Manning Falling Short = Montana Legacy Intact?
by kiyoshi on Feb 8, 2010 12:01 PM PST
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Last night, within seconds of Manning throwing the clinching interception, I received the following series of text messages from my friend Nate (a die hard 49ers fan like myself):
"Yes!"
(30 seconds later)
"Manning is no Montana!"
(15 seconds later)
"Legacy intact baby!"
As I received these messages, it occurred to me that I had subconsciously also been hoping for Manning to fail. In the past few months the buzz for Manning being the best QB of all time has been rising. He is indeed one of the greats. But over the past few weeks in the lead up to the superbowl that talk started to annoy me. The idea that anyone would take the place of the beloved Montana as the consensus best QB ever feel like taking something away from me, as a fan.
This raises two questions that I would like to pose to the community. First, am I alone? Or did many other 9er fans (like those that visit this site) feel a sense of satisfaction in Manning ever so slightly tarnishing his best-QB-ever resume? Second, is this emotion petty, or is it a legitimate expression of fandom? Is it wrong to root for a great player to stumble just to preserve a cherished memory/bragging point?
What does everyone think?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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I’m not going to judge or condemn anybody else for wanting Manning to fail in order to preserve the Joe Montana legacy as GQBOAT, but the whole issue kind of bores me. The thought that Montana wasn’t the best of all time really, really doesn’t bother me. He was obviously one of the greatest of all time, and that completely satisfies me. While he was here, the franchise enjoyed an unprecedented level of success, not only for the franchise but in some ways for the entire league. That completely satisfies me. It doesn’t bother me that he might not be the arbitrary leader of an unbelievably subjective list.
I also really respect what Manning does. I understand why people don’t like him, but his work ethic is veritably Rice-ian, and he does things on the field that quarterbacks haven’t done in years. From calling many of his own plays to making the adjustments on offense himself, the man really is a remarkable quarterback in almost every sense of the phrase. And I think he deserves to be in or around the conversation.
It bothers me that Super Bowl victories have so much weight in the question of greatest ever, and I’ve always found it laughable that Super Bowl victories alone seem to be the criteria for a GQBOAT. It’s the reason that some truly unbelievably quarterbacks get so little attention anymore. Even Dan Marino is a near-forgotten name. He’s barely spoken of in terms of the top 10 QBs of all time, much less the top 5. And he’s probably the rightful owner of the top 5 spot. How many people remember how good Fran Tarkenton was? If the question was Tarkenton or Unitas, I bet 100% of people would take Unitas even though Tarkenton was arguably the better player during his time. Tarkenton, like Marino, is barely recognized among the top 10 all time, when he’s also probably a top 5 contender.
And when all is said and done, I think that Manning’s body of work will be so overwhelming that it would be almost inexcusable to keep him out of the top 5 conversation. But if he doesn’t get another Super Bowl victory or two, the sad truth is that he’ll probably be lucky to even enter the conversation.
I wasn’t rooting against Manning. As of today, I’m actually glad that the Saints won, because I think they truly deserved to win the game based on their superior talent, skill, and level of coaching. But I wasn’t rooting against Manning. I think it would be an honor not only for Manning, but also for Montana, for the two to be spoken of in the same breath. And I think it’s extremely unfortunate that something as near-arbitrary and something as dependent on so many other players and factors as a Super Bowl victory will play such an important part in how a player like Peyton Manning is remembered once his career is long over.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Feb 8, 2010 12:22 PM PST reply actions 7 recs
very well said howie
you are on a roll today
"The Football The 49ers Team has The excitement of the bear, the velocity of the deer and strenght of the buffalo.
Manning calls virtually every single play
The OC radios in “suggestions” for Manning but he’s the one in charge.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
Did Manning tell you this?
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 9, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions
Manning is my BFF
I’ve got a direct number to his house and his cell which is why I know this stuff.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
I've heard it alot too.
I was just trying to give him a hard time.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 9, 2010 9:59 PM PST up reply actions
sorry
its hard for me to feel empathy towards manning. yes he’s great. also the league is on his jock harder than they were on favre’s jock this season. i’m tired of hearing about manning/brady. they’re both great. neither will surpass montana though. ….and i’d still take steve young over both of em as well.
"There is no pressure. Pressure only exists when you're not prepared."
-The Samurai
Alex Smith is garbage...
Manning has great commercials so I would not have been upset if he won.
I am easily pleased.
I chose water over wine... Jars of formaldehyde... think of all the things I missed... Why'd you make me a scientist?
This hurts Manning, sure...
But its a team loss as much as it would be a team win. Manning did improve his numbers during the playoffs, which wasn’t that hard, but his 9 – 9 recored leaves something to be desired.
Manning still has..4 – 6 years left in the NFL and could easily win 2 SB’s in that time. Now he’s 3 – 1 and people have forgotten about this one pass. Then on top of that he’s possibly broken every Favre record (except the INT’s) and pushes himself closer to the top for the GQBOAT.
He’s still got a chance to pass Montana. Its completely possible.
I’ve already said that Manning is going to go down as the greatest QB of all time and that’s passing both Young and Montana in my list.
The problem is that in 4-6 more years, Manning can't undo this mistake.
When you think about memorable plays from great QBs, this is going to be near the top of Manning’s list.
Just like you can’t talk about Farve without talking about his two late-game season-ending INTs in the postseason (this year, and in his last game for the Pack) I don’t think you can talk about Manning anymore without talking about he choked, big time, in this game. (And it wasn’t just the pick – the end of the 3rd quarter was damaging. And on that final drive he was pretty mortal.)
This is doubly damaging because it fits the narrative of him: he can’t win under pressure. I mean, he was arguably the greatest college QB of all time … and yet his team got better after he left.
Heck, one could even argue that Addai’s running had more to do with the Colt’s first quarter lead than Manning’s play.
Obviously, it’s conceivable that Manning’s reputation could recover. But what are his signature plays? The most memorable play from his super bowl season was a drop by a Patriot receiver in the AFC title game.
Statistical comparisons between eras are tricky, because the game has changed. Montana’s stats, put up today, wouldn’t be that impressive – the rule changes have allowed modenr QBs to obliterate older records. Therefore, a big part of the reason Montana is remember as the greatest ever is that he was best when it mattered most: The NFC title game against Dallas, and that final super bowl drive against Cincy.
It’s not like Montana never lost as a favorite in the playoffs – trust me, I’ll never forget that Minnesota game – but it’s very hard to look at his losses in the postseason and feel like they were caused primarily by his mistakes. Instead you see his o-line being destroyed (the MN game), or Roger Craig fumbling.
Manning’s post-season failures, on the other hand, look a lot like they’re Manning’s fault. That int happened because HE was predictable. He’s supposed to be smarter than anyone else, that’s his great strength. His other postseason failures, too, are often games where HE just hasn’t been the guy you expect, while his team has otherwise been who you think they are.
So, at this point, I don’t think even two more SB victories get Manning back into the conversation unless he does it with epic heroics, and comes up with plays as memorable as “The Catch” or Montana-to-Taylor.
He does that, we’ll talk. But I won’t hold my breath waiting.
by Ronaldinho on Feb 8, 2010 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd for truth
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
The INT in this game
was as much on Reggie Wayne not running a crisp route was it was on Peytong being baited into that throw.
Wayne also dropped a TD pass in this game.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
I dunno...
I kinda think Peyton threw the ball about 2 feet wide.
When Wayne was coming out of his break, did he slip? Did Wayne do something to mess up the timing? Do you think he saw Porter and stopped running?
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 9, 2010 9:39 AM PST up reply actions
I’ve said it a few times, but I’ll say it again. I really think that play was a joint effort. Wayne made a really awful break on what was obviously timing play. I mean, he almost just stands in place for a full second before coming out of his break. On top of that, Manning’s throw was definitely wide, so even if Wayne had made a good break on the play, he might not have caught it. On top of that, Porter made a great read and took a really excellent jump on the ball.
If Manning places the ball better, Porter probably still picks it off because of Wayne’s poor route. However, if Wayne runs a decent route, he probably has a chance to break up the interception. AND if both Wayne and Manning had executed the play correctly, it could have very well been a reception.
It was definitely a group effort.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Feb 9, 2010 10:07 AM PST up reply actions
The older we get
the more we want the guys who played during our youth to be the best.
I’m so out of touch, I still think Bobby Lane was the second best ever, after Montana. I loved watching Lane terrorize everyone on the field: the other team, his own team (especially his OL), both coaches, heck, even the fans.
The only QB close to definitively dethroning Montana in the SB era is Brady. Brady still has a chance to catch Joe. The Patriots are now a young team, if can help mold that young group in a champion Ala Joe with the late 80’s squad than Brady might be the favored G.O.A.T. The last stage success of a career is the only thing Brady hasn’t duplicated. Like Joe, he now has a young team and serious questions about his health to overcome.
I see Manning more like Unitas. Won one, lost another with a fantastic career as both QB and coach role on the team.
I like Manning more than Brady though...
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 8, 2010 1:59 PM PST up reply actions
Not me...
Brady is a Bay Area product…grew up a Niners fan. Poo on Manning.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
The problem with Brady is that he doesn’t rep his home town of San Mateo (where I’m at).
He usually reps Michigan.
That’s not true. I have heard him talk about growing up a Niners fan and watching Montana, modeling his game after him, etc. In fact, I can’t recall him talking about Michigan much… I am not saying he doesn’t but I think he is proud of where he grew up and loves the Bay Area still to this day.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
He's turned into a bit of a d-bag
I liked him when he won his first ring.
Maybe it’s because of Bellichik, but I just don’t like Brady anymore.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 8, 2010 4:50 PM PST up reply actions
His head has got bigger and I don’t like how he points to the refs everytime he gets tackled or hit as he just barely releases a pass…I’ll admit that. But I still like him better than Manning. And I support him more because he did play HS Football in California and grew up there. Same reason I support and like MJD and other players from the Bay Area.
My favorite QB in the NFL right now is Alex Smith and I hope he turns it around for us and can be what we thought he could when we drafted him.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
brady is just another jerk to come out of serra. Seriously, that high school is filed with spoiled arrogant kids. After tonight, I reflected on the other great QBs in NFL history. In all honesty, every legendary QB since the merger has either a history of choking or was the product of more dominate players success, outside of Joe Montana, so I really dont think Manning losing is that damaging to his legacy
It is said that Patrick Willis was genetically engineered from the DNA of Chuck Norris and Black Jesus.
Um, wait a second.
In all honesty, every legendary QB since the merger has either a history of choking or was the product of more dominate players success, outside of Joe Montana,
Are you forgetting that Montana spent a great deal of his career throwing the ball to the best wide receiver to ever play the game?
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I try keeping them both in perspective
Neither are 49ers so eff’em.
I’m much a bigger fan of evaluating QBs by post season success over the regular season statistics. I’ve seen both Joe Montana and Steve Young. Steve was a great QB but he was no Joe Montana. The 49ers a lost a lot of the playoff games to the Packers because of the offense, not defense. That is where I think Steve fell flat in his career.
I wouldn't mind Manning becoming the GQBOAT
He’s a great QB.
Montana brought 4 SBs to the 49ers, I don’t care what other fans think of him.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
I don't buy this whole train of thought
It doesn’t make much sense to try to name a Greatest Whatever Of All Time. Besides, the game has changed in a lot of ways, which means you can’t make fair comparisons. There have been many great players, and if you can recognize and remember that, the emergence of other great ones later on doesn’t make them less great.
by Rabbit T on Feb 8, 2010 2:31 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Suck it Manning
Although I still think he is better than Brady.
SUCK IT PEYTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
...Of course.
Brady is nothing compared to Manning. Brady had a coaching staff of cheaters and defensive players who knew what offense their opponents would play every Sunday. But either way, there is only one Joe Montana and even Manning would not have lived up to Montana’s ranks. There is no need to say “suck it Peyton” because that’s simply being rude and making it as though you believe that Peyton could have possibly been better than Joe, which is obviously untrue.
Jason Hill supporter 'til the end
Regardless of how the defense got it done, Brady is the most overrated Qb in the history of Sports, next to the Steelers QB of the 70's.
SUCK IT PEYTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I say Suck it Peyton, because I don't like him as a player.
The Sports world is ready to give him so much credit for this and for that. he was handed a superbowl MVP, and handed an MVP to share with McNair. he is given so much credit for being cerebral, yet he didn’t figure out he needed to run the damn ball vs the Saints.
SUCK IT PEYTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
they did run the ball...
They Outgained the Saints both on the ground and the air.
Remember that 1 and 10 inside the 20 right before halftime??
They ran it 3 times and went 3 and out…
Can't wait for Alex Smith to shine and build his legacy
anyways, Peyton’s great, but Montana’s the best. end of discussion. Montana made such great plays in every super bowl, and THAT drive against the bengals solidified it
Montana=G.O.A.T.
OWENS! OWENS! OWENS! OWENS!
- Joe Starkey
by 9ersDubsGiantSharks on Feb 8, 2010 4:11 PM PST reply actions
Can’t wait for Alex Smith to shine and build his legacy
LOL
This made my day.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 8, 2010 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
lol
made mine too……scares me how delusional 9er fans are.
"There is no pressure. Pressure only exists when you're not prepared."
-The Samurai
Alex Smith is garbage...
Yup
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Feb 8, 2010 7:00 PM PST up reply actions
Montana may not be the G.O.A.T. QB
However, Joe has led his team to 4 wins in the Super Bowl (without a loss), he owns 3 SB MVP awards and has never thrown an INT in the biggest game of the season. From a historically statistical standpoint, Montana may not be the G.O.A.T at the QB position. From a Super Bowl standpoint, it’s hard to dethrone a guy that has 3 MVPs and 0 INTs while never suffering defeat.
There’s no denying that Montana has a great Super Bowl resume, and that no other QB has displayed that type of dominance or consistency in terms of success and accolades.
GSBQBOAT
Looks like gibberish….
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 8, 2010 11:33 PM PST up reply actions
I was thinking
greatest super bowl performer, regardless of position.
by Andrew Davidson on Feb 9, 2010 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
That's why he is Joe Cool
I am saddened I was too young to enjoy Montana in his prime, especially in the big games. My most memorable 49ers game to date was “The Catch II” against the Packers in the playoffs followed by that epic comeback against the Giants also in the playoffs.
Win the inning.
by Scooter Ellis on Feb 10, 2010 12:35 AM PST up reply actions
Peyton 9-9
Joe 16-7
Elway 14-7
Brady 14-4
Favre 13-11
Marino 8-10
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 9, 2010 9:53 AM PST reply actions
That’s just a lot of blah blah blah to me.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Feb 9, 2010 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
Aside from the record
Look at the actual numbers. In 2-3 more playoff games he’s going to pass Montana for yards during the playoffs.
He has better numbers than Brady across the board.
When do we finally blame the team, the drops, The D. Sure the Pick wasn’t exactly what the Colts were hoping for but the Colts loss was not because of Manning.
To those saying the MVPs were handed to him is a joke too. He was the best player on a near undefeated team… 14-0 when he played…. How could it not go to him?? Not to mention he lost Gonzales and Marvin and replacved them with Collie and Garcon. Gimme a fucking break. The guys amazing and we can only wish he was a Niner. I guarentee we put Peyton on the Niners were a perenial 12 win team.
Don’t get me wrong, I love the Niners, but Mannings body of work, post season and regular, is undeniable.
Take Manning away from the Colts what are they?? They’re a joke… He’s the best QB of his generation hands down and don’t think there’s much of an argument.
I'm just bitter today
I wanted the Colts to win coupled with the fact I like the A’s, Dubs, and Niners. I do think the Niners will be hosting a playoff game in 2011 though.
Am a big Manning Fan...
but when you put it like that, I am much less disappointed that the Saints won.
- = best ever.
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