Niners Nation: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
New Blog: Along The Olentangy for Ohio State Fans!

15 Stats You (Probably) Didn’t Know About the 2009 49ers

I'm baaaaaaaaaack. That's right. After a long hiatus for various work-related reasons (Read: extracurricular activities impossible for quality control guy in the middle of an office reorganization), I return to reclaim my rightful place as Niners Nation's (NN) resident stats nerd. And believe me, I'll be making up for my absence in a big way (Read: 12 posts over the next 24 days). For some of you, my stat posts will be just what the doctor ordered as a remedy for your Niner/NFL withdrawal. For the rest, I've just given you some really bad news. Here's hoping for more of the former than the latter.

Like Peyton Manning relying on his bread and butter - aka throwing backbreaker INTs - when he returns to the Super Bowl after a long absence, I'm also going back to what I do best: bringing Football Outsiders' (FO) stats to NN. For those who don't visit FO as, um, frequently, as I do, they ran a series of "Stat of the Day" posts during the weeks leading up to the Super Bowl in which they basically scoured the catacombs of their stat database to present information for which they don't otherwise have the time/space.

Well, it turns out that the 2009 49ers were prominently represented in the newly declassified stats; some positively and some negatively. Reading through their posts, I found myself being surprised repeatedly to varying degrees. It was as if I was in some late-night TV purgatory between Arsenio Hall's, "Things that make you go hmm," and Johnny Carson's, "I-I-I-I-I did not know that." My astonishment - and its continuum - forms the basis of this post.

Specifically, I've taken FO's 15 stat-of-the-day mentions of Niner players & team units, ranked them from most to least surprising, and turned that ranking into a countdown-style article. As you'll see, some of these stats aren't surprising at all (Hint: Patrick Willis is awesome!), some are downright astonishing, and the most surprising of all - aka #1 on my list - will probably result in a "duh!" moment for those of you who've been reading my posts since I began on NN back in the fall of 2008. I figured I'd reward the NN greybeards with an inside joke to mark my return.

OK, so on with "The Final Countdown!"

After the jump, I prove that, if asked to do so by an attending officer, I can, in fact, count backwards from 15 to 1...

Star-divide

#15 - PATRICK WILLIS IS AWESOME!

Although much of the US probably still thinks Ray Lewis or Brian Urlacher is the best MLB in the NFL, Niner fans are intimately familiar with the stone-cold fact that Willis is the current standard-bearer at his position. For the nation's edification, FO dedicated an entire post to displaying - statistically, of course - just how good Willis truly is. Although it's technically 2 stats, here's the 15th-most surprising stat you probably didn't know:

  • Willis was the best LB in the NFL when it came to tackling receivers after they'd caught a pass. Specifically, Willis had 63 tackles - most among LBs - on plays in which the opponent completed a pass. Furthermore, on such plays, he led all LBs with 30 stops, which are tackles that result in an unsuccessful play for the opposing OFF (according to FO's standards of down-and-distance-specific success; See here for those standards).

Short translation: Patrick Willis is awesome! Long translation: Patrick Willis is LB kryptonite to offensive pass efficiency.

#14 - ANDY LEE AKA ROBO-PUNTER

Like Willis - OK, maybe a little more than Willis - Lee's prowess is far less conspicuous nationally than it is among Niner fans. Of course, we'd probably prefer it that way, given the alternative situation in which a team's punter also wears its best-selling jersey. Well, even if you already knew that Lee is the proverbial ROBO-PUNTER, I bet you didn't know the 14th-most surprising stat you probably didn't know:

  • Compared to the league average - and all else being equal among punters - Lee gave the 49ers the largest field position advantage via the punt. Specifically, Lee single-handedly accounted for about 17 points-worth of field position on special teams. In other words, if Lee was just an average punter, the 49ers would have given up about 17 more points this season - or about a full point more per game.

#13 - FALSE START. OFFENSE. NUMBER 85.

The breakout season posted by Vernon Davis in 2009 may or may not have been surprising to you. However, one thing that I'm sure won't surprise any Niner fan is the 13th-most surprising stat you probably didn't know:

  • VD committed 12 penalties this season, which was good/bad enough for 6th-most in the NFL among individual offensive players. The 5 penalty machines above him all play OL.

You know how some coaches make fumble-prone RBs carry the ball around with them all offseason as a way to cure their fumble-itis? Well, given that VD's game is nearly complete, perhaps Mike Singletary should just have him stand still until July. I bet he won't false start after that.

#12 - WHY AGAIN WASN'T HE INVITED TO THE PRO BOWL?

Although the stat I'm about to present to you right now isn't all that surprising, what was surprising to me was the emergence of NT-talk during Niner game broadcasts (I mean Nose Tackle, not New Testament). Generally speaking, the NT in a 3-4 defense is about as thankless and invisible as any position a defender could play. I mean, he's basically a big, fat, space-eating, gap-filling, stat-phobic member of his team's roster. Not since the days of Ted Washington have the 49ers had one that's actually any good...until Aubrayo Franklin. And like Washington did back in his days with the Niners, Franklin got mentioned a lot this season; except of course by anyone holding a Pro Bowl ballot. That's a damn shame, especially when I tell you the 12th-most surprising stat you probably didn't know:

  • Franklin was the best 3-4 NT, the 3rd-best DT, and the 5th-best DL in the NFL with respect to stop rate against the run. Specifically, 93% of the Franklin's tackles in the run game resulted in an inefficient (aka unsuccessful) gain for the opposing OFF.

So Franklin, who plays a position in which the purpose of life is to stop the run, is the most efficient run-stopper at that position, and he doesn't go to the Pro Bowl? Even after they were down to 15th in the pecking order? Thankfully, as you'll see shortly, this egregious omission was remedied via another Niner's Pro-Bowl participation.

#11 - MISSED IT BY THAT MUCH!

If I were being 100% selfish in this post, I would have ranked this stat #15 because, to me, it's been about as conspicuous as the elephant in my room. Anyone who's had the privilege/punishment of reading my game-thread comments knows exactly who I'm about to talk about. Hint #1: He's young. Hint #2: He just became a starter. Hint #3: He's a WR. Hint #4: He's allergic to the 1st-down marker when he catches the ball on 3rd down. Hopefully, it's obvious by now. If not, here's the 11th-most surprising stat you probably didn't know (although I did):

  • Josh Morgan was #2 in the NFL among WRs & TEs both in terms of total unsuccessful receptions and unsuccessful reception rate. Specifically, 22 of his 52 receptions - or 42.3% -- resulted in yardage representative of down-and-distance inefficiency.

If you think 22 unsuccessful receptions isn't that high of a total, consider that Morgan had the highest total of any WR not named Brandon Marshall, who - and here are a couple of bonus stats - was targeted nearly twice as many times (154 vs. 81) and had nearly twice as many receptions (101 vs. 52).

Likewise, if you think 42.3% isn't that high of a failure rate, consider that Morgan was 1 of only 2 WRs/TEs in the league to even break the 40% threshold, with the other being Donald Lee, the Packers' short-yardage TE.

#10 - FISH OR CUT BAIT? EVIDENCE SAYS CUT BAIT.

Also familiar to regular readers of mine is that I'm a strong believer in the "fish or cut bait" roster philosophy. There comes a point in time in which a player has shown all he's ever going to show, and it's time to rid the roster of his dead weight. In this context, you might be expecting me to talk about my least favorite 49er, Arnaz "The Human Roster Exemption" Battle.

Interestingly enough, I'm not. Actually, I picked up a new fish-or-cut-bait target later on in the season when I heard his name for the first time all season; right around Week 17 or so. I had practically forgotten he was still on the roster. I'm talking about Isaac Sopoaga. What has this guy ever done in a Niner uniform besides perennially being 1 or 2 years away from being an impact DE/DT/waterboy? Don't agree with me that he's dead weight? Well, that must mean you'll be surprised to know the 10th-most surprising stat:

  • Only 10 DL in the NFL had a lower stop rate against the run than Sopoaga. Specifically, when Sopoaga made a tackle on a running play, the opposing OFF gained efficient/successful yardage 41% of the time.

Given that 3-4 DEs don't do much in the way of pass-rushing, a 3-4 DE who can't stop the run is pretty much the definition of "expendable;" and "expendable" is pretty much the definition of "dead weight; and "dead weight" is a good cue for choosing one of the fish-or-cut-bait options (Hint: It's not "fish").

#9 - DUMPOFFS AND CHECKDOWNS

During the season, I wrote about how there was kind of a chicken-and-egg paradox when trying to figure out who was to blame for Alex Smith's low Yards per Attempt stat. Was the chicken calling for a lot of dumpoffs and checkdowns or was the egg throwing a lot of dumpoffs and checkdowns that weren't called? Well, as with the chicken-egg thing, we're not going to find that answer any time soon. Well, actually, we'll find out in a few paragraphs. What you'll find out now, though, is my 9th-most surprising stat that you probably didn't know:

  • Among QBs with at least 100 completions, Smith had the 3rd-highest failure rate on completed passes. Specifically, 34.7% of Smith's completions resulted in inefficient/unsuccessful yardage for the 49ers' OFF.

Fooch did a pretty thorough treatment of this stat a few weeks ago. What I think is most surprising about it, though, is the statistical company with which Smith kept. Bonus stat alert: The combined record of the other 8 teams represented in the top 10 of QB completion failure rate is 47-81. You want a good indicator of crappy teams? Try inefficient QBs...or OCs; whichever came first, the chicken or the egg.

#8 - MORE FROM THE FAILURE FILES

About halfway through the list, this is where the surprise factor takes a marked increase. Unlike the relatively "duh!" stats I've presented so far, the rest of the rankings have a genuine surprise factor in them. They may not be earth-shattering revelations, but - at least to me - they're all surprising in varying magnitudes.

The first of the rest that caught me by surprise the least was about Michael Crabtree. Personally, I thought his rookie year was an unmitigated success. I also thought that his game, both in terms of what he can do and what the 49ers ask him to do, doesn't resemble Morgan's in the slightest. Little did I know the 8th-most surprising stat:

  • Crabs was #5 in the NFL among WRs/TEs when it came to unsuccessful reception rate. Specifically, 33.3% of his receptions resulted in inefficient yardage.

Obviously, I don't anticipate this becoming a career-long trend. However, I'm not sure if you're keeping track, but I've already told you that the 2009 49ers had the 3rd-worst QB in completion failure rate, along with 2 of the bottom 5 WRs in reception success rate. But wait, there's more...

#7 - EVEN MORE FROM THE FAILURE FILES

There's only one prominent member of the 49ers' pass OFF left that I haven't mentioned in this failure party: VD. Well, technically, I did mention him earlier with respect to penalties by offensive players; just not in the context of failed receptions. Well, here's the 7th-most surprising stat:

  • VD's 19 unsuccessful receptions ranked #6 in the NFL among WRs & TEs.

Granted, VD suffered from a Brandon-Marshall-esque problem in that his large number of unsuccessful receptions was a byproduct of being targeted 129 times this past season. Nevertheless, as much as I prefer rates to totals, VD's total is far from meaningless. That's because each unsuccessful VD reception in 2009 meant one more 2nd-and-long, 3rd-and-mid-to-long, or 4th down situation for the Niners' OFF. Furthermore, it can be argued that VD's unsuccessful receptions were even more detrimental to the overall OFF precisely because he was such an integral part of it. If an offensive player has a lot of unsuccessful receptions in a small number of targets, so be it. You know he sucks, and you replace him. But when it's an offensive player that's targeted nearly as much as both of your starting WRs combined, it's kind of difficult to cut bait, so to speak.

And that brings me back to the chicken and egg. What we see here is that, in terms of inefficiency, the 49ers' pass OFF is practically unparalleled. Inefficiency is pervasive, even affecting their Pro Bowl TE of the present and their destined-to-be Pro Bowl WR of the future. Even when it appears that their much-maligned QB has enjoyed somewhat of a renaissance, and even when a 6th-round WR pick shows enough talent to start from the outset of his 2nd NFL season, inefficiency rules the day. So, to me, the evidence is pretty compelling that the chicken came before the egg. Jimmy Raye's pass OFF, though good enough to be productive, needs a lot of fine-tuning to become efficient.

#6 - PATRICK WILLIS IS STILL AWESOME (BUT NOT AS MUCH AS I PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT)!

Just to pre-empt any hate comments, let me be clear that by no means am I suggesting here that Willis is anything less than the best MLB in the NFL. I bring up this stat only because I was really surprised by it. After seeing Willis ranked #1 in completion tackles and completion stops among LBs, I full expected him to be - at the very least - in the top 5 of completion stop rate. Well, he's not in the top 5, and he's not even in the top 10:

  • At 48%, Willis was #12 among NFL LBs in stop rate on completed passes.

For someone who prefers rates to totals, needless to say I wasn't very happy upon learning this little tidbit of info. However, because certain LBs make more tackles than others, Willis' rate is a more informative measure than his totals. Looking at the Top 10, though, I think I've identified why Willis is ranked so low - and low is a little unfair given that he's still 12th. Namely, Willis is in a class by himself in terms of having a high level of productivity coupled with a high level of efficiency. When looking at the other LBs in the Top 12 of the completion stop rate rankings, only 1 has even half as many completion tackles, and 8 of the other 11 have less than one-third as many. So, looking at both the totals and rates as complimentary measures, it's pretty clear that some LBs were very productive and other LBs were very efficient; but only Patrick Willis was both productive and efficient. It was still surprising, though.

#5 - STRIKING GOLD

Now we're getting to the nitty gritty; the stuff that really surprised the hell out of me.

The Top 5 begins with the first of two S-related stats. That kind of reduces the guesswork a little bit, eh? The 5th-most surprising stat you probably didn't know is another double-whammy:

  • Dashon Goldson's 51 tackles on completed passes was the 3rd-highest total among Ss. He also ranked 3rd with 11 completion stops.

So, going back to the last discussion, Goldson was easily one of the most productive Ss in the league. I was absolutely shocked when I saw this. I knew Goldson was good. I knew he has a bright future ahead of him. I knew for damn sure that he's better than Mark Roman. What I didn't know is that he's a tackling machine. Rather, I always figured his skills were in the "create turnovers" and "lay wood" mold of FSs, not the "I'm the last line of defense" mold.

#4 - THE TOTAL PACKAGE (AND I DON'T MEAN LEX LUGER)

I remember back during the lead-up to 2008 free agency, the debate was between trading for Jared Allen or signing Justin Smith. Allen was the well-known, high-priced franchise player, whereas Smith was the anonymous, bargain basement purchase. Everyone had seen what Allen could do for a DEF, whereas Smith's prowess with the Bengals was predominately outside the box score. As we all know by now, the Niners chose to sign Smith to a 6-year, $45M deal, while Allen was traded to the Vikings, where he later signed a 6-year, $72M deal. At the time, McNolan had a lotta ‘splainin' to do!

The 49ers may have gone the cheaper, non-descript route, but they definitely got their money's worth. That's because - and this is pretty ironic -

  • Justin Smith's 35 hurries ranked 2nd in the NFL among DLs/LBs, behind only Jared Allen.

Where things get even more lopsided in favor of the Niners' brass is in this complementary stat:

Jared Allen? Nowhere to be found on that list. So, in the grand scheme of things, MIN paid $30M more for a player that - when compared to Smith - was more one-dimensional in 2009. In fact, in addition to Smith, only 1 other front-7 defender appeared on both the QB Hurry & Run Stop Rate Top 10 lists: Mario Williams. I hear he got taken #1 a couple of years ago, that he's pretty good, and that, oh yeah, he signed a 6-year, $54M rookie contract. So, based on 2009 stats (and probably 2008 for that matter), the 49ers definitely got a lot of bang for their buck.

In terms of how much Smith's stats surprised me, I have always been under the impression that his impact on the Niners' DEF was subtle, full of intangibles, and showed up more in the coach's film than in the box score. I remember when he was signed that his career stats were a tad underwhelming, but his value was undeniable based on all the dirty work he did. Well, thanks to FO, now we know 2 dirty-work stats that show Smith's 2009 season was every bit as good as what Scot McLoughan advertised.

#3 - LAYING DOWN THE LAW IN PASS DEFENSE

Remember how I said Willis was #12 among LBs in completion stop rate? What I strategically withheld in that section was that he's actually not even the best Niner LB on that list. That honor goes to a player whom, up until now, I actually thought was frequently taken out in passing situations precisely because he wasn't all that good in pass defense. It turns out he's not just really good at defending the pass; he's also really good at making the QB pay for throwing a pass. Here's my 3rd-most surprising stat, which again is actually 2 stats:

Wow. I-I-I-I did not know that. Manny Lawson is omnipresent. When the QB drops back to pass, Lawson gets a hit on him. Then, when the pass is complete, he's also there to tackle the receiver. Amazing.

#2 - MORE FROM THE "I THOUGHT HE'S A PASS DEFENSE LIABILITY" FILES

Continuing the theme, the subject of this stat appears to only see the field in pass defense situations because the coaching staff will do whatever it takes to keep Roman off the field. So I was absolutely shocked - shocked! - to see him at the top of any rankings related to pass defense stats. All I remember from this season is that, if there was a pass defense fail during a game, you could bet your bottom dollar that either Roman or this guy got beat/screwed up on the play. Well, what a real surprise it was when I read the 2nd-most surprising stat I didn't know:

  • Michael Lewis' 10 stops on completed passes was good for #4 in the NFL among Ss

How about that? It's not that Lewis makes a lot of tackles on completed passes, which could easily be the result of him being a bad pass defender, but good tackler. Rather, Lewis makes a lot of stops on completed passes, which means that he prevents pass-catchers from gaining efficient yardage. If it's 3rd & 9, Lewis tackles the receiver (sometimes before he catches the ball, sometimes after) before he gets those 9 yards. If it's 2nd & 7, his tackle of the receiver keeps the opposing OFF out of 3rd & short. For a guy who's considered to be really bad in pass defense, it turns out that Lewis was a lot better in 2009 than I thought he was.

#1 - THE HYBRID STRIKES BACK

Now for the inside joke...The single-most surprising Niner-related stat that I came across while reading FO's Stat of the Day posts was

  • Mike Nolan led the 2009 Broncos DEF to the 2nd-best turnaround in the DVOA era (1993-2009). Specifically, DEN's DEF went from 24.7% less efficient than the league average in 2008 to 7.9% more efficient than the league average in 2009.

For those of you who've been around since the 2008 season, you'll know my first column on NN was a precise dissection of Nolan's reality-light assessments of his team. In that context, as well as knowing just how much Mike Singletary's singular focus on the 3-4 has been an improvement over Nolan's identity-free "Hybrid" and efficiency free "Big Sub," you can see why I'd be flabbergasted to see the word "best" used to describe anything related to a Nolan-led DEF (except for maybe "best at being bad").

So, props to Mike Nolan for actually succeeding at something in the NFL...finally.

BOTTOM LINE

I hope you enjoyed my little countdown here. I'm sure many will disagree with some of my slotting, and many were far less surprised than I was about some of the stats FO declassified. Feel free to voice your disagreements in the comment section. What's less debatable is that, going inside the numbers, so to speak, these stats helped me learn/confirm the following:

  • Patrick Willis is all-around awesome.
  • Andy Lee is ROBO-PUNTER.
  • VD has a penalty problem.
  • Aubrayo Franklin had a Pro-Bowl-worthy 2009 season.
  • Josh Morgan needs to stop looking for the imaginary yellow line and start focusing on the real orange first-down marker.
  • It's time to cut bait aka Isaac Sopoaga.
  • There was an inefficiency epidemic that spread among offensive players in the Niners' passing game. Jimmy Raye appears to have been wielding the bacteria.
  • The 49ers arguably had the most efficient S duo in the NFL during 2009.
  • Justin Smith was arguably the best all-around DL in the NFL during 2009.
  • Manny Lawson was all over the field in pass defense this season.
  • Michael Lewis was not, in fact, a pass defense liability this season. I guess I can lay off him now.
  • After nearly 30 years in the NFL, Mike Nolan finally became a competent defensive coach.

*DVOA statistics used to produce this article were provided by Football Outsiders.

Poll
Which of the following statistical rankings is MOST surprising to you about the 2009 season?
Both starting Ss among top 5 in completion stops
200 votes
J. Smith #2 in QB hurries
42 votes
Lawson #2 in QB hits
180 votes
Nolan #2 all-time in best defensive one-year turnaround
72 votes

494 votes | Poll has closed

2 recs  |  Comment 109 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Finally, my distaste for Isaac Sopoaga is justified! I always knew that guy sucked!

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 9, 2010 11:11 AM PST reply actions  

to get rid of that distaste...

perhaps you/the 49ers need to wash their mouths out with “Soap?”

by Florida Danny on Feb 9, 2010 11:31 AM PST up reply actions  

I was going to say that. Leave it to you to come back and make me happy...

and then take away my favorite thing in life: stupid puns.

Also, I’m all for launching Isaac Sopoaga into the sun.

I chose water over wine... Jars of formaldehyde... think of all the things I missed... Why'd you make me a scientist?

by Ninjames on Feb 9, 2010 12:59 PM PST up reply actions  

stupid puns

are what give my life meaning. that, and praying for the release of Sopoaga, Battle, and Roman. their like the 49ers’ three enemigos.

p.s. see how that pun worked? a stupid pun in a comment about stupid puns. just call me Big Meta-Pun. oh mean, a 3rd stupid pun? someone take this laptop away from me!

by Florida Danny on Feb 9, 2010 1:24 PM PST up reply actions  

You and I could talk for a long time, Danny.

That’s three 49ers we both want gone and three puns. You just accounted for more puns than if you took Battle’s catches, Roman’s deflections and Soap’s tackles and put them all into one statistical category.

That sentence was a bigger mess than watching Roman Battle a wide receiver before falling down in blown coverage. Kinda like slipping on a bar of Soap.

I chose water over wine... Jars of formaldehyde... think of all the things I missed... Why'd you make me a scientist?

by Ninjames on Feb 9, 2010 1:27 PM PST up reply actions  

"Romans Battle Soap"

sounds like an anti-hygiene movement ca. 100 BC

by Florida Danny on Feb 9, 2010 1:35 PM PST up reply actions  

But in the end we all know what happened.

The Roman Empire was wiped clean.

I chose water over wine... Jars of formaldehyde... think of all the things I missed... Why'd you make me a scientist?

by Ninjames on Feb 9, 2010 1:36 PM PST up reply actions  

yes...

and we all know the cleansing was done by Justinian Smith.

by Florida Danny on Feb 9, 2010 1:40 PM PST up reply actions  

You don't have to link your puns when conversing with me.

Haven’t had to click one yet! Links you could, however, put out there:

Link Mark Roman to a gym.
Link Soap to a prison.
Link Arnaz Battle to Jimmy Raye’s playbook. If you have trouble finding Raye’s playbook, just search “Offensive Coordinators for Dummies” on Google.

I chose water over wine... Jars of formaldehyde... think of all the things I missed... Why'd you make me a scientist?

by Ninjames on Feb 9, 2010 1:43 PM PST up reply actions  

ok...

guess i severely underestimated your knowledge of obese, departed hip-hop artists & the gothic war.

by Florida Danny on Feb 9, 2010 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Justinian was obscure, I'll give you that.

I only knew enough to know it was relevant and funny.

I chose water over wine... Jars of formaldehyde... think of all the things I missed... Why'd you make me a scientist?

by Ninjames on Feb 9, 2010 1:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I hope Drew K saw this.

I guess maybe we do need another DE….

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

by chikmagnet_565 on Feb 9, 2010 1:51 PM PST up reply actions  

I actually would like to take issue with this stat...

I thought Sopoaga played pretty well last year from what I saw. But that’s not specifically what I want to take issue with… rather, I’m not sure this metric is that relevant. True, it’s the job of DL (especially in a 3-4) to stop the run. BUT by and large they’re asked to do that by tying up blockers, freeing linebackers to flow to the play and make the stop.

I suppose what I’m saying is that while this stat might not be totally useless, I don’t think it’s at all dispositive in measuring how effective a run stuffing DL is. I think you more have to look at how the defense did as a whole in stopping the run, and I think we could all agree that the Niners were pretty good last year (and have been for the last few). If Sopoaga was really such a weak link, we wouldn’t be that good, because offenses would run right at him all day and exploit it. I certainly didn’t see that happen last year.

I think may actually be happening here is that Sopoaga is actually quite quick (read in Maiocco’s blog a couple years back that coaches thought he had the best explosion off the line of any 49ers DL). When a runner gets by the linemen, who are focused on tying up blockers, the other guys up front are pretty much out of the play. But maybe Sopoaga is quick and explosive enough to separate from the blockers he’s tying up and get to a rb who may be making a cut a couple of yards downfield. Just one of the possibilities for why this particular stat may not be the best measure for DL.

Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on Feb 9, 2010 11:39 PM PST up reply actions  

I’ve heard comments all across the board on Sopoaga, from Pro Bowl mention to useless. Not sure how to interpret that stat above. I wasn’t paying attention to him this season. The only thing I can remember is teams were able to reach the edge running to the left side. However I’m not not sure if the failure belongs to the OLB.

by bignerd on Feb 9, 2010 11:48 PM PST up reply actions  

ya

I’m not saying I’m really positive that Sopoaga is great… All I’m really arguing is I don’t think I like that stat because it seems like it could penalize DL who take good angles when chasing a runner who’s broken through the line. It’s entirely possible that a running back could break through the line, through no fault of a particular D-lineman, then that D-Lineman could chase him down and make a tackle, and this particular stat (if I’m understanding it correctly) would interpret that as a BAD play, when actually it would be quite the opposite.

Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on Feb 9, 2010 11:53 PM PST up reply actions  

another general point

when it comes to run defense, I don’t think you can pick and choose this much to statistically measure a player. Run defenses operate as a unit— when an RB is tackled running to the left, it may be just as much because there was no cutback lane available to the right as it is that the guy on the left makes the tackle. The Niners run defense was damn good overall last year, which leads me to believe the coaches know what they’re doing when it comes to stopping the opponent’s ground game. If Sopoaga was a part of that, I’d be pretty content letting him stay. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on Feb 10, 2010 12:02 AM PST up reply actions  

I usually draw the line at most advanced statistics when it examines individual players, not all but most. This stat points the finger at Soap but doesn’t filter out how the rest of the defense supports Soap or how offenses choose to attack the 49ers defense. This stat could be a by-factor of something else. I thought the Michael Lewis stat above was misleading. He probably accounts for some many stops because teams are always attacking Michael Lewis because he is a weak link in coverage.

by bignerd on Feb 10, 2010 12:14 AM PST up reply actions  

Sopoaga

here’s the thing about DE in a 3-4. They’re supposed to get penetration to force the run to the outside so that the OLB or CB can come up and make the stop. On pass plays they have to get pressure on the QB. On runs up the middle they should be able to stop for no gain unless they’re double-teamed.

Soap is very rarely double-teamed. His pass-rush skills are poor. He tends to try a weak bull-rush, look around for the action and then it’s too late. I’ve seen him try a rip move before but he’s not very good at that either. I went back and watched the first quarter of the Titan game and focused my attention solely on him. Here are the notes I jotted down.

The Titans had 4 drives in the first quarter

Drive 1
1st play—Pushed back 5 yards. The play was a run to the opposite side
2nd play—No penetration to cause a bounce out. 3 yard gain on his side
3rd play—Quick pass to left
4th play—Quick pass to right
5th play—Franklin penetrated to tackle Johnson for a loss. Sopoaga was still fighting off his blocker.
6th play—weak pass rush.

So I would grade this drive with him having 3 poor plays and 3 average plays.

2nd Drive
1st play—Pass. No rush, easily held back. 10 yard completion
2nd play—Pitch to the opposite side. Sopoaga was still fighting the block when Johnson was tackled
3rd play—49 yard complete pass to Gates. Stunt move that didn’t work out. Sopoaga was double-teamed
4th play—Good penetration, pass complete to opposite side
5th play—Stunt rush. Sopoaga gets penetration. It’s a half-back pass and Sopoaga gives up on the play even though it’s still live. Johnson tackled by Tarrell Brown.

1 good play, 1 average play, 3 bad plays (one of them really bad).

3rd Drive
1st play—Blown back by the tackle. Gain up the middle for 4 yards
2nd play—Play Action. No penetration. Haralson comes unblocked to tackle Johnson for a loss
3rd play—Pass again. Sopoaga tries a weak bull rush. Basically just using his arms and not driving really hard with his legs.

1 bad play, 2 average

4th drive
1st play—Great job shedding the blocker to tackle Johnson for a loss
2nd play—No penetration. Tries a half-hearted rip
3rd play—Pass play again. Weak bull rush
4th play—Run to his side. No penetration to spread out the run. 4 yd gain
5th play. Driven back by RT for a 3 yd gain up the middle.
6th play. Stunt. Sopoaga got tangled up by the offensive linemen (almost tripped). QB draw for a TD.

1 great play, 2 average (being generous), 3 bad.

Here are my problems with Sopoaga. He tends to give up on plays. He doesn’t go full-throttle. His pass rush is suspect—his bull rush consists of him punching with his arms, which is fine if your an offensive lineman but sucks for a defensive lineman. I’ve never seen him try a spin or try to use speed to get to the outside. His rip move is weak. He doesn’t get enough penetration to force the run outside.

In my opinion he’s average to slighlty below average. We could definitely use an upgrade there.

When I was watching the game after Gage got his long 49 yard reception he went and started high-fiving the crowd. This idiot was yammering on his cell phone and gave him the bird. I thought it was amusing.

Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.

by smileyman on Feb 10, 2010 4:05 AM PST up reply actions  

that's all fair

Really, I’m more taking issue with the stat than its evaluation of the player.

Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on Feb 10, 2010 10:53 AM PST up reply actions  

Really nice article Danny. I’d like to see Sopoaga gone as well. Hopefully Balmer can step up and take his place next season. Harsh burn on Nolan!

by Josh Branco on Feb 9, 2010 11:42 AM PST reply actions  

No no no no no no no no no no no.

If Soap is gone (needs to be) Balmer should NOT be the one to take his place. That guy sucks.

I chose water over wine... Jars of formaldehyde... think of all the things I missed... Why'd you make me a scientist?

by Ninjames on Feb 9, 2010 1:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Balmer can take his place as the guy who doesn’t really do anything good for the defense.

But who will take Balmer’s place?

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 9, 2010 1:00 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm just biased.

I’m OK with Balmer getting the nod. BUT IT’S ALL ABOUT FREAKY JEAN, BABY!

I chose water over wine... Jars of formaldehyde... think of all the things I missed... Why'd you make me a scientist?

by Ninjames on Feb 9, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Real answer:

I don’t know shut up. :[

I chose water over wine... Jars of formaldehyde... think of all the things I missed... Why'd you make me a scientist?

by Ninjames on Feb 9, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m a big fan of Boise State’s Kyle Wilson’s returning abilities.

by hellaninersfan on Feb 9, 2010 1:58 PM PST up reply actions  

To go along with what you said

ProFootballFocus.com ranks Patrick Willis as the best LB in the league and Justin Smith as the best DE in the league. Andy Lee is ranked 3rd among all QBs.

Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.

by smileyman on Feb 9, 2010 11:44 AM PST reply actions  

Andy Lee is ranked 3rd among all QBs.

was this a typo or is Andy Lee just that awesome

"The Football The 49ers Team has The excitement of the bear, the velocity of the deer and strenght of the buffalo.

by 49erLou on Feb 9, 2010 3:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I figured it was a sarcastic comment about the nature of our QBs…and also how awesome Lee is.

by David Fucillo (Fooch) on Feb 9, 2010 3:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Typo

But yes Andy Lee is that awesome

Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.

by smileyman on Feb 9, 2010 3:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Just proves my sig…

Andy Lee for MVP! Hey, that rhymes...

by Ramah71 on Feb 9, 2010 5:05 PM PST up reply actions  

He was also pissed that Martz anointed JTO without giving him a shot.

by bignerd on Feb 9, 2010 11:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Balmer or McDonald need to step up this offseason.

by superk1ng on Feb 9, 2010 11:48 AM PST reply actions  

It seems conspicuous that Morgan, Crabtree, and Smith all have high “unsuccessful” completion rates. In Fooch’s other thread about the Alex Smith stat, I expressed some concern over the method, which still seemed to be rewarding teams too much for not getting stuck in second or third and long situations.

Is the stat as problematic as I think it is, or am I missing something critical with regard to the method.

For reference: http://www.ninersnation.com/2010/1/23/1266108/football-outsiders-stat-of-the-day#29429276

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 9, 2010 11:52 AM PST reply actions  

I saw the problem as a combination of three things:

1) The offensive line continually fails to give the receiving targets 2.5 seconds to get open.
2) Morgan isn’t quite starter ready. Defense doubles on Crabtree and VD leaving Morgan to make the play.
3) Alex occasionally gets jumpy and checks down before letting the play develop.

Some will add a 4th with Jimmy Raye’s play calling but I’ve seen other teams pull off this offense.

by bignerd on Feb 9, 2010 12:28 PM PST up reply actions  

well...

here are my thoughts on that:

1) the fact that smith, morgan, and crabtree have high unsuccessful completion rates has something to do with statistical methodology, except it’s a reeeeally statistical point. namely, completions and receptions, along with passing yardage and receiving yardage have perfect correlations with each other. so, if alex smith throws an unsuccessful completion, then by definition his receiver just made an unsuccessful reception, and vice versa. the stat can’t possibly separate the 2. however, given that you’d expect this phenomenon, the important thing about the 49ers’ specific case is that they’re the only pass offense in the league that seems to demonstrate this dependency to an absurd degree. if you look at the lists i’ve linked to that contain the actual stats, you don’t see as much teammate overlap between the QB & WR/TE rankings.

2) in terms of

rewarding teams too much for not getting stuck in second or third and long situations

that’s definitely a methodological aspect of the stat, but i wouldn’t agree that it’s a methodological flaw. FO’s standards of “success” on a given play are based on Palmer, Carroll, & Thorn’s research in Hidden Game of Football, which found that gaining 45% of needed yardage on 1st down, 60% of needed yardage on 2nd down, and 100% of needed yardage on 3rd down was most associated with scoring points on offense. In other words, FO didn’t just make these standards up out of thin air.

Now, what I would say is that the last revision of Hidden Game of Football came out in 1998, and, needless to say, NFL offense has changed just a tad since then. So, the standards may not be as relevant to contemporary NFL offense as they were 10+ years ago, and therefore need to be updated. However, I can’t imagine the FO crew doesn’t look at this when doing quality control work on their DVOA stat.

Finally, “rewarding” seems to suggest that teams who consistently meet the above standards are gaining an undue advantage vis-a-vis DVOA. This criticism is a long-standing one and generally takes the related form, “DVOA ranks west coast offenses too highly because they’re designed to dink and dunk their way to a lot of 5-yard ‘efficient’ gains.” My rebuttal to this — and I’m sure you’d agree being a fellow niner fan — is that the best evidence for the superiority of dinking-and-dunking, and therefore FO’s success standards, is none other than the 49ers 25-year dynasty that was a direct result of such an offense. in other words, most of us probably spent the 80s & early 90s wondering why the WCO was so good. thanks to the research i cited above, and FO’s continuation of it, we now know the answer: offensive efficiency as measured by play-by-play success rate. i’d say that’s a vindication of the measure, not a critique.

by Florida Danny on Feb 9, 2010 12:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I think i have a more basic issue with the idea of percent of yards needed per down.

I mean, 45% of first downs will always be the same number of yards (penalties permitting). Second downs will vary wildly depending on the first down play. And third downs even more than that. And I think that maybe your comment about the WCO is helping me figure it out a little. This stat seems to be very subject to the whims of a system, and not very good at necessarily grading individual player value.

If the 49ers dinked and dunked today (or, rather, used the most efficient offense), the system more than the player will result in a high percentage of “successful” plays. If the 49ers run for a total of 3 yards on first and second down, though, the system – not the player – creates a higher percentage of unsuccessful plays.

I just think that this kind of stat almost makes more sense for evaluating overall offensive efficiency – and should, in that rubric, extend to all plays including running – and has some glaring deficiencies when individualizing performance.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 9, 2010 12:52 PM PST up reply actions  

i see your point...

it’s kind of like the difference between efficiency and execution. the system can be designed to be efficient, but the players may not execute that system well, and therefore their stats might not adequately reflect the efficiency of the overall system.

i’d agree that success rate is probably a better measure of overall efficiency than individual efficiency, except that the individual measure almost certainly gets more reliable as sample size increases. so, for instance, brandon marshall’s hideously bad success rate based on 154 targets/101 receptions is probably a better indication of his individual inefficiency than morgan’s is based on only 81 targets/52 receptions. of course, if we’re only going to trust individual success rates at sample sizes over 100, then we’re not going to be trusting many players’ success rates.

going back to the specifics, however, i think the pattern of inefficiency displayed by this year’s offensive players suggests 1 of 2 things:

A) either raye’s system is really inefficient or
B) raye’s players execute his efficient system really poorly

my bet’s on the latter given raye’s track record, but i can hold off one more season for final summary judgment.

by Florida Danny on Feb 9, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions  

meant...

the former…

i really hope this commenting thing is like riding a bike.

by Florida Danny on Feb 9, 2010 1:03 PM PST up reply actions  

But what if somebody steals the bike?

I chose water over wine... Jars of formaldehyde... think of all the things I missed... Why'd you make me a scientist?

by Ninjames on Feb 9, 2010 1:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Then Danny doesn’t comment for another two months.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 9, 2010 1:09 PM PST up reply actions  

hmm...

i think “not commenting for two months” is what’s gotten me in this commenting mess to begin with.

by Florida Danny on Feb 9, 2010 1:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Marshall

Is his inefficiency rating because of him, or due to Orton? I watched a bunch of Bronco’s games this year and it always seemed as if Marshall was given the ball in 3rd and long situations having to BEAT tacklers. So he wasn’t catching the ball with 1 yard to go and open space, but with 5+ yards to go and 2-3 tacklers. Just seems like with Ortons arm strentgh and plays that were called it was a throw, and pray he can make something happen. So again, is it his lack of ability, or the situation he is being put in?

As for Goldson, you stated how AWESOME he was with tackles, but does that tell the story that our CBs or LBs are more weak than average ALLOWING the WR to get to the Safety in the first place? The first thing that stands out to me regarding a Safety that makes a lot of tackles is…he is our last line of defense, therefore a safety making tackles is getting into the belly of our defense. It shouldnt be happening if Corners are keeping things in front of themselves. Its like with Lewis, does he have a lot of tackles because he is a good tackler, and makes plays a typical Safety wouldnt make, or is he being picked on because he gives up a lot of completions, thus making tackles BEHIND the WR.

I love stats, but you have to be reasonable with what they are telling you. Stats CAN be misleading. Just because Lewis makes tackles at a high clip, doesnt mean he is a pro bowler.

by hudd07 on Feb 9, 2010 1:18 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

i think i...

addressed this in the post when i said that goldson and lewis don’t necessarily make a lot of tackles; he makes a lot of efficient tackles. lewis isn’t in the top 10 among Ss in tackles after completions, and goldson is #3 in completion stop rate, which mitigates him being #3 in completion tackles.

point is that, if goldson and lewis were high in the total completion tackle rankings, but absent in the completion stop rate rankings, i’d totally agree that their high number of tackles was simply a byproduct of shoddy coverage. however, given that they’re both at the top of the completion stop rate rankings, it means that, even if there’s shoddy coverage, they’re stopping the receivers for inefficient yardage gains. nothing misleading about that.

by Florida Danny on Feb 9, 2010 1:29 PM PST up reply actions  

But...
however, given that they’re both at the top of the completion stop rate rankings, it means that, even if there’s shoddy coverage, they’re stopping the receivers for inefficient yardage gains. nothing misleading about that


So I guess that this implys that there COULD be shoddy coverage, however, they are still good at stopping it? I guess I see that.

What about B. Marshall? I think I just look at both sides of the “equation” if you will. My statistics class always taught, here is the stats, here is the equation, but you have to look at what went into the data being collected, and was there any factors that changed the data you collected. What were the factors, that could change why Goldson was so successful. Just due to the nature and the MANY different moving parts, I think your use of the word “arguably” above and below this comment, is pretty important.

I LOVE your stat posts, just am a little skeptical and don’t consider them as the end all be all. I hope you don’t mind my opinion and thought process in relation to your posts and stats? I do truly love the statistical rationale, I will just be one of the guys asking you the same things as I did above, ie what are the reasoning or factors behind the stats.

by hudd07 on Feb 9, 2010 2:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I think that it more strongly implies the “bend but don’t break” defensive philosophy that the 49ers have employed for a few years. The idea of “don’t be afraid of completions, but don’t sacrifice downs in the process.”

For a long time we’ve seen the more micro philosophy of “you can catch the ball, but you’re not getting a first down” and the more macro version of “you can march down the field, but the buck stops at the goal line.”

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 9, 2010 2:40 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree with this

The 49ers defense is designed to stop the run on 1st and 2nd down leaving 3rd and long which Manusky loves to play shell coverage than rally up to tackle the dump off the pass.

In fact I think the 49ers are too in love with that philosophy. Converting 3rd and 9 to 4th and 1 gets the offense off the field for most of the game but a handful of times it enticed teams to go for it on 4th down. The 49ers defense wasn’t good in short yardage situations.

by bignerd on Feb 9, 2010 11:59 PM PST up reply actions  

howtheyscored

…is on the money here. it’s indicative of an efficient bend-but-don’t-break pass defense…which is an improvement over nolan’s inefficient bend-but-don’t-break pass defense.

no worries about your comments. well-grounded skepticism is a good thing.

by Florida Danny on Feb 9, 2010 2:43 PM PST up reply actions  

also...

i think i used the word “arguably” when describing the Niners Ss vis-a-vis their stature among S tandems in the NFL. learned my lesson a long time ago about omitting qualifiers when talking about stats.

by Florida Danny on Feb 9, 2010 1:33 PM PST up reply actions  

I never wondered why the WCO worked...

I discovered a stripped-down version of it while playing tackle football with acquaintances in asphalt parking lots in the late 70’s. (Yeah, I know tackle, paved field, I’m really supposed to be a Raiders fan…) Shorter completions were usually easier to make, and they got you just as much yardage as a run. If they tried to stop you from passing short, you could then run out of play-action and catch people doing the wrong thing, or try a long ball. The efficiency of it just seemed manifestly obvious.

by asleepinSF on Feb 9, 2010 3:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Run out of play action...

What am I talking about? It was just a straight hand-off. Once they then expected you to run again, start faking handoffs and resume the short throws. That’s what I was trying to write, I think. Over-caffeinated and hitting send before I had my post right. Doh!

by asleepinSF on Feb 9, 2010 3:26 PM PST up reply actions  

manifestly obvious to you...

but not to everyone. i’d bet a good number of people think the WCO works simply because it has/had QBs like montana, young, favre, elway, mcnabb, garcia, & hasselbeck, to name a few, running it.

by Florida Danny on Feb 9, 2010 3:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I do think the QB is a huge part of it. The entire NFL tried to run the WCO at some junction in the 90’s. QB’s who have run the offense say it takes 3 years to become efficient. It’s my own opinion it also takes a talented WCO coach.

by bignerd on Feb 10, 2010 12:03 AM PST up reply actions  

You da man Danny!

I really liked your posts regarding our safeties. I felt that we had a very solid safety tandem this year although i hear people bash Goldson and Lewis often. Great point regarding the chicken and the egg, how many years has Jimmy Raye been an OC now? Jeesh, will this guy ever become an efficient playcaller? I heard you can’t teach an old dog new tricks……hope I’m wrong. Our time is now, if we don’t seize the moment and take what’s ours (The NFC West title) it just may be another 7 years before we return to the playoffs.

by sak9r on Feb 9, 2010 12:34 PM PST reply actions  

well...

here are my thoughts on that:

1) the fact that smith, morgan, and crabtree have high unsuccessful completion rates has something to do with statistical methodology, except it’s a reeeeally statistical point. namely, completions and receptions, along with passing yardage and receiving yardage have perfect correlations with each other. so, if alex smith throws an unsuccessful completion, then by definition his receiver just made an unsuccessful reception, and vice versa. the stat can’t possibly separate the 2. however, given that you’d expect this phenomenon, the important thing about the 49ers’ specific case is that they’re the only pass offense in the league that seems to demonstrate this dependency to an absurd degree. if you look at the lists i’ve linked to that contain the actual stats, you don’t see as much teammate overlap between the QB & WR/TE rankings.

2) in terms of

rewarding teams too much for not getting stuck in second or third and long situations

that’s definitely a methodological aspect of the stat, but i wouldn’t agree that it’s a methodological flaw. FO’s standards of “success” on a given play are based on Palmer, Carroll, & Thorn’s research in Hidden Game of Football, which found that gaining 45% of needed yardage on 1st down, 60% of needed yardage on 2nd down, and 100% of needed yardage on 3rd down was most associated with scoring points on offense. In other words, FO didn’t just make these standards up out of thin air.

Now, what I would say is that the last revision of Hidden Game of Football came out in 1998, and, needless to say, NFL offense has changed just a tad since then. So, the standards may not be as relevant to contemporary NFL offense as they were 10+ years ago, and therefore need to be updated. However, I can’t imagine the FO crew doesn’t look at this when doing quality control work on their DVOA stat.

Finally, “rewarding” seems to suggest that teams who consistently meet the above standards are gaining an undue advantage vis-a-vis DVOA. This criticism is a long-standing one and generally takes the related form, “DVOA ranks west coast offenses too highly because they’re designed to dink and dunk their way to a lot of 5-yard ‘efficient’ gains.” My rebuttal to this — and I’m sure you’d agree being a fellow niner fan — is that the best evidence for the superiority of dinking-and-dunking, and therefore FO’s success standards, is none other than the 49ers 25-year dynasty that was a direct result of such an offense.

by Florida Danny on Feb 9, 2010 12:37 PM PST reply actions  

damnit!

reply fail on my first comment in over a month…FML!

by Florida Danny on Feb 9, 2010 12:38 PM PST up reply actions  

FLOLida Danny!

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 9, 2010 12:57 PM PST up reply actions  

FLOLida DLOLnny

o wate

I chose water over wine... Jars of formaldehyde... think of all the things I missed... Why'd you make me a scientist?

by Ninjames on Feb 9, 2010 1:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Question about Sopoaga and the line

If a defensive end plugs up a hole, forcing the running back to bounce outside and get tackled for a loss (or limited gain) by an OLB or DB, does that get factored in? Can that even really be factored in?

by David Fucillo (Fooch) on Feb 9, 2010 12:43 PM PST reply actions  

not factored in...

debatable whether it even could be factored in. only hope would be FO’s game charting project.

p.s. sounds like your fishing here, fooch. cut bait already! ;-)

by Florida Danny on Feb 9, 2010 12:50 PM PST up reply actions  

fishing indeed

I think so. Generally I look to the numbers, but I just wonder how much of the dirty work is just too tough to measure. Obviously Justin Smith and Aubrayo Franklin have overcome that, so maybe that’s enough to cut bait on Sopoaga.

It’s just that if Manny Lawson is coming on the left side and getting QB pressures, how much does he benefit from Sopoaga opening up holes for him? Or is it further proof that Lawson is just awesome that he can overcome Sopoaga being in front of him?

I think it’s just that I can’t clearly delineate the issues.

by David Fucillo (Fooch) on Feb 9, 2010 12:59 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah...

i can see your point about how much of the “dirty work” done by a 3-4 DE isn’t measured all that well. however, part of my “cut bait” philosophy involves constantly waiting for the player to show something, anything! as you alluded to in re smith & franklin, their dirty work may not be measured well, but at least they’re showing something; and in only their 2nd/3rd years with the team & 1st year in the current 3-4-all-day-every-day system. sopoaga, on the other hand, just finished his 6th season with the 49ers and has diddly to show for it. to me, the equation is simple:

lack of productivity + more than 3 years with opportunity to show productivity = cut bait

by Florida Danny on Feb 9, 2010 1:12 PM PST up reply actions  

For what it's worth

Scouts Inc. gives Sopoaga a rating of 67, which is considered an average starter. While Balmer only got a score of 59, which is considered a reliable backup. I don’t know how much stock to put in those numbers, but I also get the feeling that Sopoaga is a better player than Balmer. But that could just be because he has more years of experience.

Don't trust this guy. He lies.

by urnext on Feb 9, 2010 1:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I put zero stock in Scouts Inc. numbers. I don’t think they have the resources to grade every player.

by bignerd on Feb 10, 2010 12:18 AM PST up reply actions  

That's something that ProFootballFocus

tries to do when they watch players and analyze their performance on a per play basis. They have Sopoaga ranked 35 out of 39 defensive ends (in a 3-4 scheme).

By their methodology Sopoaga is a pretty poor run defender and only average against the pass.

Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.

by smileyman on Feb 9, 2010 1:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Don't trust PFF for rankings, only stats.

I chose water over wine... Jars of formaldehyde... think of all the things I missed... Why'd you make me a scientist?

by Ninjames on Feb 9, 2010 1:54 PM PST up reply actions  

I tend to agree

but when you have a bunch of different sites saying the same thing about a player . . .

Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.

by smileyman on Feb 9, 2010 1:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh no, I agree.

Soap sucks. Just PFF wasn’t the best to cite regardless.

I chose water over wine... Jars of formaldehyde... think of all the things I missed... Why'd you make me a scientist?

by Ninjames on Feb 9, 2010 1:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Well everybody else had already been cited

just throwing more fuel on the fire.

Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.

by smileyman on Feb 9, 2010 2:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I wish Lex Luger played for the Niners. But can we even afford him?

I DUNNO!!

I chose water over wine... Jars of formaldehyde... think of all the things I missed... Why'd you make me a scientist?

by Ninjames on Feb 9, 2010 1:05 PM PST reply actions  

he does...

he wears #94.

p.s. per wikipedia, doesn’t look like lex luger will be playing footsie, let alone football, anytime soon.

by Florida Danny on Feb 9, 2010 1:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Luger can't even beat a t-shirt.

I chose water over wine... Jars of formaldehyde... think of all the things I missed... Why'd you make me a scientist?

by Ninjames on Feb 9, 2010 1:27 PM PST up reply actions  

'' Really like youre columm even though stats r like !ssholes everybodies got one

but 4 real new saints had the 26th ranked pass defense and you can fill in the blank ,but i do feel you in a few things we hold on 2 garbage 2 long sappoga why is he still here roman why is he still here and if singletary can call out vernon davis in front of a packed stadium including people on TV well he should took roman jersey off after that minnesota game in front of everyone michael lewis wow he tackles people yea so does my son he should of been cut year or 2 ago the niners got this way off hanging on 2 used 2 be names who are not making big plays no there making a whole bunch of little plays that adds up 2 stats like that i call them meaningless he stays healthy and tackle running backs and reciever and only other then that pick against chicago after cutler then threw 5 before doesn’t get a fart outta me peopel who love and know football can pin point 8 out of ten of those stats without the numbers alex checks down 2 much ‘’ ya think ’’’ its cool it gives us something 2 talk about dealing with a LONG OFFSEASON but we know what we suck in and know what we rule in its just pisses me off that i called out alot of those flaws without the numbers and sure theres niners fans on here who did 2 what pisses me off is that the so called professionals in our franchise still let this dead weight hang on this teem ya its money and contracts but thees contracts are not like nba or mlb where youre breaking off way more than half of that contract soppaga ass romans ass should of been gone yesterday and lewis should of been traded or became a situanational player at best let’s cut that bait or whatever that phrase went and lets let playmakers play!!!!!

by jayjonna415 on Feb 9, 2010 1:34 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

[site decorum]

I chose water over wine... Jars of formaldehyde... think of all the things I missed... Why'd you make me a scientist?

by Ninjames on Feb 9, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions  

That was so bad I’m recommending it.

Andy Lee for MVP! Hey, that rhymes...

by Ramah71 on Feb 9, 2010 5:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I can’t read that, and I’m not going to try.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 9, 2010 1:40 PM PST up reply actions  

But U shuld try 2 read IT.

Let's bring the...

by Swager on Feb 9, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Stop giving me bad advice. I’m still paying back the debt from last time.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 9, 2010 1:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Rec'd for valiant service to Niners Nation

Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.

by smileyman on Feb 9, 2010 2:25 PM PST up reply actions  

So this was a stat-bashing comment?

Stats aid in perception. The help to contextualize what you’re seeing and help you understand the game in a more complete way. Stats are important because they can support what you see with your eyes. Stats are also important because they can also debunk what you see with your eyes, forcing you to look at the game in a new, more critical and thoughtful way.

I don’t mind when people don’t care about stats. Some people don’t have the energy for it. Some people don’t care. But there’s no reason to go out of your way to try to cut down their use. Just don’t use them. We’ll all be happier for it.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 9, 2010 2:30 PM PST up reply actions  

totally worth it
cutler threw 5 picks that game so that doesn’t get a fart out of me

for this alone.

by t p on Feb 9, 2010 3:53 PM PST up reply actions  

We can’t cut Lewis. He signed a 6 year, $30 million deal that I believe expires in 2013.

Andy Lee for MVP! Hey, that rhymes...

by Ramah71 on Feb 9, 2010 5:09 PM PST up reply actions  

cutting players

He’s past the guaranteed money so they could cut him and it wouldn’t kill them.

by David Fucillo (Fooch) on Feb 9, 2010 5:22 PM PST up reply actions  

woweeewow wow wow

"The Football The 49ers Team has The excitement of the bear, the velocity of the deer and strenght of the buffalo.

by 49erLou on Feb 9, 2010 3:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Fascinating read...

Boy, those offensive statistics are, well, offensive. To be that bad though, the blame has to be multifold. O line, QB play, WR play, play calling – all to blame. The one other thing I woud like to add to that list though is the difficulty the 49ers had in consistently getting plays into the huddle in an efficient manner. Smith constantly was battling the play clock trying to avoid delay of game penalties – what a stark contrast from watching the two teams playing the Super Bowl last weekend who seemingly had all day to look over the defenses, make adjustments, etc.

Overall though, I think much of the article illustrates a larger point – this coming season is huge for the 49ers. Smith, Morgan, Sopo, Balmer, Coffee, Hill, Snyder and Raye – all are important players/coaches who will largely determine their future with the team this year. Last year, many of the inefficiencies/inconsistencies can be largely explained away as Singletary/Raye’s first season, but not in the 2nd year. Play calling, player awareness (both individually and collectively) should be far improved, translating to more wins. One thing is for sure, 7-9 won’t cut it this season…

"Granted, this is not a great situation, but when all you have is lemons, you add some vodka to dull the pain..."

by Mcamp49 on Feb 9, 2010 2:03 PM PST reply actions  

if we go 7-9 again, I think we may see the entire team, coaching staff, and FO released/fired. This upcoming season is the very definition of “make or break” for this team. If this season anywhere near a disappointment (not getting to the playoffs, having a winning record) then we could be looking at another 5 yrs of massive rebuilding

Much easier, all-mighty Megatron, then attacking the real threat...The Autobots moonbase!!

by Brave Neander on Feb 9, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions  

woops....

not* having a winning record

Much easier, all-mighty Megatron, then attacking the real threat...The Autobots moonbase!!

by Brave Neander on Feb 9, 2010 3:54 PM PST up reply actions  

good stuff as always danny

A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.

by wjackalope on Feb 9, 2010 3:20 PM PST reply actions  

welcome back Danny

good stuff as usual, a lot of surprising and not-so surprising stuff.

"The Football The 49ers Team has The excitement of the bear, the velocity of the deer and strenght of the buffalo.

by 49erLou on Feb 9, 2010 4:01 PM PST reply actions  

WOW, this was absolutely sensational. Loved it and rec'd it

My favorite part is the bit on Soap.

#10 – FISH OR CUT BAIT? EVIDENCE SAYS CUT BAIT.

I have been saying I wouldn’t be shocked if the Niners drafted a DE in the first two rounds. Ha, I was on to something.

Thanks again how they scored, as usual, well worth the half an hour read.

Mocking.............
1a- traded for Eric Berry
1b- CJ Spiller RB Clemson
2 traded to acquire E Berry
3. Calloway, Selvish Capers, Jason Fox
4. Mike johnson OG, John Jerry, Asamoah
5. Stephen Williams, Jacoby Ford, Freddie barnes
6.Anthony Wiseman CB Maryland
7. Danny Batten, South Dakota State - DE

by rlott#42 on Feb 9, 2010 5:30 PM PST reply actions  

(Psst… Florida Danny wrote this one. Although I plan on being back with the Year-by-Years this week).

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 9, 2010 5:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorry Danny, epic Fail on my part.

Mocking.............
1a- traded for Eric Berry
1b- CJ Spiller RB Clemson
2 traded to acquire E Berry
3. Calloway, Selvish Capers, Jason Fox
4. Mike johnson OG, John Jerry, Asamoah
5. Stephen Williams, Jacoby Ford, Freddie barnes
6.Anthony Wiseman CB Maryland
7. Danny Batten, South Dakota State - DE

by rlott#42 on Feb 9, 2010 6:32 PM PST up reply actions  

#8

could his unsuccessful rate be low because they threw a lot of screens to him?

Go 49ers

by iaalexeeff on Feb 9, 2010 7:49 PM PST reply actions  

good question

They’ve tried working in that bubble screen business and it’s been fairly unsuccessful.

by David Fucillo (Fooch) on Feb 9, 2010 7:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Fairly is an understatement.

It was VERY unsuccessful. I think the OL made that play more difficult to execute than the QB or Crabtree.

Mocking.............
1a- traded for Eric Berry
1b- CJ Spiller RB Clemson
2 traded to acquire E Berry
3. Calloway, Selvish Capers, Jason Fox
4. Mike johnson OG, John Jerry, Asamoah
5. Stephen Williams, Jacoby Ford, Freddie barnes
6.Anthony Wiseman CB Maryland
7. Danny Batten, South Dakota State - DE

Sorry FloridaDanny, I owe you one, I just don't know what it is!!

by rlott#42 on Feb 9, 2010 8:39 PM PST up reply actions  

success rate

I’d be curious to know how much that one blown play factors in because it seems like they run it at least once a game to Crabtree.

by David Fucillo (Fooch) on Feb 9, 2010 8:43 PM PST up reply actions  

And I don't think it ever went for more than 7 yards, and that may have been once.

Stat guys may be able to look, but that would have to be a hard find.

Mocking.............
1a- traded for Eric Berry
1b- CJ Spiller RB Clemson
2 traded to acquire E Berry
3. Calloway, Selvish Capers, Jason Fox
4. Mike johnson OG, John Jerry, Asamoah
5. Stephen Williams, Jacoby Ford, Freddie barnes
6.Anthony Wiseman CB Maryland
7. Danny Batten, South Dakota State - DE

Sorry FloridaDanny, I owe you one, I just don't know what it is!!

by rlott#42 on Feb 9, 2010 8:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Any pass to Crabtree over 5 Yards has been successful for the most part. He made some fantastic grabs down field and he also dropped a couple here and there. Typical rookie stuff. He should be alot more efficeint this coming season as far as “unsuccessful rate”. Had he played a full year, I am positive his name would have been in the talks for the rookie of the year award.

The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.

by Drew K on Feb 9, 2010 10:14 PM PST up reply actions  

This was my first thought, too

and for Morgan, and Davis, too.

This might be some form for confirmation bias in my perception, but it does seem that the 49ers called a lot of screens last year, and nearly always were they unsuccessful.

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.

The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco

by bobnothing on Feb 10, 2010 9:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Thanks
Compared to the league average – and all else being equal among punters – Lee gave the 49ers the largest field position advantage via the punt. Specifically, Lee single-handedly accounted for about 17 points-worth of field position on special teams. In other words, if Lee was just an average punter, the 49ers would have given up about 17 more points this season – or about a full point more per game.

Was looking for a stat like this. Unfortunately in a previous thread I unscientifically estimated this to be roughly 7-12 points per game rather than 1 point per game. Of course I don’t want to make it seem like Andy Lee isn’t awesome. We all know he still is, just not god-like like I thought he was, but that’s more my fault than his.

by jveezy on Feb 10, 2010 12:43 AM PST reply actions  

One guy you may have forgotten although the stats didn't show it

Michael Robinson :

3 rushes for 2 yards
6 passes for 24 yards
18 kr for 414 yards. OK .
A total of 27 touches for 13 games.
I wonder what Cory Sheets could have done ?
I’m not going to mention what Coffee did. 1st year blues ? He wasn’t my choice.

by LASVEGASNINER on Feb 10, 2010 8:47 AM PST reply actions  

Coffee also spent some time injured. I’m willing to give him a little bit of the benefit of the doubt for being a hurt rookie. Of course he’s not going to look good.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Feb 10, 2010 9:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

The only blog that enjoys VD *and* Crabs!
Start posting about the 49ers »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

M_1ca9d4e665b44b39a835045feded2d8a_small
I hope we lose HARD tomorrow.
Dave_small
Official NN 53-Man Roster Projection FanPost

Recent FanPosts

Sexy_nuts_small
Are the 49ers guilty of enabling Crabtree?
Worldtitlelaf_small
Matt Leinart about to be traded from Arizona.
Small
look at some key contract terms; plus other goodies
Jey_small
CHOOSE AN ALTERNATE UNIFORM FOR THE 49ERS
Crabtree_small
2005 San Francisco 49ers: The Greatest Offensive Football Team Ever Assembled
Howtheyscoredcat_small
Niners Nation Prediction Games: A Call for Help
Screen_shot_2010-04-25_at_10
Secondary considerations
Dave_small
Niners Nation Sports Bar Search: Where you watching the games?
Small
LB Corps even better

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Latest NFL Headlines from SB Nation

SPONSORS

SBNation.com Recent Stories

Photo

2010 NFL Preview, New York Jets: Mark Sanchez Bears The Burden Of Expectation

Photo

2010 NFL Preview, New England Patriots: The Tom Brady Factor

FILE - This is a Sept. 27, 2009, file photo showing Arizona Cardinals defensive tackle Darnell Dockett  coming onto the field prior to an NFL football game against the Indianapolis Colts, in Glendale, Ariz.  Darnell Dockett knows there are people who don't like him, even though they don't know him as more than anything but a big, rough football player for the Arizona Cardinals. (AP Photo/Matt York, File) +1 updates

Darnell Dockett Signs Four-Year Extension With Cardinals

More from SBNation.com >


Head Ball Coach

Dave_small David Fucillo (Fooch)

Howtheyscoredcat_small howtheyscored

James-brady_small Ninjames

Pirates_small smileyman

Coordinator

Hats_small Andrew Davidson

Referee

Jackalope_card_small wjackalope