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by smileyman on May 20, 2010 11:30 AM PDT
in San Francisco 49ers News
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Contract talk seems to be the news this week.
We all know about Manny Lawson's refusal to participate in OTA's due to his contract situation.
Chris Johnson (aka CJ2K) is also holding out. He's still playing on his rookie contract and is worth far more than the paltry $550,000 he's owed by the Titans for the 2010 season. The Titan's GM is using the 30% rule as an excuse to not pay CJ, but as we saw with Willis a creative and determined team can get a new deal done.
Given the circumstances, I don't think there's the likelihood anything is going to happen,'' Reinfeldt said. "You're asking me definitely if he's not going to get (a new contract). I'm not making any definitive statements. I just think he's a pro and we expect him to honor his contract.
If you want to support Chris Johnson you can sign an internet petition started by some fan. PayCJ2K currently has 1,289 signatures.
There's another Johnson wanting a bigger pay day and that's Houston wide receiver Andre Johnson. Johnson sat out the first couple of OTA's due to contract issues, but showed up back to work after a meeting with the owners. but his situation is different than CJ2K's. Johnson had his original deal redone once already, and is now asking for more money on top of that.
In 2007 Johnson was signed to a six-year extension worth $60 million, with $15 million guaranteed. When Fitzgerald signed his new deal (4 years $40 million, $20 million guaranteed) and Brandon Marshall's (4 years, $47.5 million with $24 million guaranteed), he started seeing dollar signs. He's back now and sounds contrite, but we'll see what happens if he doesn't get a new deal.
"Me not showing up is out of my character and that's why I'm here. I just hope things will work out," Johnson told KRIV.
"I feel like the team understands my situation and I know theirs and we can meet at a certain point and get it done and have a successful season," he told KRIV.
Santana Moss was apparently provided HGH by Dr Anthony Galea, the same guy who gave HGH to a bunch of other athletes and is being charged in Canadian court for smuggling, amongst other things. Moss (according to The Washington Post) had scheduled a private meeting with Galea. Moss deserves mad props for his version of "Dre's gonna be Dre".
"I ain't got nothing to do with nothing that ain't about me."
IMO this is good news for Terrell Owens, as it makes his acquisition by the Redskins more likely. He's already got McNabb pimping for him. If Moss ends up being suspended by the league that takes away their #1 WR. Antwan Randel El was the #2 guy and he's with the Steelers now. They need help.
Brian Westbrook met with the Redskins--that's the third team to show interest (he first met with the Rams, the Broncos want him and the Redskins have now shown interest). If he signs with the 'Skins that will reprise the three-headed monster of Philly's SuperBowl run and should dramatically improve their play-off chances this year
Daunte Culpepper is set to sign with the UFL's Sacramento Mountain Lions. I thought that he did a reasonable job filling in for the Lions last year, it's too bad he can't find work in the NFL.
J.P. Losman would tell Culpepper not to worry too much about playing in the UFL. After a successful year in the UFL (where he led the Las Vegas Locomotives to a league championship), the Seahawks signed him to a one year deal worth $630,000. He'll be the 3rd string spot behind Hasselbeck and Whitehurst.
B.J. Raji just got a promotion. He'll apparently be the starting NT this season and the Packers will be moving Picket to LDE. It'll be interesting to see if Raji is worth his first round draft stats.
Donovan McNabb wants to end his career in Washington. Not exactly a shocker since he doesn't have that many playing days left, but it does speak to a desire to have a 4 or 5 year extension done.
Mardy Gilyard was robbed at gunpoint this week, but he's still the same cat. Thieves got away with $90 cash and a $500 necklace. They should've waited until after he signed his rookie contract.
"I'm the same cat," Gilyard told National Football Post. "I'm not shook up or nothing like that, just mad. I'm just glad I get to go to training camp. I had that thing pointed at my head. I could have been paralyzed or brain dead or killed. I'm truly blessed to still be here talking to you."
Kris Jenkins reportedly is a whopping 390 lbs. You want your NTs to be big, but that's just too big. Rex Ryan has challenged Jenkins and Damien Woody to a contest to see who can lose the most weight. Ryan stacked the odds in his favor with a lap band procedure. I wonder if they're doing this based on total pounds shed or by body fat percentage.
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think you mispelled
Brian Westbrook and Daunte Culpepper
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
Let's talk on Twitter
thus rendering them tagless!
noooo!!!!!
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
Let's talk on Twitter
Is the team really the UFL's Sacramento Mountail Lions or is it Mountain Lions?
I normally wouldn’t say anything but it looks like Tre9er was having so much fun I wanted to join in. ;-)
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Yeah
It’s one thing when you bust an athlete—he’s not going to give up many names. When you bust a doctor and his assistant, suddenly you have access to a whole bunch of documents that could implicate a great many people.
I was right, you were wrong.
it's amazing how professional athletes get paid more then preschool teachers...
Yet I would say the preschool teachers are sure as heck more invaluable….I guess when the economy further collapses and nobody can pay to see pro teams play then there might be equality…
It's all teachers
I live in Idaho and they just announced another cut in teacher pay. My next door neighbor is a teacher and a coach and he’s thinking that he might have to move because they can’t afford to live here anymore (and it’s not like Idaho is an expensive place to live).
I was right, you were wrong.
I think Mike Iupati should bail them out
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
Let's talk on Twitter
That's what I was thinking...
About Idaho not being expensive anyway, what options does he think he might have?
I think he's considering the move to Wyoming
they’ve got lots of money to spend because of the oil fields.
I was right, you were wrong.
It's called supply and demand
A lot of people are able to teach preschool but not that many people are talented enought to play in the NFL. It’s the same reason heart surgeons get paid more, because not that many people trained or skilled enought to do the job. I agree that teachers are underpaid, after all my wife is an elementary school principal, but at the same time I understand the reason for the low pay.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
I wonder if the Titans' owners are pissed about Willis's new deal
because I think he would have given in knowing that the money he could have now would not be as good as the deal he could get next year. But then Willis got a new deal and probably ruined that for them. To which, it makes me happy. I really think Chris Johnson got too much love for the 2000 yard season when it should be his line that should be getting the praise.
And I hope Westbrook finds a place soon. He’s one of those guys I’ve always liked because he gives it his all and does whatever they ask him to (and pretty good at everything on top of that) even though they said he was too small to make it in the NFL. I would like to have him on the 49ers even though there is not much need for him. But he can still be a great third down back!
by ZeroOneInfinity on May 20, 2010 12:52 PM PDT reply actions
CJ
deserves every bit of credit he got. Yeah he had a pretty good line but not good enough to give him all those yards. He did most of that on his own. (The offensive line really only matters within 5 yards of the LOS)
I was right, you were wrong.
haha
And those five yards are not important?
by ZeroOneInfinity on May 20, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
they are
but he broke a ton of big runs last year (22 runs over 20 yards, leading NFL). Next closest guy was Peterson with 12!
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
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and on breaking the runs, how many guys did he have to get hit by. I saw gore break a run last year and didnt get touched until he was well downfield..Thats all to do with your line(and picking the right spot to move through the line)
Judgment day is coming!
he was ridiculous after contact
a lot of his big runs were 5-yarders turned into 60 yarders.
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
Let's talk on Twitter
I'm not saying Chris Johnson is not good
The guy has ridiculous speed and moves to go with that speed. Just that his line should get a chunk of the credit as well. It’s like Priest Holmes. He always gave credit to his O-line because really, he was not that special of a RB. He had great balance and knew how to read holes. And as great as I think he was, he would not have been as good without that O-line. Then comes Larry Johnson behind that same line and gets two 1700+ yard seasons. Once three of those starters retired or were cut, he sucked behind that line.
by ZeroOneInfinity on May 20, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't see anyone not giving their line credit
but they’re not stuck on rookie deals like he is.
I was right, you were wrong.
First 5 ..wish i could say that all that’s mattered for Gore last year. Most of the time those first 5 are the most important on any run play because how everyone’s working together to create those gaps. I am not gonna only give 5% of credit to the line, without them providing the great blocks they did, he goes no where
Judgment day is coming!
way more than 5% for sure
CJ wouldn’t have rushed for 2000 yards behind Buffalo’s line last year. But he is special.
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
Let's talk on Twitter
there are more than 4 guys playing defense you know
even if the line perfectly blocks the defensive linemen a running back still has to pick up those extra yards.
To illustrate the difference that he made.
in 2007 the Titans had a total of 1,572 yards rushing, most of it behind LenDale White.
In 2008 that bumped up to 20001
In 2009 it was 2228
So in just two years CJ has added 700 yards rushing to the team. The offensive line was basically the same, with the exception of the guards.
I think CJ deserves every bit of praise he gets for that rushing total.
I was right, you were wrong.
And Vince Young
Once Young became the QB after their bye week, Johnson ran for 100+ yards in each game.
by ZeroOneInfinity on May 20, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
plus he was deadly in the passing game
and most of those yards were all him
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
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Yes
Without Vince Young in 2008. He also had 107 more carries in 2009 while White went down 136 carries.
by ZeroOneInfinity on May 20, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
So the overall carries for the team decreased
but the yardage went up.
What does that tell you?
I was right, you were wrong.
O-line blocking better, rushing back got smarter, and not knowing what teams they played between the two 2 years, possibly playing teams with worse rush defense? See its not just about the running back, it’s also guys knowing each other better, playing smarter. Look at smith last year. Better O-Line protection gave him more time then years past. I am not discrediting him at all but also giving credit where more credit is due.
Judgment day is coming!
DUDE read the whole post: I am not discrediting him at all but also giving credit where more credit is due.
Judgment day is coming!
You've done nothing but discredit him here
you’ve implied that Chris Johnson is nothing special and that all the credit goes to his line.
I’ve never said that his line wasn’t good, but Chris Johnson is undeniably one of the top RBs in the NFL today and he’s getting paid chump change for what he’s doing.
I was right, you were wrong.
T.O.
I still don’t know if he’d be going to play in Washington if Moss is suspended. They have two young 2nd round picks waiting in the wings there and I think with McNabb playing at QB, he’ll help them to develop pretty quick. Sure, they could still be better with TO, but I don’t think Shanahan changes his mind.
Although, apparently the Sea-chickens have been in contact with him, so maybe Pete Carroll just wants to sign every FA WR that doesn’t have a job. I wouldn’t complain if he went there and Pat laid a hurting on him if he’s coming across the middle on a shallow route.
They have two young 2nd round picks waiting in the wings
This is exactly the problem. They really have no veteran presence at WR other than Moss.
I was right, you were wrong.
and you want T.O. as your "veteran presence"?
not me…
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
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Well they have McNabb
McNabb will keep T.O. in check.
by ZeroOneInfinity on May 20, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Because he did such a great job of that in Phily. If anything Shanahan will keep him in check.
I can't wait for Mango's sig to say "0 days to go".
Sorry
that was sarcasm. I should have made it more obvious.
by ZeroOneInfinity on May 20, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I think T.O would be great presence
His “divisive lockeroom presence” has been mostly blown all out of whack.
Besides, even if you think that he’s horrible for the lockeroom, he never made a peep in Buffalo and that was a situation in which nobody would’ve blamed him for speaking up.
I was right, you were wrong.
is he a mentor? a teacher?
someone who can get the other receivers where they need to be? I think of a veteran presence type of guy like Bruce, Mason, someone who provides leadership…not just someone who’s played the game for a while.
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
Let's talk on Twitter
I think T.O. knows he will be on a short leash with whatever team he signs with. If I were in the same position as the Redskins I would consider signing him to a one year deal like he had in Buffalo. With the one year contract under Shanahan he should keep his mouth shut and do his job just like he did last year.
I can't wait for Mango's sig to say "0 days to go".
yes
you don think miles austin learned a thing or 2 from TO who was taught by jerry
Can u c coach sing's vision? I do!......We all know PATRICK WILLIS is our future!
May 12 2010 comment of the day award winner on the nuggets! It's official ninjames is my favorite contributer!
No, I actually don't...
It’s a weird myth that persists among sports fans. The NFL is extremely competitive, and offers zero job security. Most guys aren’t going to be out there doing anything to coach up their potential replacements.
Here's my beef
If you want to support Chris Johnson…..
Guys sign these contracts knowing what they are getting into, and getting a five-year, $12 million contract with $7 million guaranteed. They are under these contract and should not be able to renege on the, just because they think they should earn more.
He is 2 years into his 5 year contract and he doesn’t wanna play until he gets more money..I know he is a game changer, i know about his speed, but maybe that should have been all brought up when they were signing that first contract, in terms of conditional monies. Maybe he should have taken that guaranteed money more spread out.
I feel no pity for guys who whine/sit out because they go above and beyond and expect the team to just hand them the keys to the bank. Just like Crabtree last year, holding out for what he thinks he’s worth. If you play well, and the team see’s it, they are gonna show it with early extensions, alterations of contracts and that kind of stuff.
Look at Willis (Selected 11th), five-year- $16.7 million contract. Did you see him saying he was gonna sit out if we didn’t give him more cash even though he is the overall best linebacker in the NFL. No but look what we did for him for being a loyal, upstanding guy who isn’t pulling these stunts.
Now i know a lot of you probably don’t agree with me, I just had to get this off my chest because this is why, when I wanna go to a game, the minimum ticket price of $80 for anything decent.
Judgment day is coming!
You can't use Willis as an example
because the 49ers organization was willing to work with him. The Titans organization is not willing to work with Chris Johnson, so he has no other option.
I believe in paying people based on performance. In the regular job market you get a payraise based on your merit. In the professional sports market if you over perform your SOL unless you have a generous organization (not many of those), or raise a fuss.
I was right, you were wrong.
Or
players could take a shorter contract as a rookie, so that players can get their payday in the prime of their careers. And I don’t know how Willis cannot be a good example because the team saw a player they needed to lock up, so they did. If they do not want to work with Johnson, he should ask for a trade.
by ZeroOneInfinity on May 20, 2010 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
this
I’m an advocate of 3-year deals for rookies. That or lessening the guaranteed money and adding in somewhat reasonable incentives. CJ should have gotten a few million for every 1000 yards. That would have paid him handsomely for last year.
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
Let's talk on Twitter
They really can't
Owners won’t do less than a 4 year deal unless you’re a late round pick.
I was right, you were wrong.
Niners are willing to work with him because of the type of person he is, and because he doesn’t expect anything more then what he’s signed for. Sorry but you say pay based on performance, and that will come up on his next contract. He decided to sign this one when he was brought in the league. He could have had other things added to the contract before he signed it. This is what I don’t like about rookie long term contracts(There are things I like) is that then it becomes this game what JC is playing now. In the real job market you get a pay raise when the company says you get one, especially right now in this economy.
I believe the Titans are in the right on this because it is a signed contract, and maybe CJ should not have signed a 5 year contract then. You dont go to your boss and say you are owed a pay raise or else you are not gonna do your work.
Judgment day is coming!
unfortunately though
we’d lose our jobs if we did that…but it’d also be harder for us to find a new one. There’s always someone out there willing to pay these guys who play football. If there were a clause that prohibited teams from signing a player cut due to voilating terms of their contract (ie. not showing up for mandatory workouts, which CJ hasn’t missed any yet)…it would remove some leverage from the players in these situations.
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
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Or bigger penalties for missing workouts and holding out
It is an issue that the NFL should look at in the next CBA. And I agree that there will always be a job for a football player.
by ZeroOneInfinity on May 20, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
5 year contracts are standard for first round picks
I’ve never heard of a 4-year contract for a first round draft pick.
If you approve of the 49ers extending Willis I don’t know how you can sit there and say that Johnson doesn’t deserve an extension too.
I was right, you were wrong.
So basically you're saying
that he should be screwed over because RBs have short shelf lives. He signs a standard rookie deal, way outperforms it, wants to get higher pay because of his performance.
But you think that he should stick to that rookie deal because he signed a contract and that the owners are justified in not making it right by offering an extension?
Wow.
That’s the kind of organization that players would hate tp lay for. Why should CJ peform at all if it won’t matter in the end? If that’s the attitude from the owners why give it 100%?
I was right, you were wrong.
he should perform
because he likes to play football and likes to give it his all. I wouldn’t want a player on my team if I thought the only reason they were playing hard was for money. It’s a business…but it’s also a game.
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
Let's talk on Twitter
The business aspect goes both ways
if you’re out there laying your health on the line and doing a good job you should be rewarded accordingly.
I believe in rewarding good effort and good performance and in this case I think the Titans are dropping the ball.
Notice I’m not defending Andre Johnson because I think the Texans have already done right by him.
I was right, you were wrong.
you said
“Why should CJ perform at all…” pertaining to the money aspect. When he signed the first deal he decided it was enough to protect himself against any injury he might incur over the life of the contract.
At that point it became not about injury anymore. If he thought that the money was only enough to cover injury for a year or two, he shouldn’t have signed it.
At that point he should have been playing for the love of the game, and because it’s his job.
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
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But that's a double-standard that we ask of them
If a rookie holds out for a bigger contract we call them a diva and hate on them. If they sign a rookie contract but then want to renegotiate we call them selfish.
It’s really a no-win situation for them.
I was right, you were wrong.
what's a career ending injury worth?
in terms of can you survive? If I suffer a career ending injury (meaning I couldn’t work whatsoever), I had no signing bonus whatsoever. These guys can live on 20 million plus whatever salary they earn before they get injured.
They’re not trying to protect their ability to survive, they’re trying to protect an elite standard of living. That shouldn’t be guaranteed to anyone.
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
Let's talk on Twitter
plus they can get a job
most of them have college degrees or are close.
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
Let's talk on Twitter
It's called fair market value
Players should be paid based on what the market says is fair.
It’s a basic principle of economics.
I was right, you were wrong.
it's not fair
it’s speculative. at least when it’s up front bonus money we’re talking about.
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
Let's talk on Twitter
The league owners have determined that it's fair market
I’m talking about veteran pay here, not rookie pay.
Rookie pay is all about speculation.
I was right, you were wrong.
Ad the titans owner determined they already gave him 7 million so give him more
Judgment day is coming!
You really think that if CJ were to hit the open market
he couldn’t get a $50 million contract?
Really?
I was right, you were wrong.
Didnt say that but hes got 3 years left on his contract, that he signed he would in good faith, play to the best of his abilities for the money he signed for
Judgment day is coming!
this
is all I’m saying. I think he deserves more, but he shouldn’t hold out, not one day.
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
Let's talk on Twitter
Exactly my point..There are options, asking is one thing, not showing up to do your job is another
Judgment day is coming!
What options does he have that wouldn't alienate him?
Ask for a trade? Players that ask for a trade get ridiculed all the time.
Play poorly? We’ve already seen how that would go over in this thread.
Hold out of training camp? It’s OTAs he’s sitting out of, not training camp.
I was right, you were wrong.
I agree
I’m talking rookie pay. CJ got a rookie deal though…he had to know, as they all do, that there was a chance he didn’t get extended before it was over.
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
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But players negotiate in good faith
that an owner will reward them for exceptional play.
I was right, you were wrong.
INCENTIVES
gosh…you want to get paid, get a deal with incentives. period
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
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That's all good and fine
but that’s not very common with rookie deals. You should know that.
Mostly incentive laden contracts are used with veterans when a team isn’t sure about their performance.
It also doesn’t take into account the situation we’ve been talking about here.
I was right, you were wrong.
as I said
he would have earned plenty in additional yearly income if there were incentives. he could have signed a contract with a GREATER potential value than what he did and have incentives for 1,000 yards, pro-bowls, etc.
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
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And RB is a position of many injuries
I’m not going to say this is Johnson’s fault but more of something that needs to be addressed in the next CBA. Yes, owners do not sign first round picks to anything short of a four year deal. That does not mean it is the way it should be. If Johnson was on a three year deal, he’d have his deal already. At the same time, I think his situation is a bit harder than the Willis deal. I am not sure who is the highest paid RB in the league, so for Johnson to jump that much in salary, it may not even be possible through the creative way the 49ers took for Willis. If Johnson wants to be the highest paid RB, he may have to wait a season.
by ZeroOneInfinity on May 20, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Reggie Bush was the highest paid RB in 2009
just over $10 million per year
Brian Westbrook was #2 on the list with just over $8 million
Does Chris Johnson really want to be the highest paid RB in the league? Based on the numbers he was certainly the best, so maybe he does but maybe that’s a starting point to get a new deal done.
I was right, you were wrong.
Bush's deal was 6 years, $52.5 million
with $26 million guaranteed (spread out over 3 years)
Patrick Willis’ deal was 7 years $53.1 million with $29 million guaranteed.
I don’t know why the Titans can’t work out something similar with Chris Johnson
I was right, you were wrong.
Chris Johnson wants to be the highest paid RB in the NFL
Well, again, I don’t know all the details, but Willis was making more than Johnson on his rookie contract. So the 30% rule can only do so much. And a year out of Bush’s deal still makes him higher paid than Willis, so Johnson will be more expensive than Willis. It just seems like bad timing on Johnson’s part.
by ZeroOneInfinity on May 20, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
$250,000 difference in the two salaries
which is chump change when we’re talking millions of dollars.
I was right, you were wrong.
So Johnson paid $250,000 less than Willis
and he wants more money than Willis and the owners probably want no more than a six year deal, so the spreading of money can get tricky.
by ZeroOneInfinity on May 20, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
It's a starting point
I offer to sell you my car for $5,000 you say it’s not worth $500, and we go from there.
If the Titans were smart they’d lock him up now, because if he has another monster year next season he has even more leverage.
I was right, you were wrong.
Not necessarily
either way, he would still be paid more than the highest paid RB in the league. And since the only player can come close to going for the title of highest paid RB is AP, then I think the Titans’ FO is not in any real danger. This is more of a necessity on Johnson’s part because his numbers can easily go down from here as no one has ever had repeat 2000 yard seasons.
by ZeroOneInfinity on May 20, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
willis earned his
he proved he can play at that level in the NFL. When you take your first job you’re entry level for a reason…you haven’t proven crap. You don’t get paid for making the A honor roll in school, it just helps you maybe get the job.
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CJ hasn't earned his?
really? You’re going to sit there with a straight face and say that CJ hasn’t earned anything?
I was right, you were wrong.
i'm talkign about rookies
this side conversation had to do with rookie contracts
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
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Then why are you talking about Willis?
He wasn’t a rookie. Neither is CJ.
I was right, you were wrong.
because you talked about rookie contracts
and I skimmed it and thought you were comparing Willis extension to a rookie deal being 5-years too…my bad
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
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my point on willis
is that his extension is worth it whereas paying a 1st round pick that much (some get even more) is ludicrous
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
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Well sure
I completely agree. But when a player has proven his worth he needs to be rewarded. Personally I think that rookie contracts should be 3 years max, with the 3rd being voidable if certain conditions are met.
If that was the case with CJ he would be hitting FA and the team couldn’t blather on about keeping contracts but would have to pay him.
I was right, you were wrong.
that's what I said above
3-year rookie deals need to be made a rule in the CBA. Right now teams are financially obligated to stick with them because of the silly bonuses they pay on these 5-6 year deals. Find out if he’s for real in 3 years (or less) and have the option to extend or release without as much of a loss.
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
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Yeah
There also needs to be a definite cap.
I would make it so that a rookie deal could be worth no more than 5x a veteran salary (about $3 million), and that the signing bonus could not be worth more than the total yearly salary.
That would save owners a ton of money that they could then use to pay their veterans who have shown that they can play.
I was right, you were wrong.
give the rookies injury bonuses
as most of the signing bonus. Yearly bonuses like the supercedes that are paid in case of injury, but not paid if the player is released or violates the contract.
then they can’t cry about protecting themselves from injury.
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I like that idea
put the bonus money into roster bonuses and injury bonuses.
I was right, you were wrong.
supercedes could be the wave of the future
yearly bonuses, paid if you’re on the roster and/or haven’t violated contract. If you get injured, you get the yearly bonus anyways. If you’re a douchebag who hires a guy to carry and care for your diamond collection, can’t keep your weight down and listens to headphones on the sideline instead of watching your team…you get cut and you get crap.
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Didn’t say he didn’t i just think its teams decision..And Willis has 1 extra year on him then CJ does.Willis didn’t ask for his I believe, this guys is.
Judgment day is coming!
Of course it's the team's decision
but CJ is using what leverage he can.
You and I if we’re unhappy with our current job can go find work with another employer and stay in the same occupation.
Professional athletes can’t.
I was right, you were wrong.
not if you were a contract employee
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Depends on the contract
Most of them will let you stay in the same field if you sign a non-disclosure agreement.
I was right, you were wrong.
if you get fired for failing to do your job
you’re gonna have a hard time getting hired for your next gig. that’s the thing…NFL athletes dont have that problem. Someone will take a chance on them and pay them a crapload of cash.
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if he misses mandatory workouts
that’s the same as a no-call no-show at your job. if you got fired for that and every other employer knew it…don’t you think it’d be hard to get another job?
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Not if you were one of the best at what you did
but like I’ve said—regular employees have different options.
Professional athletes don’t. They’re told that they’ll get paid if they perform and when they do perform and don’t get paid like they’re worth is it any wonder that they’re bitter?
If the team won’t negotiate with them in good faith what other options does he have? The Titans GM has pretty much completely ruled out a new deal. If I were CJ that would make me question the team’s loyalty to me. If the team isn’t going to be loyal to a player why should a player be loyal to them?
it’s a two way street.
I was right, you were wrong.
i seriously doubt they've decided they wont deal
it’s poker. They’re not going to let him walk, they’re just not going to give him what he wants yet.
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They might be playing it tough
but based on the quote from their GM they don’t sound like they want to even consider it.
I was right, you were wrong.
so they'll let him walk?
you know, part of a guy walking is…him walking too. I wish we knew what was being offered.
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Johnson still has 3 years left on his original deal
he really can’t walk.
I was right, you were wrong.
And yeah it would be nice to know if they've offered anything at all
and if so how much.
I was right, you were wrong.
That’s another of my points is the fact he’s only into the 3rd year of his deal..Willis would have been in his 4th..a whole year is a lot
Judgment day is coming!
CJ's deal is a year shorter
than Willis’ deal was.
Same amount of time left on both of them. Same level of performance from both.
You can’t be ok with doing the one and not the other.
I was right, you were wrong.
I am ok that management was ok with giving Willis a extension..Its their decision, their money
Judgment day is coming!
And also Willis has been in the league for a year longer then him..He has shown for that extra amount of time he’s worth it..Maybe Titans feel CJ hasn’t- Especially with that attitude.
Judgment day is coming!
Maybe you ought to compare CJ to Gore instead of Willis. I remember the 49ers tearing up Gore’s rookie deal after his 2nd season and “paying da man” because the 49ers recognized his record as an impact player and weren’t going to be perceived as PETTY & CHEAP around the league.
Yes but as i said its every team for themselves. Plus these are diff times with the CBA around the corner.
Point A: : Frank Gore, a third-round pick in 2005. He makes an average of $7 million a year from a contract extension he receive in 2006. Gore had 1 year left on his contract..not 3 like CJ
Point B: If we are to go off of performance, then who’s to say the Raiders shouldn’t get most of their money back from Russel.
He already has his Guaranteed money. Sorry if his agent didnt get him a better deal.
I view it like Crabtree last year thinking he should have gotten top 10 money. I wish like I said before there were base salaries, and more incentives.
Judgment day is coming!
Also
Also gore was only signed to a 3 year contract initially , Johnson has a 5 year contract which he only has played 2 years of.
Judgment day is coming!
It's still petty
Paying one of the premier players in the league backup money, not to mention he is the best player on their team.
Of course we are talking about Bud Adams. Well that’s why CJ has an agent, to kick a stiff like Bud Adams in the balls.
Yep thats why i say if you don’t like the deal, don’t sign your name..get a new agent..
The problem is players see $12 million and get googly eyed, then 2 years later realize they cant get all they want from that amount..especially when the guaranteed money dries up.
Judgment day is coming!
don’t be stupid. You are suggesting that every player do what crabtree did and not sign their name. Do you think Crabtree was right in his demands and his holdout?
When unproven players are drafted they are paid based on their draft position. Now he’s proven himself to be one of the best players in the league, they should pay him like he’s one of the best players in the league.
by hellaninersfan on May 20, 2010 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions
in rereading that opened up harsh, sorry about that. but you are suggesting newly drafted rookies should demand to be paid like the player they expect to become, and every rookie should expect the best from themselves. However, they probably aren’t going to become the best, only a few of the will (definitionally). Chris Johnson is one of the best. He is one of two 2000 yard rushers playing today, and won offensive player of the year. He’s earned a pay raise.
by hellaninersfan on May 20, 2010 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree. Rookie slotted contracts are not the same as a free agent contracts. They are paid where the draft slots says they are paid. Can’t blame the player or agent for the only contract offer they received.
Sees solution i offered below. Base contracts with incentives. Makes it fair to teams and players.
Judgment day is coming!
And as i said, he needs to deal with what he signed until A: team offers more, B: His contract is up and he goes for what he deserves..He made his bed, now he needs to sleep in it. This is just the way i feel, I know we have a difference of opinion so i will leave it at that.
Judgment day is coming!
Then he should be asking for a trade.
If their GM really doesn’t want him, they would have no problem trading him. They would have many takers.
by ZeroOneInfinity on May 20, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions
And then he'd be catching grief
for asking for a trade.
C’mon, be realistic here.
I was right, you were wrong.
Be realistic?
Isn’t that the next step of a holdout? If you don’t get what you want, ask to be traded?
by ZeroOneInfinity on May 20, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
What would the Titans get as compensation?
A lot. How much does Chris Johnson really mean for that team? How many games did he win for them? I really don’t know because I don’t watch the Titans, but even in his 2000 yard season, they only went 8-8.
by ZeroOneInfinity on May 20, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Which is what they gave Willis
for his rookie deal.
Apparently I’m the only one who believes that players should be paid based on how they perform.
I was right, you were wrong.
As much fun as this has been
I have to say adios for now and go mow the back yard.
I was right, you were wrong.
If there was a CBA in place, I would see no problem
I think Johnson just chose the wrong time to holdout but his numbers will mostly likely only go down.
by ZeroOneInfinity on May 20, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
And he’s getting paid for the terms of his contract exactly the amount they told him they would. At the end of that contract, they can pay him what he wants or let someone else do it. Just because they are better then what they signed up for doesn’t give them the right to screw with the rest of the team depending on them. Personally I would love to see base pay for each position then use escalators and incentives to give players what they deserve.
Judgment day is coming!
Has anybody else noticed that an NFL contract is kind of a one way street?
The player is expected to honor the contract, but the owner gets to walk away from the deal at any time, for any reason. Because of that, I see no reason why players shouldn’t be able to demand new deals if they aren’t getting what the market will bear for their services.
depends on the verbage
sometimes owners have to pay a guaranteed salary even if they cut a player (see Delhomme)
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In Delhomme's case
he agreed to split his guaranteed money up over a couple of years to help the franchise out. Normally that guaranteed mone would’ve come in the first year bu they were in a prcarious cap situation
I was right, you were wrong.
Yeah, I agree
We think poorly of players who try to negotiate a new deal or want to get traded to a different team, but if a GM decides to ship a player out we don’t mind, or if a GM decides to cut a player we don’t mind.
I was right, you were wrong.
I agree that does suck but its the business these players choose to follow. They know this before they sign the contracts.
Judgment day is coming!
Owners know the gig too
They know if they don’t treat players fairly that the players can choose not to participate.
How is this all on Chris Johnson again?
I was right, you were wrong.
Well, yes, theoretically...
They could refuse to sign a deal unless there was a “no cuts” clause, but if they did that, they wouldn’t get a contract at all. Many players would be qualified for work such as bouncing or car sales outside of football, and that’s about it. It’s not like they went to college to learn anything beyond blitz pickups. That’s not really meaningful freedom of choice.
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