Ndamukong Suh A Bust In The Making? History Says YES!!!
Fooch's Note: Whether you agree with the conclusions, this is a great FanPost, so I figured it was worth moving to the front page.
The more and more I read about Ndamukuog Suh, the more i like him. Yet I am happy the 49ers are not in position to draft him. History works against drafting interior linemen in the top 10 of the 1st round and it is extremely possible that despite his college dominance and freakish athletic ability, Suh may end up a bust. Yes I said it, A BUST. Do I think he will? NO!!! Yet NFL Drafts do have a way of trending together over the seasons. Examples include when multiple QB's go in the top 5, one is almost destined to become a bust, the other is taking guards in the 1st half of the first round and the other would be interior linemen on the defensive side.
Fooch's Note: I've moved the rest of it after the jump...
In 1990 Cortez Kennedy was selected by the Seahawks two picks ahead of Junior Seau and well before Emmitt Smith. Although Kennedy had an okay NFL career his selection wasn't warranted with the 3rd overall pick. Meanwhile, both Seau and Smith ended up becoming perennial pro bowlers and future Hall of Famers.
In 1991 Russell Maryland was selected with the 1st overall pick in a draft that ended up being laden with busts, including Dan McGwire and Todd Marinovich. Maryland did end up having a decent NFL career and even received a couple Super Bowl rings, but in terms of what you expect from the #1 overall selection he didn't live up to expectations.
In 1992, Sean Gilbert was selected by the Rams with the 3rd overall pick. He ended up not making one single pro bowl. Despite that fact, Gilbert was drafted ahead of Troy Vincent in what ended up to be the 2nd extremely thin draft class in 3 years.
In 1994, Dan Wilkinson was drafted as the 1st overall pick and ended up being an incredible bust. The irony behind this is the fact that our own San Francisco 49ers selected Bryant Young, another interior linemen, just a few picks later. To add insult to injury Marshall Faulk was the 2nd overall pick
Teams strayed away from defensive tackles for 5 years after the bust that was "big daddy" until the Cleveland Browns selected Courtney Brown with the 1st pick in the 2000 draft. Even then Brown wasn't considered a true DT and ended up playing DE for the better part of his pedestrian career
2001 took on a little bit different of a theme as two DT's were selected in the top 10. Gerard Warren (3rd by Cleveland) and Richard Seymour (6th by New England), although in this case neither really played the DT position. Of the two Seymour has had a great career, but as a defensive end. Warren had his moments but really never lived up to the 3rd pick billing.
Ryan Sims was selected by the Chiefs with the 6th pick of the 2002 draft. He ended up being an absolute bust and the last time I heard about him he was low on the Tampa Bay Buccaneers depth chart. In terms of John Henderson, who was selected by the Jaguars with the 9th pick, he has been a darn good NFL player. However, keep in mind that I am speaking solely about the top DT taken in each draft.
The New York Jets selected Dewayne Robertson with the 4th overall pick in the 2004 draft. Robertson, a bust in the true sense of the word, is no longer even in the NFL
Of the last 5 NFL drafts only Sedrick Ellis who was selected in 2006 by the Jets has panned out. In some cases it is too early to tell whether or not a certain player will be worth his selection. I really don't see Amobi Okaye panning out, as neither have shown much in their first couple seasons in the NFL. My point is of any position, DT has the worse track record in regards to the 1st player selected at each position in the NFL draft. While other great defensive tackles such as Kevin Williams, Pat Williams, Jamal Williams, Aubrayo Franklin, Jay Ratliff etc... have been selected way further down in the draft.
QB busts usually get the most notice because of the position, but in general the most risky top five pick would have to be a defensive tackle. I mean this list is absolutely filled with busts. From Shawn Gilbert to Dewayne Robertson it is a laundry list of players that failed to live up to expectations. In some cases, such as Robertson the selectee was an outright failure. So when thinking about the difference between Suh and say Terrence Cody, reference this list and see where the value of waiting until later in the draft may come in. I understand that some of these players listed had decent careers, but is that what you're looking for with a top pick? That's is not what I am looking for. So for once I am glad the 49ers are not in the position of the St. Louis Rams who select 1st or the Tampa Bay Buccaneers who select 3rd, or even the Detroit Lions who most likely will take either Suh or Mccoy depending on the 1st pick.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
54 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Wow.
Scary stuff for fans of top 5 #1 pick teams to know.
"Alex Smith doesn't inspire the Offensive Line to play well." - Random Troll on Post-Game Thread
Top 5 picks are scary things
which is why owners want rookie wage scales so bad.
With Suh the consensus is that he’s the best D-line prospect to come along in years. Mel Kiper says he’s the best prospect he’s seen in 32 years of covering the draft. That’s pretty high praise, so maybe he’ll be the exception to the rule.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
Let Me Make It Clear
I don’t think Suh will be a bust, this dude is an absolute beast. Yet again the same was said about Dan Wilkinson and look how that turned out. I didn’t hear what Kiper said about Suh, that is pretty high praise indeed. Especially coming from an analyst i have come to respect a great deal over the last few years.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Feb 21, 2010 4:10 PM PST reply actions
great diary, nocal
I am personally glad the Niners have a pick a little later this year, early picks seem to be salary cap busters
They're called RUNS for a reason.
Interesting research
First off, this is a great example of a FanPost. It’s a topic that probably doesn’t affect the 49ers (since the odds are likely none and none of them moving up to grab him), but it’s a great take on the subject, and I’d imagine most folks would find it interesting.
Great post
If I’m the rams, it shouldn’t be hard to make a decision here. Since that team needs an upgrade on every position except for RB, priority should be on drafting someone who they know will produce right away. And I’m sure there are plenty of players like that in the upcoming draft. With that, I think the smart thing would be to trade away this number one overall pick for two other 1st round draft picks, or something of similar value. Again, the rams are absolutely god awful in almost every position you can think of. They need upgrades everywhere.
The original poster mentioned that several of the game’s best nfl interior lineman have been drafted later in the draft, so that in itself should tell the rams a little something about drafting suh #1 overall.
by Waiting4JoshMorgan on Feb 21, 2010 5:25 PM PST reply actions
I know this is super nazi-ish, but...
if you’re going to move a post like this to the front page, Fooch, then the least you can do is clear up some of the blindingly obvious spelling/grammar errors that plague it. Even when there is worthwhile insight, it’s hard to take it serious when it’s surrounded by grammar school English errors.
I know, dick move on my part. Just saying.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
by shlecko on Feb 21, 2010 6:24 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
changes
I made some adjustments to make it a bit more read-able. Not everything is grammatically correct, but it’s enough to be understood. I didn’t have time early to make changes.
by David Fucillo on Feb 21, 2010 6:49 PM PST up reply actions
+1
I voted for “your crazy” only because it obviously should have been “you’re crazy”
Why buy the cow, when you get the sex for free?
by return2greatness on Feb 22, 2010 6:37 AM PST up reply actions
Thankyou Nocal81, superb material, I think Fooch and our new set of moderators are spoiling us.
When talking about draft picks in the top 5, I think it is more of the fault of the team and what they are evaluating and who’s doing the evaluation. We bombed our #1 overall in 05, mainly due to the rookie wage for top ten picks. If the money wasn’t a guaranteed investment the Niners and plenty other teams wouldn’t stick to the trenches and QB’s in these spots. I hope something is done about the rookie wage scale. When Matt Ryan brings in more money than Tom Brady, there is an issue.
Tribute to #42 Ronnie Lott
I give you credit for the write up
Real good work here.
Personally, I see Suh playing similar to Warren Sapp. I don’t think he should be the #1 pick (The Rams should take a QB, the Lions need a franchise LT), but I think Suh will have a very good career.
good post
but i just dont see Suh struggling too much in the NFL, i can see him possibly being an average player but nothing less than that
It's just a plant, it grows in the earth, and if you happen to set it on fire there are some effects...
Ellis...
Sedrick was drafted by the Saints… Shawn plays for the Jets right? Just saying… Good article…
what the hell is this box for?
Ellis
He’s a beast though.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 22, 2010 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
Decent article except for...
In 1990 Cortez Kennedy was selected by the Seahawks two picks ahead of Junior Seau and well before Emmitt Smith. Although Kennedy had an okay NFL career his selection wasn’t warranted with the 3rd overall pick.
Kennedy was a beast winning Defensive MVP in ’92, 8 time Pro Bowler and Finalist for Hall of Fame in ’09.
Agreed, as a Seahawks fan, calling him anywhere NEAR a bust is a travesty.
Look at his wikipedia page. He was a pro bowler in 8 out of 9 seasons! He was a finalist for the Hall of Fame last year. Sports Illustrated him the greatest NFL player to ever wear the #96. (Sorry for the repeats of what Josh said, but it had to be re-emphasized).
Dream Draft: Clausen, Brown (#24), Houston, McKnight, Mike Williams, Black, McManis, DTN.
I was gonna comment on this too
4 time all pro, DPOY, and a bust?
by microwave donut on Feb 22, 2010 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
I also took issue with this
but the rest is solid
by foosball4949 on Feb 22, 2010 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
Funny how things can be subjective....
Nocal thought he was a so-so pick….Clayton with ESPN thinks it was good pick. Goes so far as to call him a GREAT one.
“Drafting defensive tackles among the top five picks usually leads to disappointment; the last great one drafted that early was Cortez Kennedy (Seahawks) in 1990.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft10/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=4935397
I did basically the same post at www.mockingthedraft.com
BUT DID YOU KNOW THAT DT HAS ONLY GONE 1ST OVERALL 7 TIMES SINCE 1936??!!
So DT has gone 1st overall ~10% of the time?
That seems like a reasonable amount, maybe even a bit high.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
Further
Especially considering how prominent QB and HB are in the draft, that makes DT the 3rd or 4th most drafted position at #1 overall.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
Suh had two knee surgeries in College, no?
Oooooh.
It should also be noted that the Rams have gone with the “safe” pick the past few years.
It has bitten them in the butt every single time.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
How so?
2009—-Jason Smith. Not worked out yet but it’s a tough transition and tackle is a spot that can bust easy
2008—Chris Long. Starting DE
2007—Adam Carriker. He’s a bust
2006—Tye Hill CB. Bust
2005—Alex Barron. Starting LT for them.
49ers
2009—Crabtree
2008—Balmer. Close to being a bust
2007—Patrick Willis. Man beast
2006—Vernon Davis and Manny Lawson. Davis is just coming into his own. Lawson isn’t justifying his first round status
2005—Alex Smith. Not living up to his first round status.
Rams are 2/5, 49ers are 3/5. Not much better I’d say.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
STL picks suck
Long – average DE at best, nowhere near #2 pick value
Carriker and Hill are busts
Alex barron – one of the worst starting tackles in the league
You’re also selling Lawson a bit short. He hasnt been the pass rusher people expected, but he’s otherwise a very solid OLB. No shame in picking him with a mid 1st round pick.
Chris Long
I think he will be above average soon. In two seasons, he’s had 9 sacks and 2 Fumbles Forced. Defensive Line takes time sometimes and he has showed a lot of upside for being on a defensive line where he doesn’t get much help.
If they do end up drafting Suh next year, I think you will see Long’s sack total go in to double-digits next season.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
Yup
D-line takes an average of 2 years to become an effective starter. With some help on the other side the Rams D-line would be fearsome.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
But that's not what they were expecting when they drafted Long.
They expected an instant sensation, or at least a Mario Williams-like performance.
He’s shown some flashes but in a re-draft I don’t think he would be drafted in the top 10 again.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 22, 2010 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
I think you could say that about most top 10 draft prospects
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
most?
I wouldn’t say that about Mario Williams, Jake Long, Matt Ryan, Joe Thomas, etc.
Compare the top 10 of any draft to the any other 10 draft slots and I’m sure that the top 10 will have more “stars”
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 23, 2010 1:10 PM PST up reply actions
but we're not comparing the top 10 of the first round to the top 10 of the 2nd
Completely different expectations for the two rounds.
I’m gonna do some research and see what the probability of bust is for the top 10. Should make for an interesting article
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
I'm looking foward to it.
It still won’t prove that Chris Long has lived up to expectations though.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 24, 2010 2:48 PM PST up reply actions
Jason Smith has had concussion problems (and we all know how people here feel about that——hint: Jahvid Best).
-He also played very poorly as a rookie.
Chris Long has in no way lived up to expectations though. Matt Ryan would have been a much better selection….although Marc Bulger wasn’t that bad in 2007-2008.
I was thinking back to 2006 only though…..Although Barron doesn’t help your argument (he’s not very good).
They have passed on Matt Ryan and Mark Sanchez and ended up with an under achieving DE and an OT who’s future is yet to be determined (doesn’t look so bright anymore).
Since you brought the 49ers into this:
Crabtree: We don’t know, but the future looks very bright.
Balmer: I’m calling him a bust.
Willis: BUST, lol JK
Staley (you forgot him): He’s very good and well worth his late 1st round selection.
Davis: Tough call, he was the 6th overall pick….however, he just tied an NFL record so I’m going to say that he’s a hit.
Lawson: Come on dude. He was the 22nd overall pick. If he was a top 15 pick then you’d have a point. But I don’t mind spending the 22nd overall pick on a LB that is very good in coverage, good/great against the run, and above average as a pass rusher.
I agree 100% on Alex Smtih
So (not counting 2009):
Rams: 0-4
49ers: 4-6
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 22, 2010 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
If you hit a good record then you are not a bust.
by manraj7 on Feb 22, 2010 3:14 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Davis..a thought
While I’ll admit it’s taken a bit of time for him to become a “star” at receiving, isn’t he also noted as being one of the best at blocking of any of the “receiving tight ends”? So when you take that into account that’s just an added benny. I remember watching Top Ten Tight Ends and even some of those they were saying “Can’t or won’t block his way out of a paper bag”. So to have a guy that is good block and good receiving sounds like (pardon the pun) a catch.
I could be wrong in that.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Feb 22, 2010 4:40 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think you
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 23, 2010 1:10 PM PST up reply actions
ack!
I don’t think you’re wrong.
I think he’s easily a top 5 NFL TE.
Of course some people would like to see a little more consistency.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 23, 2010 1:12 PM PST up reply actions
Sean Gilbert made the pro bowl in 1993.
The next big time DT after Wilkinson was Darrell Russell (#2) 1997. He was an animal on the field, but liked drugs a lot.
Sedrick Ellis was selected and plays for the Saints.
Kevin Williams was selected “way further down”? Dude was taken 9th overall in 2003.
by microwave donut on Feb 22, 2010 12:00 PM PST reply actions
Jackson yes, Raji..hmmm
I’m not sure they got Raji as an immediate replacement but an eventual replacement of Pickett. Pickett is just 30 and NT’s usually go to like 33 or so. Letting him learn under Pickett then take over. But LOL next year that tune may change.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Feb 22, 2010 5:53 PM PST up reply actions
I know, not fair.
I don’t have a lot of faith in Raji but he was suppose to start this season or challenge the starters. I think Raji cashed in on one big season his senior year of college, the DT to take was Ron Brace.
He got Raji drafted at #9.
Actually Brace is a in good spot underneath Belichick while Raji is behind a starter with huge expectations on his shoulders.
He's likely going to be Wilfork's replacement.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 23, 2010 1:13 PM PST up reply actions
I believe in Raji
But I didn’t like how GB always played him at DE instead of NT.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 23, 2010 1:13 PM PST up reply actions
Comparing the two positions NT doesn’t seem like a good fit for Raji:
NT – job is to get beat on but hold your position at the point of attack
DE – not saying they don’t get beat up but generally they are the aggressor trying to make the play.
At BC Raji was the guy they turned lose to make a play while Brace was the guy holding the fort down.
I'm not so sure history says yes
First of all, what constitutes a bust? Is a player chosen in the top 5, who’s a starter for 8+ years of their career, but not a probowler, a bust? I don’t think so. They might not have lived up to expectations, but I wouldn’t consider a player like that a bust. Also, with any position I think it’s posible to cherry pick players who were chosen high but didn’t live up to their lofty expectations. How ofter are DT taken in the top 5 and what percentage have had great careers, average careers, and bust careers? Those percentages would be more telling in determining if choosing a DT high is a risky pick. I thought it was a good read, and their was a lot of good information. I’m just not convinced that taking a DT in the top 5 is as risky as taking a QB, WR, or Safety, which are positions that have traditionally had problems transitioning to the NFL.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
Bust should be judgemental and not standardized
I believe Justin Smith was the #3 overall pick some years ago. He just made the Pro Bowl this season as an alternate, does the lack of Pro Bowls make him a bust? No, because he is a beast.
Brian Westbrook would be another example
He’s only been to two Pro Bowls, but he’s been one of the best RBs in the NFL over the last decade. That’s the problem I have with the post. Some of the players listed as busts have had solid careers. They might not have lived up to expectations, but they can hardly be considered busts.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
I would add Aundray Bruce to the bust list
He was picked #1 by the Falcons the same year Tim Brown was drafted.
i know because ive seen
being born and raised in sanfrancisco i moved 2 portland oregon when i was 22 been here over a decade and some more so ive known about suh since he was in high school he’s a very hard worker and he has the best foot speed ive seen in a while he playec soccer growing up until he out grew the game , yea its a high risk and i really think alot of people feel since its st. lous with the pick he’s destined 2 be a bust now howie long’s son 2 me was a over achiever with a good motor .Now 4 me i’m hoping he’s a bust because we have 2 see him twice a year or either detroit picks him but i’m sorry 2 say i think he will do fine in the N.F.L
Defensive tackles picked in the first round
since 2002 have a 60% bust rate. This holds true even for top 10 picks.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
Wow
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 24, 2010 2:49 PM PST up reply actions

by 









































