The Front Office Has My Full Support!!
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 6, 2010 5:54 PM PST
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I am one that usually doesn't support the front office of the San Francisco 49ers, too many times over the course of the last decade they have let me down. From being too aggressive in the free agent market (Jonas Jennings) to being too conservative (see last off-season). In fact, this front office has not given us much reason to be supportive or even have any confidence in what they are doing.
Though I believe the 2010 off-season is an incredibly different story. The 49ers have a crazy amount of young talent that they must be thinking about locking up long term
Vernon Davis: The 49ers would have to mold their contract offer to Davis around the one Brent Celek signed with Philadelphia late last season. Celek received 6 years at 33 million, 11 guaranteed link . Even that may not get it done as Davis has proven to be a better TE with much more upside
Dashon Goldson: We can all say that we are glad that Antrel Rolle left the Arizona Cardinals for the New York Giants, but it did one thing; completely open up the market for Dashon Goldson. We can have our arguments about what Golden's strengths and weaknesses are, but one thing is for sure, he is a better all around player than Rolle. So what does that mean? Rolle received 37 million over 5 seasons link . I am not sure if we are looking at a contract in that range considering Rolle is an all-pro and Goldson isn't, well just yet. I do think it is fare to say that Goldson will receive a contract in the range of 24-30 million over 5 seasons.
Patrick Willis: Okay now this is difficult; how do you gauge a LB's importance to a defense? In general, Linebackers do not receive contracts up there with Defensive linemen over even corner backs, but Willis is a once in a generation type of player and will demand mad money. Ray Lewis signed a 3Y-25MD contract with Baltimore in March of last season link , but Willis is destined to get a lot more years and guaranteed money on his contract, but we could use that as an indicator and say something like 7Y-60M with 30M guaranteed? Am i wrong to assume that? Lets look at other MLB's in the NFL, most don't eve compare to Willis in terms of productivity and talent. Bart Scott received a 5Y-40MD Contract from the Jets last off-season link . AJ Hawk even received a 6Y-37MD rookie contract in 2006 link . I think it goes without saying that Willis will demand and get a lot more cash when his contract comes up, rather we lock him up now at my value listed above.
Aubrayo Franklin: The 49ers franchised him earlier this off-season and he will earn nearly 8 million dollar in 2010, but both sides want to get a long term deal done. So lets look at comparative contracts. Vince Wilfork just signed a 5Y-40MD extension with the Patriots link and Casey Hampton got a 3Y-21MD Contract extension with the Steelers link . I think Franklin gets a contract in Hampton's range, maybe a little more; about 3Y-25MD sound about right to me
If the 49ers do indeed lock up these four players, they would have committed nearly 150 million dollars to four players and about 83 million guaranteed, this according to my projections. That is a lot of cash to dole out to four players. This doesn't even include the players who will be looking for larger contracts in the near future; Manny Lawson, Ahmad Brooks, Josh Morgan, Alex Smith and Shawntae Spencer. The 49ers will also have two 1st round picks in 2010 which will cost them tens of millions of dollars. We all know that the 2010 off-season is an anomaly, if there is no lockout or strike in 2011, it will be played under a salary cap.
So the 49ers need to make decisions, difficult decisions. Lock up the players we have now, those players who are going to be the cornerstones of our franchise? Or go after players like Antrel Rolle and Julius Peppers, who in this mediocre free agent market could be boom or bust. Look how free agency has turned the Redskins into an absolute jokes, while teams like the Steelers, Chargers and Colts build through the draft, with a random free agent signing sprinkled in.
Now am i saying completely ignored the free agent/trade market? Or course not, i am even supported the idea of going after Antonio Cromartie and Anquan Boldin and now i support trading for Jared Gaither, this of course dependent on the compensation we may receive. Some of us, including me, have attacked the front office for going after David Carr, but putting behind our bias lets me honest for a second. David Carr is a better fit as our backup than Shaun Hill is. I seriously love Shaun Hill, that dude has guts and that is hard to measure, plus he is a locker room favorite. Yet in this system David Carr's intangebles are better than Shaun Hill's, it is that simple. Why throw mad money at a mediocre free agent class only because it is an uncapped year? It isn't like the NFL is going to resort to the ways of Major League Baseball, is it? Also as a 28 year old guy i remember all too well the cap hell this team was in because of the overspending of Dwight Clark on players like Gabe Wilkins and Antonio Langham, let us never forget that.
In ending, let us not get in an uproar over the 49ers perceived "lack" of interest in this free agent class, i am sure things would have been different if a CBA would have been reached and players like Marcus McNeil, OJ Atogwe, Brandon Marshall etc... would have been available without giving up crazy compensation. I still do expect the 49ers to add a couple of free agents here and there, and no i am not talking about David Carr. But in the end, the 49ers approach is the best one for them to take. With 4 players looking for extensions and coming to the end of their deals, two 1st round picks in 2010, a young and talented team, and the atmosphere of the NFC West it makes absolutely no sense for the 49ers to open up their wallets and risk overspending on average players while losing the ability to re-sign their core players. Sometimes it is best that the most passionate observers remain the fans while those pegged to make the decisions remain more level headed!!!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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Yeah
i am sure of it too
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 6, 2010 6:28 PM PST up reply actions
9 votes and all yes
Dansby’s deal will be the one that Patrick will base his off. Dansby got a 5 year, $43 million dollar deal with $22 million guaranteed.
Expect Willis to get something like 6 years, $50 million with $30 million guaranteed because he’s a much better LB than Dansby, is younger, and has far more upside.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
Dansby?
I have one point to make.You said Wiilis is “much better than Dansby, is younger and has far more upside” .Then why would he settle for a contract that offers just one more season and 7million with just 8 million more guaranteed? I think we are looking at a record LB contract.
I am waiting for the fire Scotty m crowd.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 6, 2010 6:53 PM PST up reply actions
I was basing it on what I thought was the highest LB contract in history
and it’s not. Doing some further research Terrell Suggs last year got a 6 year, $63 million deal with $38.1 million guaranteed.
That will signficantly impact what Willis can expect. Maybe he’ll become the first $40 million LB in history. 7 years, $70 million with $40 million guaranteed? That way we can lock him down for a long time but he still gets paid better than any other LB in history?
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
And You Know What?
I honestly think he is worth it. See that is what my point is; it makes absolutely not sense to throw money/picks at this average free agent class, unless of course you can get a player at a need position, that is relatively young and may not cost you the top pick 13 and 17 to be precise. Understand where i am coming from?
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 6, 2010 7:07 PM PST up reply actions
I would normally want to slap a guy giving a number like 7 years, but Patrick Willis?…Lock him up for life.
49ers por vida
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Mar 6, 2010 9:43 PM PST up reply actions
Interesting for you to bring that up
Hideki Matsui once played baseball in Japan for the “Giants” (of Tokyo?) and when he considered leaving for the MLB, the Giants offered him a lifetime contract.
When he was done playing baseball, he would be the manager.
He passed on it to play for the Yankees.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 9, 2010 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
The thing with Suggs' deal...
He’s a DE/OLB hybrid. He got paid as a pass rusher.
Would Willis be worth a deal like that? Absolutely (although I am kinda squeamish about doubling Dansby’s deal but that subsided), but you can’t really base it off of Suggs’s deal.
I Am Under The Impression
that Willis could get between 8-10 sacks per season; we just use him more as an all around LB. The dude can pass rush, run stop, drop back in coverage. If you are talking about Suggs getting that deal because he is a pass rusher, which is most likely, then wouldn’t Willis be worth more?
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 6, 2010 7:19 PM PST up reply actions
I said he would be. I fully expect Willis to sign a record breaking contract due to his age and ability. I think he will hit that $9-10 million a year.
I was just saying that Suggs’s contract is based on the fact that he’s a pass rusher like Ware, Williams, Freeney, Peppers. Premier pass rushers get paid.
Willis' contract will one of the most lucrative contracts ever for a MLB, at least it is warranted.
The 49ers organization seems to be more like the Pats in this regard. Hence, not buckling to Crabtree. I see Willis taking less than the highest ever paid to a MLB, just top continue with the team. I can guarantee you that if Sing is ever moved players will become money hungry. I don’t see that Goldson is worth the contract that Rolle received, simply because he has one season of production. Paying Rolle more than Palumalo and Reed and any other safety ever was a mistake on the Giants part and will not be repeated by the 49ers. We mave see Goldson take an exit, it could happen.
I have a problem with the FO, not acquiring veteran OL in the offseason, most teams that win in the playoffs make these moves. Personally, I think Clements needs to restructure, he is NOT worth what he set to be paid and I hope that is also apart of the offseason contract negotiations. I also like that the FO has not jumped after the OT’s that are available to obtain for draft picks, but I hope they are making inquiries. Not jumping all over it saves us money if we do happen to make a move for a FA.
This is the main reason I don’t see the FO trading up for Berry, they have to pay a Drew Rosenhaus player in Goldson and that would tie up a lot of money at the safety position. The Fo at least has the Teams financial futur in mind while moving forward, so it’s hard on fans that want this team to win now. There is a strong possibility that we are another year away from the playoffs, the moves in AZ DO NOT guarantee anything. I also feel that A Smith has a lot to do with the direction the team is taking, if he performs at a high livel next season, he will need ot be paid as well.
Mock, Yeah, ing, Yeah, Berry Yeah, Yeah, Yeah
CLE #7- 1500pts, #39 510 pts, #103 92pts--49ers 2 1st 2200pts
1a. traded for Berry, 1b. traded for Berry(CLE) 1c. #7 Eric Berry, 2a(Cle) Valdheer, 2b Mike Johnson OG, 3. Jacoby Ford WR, 4a(Cle) D McCourty 4b. Stephen Williams, 5. Trindion Holliday, 6. Zac Robinson 7. FB
We may have to see Goldson take an exit (end of 1st paragraph)
Mock, Yeah, ing, Yeah, Berry Yeah, Yeah, Yeah
CLE #7- 1500pts, #39 510 pts, #103 92pts--49ers 2 1st 2200pts
1a. traded for Berry, 1b. traded for Berry(CLE) 1c. #7 Eric Berry, 2a(Cle) Valdheer, 2b Mike Johnson OG, 3. Jacoby Ford WR, 4a(Cle) D McCourty 4b. Stephen Williams, 5. Trindion Holliday, 6. Zac Robinson 7. FB
Don’t think Goldson will be as good as Berry is going to be.
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Mar 6, 2010 8:47 PM PST up reply actions
Whats your point? So trade up so we can release Goldson?
The point is, are we going to pay our players or not? I don’t think we will trade up, because we already have a guy that is succeeding in NFL NOW. I wouldn’t trade up for Berry, even if he COULD be better than Goldson, because we already have Goldson.
Whats your reason for asking, he was making a point, but he wasn't saying trade up or release anyone.
I made a statement that Goldson may want Rolle money and he does not have a body of work to justify making him the highest paid safety in the league, I hope you don’t think he deserves it!!
Still thinking we should trade up for Berry!!
Goldson’s stats were better than Rolle’s and he got Rosehaus as his new agent… he’s gonna get paid even if it means leaving the Niners. Whether he deserves it or not is irrelevant. All athletes are overpaid anyway, so what does it matter???
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
Like Ninjames says, “it’s not like its coming out of our pockets anyway”. Pay tha man!
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
I can't agree, I am thinkin about the team going forward and there is no reason to overpay to keep him.
Is his contract up? Is he restricted? If so put a tender on him and tell him kiss the baby!!
Still thinking we should trade up for Berry!!
Not if he shows up next year and ends up being a pro bowler. There would be no reason to get rid of him. If he earns his money he deserves to get paid.
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
I was kind of hoping that they would exted him half-way through last season
As they did with Brown.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 9, 2010 6:02 PM PST up reply actions
Would have been smarter, but he has been injury prone.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
True
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 10, 2010 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
So one full season warrants him being the highest paid Safety, since it's contract time and th Giants over paid?
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
I dont care what we have to do to keep him if he's a Pro Bowler
Like I said above, I dont have to pay for it, so I dont really care what he does get or doesnt
Crowded elevators smell different to midgets.
I'm assuming it will be after next season
So two full seasons.
And I think Eric Berry will be the highest paid safety in the NFL.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 10, 2010 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
Nope
He’ll fall out of the top 5, probably to #7-9 and so will end up making about $5 million a year
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
You think so?
I was thinking that the Cheifs may consider him since he could possibly play CB.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 11, 2010 10:00 PM PST up reply actions
For whatever reason Rolle has a bigger reputation than Goldson
so I don’t think Goldson gets the same contract that Rolle does unless Goldson turns in a full year at the same level he did the last half of 2009
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
Rolle got over paid Goldson isn’t going to get that kind of money
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Mar 7, 2010 9:23 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
If he dominates next year he wil probably get more.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 9, 2010 6:02 PM PST up reply actions
We can have both starting at the same time though
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 9, 2010 6:01 PM PST up reply actions
I think Willis will get more than Suggs
And he deserves it.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 6, 2010 7:57 PM PST up reply actions
Pass rushers get more money than ILBs do
1.Brandon Graham 1.Charles Brown 2. Syd Thompson 3.Torell Troup 4.Andrew Quarless 5.John Jerry 6.Mike Kafka 7.Quinton Andrews 7.Preston Parker
But Willis is like 10x better than any other ILB in the NFL
In Danny’s post on the defense he mentions that the 49ers drafting Willis was a major reason why we have such a great defense today.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 9, 2010 6:03 PM PST up reply actions
Your Right
I wasn’t questioning you; rather i was validating the fact that Willis should receive that record breaking contract; i know the 49ers FO are fully aware of that
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 6, 2010 7:31 PM PST reply actions
FIRE MCC
From the way I see it, Nolan had to do more with all these moves you have listed than McCloughan.
Marvel Smith & Brandon Jones those were our prize signings last year.
1.Brandon Graham 1.Charles Brown 2. Syd Thompson 3.Torell Troup 4.Andrew Quarless 5.John Jerry 6.Mike Kafka 7.Quinton Andrews 7.Preston Parker
Can You Spell Out
Why or just keep on going with the rants?
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 6, 2010 10:39 PM PST up reply actions
So we should bring back Nolan then?
You can’t have it both ways.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 9, 2010 6:04 PM PST up reply actions
Oops
I meant:
It goes both ways.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 9, 2010 6:04 PM PST up reply actions
patrick willis
12 year, 110 million dollar contract with $50 million guaranteed
DREAM DRAFT:
1a. Anthony Davis, OT, Rutgers
1b. CJ Spiller, RB, Clemson
2. Best CB available
3. Freddie Barnes, WR, Bowling Green
by MichaelClutchtree on Mar 6, 2010 8:12 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Holy * move over Albert Haynesworth lol.
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Mar 6, 2010 8:46 PM PST up reply actions
I'm down
Pay the man.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 9, 2010 6:04 PM PST up reply actions
Wait...What?
“Yet in this system David Carr’s intangebles are better than Shaun Hill’s, it is that simple.” Wait…What? Um, you cant measure intangebles. Did you mean tangibles? if you did mean intangebles, I don’t know much about David Carr other than he got lit up for four years and he hasn’t done much, but I do know intangebles is about all Shaun Hill has, so I find it hard to beleive Carr has more, his teammates must love him.
I May Have That Reversed
Yet how many times was David Carr sacked in his career in Houston? How many sacks per game? It is not like Carr had a chance in Houston!!! Carolina is a different story and at that point it became evident he is nothing more than a back up in the NFL. What are we signing him for, if we do? 3 million over 2 seasons!. All things equal, ignoring the fact that Carr was a #1 pick and Hill went undrafted, lets look at who is a better QB. It is David Carr, plain and simple. Now if you want to argue toughness, team unity, and pure grit, i will agree with you; but Carr like Hill is going to be our back up and the ladder just isn’t as good.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 6, 2010 9:30 PM PST up reply actions
I'll say this about the sacks...
It was 249 in 76 games (3.28 a game). Seasons of 76, 15, 49, 68 and 41. Now there’s a number there..15 that’s really low (49 and 41 are similar to what Aaron Rodgers and Big Ben saw this year). You can put QB sacks on the line, but there’s no way of knowing how long Carr held onto the ball.
Personally, I think Carr’s fine at the job they want him for: Holding the clipboard.
but there’s no way of knowing how long Carr held onto the ball.
Umm…By watching the games?
I saw the Texans in 2002.
Worst OL since the one in Philly a long time ago.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 9, 2010 6:06 PM PST up reply actions
I Agree Look At The Sacks Hill Took Compared To Smith
Smith passed the ball and Hill didn’t. Look at the tapes with Carr at Houston, the dude had no chance, not even 3 seconds to pass, maybe 2.1. The point is that Carr is not a starting QB in the NFL but he could be a very good back up
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 6, 2010 10:26 PM PST reply actions
AND
it isn’t like we are signing him to compete with Alex Smith, in fact he would be making less than Hill
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 6, 2010 10:27 PM PST up reply actions
Carr is better than Hill.
I’m with you here, I think Carr is the better move. If Smith goes down, our offense completely changes to fit Hill’s arm. If Smith goes down and we have Carr, we won’t miss a beat. Well at least we will run the same offense. lol
he's already a good backup
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 9, 2010 6:06 PM PST up reply actions
good article
but me honestly i don’t feel dashon has not put in enough work 2 be making comments on twitter about the rolle signing yea the upside looks good i can see that but when did playerst start feeling like they can start looking 4 a fat check off of one break out year and even on that tip he still has 2 show that he can get better in coverage but as 4 willis he is the most solid one who deserves an exention as soon as possibleas 4 franklin if he can put up another year like last i would give him a 3to4 yr contract but dashon has 2 put up another year and top last season .
I Agree But I Dont
Davis has his contract coming to terms first, so he must be 1st priority. In regards to Goldson, i understand that. Antrel Rolle just got a 36MD payday and Goldson is better than him. Just think about it as being a player in the corporate ladder. Your better than the dude making 20X more than you. Would you not be upset?
Especially with the ability to twitter dunk LOL
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 6, 2010 10:32 PM PST up reply actions
Take off the rose colored glasses when talking about the SF front office
puhlease..
since last season we have seen idiotically painful moves that DO NOT give us the blind optimism that this post suggests us to have..
from the blustery non moves at RT to many moves that didnt work at the position..
to the slow signing of crabtree..
to the wasted money signing of brandon jones..
to the what were you thinking of releasing of a. rossum…
NOW we are sitting on the fence at a time when we should be working the phones moving to get some proven help for our time.
I agree we need to extend our young guys but that is a false argument to say we should be sitting around doing nothing else this offseason with so many (sigh again) pressing needs..
Brandon Jones was not a waste. He was the best WR in the preseason and got hurt and they just didn't use him after that.
He has talent!
The RT problem can probably be moved over to the OL Coach more than the RT / RG/ LG themselves. Now that the 49ers have Solari and Brown the OL should become a better unit.
Also, paying too much for a FA RT hurts the team and what we as fans didn’t see was any involvement by the FO for a good RT but that doesn’t mean they didn’t try to sign one.
Also, no one that I know of has any knowledge as to why they decided to not use Rossum.. They probably had some very good reasons for not playing him and for releasing him.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
You Are 100 Percent Wrong
well with the exception of Rossum
What RT’s would you have paid RT money to in last seasons free agent class"
Oher over Crabtree? Maybe, but didn’t the Raven fall to the mid 20’s when we picked up a top 5 player, this at a need position?
The 49ers had major support in terms of the Crabtree hold out, and they deserved it. How can one’ expect to be paid top 5 money when he was the 10th pick? It was bad agenting skills, AND YES IT IS THAT SIMPLE.
Sitting on the fence in a mediocre FA class without a cap while other are spending like the cap is all done with?
Do you understand the NFL? Or are we believing that Sabean or Beane are the owners of the 49ers?
GIVE ME A BREAK BRO
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 6, 2010 10:38 PM PST reply actions
if you want to be a mccoughlan groupie go right ahead..but don't expect everyone to agree with your subjective assessment
but to blindly give your allegiance to the front office when THEIR moves or lack of them MAY HAVE COST the team a shot at the playoffs…
As is in cutting your only kr/pr midway through the season without a reliable backup? Uh maybe YOU don’t understand the NFL? That’s as bonehead as it gets..and you’re implying everyone should smile and say maybe next year?
The only BREAK i’m giving you is the reason You give for the crabtree impasse ….overpaying. OK i don’t condone throwing away boatloads of cash..but on the other hand why should we as fans be sooooo concerned about the Niners gasp God forbid spending some money to bring in some talent…
Which of the FA in this class would be an improvement to our team?
Name one of them—you can’t do it.
Kyle Vanden Bosch (DE). We have Justin Smith at RDE, Franklin in the middle and a rotation of Sopoaga and McDonald at LDE that does wonders.
Karlos Dansby (LB). Thanks, but no thanks. He’s had a couple of decent years but he’s not really an upgrade over Spikes.
Dunta Robinson (CB) It’d be nice to have him but he hasn’t had that great a year and we’re already paying big money to one CB.
Rolle? give me a break
Rhodes? See Rolle
Burleson? When we have a bunch of young WRs why pay big money for an old one?
Chester Taylor? We have Frank Gore.
There’s been a bunch of no-name backup O-linemen signed but we already have those.
So really, among those who have been signed so far who would be an upgrade for what we have already?
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
So youre
saying its up to us fans to scour every nfl roster and do mccoughlan’s job…?
youre saying in the last 3 years there hasn’t been an improvement at guard, tackle available in free agency, draft, or GASP a trade?
Ya think a trade for sproles may have been possible with SD obvious indecision?
So Calling Me A Groupie Works?
Did you read the start of my post? or just scroll down?
The ignorance upon which you stand is epic
Sorry NN Nation for this, but i had to do it
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 6, 2010 10:59 PM PST up reply actions
It is Nocal And I Am A Regulard
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 6, 2010 11:03 PM PST up reply actions
Name Call?
I could post worse!!!
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 6, 2010 11:05 PM PST up reply actions
as I recall you are the one that started the name calling
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
also Vaden Bosch is too small for a 3-4 DE
Peppers was way too expensive to experiment him at OLB
Go 49ers
San Diego tendered Sproles at a 1st and a 3rd
Do you think giving up a 1st round pick is worth it for Sproles? I sure don’t.
You’re the one saying that McC and the front office sucks. Prove it. Tell me which of the free agents that have been signed so far would have improved the team. If you can’t do that then shut up.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
Hey
NN this dude might be on something? Have you noticed that?
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 6, 2010 11:04 PM PST up reply actions
you're missing the point
i never said the front office sucks. they definitely have had some major ups and downs. I just want them to be consistently good..
im not going to go through my team under the bus..but even you can agree they’ve made some questionable signings and lack of attention for serious needs the last year.
AND
If you read the start of this thread we could have avoided this confrontation
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 6, 2010 11:09 PM PST up reply actions
fair enough
im man enough to admit i was pissed at your post to NOT read your last paragraph..
if they make 0 moves in FA will you be happy though?
Why not?
If they fail to re-sign Willis, VD, Brooks, Goldson and possibly even Smith in the future.
Then I’ll be pissed.
Our young players are more talented than these washed up/overpaid veterans
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 9, 2010 6:12 PM PST up reply actions
but to blindly give your allegiance to the front office when THEIR moves or lack of them MAY HAVE COST the team a shot at the playoffs…
Certainly sounds to me like you’re saying they suck
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
He's quoting you.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 9, 2010 6:13 PM PST up reply actions
No front office is consistently good
Everyone makes mistakes.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 9, 2010 6:11 PM PST up reply actions
Please don't tell people to shut up
That doesn’t help matters.
by David Fucillo on Mar 7, 2010 6:58 AM PST up reply actions
I agree...
If there was a RT or OL UFA available even a RF with reasonable compensations, I am sure the front office would have made a move… but everyone seems to be looking for ridiculous compensations see (Willie Colon (PIT), Mankins (NE), Brown and Evans (NO)) and if you question not going after Sproles with a 1st and 3rd round tender, there is a reason why everyone cannot be GMs in the NFL.
Joe and Steve were under the same system for years... don't expect Smith to be super so soon.
What are you sniffing.....?
Do you consider Anquan Boldon a waste at receiver? It only cost a mere 4th rd’er this yr and a 7th next. How about Atogwe? The team he’s currently on only has right to first refusal. You say getting Van Den Bosch isn’t a good idea? He has experience on the other side. VDB on the left, Smiley on the right, hmmmmmm…..
You say no to Chester Taylor because we have Gore? Move Coffee down a spot. I mean…all Taylor did last yr was back up some “mediocre” back named Peterson. And he did it admirably. Thus the name….BACKUP. As far as the post is concerned….I’ll sum it up this way. I am in total agreement that you don’t break the bank for a couple busted guys. But, at least throw your hat in the ring to cover a couple spots that need filling. Therreby giving yourself a better angle on what you need in the draft. Like you say….build through the draft….but…suppliment through free agency.
K.C.Edwards -AKA- "THE" DarkkStarr
Start Over Bro, NO DISRESPECT
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 6, 2010 11:12 PM PST reply actions
I Like NN
so i am going to refrain from responding.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 6, 2010 11:18 PM PST up reply actions
Seems like only 49ers fans..
are high on 3 tier to mid tier talent, outside of the obvious home run players.
Well, we're waiting....
Just had to
say hey to my bro drummer, it’s been a minute LOL…
3rd tied talent?
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 6, 2010 11:22 PM PST up reply actions
Well..
if you really look at it, there is no one real FA that will take this team over the top, because there are a whole lot of needs in areas that haven’t really panned out, and a lot of those are at the skill position level, and the real positive is how the defensive scheme helps with substitution, platooning, etc. But the pass defense and the pass offense tell us where real weaknesses lie, and a true stud pass rusher would help on pass defense (to help mask the defensive backfield), and really good quarterback play would open up things on offense. But the talent level isn’t quite there, and the funny thing to thing about is how much a lot of the players on the roster now would fare in this year’s open market. The only players in my mind right now, due to age and ability that would be in demand is Willis and Davis IMO. Franklin? Well, I think it has more to do with a lot of things on defense, like say how Stubbefield benefited from Bryant Young being double teamed his contract year.
But I get where you’re coming from. The 49ers options on FA aren’t very sexy outside of Atogwe and Gaithers, but maybe they can address that in the draft, and there really is no need to panic outside of true QB depth. But I still have to hold the FO to a higher standard, like say at least putting pizza out for the beat reporters who had to wait for nothing during today’s presser on Carr. Then can show a little less frugality there. ;)
Well, we're waiting....
by drummer on Mar 6, 2010 11:39 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Yeah but keep in mind that FA
is only 48 hrs old. It’s not like it’s the end of free agency. Teams have until April 15th to make a move on RFAs. UFAs can be signed at any time.
This isn’t the Oklahoma Land Grab here.
Yes Drew K, Tim Tebow will probably get picked in the first round.
They should have provided the pizza...
for the Niners Nation bloggers who were patiently waiting for the David Carr press conference and ended up putting together a 500+ comment thread on it. Reward loyalty!
by Rabbit T on Mar 8, 2010 11:17 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
+1 for being realistic
I have not seen any free agent signings by other teams that I thought would help the Niners. There just isnt a lot available or what is available is only available because it’s not exactly top quality (ie damaged, headcases, mediocre talent…) or the pricetag is too high and the Niners have free agents of their own that need to get paid. Patrick Willis aint goin nowherez! We are gonna build a better team and he is going to be an integral part of the defense. He may get overpaid a bit, but he has been a Probowler every year in the LEAGUE? He is special, so he gets paid. The others mentioned are gonna have opportunities to remain with the Niners, but if they get too greedy, they will have to go play for a bad team and use the xtra cash they get as a solace for loosing every Sunday. Most of the really good teams do no overpay for talent and do NOT pay for mediocrity. Willis is talent+ so he will get paid.
There have not been any stand out Offensive Linemen that are worth paying the free agent money their agents are looking for. That is partially why this free agent market is different than the ones in the past. Teams are looking to lock down the talent they have. Players that ARE available are usually mediocre and are looking for some team to overpay them just to fill a need. I am glad that McC hasn’t gotten in a bidding war for a mediocre talent for an O-Lineman. OL’s are usually highly regarded by teams and if they are good they are retained. So those that are available normally have some flaw or wart that keeps the team they are on from offering a large extension or outbid themselves to sign them. The rules in this “Uncapped” year are very restrictive to player movement as I understand them. Teams are reluctant to part with 1st round draft picks just to get the opportunity to sign free agents. Fans are very negative about loosing 1st round draft picks and always use hindsight to blast FO people for not seeing how great the players are that they pass on to get the player they got. The more mediocre the draft pick, the louder the commotion about how the FO could have done a better job. Even though the draft is a crap shoot, fans expect the team to roll 7’s every time. I personally think that McC has done a decent job of the draft. Willis and Crabtree are good and Balmer/Lawsen? are mediocre to bad. The draft is not an exact science, but good teams seem to do very well in the draft no matter where they draft or what their needs. So it is more like poker than craps. You need skill AND luck to be successful in the draft.
If there are no offensive linemen worth pursuing in free agency, then we have to turn our attention to the draft. I believe the Niners need to consider using their 13th pick on the Best OL available. If there is another quality OL available at 17 then they should pick him too for depth. Skill positions or PR/KR’s can be found on day 2 of the draft if need be. But whether it is in free agency to pick up some depth at OL, or it’s in the draft to nab a top rookie prospect OL, the Niners M U S T address the OL that they have largely ignored for so many years. Joe Staley was the last 1st round lineman drafted (28th in ‘07) and he was a pretty good pick. But 28th is the bottom of the 1st round. Surely the Niners can use their 13th and/or 17th this year to get “Their Guy” to fill the holes they have in the Offensive Line. Our Offense ranked 28th out of 32 last year. Much of that can be blamed on our offensive line’s inability to pass protect or open holes for the running game. So the FO will be looking to upgrade the OL whatever it takes.
If there are FA offensive linemen that are decent to good, the Niners will have interest. The draft has quite a few offensive linemen that interest the Niners, and at 13 there will be a good lineman available. Also lets not forget the possibility of picking up an OL on day 2 or 3 that can be groomed on the practice squad to become a good NFL caliber O-lineman. We are mostly set on skill players (except PR/KR) and hopefully the Niners are done taking BPA risks like Crabtree that while successful left us with a hole in our OL. More importance needs to be placed this year on Linemen, and I think the Niner’s FO knows this. If at least ONE of the 1st round picks isn’t a O-Lineman, I will consider the draft a failure unless they address the need via free agency or trade. Does anyone see the Niners totally blowing off the desperate need for an Offensive Lineman THIS YEAR? If they do, and they dont make the playoffs again because of the poor play of the offense again, then you are going to see some turnover in the FO. This is their year to make this team a contender and to build off of the 8-8 season.
I could see the Niners taking CJ Spiller with #13, and then using #17 on the best lineman available because the difference between 13 and 17 wont be much with regard to O-Linemen available. Spiller fills so many other needs that he would be a real benefit to our offense and special teams. Spiller first and foremost is a world class PR/KR. His speed is off the charts, and he would help win some of the field position battles we lost last year. He has home run ability every time he touches the ball. He has another gear that he can use to pull away from defenses that is rare. His 4.3 speed would make him the fastest guy on the team. Then you factor in his ability to be a 3rd down type change of pace back that can reach the edge and gain yards and he becomes a double threat. THEN you factor in his ability to line up in the slot or as WR with world class speed and GREAT hands as a receiver and he stretches the defense in a way no other player on the Niners can and you have a player who could have the impact of a Russel Westbrook for your offense. Problem is that Seattle is choosing 14th, and will most likely take Spiller there if we dont at 13. So I say take the speed dealer, and wait till #17 to get the OL help. That is only 4 spots, and I think you get about the same quality at 17 as you do 13 in OL help. All the top 10 OL talent will be gone by 13 anyway (and if not you nab any top 10 O-Linemen that drops out of the top 10 no brainer). So really Spiller would be the luxury pick for having two 1st round picks! And Spiller would probably have the most impact of ANY offensive player taken in the top 15 just because of his size, speed, and versatility. The other great thought about taking Spiller at 13 is you avoid Seattle from getting him at 14. They have desperate needs to fill at #6 (OL and possibly QB), so if they can get Spiller, it has to be with their #14. How great would it be to not only get Spiller, but to prevent the SeaHags from getting him at 14?? A Double Kill! But no matter how the offseason pans out, the Niners must enter summer camp with a plan at Offensive Line improvement using free agents or draft picks. All other areas of need take a back seat to Improving the Offensive Line. No matter who the QB is behind center, he needs time to execute the offense. The Coaching Staff/Front Office know this, so I expect to see the Niners coming into summer camp with solutions to our Offensive Line and plans to improve our ranking offensively from 28th to something much more respectable!
Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!
Why I can't support McC
http://www.ninersnation.com/2009/12/27/1221047/gm-mccloughan-or-nolan
1.Brandon Graham 1.Charles Brown 2. Syd Thompson 3.Torell Troup 4.Andrew Quarless 5.John Jerry 6.Mike Kafka 7.Quinton Andrews 7.Preston Parker
what i want to know is..
will this be yet another year that major needs go unheeded?
I think that smileyman makes a good point to be patient, but its really hard when for example an obvious longterm tackle need, we waited a whole offseason last year to get to the….gasp marvel smith debacle at the very end.
That’s why I agree with supraman that mccoughlan leaves much to be desired at this point, on his own with this decision making.
Tackles don't grow on trees...
But, you have to ask yourself, even after a holdout truncated season, the pick of Crabtree over Oher….
Ask yourself.
Well, we're waiting....
I asked myself and yep I still don't like it. However it has happened and is in the past, the big question is
Is without any FA additions can this team field a WINNAR?
Still thinking we should trade up for Berry!!
But there have been additions
And there probably will be in the future.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 9, 2010 6:16 PM PST up reply actions
Who? David Carr? Nah
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Trade for Bushrod damnit its not like it costs a 1st rounder only a 2nd round pick.
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Mar 7, 2010 8:50 AM PST up reply actions
I think both.
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Mar 7, 2010 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
The question is: Is he a better LT than Staley?
I really didn’t like what Staley showed me this past year. BUT. Can he play up to expectations at LT or should they move him to RT?
Also, On the other side, If they feel Staley can be a good LT, especially with Solari as the OL Coach, then Bushrod may be a overspend.. if he can’t play a really good RT.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Question is also can Staley play RT? I think he is an average tackle.
Still thinking we should trade up for Berry!!
I have my fingers and toes crossed that Solari can help Staley
I think what will happen is LT and RG will remain as Staley and Rachal.
LG and RT will be address mostly through the draft but also with Solari and Brown working with Boone, Chris Patrick and De La Puente to see who can step up as backups for the G and OT positions.
In my opinion hiring Solari was the best Off season move.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
I was thinking Bushrod for RT
49ers Al Grito De Guerra!!! hahaha
by 49erSalvatrucha on Mar 7, 2010 5:42 PM PST up reply actions
No chance
He was the Saints worst staring OL.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 9, 2010 6:18 PM PST up reply actions
He played LT for the Saints
But he was pretty terrible (allowed 7.5 of 20 total sacks)
His feet aren’t very quick and I feel he is better suited to play RT (OMG)
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 9, 2010 6:17 PM PST up reply actions
Remember last year?
A pass rusher was our No.1 need.
I wonder how badly we need a pass rusher now?
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 9, 2010 6:16 PM PST up reply actions
Free agents
Why aren’t we going after Atoge (CB STL), Bodden (S NE) or Sensabaugh (S Dallas)? We need help in the backfield, need to possibly replace Lewis and we know our CB’s aren’t great. I think Bodden may be too expensive (rumored to $5 million/yr), but the other two might be worth considering. If we get a good safety through free agency, we could use our two 1st round picks for OL and a RB like C.J. Spiller. Thoughts?
Free agency has just just started
It opened at 12 AM 3/5 and it’s 2:20 PM 3/7 this will go on till just before the draft and a bit after even. Remember the motto “Fools rush in” and remember that the smarter teams for a number of years have been noted as not jumping into the fray at the start of FA but waiting around to find the real value. I understand we all are getting antsy and trust me I at times echo your feelings, but the patient teams will be the ones getting real value and not going out on a limb. That being said I imagine that a call or two has been made.
Balanced draft with offensive emphasis. Pick 13 CJ Spiller 17 to Chargers 28 DI/DET Jared Odrick 48 WR Demaryius Thomas 60 S Reshad Jones
79 Jared Valdheer 110 OG Marshall Newhouse 141 CB Akwasi Owusu Ansah 172 OLB O'Brien Schoffield 208 FB Manase Tonga (He and Britt Miller can swap off and one play blocking TE and one FB)
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Mar 7, 2010 11:23 AM PST up reply actions
Scot will take the blame for everything eventually
It is just a matter of time before the other foot falls…
"Proving 2nd class ownership is profitable"
I love your optimism
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 9, 2010 6:19 PM PST up reply actions
Mc Boo Foo is on the hot seat
As everyone knows-I have been calling for this guy’s head for the last 2 years.
He has CONSISTENTLY ignored the need on the Oline and still lacks a pass rusher with more than 6 sacks. This type of moronic behavior is the main reason why the team missed the playoffs this year.
Additionally, the draft picks the team has taken have been less than stellar. Here are the first 4 rounds of the draft for the last four years. Great GM’s get about 4 starters a year out of the draft.
2009 Crabtree, Coffee
2008 Balmer, Rachel, Reggie Smith, Cody Wallace
2007 Willis, Staley, Jason Hill, Ray McDonald, Jay Moore
2006 Vernon Davis, Manny Lawson, Brandon Williams
As you can see we currently have 6 starters and Moore who plays 3rd down. This is not sufficient to keep things moving in the right direction.
Here are a few other questionable moves:
Baas was a 2nd round pick 5 years ago who is another 1 that hasn’t fulfilled his potential.
Coffee was a 3rd round pick last year and is so good they are talking about drafting another RB with an early round pick.
WHAT IS GOING ON HERE??
Mc Boo Foo needs to get his act together or head out the door. He has NO EXCUSE to not address the MAJOR needs of Oline, Corner, Pass Rusher, Safety, and punt returner in this draft. Its time he starts hitting on more than 2 picks a year on average.
Let Me Make This Clear
I am not condoning the mistakes of the past, that would be completely foolhardy.
2009: You really cannot judge this draft because we gave up 2nd and 4th round picks for a 1st round this season. Why didn’t you mention mid round picks Nate Davis or Scott Mckillop in regards to this draft? You have to understand that just because a player isn’t starting in his rookie season, it doesn’t mean he will not eventually become a starter. The Crabtree pick was an obvious no-brainer and will work out, that goes without saying.
2008: The pick of Kentwan Balmer was an absolute disaster, i mean we selected that “bust” ahead of Eddie Royal and Desean Jackson. But you also have to look at picks 20-47 at position of needs. Many players including Trevor Laws, Sam Baker, Lawrence Jackson and Phillip Merling failed to live up to expectations as well. The Jury is still out on Chilo Rachal and Reggie Smith; this of course in my opinion.
2007: Well it is obvious that was a great draft. I really don’t even need to add anything but the name Patrick Willis to make my point .
2006: Both Vernon Davis and Manny Lawson started living up to the bill this last season, with the former making his 1st pro bowl selection; that was also a pretty good draft.
Listen, i completely understand your frustration, i have it too. I even stated my frustration in the opening of this thread; the point i am attempting to make is that the 49ers are taking the right approach this off-season, i am not supporting their decisions in previous seasons.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 8, 2010 9:41 PM PST up reply actions
Can one pick make a draft great? No way in hell.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Tom Brady for the Patriots.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 10, 2010 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
Brady went to a great system
Bledsoe was putting up pretty good numbers for the Pats before he got hurt and then Brady came in without a hitch. When Brady went down Cassel came in without a hitch.
Member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010
Not even close
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
?
The rest of the Pats draft was mediocre.
Tom Brady alone made that draft great for the Patriots.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by SportsChicken on Mar 11, 2010 10:01 PM PST up reply actions
If
that pick has a chance to be the greatest LB to ever play, it can make a draft great. Other than that we got Joe Staley too
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Mar 9, 2010 9:17 PM PST reply actions
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