates to DYAR and DVOA. Also, one of the things the Burke discussion highlighted was the difference between descriptive analyses of past performance, vs. predictive analyses of future performance. I’ve been assuming that player efficiency rankings have some predictive value, but now I’m not so sure. Can you shed some light on this? Thanks!

by Bigmouth on Feb 20, 2010 9:04 AM PST reply actions  

I think there isn’t really any reconciliation to be done. The Burke analysis accepts that the 49ers offense is significantly worse with Shaun Hill. In fact, it states it pretty plainly. What it says is that Hill gets the most out of an offense that isn’t expected to have any success when he’s the quarterback. Then, it says that Alex Smith fails to get enough out of an offense that is expected to have some actual success when he’s the quarterback.

It’s saying that if the best offense in the league is 100, then the Shaun Hill offense should have been a 30 based on average down and distance and other game situations. However, Hill managed to squeeze a 35 out of it, maybe even a 40. The Alex Smith offense, it says, should have been a 65 or a 70 based on average down and distance and other game situations, but Smith only managed to get a 55 or a 60 out of it.

It says that Alex Smith made the offense better, but not as much better as he should have, while Shaun Hill made the offense worse, but not as bad as it should have been.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 20, 2010 11:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Win probability analysis

Do you remember the old line about lies, damn lies, and statistics? Hill was more likely to win in a statistical analysis because of who we played—-3 games (and 3 wins) of the first 4 games last year were against NFC west teams.

Statistics, almost by definition, can’t have predictive power—-they analyze the past. Factor in other changes occurring to the variables that Florida Danny thinks he can control (injuries of key defensive backs, Jimmy Raye changing the fundamentals of the offense, the arrival and integration of Michael Crabtree, all occurring around the time of QB transition), and the analysis is interesting but total nonsense in any predictive sense.

by seafood lover on Feb 20, 2010 9:36 AM PST reply actions  

No offense...

…but when people claim that statistics can’t have predictive value, it makes me wonder if they really understand what they’re criticizing.

by Bigmouth on Feb 20, 2010 10:42 AM PST up reply actions  

PS

To give a very simple example from baseball, when someone who’s averaged around 20 home runs per season suddenly hits 40 dingers, statistical analysis predicts he was lucky and will regress to his career average the next season.

by Bigmouth on Feb 20, 2010 10:48 AM PST up reply actions  

I think the problem is that people just expect “predictions” to have no margin for error. Not all statistics have predictive power, but some do. And of course there is a margin of error. For example, those stats would have predicted that the player most likely hit about 20 home runs during that season. It’s clearly the most likely thing. But he hit 40. It doesn’t mean that the prediction was “wrong.” The prediction didn’t say, “He WILL do this”. It says, “there’s x% chance this will happen, and that happens to be a stronger chance than anything else.” Fluctuations are built into the predictive system. It’s the nature of the beast. But people want to see them as hardline reports of what actually will happen.

Also, the next person to quote that lies, damn lies, and statistics line gets banned.

Yes, we all remember that line. Somebody quotes it in EVERY SINGLE stats-heavy thread.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 20, 2010 11:19 AM PST up reply actions  

If Shaun Hill even had an average arm he would be our starter

But he does not he has a terrible arm unfortunately. Alex Smith has a good arm and hopefully will learn to do some things better

Bad pick Peyton "Regular Season" Manning!!!

by Athletic on Feb 20, 2010 10:29 AM PST reply actions  

Yeah, this all suggests pretty strongly that it’s not just his arm that’s the problem. His arm is worse. His accuracy is worse. His efficiency is worse. His game management is worse. At least, all of this from a quantifiable point of view.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 20, 2010 11:21 AM PST up reply actions  

When is the Alex Smith press conference scheduled when he will apologize to the fans and his team mates etc,for his horrible behavior ON the field ? (sorry,I couldn’t resist after watching Tiger on television yesterday,lol)

We all know that statistics often lie. As Mark Twain said…There are lies and then there are damned lies and then worst of all there are statistics(I think it was Mark Twain ?). So no matter what Alex’s stats were we all know from the good old eyeball test that he is not a very good QB in the NFL and probably never will be.I hope he turns it all around and a miracle happens and he actually becomes a decent QB,because he is starting (as Sing puts it " for now "),and I want my team to have a decent QB ,so we can win games ! (until our only real future QB prospect gets ready,Nate Davis !).
 

by TIM___ on Feb 20, 2010 11:22 AM PST reply actions  

We all know that statistics often lie. As Mark Twain said
Also, the next person to quote that lies, damn lies, and statistics line gets banned.

Mark Twain DIED IN 1910!!! I don’t think he was talking about DVO-f’’in-A

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 20, 2010 11:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Some quotes are timeless ! Stats can be manipulated to say almost anything you want,from both sides of an arguement. We all know that.
I prefer the old eyeball test. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck than it is a bad QB,lol ! I don’t care if the ducks stats are better than another ducks stats in some catagorys.
It is obvious to see that Alex is not a natural talent but can only perform at a mediocre level with his robotic,faultering style .
Davis has the natural talent ( " it "). and a better arm than alex and is more accurate a passer and does everything better than alex to tell the truth.He just needs experience and a chance to play and make his mistakes and learn.

by TIM___ on Feb 20, 2010 11:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Stats can be presented in misleading or intentionally deceptive ways. But these aren’t being presented that way.

And I don’t see how you can talk about Nate Davis when nobody has ever seen him play “NFL” talent outside of the preseason and even the coaches haven’t seen him in a real practice.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 20, 2010 11:40 AM PST up reply actions  

as promised...

not going to tolerate people using this “stats can be manipulated” BS without specifically explaining to me how i’ve “manipulated” them and what reason i would have to lie using the stats. so, your turn, how have i “manipulated” the stats here and why would i to begin with?

you see, stats are numbers. they don’t say or do anything. the person who uses the stats is the one that’s saying or doing something. so when you say that “stats lie,” what you’re really doing is calling me a liar for using them. so, if you’re going to call me a liar, you better have some evidence to prove i’m lying.

by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Feb 20, 2010 12:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Your eyeball test is a failure.

Hate feeds on itself and grows into incredible overconfidence.

by CorneliusJ on Feb 20, 2010 5:22 PM PST up reply actions  

LOLOLOL hahaha

49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha

by 49erSalvatrucha on Feb 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Also, the good old eyeball test isn’t particularly reliable. Per example: how many colors do you see in this image?

Would you be surprised if I told you that there are only three? Because there are.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 20, 2010 11:33 AM PST up reply actions  

I refuse to believe it, and I exercise my right to not click on the link.

That’s pretty cool stuff though

Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.

by theghostofjasonellison on Feb 20, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions  

You're missing one

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

by SportsChicken on Feb 20, 2010 11:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Oops

You have an extra one.

Blue and Green are the same.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

by SportsChicken on Feb 20, 2010 11:35 PM PST up reply actions  

So Alex Smith is going to wear a teal color jersey this season?

by bignerd on Feb 20, 2010 5:19 PM PST up reply actions  

It's a false choice,to choose between Hill and smith

Truth be told,we have all known for years that neither Smith or Hill is our QB of the future(unless we want to be mediocre at the most important position on the field).

Either Nate Davis is the future or we will need to draft or trade for another QB to be THAT guy,period !!!
Alex HAS shown enough to cause me to hope he can become a good backup.if he keeps improving !

This is every pass play,good and bad,that Nate Davis participated in during preseason 2009… He has all the tools and intagebles (" it "),now he just needs to prove himself on the NFL playing field,as alex has not been able to do. Give Davis 40 starts in the NFL ,as Alex has already had and I bet he is at least twice the QB that alex is now,at least !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkRIYba7hdg

by TIM___ on Feb 20, 2010 11:32 AM PST reply actions  

It’s not a false choice because the question isn’t which one of the two will be our quarterback of the future. It’s which one of the two is better. And Alex Smith is obviously better. Or, at the very least, the offense is obviously better with Alex Smith.

Whether or not Nate Davis eclipses both of them is a question for another day. I honestly doubt he’s even in Shaun Hill’s league at the moment.

And I do support drafting another quarterback, given the right option in rounds 2-4-ish.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 20, 2010 11:35 AM PST up reply actions  

6 of one,half a dozen of the other.
Hill is the far superior football player over Alex but has no NFL arm. Alex can keep the defense more honest by being able to use the entire field(because he has an adequate arm). But in reality alex can’t deliever the ball on target with that arm any better than Hill,so what is the difference,except in the minds of the defense that know Hill can’t do that?
So it’s back to what we all know,Neither Alex or Hiull is the future. We just need to hope Alex can play his best until Davis or another good QB can take over for him.

by TIM___ on Feb 20, 2010 11:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Hill is the far superior football player over Alex but has no NFL arm.

Except he’s not. Smith is better with his arm. He’s better with his legs. He’s better in the pocket. He’s better for his running game. He’s capable of running more complex systems.

And I don’t know what about Hill’s 56% completion rate makes you think he was JUST AS ACCURATE as Smith. I know completion rate doesn’t measure hitting your receiver in stride… but it at least measures HITTING YOUR RECEIVER AT ALL.

Dangit, now you’ve got me all-capping. I don’t believe this.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 20, 2010 11:47 AM PST up reply actions  

????
Hill is the far superior football player over Alex

why, because you say so?

by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Feb 20, 2010 12:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Why are you being so stubborn?

You’re wrong.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

by SportsChicken on Feb 20, 2010 11:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Voted Other

Based on that first chart, let’s start that Brees guy.

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Feb 20, 2010 11:38 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Alex has had 40 starts in the NFL and has proven he is not very good. At least we have hope that Davis could be something special with 40 starts under his belt.
Davis has an abundance of raw talent and " it ". If the raw talent is refined then he will be the QB of the future for the Niners,no question. IF it is not refined and he fails ,like alex has so far,then we need another option to be brought onto the roster. It’s that simple.
Until then we had better hope Alex performs as well as he can,so our defense can win some games for us .
Sing stated that Alex is the starter “for now”,so he knows as we all know in our hearts,that alex is only a stopgap QB,until a real option as the long term starter is found.

by TIM___ on Feb 20, 2010 11:51 AM PST reply actions  

I have no problem accepting Smith as a stopgap option. That’s perfectly fine. As far as the Nate Davis talk goes, though, I’m outtie.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 20, 2010 11:53 AM PST up reply actions  

13 people have voted “other” but nobody has specified in the comments!

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 20, 2010 12:05 PM PST reply actions  

yes they have...

their preference is for the 49ers to start “Lies Damnedlies,” or at least that’s what I think they’re saying.

by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Feb 20, 2010 12:08 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m always surprised at how many people are so well- versed in Twain around here. I didn’t even see this kind of a well-read group when I was studying English at Cal!

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 20, 2010 12:32 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm one of those 13

And I will tell you why.
1. A Roger, I wanted him over Smith.
2. Even with all the issues he has had, He hasn’t shown the composure he needs to be a great QB.
3. Although his stats were better, he still had a losing record for this year and overall. Smith – 5-6 vs Hill – 3-2 . That’s is the botton Line no matter who fault it is ( Offense, Defense,ST or Coaches )
4. So, we have two QB that cann’t get it done and Rookie QB who is not ready. I’ve conceded that Smith will start next year and I don’t know if Hill be around. That leaves N. Davis has a potential Backup or do they draft another or get a decent backup ?
 Tthat is why I voted " Other "
.

by LASVEGASNINER on Feb 20, 2010 1:52 PM PST up reply actions  

First: Hill was 3-3 as a starter and Smith was 5-5.

Second: the poll doesn’t ask “will Alex Smith be great?” It asks “who should start in 2010?” Not 2011. Not 2012. Not 2018. 2010. The question is “who should start next year?” You seem to be responding to a different question altogether.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 20, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I would hope he doesn't mean 2010!

We had enough issues with a new OC, how much worse would it be to bring in a QB through FA? And talking about one through the draft is not worth anyone’s breath. Not in 2010 at least.

by Mangoman on Feb 20, 2010 3:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Please it all

" I’ve conceded that Smith wiil start next year " Next year means 2010 ! Please read it all before you make a comment. I responded to the Question " the 13 did not specified why ". So, I did repond correctly to a specific question !

by LASVEGASNINER on Feb 22, 2010 8:35 AM PST up reply actions  

But you said that you voted “other”. If saying that Smith should start in 2010 is the reason that you voted for somebody “other” than Smith to start in 2010, well that just doesn’t make any sense.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 22, 2010 3:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Florida Danny,

Is there a way to compare Smith overall career stats. Maybe from year to year or compare them to the avg. ( #16 ) QB rating overall. Would be interesting to see what he has done. Or any idea that would lead us to believe that he’s worthy or not? Cause I’m still not convince

by LASVEGASNINER on Feb 20, 2010 1:14 PM PST reply actions  

Florida Danny isn't trying to convince you that Smith is the QB of the future

or that he’ll be a great or even good QB. These stats in this post are showing one thing and one thing only and that is that Smith is better than Hill.

Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.

by smileyman on Feb 20, 2010 4:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Although the offense was better with Smith I’m not convinced it was because of Smith. The offense was better after the Hill/Smith transition but several changes were made during the Hill/Smith transition: Gore returned, Crabtree replaced Bruce, Battle was benched, Rachal/Synder improved and Raye got better dealing with his limited personnel.

by bignerd on Feb 20, 2010 5:37 PM PST reply actions  

one by one...

1)

Gore returned
actually, he returned in the HOU game, which was started by hill. we all know how well that went.

2)

Crabtree replaced Bruce
actually, he replaced morgan, who later replaced bruce. regardless, the WRs played second fiddle to VD the whole season. VD had nearly as many targets by himself as crabtree and morgan had combined.

3)

Battle was benched
ok, you just gave me a heart attack here. when was battle a starter this season? if you mean at punt/kick returner, actually he wasn’t benched at all. if you mean at #3 WR, see point #2 above.

4)

Rachal/Synder improved
actually, the niners’ OL was ranked #32 in run-blocking pretty much the entire season. in pass-blocking, they were near the bottom all season as well. also, you failed to mention that their best OL was lost for the rest of the year in smith’s 1st start.

5)

Raye got better dealing with his limited personnel
based on what?

don’t get me wrong, there are valid points to be made about smith being in a more favorable spot than hill. however, even if you don’t think smith’s higher talent level vis-a-vis hill was the reason for the OFF’s improvement, that still doesn’t mean smith receives zero credit. IMO, the best thing that happened to the 49ers was smith replacing hill, not because smith is necessarily a better QB; but becausee it forced them to switch to an NFL-caliber style of OFF. smith replacing hill was the catalyst for ending that JV 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust abomination that they were running with hill at QB. if nothing else, smith made the OFF better simply by virtue of removing the constraints that were necessary given hill’s limitations. as i’ve shown repeatedly, you can’t win in the NFL withouth being able to pass the ball. smith > hill at passing the ball. pass OFF with smith > pass OFF with hill. end of story.

by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Feb 20, 2010 6:56 PM PST up reply actions  

1) One half of football. More importantly the 1st half of football where the 49ers offense proved they sucked no matter who was QB.

2) Crabtree was significant upgrade to Bruce who was unofficially benched soon after. I will say Morgan became an invisible man because he had to switch positions mid-season. Probably the one advantage Hill had over Smith.

3) Battle was the quasi 2nd and 3rd receiver for the first few games. He wasn’t benched and sent to ruin punt return when Crabtree signed.

4) Rachal/Snyder where awful the entire season but got slightly less ranked #32 awful as the season wore on. Staley did get hurt, but his replacement played well in his absence. Sims didn’t even approach the embarrassment that was Rachal/Snyder/Baas the 1st half of the season.

5) Raye gave up on the 1.5 yards and cloud of dust offense. He gave up on the bootlegs, sweeps, slow developing play action, taser (because he knew his line couldn’t hold the blocks long enough) and started calling that seam pass to VD outside the red zone (which he figured out in desperation during the Houston game).

If the offense hadn’t plateaued in the final two games than I’d clearly feel Smith played better, but it was close to a Hill performance with a better cast.

by bignerd on Feb 20, 2010 11:42 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah but who has bigger hands!?!?!

A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.

by wjackalope on Feb 21, 2010 11:54 AM PST reply actions  

Troy Aikman is the correct answer to this.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 21, 2010 1:15 PM PST up reply actions  

actually

great stuff Danny – Smith is clearly the superior QB and has done enough to earn the starting role going into next season.

A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.

by wjackalope on Feb 21, 2010 11:55 AM PST reply actions  

idk

i think the team would be best suited for keeping options open for that spot. its a position on the team that simply struggles and needs to be improved.

by mdeasy on Feb 21, 2010 7:00 PM PST reply actions  

Here's the comment....

I applaud this fan post in that it gives statistical backing for your arguement that Smith is far better than Hill. However, the brass tacks of the situation is that NEITHER Hill not Smith is The guy for the Niners. Now, or in the future. Smith has shown promise….but so did Akili Smith at one point. And we have all seen how far that put the Bengals franchise. The point is that no matter what the stats say, the Niners need to move on from both guys. Either try out Davis and let’s see what he has to offer or go out and draft/ pick up a free agent. don’t get me wrong. I’m not the kinda guy who says simply get rid of the bum without first evaluating what he has to offer. But, Alex has shown he simply can’t do it. And anyone who thought for a minute that Hill was going to be the overall answer was diluded. (I include myself in this as I campained for Hill over Alex, based on the need for the team to have a game manager.) But, I digress. As I have said before, the time to strike for the Niners is now. The NFC is one of the weaker divisions right now and doesn’t need a powerhouse to win. Not only that, but looking at the success of other teams we used to leave in the dust that have now over taken us, such as: New York (Jets), Atlanta, Baltimore, and Houstan. All these franchises have moved forward well with younger QB’s and are postioning themselves to push hard aat the playoffs. Why should San Fran miss out by sticking with 2 guys who can’t get it done? This is the NFL, and the only statistic that counts…..is winning.

K.C.Edwards -AKA- "THE" DarkkStarr

by DarkkStarr1 on Feb 23, 2010 7:10 AM PST reply actions  

a couple of problems with this argument

1 – we still need more time to evaluate Smith. This coming season will be the first time he will go into a season with a consistent offensive scheme, with the same core group of players, and being fully healthy. If he doesn’t take another large step forward this season then we can say we’ve seen all we’re going to see from him.

2 –

the time to strike for the Niners is now. The NFC is one of the weaker divisions right now and doesn’t need a powerhouse to win

this is exactly why changing QBs to Davis, a rookie, or a FA signing would be detrimental to our chances. Having another QB learn the system and take time to get familiar with the receivers will only slow our progress.

3 –

All these franchises have moved forward well with younger QB’s

Smith is still pretty young and performed just about as well if not better than some of the QBs you mentioned – no time to look up the stats at the moment but I’m pretty sure Smith and Ryan had similar lines this year, and I would bet that Flacco and Sanchez were pretty close as well.

A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.

by wjackalope on Feb 23, 2010 8:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Numbers can be deceiving

Alex Smith padded his numbers late in games he lost and in wins over Detroit and St. Louis. He also threw bad passes and bad interceptions that lost the games against Tennessee and Seattle and ended our playoff run.

Shaun Hill is no star but he beat Arizona with Gore running for 30 yards and won at Minnesota with Coffee running for 54 yards. His worst game was against Atlanta, in that game our leading rusher was Hill with 53 yards.

Watch the actual games and you will see Smith blowing games. He almost blew the Chicago game despite 5 Cutler INTs and a 104 yards and 1 TD from Frank Gore

by Michael Wright on Feb 23, 2010 5:17 PM PST reply actions  

numbers

I wouldn’t say Hill beat the Cardinals. I’d say he didn’t lose the game. He didn’t perform poorly, but he wasn’t exactly spectacular. And he didn’t win at Minnesota, as much as we all would prefer otherwise.

by David Fucillo on Feb 23, 2010 6:06 PM PST up reply actions  

just a note

that last drive of the game was hill. when the team needed it he did march us down there, and get us the victory i think he does deserve some credit there.

by mdeasy on Feb 24, 2010 3:30 AM PST up reply actions  

i agree

alex looked better in games when he was down by alot didnt look very impressive to me otherwise.

by mdeasy on Feb 24, 2010 3:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Smith & Hiil PLEASE get rid of them both!

Neither of the two will get the Niners to a Championship PERIOD!!! Honestly, What we need is a leader as the QB. Not a couple of backup’s. I picked other, if I could choose I would pick Tebow up in the 2nd round, and a FA someone like Anderson or Culpepper. The reason being Tebow is a leader and has proved himself time and time again. A veteran QB would help greatly with the transition to the NFL for both Davis and Tebow. I’d say start Davis take the training wheels off and lets see what he can do after a couple games. If that doesn’t work out you’ve got the other two to step in. I know it sounds like last year all over again. I’m just tired of the idea that Smith or Hill is the future of this team cuz there NOT people! I think we need some new blood in there to give new life to our team. Smith has had plenty of time and money to get it right. Now it’s time for him to GO!!! I honestly believe Tebow would be a great asset to the team.

by Docotis on Feb 25, 2010 5:43 PM PST reply actions  

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