Continiue to develop the spread offense
by MichaelClutchtree on Feb 9, 2010 9:39 PM PST
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PrintThis thread is a discussion geared towards why the 49ers should continue to develop the spread offense for next year, and not give the smash-mouth approach another shot next year, even with o-line upgrades. Even though the the 49ers record after converting to the spread was less than desirable, having this ability in your arsenal is not just a cool way to give a different look - it is essential to success in today's NFL. 3 points if I may:
1) Due to NFL rule changes, some recent, some not so recent, it has become a passing league. Any contact is called on the DB probably 95% of the time, even if the receiver initiates the contact. I wouldn't be surprised if the NFL gets rid of the 5 yard bump rule in a few years given the success of this super bowl. They want scoring and the rules are slanted towards teams that score.
2)The teams that made it to the playoffs and went far, had dynamic passing attacks (sans NYJ and BAL of course), and the teams that made it all the way use the spread often and can rarely be stopped. If you want to win, you gotta score points. If you want to score points consistently, you have to pick up yards in chunks. That means passing the ball - a lot.
3)The 49ers have the pieces in place to run this ****!! If you hate Alex, love him, whatever....he's got a gun, and can make quick accurate throws from the spread and attack defenses with ruthless aggression. We have size and speed on the outside with Crabs and Morgan, and match-up nightmares in Vernon and Delanie. If we had half of the offensive ingenuity that the Saints and Colts have with their play calling, I think we would be near impossible to stop like they are. Oh and BTW, we have this stud RB too...
Obviously I don't think we should be 90/10 pass/run or anything like that, and I do think that we should be able to run out of the spread and pass out of the I-formation for deception purposes. Balance to any offense is important, but I think it is apparent that having a sick passing attack is the key to winning football in today's NFL. Singletary seeing this trend, and doing a 180 strategy-wise mid season says a lot about his big picture analysis skills and his ability to adapt, but that is another thread.
Bottom line is mix in some runs to keep the defense honest, but we need to fire away with the spread attack. This offseason needs to be dedicated to developing a (more) deadly passing attack out of the spread so that we can beat some teams 35-14 and not have to rely so heavily on our D.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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Good post
and I agree
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
I disagree.
While I do agree that the 49ers should not give the smash-mouth approach another shot, I do not believe they should be insisting on something as un-dynamic (I know no other word) as the spread offense, which even Joe Montana himself has criticized for being somehow a hinderance to players’ development. I concur with Steve Young, that the 49ers should move back toward the West Coast Offense scheme and stop pandering to what it thinks its current personnel is only capable of.
I’m sure there are concerns about the 49ers spending another year on something they aren’t really developed for, but as a long-term 49er fan (literally all my life) it is just disheartening for me to see the 49ers having abandoned the West Coast Offense scheme, something they immortalized. The team needs the dynamic passing game if it wants to re-earn sold out fan bases and actually move forward again. This whole idea that it should “try something new” and “reinvent” the team’s image while practically wearing the old uniform, the uniform of champions, is just absurd to me.
a little 2 late 2 respond
you know i was just like you feeling we need 2 get back 2 that west coast offense but lately i haven’t seen that offense winning any super bowls i may be wrong but philly/andy reid , has been running it 4 a while consistent in the playoffs but no rings mike shennahah ran it a while in denver no rings since elway holgrem ran it consistent in the playoffs but no rings even though they got robbed in the SB but i do feel the spread is where we need 2 go but not full time alex is comfortable in it we have the weapons 2 run it why keep trying 2 fit a square into a circle its all about scoring if we don’t score we don’t win .
I have a better idea.
Why not get better at passing from under center?
It makes it harder on the opposing defense.
I do agree that the 49ers need to put more work into the “spread/shotgun” so that they can score when there are 2 mins left.
But I would much rather see the team play a game in which they pass from under center the majority of the time.
If Alex can continue to work on his footwork and if the OL can improve, it shouldn’t be an issue.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
With how bad the pass protection currently is..
Taking snaps from under center will put Alex under more pressure then Shotgun will. This shouldnt be a problem say… next, next year. But right now the line just cant really do it. The majority of the time Alex wont be able to get past his first read when taking the snap from under center.
I dont think the Niners should try to be a pass happy team. Under last years circumstances, the offense had little choice. What with Alex taking the starting job, and the running game not being very successful.. They have an entire offseason to re-evalutate the offense and make adjustments. Jimmy Raye did a good job of switching the offensive philosophy mid season and making is effective, i have hope that given a full offseason he will make the right moves.
p.s. I lost a little faith in Morgan this past season… I was riding high on this guys bandwagon before the season started, now im officially off it. Hopefully he develops a little chemistry with Alex… because i expect Crabs to come pretty damn close to 1,000 yards or 90 receptions this up-coming year.
The problem has always been the OL
The offensive line can be fixed, though.
It’s really just Snyder and Baas dragging everyone else down.
I’m sure that with a couple of new guys (draft and/or FA) the line will be able to give Smith more than 3 seconds to throw.
The shotgun/spread can work but I feel the 49ers can do much more damage if they can threaten a defense by being able to pass AND run from under center.
If they could run effectively out of the shotgun, then maybe they could consider moving to the spread full time.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 10, 2010 2:42 PM PST up reply actions
The problem has not always been the offensive line.
The offensive line is a major part of it, and it’s no secret. However, we do not have a QB with any pocket presence. Then we also haven’t had the same offensive coordinator for more than one season in the past how many years? Our O line has been poorly out together and therefore there is not continuity or gelling if you will. I don’t think it is just the OL as I stated before, but it is the main issue, because Alex could never feel comfortable if he has always been used to pressure.
Mocking.............
1a- traded for Eric Berry
1b- CJ Spiller RB Clemson
2 traded to acquire E Berry
3. Calloway, Selvish Capers, Jason Fox
4. Mike johnson OG, John Jerry, Asamoah
5. Stephen Williams, Jacoby Ford, Freddie barnes
6.Anthony Wiseman CB Maryland
7. Danny Batten, South Dakota State - DE
Sorry FloridaDanny, I owe you one, I just don't know what it is!!
Surprisingly enough, Alex Smith’s sack numbers suggest that he has pretty good pocket presence.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Feb 10, 2010 7:59 PM PST up reply actions
What I seen vs his sack numbers, was Smith fleeing the pocket and rarely stepping up into the pocket.
The Best QB’s in this league move around pressure and step up to throw. I wasn’t talking about taking sacks, but sometimes a QB can step in the pocket and move to the left or right ot buy more time and I don’t see that in his play. I am sure he has happy feet due to the previous time with no OL.
Mocking.............
1a- traded for Eric Berry
1b- CJ Spiller RB Clemson
2 traded to acquire E Berry
3. Calloway, Selvish Capers, Jason Fox
4. Mike johnson OG, John Jerry, Asamoah
5. Stephen Williams, Jacoby Ford, Freddie barnes
6.Anthony Wiseman CB Maryland
7. Danny Batten, South Dakota State - DE
Sorry FloridaDanny, I owe you one, I just don't know what it is!!
I understand the distinction that you’re making, but if a guy is constantly avoiding pressure when he should be taking sacks, that suggests that he has a pretty good awareness of the pocket, and also suggests that if his “pocket presence” doesn’t fit the conventional model that might have more to do with the lack of a pocket than his own deficiency..
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Feb 10, 2010 8:53 PM PST up reply actions
I understand exactly what you are saying.
What I seen from him in the Shotgun was more dropping back than anything. When you are in the Shotgun, I think you are more open to an outside rush than inside, but Smth would get the snap and take 3-5 steps back and set to throw. instead of taking the snap and positioning himself to throw. Then when the pressure was outside and he could step up, he wouldn’t. He would run back and out of the pocket. he did have some pockets to throw from, I think he is either A. not used to it or B. has poor presence, IMO.
Mocking.............
1a- traded for Eric Berry
1b- CJ Spiller RB Clemson
2 traded to acquire E Berry
3. Calloway, Selvish Capers, Jason Fox
4. Mike johnson OG, John Jerry, Asamoah
5. Stephen Williams, Jacoby Ford, Freddie barnes
6.Anthony Wiseman CB Maryland
7. Danny Batten, South Dakota State - DE
Sorry FloridaDanny, I owe you one, I just don't know what it is!!
What does this have to do with passing out of the gun as opposed to under center?
I was just saying that if the OL gets better, passing from under center becomes easier and the 49ers can be more creative with their offense.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 10, 2010 11:44 PM PST up reply actions
The whole offense needs continuity. The OL as one unit playing together and the offense playing as one unit, and all within the same offense. it has a lot to do with playing under center or out of the shotgun.
Mocking.............
1a- traded for Eric Berry
1b- CJ Spiller RB Clemson
2 traded to acquire E Berry
3. Calloway, Selvish Capers, Jason Fox
4. Mike johnson OG, John Jerry, Asamoah
5. Stephen Williams, Jacoby Ford, Freddie barnes
6.Anthony Wiseman CB Maryland
7. Danny Batten, South Dakota State - DE
Sorry FloridaDanny, I owe you one, I just don't know what it is!!
You can still run spread from under center FYI
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
You mean spreading the WRs and taking the snap under center?
I’d like to see the 49ers pass effectively out of the 2TE, 2WR,1RB set.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 10, 2010 11:46 PM PST up reply actions
I like the formation, I’d like to see an extra WR rather than a TE more often than not also. With Vernon the sole TE. If we get another WR that is a true #2, then I’d like to see that guy whoever he may be, Crabtree and Morgan and Hill sharing time out of the slot.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
But it's harder to run with 3 WRs
I see the above formation as the most balanced formation in the 49ers playbook.
They can run very well out of it and they can pass out of it too.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 11, 2010 11:16 AM PST up reply actions
I’d just like to see the extra WR in there more frequently similar to the Colts and Saints.
The Saints run it with 1 RB (Bush, Thomas, Pierre), 1 TE (Shockey), and a rotation of 3 WR’s rotating (Meachem, Colston, Henderson, and Moore).
The Colts run it with 1 RB (Brown or Addai) 1 TE (Clark), and a rotation of 3 WR’s (Wayne, Collie, and Garcon)
The Vikings run it with 1 RB (Peterson or Taylor), 1 TE (Shiancoe), and a rotation of 3 WR’s (Berrian, Rice, and Harvin)
I expect to see it more from us if we draft another WR fairly high…
I don’t mind seeing it at all
1 RB (Gore and TBD), 1 TE (Davis), and the 3 WR rotation (Crabtree, TBD, Morgan, and Hill). We just have to plug in a couple players through the draft and or free agency.
I know you don’t care too much for a specific USC Alumn, but PTI reported the Niners as being one of the teams interested in Reggie Bush. I think he could be a good addition, especially if he can stay healthy now. He is fairly expensive though and that would be my main reason for not wanting him.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
Reggie Bush?
I thought he was turning a corner after the AZ game.
I think he will be back in NO though (probably with a re-structured contract).
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 13, 2010 12:05 AM PST up reply actions
Well if he runs like he did in the playoffs
he’ll be a beast for a long time.
I really found it interesting that his fullback told him to stop juking around so much and just run straight ahead and you could see the difference in the playoffs.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
Definitely. And now that he’s fully healthy, it looked like a crunched up some roids before the games and was goin heads up with LB’s and DB’s. I still can’t get over that one run in AZ where he looked trapped and then juked those two LB’s in to each other… that was classic. I won’t forget that run for a while.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
I’d prefer the 2 TE, 2 WR sets to any 3-4 WR sets mostly because of the versatility of it. Also the sear amount of plays one could run with it, whether it is a pass, run, or play-action. D’s wouldn’t know pre-snap what it’s going to be.
Also the possibilties of it in a 2-minute offense. Smith/Raye could call almost any play they wanted because the personel are so multi-talented.
by Hoopers Judge on Feb 11, 2010 6:50 PM PST up reply actions
This.
If Delanie Walker can improve his blocking, the possibilities are endless.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 13, 2010 12:05 AM PST up reply actions
I love the two TE formations
It creates so many mismatches. If we can find a TE that’s as good as VD (or even 3/4 as good) can you imagine the horror that opposing defenses would have?
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
Walker
hasn’t been able to in 4 Season’s… I suspect that’s why we picked up Tony Curtis… but I still HATE that personel group. It’s turned in to a passing league with all the rule changes and it’s only going to get worse. We need to get our WR’s acclimated and comfortable in the offense. ALL OF THEM
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
In two years, when you aren’t aloud to sneeze in the direction of a WR, you all are going to be saying the same thing. I just want to be ahead of the curve.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
In two years, when you aren’t aloud to sneeze in the direction of a WR, you all are going to be saying the same thing. I just want to be ahead of the curve.
In two years, when you aren’t aloud to sneeze in the direction of a WR without drawing a flag, you all are going to be saying the same thing. I just want to be ahead of the curve.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
I got it. West Coast Spread offense :) the best of both worlds lol
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Feb 10, 2010 4:03 PM PST reply actions
The "SPREAD" is overrated in my opinion. But mainly by how you define it. Is it shotgun, or multiple receiveing options.
Our receiving options are as follows
1. Davis
2. Crabtree (1 and 2 are easily switchable since Crabtree can catch and get open)
3. Walker- and this is the problem. our 3rd best WR is a TE as well as our number 1 or 2, wherever you rate Davis. The dropoff for the next WR option is why the spread is not a direction for this team.
3)The 49ers have the pieces in place to run this ****!! If you hate Alex, love him, whatever….he’s got a gun, and can make quick accurate throws from the spread and attack defenses with ruthless aggression.
This is extremely off IMO, he is not that accurate, ask Crabtree. he wants to use this offseason to imrove his mechanics, so maybe that will help.
Saints and Colts have with their play calling, I think we would be near impossible to stop like they are. Oh and BTW, we have this stud RB too…
They also have possibly two hall of fame QB’s that have been in their system for more than 3 seasons, along with most of their offensive weapons as well. The Niners have a whole team going into their offenses 2nd year together in the same offense, so there is reason for optimism, but I have to draw the line myself, before journeying into homerism. Plus a QB no where near HOF consideration. Even with a 40 td season, he will not be in consideration.
Balance to any offense is important, but I think it is apparent that having a sick passing attack is the key to winning football in today’s NFL
It isn’t the key, it’s just the profile of the most recent superbowl teams. Jets beat the Chargers and their passing attack. Passing is definitely overrated these days, simply because Mannings and other succesful QB’s don’t grow on trees. When you have an inexperienced Qb like Smith, IMO, the way to go is improve the running game and defense. The Jets had a potent attack on the ground and atrocious passing game, but, if they were in the game points wise they could be even more dangerous. I do want our offense to have more weapons added so we can be consistent at scoring. the spread however, takes a long time for a team to gel and be consistent. it took the Saints and Brees 4 seasons to put this together and they finally got there when their defense began making plays. Personally I am against the spread offense as a focal point. Nothing wrong with catching a team on it’s heels and going no huddle and passing to get points. But as a focal point for this team with these players, it is more of a set back, Smith needs to work on his mechanics and pass efficiently 20 – 25 times per game and we need to run on teams, and let our defense rest, because they again will carry us this year.
Mocking.............
1a- traded for Eric Berry
1b- CJ Spiller RB Clemson
2 traded to acquire E Berry
3. Calloway, Selvish Capers, Jason Fox
4. Mike johnson OG, John Jerry, Asamoah
5. Stephen Williams, Jacoby Ford, Freddie barnes
6.Anthony Wiseman CB Maryland
7. Danny Batten, South Dakota State - DE
Sorry FloridaDanny, I owe you one, I just don't know what it is!!
I would like them to go back to a west coast offense so Young can help Smith with the reads and stuff he said that on Maiccos blog
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Feb 10, 2010 9:42 PM PST up reply actions
So set the entire offense back so Young can work with him in the West coast offense?
Most OC’s that use that offense, are HC’s, or on the way to being HC’s. Who will be the coordinator that will stay with the team and let them gain the reps neccessary to run that offense effectively?
Mocking.............
1a- traded for Eric Berry
1b- CJ Spiller RB Clemson
2 traded to acquire E Berry
3. Calloway, Selvish Capers, Jason Fox
4. Mike johnson OG, John Jerry, Asamoah
5. Stephen Williams, Jacoby Ford, Freddie barnes
6.Anthony Wiseman CB Maryland
7. Danny Batten, South Dakota State - DE
Sorry FloridaDanny, I owe you one, I just don't know what it is!!
At least mix some of it in the playbook
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Feb 13, 2010 4:28 PM PST up reply actions
I'd rather see young work with him on ball placement and mechanics as well as touch.
Any drills they used that would help them improve that, that type of stuff.
Mocking.............
1a- traded for Eric Berry
1b- CJ Spiller RB Clemson
2 traded to acquire E Berry
3. Calloway, Selvish Capers, Jason Fox
4. Mike johnson OG, John Jerry, Asamoah
5. Stephen Williams, Jacoby Ford, Freddie barnes
6.Anthony Wiseman CB Maryland
7. Danny Batten, South Dakota State - DE
Sorry FloridaDanny, I owe you one, I just don't know what it is!!
This highlights the problem with going to any kind of spread, WCO, hurry-up etc., etc.
1. Davis
2. Crabtree (1 and 2 are easily switchable since Crabtree can catch and get open)
3. Walker- and this is the problem. our 3rd best WR is a TE as well as our number 1 or 2, wherever you rate Davis. The dropoff for the next WR option is why the spread is not a direction for this team.
If you replace Walker with Morgan, or Gore, it’s still a sad state of affairs that you have two decent receiving options. This team isn’t built to pass the ball, at least not on a regular basis. Rlott is right that we need to focus on improving the running game. In my mind that means drafting offensive line talent and maybe a change of pace back to switch things up with Gore.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
Those are the players we had last year. Whose to say we don’t add some marquee players in the offseason? I actually anticipate that happening. Spread doesn’t necessarily have to be run out of the shotgun. I reaally hope we don’t go back to what doesn’t work in the NFL anymore like we did last year. If you line up in an I-formation with two TE’s a FB, and 1 WR you’re set up to fail. Defenses will stack and DB’s will bump… it’s a recipe for disaster. We already saw that last year. It doesn’t matter who the QB is, you could clone Joe Montana and put him in there and that doesn’t change the fact that there’s going to be 11 mad dogs on the other side of the line rabid and ready to attack from 2 Yards away.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
Who are we going to add in FA though?
T.O.? Donte Stollworth? Trade one of our picks to Denver for Brandon Marshall? Hope the Chargers don’t franchise Vincent Jackson and pick him up?
There really aren’t very many maruee receivers coming up for FA.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
Why does it have to be one of those guys? There are options in the draft as well.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
Well when you talked about adding marquee players in the offseason
I assumed you were talking about FA
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
Adding through the draft is what I hope, but, they will be rookies and being a KEY player in the offense will take some time adjusting to the offense and to playing at this level.
Mocking.............
1a- traded for Eric Berry
1b- CJ Spiller RB Clemson
2 traded to acquire E Berry
3. Calloway, Selvish Capers, Jason Fox
4. Mike johnson OG, John Jerry, Asamoah
5. Stephen Williams, Jacoby Ford, Freddie barnes
6.Anthony Wiseman CB Maryland
7. Danny Batten, South Dakota State - DE
Sorry FloridaDanny, I owe you one, I just don't know what it is!!
Like Harvin and Crabtree? I agree there is an adjustment period, but certain players (rookies) can be an instant force to be reckoned with
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
Yes they can, but in the case of Harvin there were already two WR'S on the roster that allowed him to fit into his role, and we don't have that here.
Tribute to #42 Ronnie Lott
Yeah but
Jerry Rice was pretty much a lone ranger in ‘96 when T.O. came in and took away some of those doubles, so it’s certainly possible. We can call J.J. Stokes about as an equivelant to Josh Morgan right?
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
John Taylor and Jerry Rice were only two years apart in their rookie years. Rice in ’85 and Taylor in ’87
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
Taylor versus TO
I’d take Taylor in a heartbeat. JT was fabulous. Wasn’t given his due since he played alongside Rice.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Feb 14, 2010 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
I doubt that TO had that type of impact. He got his first catch in week 4, his first TD in week 8 and his first 100 yard game in week 15. The totals were 35 rec. 520 yds and 4td's. Couldn't have been in 96.
Smith and Crabtree had from week 5 to week 17, plus a bye week, to gel, and it never happened. He was throwing him high all game against the Lions (mayeb Rams). He still needs time to gel with what we have. Adding plays for the spread, since it wasn’t what Raye had in place from the offseason. I wouldn’t mind adding late round WR’s like Ford, Williams, and Barnes. Bring them on slowly in the offseason and season and use them for the SMALL amount of spread we use. The formation of two TE’s 2WR’s and a RB should be our focal point to build off of. I would rather they went no huddle with this personnel and then spread these players out. There were interceptions and bad plays on 3rd down due to the lack of team chemistry on offense. I think the spread takes to much time and we should get the basic execution intact and then add as we go. Spread offense takes years for success. Especially when your QB is not in the top half of the league.
Tribute to #42 Ronnie Lott
What are you talking about in ‘96? He was a rookie…. he made an impact during the season and that’s all I am trying to illustrate. He had a couple great games and took alot of the pressure off Jerry to do everything by himself. Obviously it takes time to build chemistry, but all my point was trying to do is show that rookies can make an instant impact and contribute right away. Maybe not 100 catches and 1000+ yards but give defenses something else to worry about other than just Crabtree, Davis, and Gore
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
I dont think we’re in disagreement there… or maybe I’m wrong and you think it’s a waste now?
The reason I hate that 2 TE set is because Delanie can’t block and he’s not really a true TE. Now that we picked up this Tony Curtis guy, maybe it’ll be more effective… but then again maybe not also… We do have receivers that can make plays. They may not be solid number two’s but guys like Morgan and Hill can be a problem if you don’t watch them….possibly Jones too. We don’t really know what’s up with him because of his injury and besides his two or three snaps he got on offense during the season.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
I don't think it's a waste, I just think we did it too much last season.
I think we should abruptly go with a spread hurry-up out of nowhere sometimes. The two TE set is better suited for it, because it at least is a “TYPICAL” running formation and I feel it is why it was our most productive formation. I think our basis should be 2 backs 2 wr and a te. I think adding a big bidy WR is the way to go. THey are the best safety valves as long as they catch well. I do mean 6’ 3" to 6’5", WR.
Tribute to #42 Ronnie Lott
I think the Josh Morgan comparison would fit Tai Streets more than JJ Stokes.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
If you line up in an I-formation with two TE’s a FB, and 1 WR you’re set up to fail.
FALSE
The Atlanta Falcons kicked [site decorum] by passing and running out of this formation (at least they did before Turner got hurt).
We don’t have the pieces that they do, but the formation can be very effective if used correctly.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 10, 2010 11:49 PM PST up reply actions
TRUE
Atlanta ran that formation a few times in the game… I don’t consider a few plays counting as running that formation all the time. That formation stinks and should be scrapped from anyones playbook. Just because someone gets lucky on it against a team who evidently did not show up on a couple occasions, doesn’t warrant it to be a primary formation. Also, how long did it work for them and how efficeintly? Seems to me they lost a bunch of games after us and had to do things differently like us down the stretch. That formation just does not work, the percentages of success are low. I am so burnt out on this topic…. I don’t understand how anyone could want to go back to something that with EVIDENCE does not work for this football team.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
Also
The Atlanta game is a horrid example since it was our DB’s that decided to take the day off, not Atlanta doing anything special. Our DB’s got beat like they stole something that day….badly! Had zero to do with the formation
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
That's their base offense dude.
They have a very good RB, a good FB that can catch out of the backfield, they have a HOF TE, a great No.1 WR, a very good O-line and Matt Ryan.
They have all the perfect “ingredients” to use that formation the majority of the game.
They have been using it for 2 years and they had to get away from it because Turner got hurt.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 11, 2010 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
THat formation put up points for more teams than just the Falcons.
We did surrender several rushing TD’s, big passing plays, and points to that offense. I don’t see how every team should scrap it because you don’t like it. Especially when they have success with it. It was the right approach playing our defense.
Mocking.............
1a- traded for Eric Berry
1b- CJ Spiller RB Clemson
2 traded to acquire E Berry
3. Calloway, Selvish Capers, Jason Fox
4. Mike johnson OG, John Jerry, Asamoah
5. Stephen Williams, Jacoby Ford, Freddie barnes
6.Anthony Wiseman CB Maryland
7. Danny Batten, South Dakota State - DE
Sorry FloridaDanny, I owe you one, I just don't know what it is!!
Has nothing to do with me caring for it or not caring for it. It doesn’t work. Not well anyway. Easy to defend and game plan against it for the eilite teams.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
Thats why you dont see a bunch of teams that run that Offense in the playoffs
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
Our defense was rated pretty high, and it worked.
Mocking.............
1a- traded for Eric Berry
1b- CJ Spiller RB Clemson
2 traded to acquire E Berry
3. Calloway, Selvish Capers, Jason Fox
4. Mike johnson OG, John Jerry, Asamoah
5. Stephen Williams, Jacoby Ford, Freddie barnes
6.Anthony Wiseman CB Maryland
7. Danny Batten, South Dakota State - DE
Sorry FloridaDanny, I owe you one, I just don't know what it is!!
What worked? That formation on offense got blown up by opposing D’s. Had nothing to do with Hill or Smith at QB. Again, when there are 11 mad dogs stacking the box and blitzing the [site decorum] outta you and the opposing DB’s jamming your WR’s up at the line, you can’t do anything even if John Elway was in there. That is why that offense is not the majority in the National Football League
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
Hold on now.
You said the formation doesn’t work, and I said it worked against our defense and our defense is better than there’s. The difference is their QB can throw the ball. They were in max pro with 3 receiving options and made plays down field. We haven’t used that approach from that formation. At least I didn’t see it. Again, I don’t like it for our team, chill please.
Mocking.............
1a- traded for Eric Berry
1b- CJ Spiller RB Clemson
2 traded to acquire E Berry
3. Calloway, Selvish Capers, Jason Fox
4. Mike johnson OG, John Jerry, Asamoah
5. Stephen Williams, Jacoby Ford, Freddie barnes
6.Anthony Wiseman CB Maryland
7. Danny Batten, South Dakota State - DE
Sorry FloridaDanny, I owe you one, I just don't know what it is!!
Well...
I wouldn’t exactly say Matt Ryan is anything special, yet. Alex Smith was similiar or better in most QB stats then Ryan. Smith’s completion percentage was 60.5 to Ryan’s 58.3, also Smith’s yds/att was 6.3 to Ryans 6.5. So to insinuate that Ryan can throw better then Smith is false.
by Hoopers Judge on Feb 11, 2010 6:44 PM PST up reply actions
Hill played in that game and that is the issue with the formation.
Hill can’t throw downfield, and I think Alex struggles with progression.
Tribute to #42 Ronnie Lott
Smith's
struggles in progression is largely due to him not getting a ton of time in the pocket when under center.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
Matt Ryan also lost his stud RB for a LONG time.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 13, 2010 12:09 AM PST up reply actions
But it does work.
Why do you keep ignoring the fact that with the right players the formation is very effective?
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 13, 2010 12:08 AM PST up reply actions
And who are the "Right players"?
Just trying to understand and follow your context.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Feb 14, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
A very good OL is needed.
A stud RB
A pass catching FB
A great TE
Another solid TE
A WR that can beat double coverage.
and, of course:
A QB that can sell the play action, has good footwork and good accuracy.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 16, 2010 10:56 PM PST up reply actions
Well we're in trouble then
We have a stud RB
We have a great TE
We have a WR who can beat double coverage
We’re missing everything else.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
We might have a PC FB
Pass Catching FB in Britt Miller. Let’s hope so and then we can just focus on the OL and hopefully get better at QB.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Feb 17, 2010 4:19 AM PST up reply actions
I really like Brit Miller and hope he gets his shot
but our starting FB has rocks for hands
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
Well, we don't need to use that formation then.
I think the 49ers are better with the 2TE, 1RB, 2WR formation.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 17, 2010 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
Define "Another solid TE"
Do you mean blocking capabilities or receiving capabilities as far as solid and which would be weighed more heavily for this secondary TE?
Just thinking that Delanie has good receiving skills and would be solid there but not great at blocking.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Feb 17, 2010 4:17 AM PST up reply actions
Good at blocking
Ok at pass catching.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 17, 2010 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
Then let's hope
that Tony Curtis turns into that kinda guy. Taking a ticket in the “wait and see” seats for that but it’s for sure that Delanie doesn’t fit that.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Feb 18, 2010 4:29 AM PST up reply actions
We also signed Joe Jon finley to a futures contract
so he has another chance at making the team.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
Well, that's only for the 2RB,2TE,1WR set
The 49ers don’t need to use that formation if they don’t have the pieces.
Of course, it would be nice if Curtis made the team and had an impact.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Feb 18, 2010 10:51 PM PST up reply actions
this
plus 1
Mocking.............
1a- traded for Eric Berry
1b- CJ Spiller RB Clemson
2 traded to acquire E Berry
3. Calloway, Selvish Capers, Jason Fox
4. Mike johnson OG, John Jerry, Asamoah
5. Stephen Williams, Jacoby Ford, Freddie barnes
6.Anthony Wiseman CB Maryland
7. Danny Batten, South Dakota State - DE
Sorry FloridaDanny, I owe you one, I just don't know what it is!!
I don't want to see that formation either.
I like the 2wr, 2te, and 1rb formation and wouldn’t mind seeing a 3wr 1te and 1rb set. I just think we have to add a WR that is a threat on the outside, and demand a duoble team or take advantage of single coverage, so Crabtree can work the middle of the field like Welker.
Mocking.............
1a- traded for Eric Berry
1b- CJ Spiller RB Clemson
2 traded to acquire E Berry
3. Calloway, Selvish Capers, Jason Fox
4. Mike johnson OG, John Jerry, Asamoah
5. Stephen Williams, Jacoby Ford, Freddie barnes
6.Anthony Wiseman CB Maryland
7. Danny Batten, South Dakota State - DE
Sorry FloridaDanny, I owe you one, I just don't know what it is!!
Roll-outs, people--Roll-outs!
My biggest criticism of Jimmy Raye is that he didn’t make enough use of the fact that Alex Smith is really good outside the pocket—something that Norv Turner knew well and took much advantage of. If you heard that interview with Barbieri and Tolbert the other day, it was clear that Smith was surprised by the fact that he wasn’t sprinted out and rolled out nearly as much as he had been under Turner. I’m not a fan of the spread because a) it limits the usefulness of Frank Gore, who loves to use blockers, and does so quite well, and b) because the spread can actually limit creativity and variety, and thus your ability to keep defenses off-balance. If you noticed during the Super Bowl, the Saints passed the ball a lot, but did so almost exclusively from under center. But because they were under center, their play-action fakes actually faked the defense out—just enough to make for some really nice openings in the passing game. That’s the kind of creativity I saw lacking last year, and that I’d like to see in the future.
Jason Hill is turning the corner!
Roll Outs
take away half of the field and half of your targets and weapons.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
Just another thought.
We didn’t see much run sweeps outside the guards. Nearly everything was up the middle. Very Predictable last year. Sheets was very good at that during the Preseason.
Doesn’t really matter who’s pulling when the DT’s,DE’s, and LB’s have already busted their way in to the backfield and the Safeties and Corners are on their way in for reinforcements. Baas isn’t gonna save the day when he has to block 3 to 4 guys.
The Tim Tebow Story "A Bust In The Making" ...Part 2 Coming After The Draft...Stay Tuned.
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