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Around SBN: NFL Week One: Previews and Predictions for all 15 games

The Shaun Hill 49ers era comes to the End of the Road

Shaun_hill_40_medium

Just before lunch yesterday, word came down that the 49ers reportedly traded Shaun Hill to the Detroit Lions for a 2011 seventh round pick.  Although the trade is not finalized (awaiting Carr's signed contract), it would seem to be more or less a done deal.  Given the 49ers recent acquisition of David Carr, this trade was not exactly a shocking announcement.

We had a quick thread to get discussion going, but clearly a man of Shaun Hill's deserves a better send-off than that.  Whatever your opinion of Shaun Hill, he was involved in a fairly eventful three seasons.  He went 10-6 as a starter and created an amazing amount of debate about the QB battle he waged with Alex Smith, J.T. O'Sullivan, and others.

So, after the jump, we celebrate the brief shining star that was Shaun Hill and send him off on his way to the Motor City.  We're here to pour a 40 out for our homie as we've come to the end of the road....

Star-divide

The only stat that seemed to matter in the Shaun Hill era was the big W.  Even Hill's most ardent supporter realized the physical limitations.  Shaun Hill was never going to be a superstar.  The argument in support of Shaun Hill came down to the always immeasurable qualities of "leadership" and "being a winner."  Shaun Hill was the quarterback in ten 49ers wins.  While he was not going to put up monster stats, that was the stat that counted for many people.

The Shaun Hill era started rather abruptly in 2007, when Trent Dilfer went down with an injury against the Minnesota Vikings.  Hill replaced him and put up a very Shaun HIll type of line: 22/28 for 181 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT.  Nothing spectacular, but definitely solid.  The 49ers lost, but given the 49ers struggles up to that point, it was easy for people to grasp for something.  Over the next two games, Hill was 32/52 for 320 yards, 4 TDs, 1 INT, and 1 rushing touchdown, both in 49ers wins.

2008 started rather auspiciously for Hill as he was basically removed from the QB competition by Mike Martz before it really began.  Everybody remembers the "tired arm" excuse early in camp.  Just Turnovers came in and one could argue was the equivalent of Rick "Wild Thing" Vaughn before he got the glasses.  Of course, Week 8 was a turning point in that season, and might be viewed as a turning point for the franchise in the coming years.  After losing at the Giants, Mike Nolan was fired and Mike Singletary was promoted in his place.  JTO started against the Seahawks and had an abysmal first half.  Shaun Hill came out to start in the second half, and while the 49ers were battered by the Seahawks, Hill was an efficient 15/23 for 173 yards and 1 touchdown.

Hill finished out the season as starter, and the 49ers 5-3 record while he was starter helped Mike Singletary secure the permanent head coach position going forward.  I was emailing with drummer yesterday, and he made a good point about Hill.  He said Hill arguably helped both his head coaches.  He temporarily saved Mike Nolan's job at the end of 2007, and he helped Mike Singletary secure the head coach job the second half of 2008.  If Nolan lost out in 2007, one would have to imagine there was a good chance he was out the door, even with the Alex Smith injury early on.

The 49ers started off quite well for the 49ers as they raced out of the gates to 3-1.  Even in the loss, against a very good Vikings team, the 49ers were in it right to the end.  Shaun Hill wasn't wowing anybody, but he was operating as an excellent game manager.  Sure there was little upside, but he really wasn't hurting the team.  And yet, that would never be enough.  The 49ers were slaughtered by the Falcons, in a game that saw Hill go 15/38 for 198 yards and an interception.  In a half of action against the Texans Hill was 6/11 for 45 yards and the 49ers were trailing 21-0.  The second half began, and much to the surprise of many, Alex Smith was taking the snaps.

At that moment, while Hill would remain a 49er for several more months, the Shaun Hill era was effectively over in San Francisco.

If a team is going to win a Super Bowl with a game manager quarterback, the team needs some other aspect to be fairly great.  The Baltimore Ravens Super Bowl team was an example of that.  Maybe you don't need an all-time defense, but it better be really good.  And the 49ers defense is moving strongly in that direction.  However, the offense really did need some kind of kick-start.  While Alex Smith might not be the long term answer for the 49ers, he provided a kick start when it was badly needed.

In the end, Shaun Hill is what he is (don't you hate that cliche?).  He's more talented in football than I'll ever be, but in the NFL that's just not enough.  Hill's final numbers?  322/522 for 3,490 yards, 23 touchdowns, 11 interceptions, and 3 rushing touchdowns.  Certainly not bad, certainly not great.  We take it for what it is.

And while he may never be a great quarterback, I hope Hill finds immense success when he's not facing the 49ers.  My interactions with him are limited to the time I took the picture of him in the steroid-free picture.  However, in watching The Joe Show and reading as much as I can about him, Hill seems like the ideal teammate.  He's been a good soldier for the 49ers and withstood a fairly bizarre career path these last three years.  Players like that only deserve the best.

And so Shaun Hill, we pour out a 40 and wish you well in the future.  The post-jump stuff is mostly serious, while obviously we've included a bit of jest into it.  Accordingly, we close with a little early '90s Boyz II Men.  We have certainly come to the end of the road.

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Shaun Hill

I’m going to miss this guy. He certainly has been the best we’ve had in a long road of crappy QB play. We now step into the Carr/Smith debate. Next years first bad QB game is going to produce a flood of “Stupid Niners got rid of our only winning Qb of the last several years”. I am hoping the Niners can finally find a good QB. There won’t be post season play until that happens.

49ers and TOOL live, my personal Heaven!!!

by CW30 on Mar 15, 2010 7:43 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Best of luck, Shaun...

…you’re a class act who will be missed.

by Bigmouth on Mar 15, 2010 7:43 AM PDT reply actions  

Okay shaun hill was let go

he did’nt get murdered or pass away,but i get what you’re talking about and he will be missed me and my uncle had long conversations about hill and smith he was a smith fan i was hill fan.But detroit got a pretty servicable QB that can hold the fort down 4 a few weeks if your starter gets hurt.But it was time 2 turn the page and see what we have in alex plus it puts the focus all on alex if he doesnt get the job done the nate davis expirement is 2 began whew hoo not a big carr fan period.

by jayjonna415 on Mar 15, 2010 8:06 AM PDT reply actions  

It was a good ride while it lasted. The truth is that Shaun Hill probably got more out of his career with the 49ers than he would have gotten anywhere else, and we got more out of him than we could have ever expected. Thanks to his time here, he won’t be limited to third-string roles for the rest of his life and may even find himself competing for a starting job one day down the line. And he can’t feel bad about these paychecks, either.

It was a good ride. Ultimately, I think this was the right move for everybody. Once the team committed to Carr as the backup, I’m glad that McCloughan was good enough to get the trade done quickly. There’s nothing worse than the limbo Shaun would have been in otherwise.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 8:09 AM PDT reply actions  

steel cage deathmatches

between Smith and Carr just don’t have the same appeal as Hill vs. the World.

by Andrew Davidson on Mar 15, 2010 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

...hadn't really thought about that yet...

but the QB comp is about to have an entirely new dynamic.
We had the workingman’s QB, a late round pick, career backup duking it out against a #1 overall pick. Hill got extra points for the ‘cheer for the underdog’ pick, but we always wanted to see Alex, our big investment, pay dividends to the tune of 5000 yards and 40 TD’s. Hill….just win, and you’re good.

Now, we have 2 #1’s- both capable, but neither are really all that awesome. Both feel entitled (assuming a #1 overall pick should feel entitled), but only one has fan loyalty.

time to shine, Alex.

by t p on Mar 15, 2010 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

I have to believe that no matter what the coaches say, there won’t be an actual competition between Carr and Smith. If the job is not Smith’s to lose this season, there is something seriously wrong with the minds in charge of our roster. If they wanted to bring in somebody to challenge Smith’s role as the starter, they really shouldn’t have signed such a clear case of a backup quarterback.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

not so sure...

if they left the door open for a physically challenged QB (Hill), why would good management close the door on a more talented QB? We all know Carr’s stat line, but his story line’s not much different from Alex – #1 overall pick put into a horrible situation.
 
Competition is fundamentally sound. We have 2 assets, which one will provide the greatest return? Up to this point, we have no idea what Carr can give us.

by t p on Mar 15, 2010 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

At this time last year, it was unclear if Alex Smith would even be able to justify field time. Opening a competition between a guy who you might not even want to play and Shaun Hill isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement of Shaun Hill. And after “winning” the competition in the preseason, it took six games of playing at JaMarcus-Russell-2008 levels of futility for Hill to lose his job.

That indicates two things to me: 1) No matter what they say, Sing and McC go into the preseason with a clear idea of who their started is going to be, and 2) They stand by that decision until it becomes undeniably unjustifiable to do so any longer.

I mean, do I have to repeat that Shaun Hill gave us JaMarcus-Russell-like numbers last year for SIX games before he lost his job to Alex Smith? That’s a long time for a guy who is seen as a backup to suck as a starter before losing his job…

I agree that competition is fundamentally sound. I don’t think it’s good in this specific case. Carr, like Hill, is a known commodity. He has 80+ NFL games worth of film to look at to see that he’s a backup. If we brought in a backup to compete for the starting job in what should be a make-or-break season for Alex Smith, then why even bother with Alex Smith to begin with? If we did that, we obviously don’t think much of him.

I honestly believe that Carr was brought in here because he’s a backup who can run the system – not because he could be a starter – and because we need the security of a guy who can run the system IF Smith fails definitively.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’ve always wondered how announcing a QB competition is supposed to instill confidence in Smith. I assume that’s all a public facade.

by Amigo on Mar 15, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t think we should care about Smith’s confidence. If the team wanted to create a competition, that’s fine. Smith’s confidence shouldn’t be McCloughan’s priority. Winning should be. But if the team wanted to create a competition, they should have signed somebody better than Carr. Signing Carr says to me, “here’s our backup – we’re going to finish the Smith debate for good this year.”

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

not a carr fan, are you?

Not trying to rake anything here, but how, exactly, is Smith so clearly better than Carr? Not saying I sit on either side of the fence here, but Carr’s body of work (albeit very brief) was not any worse than Alex.

I totally agree that we’ve given Alex reign of the O, and he needs to take the reigns. If we justify his chance by saying he’s never had consecutive seasons under the same OC, then let’s go, lets do it this year. But, to say that Carr is just that bad is to refute the argument FOR alex- because Carr’s bad years were marred by a similar fate.

by t p on Mar 15, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

It has nothing to do with what I think of Carr. I actually like Carr, and I always have. But no GM in their right mind would sign Carr as anything but a backup at this point in his career. He’s basically post-30-year-old damaged goods. Whatever his ceiling may be, the safest bet is that his potential was spoiled long before he turned 30. So I think he’s a backup. I like him, and I always have, but it’s hard to look at a guy who hasn’t produced at anything resembling league-average levels since before Alex Smith was even in the league and think, “yeah, I want that guy to start on my team.”

So to me at least, it seems pretty clear that Carr was a backup and was brought in to be a backup. I mean, unless the powers that be on this team are psychotic. In my view, that is.

The other thing is, and I’ll repeat myself again: Shaun Hill had to perform at bottom-of-the-barrel levels for a month and a half before he lost his job to the guy McCloughan still sees as the future of the team. He had to be absolutely horrible for a month and a half to lose his job to the future of the team.

So with that in mind, exactly how poorly and for how long would Alex Smith have to play to lose his job to a guy who has virtually no prospects as the future of any team? I think he’s got a good five to six regular-season games leash on that level of horribleness before we cut the cord on it.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

hey now...

we’re celebrating Shaun today, let’s keep his stats out of this!

I would raise 2 points:
Shaun still beat out Alex in camp, so there seems to be something unsavory about Smith on the practice field if it took nearly 6 weeks to bench hill.

Carr was the first pick of an expansion franchise, forced to start with all sorts of mismanaged athletes all around him. He failed in that role, and spent 3 years as an apprentice. Damaged goods? yes. Freshly seasoned? Yes. he could surprise….

by t p on Mar 15, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t think the team left Hill as the starter because they had little faith in Smith, but the team was winning.

They beat the reigning NFC Champions Cardinals in the first game of the season after losing to them in close games the previous season.

Then they beat the Seahawks with the running game and defense that Singletary wanted the team to be molded on before anyone knew the Seahawks where going to be awful.

Then came the miracle Favre throw game when the Niners where leading until the last :12 seconds of the game against a team that a lot of people believed was Super Bowl bound.

Then the Rams where lead to the slaughter in SF. They started 3-1 with Hill and everyone was feeling good about the team. There was no reason to replace Hill with Smith even if the coaching staff thought Smith was better. The important thing was that they where winning with Hill. That might seem weird but why fix what isn’t broken? Smith didn’t look that good in training camp.

Then came the Falcons game without Gore playing. Without Gore playing the Falcons game plan was fairly simply; stack 8 guys in the box the entire game because Hill can’t execute throws longer then 10 yards. Before we know it its 45-10. The Texans saw what the other teams did to combat Hill and pulled it off stunningly. Smith comes in and throws for 200 yards and 3 TD’s in the second half, Hill’s fate was sealed by that point.

I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff
Eat Shitake!

by Hoopers Judge on Mar 15, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Umm there is no way you should be comparing Hill to JaWalrus....

Russell was a turnover waiting to happen on every snap, and had next to no accuracy. Hill was about an average QB, while Russell was at the bottom.

by sanfranfanmdk on Mar 15, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

this

shaun hill never blew anyone away, but he’s a good field position QB, and with this Defense, that’s how it’s done.

by t p on Mar 15, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

In 2008, Russell had more TDs than INTs, and his INT rate was 12% better than league average.

It’s a perfectly reasonable comparison.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Umm you look at one year he played...

which was average at best, but just happen to look at that ONE year because it happens to be his best, ignoring his career as a whole, which is abysmal. How about we look at his most recent year, 2009: QB rating-50, completion -48.8, 3/11 TD/INT ratio, plus 9 fumbles…all in 12 games….NOT a reasonable comparison, sorry…Russell is battling for title of Worst Starting QB in the league

by sanfranfanmdk on Mar 15, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I never said that he was as bad as JaMarcus Russell – full stop. I said that he played at JaMarcus Russell 2008 levels. I was very specific about the comparison I was making, and I’ll make no apologies for it. You’ll notice that I was also not talking about any of Shaun Hill’s other seasons. I was only talking about Shaun Hill’s 2009 season.

Shaun Hill’s 2009 was very similar statistically to Russell’s 2008.

I stand by the idea that it’s a perfectly reasonable comparison. If you look at the careers of the two players in a broader scope, things change, but I was specifically talking about how Hill performed in 2009 – why he lost his job in 2009. And that was because he wasn’t playing any better than a guy like Russell could do at his best.

I completely understand being disgusted by the comparison. But that’s exactly why I made it. Shaun Hill lost his job because he played like crap. And I think we can agree playing like JaMarcus Russell – at any point in his career – is playing like crap.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, i re-read what you wrote...

and I am sorry I missed how specific you were being. However, looking at Hill’s 2009 season, his first 4 games were well above and beyond Russell standards, he (and a lot can be put on the team) had a bad 1 1/2 games that brought his overall stats down. I really don’t think having a 4/1.5 Really good/bad game ratio should have been reason for him to lose the job, it was more or less Sing trying to cover his, and Raye’s, butts.

by sanfranfanmdk on Mar 15, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it was pretty obvious that a Shaun Hill-lead offense wasn’t going to be explosive. In the 3-3 run of Hill’s they beat teams with defense and Gore, not Hill’s throwing. Teams quede onto that and Hill’s weaknesses where exploited to a point where the passing game was god-awful. Singletary realized that this is becoming a passing-oriented league and made adjustments to a QB who could present a threat beyond 10 yards.

I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff
Eat Shitake!

by Hoopers Judge on Mar 15, 2010 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Are you seriously taking the worst QB in the league’s best statistical performance, matching it to Hill and saying they are equivalent?

Christ, this is the other end Norcal81’s post where he took the best QBs and compared their worst season to Alex Smith’s 2009 season to convey a sense of Alex’s supremacy.

We might as well continue this fallacy on and say Hill passed better than Jake Delhomme in 2009 therefore it’s reasonable to conclude that Shaun Hill is SB caliber starting QB.

Just ridiculous . . .

by bignerd on Mar 15, 2010 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

I never said that Hill was as bad as Russell. I said that he played just about as bad as Russell did in 2008. It’s a clean comparison. It makes no judgments about the players.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

You cannot be serious?

Again, you are still twisting the stats and time periods to parlay Hill in the negative mold of JaMarcus Russell.

Did you ever qualify that JaMarcus Russell played like a half decent QB at the end of 2008? The Raiders offense was actually semi-effective and the team won some games? No, because you are trying to associate Shaun Hill with 2009 Worst QB Ever JaMarcus Russell.

by bignerd on Mar 15, 2010 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think you’re reading a lot more into what I’m trying to do than what I’m actually trying to do.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 16, 2010 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

And what I mean is, I said something that was obviously designed to get a reaction… and I didn’t hide the terms of that or try to be misleading – I was very clear in saying ONLY Russell 2008 and ONLY Hill 2009… but, yes, it was obviously designed to get a reaction, and you seem to be trying to expose me for doing that. Well, I mean, I wasn’t hiding from it. I was very open about it. I would hope that any 49ers fan with half a brain would recognize that Shaun Hill and JaMarcus Russell are not in the same league outside of some fairly limiting contexts. The fact that I’m taking advantage of those contexts should be apparent to anybody. I’m not trying to trick anybody. I’m just assuming that people aren’t dumb enough to see my comment and think, “Oh god, Hill is as bad as Russell!”

Shaun Hill played very badly in 2009, and a lot of people put their blinders up to that. Making the Russell comparison is obviously not honest in a broad sense, but it’s not designed to be completely honest in every sense. It’s designed to knock blinders off of people. Russell at his best is as good as Hill at his worst – and when Hill is playing at his worst that is not a good thing.

Last year, Hill was playing at his worst. And he was doing it over an extended period of time. And that’s why he lost his job.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 16, 2010 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

And I actually don’t really like TD/INT ratio because it lies. It’s much more important for a winning team to score touchdowns than it is to avoid interceptions. Most of the playoff quarterbacks this last season weren’t particularly good at limiting interceptions, but they were great at producing touchdowns.

For example, I quarterback who throws 10 TDs in 16 games, but only throws 7 interceptions will be much less valuable to his team than a quarterback who throws 20 TDs with 14 interceptions in the same number of pass attempts. The TD/INT is exactly the same, but the first quarterback sucks and the second one is pretty good.

That’s why I look at TD% and INT% separately instead of TD/INT. A good TD% will always be more valuable than a good INT%.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

(Which is actually an analysis that proves part of why Donovan McNabb might be overrated… and as maybe the most energetic McNabb supporter on the site, I’ll gladly admit that.)

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Of course 3/11 TD/INT ratio is hard to ignore lol

those are the actual stats, not a percentage, complete incompetence doesn’t lie lol

by sanfranfanmdk on Mar 15, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Percentages are stats, and they say exactly the same thing. In 2009, Russell was almost 40% worse than average at throwing TDs. He was god-awful at it. He was also about 20% worse than league average about throwing interceptions last year.

Which is all to say that he was better at not throwing interceptions last year than he actually was at throwing touchdowns. He was really, unspeakably bad last year. The percentages back that up perfectly.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Old English

Pouring it, drinking it… dueces!

Let's make a good team, a Great Team!

by chriscream on Mar 15, 2010 8:21 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

That picture is a little much.

The dude isn’t dead, he’s just playing on a crappy team now.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Mar 15, 2010 8:23 AM PDT reply actions  

post

Should I have put /sarcasm in the title or in big huge font?

by David Fucillo (Fooch) on Mar 15, 2010 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

actually I just noticed the 40

and it’s much funnier now.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Mar 15, 2010 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Pour out a little liqour ould have been more appropriate and waaay more hilarious, b ut there is language in it that is inappropriate, nevertheless...

HILARIOUS

Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.

Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.

by rlott#42 on Mar 15, 2010 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

This thread:

…really? =\

"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan

by shlecko on Mar 15, 2010 8:29 AM PDT reply actions  

Over the top

Had to go out with a cheesy flourish. After all, we’re talking about a guy who really wasn’t that great a QB and yet inspired a lot of passion. Over the top closure was necessary in my opinion.

by David Fucillo (Fooch) on Mar 15, 2010 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

The really sad truth is

that the end of the Hill era doesn’t end the QB controversy in Niner land.

by WC-Ninerhead on Mar 15, 2010 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

It really should, though.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Just wait for the Smith vs Carr debate in camp

and see how many cries for Davis to get his shot…

by WC-Ninerhead on Mar 15, 2010 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, I’m absolutely positive that Singletary will talk about a competition, and I’m absolutely positive that the fans will be calling for Davis almost from day one, but I don’t think it will mean anything.

Singletary called last offseason and open competition between Hill and Smith, too, but it was all just words. Hill was the starter going on, almost no matter what happened in camp, and it was his job to lose from that point on. I think we see the same thing with Carr/Smith this year. They’ll talk about a quarterback “competition” but the reality is that Smith will be the starter until he loses the job.

And the media will eat up the controversy, and the fans will be all rah-rah Hill-woulda-won we-want-Davis Smith’s-a-bum.

But as long as the reality is that Smith’s the starter until he loses the job, no matter what anybody says to the media, I’ll be happy. We have to put a definitive end to the Alex Smith debate this year, and that’s the only way to do it.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh lord, the typos….

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

If Smith has any issues in camp

and or Carr shines like a stud, you can bet your sweet bippy that there will be a controversy and true competition. I am not a Smith hater however I am in no way sold on him as the QB that will get us to a winning season and the playoffs. So with that said I do believe that Sing and the gang will make every effort to field that best team they can with the talent that have in camp and would do the team and the fan base a total dis service if there was no real competition for the starting job. As we saw last year there is no guarantee that the guy starting the season will finish the season as the starter.

by WC-Ninerhead on Mar 15, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think if that happens there will be a public controversy. But come opening day I’ll bet dollars to cents that Singletary holds a press conference where he has to explain that “we just thought that after taking everything into account, Alex gives us the best chance to win.”

I really don’t doubt there will be a public controversy and public debate no matter what the circumstances. But in my opinion, Alex Smith would have to be horrible to lose the job in the preseason. Like, he’d have to be 2005 Alex Smith bad.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Smith will be the starter until he loses the job.

I disagree. Not with Smith starting…that’s not what I mean. You’ll have to remember that Hill didn’t “win” last year’s QB competition. Both guys looked pretty crappy in pre-season, and neither were exceptionally impressive in camp. Had Smith played better, he could have easily won the job going into week 1. Similarly, I think that Carr, assuming he can play really well and wow some people in camp, can easily take the job for himself.

I don’t think that it would take Smith losing the job for Carr to win it.

Of course, that doesn’t mean that I think Carr will win it. Though I’m nearly positive that Smith won’t win it. The most likely outcome is a repeat of last year where both guys are meh and Smith gets the job by default, being the incumbent starter.

"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan

by shlecko on Mar 15, 2010 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Last season was a competition

Alex Smith did nothing in preseason to win the job and Hill won by default.

by bignerd on Mar 15, 2010 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

IIRC..

Smith had a hand injury (a thumb maybe) that kept him from taking snaps. In fairness to Smith, he was out of football for almost 1 and a half years prior. That doesn’t mean that I think he will last the season. I think the 49ers will make another QB change mid-season, due to injury or ineffectiveness. If Gore sustains another injury that will keep him out for a few games early in the season, then take a QB change to the bank.

Well, we're waiting....
(for David Carr)

by drummer on Mar 15, 2010 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, my opinion is clearly and has clearly been that while it was a “public competition” there wasn’t actually much of a chance that anybody but Shaun Hill was starting in week one. I may be completely off-base about that, but it’s what I believe about the way things went down last year. The fact that Alex Smith played poorly enough that it didn’t matter is another issue altogether.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 16, 2010 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

It’s not going to be the coaches that make the controversy, but fans trying to argue that Carr is a better option the Smith. We’re going to see it on TV and on sports radio that some percentage of fans want Carr, not because his better then Smith, but because he isn’t Smith.

I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff
Eat Shitake!

by Hoopers Judge on Mar 15, 2010 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

goodbye Shaun. You were a good soldier.

If you don't like Brandon Medders you're not a true fan.

by wjackalope on Mar 15, 2010 8:42 AM PDT reply actions  

Using the term “good soldier” without irony is one of my new favorite things to do.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

yeah

I mean, he really was a good soldier. Did his job when called on, didn’t complain when he was replaced. A professional in every sense of the word.

If you don't like Brandon Medders you're not a true fan.

by wjackalope on Mar 15, 2010 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

Goodbye Shaun.

I will not miss your noodle arm, or your passes that come down like a punt. But I hope the best for you in Detroit.

by renke81 on Mar 15, 2010 8:51 AM PDT reply actions  

Goodbye Shaun of the Red...

He played his role well. One some games, and shook the dust out of Smith ( maybe) So fair well dude, and I think you might get another shot some glory in Detroit.

by WC-Ninerhead on Mar 15, 2010 8:59 AM PDT reply actions  

Only since you mention it: Shaun of the Dead may be the only romantic comedy that has no kissing in it at all. I actually haven’t confirmed this exactly, because I haven’t watched the movie since I thought of this, but I’m almost positive that there is no on-screen kissing in that movie.

To further thicken the plot: In both of the Wright/Pegg/Frost movies, I’m pretty sure that the only two people who do kiss, are ostensibly killed for kissing “on-screen” (at the theater, in Hot Fuzz).

I wonder if Wright/Pegg/Etc. don’t like on-screen kissing.

Or it could just be a coincidence. Probably a coincidence.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think there is a peck

at the very end, when they sit down to watch TV.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Mar 15, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

I could be wrong though.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Mar 15, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think that’s the only place that one could possibly be. Luckily, “re-watching Shaun of the Dead in order to check pointlessly obsessive theories” is hardly something I mind doing. What a good movie.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

yeah it's great

however, I think Zombieland has passed it on my list of favorite zombie movies.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on Mar 15, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

May the force be with you, Shaun Hill....

sorry, i just had to do it. But seriously, he was a great guy, a great leader (i don’t think anyone will forget the 10 yard, helmet-less scramble against Arizona for a 1st down on MNF), and a better option at QB than most people would give him credit for. You will be missed.

by sanfranfanmdk on Mar 15, 2010 9:00 AM PDT reply actions  

Hill was a great 49er.

He did a good job as long as the teams the Niners were playing against didn’t know to anticipate (and to take advantage of) his obvious physical limitations. I’m not sad he’s gone, and that he managed to get us a draft pick (!), but I’m thankful for what he did when he was at the helm.

Jason Hill is turning the corner!

by grantmp on Mar 15, 2010 9:02 AM PDT reply actions  

Good for him,

he get’s too continue his dream , one that many of us would have loved ……..

Kewl

by Edggy on Mar 15, 2010 9:16 AM PDT reply actions  

Oh No!

Does that mean I have to change my user name?

by ShaunHillQB1 on Mar 15, 2010 9:17 AM PDT reply actions  

Keep it. Never forget.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

lol

Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.

Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.

by rlott#42 on Mar 15, 2010 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Stand-up guy**

** Except for when he got sacked.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Prepare for more of that with Carr

He’s a walking concussion. Do two #1 draft picks = postseason? Let’s hope so.

by Amigo on Mar 15, 2010 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Luckily Carr won’t be starting! So it’s no biggie.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

noodly appendages

maybe we worshipped him unjustifiably, but is he worth the thread? hells yes!
sucks that he had to go to a dump like detroit (sorry michiganites), but at least he’s in a good football situation.

by t p on Mar 15, 2010 9:34 AM PDT reply actions  

That bottle....

Doesn’t have a label and the liquid although yellow doesn’t appear to be carbonated…..

Did you just pour out some piss for your homie by mistake?

I know what I'm talking about, I started at right guard for the 1992 College Park Falcons.

by Johnnysixnut on Mar 15, 2010 9:40 AM PDT reply actions  

Visual storytelling, my friend.

Fooch was trying to suggest that we pissed away a great opportunity by trading Hill. We pissed it away right into a bottle. After which we poured out the bottle.

It’s a complex metaphor, I’ll admit. But that’s what makes it so rewarding.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Shaun Hill “I’m 100% steroid free, and I got 40 ounces of urine to prove it!”

by t p on Mar 15, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’ll always remember that play he lost his helmet and still fought for the first down.

by ssbase21 on Mar 15, 2010 9:52 AM PDT reply actions  

just for fun

here’s the alternate version of the graphic:

If you don't like Brandon Medders you're not a true fan.

by wjackalope on Mar 15, 2010 10:42 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

haha!

I particularly like the look on his face…can only imagine what he’s thinking, and I’m not even going to try for sake of site decorum. Rec’d for grabbing the perfect photo.

by t p on Mar 15, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

actually didn't even think of that

made the other one first and just swapped photos for this one

If you don't like Brandon Medders you're not a true fan.

by wjackalope on Mar 15, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Man, the Niners must really be mad at him! Trading him to the Lions is cold…

"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott

by ZeroIndulgence on Mar 15, 2010 10:56 AM PDT reply actions  

Train

Ultimately Shaun Hill is the locomotive train. It took a long time for him to reach the west coast, he was always unsuited to the territory of Montana, it was apparent he was built for functionality not style, and ultimately he was displaced by the Carr.

LondonNiner - member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010.

by LondonNiner on Mar 15, 2010 11:44 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

and then, sent to Detriot…home of the car?

by t p on Mar 15, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nice ...

Missed that one, drat. To be honest, I’m now retiring from making jokes about Carr/car. I’ve tried two and realise that (it isn’t that funny and (b) our new No 5 has a two-year contract and it might get kind of old :)

LondonNiner - member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010.

by LondonNiner on Mar 15, 2010 12:02 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

If Shaun Hill starts any games

in Detroit this season I’ll be attending Ford Field to watch first hand the resurrection of the Lions franchise. ;)

by Andrew Davidson on Mar 15, 2010 12:16 PM PDT reply actions  

He’s currently undefeated at home as a starter for the Lions.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

HEZ A WINNAR!!!!!!

If you don't like Brandon Medders you're not a true fan.

by wjackalope on Mar 15, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

What I find funny..

Is that IIRC, one of the reason’s Linehan took the DET job over SF was the talent at QB in SF. Some serious irony there.

Well, we're waiting....

by drummer on Mar 15, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

good luck Shaun Hill

thanks for playing hard and being funny on the Joe Show

"The Football The 49ers Team has The excitement of the bear, the velocity of the deer and strenght of the buffalo.

by 49erLou on Mar 15, 2010 12:20 PM PDT reply actions  

Preseason should be interesting to watch

Two #1’s duking it out. Wouldn’t it be funny if Nate pulls out the upset .He should at least be given a chance to compete cause we already know what Smith and Carr can do and have done.

by LASVEGASNINER on Mar 15, 2010 12:27 PM PDT reply actions  

For what it's worth ...

… Carr just tweeted a pic of his new jersey at twitter.com/DavidCarr8, confirming both his new number and the fact his twitter name is now out of date.

LondonNiner - member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010.

by LondonNiner on Mar 15, 2010 12:32 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

100% steroid free

Great write up, Fooch. Best of luck to you in the future, Shaun!

by Haggardninja on Mar 15, 2010 12:52 PM PDT reply actions  

The "is what he is" cliche...

I always tell people that I avoid the “is what it is” quality at work because it what it means is there is a lot of isn’t in it. Hill had a lot of isn’t in his game, but it wasn’t leadership he lacked. He was a huge part in keeping a team in serious turmoil together after Nolan was fired, actually was productive in Martz’s offense (which is even more of a testament to that offense), and helped the much maligned Alex Smith get back onto the field. There are more positives with Hill being a part of the 49ers then there are negatives, but sometimes positives can’t overcome physical limitations. If Hill had Jeff George’s arm, then things might have been different for him. Hill is the anti Jeff George, yet in the NFL, even that isn’t good enough.

Well, we're waiting....

by drummer on Mar 15, 2010 12:57 PM PDT reply actions  

I’ll always remember Hill fondly.

And, actually, I’ll always remember Jeff George fondly, for getting so close to rebuilding his image and his career at the end there. It seemed like one day he just turned a corner with his attitude, but it was a little too late to make a difference in the arc of his career. His playoff run with the Vikings is still one of my fondest memories as a kid. I was rooting for him hard back then.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

George had one of the prettiest spiral's I have seen...

form an NFL QB. I saw a segment on TV where he explained his unorthodox delivery and release, where he had his index finger placed on the tip of the football. It was the kind of throw coaches in Pop Warner would correct. But it was effective for him, and he could chuck the rock down field.

Well, we're waiting....

by drummer on Mar 15, 2010 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Imagine, for a moment

Jeff George’s arm combined with Shaun Hill’s moxey. Too bad QBs aren’t made of play-do.

by Andrew Davidson on Mar 15, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Play-D’oh!

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL

Well, we're waiting....
(for David Carr)

by drummer on Mar 15, 2010 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

I liked Jeff George at the end of his career

Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010

by smileyman on Mar 15, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I remember his Raiduh daze..

Gruden would send in the play, George didn’t like it and audible. The results weren’t in George’s and the Raiduhs favor. He got canned because he blindsided Gruden and the Raiduhs on KNBR, telling the morning host that was injured and could be out for the season, which was news to the Raiduhs.

The 49er flipside to that was the 49ers saying Hill was injured in the pre-season, which was news to Hill.

Well, we're waiting....

by drummer on Mar 15, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL, now that’s a good contrast.

by bignerd on Mar 15, 2010 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

George did Gruden a favor...

by wussing out that helped George’s exit out the door. Gruden didn’t like George. George was one of Davis’ pet players due to his arm, but I remember watching a game where George audibles out of a Gruden play, and it blew up into a disaster. Gruden was pissed. It wasn’t the only time he did that during that game too. George’s problem was that he thought he was smarter than anybody else, even though he was really dumb as rocks. MIN had some solid Vets in place when he came in, and there was no way he was gonna pull off what he did prior to landing with them.

Well, we're waiting....
(for David Carr)

by drummer on Mar 15, 2010 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Goodbye Good riddence!

LONG LIVE ALEX SMITH!

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Mar 15, 2010 1:11 PM PDT reply actions  

Don't you wonder!

What would the comments would be like if Alex Smith went to the Lions instead of Hill. This thread would be full of hate messages toward Smith, and Laugh messages toward the Lions. Alex Smith has never given us anything less than the best he could give at a very young age, and got ripped and slammed for not living up the Montana/Young/49er standards. I hope he does well just to silence the hate mongers. If a 49er is lazy, a locker room trouble maker, a criminal waiting to manifest himself, etc. etc. etc., then he deserves our criticism, even our hatred, but if he lives well, plays hard, and gives his best, no matter what the results, he deserves our loyalty and respect.

by CorneliusJ on Mar 15, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Eh

Niners Nation is pretty tolerant of Alex Smith. Not too many haters here, unlike other places

Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010

by smileyman on Mar 15, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it’s pretty safe to say there are more Smith fans than Hill fans on this blog.

by Amigo on Mar 15, 2010 2:40 PM PDT reply actions  

agreed

more Alex Smith fans here than Hill fans. I will say this though, Shaun gave us everything he had for the time he spent as a 49er and I wish him well @ his next stop…Detroit.

As for Carr, I’m not sure if he’s an upgrade from Hill or if Nate moves up to the number 2 spot. All I really know is we’ve got another QB competition in the works for 2010 – 11’ and a so-so o-line providing the blocks up front. Unless we get the latter half corrected, it’s not gonna matter who’s under center.

by Doni S on Mar 15, 2010 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I really don’t like the idea that being a Smith fan and being a Hill fan are mutually exclusively. Seriously, I’m a fan of both of them.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I really liked what Hill did last year

That AZ game was epic. Unfortunately he’s the wrong kind of QB for what the 49ers are trying to do on offense.

Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010

by smileyman on Mar 15, 2010 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is david carr really going to wear #5?
That number should be retired.
Jef Garcia

by Rod Blogojevich on Mar 15, 2010 3:55 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Your opinion is wrong.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Mar 15, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL

"There is no pressure. Pressure only exists when you're not prepared."
-The Samurai

Alex Smith is garbage...

by redrum21225 on Mar 15, 2010 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hell no Garcia is a CFL Legend

by Rod Blogojevich on Mar 15, 2010 4:14 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Let the CFL retire his number

He didn’t do enough to have his number retired by the 49ers

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

by chikmagnet_565 on Mar 15, 2010 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

shaun hill

wasn’t that good of a qb, but he represents the emergence of he 9ers from out of the doldrums and back into contention. he’s appreciated for that. best of luck to shaun hill.

"There is no pressure. Pressure only exists when you're not prepared."
-The Samurai

Alex Smith is garbage...

by redrum21225 on Mar 15, 2010 4:02 PM PDT reply actions  

hill

shaun hill did his job. when he started we won more games than we lost. people will look to his stats and say he was not that strong which i can agree with. but who and what has david carr ever done other than be another #1 bust on our team. if we wanted to bring in someone then bring them in but carr ok soo is he competing with alex now? it just shows that the confidence in alex is not there, and if thats the case then pull this guy. what is the problem with moving on from alex smith. hill good luck to you and your career make some decent back up money at least now.

by mdeasy on Mar 15, 2010 4:06 PM PDT reply actions  

what is the problem with moving on from alex smith

There’s no problem with moving on from Smith – but there is a huge flaw in the thinking that we should move on just for the sake of moving on. We tried to go after Warner last year – that made sense. We didn’t go after guys like Cutler, Cassel or Vick last season because it would have been a dumb, costly mistake. Who were we going to replace him with this offseason? Delhomme? Guh. Quinn/Anderson? Blegh. Kolb/McNabb? Cost is too high.

As hard as it may be to accept as a fan, the 49ers “inaction” is the smart, responsible thing to do. When a franchise QB becomes available and we won’t have to sacrifice an arm and a leg to get him, I think we’ll make the move. Until then, it’s better to stick with cheaper, more reasonable options.

"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan

by shlecko on Mar 15, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was so upset about that!

That was my first NFL game and I had left my seat to go get a beer once Arizona took over. They had a 3 and out and I was standing in line getting my beer and he threw that pass. Longest pass play of the game and I missed it! I went to the last game of the year in St Louis and got to see the long TD pass to Vernon Davis which tied the single season TD record for a tight end. That helped.

by Haggardninja on Mar 15, 2010 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

One thought on this...

If Nolan lost out in 2007, one would have to imagine there was a good chance he was out the door, even with the Alex Smith injury early on.

From rumors that I read and heard, Nolan was out of the door despite Hill and the late wins, but ScotM convinced the 49er brass to keep him onboard. Then, Nolan blindsided ScotM with Martz.

Forget who has the trigger. Nolan forgot who had the hammer.

Well, we're waiting....
(for David Carr)

by drummer on Mar 15, 2010 11:08 PM PDT reply actions  

Bye Shaun Hill

Good luck in Detroit, that team does appear to be building something.

Sorta a dick move by the organization considering you played a huge part in not getting them fired. Lets hope this quest to find a good big arm QB doesn’t turn out like their quest to find “an aggressive coach” like when the fired Mooch.

by bignerd on Mar 15, 2010 11:31 PM PDT reply actions  

You better watch out..

You might get a recruit letter from ScotM because he sees the first three letters of your nic here. : )

Well, we're waiting....
(for David Carr)

by drummer on Mar 15, 2010 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m not a good character guy and he wouldn’t like my medical records.

by bignerd on Mar 15, 2010 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

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