What's your ideal Niners draft?
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 22, 2010 6:01 PM PDT
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PrintHey folks. We've had lots of posts about the draft, debating players and picks and so forth, but I don't believe we've had a post where we list what our ideal draft is. That means throw out what the front office is looking for, who you think the Niners want, or any pessimistic picks. This post is for the Niners draft that you want, or in other words which picks would leave you happiest on draft day.
Because this is supposed to be an optimistic outlook on the draft you can have some scenarios that maybe aren't the most likely to happen, but try to keep things at least somewhat realistic. There's obviously no fixed rule, but in general if you don't think there's at least a 10-20% chance that a player is available at a certain pick then you should trade up if you want to get the player. A few examples would be say, don't have Suh fall out of the top few picks, don't have Berry fall to #17 (I personally think there's an outside shot he falls to #13 so I'd be okay with that, but use your best judgement), don't have someone like Joe Haden fall to the second round, and don't have someone like Dexter McCluster or or Toby Gerhart fall to the fifth round. No one will ban you (I don't think) if you are too optimistic but it's more fun if we at least stick to scenarios that have a small chance of happening. The only other thing is try to have at least a sentence or two included for each pick so that people know why you want those players, but otherwise you can do whatever you want (Trades are acceptable, even for players currently in the NFL. But again, stick to guys that actually have a chance of being traded and be realistic about it). So without further ado, here's my ideal draft scenario:
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1st round, #13 overall - Brian Bulaga, OT, Iowa: The odds are not great that Bulaga lasts this long but I think it's more likely than some people think. I firmly believe that Detroit will pick one of the top 2 defensive tackles with the #2 overall pick, and there are only 4 other teams that pick in the top 12 that could pick a tackle: Washington, Seattle, Oakland, and Buffalo. Washington could go with Jimmy Clausen, but even if they don't they'd probably take Russell Okung over Bulaga. I see Seattle picking a tackle later (Charles Brown anyone?) and going with Derrick Morgan, Eric Berry or Geral MocCoy at #6, which only leaves the Bills and the Raiders. I recently heard that the Bills really liked Trent Williams, and we all know that Oakland must love Bruce Campbell. So, there's at least a decent chance that Bulaga falls, and I think he could immediately step in and be a top right tackle (or even a left tackle). If the Niners were to add Bulaga and get some better play out of their guards they'd have the makings of an elite line. The only way I'd consider passing on Bulaga is if Eric Berry is available or they get offered a great deal in a trade.
TRADE #17th overall pick and 6th round pick (#182 overall) to the Eagles for the #24 and #71 overall picks: I make this trade because I don't believe there's a player with great value at #17 and I want to pick up some extra picks in a deep draft. The Eagles come ahead about 10-15 points in the trade value chart, but I decided to be conservative because it is always harder to trade down. While picking any one team for a trade partner may not be very realistic in ta mock draft, the team is not really important, any team with a late first or early second round pick will do, just adjust the lower pick accordingly (in other words, if you get the #32 pick instead of the #24 pick then the other pick you receive in return should be in the #50-60 range instead of #71 overall.
1st round, #24 overall - Kyle Wilson, CB, Boise State: From everything I've seen and heard Wilson looks like a great all round corner and he's also a good return man, which is a priority for the Niners. He's an aggressive player who will try to stop the run, which the Niners like in a corner. I also think he's a better value than Joe Haden, considering the 3rd round pick the Niners got earlier in the mock to trade down. Overall, he fits the Niners needs very well, is a player I think Singletary would like, and is good value here.
2nd round, #49 overall - Demaryious Thomas, WR, Georgia Tech: My good buddy Drew K thinks there's a decent chance Thomas lasts until the 3rd round, but I think he'll go quite a bit earlier than that. He's got the highest ceiling of any WR in the draft, and NFL GM's tend to be unable to let guys like that pass them guy. It'd be quite exciting if the Niners picked Thomas, if he could reach his potential the Niners could have the best group of skill position players in the NFL with Thomas, Crabtree, Davis, Gore, Morgan, Coffee, and (as you'll see later) Gerhart.
3rd round, #71 overall - Cam Thomas, NT, North Carolina: Thomas is a beast at 6-4 and 330 lbs., and will be the handpicked successor to Aubrayo Franklin. I imagine Franklin won't be around too much longer because of his age and price tag, but snagging Thomas allows the Niners a year or two to develop a talented player to keep them from having a huge hole at perhaps the most important position on a 3-4 defense. Thomas could go in the second round so this is a bit optimistic but he is a steal here.
3rd round, #79 overall - Toby Gerhart, RB, Stanford: Being a Bay Area local I saw a lot of Gerhart so I may be a bit biased, but I really think he can succeed in the NFL. Now I'm not saying he'll be a star or anything, but I do think he could eventually be a starter. RB is one of the positions the Niners need the least but I believe Gerhart will be one of the best players available if he lasts this long and will give the Niners another good option to fill in for Gore and keep him fresh for later in the season and a be a potential starter down the road.
4th round, #113 overall - John Jerry, OG, Ole Miss: Jerry is a mauling offensive lineman had enough athleticism to play tackle in college, although he'll play guard in the NFL. He could replace David Baas in the near future and his potential along with the rest of the Niner's young offensive line could turn the team's biggest weakness into a huge strength.
5th round, #145 overall - Myron Lewis, CB/S, Vanderbilt: The Niners have used quite a few picks on safeties the last three years, selecting Goldson, Reggie Smith, and Curtis Taylor. But none of them have impressed, so they use another pick on a safety here to see if anything sticks. I debated using this pick on TJ Ward or Myron Rolle, but Rolle's ability to play corner as well as safety signifies to me that he's a better cover guy than Ward or Rolle. The Niners' biggest problem at safety has been having no one who can play deep and Lewis could potentially fill that role.
6th round, #182 overall - TRADED to the Eagles along with the #17 overall pick for the #24 and #71 overall picks
6th round (compensatory), 206 overall - Trindon Holliday, RS, LSU: Kyle Wilson was drafted earlier and he can return kicks but Holliday is more electric and will also ensure there will be no more Delanie Walker as kick returner. If Wilson is in the starting lineup the Niners might like to keep him off of returns anyways. I wanted to go with QB Sean Canfield out of Oregon State, a personal favorite, but I figure he has little to no chance to make the roster with three quarterbacks already present.
7th round, #224 overall - Walter Thurmond, CB, Oregon: This was going to be a fullback before I got the idea to take Thurmond. Thurmond is an underrated corner who doesn't have great physical attributes and was hurt this year but would have a good chance of making the roster as the fifth or sixth corner.
So that's my ideal draft, what's yours?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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like this draft, but...
what would motivate the Eagles to trade up? Is there someone you have in mind?
Jason Hill is turning the corner!
Not really
Someone would have to fall I guess. Like I said it’s not particularly important who the trade partner is, just someone in that range. Trading down farther in the first means it’d be harder to get Wilson but they’d be more likely to get someone like Cam Thomas later.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 23, 2010 2:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I really doubt that Gerhart will last into the middle of the third round...
but he’d definitely be a solid pick, and an absolute steal, if we got him there.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
He could.
I think he will. I don’t see him going higher than the 3rd round.
The one who won’t be there in the 3rd is Cam Thomas.
Kyle Wilson may not be there at 24 (Houston at 20 sounds more and more likely).
Gerhardt in the 3rd, I am on the 2nd round wagon on this one.
I think the Pats understand that win they could run the ball well they were a better Superbowl team.
If Berry falls to 7....#7, #39, #71 = 2245 pts 49ers #13, #17, #141 = 2235 pts
1. E Berry 2a) M Gilyard, 2b) Calloway 3a) Akwasi Owusu-Ansah 3b) J Jerry/M Johnson OG 4. Deji Karim 5. Rafael Priest 6. Alex Daniels 7. Josh Hull
win = When
If Berry falls to 7....#7, #39, #71 = 2245 pts 49ers #13, #17, #141 = 2235 pts
1. E Berry 2a) M Gilyard, 2b) Calloway 3a) Akwasi Owusu-Ansah 3b) J Jerry/M Johnson OG 4. Deji Karim 5. Rafael Priest 6. Alex Daniels 7. Josh Hull
I don’t think the Pats would grab him. I feel like one of those 2nd rounders will be spent on McCluster. He’s more of a playmaker.
I think the pats go back to the poind the rock game plan this season.
If Berry falls to 7....#7, #39, #71 = 2245 pts 49ers #13, #17, #141 = 2235 pts
1. E Berry 2a) M Gilyard, 2b) Calloway 3a) Akwasi Owusu-Ansah 3b) J Jerry/M Johnson OG 4. Deji Karim 5. Rafael Priest 6. Alex Daniels 7. Josh Hull
Really?
I see them drafting more receivers and sticking with the spread, they’ve still got Moss and Brady (and Welker, if he recovers okay).
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 23, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Plus
that guy that stepped up and filled in for Welker that was pretty solid… Edelman or something like that? He is going to be good out of the slot.
The Pats need a back up QB somewhere in the draft though. If Brady went down they’d be up a creek.
Too many freaks, not enough circuses.
Hoyer looked okay last year
If they wait until the late rounds there might not be anyone better than him. A more interesting question, when do they start looking for Brady’s successor (I’m talking drafting a QB high)? The man will be 33 years old before the next season begins.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 23, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions
They could get a guy like Zac Robinson that'd be another good late round option. Possibly Canfield as well
Too many freaks, not enough circuses.
I'm talking late in the season, if they stay with the spread they will continue to be unsuccessful.
Defense and a solid ground game was their backbone when they were winning.
If Berry falls to 7....#7, #39, #71 = 2245 pts 49ers #13, #17, #141 = 2235 pts
1. E Berry 2a) M Gilyard, 2b) Calloway 3a) Akwasi Owusu-Ansah 3b) J Jerry/M Johnson OG 4. Deji Karim 5. Rafael Priest 6. Alex Daniels 7. Josh Hull
I think you were living in Bizzaro world where everything was backwards last year when you watched games
The spread and shotgun is the only time we were successful. When we got in to that other lame formation we usually and most often went 3 and out.
Too many freaks, not enough circuses.
You start with an insult and neglect the fact that I am talking about the Pats.
(Site Decorum)
Not to mention our most succesful formation was the two TE set.
If Berry falls to 7....#7, #39, #71 = 2245 pts 49ers #13, #17, #141 = 2235 pts
1. E Berry 2a) M Gilyard, 2b) Calloway 3a) Akwasi Owusu-Ansah 3b) J Jerry/M Johnson OG 4. Deji Karim 5. Rafael Priest 6. Alex Daniels 7. Josh Hull
Well
They wen’t 18-1 with a spread offense in 2007, and 11-5 with Matt Cassel as their starting QB in 2008, so I’d have to disagree with that. They just have less talent now than they did when they were winning Superbowls (particularly on defense), I think that has a lot more to do with it than their offensive scheme.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 23, 2010 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Being pass happy tires out the defense if you aren't steadily picking up first downs.
This year it backfired, they won superbowls when they were able to run and they had crappy WR’s. Bottom line they have not WON a superbowl with a high powered offense. That passing game lost them games this past offseason, not the D.
-Black Sand Ninja
Their defense gave up 33 points... everyone was responsible for that one.
Too many freaks, not enough circuses.
Pretty sure that was sarcasm.
Right?
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 24, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Turnovers
in that game were only +2 in favor to Baltimore and two of those were FG’s… so what, 6 points? Okay that still leaves 27 that the defense was responsible for. They each lost a fumble and Flacco threw an INT and Brady threw 3. It’s not like it was Kurt Warner giving up 7 turnovers vs our 1 in that MOnday night game… not even close. Again, Patriots D was responsible for that loss mainly.
Too many freaks, not enough circuses.
Time on the field is a factor as well.
How is it the D is mainly responsible, when the offense couldn’t produce squat.
-Black Sand Ninja
The Ravens only had 70 more yards on offense. Thats no excuse.
Too many freaks, not enough circuses.
That means nothing vs what I said. the Pats didn't put points up.
The Pats defense didn’t keep the ball out of the endzone for the pats.
-Black Sand Ninja
Regardless the Pats offense produced nil, and had as much to do with the loss as the defense.
-Black Sand Ninja
This is a fairly ridiculous debate
Regardless of who bears more responsibility for that loss, you don’t base your draft on a single game. The Pats offense was very, very good last year and the defense was mediocre. That point at least is not really arguable.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 25, 2010 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions
It still does not take Gearhardt completely off the table, they do have a hole at RB and can't punch it in on the goailine.
-Black Sand Ninja
Yes of course
He certainly could be an option for them.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 26, 2010 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions
I just can't agree
Their offense was awesome last year, they were first in offensive DVOA for crying out loud. They faced the toughest schedule of pass defenses in the NFL (at least according to DVOA), which hurt them (and Brady’s numbers) a little bit, but it was the defense that was the problem. Wilfork, Warren, and Mayo are the only good players they have on D. Adalius Thomas is a shell of his former self and they’ve lost Asante Samuel, Richard Seymour, Bruschi, Rodney Harrison, and Ty Law from the great defenses.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 23, 2010 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Offense blew a gasket when it mattered.
That number 1 O didn’t show up in the playoffs and pretty much stunk after the Saints game, it was inconsistent. DVOA is a stat man’s crutch not mine. That O was inconsistent.
-Black Sand Ninja
Pats offensive line decided to go on vacation early
in the first round playoff game. Brady was pressured all day long and stunk bad. With the Pats as Brady goes, so goes the team. (Which is why I argue against Brady being better than Manning).
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
Yep
The offense was bad in the playoffs for sure, but you don’t change your whole offensive philosophy because of one game, especially when that philosophy has been so successful.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 23, 2010 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't mean change the whole philosphy but 40 - 50 passing attempts is a poor offensive game plan.
-Black Sand Ninja
Not necessarily
Certainly not in the Pats case, their offense was incredibly productive. Also, I believe if you look at the percentages, they did not pass the ball at quite the extreme rate you are making it out to be. I think quite a few teams threw the ball t a higher rate than the Pats, but I am just going off of memory.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 25, 2010 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes
But their offense was actually quite a bit worse the three years they did win the Superbowl, their defense was just much better.
It’s pretty silly to change your amazingly effective offense just because your defense is dropping off. It’d be like if the Niners switched to a 4-3 right now, just because Alex Smith isn’t a very good quarterback. The two don’t have much to do with each other.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 26, 2010 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions
I am not suggesting they change their offense.
I think they need to not pass as much. A little balance goes a long way. Pass, pass, pass with a weak defense makes no sense to me. You make 10 plays score your defense gets the ball ran down their throat and then you pass 3 incoompletes and they are back on the field right away, that can’t help a poor defense.
-Black Sand Ninja
The Patriots had one of the highest scoring offenses in the league in 2010.
You’re talking about a rather large change in philosophy for absolutely no reason at all.
Pass, pass, pass with a weak defense makes no sense to me.
Well then, with respect, you aren’t very bright. When a team has a crappy defense, it is the responsibility of the offense to put as many points on the board as often and as quickly as possible. If you’re going to give up 28 points a game, then you’d damn well be able to score 35 a game – and you’re not very likely to do that with a 50/50 run/pass ratio.
Just ask guys like Dan Fouts and Dan Marino how they feel about running the ball, with consideration to the defenses their teams had while they weren’t on the field.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
Obviously you aren't very bright, they aren't pass happy because of the defense.
When they shattered the scoring record they had a good defense and were pass happy. They pass too much. The ratio doesn’t have to be 50/50 it rarely is amongst any team. You are gonna pass more than you run, but 50 att. vs 15 rsh attepts is stupid for any team.
-Black Sand Ninja
Wasn’t the Patriots problem obvious against the Giants in the SB? Once the pass rush was effective the Patriots offense had no counter.
Maybe it’s a figment of my imagination but the Cowboys won three SB’s in the 90’s because they could switch to run when the pass was taken away than go to the pass when the defense committed to stopping the run. Steve Young spent the last half of the decade stuck with Terry Kirby and 8 pass defenders dropping back into coverage.
I really don't understand where you're going with this.
When they shattered the scoring record they … were pass happy. They pass too much
“When they were awesome and completely unstoppable, they were passing the ball a lot. They shouldn’t pass so much.” You actually said those things. In that order. They weren’t throwing the ball as a direct counter to their declining defense, no – but wasn’t that your argument to begin with?
I’m starting to remember why I stopped commenting in response to some of the people on this site.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
How do you block quote what I said and edit the key component
That would mean there is no reason for me to read that.
-Black Sand Ninja
It was a two part "explanation"
and truncating one of the two parts pointed out and illustrated the biggest direct contradiction in your flawed argument.
The edited out part – your mention of the defense being unrelated – was a contradiction in its own right, but not the one I was focusing on.
Pass, pass, pass with a weak defense makes no sense to me
Would you like for me to point out this mistake, as well? The Patriots of recent years have had a dominant passing game and a relatively weak running game. More passing = more points, while less passing/more running = fewer points. Your assessment that running more would be more supportive of a weaker defense than what they had in their championship years is absolutely false.
What you’re basically saying is that fewer offensive points is better for the Patriots’ defense than more points. Summary: not very smart.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
Well, when the Patriots were winnin Superbowls they didn't need to pass that much.
When you pass pass pass with a weak defense you have minimal margin of error, so if you do have two quick 3 and outs you are putting a weak defense on the field to often to keep teams close, then you put yourself in a position to be one dimensional, which is predictable and easier to stop. What I said above was the Pats had a good defense when they lost to the Giants and they should have ran the ball more. And since the whole discussion was based off of the Pats taking gerhardt and it is an option and would be good for them. They lack in goaline rushing TD’s like their old teams have. they need a combination of both and a better defense, but that passing game hurt the defense on several occasions. Calling that false is stupid.
-Black Sand Ninja
Here's my biggest problem with what you're saying:
so if you do have two quick 3 and outs you are putting a weak defense on the field to often to keep teams close
The 2008 and 2010 Patriots were far more likely to go 3-and-out by running the ball than they were with throwing it. So many of their passes (dumps, screens, short routes) work as an extension of the run game that it doesn’t limit their ball control, success rate or time of possession anywhere near as much as you’re trying to make it seem. It’s not like the 2008 Patriots ever really went 3-and-out, so for you to say that the passing game is causing far too many of these scenarios just confuses the hell out of me.
The reason that they haven’t run the ball much lately is because they have Tom Brady at QB and Wes Welker and Randy Moss at WR…to go along with Laurence fricking Maroney at RB. You’d really suggest banging your head against the wall with a crappy ground game just for the sake of “balance”?
They lack in goaline rushing TD’s like their old teams have.
If you want them to run the ball in the red zone better or more frequently, then that’s not nearly as blasphemous as the other things you’re saying (though one can argue that they aren’t exactly having too many red zone problems when they’re still near top 5 in the league in points scored). But that’s not something that’s going to bring their run:pass ratio all that much closer to 50/50.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
2008 Pats are not in question.
BECAUSE THEY DIDN’t have a weak defense. When the weak defense comment was made it was pertaining to the most recent pats team.
-Black Sand Ninja
that passing game hurt the defense on several occasions.
Missed this on my first read.
LOL’d on my second.
Scoring lots of points hurt the defense, you say? Alright…sure.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
Throwing interceptions
If the offense did nothing but score we wouldn’t be having the conversation and they wouldn’t have gone out in round 1 of the playoffs. that offensive scheme had plenty three and outs passing the ball.
-Black Sand Ninja
Re: "interceptions"
The 2009 Patriots were tied with 5 other teams with the 7th fewest interceptions in the league.
that offensive scheme had plenty three and outs passing the ball
Plenty fewer than most other NFL teams, however – the Patriots were 8th in the NFL last year in 3rd down conversion%.
Notably, there were some other pass-heavy teams above them (NO, GB, SD, IND).
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
You act as if they score on every posession, interceptions and 3 and outs hurts any defense.
They were atop the league in scoring but where were they in goaline performance? Let’s stop substituting what I am saying for your useless banter.
-Black Sand Ninja
where were they in goaline performance?
Goal line performance isn’t always as huge of a deal when you have a team that can consistently get there, however. Surprising teams like WAS, TB (yeah really), MIA, TEN, and our own 49ers ranked ahead of them in goal line scoring % – and that didn’t exactly cause a direct conversion into wins.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
Yes, passing more sorta works and it sorta doesn’t. You can blow teams off the field with the offense but it also leaves a weak defense on the field more to be exposed.
The whole idea...
is that a “weak defense” is going to get exposed anyway. Again, I don’t really think that the Patriots have a weak defense, so this is all moot.
However, it’s simple math: the Patriots, throwing the ball the vast majority of the time, have a very high scoring percentage. The Patriots theoretical crappy defense has a moderately high-to-high chance of giving up points.
Since the only way to win football games is by scoring more points than the opponent, then it makes sense for the Patriots to make an attempt to maximize the number of possessions by scoring as early and often – through the aerial attack – as possible. That way, even a crappy defense won’t give up enough points to lose the game.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
Makes sense until they have significant lead and cannot run the clock down because they did not develop their run game.
I guess I agree that they maximized their talent but without a run game that talent isn’t good enough.
Wrong.
2009 Patriots ranked 1st overall in Time of Possession. Running out the clock was not an issue for them.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
You proved me wrong on that one, I still don't see why we had to get this far into it, by suggesting a power back to the Pats.
Alex Smith is a product of poor coaching and poor management -Black Sand Ninja
Well there was more to it than the Oline disappearing… the Ravens were sending some great blitzes, so they have to be credited some in that equation. The Pats defense gave up 33 points in that game though and that is what swung momentum and ultimately lost them the game.
With the overall point of all of this, I agree that the offense was pretty solid for the Pats all year long though.
Too many freaks, not enough circuses.
Yeah the Pats used the offense
to compensate for the defense. When they couldn’t do that they looked really bad
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
remember Joe Flacco threw for 34 yards that game. when you have a weakness as glaring as their rush defense, it doesn’t matter how good the rest of your team is.
by hellaninersfan on Mar 23, 2010 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Pass happy
how spread were they when they had Corey Dillon playing for them?
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Mar 28, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
They weren't as pass happy then.
Alex Smith is a product of poor coaching and poor management -Black Sand Ninja
They’ve been to the Superbowl 4 times in the past decade using that philosophy and the playoffs every year in that same time frame.
One Christmas, I got a battery with a note saying, "toy not included".
I am referring to passing attempts vs rushing attempts, not really talking about the formation.
I thought the year after the Streelers won the first Superbowl with Roethlisberger and more teams were moving to the 3-4 they used more spread formations. After they added Moss they increased their passing attempts dramatically and kind of ignored their need for a RB. however they did add a veteran last year that went down on injury, this is why i suggested the Pats to be a team interested in Gerhart.
Alex Smith is a product of poor coaching and poor management -Black Sand Ninja
They haven't won SBs with the spread.
I’d like to see them go back to what was good for them in the past.
But they need to re-build that defense.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 24, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
What are you talking about?
They were using it when they beat Philly in the SB in ’07.
The New England Patriots playing a spread offense against the Philadelphia Eagles in 2007
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread_offense
Look at the picture to the right. Looks like spread to me.
Too many freaks, not enough circuses.
Alot of other teams havent even been to the playoffs using other types of offense.
Too many freaks, not enough circuses.
I'm saying they pass too much now.
Last SB win they passed 33 times and ran 26, their SB loss they threw it 48 times and ran 15. They pass too much now and if they continue they can foreget about SB’s despite what their defense does. They had a decent defense when they lost to the Giants, but the Offense couldn’t produce enough points.
-Black Sand Ninja
Let's not forget
they drafted Tate and he’s been injured. I think they have some high or reasonably high hopes for him and for Edelman. i do think they get younger at RB and pretty much tell Maroney that he needs to put up or shut up and get out. (Let’s not forget they also have Green-Ellis who they like) their big problem is at Te and they will probably get one with their second rounder. Not sure they go first for RB but most probably go defense (CB or a guy to fill in for the loss of Seymour). I think they are gonna get some later round (3,4,5 maybe even 6) and next year picks with their other #2’s.That’s just their MO.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Mar 28, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Really?
I’ve seen him go in the 4th in some mocks. I thought Cam Thomas was more of a stretch there.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 23, 2010 2:37 AM PDT up reply actions
He won't make it out of the 2nd
Denver, San Diego, Miami, Kansas City, Arizona, and Buffalo all could use a NT. And those are just the teams looking for a NT. There won’t be enough to go around.
Cody and Thomas both go in round 2 because of this and if he’s there in round 3 then Buffalo grabs him easily. There’s no way he’ll be there for the Niners 3rd round pick.
I agree with Brendan on this one
I dont think Cam will be a second rounder. Terrence Cody and Williams will be the only 1st and 2nd rounders. You never know, but the chances of Thomas being selected in the 2nd are slim.
Too many freaks, not enough circuses.
My point's been that he won't be there in round 3 for the Niners
Considering the drop-off in NTs from Thomas to whomever’s 4th (Linval Joseph? Torrell Troup?) I just don’t think he makes it to the Niners in round 3 when you’ve got 6 NT hungry teams.
I can't see cody falling out of the first, he is the best NT, IMO.
If Berry falls to 7....#7, #39, #71 = 2245 pts 49ers #13, #17, #141 = 2235 pts
1. E Berry 2a) M Gilyard, 2b) Calloway 3a) Akwasi Owusu-Ansah 3b) J Jerry/M Johnson OG 4. Deji Karim 5. Rafael Priest 6. Alex Daniels 7. Josh Hull
I like it okay
The one major thing I felt was missing was a safety to potentially challenge Lewis for the starting position. I like Wilson and I actuall meant to include him in one of my scenarios, but it just didn’t work out that way I guess.
I happen to agree with shlecko, I believe Gerhart is a pretty solid selection in the 2nd Round. I had him projected there in the 100 in 100 article I did on him.
Outside of that, I like the rest of the picks.
Too many freaks, not enough circuses.
Yep
There is no good safety, although I guess you can’t cover everything in one draft. I couldn’t figure out how to fit one in there higher.
Gerhart would be a solid pick in the second no doubt, but since I was going with an ideal scenario and there’s so much running back depth I’d take one of the guys who fell to the 3rd or 4th round.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 23, 2010 2:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Safety is a bigger need than CB, IMO.
The pick used on a CB could have been used on one.
If Berry falls to 7....#7, #39, #71 = 2245 pts 49ers #13, #17, #141 = 2235 pts
1. E Berry 2a) M Gilyard, 2b) Calloway 3a) Akwasi Owusu-Ansah 3b) J Jerry/M Johnson OG 4. Deji Karim 5. Rafael Priest 6. Alex Daniels 7. Josh Hull
True
But I don’t see Berry or Thomas being there (I guess Thomas could be), and I didn’t want to go with Mays.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 23, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Mays would be a better pick there because of how great the need is.
He has the highest ceiling of all safety prospects, Even higher than Berry due to athleticism, it’s a matter of can his coverage skills be that good. ( I doubt that)
If Berry falls to 7....#7, #39, #71 = 2245 pts 49ers #13, #17, #141 = 2235 pts
1. E Berry 2a) M Gilyard, 2b) Calloway 3a) Akwasi Owusu-Ansah 3b) J Jerry/M Johnson OG 4. Deji Karim 5. Rafael Priest 6. Alex Daniels 7. Josh Hull
Agreed on the "doubt that" on Mays
I mean come on this guy had Carrol teaching him DB and couldn’t learn to cover?
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Mar 28, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Bulaga and Iupati in the first, a safety/cb and rb in the 2nd and 3rd, and depth on the lines or at DB late.
Thing A
My IDEAL draft?
Hmm.
1a. Russell Okung
1b. Eric Berry
2. Ndamukong Suh
3. CJ Spiller
3. Dez Bryant
4. Rolando McClain
5. Mike Lupati
6. Brandon Spikes
7. Taylor Mays
A couple guys would have to fall, obviously.
I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an asshole quotes himself. -mikev
Well
at least we know you’re an optimist at heart, lol
"God tells me he can get me out of this mess, but he's pretty sure you're fucked."-Braveheart
That would be a tough one to pull off.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 23, 2010 2:40 AM PDT up reply actions
You think we'd have to trade up to get McClain in the 4th?
I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an asshole quotes himself. -mikev
We'd probably have to get him in the 3rd.
Although some would call that reaching…
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 23, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think you're getting a little carried away with that.
I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an asshole quotes himself. -mikev
You forgot the bit where Payton Manning re-enters the draft just before the 49ers supplementary pick
otherwise, right on
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco
Hmm
I don’t have an ideal draft, as I’m not too familiar with the players. I do hope we draft C.J. Spiller, Taylor Mays and possibly a reliable wideout like Golden Tate, who looks reminiscent of Michael Crabtree. We could probably have a Jerry Rice/John Taylor style combo with Crabtree and Tate in the sense that they are two wide receivers who are very similar.
The offensive line is something I know we need to improve, but I don’t know exactly who to draft for it. Maybe free agency will be the answer for that.
I hate it when
people liken Jerry Rice to ANYBODY
We could probably have a Jerry Rice/John Taylor style combo with Crabtree and Tate …
You’re not the only one, but please do realize that you are comparing the GOAT with Crabtree (or Tate, whomever).
However, I am with you still on the Taylor Mays wagon. I don’t see why everyone is so down on the guy, he may not be worthy of a high-end 1st rd pick, but he’s still a legit safety and we’d be lucky to get him in the 2nd round (as I’ve seen projections having him slide that far).
*and why can’t I get this out of bold?
Chris Cohan- YOU'RE FIRED!
I think most people would be pretty happy with Mays in the 2nd
But I don’t think most people think he would fall that far either.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 23, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Not exactly what I had in mind.
I didn’t intend to liken anybody to Jerry Rice or John Taylor. Both are players that might be considered legendary for all they accomplished. What I did say is that Michael Crabtree and a similar receiver might be similar to those two in the sense that they are “body doubles”, or receivers with similar attributes. I think this goes well as it makes things difficult for opposing teams’ defenses, forcing them to try to account for not one big-play receiver, but practically two of the same big-play receiver. I think this was probably why the 49ers had more success with the West Coast Offense during the 1980s as opposed to the 1990s, when they won only a single super bowl.
I apologize if there was any misunderstanding, though.
Right now my ideal draft is
13. T- Trent Williams-Solidifies right tackle
17. G- Mike Iuputi-Starts at left guard immediately offensive line is solidifed for years to come.
2nd Round-FS- Nate Allen ball hawking free safety.
I don’t know enought about anything beyond round 2 yet. I have seen a number of trade down options, if we do I am intrigued by C/G-Markice Pouncey he could start at LG over Bass and then move to center in 3-4 years when Heitman finally wears down. I don’t think he lasts until the 2nd round. Offensive line is obviously my main concern.
not sure re: Iupati starting immediately
don’t get me wrong—he’s got great upside and ferocity. But he hasn’t gotten the kind of coaching at Idaho that he’s going to need to be an impact player immediately. Not a bad pick, but I’m not sure that he projects quite in the way you’re saying here.
Jason Hill is turning the corner!
Iupati
should be an immediate starter over Baas. From day 1 he’d likely be our best guard.
by 9thevolution on Mar 24, 2010 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
his technique needs a little work. he’ll be a starter by the end of the year, but not immediately.
by hellaninersfan on Mar 24, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Depends on how fast he picks up the technique
mostly it has to do with his hands as he tends to grab on too much instead of punching. Other than that he’s got pretty good technique I thought.
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
yeah, sure wish we had a great O-Line Coach
oh wait, Solari and Ray Brown are O-Line coaches for the 49ers? What’s that you say? They’re from the McKittrick mold? Hmmm, wasn’t he sorta legendary?
"If I were to walk down a dark alley in a bad part of town, I'd want Ray Brown with me. And if I were to have a nice dinner at a fine restaurant, I'd want Ray Brown with me." The Late Great McKittrick
(I was agreeing with you)
"If I were to walk down a dark alley in a bad part of town, I'd want Ray Brown with me. And if I were to have a nice dinner at a fine restaurant, I'd want Ray Brown with me." The Late Great McKittrick
He knows what he's talking about!
He started at WR for the 1992 CPHS Falcons. I think RT and G are the two biggest needs as well, the tackles all scare me a little though, there’s a lot of mixed reviews. Pouncey looks like a guy who’s ready to start, I think his ceiling may be low for a center in the 1st round though. Pouncey is often compared to Jeff Saturday and I think Saturday is pretty over-rated. Everyone agrees the guys is great at calling blocks and blitz pickups, but he gets overpowered way too often for me to think he’s a a future hall of famer.
I know what I'm talking about, I started at right guard for the 1992 College Park Falcons.
by Johnnysixnut on Mar 25, 2010 7:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I think
it would be easier for the 49ers to trade the 13th selection other than the 17th selection. Obviously there has the potential to be some pretty solid players that slide to 13. With Oakland, Jacksonville and Buffalo all picking in the top 10, there could be 3 excellent players that somehow make it out of the top 10.
I’m with you though, I’d like to see a trade net an extra third rounder (plus a later first) for one of the selections. I think sniping John Jerry later is a must if the team doesn’t go Iupati. I would also like to see the 49ers draft Major Wright later if no safety is of value early (first 2 rounds).
by Andrew Davidson on Mar 23, 2010 8:06 AM PDT reply actions
Agreed with all of that
I was just thinking perhaps the Niners could get a steal in a trade down if Clausen falls to #13, some team might be willing to give up quite a bit more than an extra 3rd, which would be awesome.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 23, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
If he gets past Buffalo at 9
he’d have pinball like drop. Really maybe PIT would take him maybe HOU. then ARI really. But ti’s doubtful he gets past the Bills.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Mar 28, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
no 49
Thomas is a project. Second rounders should be early contributers. Take DAmian Williams instead and you have a guy who is multi talented. He is used to being the no 1 so he wont feel the pressure. The bigger the game the bigger he shows up. He has elite return skills as well as elite route running skills. He is very hardnosed and competitive. He came from USC where he was asked to be the guy and delivered consistently when everyone knew the ball was coming his way. Check out the Emerald Bowl.
THIS
I don’t know why more people aren’t talking about him, but after his bad 40 he’ll probably fall to us in the 2nd. He is basically the exact opposite of Thomas. His routes are beautiful, they’re like art. And he has great hands, and can make circus catches. He runs all of the NFL routes in a Pro-style offense, and has incredible awareness in terms of where his quarterback is and how to find holes in Zones.
He’s a great compliment to crabtree, and despite his slow 40 time, may be able to stretch the field.
by hellaninersfan on Mar 23, 2010 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions
nocal81 ideal draft
I deleted nocal81’s ideal draft because there was some kind of html error that was causing the rest of the comments to be all bold. Here is what he said:
My Sig Says It All
but i have changed it up a little bit.
Trade 13th pick and 6th round pick to the Chargers for 28th pick, 2nd and 3rd round picks
Acquire T- Jared Gaither from the Ravens for 2nd round pick
1. G- Mike Iupati Idaho
1. CB- Kyle Wilson Boise State
2. FS- Nate Allen South Florida
3. WR- Damaryious Thomas Georgia Tech
3. DE- Greg Hardy Mississippi
4. RB- Anthony Dixon Mississippi State
5. LB- Reggie Carter UCLA
6. CB- Walter Thurmond Oregon
7. WR- Trindon Holliday Louisiana State
IF ...
Wilson falls to #28 (looking less likely as time passes),
Thomas falls to #79 (I assume this rather than Charger’s 3rd round),
THEN …
I LOVE IT !!!!!
Would you play Gaither at LT or RT?
by 49erFanSince1950 on Mar 23, 2010 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Just another thought ...
Do you think that there’s any chance Koa Misi would fall to #9x? This is, pick him rather than Hardy. Do you pick Hardy because you like him better (than Misi) or because you don’t think that Misi will be available at #9x?
by 49erFanSince1950 on Mar 23, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
I would skip Hardy all together, I don't think he would help our biggest PR need.
If Berry falls to 7....#7, #39, #71 = 2245 pts 49ers #13, #17, #141 = 2235 pts
1. E Berry 2a) M Gilyard, 2b) Calloway 3a) Akwasi Owusu-Ansah 3b) J Jerry/M Johnson OG 4. Deji Karim 5. Rafael Priest 6. Alex Daniels 7. Josh Hull
If the Niners got Thomas at 79 I would cry
As long as they didn’t mess up the picks before that.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 23, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
My ideal and possible draft
1. Bulaga OT – Great size and technique will be RT of the future
1b. McCourty CB- size and speed can become elite corner
2. Kindle OLB- pass rush beast
3. Petrius OG- great depth and strength will help running game
4. Scott RB- bigger back will prevent Gore to wear down
5. Butler ILB- adds depth
6. Alualu DE- Cal star experience with 3-4
6b. Holliday- KR/PR specialist
7. Tonga FB- will play his heart out to make the team
Joe and Steve were under the same system for years... don't expect Smith to be super so soon.
Alualu and Kindle will go much higher I think
Kindle should go in the top 20 if you ask me, and while I don’t know a ton about Alualu Mayock has him in his top 5, so i can’t imagine he lasts past the first couple rounds.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 23, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Ideal + possible draft if there is a trade
1st round
13. McCourty CB
28. Iupati OG
2nd round
49 Saffold RT
60 Allen S
3rd round
79 Misi OLB
4th round
113 Holliday
Joe and Steve were under the same system for years... don't expect Smith to be super so soon.
Certainly nice...
but I don’t think Wilson lasts til #24. I say even if it’s a reach, you stay at #17 and grab him there. I think the Steelers (#18), Texans (#20), Patriots (#22) and Packers (#23) are all potential landing spots for him. The Falcons (#19) could also grab him even though they signed Robinson in FA.
I know you shouldn’t reach for a player just because you don’t want others to grab him, but with Wilson being a potential starter and having PR skills as well, it might be wise to just grab him depending on how much you value him.
I don't think I would take him if it meant having to stay at 17
There are other guys I would rather have. Even Haden could be available at 17.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 23, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Haden
He doesn’t do return duties if I remember correctly, and he needs constant help over the top from a safety. Our safeties aren’t that good right now, so I’d rather get the guy who can challenge for playing time and possibly return kicks and punts.
Just my opinion.
by 9thevolution on Mar 24, 2010 6:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Realistic but Ideal?
it’s a stretch but hey why not
1a. Joe Haden- The niners, in desperate need of a good young CB grabs him when he drops to the 13th. Bringing in a solid starter across from Shantae.
1b. Bryant Bulaga- A couple teams decide to take a risk on players like Williams and decide to grab specialty players like Spiller, giving us a strong starter at RT.
2. Taylor Mays- The niners arent especially looking for another secondary player, but now that Singletary has more power in the organization, along with Michael Lewis’ concussion problems if he falls here magically he’s ours. Also since we already got Haden we can let Mays take a year behind Clements and Lewis to learn to be a better coverage DB. Other teams let him drop here because they are just to scared to take the risk on someone so raw at coverage.
3.Jhavid Best- the injury prone RB drops here just because teams are to scared he cant handle a full workload, or they just don’t need him. Gives us the change of pace player on PR and KR, and eventually can take over for gore with coffee in the future.
After that I don’t know to much about the players.
i agree
i like the Joe Haden/Talyor Mays First round draft. Get an OT in the second. When Smith was in the gun we were more succesful anyways as far as protection went. that bulks up our defense with 2 more playmakers
Actually...
the picks were for Haden in the first and Mays in the second. Honestly though, if Bulaga is on the board at #13 and the Niners pass on him, he won’t be available at #17. But, Haden could be available at #17 if we pass on him at #13. Still would rather get Wilson or McCourty though if we’re going CB in the first.
by 9thevolution on Mar 23, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Honestly though, if Bulaga is on the board at #13 and the Niners pass on him, he won’t be available at #17.
I’m not sure about that. Seattle is the only team between 13 and 17 that would pick an O-lineman that high, but if they’ve already picked someone at 6 (or just really want someone like Spiller) he could drop to 17. Of course teams could still trade up past the Niners to get him.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 23, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Their O-line coach is famous for not needing 1st day prospects. They’ll probably wait.
by hellaninersfan on Mar 23, 2010 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions
This is true...
but you never know if one of those teams (Giants/Titans) has him rated high enough to just grab him and be happy. The Giants OL was a little banged up last year.
by 9thevolution on Mar 24, 2010 6:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Hey its ideal,
I dont think any of us think Mays will fall to the second or Best to the third. But I think it could happen if the niners are extremely lucky. Also I wouldn’t mind Williams at the 17th pick, just someone who will be a good RT for the next decade.
Yeah
That would be a really awesome draft too. Really awesome.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 23, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Ideal mock..
1a- CJ Spiller
1b- Anthony Davis
2- Morgan Burnett
3- D. Thomas
4- Jacoby Ford
5- Mike Pertus
6- T. Holliday
7- Eric Berry
Berry gets paralyzed from the waist down
In a freak car accident huh? :-)
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 23, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Jason Pierre-Paul has "Raider" written all over him.
If Al doesn’t draft him i’d be shocked.
I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff
Also surviving member of the underwhelming Jed York Conference Thread 3/22/2010
Eat Shitake!
by Hoopers Judge on Mar 23, 2010 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions
They could still pick Campbell or Mays I think.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 23, 2010 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions
(so do I)
Gallery may have been drafted too high but he’s a solid player, if not great. Actually, most Iowa players that get drafted go on to have good, albeit quiet, careers, well, except Merton, Bob Sanders, Dallas clark, Aaron Kampman, Chad Greenway, Jared DeVries, Tim Dwight, The Hilgenberg brothers, Nate Kaeding, Chuck Long, Reggie Roby, Casey Weigmann…but that list could be for any school…just saying good players DO come out of Iowa quite often.
"If I were to walk down a dark alley in a bad part of town, I'd want Ray Brown with me. And if I were to have a nice dinner at a fine restaurant, I'd want Ray Brown with me." The Late Great McKittrick
"if not great"
meaning, he’s not great.
"If I were to walk down a dark alley in a bad part of town, I'd want Ray Brown with me. And if I were to have a nice dinner at a fine restaurant, I'd want Ray Brown with me." The Late Great McKittrick
Ideal draft w/o Berry......(site decorum) that
- Eric Berry- Mr Everything DB
2a Roger Saffold – Good fit at RT
2b Mardy Gilyard – Good slot WR option and kr/pr
3 Akwasi Owusu-Ansah- appears to be solid CB in all facets, plus kr/pr
4th Rafael Priest CB Underrated, IMO, missed time and was not thrown at.
Deji Karim – Sleeper COP back will make noise at NFL level.
5th Alex Daniels- Nickel DE pass rush issue addressed
6th Joe Pawalek ILB – has shown a glimpse of good pass defense skills and can tackle.
6th Reggie Stephens OG big ugly OG
7th Kade Weston NT – good size and had impressive numbers for a NT.
UDFA Vann-kr/pr
Well, we took care of the hole at safety, COP back, 3 STeamers, ILB with tackling ability, size and coverage ability, back up NT to groom for 4 seasons and a pass rusher out of 3rd and long. Not to mention two more weapons for Smith to throw to. This is before UDFA.
-Black Sand Ninja
Good picks rlott
I especially like Saffold at 2a.. that along with Berry would take care of a couple big needs.
Also, I read where Sing was looking at Gilyard, because of his KR/PR skills and using him at WR
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Not sure I agree with 5-7 and think we could get Priest at a much better price point
but looks pretty good. I’d say take Petrus or Newhouse at like 4-6 and get Pender as CB at his spot and grab Sharpton or Michah Johson at ILB. Weston is interesting ..probably end up as a #2 this year and next year as well. I imagine us going for Powe or the guy from Hampton at NT next year to handle that positon. Daniels at Nick DE is interesting but i think a bit high of a pick there.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Mar 28, 2010 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions
1a. traded back to someone for another 2nd
1b. CJ Spiller RB/KR, Clemson (we all know the argument for spiller by now right? and with “size matters” McC out of power this pick is more likely)
1c. Maurkice Pouncey G/C, Florida (would provide more depth at center if we get rid of wallace, and could start at gaurd immediately)
2a. Damian Williams WR/PR, USC (helps the return game, and would probably be a better #2 than Morgan. great compliment to crabtree and an incredible route runner)
2b. one of those safeties. Jones, Burnett whatever. I have trouble watching film on them since the camera is always on the QB so I never really bothered to learn how to tell them apart. The ballhawkingest one.
3. Kyle Calloway RT, Iowa (played pretty well against Corey Wooton [who I also like a lot]. Go look up the highlights/lowlights on wooton and you’ll see what I mean)
4. Donovan Warren CB, Michigan (was a first round prospect a while ago, but didn’t have a great senior year and had a terrible combine. Some nice depth.)
5. Reggie Carter ILB, UCLA (a vocal leader who doesn’t possess great speed. Who does this sound like the perfect compliment to? BTW this is where you get Ted linebackers, not the 13th pick.)
6a. Arthur Jones DE, Syracuse (will challenge Sopoaga)
6b. Manase Tonga FB, BYU (I like the guy)
7. Some special teamer.
thats KR/PR, gaurd, slot receiver, right tackle, Safety, CB depth, ILB depth and DE depth. I didn’t get a pass rusher, but apart from that I’d be pretty happy with this.
by hellaninersfan on Mar 23, 2010 11:56 PM PDT reply actions
I could live with that draft though I'd rather get Iupati in the first than Pouncey
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
Pouncey...
could play guard until Heitmann hangs it up or we decide to move on from him. I actually like the Pouncey pick more than Iupati because it would net us an extra pick or maybe even two.
With Pouncey, we’d also have the flexibility to trade Heitmann if there’s value. OL is still kinda a work in progress and with likely two new faces on it next year, I wouldn’t mind just making it three and then let continuity set in from there.
by 9thevolution on Mar 24, 2010 7:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Good points
I hadn’t thought of those before, but you’re right, Pouncey might be a better value for the Niners than Iupati.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 25, 2010 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions
can he play right away though?
it’s now AND later OR now OR later, meaning I think Iupati steps right in and plays, and plays for a long time at a high level. Pouncey might be a better long term value especially with his versatility but can he play now too?
"If I were to walk down a dark alley in a bad part of town, I'd want Ray Brown with me. And if I were to have a nice dinner at a fine restaurant, I'd want Ray Brown with me." The Late Great McKittrick
strikethrough FAIL
i put dash OR dash…didn’t realize it struck words with dashes on either side
"If I were to walk down a dark alley in a bad part of town, I'd want Ray Brown with me. And if I were to have a nice dinner at a fine restaurant, I'd want Ray Brown with me." The Late Great McKittrick
I think so
Pouncey can probably play guard right now.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 26, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he can too
and we have assurance and someone to groom. I like Pouncey a lot.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Mar 28, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Absolutely...
I think he steps in and plays LG right away if we want him to. He has experience at it too, and his character is supposedly off the charts. I’d say he’d be nearly as good as Iupati is right out of the door.
On a side note, I was looking over a 2011 mock that had the Niners taking his twin brother, Mike, in the first. Imagine that, they play together at Florida and then in SF. If you get Pitts and want to pass on a guard this year, then this is a ridiculous option. You already have continuity from day 1 between them two.
by 9thevolution on Mar 26, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions
This
Iupati I think is the type of guy who could, in a few years, plug in at just about any position. He’s big, mean, fast, agile, and a hard worker. Plus, I love Pacific Islanders.
"If I were to walk down a dark alley in a bad part of town, I'd want Ray Brown with me. And if I were to have a nice dinner at a fine restaurant, I'd want Ray Brown with me." The Late Great McKittrick
I agree, i rather have Iupati than Pouncey
Iupati can be our version of a younger Larry Allen. And we all know what Gore did with Allen on that side.
Joe and Steve were under the same system for years... don't expect Smith to be super so soon.
Iupati will be good
but he’s no Larry Allen! Larry was the strongest man to ever play in the NFL.
I know but I don’t think Baalke has the stones to trade up without really being the GM.
by hellaninersfan on Mar 24, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I dunno
it’s the kind of bold move that can lock you in.
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
depends how secure he feels. if he gets the feeling they want to find a big name to replace him, he’ll probably take the risk, since he was going to lose the job anyway unless he has a great draft. This takes Everest sized stones though. If he thinks he’ll be named GM, he’ll play it safe, maybe even go with a shotgun approach and maximize the number of picks, therefor maximizing the number of starters he drafts.
by hellaninersfan on Mar 24, 2010 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions
B . S .
love that draft …….especially when you included Toby G .. juz think’n that rathman would be xstatic with that pick ..for me trading back mean’s that this team dosent have too spend as much money for two # ones in the top twenty … they need too save some cash too resign player’s who’s contract’s are up ………..
Kewl
If there is only two draft picks I wish I could get stuck in peoples heads it would be...
Jordan Shipley
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnhauBSSm58
Morgan Burnett
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQf7WNWk7aQ
if only highlight reels guaranteed NFL production
there are a lot of good ones out there (highlight reels)
"If I were to walk down a dark alley in a bad part of town, I'd want Ray Brown with me. And if I were to have a nice dinner at a fine restaurant, I'd want Ray Brown with me." The Late Great McKittrick
Amd if you even saw Shipley play
then you’d know I wasn’t just talking about the highlight reels. How he is projected in the 3rd idk, but he’s a great receiver and a good KR, so there’s 2 birds with one stone.
seen him play for the last 2 years
he looks good in college. I think he can be good in the NFL I just can’t bet on it.
"If I were to walk down a dark alley in a bad part of town, I'd want Ray Brown with me. And if I were to have a nice dinner at a fine restaurant, I'd want Ray Brown with me." The Late Great McKittrick
Gerhart
will not last past round two. So many people have downgraded him ( non NFL people), people like us, we tend to believe our own commentary. The fact is he is a terrific
prospect with a forty time better than Gores. He’s got great feet for a big man, and very good acceleration. Two years from now we will be wishing we traded up in the second to get him this year ,as he will be a feature back somewhere else. It will be another Desean Jackson type miss if we dont go after him!
I've always mocked him in the 2nd round when doing 2 round mocks
I think he’d be a perfect fit for Detroit or Buffalo
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
What
kind of blocking scheme would be the best fit for Gerhart?
He's a power runner
so anything that doesn’t require him to cut or shift much. I think he’d probably fit really well in a zone blocking scheme (Seattle maybe).
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
But aren't zone blocking schemes
Based on cutting and finding the hole?
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 25, 2010 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I wasn't clear
by cutting I’m referring to the Barry Sanders style of play as in dancing around behind the line of scrimmage trying to find a way through.
A zone blocking scheme is a one cut type of running game.
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
It still seems like zone blocking involves much more cutting
There’s no preset hole so you often have to adjust your body and cut a different direction to find the best running lane. In a power scheme you know where the hole is so there’s not such a guessing game, you can get all your momentum headed one way, that seems to be Gerhart’s style to me. Of course I’m hardly an expert on offensive football schemes.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 26, 2010 12:15 AM PDT up reply actions
zone blocking is a one cut scheme
and you do know where you’re going before hand. It’s the linemen that don’t know for sure who they’ll end up blocking because of the way the zone is set up, but the holes are still pre-set, they just take a little longer to develop
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
Well
That goes against what I’ve heard and read. Take a stretch play for example. Yes, you know you’re going to the left but you don’t know if you are going to go in between the center and guard, the guard and tackle, off-tackle, or around the edge. You look for the open hole and make one cut into it, if you already knew which hole you were hitting there’d be no reason to make any cuts, you’d just run directly to it. That’s why they usually say vision is very important for zone blocking backs, rather than physical skills, the ability to pick the right hole is the most important part. Of course agility is also important (rather than pure speed or power), because you’ve got to cut into the right hole as soon as it opens.
Sorry, I don’t mean to be argumentative, but what you’re saying is just the opposite of everything I’ve heard. Guys like Brandon Jacobs and Jerome Bettis are built for power running schemes (what the Niners, Raiders, Giants, and Cowboys run) whereas teams like the Colts, Broncos, and Texans who run zone-blocking schemes like shiftier guys with vision like Slaton, Knowshon Moreno, Terrell Davis, Addai, Donald Brown, Edge.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 26, 2010 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions
No
He’s got the same running style as Gore and Coffee. If we draft a running back it needs to be a change of pace back.
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
We could always draft Gerhart and have the Hammer, Sickle and Spade running backs. Every running back just absolutely demolishes the defense. I love it.
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
by theghostofjasonellison on Mar 25, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Updated sig
Hopefully Graham doesn’t become a dolphin like how I have him mocked to be one.
1.Brandon Graham 1.Charles Brown 2. Syd Thompson 3.Torell Troup 4.Robert Johnson 5.Andrew Quarless 6.Mike Kafka 6.Chris Scott 7.Preston Parker
Fresh Mock
1a. RB – CJ Spiller – Gives Niners a talented COP back and a return man. Can be featured back of the future. Really no explanation needed.
1b. DB – Taylor Mays – Certainly not my favorite choice, but definitely merits the value. Freakish athlete and displayed great coachability and better ball skills at the senior bowl. Could potentially start over Lewis or any other safety immediately, Goldson excluded.
2. OT – Kyle Calloway – Multi-position player who has the upside and skills to challenge immediately for starting RT position. Good pass protection as well as run blocking. The DUI is a concern, but Boone’s been behaved and Sing can whip him into shape.
3. DB – Akwasi Owusu-Ansah – Big, fast corner. Has good range and length. Lack of prime competition drops his stock, plus he’s not incredibly physical.
4. OG – John Jerry – Great run blocker with solid pass protection. Is quick and athletic for his size. Needs to work on technique and keeping his weight where it should be, so he slides a bit.
5. WR – Mike Williams – Great straight line speed and decent route running. Can run after the catch. Does lack physicality and had past character concerns.
6a. QB – Jon Crompton – Has good size and arm strength and made better decisions as the year progressed. Looked comfortable when Tenn used pro-style offense. Will have to learn over a few years but showed the ability to get better.
*Note: Nate Davis, I believe, was McC’s pet project. I think the FO knows it needs to find a QB of the future, and bringing in someone to challenge for the third spot on the depth chart is a good idea.
6b. DB – Walter Thurmond – Good height and cover skills. Can cover return duties in spots. Weight and injury last year will make his stock fall.
7. DT – Ekom Udofia – Projects as a NT and can clog the middle to stop the run game. Has good technique.
Before anyone jumps down my throat, yes, this is secondary heavy. I think it’s necessary since it’s our glaring weakness on defense and we don’t have many glaring needs outside of that and the OL. I’ve also gone secondary heavy because outside of Brown, we don’t have a young CB who can potentially step into a starting role and I see Brown as a nickel corner.
As for not taking a first round tackle, I expect Okung, Bulaga, Williams and maybe Campbell to be gone. Davis isn’t good enough to merit either of our selections, and neither is Brown. The OL will be fine with these additions in the 2nd and 4th, so get over it.
And I’ve already covered why we should be taking a late round QB. Everyone can delude themselves, but Davis making a few drives against scrub defenses does not make him the QB of the future by default.
Fresh mock 2
Theses selections are based on the National football post. The picks are close to what the Niners are to suppose to pick in each round.
1A. – OL – Anthony Davis – May be the Nations Premire OL
1B. – CB – Kyle Wilson – Can play the line or stay with WR
2. – OL – V. Ducasse – Can delevop into a starter soon
3.- WR – Golden Tate – Just a good WR
4.- RB – Tony Gerhart – short yardage and red zone back
5. – S – Myron Rolle – Could be a total Beast if he wants to.
6A.- Michael Hoomanawanui – TE – Great Blocker and good hands and with a name like that, I got to have him.
6B. – QB – Jonathan Compton – Could be the next Sleeper , like Joe Montana ( hopefully ) – Compensatory pick
7. – WR – Seyi Ajirotutu – Good short yardage reciever with excellent hands.
I went with two OL because we didn’t sign any FA OL at this time. Pitts hasn’t decided where he may go. I doubt that he’ll sign with us. I also didn’t pick C.J. Spiller, I would have, but not in the 1st round. Next year may be a better time.
For what it’s worth, no better or worse than anyone else.
by LASVEGASNINER on Mar 25, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Thoughts
1a. There’s a lot of concerns around Davis right now. There’s no middle ground either to make an arguement. He’s projected to either be the best of the OT class this year, or he’s a complete bust. If he’s a stud like some project, then it’s a steal, but I’m concerned about his strength. 20 reps on the bench is a cause for concern when some DB’s can do more than that.
1b. It might be a bit of a reach, but not much. I like it except that he’s a little on the short side. When receivers start to get bigger over time, the mold for corners has to change as well.
2. Ducasse can likely be moved to guard if we want to, so no problems here. Plus, if Davis busts, then we have insurance.
3. Don’t think Tate will make it out of the top 10 of the 2nd round. Would be a steal though and offer us a multi dimensional player like Harvin on the Vikes,
4. Don’t think Gerhart will be around here. I also think he’s too similar to Gore and I’d rather grab a COP back either here or a little later and fill another need.
5. Rolle would be nice here if you can get him. The only real concerns are that he spent a year out of football (still stayed in shape though) and his commitment to football considering his choice of profession after his career. Still, for a fifth rounder, he could retire after four seasons and it wouldn’t have been a wasted pick if he contributed consistently.
6a. Don’t think there’s a need for a blocking TE at all and we already have two competing for that roster spot. I say always use an OL as an eligible TE so as not to waste a roster spot.
6b. Love it, but with the Pats picking just before us here, I grabbed him with the early 6th rounder to be safe. I really can’t see the Pats passing on him with their 6th comp unless they already got a QB they liked more or they like someone in the 7th or UDFA.
7. At this point, it doesn’t matter because they’re likely just a camp body who might make the PS unless they shine and turn into a gem.
by 9thevolution on Mar 26, 2010 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions
calloway
his DUI was on a moped. I just find that hilarious. probably was a joke or a dare. typical college stuff. He does come from a Kirk Ferentz coached team, who was a former O-Line coach in the NFL and is known for his o-linemen
"If I were to walk down a dark alley in a bad part of town, I'd want Ray Brown with me. And if I were to have a nice dinner at a fine restaurant, I'd want Ray Brown with me." The Late Great McKittrick
Doesn't take much to get a DUI in Iowa.
I have seen a guy get a public intox waiting for a Cab, and especially in Ia. City, Ia.
-Black Sand Ninja
I know...
it’s almost as funny as the guy who got a DUI on a lawnmower driving home from the bar. I believe that was in Ohio.
by 9thevolution on Mar 26, 2010 7:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Got My Mojo On With This One
If Berry falls to 7 trade 13th pick, 2nd round pick, and DL- Kentwan Balmer for the 7th pick and 3rd round pick, this works perfectly under the trade chart and the Browns are in need of young defensive linemen; i could easily see them making the deal
Trade 3rd round pick and RB- Michael Robinson to the Patriots for 2nd round pick. The Patriots trade down 19 slots and pick up the 3rd round selection they lost in the trade with Oakland, they also get to spread out the picks they have and get a valuable player in Michael Robinson, who can take over for Kevin Faulk, at least to some extent.
1. S- Eric Berry
1. RB- CJ Spiller
2. OT- Roger Saffold
3. G- Mike Johnson
4. WR- Jordan Shipley
5. LB- Reggie Carter
6. CB- Donovan Warren
6. DE- Brandon Sharpe
7. K- Brett Swenson/Leigh Tiffin
Okay, so before you attack me, if we are going for upgrades at special teams, we have to include getting a young kicker to replace Joe Nedney, there is said it. Besides the 7th round selection, i believe this draft would set the 49ers up for years to come. I really hope that Saffold doesn’t jump higher on the board, some mocks have him in the 1st now; if we could get him in the 2nd that would be an absolute steal, he will be better than Charles Brown, Brian Bulaga and Trent Williams, mark my words. The 1st round goes without saying, if we could get both Berry and Spiller it would be an absolute coup.
The Epic Draft trade 13th and 4th round pick to the Chargers for 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks.
1. RB- CJ Spiller 1. DE- Brandon Graham 2.OT- Charles Brown 2. FS- Nate Allen
3. WR- Damaryious Thomas 3. CB- Perrish Cox 5. LB- Reggie Carter
6. G- Brandon Carter 6. WR- Taylor Price 7. D'Anthony Smith
(What the heck name Singletary GM!!!)
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 25, 2010 10:35 PM PDT reply actions
I can't see Saffold going in the first unless there's a major run on tackles
and I guess I’m ok with drafting a place kicker in the 7th, but we tendered Shane Andrus so I can’t see us drafting one. I think he’ll end up being Nedney’s replacement.
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
If
We Can get Saffold in the 2nd i would pass on every tackle in the 1st with the exception of Okung, who will not fall to us. I would rather have the value and pick up Saffold in the 2nd while being able to go BPA with both 1st round picks. Despite the fact that the 49ers are going to be a good team in 2010 and be in contention, they still do have holes at tackle, guard, wide receiver, defensive end, corner and safety. So doesn’t it make sense not to reach for a tackle in the 1st when it is extremely possible Saffold will fall to us in the 2nd?
The Epic Draft trade 13th and 4th round pick to the Chargers for 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks.
1. RB- CJ Spiller 1. DE- Brandon Graham 2.OT- Charles Brown 2. FS- Nate Allen
3. WR- Damaryious Thomas 3. CB- Perrish Cox 5. LB- Reggie Carter
6. G- Brandon Carter 6. WR- Taylor Price 7. D'Anthony Smith
(What the heck name Singletary GM!!!)
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 25, 2010 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions
This is why it makes more sense to trade both firsts so we can pick in the top of the second and take Saffold.
Then we have another 2nd rounder 3rd and two 4ths which can address pr/kr, 3rd on another G if that floats your boat.
-Black Sand Ninja
Trade Both Firsts?
Please do explain
The Epic Draft trade 13th and 4th round pick to the Chargers for 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks.
1. RB- CJ Spiller 1. DE- Brandon Graham 2.OT- Charles Brown 2. FS- Nate Allen
3. WR- Damaryious Thomas 3. CB- Perrish Cox 5. LB- Reggie Carter
6. G- Brandon Carter 6. WR- Taylor Price 7. D'Anthony Smith
(What the heck name Singletary GM!!!)
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 25, 2010 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Here I go again
trade #13 and 17(2100pts) to the Browns if Berry falls to #7,#39, and #103.(1500+510+88 pts).
In this scenario we have an early 2nd for Saffold plus our 17th in the 2nd round and pick up an additional 4th, we also have the option of moving #49 and #79 and move back in the backend of the first (you can try).
1. E Berry
2a Saffold
2b CB of your taking
3. Another CB or WR
4a BGuardA
4b. Bkr/prA
5. PR De for the Nickel
6 and 7 whatever you want.
And we get the best prospect in the draft.
-Black Sand Ninja
Saffold...
I can easily see him going to the Colts in the first. He fits the mold they like for their OL and with Brown (who also fits the Colts mold) likely already off the board, they will grab Saffold. It’s not much of a reach at this point because he’s steadily rising despite nothing really changing. His stock is going up because there should be a push on tackles in the first. Though most of that thought process is based on the Niners taking a tackle in the first with no exception.
by 9thevolution on Mar 26, 2010 7:36 AM PDT up reply actions
yeah
there will be a few surprise picks (not all from the Raiders either!)
"If I were to walk down a dark alley in a bad part of town, I'd want Ray Brown with me. And if I were to have a nice dinner at a fine restaurant, I'd want Ray Brown with me." The Late Great McKittrick
Every pick the Raiders make surprises me without fail. I can easily see them drafting Spiller this year depite having a backup who should be starting over McFadden.
by 9thevolution on Mar 26, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
probably take
Trindon Holiday in the first, just because…or Jacoby Ford.
"If I were to walk down a dark alley in a bad part of town, I'd want Ray Brown with me. And if I were to have a nice dinner at a fine restaurant, I'd want Ray Brown with me." The Late Great McKittrick
I would laugh...
Maybe even harder than I did last year when I heard DHB called. Yet another year of ragging on my brother who’s a Raider fan. It brings me great joy.
by 9thevolution on Mar 26, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I can't wait for the head scratchers this year
and there will be some. If you keep track of every time you hear an “expert” say “he could make his way into the first round” you’ll realize there are like 70 guys in that conversation…
"If I were to walk down a dark alley in a bad part of town, I'd want Ray Brown with me. And if I were to have a nice dinner at a fine restaurant, I'd want Ray Brown with me." The Late Great McKittrick
Agreed...
Some of the so-called “experts” know less about the draft and football in general than we all do.
by 9thevolution on Mar 26, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
1a. CJ Spiller
Still have yet to hear a legitimate argument as to why this is not thepick at 13, except for the argument that we could get him at 17. Why risk it? This kid is special.
1b. Taylor Mays
His coachability has been expounded upon here, and after reading others opinions and listening to some of his interviews, I’ll buy in to the hype. With Goldson, Mays, and Willis and an emerging pass rush, our D would be bringing the pain on every down.
2. Roger Saffold
Might not fall here, but this is an ideal draft, right? Powerful, skilled lineman who allowed 3 sacks and 1 pressure in his final 440 college pass plays, according to nfldraftscout.com.
3. Mardy Gilyard
Again, may not fall here. But Josh Morgan is not the answer, and Gilyard gives us another extraordinary playmaker on offense. Can you imagine being an opposing D and having to face some combination of Crabtree, VD, Gilyard, Gore, and Spiller on 3rd down? Niner fans will finally remember what “3rd down conversion” means.
4. Akwasi Owusu-Ansah or John Jerry
Owusu-Ansah is getting alot of hype as a great value pick, which worries me in to thinking he’ll hop up to round 3. Big, physical corner, who’s name means “Born on Sunday”. Gotta love it. Jerry also may not fall this far. But this is my draft, and I can cry if I want to!
(An alternative option that may be more realistic, but would force me to cut my mancrush Gilyard, would be Jerry/Ansah in the 3rd, and Jacoby Ford in the 4th)
Still have yet to hear a legitimate argument as to why this is not thepick at 13, except for the argument that we could get him at 17. Why risk it? This kid is special.
If you haven’t heard a legitimate argument the problem isn’t the argument but the receptors in your ears. There a lots of arguments against CJ Spiller or any player likely slotted at #13.
Or maybe I just spend too much time around here ;). I see your point…what I guess I meant is that I see the case for Spiller at 13 significantly stronger than the case for anyone else at that point, barring some miraculous drop of a top-tier guy.
by InTimmyWeTrust on Mar 28, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Ansah?
I’m pretty sure he plays corner and could be one of the best ones available in this draft.
by 9thevolution on Mar 29, 2010 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I like Ansah a lot
Small school guy but lots of possibliity. KR/PR guy. Has played some safety. Tall, fast, ballhawk.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Mar 29, 2010 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Ideal with a bit of dreaming and then a dose of reality
(Just bathering off the top of my head) Ideal would be for us to find Berry had a fall and dropped to us at 13 (secondary Ideal: Browns take our 17 and 2 and give us a pick or two later rounds say 4 and 6) then we see Spiller taking a drop and are able to move down to like 20-22 and get a 2 or 3 picked up out of the move and still get Spiller. Then with that 2 we pick up to get Saffold in the second with the 2 we picked up. And then in the 3rd get a CB like Ansah. In the 4th get a bruiser like Petrus at OG and then in the 5th pick up Jamar Chaney at iLB then with 3 6th rounders we pick up Barnes at WR and Pender at CB and Geathers at DE.
So…
1A Pick 7 S Eric Berry
1B Pick 20 RB CJ Spiller
2 Pick 56 OT Roger Saffold
3 Pick 80 CB/KR Akwasi Owusu Ansah
4 OG Mitch Petrus
5 ILB Jamar Chaney
6A WR Freddie Barnes
6B CB David Pender
6C DE Clifford Geathers
7 OLB Dexter Davis (or Adrian Tracy)
UDFA WR Scott Long, QB Bill Stull (brought in for a visit and given a try and since we’re talking ideal ends up being either the #1 or #2 QB this time next year. We ship out Smith and Carr for reasonable picks say a 4 and a 5)
So that would be ideal and probably won’t happen LOL in fact most probably won’t happpen. But there are possibilities for a lot of that happening.
/dreaming LOL
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Mar 28, 2010 12:02 PM PDT reply actions
That is an ideal draft
Can’t see it shaking out that way—especially Spiller falling to #20.
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
LOL it said Ideal
And I went with it.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Mar 28, 2010 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Ideal... Fix the line!
1a- CJ Spiller
1b- Mike Lupati
2- Roger Staffold
3- Best safety on the board (who would be around in the third???)
4- Jordan Shipley
5- Walter Thurmond
6- T. Holliday
7- BAP
LT- Staley
LG -Rachel
C -Heitmann
RG -Lupati
RT -Staffold
Gore and Spiller would both rush for 1.000+ !!!!!!!! : )
Why is Rachal playing LG? Keep him at RG.
I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff
Also surviving member of the underwhelming Jed York Conference Thread 3/22/2010
Eat Shitake!
by Hoopers Judge on Mar 28, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
he was starting to do ok at RG then move him to the other side so you have essentially 3 out of 5 of your OL being rookies? Doesn’t work out.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Mar 28, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
why draft a guy who plays LG (Iupati) and then move him to RG? Doesn’t make sense.
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
And didn't he have problems at both
right positions? Both Right Tacke and Right gaurd?
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Mar 28, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually Iupati plays LG not RG.. and Rachal is RG not LG..
But I like the OL this way
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
If you mean Holliday with our Comp
then I’m ok withat that not great with it but ok. BAP as you say it in the 7th might just be him.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Mar 28, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Lupati at LG
I agree with that, and I think this would be a dominate Oline. Gore and Spiller would have a fun time running behind these guys.. and give Smith a longer time to find the open receiver. What we need is offense. I think this draft extremely improves our offense.
Realistic and would fill all of our needs
1a – Haden (because no way Berry falls this far, Mc Courty is ok, but not worth the 13th pick, and Wilson is supposedly a poor tackler.)
1b – Graham (let’s not kid ourselves, a bunch of our sacks last year came against 2 teams, the Rams and Lions, I think. We still need a top-flight pass rusher. I don’t believe Lawson or Haralson is that player, and Brooks, although promising, is still not proven and needs more seasoning/playing time. Graham was 2nd in the nation last year in tackles for losses and 7th in sacks. He was in the backfield something ridiculous, like 85 times last year, I heard. We need his skills at OLB, where is projected to play in the 3-4.)
2 – Saffold (Here is where we get our future RT. I would trade our comp 6th round pick to move up in the 2nd to get him if we have to. The man had only one sack allowed last year. Started 44 consective games. Allowed only 3 sacks and one pressure in his final 440 collegiate pass plays. Played on an Indiana team that suffered through back to back losing seasons, yet broke 2000 yards rushing both seasons, averaging 4.5 yards per carry. All this while playing with a back injury. Best OL on the field in the Shrine Game. Believe me, I would take Okung or Balaga at 13, or possibly Willams at 17, if any of them were still available, but I seriously doubt that will happen. The other OTs, Davis, Campbell, and Ducasse all have inexperience, skill, or motivation issues and imo, do not warrant a mid 1st round pick.)
3 – John Jerry (Dominating run blocker/mauler we need in the interior line. If Pitts doesn’t sign, or Bass or Rachal falter, we can plug Jerry in.)
4 – Brandon Spikes (Once thought to be a late 1st-2nd round pink, nfldraftscout.com now has him falling to round 3-4 because of his poor combine workout. Our next future MLB to pair with Willis for the next 7-8 years. If he’s not available, then we go with Jordan Shipley, also projected to fall to 4 with his poor workout, or Mardy Gilyard)
5 – Myron Rolle (we need a safety badly, and I think this guy is highly underrated. Just because he has the brains to pursue another career doesn’t mean that he won’t be motivated enough to play football. He has all the skills and insists that he is passionate about playing football. Other than Berry and Thomas, he is the only other one I see having success in the NFL. But, unfortunately, we used our 1st round picks for Haden and Graham. Although, I might be open to taking Thomas instead of Graham. Trust me, Mays will be a bust. He can beat Usain Bolt in a footrace, but a safety with zero ball skills and rocks as hands?? No thanks!)
6 – La Garrette Blount (Due to his overreaction early in the season, he was suspended and his draft stock suffered. However, he seems to have been humbled and reformed by the experience. If not, Singletary will definitely keep him in check. A 6’4", 241 bruiser with good speed, who will hit and hole and run over defenders. Cannot be brought down with arm tackles, and often needs more than one tackler to bring him down. A steal at this pick. We don’t know how much longer until Gore breaks down again, and until Coffee proves himself, I’m not sold on him yet. I would also be open to Gerhart in the 3rd, but unfortunately that pick is used for Jerry. And, I think Gerhart and Blount are essentially equal in skill level. So, I would prefer to use a 6th round pick for a non-essential need.)
6b – possibly traded with 2 to move up and get Saffold. If not then, grab Trindon Holliday for our PR/KR.
7 – Holliday or O’Brien Schofield (another elite pass rusher who fell because of injury), if we get Holliday already in the 6th.
There you have it, with this draft, we fill our needs at RT, G, CB, Pass Rushing OLB, SS, and KR/PR. And, we get an elite MLB and good RB as well.
Thoughts...
1a. McCourty and Wilson may be a reach at this point, but it’s Haden who has poor run support and tackling skills. Plus he gets run over by larger receivers with a good head of steam. He also doesn’t do PR/KR duties. IMO, you just wasted a pick on a guy who’ll only amount to a nickel corner.
1b. Great pick, even if it’s a slight reach. Can’t get much better here, but I’d have rather grabbed him at #13 and then taken Wilson or McCourty here for CB help.
2. Great value again. I wouldn’t trade the Comp (which by the way, you can’t trade) because T will be pretty deep in the 2nd round. Plus, a 6th rounder isn’t worth anything to a team high in the 2nd.
3. Good pick. LG is solved for the forseeable future.
4. Not bad. I don’t think he’ll fall that far, but if he does, it would be good value. His game speed is better than his 40 time suggests.
5. Not bad here either. Rolle’s only question is in his dedication to football considering his persuit of his doctorate. You can still get 6 years out of him and that’d more than pay his worth at this pick. I’d rather have Jones from Georgia, but he’s likely gone at this point.
6a. We need a COP back, not a giant bruiser. Holliday would solve this, but Blount isn’t a good fit for us right now.
6b. Can’t trade it, so I’ll fill in. QB John Crompton. Gives us competition for the third QB spot and I think he’s better than Davis and could be a promising starter. If your on the “Nate Davis is our Future” bandwagon, then replace this with another position.
7. If you already got Holliday, the I’ll just say the pick is Schofield. He could be gone already, but it’s a nice pick. Though he has to learn completely how to play LB because he isn’t going to play DL.
Only thing I really see missing is a prototypical NT prospect. Franklin could be gone next year and we need to start grooming his replacement.
by 9thevolution on Mar 29, 2010 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions
No on Blount
sorry but no on Blount and also Bryant (though you didn’t mention him, others have). Love Saffold, not happy about Haden, just feel like he’s not going to live up to the hype, and would be willing to have made that caution mistake and trade down even a bit and get another CB later like Wilson or McCourty or such. Wouldn’t be upset with Jerry really but might want to put the OG position at later and go for Petrus or Newhouse (but those would be pretty much my choices at OG, Jerry, Petrus, Newhouse, or maybe Wang to play at OG at least for a while).
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Mar 29, 2010 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions
1. I don’t know about Haden. He seems like a shutdown corner to me, similar to Darelle Revis. If he comes even close, I would think it would be worth the pick. Then, we would have a CB (Spencer) who could match up against the larger receivers in our division, and a speedy CB to shut down the faster ones. However, if you are right about Haden, then I wouldn’t mind taking Thomas here either. We need just as much help at safety as CB. If that is the case, then the 5th round pick goes to someone else.
2. I don’t think Saffold will make it past the early 40’s. In fact, he may not make it out of the 1st round at all, as I hear Indy is very interested in him. But, I sure hope he does, for our sakes. And, if the comp 6th is not enough to move us up in the 2nd to take him, then offer a 3rd, 4th or 5th. Whatever it takes to get him.
About NT, I don’t think the FO will get Franklin escape next year, unless he has a disappointing season. Unfortunately, I don’t see any good NT prospects further down the chart.
I'd rather us look for
a rusher late at DE in the later rounds..Clifford Geathers should be a late 6th maybe 7th guy and has some skills at rushing.
Then I’m eyeing Powe or the kid from Hampton for NT next year.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Mar 29, 2010 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Trades....
Trading away a mid round pick just to move up a few spots in a round is how you cripple your team. Depth is built through mid rounds in the draft and you need all the picks you can get. Trading away a 3rd, 4th or 5th to move up ten spots in the second round is only going to take away some of the depth we’ll likely add at OL, DB, LB, RB or even a QB to groom. It’s not smart drafting, and Saffold is not an absolute need. There’s other tackle prospects available who can be just as good.
Don’t forget, Solari took a rookie 5th round lineman last year in Seattle and made him a functioning starter. I have faith that any OL taken in the 2nd round will be a day 1 starter and an improvement.
by 9thevolution on Mar 30, 2010 7:24 AM PDT up reply actions
I disagree
Depth is not built through mid round picks. I’ll have to do some research on this, but there are very few starters on any NFL team that came from rounds later than the 3rd.
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
You just supported my point...
I’ll have to do some research on this, but there are very few starters on any NFL team that came from rounds later than the 3rd.
If starters are coming from the first two rounds, then depth is built through the mid rounds, correct?
by 9thevolution on Mar 30, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Misunderstood you
most people use the argument of building your team by using mid-rounders to refer to starters.
Yes, backups come from mid-to late rounds, but I’d rather have top-notch starters. You can find backups through FA or by picking up UDFA.
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
True...
you can find backups through FA, but I’d rather take a chance to get ’em in the draft and hope they can develop into starters. Our guys may not be stars, but a lot of our team is built through mid round guys that progress and develop.
DL – Sopoaga, Franklin
LB – Harrelson, Brooks
DB – Brown, Goldson, Spencer
OL – Baas, Snyder, Heitmann
WR – Morgan, Hill
TE – Walker
RB – Gore, Coffee
P – Lee
Not all drafted by the Niners, but guys that were mid to late round picks and have become (for the most part) solid or good starters. Again, I’d rather they build their own depth and maybe build a starter than take someone else’s scrub who couldn’t hack it.
by 9thevolution on Mar 30, 2010 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Revis?? LOL
He is a tad bit stronger and faster. Haden can not man cover wel in my opinion.
Alex Smith is a product of poor coaching and poor management -Black Sand Ninja
He's very susceptible to receivers making a doulbe move on him
and he can’t cover his guys over the middle
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
This
He can’t seem to read WRs.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Apr 2, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice mock....
Joe and Steve were under the same system for years... don't expect Smith to be super so soon.
like it...
Niners would be much improved if they could pull off the above draft. Not big on Spikes though. And, may not end up getting a KR/PR.
Spikes will probably be there in the 4th
his 40 times were on par with offensive linemen’s 40 times. Not good.
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
Gotta fill needs
1. Mike Iupati- OG- Idaho-Plug in at either guard or RT. Immediate upgrade.
1. Sergio Kindle- OLB Texas- Pass rush becomes a strength- Lawson trade?
2. Patrick Robinson- CB- Florida St- Pass defense immediately better.
3. Chris Scott- OT- Tennessee or M Johnson-OG- Alabama
4. Jordan Shipley- WR- Texas or Riley Cooper- WR- Florida
5. Charles Scott- RB- LSU or Ben Tate- Auburn or Legarette Blount- Oregon
6. Freddie Barnes- WR- Bowling Green
7. Lee Campbell- LB- Minnesota
Are you kidding? Where you gonna get your attack pass rush, cover backs in routes? Lawson gonna do that for ya? How about this guy on one side and Brooks on the other with Haralyson for backup. Pass coverage starts with the rush.
by djwilliamsisu on Mar 30, 2010 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Wouldn't like an OLB in the 1st
But I’d much rather Graham than Kindle.
by InTimmyWeTrust on Mar 30, 2010 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Same here.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 31, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions
At some point he could be BPA, but not a need in the first, not when we were 3rd in the league in sacks.
I want the best player in the draft.
Graham Concern
There’s also concern that he only played with his hand down at Michigan and some scouts are worried about his ability to create pressure without his hand on the ground.
Leave that to the FO
If they really are concerned/interested they’ll likely schedule a work out or something to see if he can play in a 2-point stance.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 31, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
The only way I would like to see Graham in a Niner uniform next year if it was the product of us trading down, and getting an extra 2nd. If we left with Spiller, Graham, and then say Veldheer and Nate Allen in the 2nd I would be very pleased.
by InTimmyWeTrust on Apr 1, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Lawson is great in coverage and in run support
And the 49ers were tied for 3rd in the NFL in sacks (43 I believe).
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 31, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions
You have to remember a majority of those sacks were in 2 or 3 games against the league’s worst teams.
we rarely "brought the house"
we were relying on coverage sacks – that’s how our D works(ed last year)
This is BS too
Read grantmp’s Niners Sack Tracker
9 of our 44 sacks can be called coverage sacks. That’s only 1/3, which is hardly us “relying” on them.
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
If I recall correctly
Most of them were team sacks?
Which is pretty good.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Apr 2, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Lots of 'em
and I agree—that’s a good thing.
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
actually, smiley...
… 9 out of 44 is considerably less than 1/3, it’s around 20%…
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
as MM pointed out a while ago
Teams usually put up stats against bad teams – that goes for teams other than the 49ers.
Ok well then you have to discredit the Ravens and Steelers and Bengals.
Then you have to discredit the Vikings and Packers. Also anyone who has a weak OL in their division, keep in mind we play that weak competition every year.
I want the best player in the draft.
This
The Vikings play the Lions two times a year.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Apr 2, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Happens with every single team.
Teams ranked ahead of the 49ers in sacks
1. Minnesota. Had a couple of games with 0 sacks, one game with 1 (vs us), and several with 2. 13 of their sacks came on two games, that’s a full 1/3
2. Pittsburgh. Had 3 games with just 1 sack, another 6 with just 2. Had 12 sacks in just 2 games.
3. Miami. Had 3 games with just 1 sack, another with no sacks. Had 11 sacks in just 2 games.
4. Philadelphia. They were the the most consistent, but they still 2 games with just 1 sack. Most of their games they had 2 sacks in, and 10 of their sacks came in just 2 games.
5. 49ers had a stat line very similar to Minnesota. Couple of games with no sacks, one game with 8 (St. Louis), a bunch of others with 4 and 5.
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
How is that a bad thing?
If the 49ers were putting up 0 sacks vs. the Rams and Lions I’d be pissed.
But they dominate them, as they should.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Apr 2, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Where you gonna get your attack pass rush, cover backs in routes? Lawson gonna do that for ya?
Yeah. Pretty much.
Wasn’t Manny Lawson the team leader (and near the top in the league) in QB hurries last year despite not being in most 3rd down sets? And it’s not like he’s a poor coverage linebacker. Fact is, Lawson is one of the best players on our defense at this point, especially in run support.
If we were going to replace anyone at the position it would be Parys Haralson, who was a big disappointment (to some…I never expected much from him, to be honest) last year in terms of pass rush, and he is an absolute liability against the run.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
I like Lawson and agree with your statement but he is mostly likely to be replaced because he could be the 4th or 5th priority on the 49ers roster by the time he hits free agency. If the 49ers are interested in keeping him the best thing they could do is try to lock him up in a longer term contract before the season, at least his contract would be reasonably.
Mock
1a) Eric Berry
1b) Brian Bulaga, Anthony Davis, Trent Williams (in order of preference).
2) Ciron Black, OT, LSU – 49ers draft a second OL, and play Black at guard, Black being a good run-blocker. Could play OT, if needed.
3) Mardy Gilyard, WR, Cincinatti – Provides depth at WR and is the KR the 49ers need.
4) Linval Joseph, DT, E. Carolina – Listed at 6’4, 328 lbs, ran a 5.09 second 40 yard dash time and performed 39 reps at 225 lbs at the combine. If I didn’t know any better, I’d say that Joseph is in terrific shape! 60 tackles, 13 TFL and 3 sacks as a Junior (2009). Would provide depth at NT. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFTupdBOe7o&feature=fvw
5) Walter Thurmond or other talented corner back.
6a) Jeff Byers, OL, USC – Undersized, but is very athletic and strong for size. Provides more competition and depth
6b) LaMarkus Coker, RB – Good value and provides competition
6c) Dexter Davis, OLB, Arizona State – 11 sacks as a junior but only 3.5 as a senior. 6’2, 244, 4.56 40 yd dash and 25 reps on the bench.
7) Brandon James, RB/KR, Florida – Speed, speed and more speed. Lacks size and power, but would be looked at as a returner. Play-maker for the Gators on special teams.
Yeah we have one Compensatory 6th rounder
Pick 206 or so I believe. And I don’t see Miner having noted a trade of any sort.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Apr 4, 2010 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions
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