Bad News For All Of Us Spiller Fans?!?
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 17, 2010 10:29 AM PDT
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I was reading an article on scout.com about Glen Coffee and the 49ers running game and found it incredibly insightful. The author explains why the 49ers will not go after a RB early in the 2010 draft, and a long with that i have put a few different aspects of the teams running philosophy together in order to see if the 49ers will indeed pass up on Clemson standout CJ Spiller.
The article does mention the fact that the 49ers went to the single back offense much more last season, this going against the trend in the NFL and making it completely unnecessary to have 3 running backs on the roster, all of whom are going to expect to touch the ball. It also raises another question; can you call Glen Coffee a bust after just 1 season? No matter how horrible that season must have been!. I will take a quote directly from the scout.com article "Coffee looked as awkward as a New York businessman on a surfboard, last season". However epic that quote may have been, i think it looks past a couple things. First off, Coffee was a rookie and not all rookie RB's succeed in the NFL. Secondly, Glen Coffee was good enough in the 2008 season to start of Mark Ingram at Alabama. In terms of rookie RB struggles let me look at that for a second.
Brandon Jacobs averaged 2.6 yards on 38 rushes his rookie season. Ray Rice averaged a full yard and a half less his rookie season that he did in his Sophomore season with the Ravens. What about Cedric Benson? Who averaged less than 4.0 yards per attempt in during his first 3 seasons with the Bears. Deangelo Williams averaged under four yards per rush his rookie season with the Panthers. The point i am attempting to make is the fact that although a lot of RB's have success their 1st season in the NFL, it doesn't turn out that way for some; many of whom end up having real good NFL careers.
We also must look at this aspect; does it make sense for the 49ers to spend another high draft pick on a RB after drafting Coffee in the 3rd round last season? As a team trying to build through the draft the 49ers cannot afford to concentrate on one position with two early picks, especially when they already have an all-pro starting at that position. It has been said that the 49ers FO is looking at more of a big RB to complement Frank Gore, if that is the case it doesn't make much sense to go after Spiller, who stands at 5'11 and 190 LB's is not that type of back
On the 0ther hand the 49ers have been linked to players like Leon Washington who is smaller than Spiller, so i am not entirely sure what is going on with that, or the 49ers front office in regards to this.
Add to all this the fact that many mock drafts have changed their opinion in regards to what the 49ers will do in the 1st round of the NFL draft
NFL Draft Site: OT- Brian Bulaga and DB- Earl Thomas
Draft Countdown: CB- Joe Haden and OL- Mike Iupati
NFL Draft Dog: DT- Dan Williams and OT- Trent Williams
I am not going to get into various mock drafts, that is for another thread. But i did list these three mocks because they are ones that i follow and have had the 49ers taking CJ Spiller in the not so distant past. If the 49ers are indeed looking for bigger backs to complement Frank Gore, they can be found later in the draft
Jonathon Dwyer: 6'1" 235 late 1st projection
Toby Gerhart: 6'1" 235 3rd round projection
Anthony Dixon: 6'1" 240 4th round projection
LeGarrette Blount: 6'2" 235 5th round projection
Charles Scott: 5'11" 230 5th round projection
Note: i have provided scouting report links to the prospect listed above
I guess it all depends on your philosophy and whether or not you believe CJ Spiller would be the best fit for the 49ers, i happen to believe that he would fit perfectly for the 49ers. One thing is absolutely clear; it is not a given that the 49ers will select CJ Spiller in the 2010 draft. In fact, it appears that the Spiller to San Francisco talk has did down a great deal recently and the chances of him becoming a 49ers has continued to decline. I think it is important for us as fans of this teams to take a look at the language coming from the 49ers front office in the next month leading up to the draft, that should be a telling sign of whether of not the San Francisco will draft Spiller.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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I think it is important for us as fans of this teams to take a look at the language coming from the 49ers front office in the next month leading up to the draft, that should be a telling sign of whether of not the San Francisco will draft Spiller
This isn’t true. They’re going to say 100 different things in between now and the draft. 49ers staff has interviewed Spiller, so that does mean there is interest. Despite what you’ve read they have expressed interest. He was one of the 60 players they interviewed at the Combine. And and another interview took place between the 49ers webpage writers and Spiller. There is definitely interest there and I don’t believe what you’ve read over the evidence that I have seen coming from the front office.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
And within that interview, he should fit the mold of the type of person they want on their roster.
Hard worker in school and on the field.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
And a man of faith… something Singletary likes in a guy.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
This stuff irks me
What does it matter what religion a player practices?
I wouldn’t mind a hindu that can go out there and dominate every single snap.
Atheists are less talented football players?
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 17, 2010 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Chill out
All it meant is that it would sit well with Sing. Didn’t McCloughan just recently mention something about drafting good character players? I didn’t say that would be the reason they’d draft him so relax.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
I'm not trying to take it out on you.
But if Singletary is going to decide on a player based on what religion he practices, then maybe he shouldn’t be an NFL head coach.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 17, 2010 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sure that's not his only criteria
or even that high on his list, but it goes back to the character thing that they want.
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
This
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 17, 2010 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Where did I say that they were?
It’s just one of the factors that SIngletary looks at
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
You made the connection in the post I was responding to.
ALthough it’s not clear if you were speaking for yourself or merely saying what you thought Singletary might think.
Saying what I thought Singletary might think
or what those who make that argument think that Singletary thinks.
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
Fair enough. Thanks for clarifying.
The notion that religious faith = good character is a bit of a personal bete noir of mine. If its something Singletary believes, then all I can do is hope that it’s far, far down the team’s decision-making chart.
I reject your ocmment because it isn't the case or wasn't the point.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
Nobody Said That
I don’t even get where you got that inclination from. Singletary is christian, clearly he’ll enjoy having other christians on his roster. Does that mean players faith holds more importance than their talent, not at all. He’s going to draft the best players for the team, he’s made that clear numerous times. Honestly, if Drew K had said Spiller was any other religion would you have even posted a comment?
"Until it's over, I'm not going to tell you it's over." - Nabby
I was singling out all the "experts" (not Drew K)
Who constantly state that “x player is Christian, Mike Singletary will draft him”
Some guy actually put together an article stating why it would make sense for the 49ers to draft Tebow.
If Singletary really is this [site decorum] then I don’t want him as the HC.
People are interpreting my comments wrong. It’s directed at the people who think Singletary will draft a guy just because he’s “a man of faith”.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 17, 2010 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions
People like Peter King perhaps? The man actually gets paid to write an article on why the Niners will select Tebow in the 1st round because Singletary likes the fact that Tebows a Christian. Simply weird because the i’m willing to bet that the majority of the players coming out of college are Christians themselves.
I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff
Eat Shitake!
by Hoopers Judge on Mar 17, 2010 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Me honestly i put peter king up there with peter vescey ( reporter for the NBA)
that these are 2 reporters that players just plain don’t like him ooh jim gray is another one .These reporters jump 2 conclusions and throw news out there even if there just rumors so when i hear comments from peter king i just don’t pay attention .
They don't say christian, they say strong in beliefs and faith, there is a difference.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
I’m sure that’s not how Sing evaluates players. Mass Media just takes the fact that Sing wears a little wooden cross around his neck that he would like a player like Tebow.
I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff
Eat Shitake!
by Hoopers Judge on Mar 17, 2010 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions
What makes think he is that dumb. I am sure he would only talk religion if a player brings it up to him.
He’s not preaching in the locker room.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
What does it matter what religion a player practices?
Christianity is based on faith not practice. I am a Christian and do not think it makes you a better or worse football player. I highly doubt sing would select an inferior player just because he was a Christian, if that was the case we’d be looking at Tebo.
I have finally accepted the fact that I will never win a McCoven award.
It’s Tebow… and no one was saying he’d be drafted solely on his christian faith. That’s a bit naive to think that.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
Now you can call me a tebow hater
but its something about the way he talks that turns me off its like that rah rah i’m going 2 do whatever i can 2 get better.And i don’t think all that he’s a great leader will translate in the NFL if he’s not making any big plays .Lol whats that QB name that played 4 oklahoma and went 2 the championship game i think they got blew out by USC and he did’nt get drafted whats his name somebody?
It isn't about religion, it's about faith, belief, not a particular belief. you can believe there is no God, as long as you are strong in what you believe in.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
Strong beliefs = character?
No way. To me it shows more character to be able to evaluate the evidence and decide you were wrong.
Evaluate evidence?
How is that stronger than the belief, wouldn’t you evaluate and than have your belief?
If I were GM, Ninersnation would call me the draft hustler.
Step 1 - Offer contract to Bushrod and give up my 49th pick.(RT)
Step 2 - move up to #5 Take Berry for BOTH first rounds and acquire a 2nd and 4th
Step 3 - 2nd round - M gilyard, 3rd - J Jerry, 4th AJ Jefferson, 4th Rafael Priest CB TCU, 5th Deji Karim, 6th - Alex Daniels DE Cincy, 7th Al Woods LSU
The guy graduated in 3 1/2 years… there isn’t a lot of people that can do that. And especially student athletes (two-sport athletes none the less).
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
Alex graduated in like 2 1/2 - 3
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Mar 17, 2010 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Myron Rolle.....
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 17, 2010 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I though we were naming smart players.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 17, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions
*thought
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 17, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Brains, and what? Not much talent there.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
Same as Alex.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 20, 2010 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Alex sucks up to date.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
Yea whatever drew
you could scream spiller from the roof tops all day long but that article is saying what ive been trying 2 tell ‘’’ all you people who pray at the temple of spiller """. That it makes no damm sense at all you no that no sense when you sometimes have 2 show somebody ‘’ by actually putting you’re finger by your temple,, why go that route again 4 a special teamer and ive always said special teamer 4 one reason because we just drafted a running back in the third round or do some of yall have what they call ‘’ selective memory ’’‘,If you go after spiller in the first round then why did you drat coffee and if your admitting you messed up drafting coffee (after one year mind you) then why are these same people making decisions 4 you again because now were saying that someone up there is miss-evaluating these draft picks and that person should be removed period.So all of you spiller lovers chew on that because the only way you will see spiller in a niner uniform is if he slips into the 2nd round and that’s not happening thank you you all have been served lol.
Are you all there? You are swearing again? After Fooch just warned you yesterday? Are you seriously that incapable of NOT swearing?
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
It's hard to read through...
but I’m damn sure “damn” isn’t a swear word….
4 : to swear at : curse —often used to express annoyance, disgust, or surprise <damn him, he should have been careful> <I’ll be damned>
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
And if youre going to be whinning about these words
that are not cosidered curse words your starting 2 put me out there like im some random fan that gets on here and start swearing like a sailor when im not like that ive never said the s word ,the f word .the b word , so give it a darn break would you
I have never disrespected anyone from
niner nation period second when i did drop the f bomb it was like this f!@@ck third when i did use that i was talking about porter from miami I got a memory like a elephant so if your going 2 say i just drop f—bombs then you DARN sure better put it in the right context now youre mis-leading people and trying 2 use your pull as influence ’ thats weak drew ’’
Hey drew i just personally wanted 2 apoligize
2 you and the niner nation if i offended anyone with these light curse words (if we can call them that )and even if i don’t agree with them it would be easy just not 2 say them at allk now that being said i still might yank your chain every now and them i can do it respectfully so with that im man enough 2 let it go and i hope your man enough 2 do the same and get back 2 bantering about the niners .
right..
but look at it comparatively… He could have used the F word or any number of words that can be seen as being very offensive. By using damn I feel he is at least restraining himself. Your comment made me conclude that he was using f*** and s*** profusely and made me sift through a wall of text to find them. To my disappointment I found the word damn leading me to believe that your comment is kind of an overreaction.
Seriously?
You are going to try and defend it? He’s been told several times NOT to swear but continues to push the limits every single day. I think Fooch has been more than patient in not dropping the hammer. He and HTS and other mod’s have warned against this wayyyyyy too many times. It’s simple for everyone else to grasp, not so sure why with this guy. It is how he is using the word is the problem… but regardless of your stand on whether or not that specific word is a profanity, it’s noted as such in the dictionary.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
Well techincally he did spell it wrong lol.....
but you should be trying to get him to correct his grammar and sentence structure, it hurts my eyes just trying to read what he writes lol
by sanfranfanmdk on Mar 17, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions
That's the hard part for me
not the use of “damn.” Jayjonna, are you posting from your phone or something? Please slow down and punctuate. I am interested in your comments, but, man, they are hard to read.
Alaska is a state, dammit! Can I get a Niner game on TV up here?
Kinglouie are you obese
that other kinglouie?
No, but if I keep eating all of this junk food I will be.
Need to cut back on the ice cream.
Alaska is a state, dammit! Can I get a Niner game on TV up here?
I REPEAT and you can pull every comment ive
made i have never used the b word , the s word .i have used the a word and when i did i put it like this @ss other than that i said hell and you cried about that so i stopped dreew just put it bluntly i yank your chain period and thats why youre crying but you try and mask it all up like im dropping f bombs and s bombs everytime i get on
Will Smith don't gotta cuss in his raps to sell records
well I do so freak him and freak you too.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Mar 17, 2010 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
So i won't say the d word the h word
never said anything worse than that but DREW YOU HEAR THIS CLLEARLY I WILL YANK YOUR CHAIN FROM HERE TO THE SEASON EVEN IN STUFF I AGREE WITH YOU IN WITH OUT USING ANY OF THE RATED G WORDS YOU CRY ABOUT
OK
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 17, 2010 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Stop whinning about defending
someone he’s giving his opinion drew ’ thats what we do in here ’’ lol.
well you haven't
his reaction just led me to believe you were. That’s all I’m saying. I just think he overreacted a smidge.
He could have used the F word or any number of words that can be seen as being very offensive. By using damn I feel he is at least restraining himself.
Completely and utterly flawed logic.
He also could have used the F word in lieu of other more offensive phrases (they’re out there). By using the F word, he would have been restraining himself…
“Honey, Jimmy got a C, we should take away his phone.”
“Hey, he didn’t get an F, so that means he’s a good student!”
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 17, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Where's your site decorum.
“Why’s Dick Butkiss always ridin’ me?” “Dick Butkiss, coach, he is cursing” – How High
That is not cursing and neither is damn.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
by rlott#42 on Mar 17, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm sure HTS said "damn" was acceptable
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 17, 2010 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not entirely sure.
But if he said it was acceptable then it’s acceptable.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 17, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions
drew my badd but now youre starting sound like a baby honestly
because you bubble just got burst and i don’t think no one would of said anything until you start whinning
Trust me, my bubble is far from “bursted”… it’s an opinion of nocal81 in a FanPost. Opinions don’t = fact. He’s reading in to a statement and trying to twist it in to a story. The 49ers have interviewed Spiller twice, and it probably wont be the last time they do so. If they didnt have interest, they would not go to the trouble. I could find some material on the net that contradicts this FanPost and make it work in the favor of them targeting Spiller. I realize there is a chance they dont get him, or someone else gets him before we would even have the chance, but I am not going to believe a FanPost with zero factual information regarding a specific player. The 49ers front office has stated several different things through the course of the offseason, and it’s not going to be the last time they say anything. That you can expect.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
You can throw all the pre-draft logics
you won’t 2 spiller will not be wearing a niner uniform unless he get cut three years from now 4 being a bust period and if the niners do draft you better say hello ‘’ to the j.j stokes era ’’ all over again.
Seriously, get an education, it will help your grammar problem.
I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff
Eat Shitake!
by Hoopers Judge on Mar 17, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I tried to be patient with it, and it seemed like he was attempting to get better but now it’s just gotten to the point of being flat out annoying. I skip over about 95% of his comments.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
What’s ‘flat out annoying’ is you getting your panties all in a bind over the word damn. Get a life already.
With a stable coaching staff, an improved cast of teammates and a healthy shoulder, Smith is officially out of excuses...
by riderless on Mar 17, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I Agree
Drew gets a little sensitive…sorry Drew…tissue?
No kiddin' fly by nite bloggers get lippy like they are in the blogosphere often!!
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
posts like this
Seriously, get an education, it will help your grammar problem.
i think this is worse than cussing. we’re all niner fans here, regardless of education, so I’m not seeing how this is any better than someone dropping a passionate word or 2.
Writing cuss words never means your being “passionate” about a topic, just makes you seem less credible and rather crude. One can be passionate without throwing out cuss words. It’s certainly different during game threads when there actually is action/drama or if your trying to use some minimal language for comedic affect. But using them in an off-season post about possible draft targets of the Niners shouldn’t warrant any “passion.” In other words, using curse words=passion is a fallacy.
I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff
Eat Shitake!
by Hoopers Judge on Mar 17, 2010 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Making smart !ss remarks about somebodies grammer and spelling
does’nt make you or anybody in here as passionet as the next fan and ive never claimed 2 be so overly passionet about the niners .This all started from "" damm" are you serious ‘’ damm ’’ but you allow people 2 chastise people on how there writing on there own ’ damm" computers and how they spell.And you let them do it in a disrespectful way and try to make a person feel dumb and thats cool are you kidding WTF type of back-handed comment is that if you whinning and crying about light curse words you better check these same people on how they address people on there grammer and spelling or are you just as stuck-up,stuffy,snobby,as the rest of them period!!!
by jayjonna415 on Mar 17, 2010 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks tp thats what i was trying 2 get
across to fooch and drew and them but they let and encourage comments like that .Now that smart remarks about grammer and spelling will get you popped in your mouth in person before a curse word like damm or hell.But they look at it as there doing you a favor they should just post a sign before you sign up ‘’ like join the niner nation were curse words are not allowed but we do allow comments about how dumb or stupid your grammers is and if thats not enough you can ask them were they raised in the ghetto on a 6th grade education but theres absolutetly no curse words ’’’ welcome 2 the niner nation.
This is a completely rude comment
I agree that he needs to properly punctuate and spell, but this is much MUCH worse than his swearing. I think you took it way too far.
Here's hoping 2010 is the end of our drought.
totally disagree
His not being willing to follow site rules by trying to adhere to proper grammar means that he’s not wanting to have an actual conversation with us. He’s been asked many, many times to stop typing gibberish and he refuses to do it. That tells me he’s getting a kick out of upsetting the readers of Niners Nation.
If he wants to write that way have him go to the webzone or somewhere else where they don’t care.
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
So who sat on youre face and made you GOD
just come out and say i hate when these black dudes get on here they don’t follow rules ‘’ like we trained them 2 " not 2 mention there un-educated and can’t spell, that’s whats really hanging underneath those smart snide remarks just on remark from dropping a n-bomb ive seen it all before .And since when did niner fans become some stuffy i’m smarter and well educated then you are .
Hey smiley tell the truth your
a closet racist come on show your true colors be a man say whats really on your mind i would respect more if you just let it out .And when did you become the voice of the nation you cats kill me you stuffy upper-crust weekend warriors kill me you hide behind this blog and think that makes you more of a fan.So when youre at the niners game (which i doubt) do you correct joe fan when he’s talking or try 2 chastise him from cursing no cuzz you would get popped in the chops if you did.
by jayjonna415 on Mar 17, 2010 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions
The guy has been asked multiple times to clean up his comments so they are at the least readable, but he hasn’t even tried. That means two things. His either very stubborn, which certainly isn’t needed in discussions; and he doesn’t seem to want people to join in and have an intelligent discussion with him. Or he gets a kick from watching people get irritated with having those eye sores clogging up the discussions.
I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff
Eat Shitake!
by Hoopers Judge on Mar 17, 2010 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions
49ers staff has interviewed Spiller, so that does mean there is interest. Despite what you’ve read they have expressed interest.
Didn’t they also not interview Crabtree last year before drafting him? So, there’s really nothing you can do now to rule out drafting anybody…
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 17, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I think you
are reading way too much in to a whole lot of smoke screen. Think of the draft as a game of poker.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
Right
alot of talk thats comes out of any front office at this point is a bunch of smokescreens. each FO trying to bluff another FO into revealing a truthful idea of what they are going to do.
by SuspendingBJ on Mar 17, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
I Disagree
At least for me i can tell a lot about what direction the front office is looking by oration and language. For example, i could tell that the 49ers would select Crabtree and not Oher is the former fell to #10, and that is exactly what happened. Scott M said earlier this off-season that the 49ers are going to look for “starters” out of the 1st round of the 2010 draft. Now i do understand that teams are looking for “starters” in the early to mid rounds of every draft. But, i interpret this as Scott M saying that the 49ers will be looking for starters for the 2010 season, meaning that the players they select will need to “compete” for for a starting role in 2010. CJ Spiller does not represent a player that will be starting this upcoming season, well with Gore trenched in as the #1 RB. If what Scotty M said rings true and my interpretation is correct; the 49ers will be addressing Safety, Corner, Tackle, Guard and maybe even WR (Dez Bryant) before they address RB
Do i believe in this philosophy? NO!!! Can this change over the course of the next month? YES!! Will it? Maybe
"Iess us expect nothing but greatness from ourselves"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 17, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
You can't take everything at face value this time of year
That is one of the key things I have learned in the many years of following pro football and more importantly the draft.
The 49ers are going to have their board set, and they aren’t going to waste anytime interviewing and bringing in players for no reason. That is a given. They don’t have time to waste. Whether it seems like a long time to us fans, it’s not a very long time for the front office, scouts, and coaching staff.
I recently read an article regarding 49ers Head Scout, Todd Brunner and the guy is all over the place. If Spiller is a guy they’ve talked to, you better believe there is some interest. Nothing has changed except for words. Think about it, why would the 49ers tell the world what they plan on doing. If they say they aren’t interested in someone (which they havent) but if they do, chances are, they are even more interested in them.
You draft to upgrade, and I just take McCloughan saying, “We’re looking for starters” as we’re looking to upgrade. Who’s to say that if they draft Spiller, that they don’t expect him to start in 2 years or so? There is no way to predict that and by you reading in to this, that is what you’re doing here. You can have your opinions, but that’s all they are. There is no truth to what you are saying here. It’s just your opinion, which is fine.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
Agreed
it is my opinion, but just because it is my opinion doesn’t mean their is no truth to it. I am not going to get into the semantics regarding each of our knowledge in regards to the draft, that would be foolhardy. And i don’t want to get into an extensive “argument” over what either you or i could read from the front office at this time.
I do believe that unless Scott M likes pointing out the obvious, which may be the case, for him to say “looking for starters” i would say that means for the 2010 season and obviously beyond, but more importantly the 2010 season.
The 49ers didn’t trade away two picks last season to acquire a player this season that will not be in the starter competition come training camp. Of course this is just my opinion.
"Iess us expect nothing but greatness from ourselves"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 17, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Now
i do i want Spiller? YES
"Iess us expect nothing but greatness from ourselves"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 17, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I want Spiller too
I don’t think the FO will say anything inconsistent. They don’t need to in order to be inscrutable. So far, it sounds like Spiller is still being considered. Disagree that he needs to be a starter right away. He could fill the returner need until the change in offensive schemes worked him into the lineup.
by DeathValleyCarl on Mar 17, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
And it makes sense that Spiller would be considered
After all, he fills a need that the team has publicly stated its interest in filling, namely KR/PR. He does have two strikes against him—namely that he’s not even 200 pounds, and that he’s slated to go in the 1st 20 picks. Those would be the reasons (along with his somewhat high pad level) that he wouldn’t get picked by the Niners as I see it.
Jason Hill is turning the corner!
190 plus is close enough to 200. if he were drafted I doubt he would return punts, that would be stupid.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
Disagree - I see him being used like Percy Harvin
When he becomes a starter or an integral part of the offensive scheme is when it would be stupid for him to continue returning (’cept maybe in the playoffs).
by DeathValleyCarl on Mar 18, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
I can see him done with punts and used on KR in his first season, worked for CJ.
If I were GM, Ninersnation would call me the draft hustler.
Step 1 - Offer contract to Bushrod and give up my 49th pick.(RT)
Step 2 - move up to #5 Take Berry for BOTH first rounds and acquire a 2nd and 4th
Step 3 - 2nd round - M gilyard, 3rd - J Jerry, 4th AJ Jefferson, 4th Rafael Priest CB TCU, 5th Deji Karim, 6th - Alex Daniels DE Cincy, 7th Al Woods LSU
Boo
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 17, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 17, 2010 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
We should get spiller and then scott and the yorks would be like matt millen of the west coast
and next year we can draft a running back again then we could have a hole staple of running backs i like that lol.Yea right.
Finally, someone making sense !
As well as all the NO votes. As I have said before, the FO loves this kid like Smith and are not willing to give up so soon. So lets get a starter now who can help Gore and Smith. A OL and CB can help relieve the pain we all suffer !
I think all the “NO’s” are an indication of a plan to divert attention are working for the front office. I am actually glad to see the no’s because it means it’s more likely they will go there.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
You keep telling yourself that.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 17, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Charles Scott
I was watching NFL network and showed Charles Scott on his pro day… he looks like a beast and late pick steal. If we want to pound the ball we should consider this guy.
Joe and Steve were under the same system for years... don't expect Smith to be super so soon.
Yeah, if you like super slow running backs. we may as well consider LeGarrette Blount while we’re at it.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
Drew,
I appreciate all the comments you bring to the table and you are a strong supporter of Spiller but the menbers don’t agree. Earlier they may have, but not now. You’re intitled to your believe and so be it. The fact is that they missed out of some REALLY good OL last year and now they playing catch up. Football Outsider prove how bad the OL is ( 32th ) .
But your input is also appreciated but know when you’re kicking the dead Beast to death.
by LASVEGASNINER on Mar 17, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Huh?
I stated my opinion on Charles Scott… what does Spiller have to do with my response to that? Please stay focused
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
Duh, on every poll you started,
you have him at 13th pick or to be precise , the #1 pick . Or you dispute that ?
by LASVEGASNINER on Mar 17, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I think your lost… what does that have to do with my comment about the LSU running back?
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
Don't change the subject
Do you or don’t you have the same support has you had in the past ? This segment is on " Bad new for all of us, Spiller fans. What are your feelings now ?
by LASVEGASNINER on Mar 17, 2010 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions
If you would have taken the time to read through the thread
(which is obvious you haven’t), you’d have your answer to that.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
Hey
Threads like this one have been turning me off of NN (and I’m a thoughtful, positive contributor). I have read the thread- and it is sad the kind of back and forth going on.
Whether the points that have been made are valid or not becomes completely irrelevant when every one is [site decorum] and moaning- comments just become immersed in whining.
Threads like this one make me miss KSWOF.
Chris Cohan- YOU'RE FIRED!
It's the opinion of a blogger here... it doesn't make it truth.
Can you not wrap your head around that?
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
Ok, I can agree with
So everyone opinion should be respect whether you agree or not. That’s what Iwas looking for ,Thanks !
by LASVEGASNINER on Mar 17, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
" Chuckle "
I expected This kind of respond. You’re unhappy, aren’t you ?
by LASVEGASNINER on Mar 17, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm peachy.
Do you really think you have an effect on my mood? I could not care less. This picture represents your lack of comprehension and ability to debate something in reasonable fashion
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
Lack of comprehension or ability ?
You cann’t handle a current conversation. This repesents your statement when someone doesn’t agree with your mixed opinion. Yes, I do “Chuckle” , when you are a ALL KNOW Additude ! I know you don’t care. As they say, You are a LEGION in our own MIND !!!!
by LASVEGASNINER on Mar 17, 2010 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
WOW,
I’m Impressed ! Now let everyone know what you saying !
by LASVEGASNINER on Mar 17, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
OK, I had my fun with you !!
But, You don’t forget., this is the same old BS you given everyone you have disagree with. Be Careful, Everything flows down here from now on !!!! I been watching !!!!!!
by LASVEGASNINER on Mar 17, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey drew why don't we just see if we can trade
are 1st round pick 2 jerry jones 4 felix he’s proven special teamer slash special teamer.You know why the niners want 2 that is because it makes no sense to give such a high pick 2 someone who’s not going 2 get that much run .Those type of players are divas and they always getting injured 4 a few games a year if the niners do that there going 2 regret it in the end.
As a bonus, Blount could probably beat up the other team before the game.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Opinion
At this point, I really don’t want the Niners to draft Spiller that badly. Sure the guy is an impact player and he will get on the field at the same time as Gore, but I don’t think he’s absolutely necessary. If he’s BPA at 13 but there’s another need position that isn’t a huge reach, I’d take that guy over Spiller. If he’s still there at 17 and he’s definitely BPA at that point, I would have to see who’s available and what their value is. Honestly, I could live without Spiller if they passed on him.
Graham isn't that fast.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 17, 2010 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
No but he's quick and thats what you want from a front seven player
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
Don't get me wrong, I like Graham
But mostly because of his Motor.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 17, 2010 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions
So who your taking drew with that 17th pick
spiller or ‘’ Mr. Mcflip ’’ jason-pierre-paul who you grabbing.
In the first 7 yards he is a hemi.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
What is the deal with the formatting?
Is there anyway you can tighten up that huge space in between text and the poll?
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
Seriously… I have no idea what you are talking about. I think you have issues in follwing comments. Try to read and understand instead of post things without caution.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
Read your question
Looks more like a question than a respond OR ?? Help ???
by LASVEGASNINER on Mar 17, 2010 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Me personally i would pass on spiller
and try 2 grab j.best or jacoby ford in the 2nd around and grab a OL and a safety in the first .Are offense have game breakers are OC and are offensive line was one of the reasons why didn’t score as much ( and shaun hill noodle arm hate 2 say it ) we had no game plan on special teams and it got 2 the point when tried everybody but the ball boy .But that should’nt put us in a panick 2 reach 4 a game breaker and ill give spiller that he is a game breaker but getting him would stunt coffees career i belive coffee will become a really good RB but we have 2 give him the oppertunity,
It's a crap shoot...
Bottom line is that if Scot McG stays true to his BPA philosophy it will simply come down to how high they have spiller rated on their board…Last year no one anticipated crabtree falling to 10 and it completely changed our draft direction. This year someone that the 49ers have ranked higher than spiller may fall to us again, you never know…Since we have the luxury of having two 1st round picks I see no problem with us finding a solid RT/G at 17 so why not take Spiller at 13, at the very least he will solve our special teams issues…Scot seems like a smart guy and I’m pretty sure he realizes the recent successes of speedy backs like C. Johnson. He’ll take Spiller if he’s the BPA on their board…
So what happens if mcclain ( ILB alabama )
falls i got this feeling he will would we draft him if he’s bpa and we got dept at this position ???
Some people feel like if there verbish
and how they put a sentence or there spelling gives there opinions ahead of others or maybe they can put stats with there opinions and i spend more time critzing curse words and how that may offend others but let others critize spelling ,grammer and how they punchuate sentences and THIS IS NOT OFFENSIVE to OTHERS get this straight drew and fooch if you want me 2 stop what you deem curse words then you better check some of these people who take pot shots on people GRAMMER because if you don’t you will be showing favortism to people because you can write perfect sentences or your grammer is spot on you better be fair all the way around period!!
Seriously
Periods. Commas. Semi colons. Something!
"Until it's over, I'm not going to tell you it's over." - Nabby
I want to read you're comments but I can't!
I want to know your opinion(s) but if I see a huge garble of incorrectly spelled words, I end up not reading your comments. Punctuation please!
Here's hoping 2010 is the end of our drought.
Its a way 2 ask someone to do something
you came off kind of hostile to the point that you got jerks agreeing with you in a hostile manner.So will take in what you said but you need 2 change the way you approach someone if you want them 2 change something there doing cool.
No Disrespect
I was not trying to be a jerk or hostile. Just as winners said, it’s a whole heck of a lot easier to interpret what anyone says when there’s punctuation to break everything up. Stream of conscience is fine in person, but in writing it’s killer.
"Until it's over, I'm not going to tell you it's over." - Nabby
Spiller got a 10 on his wonderlic score
just letting it be known
1.Brandon Graham 1.Charles Brown 2. Syd Thompson 3.Torell Troup 4.Andrew Quarless 5.John Jerry 6.Mike Kafka 6. Jake Sharp 7.Preston Parker
He graduated early so is Clemson education, weak?
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
This is fairly arbitrary
do what? He just threw it out there and your reaction comes out in a mildly hostile manner. Or that’s just the way it sounds.
Here's hoping 2010 is the end of our drought.
Im a big coffee fan i feel
like because we had a terrible special team this past season that people are reaching 2 high 4 spiller .I think that is a poition that we have 2 address but not with neither of our 1st round pick we can still get a quality special teamer/rb in the second round even the third i like spiller alot but not 1st round money.
I don't see how you can spend a top-20 pick on a guy you don't expect to be an every-down player when you have our needs
by Ronaldinho on Mar 17, 2010 3:25 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Quiet, you're being too logical
1.Brandon Graham 1.Charles Brown 2. Syd Thompson 3.Torell Troup 4.Andrew Quarless 5.John Jerry 6.Mike Kafka 6. Jake Sharp 7.Preston Parker
Seriously
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 17, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Needs over BPA rarely work out. Most teams draft for value… more bang for your buck. Spiller provides that in several areas
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
"Needs over BPA"
This isn’t the NBA, where I’d agree with you 100%. The NBA is about stars. You think you can get a star, you take him.
But the NFL isn’t like that at all.
First of all, the talent gap between picks you can make at a given position is usually pretty small. Sure, every so often a top player falls, and there are busts, but on average, the gap from player to player in the NFL is actually pretty small over the first two rounds.
Second of all, I’m not sure that Spiller is necessarily BPA. What he is likely to be is the best skill-position player available. There’s a strong tendency to overrate skill-position guys, because they make explosive plays, they make more highlight reels, and they pile up the stats.
But does that make them better than the lineman who springs them free for those runs? It’s not so easy to say. It’s a lot harder than comparing, say, an NBA power forward with an NBA two-guard.
Furthermore, quick, undersized multidimensional RBs don’t have the best track record of transition from college to the pros. Reggie Bush, Dexter Carter, etc. Could Spiller buck that trend? Absolutely. Is it a sure thing? Absolutely not.
This isn’t the NBA, where I’d agree with you 100%. The NBA is about stars. You think you can get a star, you take him.
But the NFL isn’t like that at all.
What world have you been living in? Everyone with the exception of Al Davis drafts for value. I have seen SEVERAL things throughout the course of the offseason to validate that statement. Value and BPA over need. Scot McCloughan has recently been noted as saying so…
Don’t believe me? Read here
Q: In years past the 49ers have stuck with the common phrase, "We will take the best player available." Are there any plans to focus more on a team need versus the best player available? -Aaron Horne
A: Absolutely not, best player available. You can never have enough good football players on your team. If you take the best player, you’re not living in year one, it’s living in the future as well. He’ll help you in year one, but he’ll also help you year two and on.
Strike one.
To your “second of all” … there is no way you can prove that he’s not the BPA in the minds of the front office and there’s no way that I can prove he is. So strike two.
The one thing I do know about Spiller from watching him religiously this past season, is that he has talent in multiple areas which equals value. Those areas were some huge areas of concern. So he could very well be BPA on the NIners boards. They have shown some interest, and being that he is slotted to go in the 1st, there’s a very good chance that he is player they’d like to have.
Furthermore, quick, undersized multidimensional RBs don’t have the best track record of transition from college to the pros. Reggie Bush, Dexter Carter, etc. Could Spiller buck that trend?
Chris Johnson, DeAngelo Williams, MJD, Jamaal Charles, etc have already bucked that notion that small players cannot succeed at the next level. So strike three, you’re out! Sorry for the simile, baseball’s back in season.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
Actually, you used a metaphor, not a simile.
Teams always say they draft BPA, but it’s obviously not the case if you look at who they actually draft. But it’s very hard for a GM to step up to the podium and say, “We think that guy we passed on is actually better.”
I understand that putting me in the same category as Al Davis is supposed to make me look bad, but it actually suggests that you don’t understand what Al Davis does. It’s not that he doesn’t draft for need – it’s that he evaluates talent very differently than everyone else, putting a premium on things like speed.
Your second point is essentially a non-sequitir. THe entire conversation is predicated on the assumption that Spiller is probably BPA but somebody else fits our needs better, if that’s not the case, then this whole discussion becomes moot.
Your citation of other players is arguing against a straw man, as if I said that somehow, a small player could never succeed. In fact, I said just the opposite.
Seriously?
You acted like all small players had been irrelevant in the years leading up to current events by using guys like Dexter Carter who was 30 pounds lighter than Spiller as your examples, so if anyone is the strawman here it’s you.
The whole discussion was moot as soon as you decided to respond and defend your stance in terms of BPA vs Need. Obviously there is a marriage between the two in some instances but Crabtree last year was a prime example of this team taking BPA over need (which happened to be, and still is offensive line).
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
Well, let me be clear about something:
I’m not saying that I think Spiller sucks, that he’s destined to be a bust, or that I don’t want him on the 49ers. His kick-return ability alone would help our dramatically.
I am saying, however, that there are lots of good reasons for us not to take him at #13. His size, lack of a clear role on this team, the presence of frank gore, and our glaring hole at RT among them.
Yes, I have some doubts about Spiller. I think there’s a good chance to turn in some great highlight plays, but be a mediocre RB when it comes to consistency, which is the most important factor missing from our run game.
He has great home-run ability. I absolutely agree with everyone else who says that. But you know who else has great home-run ability?
Frank Gore.
People keep talking about Gore like he’s a three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust player, but that’s not the case. He is an incredibly dynamic open-field player, very hard to tackle, who has the potential to turn any play into a big gain once he makes it past the line of scrimmage.
Yes, we need to think about his long-term replacement. But worrying about his long-term replacement seems silly when we have holes we need to fill right now. Besides which, you basically need to think about the long-term replacement for 75% of your starters at any given time.
I think the best analogy for Spiller is probably a poor-man’s Reggie Bush. Bush is a really good player, who would contribute to a lot of teams … but he’s nowhere near the dominant force he was in college. Spiller didn’t have the same advantages in college that Bush did (running behind the best o-line, with the best passing game) and he didn’t have the draft-boosting spotlight of playing for USC, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the ultimately talent level is pretty similar.
When we picked Crabtree over Oher, at the time it was seen as a BPA move, but I think it was clearly also a need move. Obviously you can sometimes get lucky and do both. (Although, in retrospect, it’s not clear that Crabtree was BPA over Oher. But that’s exactly the sort of calculus I was talking about earlier- How on earth do you compare who’s better, a stud young WR or a stud young tackle?) If we had taken Oher last year, then WR would be a position of need now. Since he took Crabs, RT is a position of need.
But RB is not a position of need. In fact, if you were going to list the positions in terms of how little we need to upgrade them, the list would probably start: playmaking ILB, TE, RB. RB is a position of anti-need. Heck, unless you’re ready to write off Coffee (which strikes me as premature, although he was unimpressive as a rookie) even backup RB is not a position of need.
If we were to take Spiller with our first pick, and the tackle we want gets picked up before our second pick, that is a disaster. That is a draft failure of epic proportions. It hurts us in every single game we play next year, it fails to take away Smith’s last important excuse (thus making him harder to evaluate) and drastically limits our ability to be a postseason threat this year.
On the other hand, if we take the tackle we want, Spiller probably goes off the board next, and … we end up taking a DB with our second pick who helps us more next year anyway. Sure, we’ve got to pick up a returner in a later round, but that shouldn’t be too hard to do.
That’s all your opinion… which is fine. But your opinion doesn’t equal fact. I gave you examples of BPA over Need and I am sure if I had the time, could come up with several other examples.
I happen to think that Spiller could be an every down back. Last year at Clemson there were several games where he had 300+ all-purpose yards and only had a few games where he had less than 20+ touches on offense.
When you talk about the Crabtree example, it goes to show you that it happens. You can twist anything in to “seeming” like a “need”. But there is a reason that there is player ranking systems to help in gauging who the best players available are. I think, and it’s my opinion, that if Bruce Campbell was the only 1st Round tackle that was still there, and Jimmy Clausen or Sam Bradford somehow fell in to our laps, that selecting Campbell over either of them would be absurd. That is why BPA always has and always will prevail.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
“I happen to think that Spiller could be an every down back.”
I don’t know if he can be or he can’t be, but I do know this:
He can’t be for the 49ers, not while Gore is healthy.
Furthermore, there’s a world of difference between taking a slightly worse player at a position of need rather than a slightly higher rated player at a position of abundance, and taking a guy who isn’t expected to go for another round because you need someone at that position.
eg, if the top five tackles are gone by the time we draft, sticking to our guns and drafting a tackle because that’s what we need is dumb. That’s why I wrote, in my example above, “the tackle we want” – a guy who can step in, start right away, and perform at a high level for a long time.
You’re setting up (another) straw man by talking about reaching for a tackle. If the only tackle is someone who’s likely to be there at 17, or in the second round, that changes things drastically. As I wrote before, the differences between players taken in the draft at adjacent positions is rarely very large – so yes, absolutely, if you find yourself in a position where you have one player ranked 25 spots higher than another, you start ignoring position. But in practice, the way this draft is likely to pan out, Spiller is, well, mid-round talent. And the best tackle available is likely to be mid-round talent.
So talking hypotheticals about Bradford or Clausen is sort of silly. That has nothing to do with the situation we’re likely to find ourselves in.
The “player ranking system” is that it is highly subjective, vulnerable to groupthink, and tends to ignore the context in which a player performed as he did, which is particularly important for skill position players.
If it’ll make you happy, I’ll happily concede that when faced with a drastic disparity in talent, then BPA makes sense. But back in the real world, where the 49ers have to make an actual draft pick, that point is simply not relevant to this team’s first picks.
Your rants are ridiculous
Just thought I would let you know.
You have used the strawman twice and I’ve seen you use in several other comments. Is that your last reach of desperation to every debate you’re not doing so well in? Certainly seems like that.
This is how your argument comes off (in a nutshell):
strawman…blah, blah, blah, blah
hypotheticals… blah, blah, blah, blah
player rankings – group thinking… blah, blah, blah, blah
Need > BPA, blah, blah, blah, blah
I gave you examples and even quotes that suggest otherwise but you’re entitled to think what you want. Evidently no one is going to change your mind even when the proof and evidence is shoved right in your face.
I once rode an ancient 80 year old donkey down the Grand Canyon that was less stubborn than you. How’s that for strawman?
Here it is from the lips of a Proffesional Football GM one more time for good measure:
Absolutely not, best player available. You can never have enough good football players on your team. If you take the best player, you’re not living in year one, it’s living in the future as well. He’ll help you in year one, but he’ll also help you year two and on.
But it’s evident that you think you know more than him. Maybe you should apply for the job. In the “real world” that IS the way it works. BPA is always in a mahority of cases considered before a need. If we chose a linemen in the 1st Round, it will be because he was the BPA on whatever board they have built, NOT because he’s the 4th best out of 5 of the top tackles.
If want to respond with more lunacy theories feel free. But this conversation is not going to go anywhere because all you are going to try and do is manipulate the topic some more with trying to shoot down every valid point (backed with facts) that I am making.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
You backed your points with facts?
Whatever, dude.
One of us keeps making this personal. Hint, it isn’t me.
Drew, I hate to break it to you
Ronaldinho’s arguments blow yours out of the water. You have failed to refute any of his points sufficiently, and now you’re making a fool of yourself.
If you have this fetish for Spiller that’s fine, but the facts are that he is not likely to be much better than the players available at 13 and his impact will be minimal compared to a DB who can start and especially an offensive tackle. A RT will play every snap (assuming he stays healthy) and be a huge factor in the Niners chances next year. Spiller would probably get about 10 plays per game (excluding returns, although the idea that you need to use a 1st round pick to get a great kick returner is a few steps beyond assinine) and would be a small footnote in the Niners season unless Gore gets hurt for a significant period of time. How much better can he be than Coffee when he’s going to get 5 or 6 carries a game?
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 18, 2010 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hate to bust your bubble, but a bias comment like that coming from you doesn’t mean much to me. Blow’s mine out of the water? That’s it? Thats all you’re bringing? Whatever you say.
I used statements from GM’s… what exactly did he bring to the conversation that blew the facts and material I brang in my comments “out of the water”.
What a lame response.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
Way to dodge the question.
All you do when come come around here once every blue moon is try and bust my chops, and this is exactly why your comment had no merit to anyone but Ronald.
I see alot of people around here making the same points as I have, and I don’t see you going after them. Plenty of people have said BPA over Need in most cases. In fact, NFLN had a piece on it this afternoon. So there’s just one more golden fact. I encourage to go educate yourselves at NFL.com.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
I actually had a pretty long response written out to you
But then my dad’s crappy computer shut off so I lost it all. So I decided I’d write a much more comprehensive fanpost on Spiller in the next week or two when I get the chance (I have finals this week, so I’m not sure I’ll be able to do it in the next few days). So, don’t go assuming so quickly that I am dodging anything, I will expound on my opinion, with lots of good info and facts for you. Of course, I’m sure it won’t change your mind, but it’ll be fun anyways, and perhaps some people who come into this debate with an open mind will see it my way.
I hope you don’t take my criticisms of your opinions personally. I respond to someone because I have respect for their opinions, the lunatic fringe I ignore. You just happen to be very vocal and we happen to have very different beliefs apparently so we debate a lot. However, if you think I wouldn’t defend an intelligent commenter like Ronaldhino when he gets insulted and attacked by someone bringing an extremely flawed argument to the table, you are mistaken sir.
As for the people saying BPA over need, they usually either don’t fully understand what that means or don’t know what they are talking about, and you get plenty of both here. As I said before, I will detail my position on BPA vs. need in the Spiller fanpost, although Ronaldhino already covered it here. As for NFL.com, the next time I learn something from there will be the first, I hope that they aren’t the ones forming your opinions.
And please, do try to keep the insults and rude attitude to a minimum, it is beneath you and this great blog. Just because people don’t agree with your opinion doesn’t mean we are attacking you personally. This is football, it’s not the end of the world if we can’t agree.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 20, 2010 1:15 AM PDT up reply actions
If you took a less abraisive approach, it’s possible you’d get better results. But you believe that your “opinion” superceeds anyone else’s and come off as if all knowing.
Example:
As for the people saying BPA over need, they usually either don’t fully understand what that means or don’t know what they are talking about, and you get plenty of both here.
Arrogant and not backed with one single fact… only a promise to provide a post based on your perception and opinion.
I on the other hand, did provide actual statements from the mouth of a Professional Football General Manager and Former VP of Player Personel stating otherwise. I find it curious how after all of this, there’s still no comments disputing that or addressing it.
Furthermore, there were several coaches interviewed during the process of the Combine (if you bothered to watch any of it) and several other GM’s and Head Coaches stated the same thing. The other website I do analysis for actually get’s info from pro scouts and one of the team reps was at the Combine asking questions in that regard… same verdict I’m afraid. Other people from this site have also stated facts in reagards to BPA over Need. So you’ll have to pardon me if I don’t take anything you say in opposition to that notion seriously.
I have heard it, seen it, and provided you (and Ronaldinho) with facts supporting the concept. I even encouraged you to go do some research on NFL.com because there is plenty of the same thing flying around from all the guru’s there also. But instead you come back with this, “I’ll find a way to twist something in to working in my favor in a FanPost to show you I know what I am talking about even though I don’t” …the consolidated version of your above comment. Apologies for the abraisiveness but I felt it was well deserved.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
re:
If you took a less abraisive approach, it’s possible you’d get better results. But you believe that your "opinion" superceeds anyone else’s and come off as if all knowing.
It’s funny because that’s exactly how I perceive you.
Arrogant and not backed with one single fact… only a promise to provide a post based on your perception and opinion.
Perhaps it is arrogant, but I won’t make any apologies for it. When many of the posters here are unable to form coherent sentences or simply type “KORY SHEETS WAS OUR FUTURE” or “SHAUN HILL WAZ A WINAR”, I have no misgivings saying I know much more about football than they do. Now, there are still many, many very intelligent commenters here whose football intelligence rivals or exceeds mine (just look at the posts on the front page), but I won’t apologize for thinking I know what I’m talking about.
I on the other hand, did provide actual statements from the mouth of a Professional Football General Manager and Former VP of Player Personel stating otherwise. I find it curious how after all of this, there’s still no comments disputing that or addressing it…. Other people from this site have also stated facts in reagards to BPA over Need. So you’ll have to pardon me if I don’t take anything you say in opposition to that notion seriously.
Yes, but you are both misinterpreting their quotes and facts and ignoring all of the facts against your position. I won’t speak more about it although I have much more to say on the issue. If you want to know my opinion it’ll be in the fanpost, if you don’t care then don’t read it. But I’ll address all of the arguments much more in detail. And yes, there are many other people who share your beliefs, I already said as much, I just don’t agree with them.
I have heard it, seen it, and provided you (and Ronaldinho) with facts supporting the concept. I even encouraged you to go do some research on NFL.com because there is plenty of the same thing flying around from all the guru’s there also. But instead you come back with this, "I’ll find a way to twist something in to working in my favor in a FanPost to show you I know what I am talking about even though I don’t"
No, you’ve given vague quotes and you think they somehow proved you’re illogical argument, but they didn’t. Scott said the Niners take the best player available, he didn’t mention Spiller. I personally don’t think Spiller is the best player available. I also know Scott lists 4-5 guys who he thinks will be available at their pick, so unless you have a Crabtree situation where a guy drops unexpectedly there won’t be any 1 best player available. Again, I’ll go more in detail when I get the chance, but I certainly don’t have to twist anything to prove my point. There’s mounds of evidence why the Niners shouldn’t draft Spiller.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 20, 2010 2:48 AM PDT up reply actions
No, you’ve given vague quotes
Vague?
Q: In years past the 49ers have stuck with the common phrase, “We will take the best player available.” Are there any plans to focus more on a team need versus the best player available? -Aaron Horne
A: Absolutely not, best player available. You can never have enough good football players on your team. If you take the best player, you’re not living in year one, it’s living in the future as well. He’ll help you in year one, but he’ll also help you year two and on.
Pretty sure that’s straight to the point. I don’t know much you can read between the lines on that statement. Blunt and to the point.
Now, I do understand that there is a fine line when sometimes BPA happens to meet up with a need and that’s great when that happens, but it’s far from the majority of how the NFL GM’s think and opperate. Value is always number one… what can this player do for the team is how things are approached.
Here is another tidbit from Steve Wyche:
Atlanta Falcons coach Mike Smith, the reigning coach of the year and self-described personnel junkie, unabashedly proclaims that his team’s philosophy when it comes to the draft is to fill positions of need. That way of thinking clearly represents the minority view in the NFL.
So do some teams feel the same way as you? Yeah, but not alot or even close to the majority.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
Again, you are missing the point (you do not understand the line between BPA and need)
Yes, draft one of the best players available, everyone thinks that. No one thinks reaching is good. But you don’t draft someone who won’t really be able to get on the field. I can assure you teams like the Rams or the Titans won’t take a RB in the first round. The Niners should be in the same boat. Draft that best player available amongst players that can actually play (ie: not TE’s or RB’s in the first round unless they are way better than anyone else on your board).
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 20, 2010 3:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I understand it just fine.
You don’t think Spiller is BPA and Need with either of our picks (your opinion) and I think that is BPA and a fairly significant Need (my opinion). That’s basically what we’re debating here… opinions of Spiller. But I garuantee you that if a player like Ndamukong Suh fell to the 4th spot somehow, the Redskins would snatch him up quick without flinching even though it’s not one of their major needs.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
Of course they would
They can actually play him. That’s not what I’m arguing at all, I think it’d be stupid for the Niners to pass up Suh even though DE is not a need at all. But he would be much better than whoever else was left at 13 and the Niners could play him (he’ll probably be a lot better than Soap) so that’d be a great pick. But Spiller just isn’t going to play enough, is not at a really important position, and will not be markedly better than the other players at 13 (in my opinion).
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 20, 2010 3:56 AM PDT up reply actions
??
I would much rather draft a guy that can improve both sides of the ball. Even if it means trading up to get him.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
He can play defense?
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 17, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
No Berry can.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
ERIC BERRY
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
But this would be one of the best threads that i have been involved in since joining
the niner nation who would of thought that spiller would get that much of a rise .
I would rather take jacoby ford
in the second or third round if he fell down that far or j.best if he was 2 fall .When crabtree fell that far he was the over all best WO in the draft and a position that we needed 2 address in a draft that was’nt that deep in WO .But this draft is deep and special teams has never been a position that you address in the first round espicially in the top 15 its a better argument if its a late first round pick they have 4 or 5 solid special team/ running backs in this draft that will be around in the second round.I grant spiller this he’s a real flashy playmaker who can take it 2 the house at any giving time and the key words were ‘’ at any giving time ’’ translation that its a crap shoot that he will always give you that big play and if someone who’s not going 2 consistently going 2 make that big play you don’t give him big play money. We have a big play running back if you forgot his name is ‘’ gore ’’ and all you need 2 add with that is a good full-time special teamer and a better blocking line but you don’t reach 4 a player who’s only in there 20% of the time and as long as gore is healthy and coffee is runnig better in his second year mind you then your not getting that much from spiller so your over paying 4 someone who’s not producing 2 what his pay – scale says he is .
THis years draft in my opinion, shows that the Crabtree pick was not a good one.
There are plenty of WR’s in this draft.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
Disagree
Crabtree came in half way through the season and still made a humongous impact. Just because there’s more WR’s in this draft doesn’t mean Crabtree wasn’t still a great pick. That’s basically saying all WR’s are the same. I highly doubt any of the WR’s in this draft can do what Crabtree does. He’s just a really gifted player.
"Until it's over, I'm not going to tell you it's over." - Nabby
I second that
I don’t really understand how you can say it wasn’t a great pick when there has not been a single criticism of his play thus far.
Didn't say he wasn't a great pick, I said it wasn't good. The pick being used on him, not the player.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
Huh?
If he’s not even a good pick how can he be a great pick?
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 18, 2010 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions
He is a great player, but the pick was misused in my opinion.
If I were GM, Ninersnation would call me the draft hustler.
Step 1 - Offer contract to Bushrod and give up my 49th pick.(RT)
Step 2 - move up to #5 Take Berry for BOTH first rounds and acquire a 2nd and 4th
Step 3 - 2nd round - M gilyard, 3rd - J Jerry, 4th AJ Jefferson, 4th Rafael Priest CB TCU, 5th Deji Karim, 6th - Alex Daniels DE Cincy, 7th Al Woods LSU
HUMONGOUS would put W's on the board or help the offense improve on the amount of first downs they succedd in picking up.
He didn’t do any of that.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
Crabtree is a stud and we stole him period
and if he was in this draft it would be between him and dez bryant (WO oklahoma st.) 4 who you draft number one so whe got a premier WO .So know i feel we got over getting him its who will be that second WO because sometimes i’m not sold on morgan and i would like2 see jason hill more involved in the offnse this dude has crazy speed but he gets no run at all.
Thank You.
Crabs was an excellent pick for us.
I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff
Eat Shitake!
by Hoopers Judge on Mar 17, 2010 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions
can't agree.
I will say he can be an excellent player, but IMO, it wasn’t an excellent pick for us.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
We could be talking about adding two WR's instead of OL, AGAIN, and we also would have our right side of th OL
In it’s second season together, try seeing the play before the throw.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
spiller
is not going to be signed. end of story. too many other needs at positions that play a much greater% of snaps.
I like Spiller...
my only regret would be to see how well he does in another uniform.
however, we’re in a great position in this year’s draft. We could grab an OL and secondary help in the first round, and still have 6 other rounds left to grab an athelete for our return game. Not getting Spiller wouldn’t cause our team to lose one step toward the playoffs, and that’s what matters.
Thankyou, now let's all trade up for Berry.
If I were GM, Ninersnation would call me the draft hustler.
Step 1 - Offer contract to Bushrod and give up my 49th pick.(RT)
Step 2 - move up to #5 Take Berry for BOTH first rounds and acquire a 2nd and 4th
Step 3 - 2nd round - M gilyard, 3rd - J Jerry, 4th AJ Jefferson, 4th Rafael Priest CB TCU, 5th Deji Karim, 6th - Alex Daniels DE Cincy, 7th Al Woods LSU
As much as I like Spiller
I have been forced to change my opinion on him as of late. For the first-round money we will be doling out him, is it honestly worth it for a player who gets, what, 7/8 carries (max) and maybe 5 (max) catches a game? Is it worth getting a RB who has potential to bust in the first round, a player who probably will NEVER evolve into an every-down back? What value does a RB give us?
Here's hoping 2010 is the end of our drought.
And to let it be known
I am completely supportive of the BPA/BOOBIES (best on our board in every situation) approach for drafting. The Donahue drafts were painful with their uncanny concentration on reaching for needs (Donahue also couldn’t understand or know talent if it danced naked in front of him).
Here's hoping 2010 is the end of our drought.
If we don't get C.J. Spiller
I’d bet $100 that we don’t get him because we will address our team needs first, and whoever does get Spiller will see him have an outstanding career EX.(DeSean Jackson, Chris Johnson) and we will all cry out" Why didn’t we take him..
Spiller is not a need, a COP back and kr/pr is a need. A need isn't a player specifically. That would be a WANT.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
What happened here? I went to school and work and came back to 180 comments. I need to read over them and see what the heck happened. LOL
"Iess us expect nothing but greatness from ourselves"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 17, 2010 9:18 PM PDT reply actions
spiller is a want an need..
The guy is a flat out playmaker, wether its as a kr/pr.. his so u say 5,6 carries can a game can b a homerun hitters with jus those attempts, his 4,5 catches, can also be the same.. is anbody doubting minnesota for taking harvin in the first round.. it will b a blessin for him 2 fall 2 us, jus lik crabtree was…
by dc49erfan on Mar 17, 2010 9:24 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Only playmaker in the draft?
Falls to us, if we pass on him at 13 he will be there at 17. Anyone selects him before us, IMO, is reaching.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
"Anyone selects him before us, IMO, is reaching."
Doesn’t that imply that he’s not a slam-dunk pick at our spot?
Who is a "slam-dunk" pick at our spot?
No one. There isn’t one player that is a for sure “slam-dunk”. What a generic and not well thought out comment. There is no way to even know who will be there from our board at our spots.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
I'm gonna argue Berry and Suh until I'm blue in the fingers.
If I were GM, Ninersnation would call me the draft hustler.
Step 1 - Offer contract to Bushrod and give up my 49th pick.(RT)
Step 2 - move up to #5 Take Berry for BOTH first rounds and acquire a 2nd and 4th
Step 3 - 2nd round - M gilyard, 3rd - J Jerry, 4th AJ Jefferson, 4th Rafael Priest CB TCU, 5th Deji Karim, 6th - Alex Daniels DE Cincy, 7th Al Woods LSU
Suh’s not going to be available when we pick. Berry could be, but there is no gaurantee that he is a slam-dunk pick… and for that matter there’s a chance with Suh as well. There is no gaurantee’s in any pick. I mean, the chances of them failing are slim, but there is a small percentage that they could.
"If you're not first, you're last" -Reese Bobby.
If any of them were to fall to us it would be Berry
Suh will be gone top 5
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
At 17? he would be a good pick there, if you feel he can shoulder the load one day.
If I were GM, Ninersnation would call me the draft hustler.
Step 1 - Offer contract to Bushrod and give up my 49th pick.(RT)
Step 2 - move up to #5 Take Berry for BOTH first rounds and acquire a 2nd and 4th
Step 3 - 2nd round - M gilyard, 3rd - J Jerry, 4th AJ Jefferson, 4th Rafael Priest CB TCU, 5th Deji Karim, 6th - Alex Daniels DE Cincy, 7th Al Woods LSU
WoW,,,,,,,
It’s funny how some let other’s own them , from a simple reply on a post .I dredage’d through 180 some post’s ,and it went from spiller, too cursing ,too religion ,too racism, and finally back too spiller , I read once that a fanatic is some one who wont change his opion nor the subject ……..and some seem too border that stance……BPA vs. need ,in that regard i hope spiller’s gone before they pick 13th or 17th , IMO its O line O line in the first pick’s , and trading back would’nt upset me at all …….
Kewl
I dunno...
It seems to me we need to pick Eric Berry and CJ Spiller just so we don’t have to hear certain people with man-crushes complain…
by NinerFanInItaly on Mar 20, 2010 1:01 PM PDT reply actions
A Fanatic
can be religious, political and yes in sports. But the term “fanatic” mostly resides in the confines of religion, as it should. NOT SPORTS
The Epic Draft trade 13th and 4th round pick to the Chargers for 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks.
1. RB- CJ Spiller 1. DE- Brandon Graham 2.OT- Charles Brown 2. FS- Nate Allen
3. WR- Damaryious Thomas 3. CB- Perrish Cox 5. LB- Reggie Carter
6. G- Brandon Carter 6. WR- Taylor Price 7. D'Anthony Smith
(What the heck name Singletary GM!!!)
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 20, 2010 5:00 PM PDT reply actions
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