Is Ted Ginn, Jr. really a lock to make roster?
by random_guy on Jun 11, 2010 11:06 AM PDT
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I had to stop and think today when doing some roster projections in my head. This 80-man roster the team will take to camp is full of very talented guys...guys who, if they are cut, will probably be backups at the very least on another team come week 1.
Think of the safeties: Michael Lewis, Taylor Mays, Dashon Goldson, Reggie Smith, Curtis Taylor. I think all 5 are good enough to be on our roster and I'd hate to lose one.
What about CB's? Karl Paymah, Will James, Shawntae Spencer, Nate Clements, Phillip Adams, Tarell Brown. The team will keep 5 of these guys I'd just about guarantee it. You need 7 DB's to play Quarter coverage and even if you use 3 safeties that's 4 CB's (what if one get's hurt? What about special teams?).
With Navorro Bowman coming in there could be 5 ILB's on the roster (unless you believe they'll just cut Wilhelm, who's the only backup with more than 1 year of NFL experience).
The team also has 4 very decent OLB's to keep, at least 5 DL's (don't see them cutting Kentwan Balmer just yet), 8 OL's (you keep 7 you better have a killer guy on the PS or an itchy free agency finger).
It could get really hard to keep everyone.
That got me also thinking about the WR's. We know Michael Crabtree and Josh Morgan are locks based on Crabtree's immense talent and even production in 2009 though limited in opportunities. Morgan is tough and a coaches' favorite.
I think Kyle Williams will make the team because of his unique quickness, hands, snatching skills, and going over the middle...he's the best slot receiver prospect the team's had in a long time. Then there's Jason Hill who plays special teams and has great hands as well as a knack for getting open.
That leaves us with Tedd Ginn, Jr. Will the team keep 5 WR's? They rarely run 3-wides except on 3rd and long. The popular formation last year was single back, two TE's (12 personnel).
Do they need to keep Ginn because of his speed and kick return abilities? It seems like he's not the most likely punt return guy and we all know about the potential for drops in the receiving game. So yeah, he has speed to draw coverage...is that speed plus kick returns enough to push someone else off the roster?
What about a guy like LeRoy Vann? What if Vann and Williams show they can handle kick returns just as well or better than Ginn? What if Vann fights and shows he can be the 5th CB? Sure he's short but he's a fighter, he's quick, has a big vertical, and he was a starting CB in college, albeit for a small school.
What if it's between Ginn and Travis LaBoy? Ginn and Curtis Taylor?
And lastly, what if Dominique Zeigler shows extremely well in camp and pre-season? Zeigler is far and away the tallest WR at 6'3" and also has great (and great BIG) hands. The team hasn't had that kind of end zone WR in some time (yes I know we have Vernon Davis but he doesn't run fade routes to the corner matched up on the outside against a 5'10" DB very often).
So I ask you...is Ted Ginn, Jr. a lock for the 53-man roster, no matter what?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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Without a doubt he'll make the team
I would say McKillop has a great shot of being cut than Ginn with us drafting Bowman and Wilhelm having a lot of experience in Manusky’s system
Also it should be noted that the team drafted Reggie Smith as a CB and could easily use him as the 5th DB which would let the team keep one less CB
Most importantly however is that Ginn has far more experience and productivity than Kyle Williams and Jason Hill. Ginn furthermore is the only guy on the team with the deep speed to really get over the top of the defense which is something we really need considering that Crabtree and Morgan aren’t exactly burners.
Crabtree can get behind a CB in 3 steps
it’s just a matter of the safety help over the top (or lack thereof). Williams is quick too and can draw coverage inside when in the slot (he’ll beat a nickel CB on a slant/SLGO I bet)
You're insane
to even compare Crabs and Ginn in terms of speed. Ginn’s long speed is world class. He has run a 21.16 200m and a 46.57 400m in HS. Supposedly he unofficially ran a 10.02 100m but that is more hearsay than anything. What is not hearsay is that OSU track coach Russ Rogers recruited Ginn to run track, believing that he could qualify for the 2008 Olympics.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jun 14, 2010 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions
don't think it meant speed
but quickness and route running. I agree, Crabtree can make a CB look foolish and a well delivered ball once he’s already got the jump can go for a big play…not the same kind of speed as Ginn by far though.
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Crabtree has beautiful moves
dude faked out a ton of CBs last season. I can’t wait to see what he does this year.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
it's filthy
dirty, just wrong almost. there are gonna be a few DB’s who don’t stand a chance.
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Crabtree might already be in the top 3 route runners in the league
His speed is probably even subpar but he’s so precise in his movements he creates separation and turns defenders around anyways. Being an incredible route runner gets you open more than blazing speed and poor route running. But on a go route I’d rather have Ginn being the guy streaking straight up field.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jun 17, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Best route runners
Andre Johnson… Wes Welker?… Mike Crabtree
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jun 17, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think Crabtree is that good yet
I would still put Reggie Wayne and Larry Fitzgerald ahead of him.
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jun 17, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Boldin, Houshmanzadeh, even Chad Johnson, I am sure there are others.
Let’s not put the cart before the horse, he will get there.
Black Sand Ninja!!!
Boldin is a terrible route runner
But you’re right, Crabtree is not top 3
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Jun 18, 2010 1:07 AM PDT up reply actions
You think so? Boldin has no speed but is almost always open, I cannot agree there.
Black Sand Ninja!!!
Boldin is a very strong receiver
but hardly a polished route runner. The scheme he was playing in maximized the fact that he’s a beast once he gets the ball in his hands.
I'm just not sure how much worse what Vick did than what "Ben" did. Glad he's not a Niner.
Isaac Bruce even in his declining years
Bruce is a master of routes. Welker is the best route runner in the league today.
someone saw a Crabtree move
and said that had to come from watching Isaac Bruce
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
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think it's how he head fakes on his breaks
he like throws his head outside then runs inside.
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
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that was me when you posted that crabtree highlight video
remember that headfake to the out he put on ninjames boy Will James in the DET game on the deep ball alex underthew? Had James all turned around then he recovered cause the was waaayy underthrown
Can u c coach sing's vision? I do!......We all know PATRICK WILLIS is our future!
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I can' agree because he doesn't run more than 3 or 4 routes... Lots of players run the routes he does plus more.
Black Sand Ninja!!!
He's maily a YAC guy though.
I’d put Crabtree above him in route running though.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Jun 18, 2010 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions
He runs very simple routes
I agree 100% with grantmp above me.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Jun 18, 2010 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Reggie Wayne and Larry Fitz yah
Didn’t even think about them… Which is amazing that I would forget the best WR in the game.
Disagree about Boldin and Housh though. Chad Ochocinco, (give him respect and call him by his given name!), has been around the game long enough to know all the tricks so he’s arguably there too.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jun 18, 2010 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
I can't see what it is that isn't seen with Boldin....He gets behind man coverage with 4.5 speed and he burns it with his routes.
Who catches 100 passes repeatedly and can’t run routes, it’s like saying a player can get 1200 yds for years and not be a good runner.
Black Sand Ninja!!!
Brandon Marshall is the same
As is the rookie Bey Bey Thomas.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Jun 18, 2010 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Andre Johnson?
No way he’s the best dude.
Welker should hands down be No.1
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Jun 18, 2010 1:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Can't agree with that either. Andre Johnson gets open on deep routes and doesn't run very man short ones. He is easily the best all around WR in my opinion.
Welker is only good in the slot, period.
Black Sand Ninja!!!
thought the argument was best route runner?
not best all around WR
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It is, but he is better at route running than Welker, he doesn't have to display it as often, but when he does, he gets open downfield vs two defenders, Welker more often than not, is in man coverage or just sitting in a zone.
I think Wleker is a good route runner, but is also in a scheme that makes him seem better than what he is at it. Seems to me he runs 3 or 4 routes, he just does it very well.
Black Sand Ninja!!!
Welker's routes aren't that amazing
it’s just that he knows exactly where to sit in zones and where the defense doesn’t have help when they’re in man against him. He’s a better defense-reader than he is a route-runner. His quickness helps, though.
I'm just not sure how much worse what Vick did than what "Ben" did. Glad he's not a Niner.
Welker
He can do things with his compact size that Andre can’t do. Welker’s change of direction is unmatched in the league. This doesn’t make him the best overall receiver, because isn’t the type to break off tackles or win ball wrestling matches, but he is definitely the best route runner in my opinion. I don’t know how often you see Welker just sitting in empty space waiting for the ball to come to him. I guess it’s hard to make that argument because Moss is always drawing double coverage on the other side.
Wouldn't that be enough though?
If Welker is good at just 3 or 4 routes (though I don’t think that is true) but runs those 3 or 4 routes very well, then wouldn’t that make him a great route runner? In baseball, a pitcher is not judged by the how many different kinds of pitches he can throw, but how effective he uses them and when he uses them. When Welker has the choice on what route to take in order to get open, he usually does. I would say that is good enough.
On another note, if the scheme makes him look better than he is, what if it is the scheme that tells him to only run those 3 or 4 routes so it is the scheme limiting him, not himself? Just a thought.
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jun 19, 2010 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I knew a kid once
who won two state wrestling championships and 95% of his repetoire was three moves that he knew so well that he could go into them from any position.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Good point
BJ Penn’s jiu-jitsu is EXTREMELY basic. Its just he’s so polished in those basics he used them to dominate people using tactics that are considered more advanced when he won the world championships.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jun 20, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think other sports really relate to a route running debate.
Being perfect in 3 or 4 routes doesn’t make you the best route runner, when players use the entire route tree all season long.
Black Sand Ninja!!!
interesting
Mike Lombardi says that Steve Smith is a guy with a very limited route repertoire (he calls them “Steve Smith routes”) but he runs them so well nobody can stop him.
I'm just not sure how much worse what Vick did than what "Ben" did. Glad he's not a Niner.
Yeah
If you’ve got 3-4 routes that look identical until a decision point, say, a curl, a fly, a post, and a post corner, you can practice, practice, practice until the defender cannot tell the difference and is forced to guess or react. If you’re fast, they’ll have a really hard time defending it. The more things you work in, the harder it is to perfect that identical first part of the route.
Think Peyton Manning and the way he practices his play fake. Pete Sampras used to have his coach call out which kind of serve he was going to hit after he tossed the ball to train an identical setup.
There’s a lot of power in perfecting complementary skills like this.
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 22, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
This is football and we are talking route running, and Welker doesn't run many routes.
He gets a good pass thrown and makes plays, he is very efficient. The scheme isn’t limiting him, otherwise his numbers wouldn’t look like that year in and out. I’m not saying he can’t run a route tree, but llok at his games, he doesn’t, not very often.
Black Sand Ninja!!!
I like how you totally missed the point
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jun 20, 2010 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions
You said wouldn't that be enough the 3 or 4 routes?
Yes where he plays, but not enough to call him the best route runner in the league.
Black Sand Ninja!!!
I apologize then
I thought you were saying that Welker was not a good route runner at all. I was arguing that Welker is one of the best route runners in the league but not the best.
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jun 20, 2010 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Johnson doesn't have blazing speed either
We’re talking Andre Johnson not Calvin Johnson. But without blazing speed or being a massive dude he’s still right there with Larry Fitz for best WR in the league. Which means his routes must be fantastic.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jun 18, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Andre Johnson ran a 4.41 at the combine.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but AJ’s a complete package WR—6’ 3", 225, great hands, and fast. I would loooove to see him in a 49ers uniform.
I'm just not sure how much worse what Vick did than what "Ben" did. Glad he's not a Niner.
Johnson is 4.41 fast
But he’s not Megatron 4.33 fast. Johnson is about average speed for a wideout
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jun 19, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
As you'll notice though
I give him his due. I think he’s the 2nd best, (consistency included in being the best so Moss doesn’t qualify), after Larry Fitz who is quite honestly SLOW for WR
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jun 19, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Andre Johnson is fast
He’s not just above average. He is faster than his 4.41 if you watch him on the field. If he had a better QB for his career, his stats would blow people away. Think about what Warner did for Fitzgerald, now think about what Warner would do for Johnson. But alas, he is stuck on the Texans. I mean if Schaub could throw a damn fade route, Johnson could easily score as many touchdowns a season as Fitzgerald.
Johnson is still the best receiver to me because he is the complete package (Size, Speed, Strength, Hands, you name it he’s got it). He is the only receiver to put up over 1500 yards receiving last year and he was also the only one to do that the year before. And on top of that, Johnson is a class act and a very quiet man.
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jun 19, 2010 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
If I were a Texan fan, that would be my new sig.....REC'D
He’s my favorite non-49er
Black Sand Ninja!!!
The guy is ridiculously good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4p4JfNcM_A
Watch this highlight video and see how many times Johnson gets open and if Schaub could have hit him in stride, he would have gone for a TD.
Also, the two catches I like – 0:50 into the video one-handed in the endzone.
3:08 – No one can stop Johnson
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jun 20, 2010 1:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe Calvin Johnson can be better?
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Jun 20, 2010 1:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Definitely could be
but right now, he’s not. If Calvin can put it all together like Andre, I think that he could be very scary. I think I’ve mentioned this to you before that I hope Stafford can be the QB for Calvin Johnson because I do want Stafford to succeed and Stafford has the arm to hit Calvin down field.
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jun 20, 2010 1:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Vernon Davis is faster for comparison
But I’m only talking speed not his skills. If we had Andre Johnson I honestly believe we’d win the SB this year.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jun 19, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Johnson is very fast
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Jun 18, 2010 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Johnson is not as fast as Calvin but he is darn close and a better route runner and mor FYSICAL
Black Sand Ninja!!!
You got what I meant
I’m just saying he’s not DJax or a 4.3 burner but he’s open 25 yards down the field at least once a series.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jun 19, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
He was a track star at Miami
So yes he is blazing fast. Not Desean Jackson but only a step behind.
by crumpedup15 on Jun 23, 2010 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions
go route
yeah, Crabtree double-moves that route instead and ends up open, but needs an extra half-second to put the shake on.
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
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Crabtree doesn't need speed to get behind the DB.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Jun 15, 2010 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
that's what I meant
he can turn the dude around with his routes and be a deep threat in his own way.
In terms of "Pure speed" versus "Pure WR"....
Micheal Crabtree is to Ted Ginn Jr
as
Jerry Rice is to Renaldo Nehemiah
HAHAHA
you went old school. World class speed just didnt have the HANDS.
If a receiver can run crisp routes and have GREAT HANDS you will have a longer in the NFL than just some dude that can stretch field.
If Ginn can work on his hands and show the comittment that VD showed and improved his hands on the jug machine. Our reciever core would be deadly.
Nehemiah wasn't bad
And you can’t blame him really. He was a freakin’ track star, not a football player but Walsh was enamored of his speed.
He had some decent games then got clobbered hard enough in one game to knock him out. After that he was afraid of contact and never put it together.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
+100
Renaldo Nehemiah, a player or reference I’ve never heard of. I gave you points for stumping me.
Thanks
Like Smileyman said, he was a Bill Walsh experiment. He was one of the fastest men on the planet at the time and Walsh figured he could turn him into a deep threat. It didn’t pan out. He took a big close-line hit going across the middle; dude got knocked-out cold. I don’t think he ever suited up again…or if he did, the desire to play was def gone. LOL
I remember the hit Nehemiah took...
Poor awareness. An actual football guy would have known something like that hit was coming and got himself low, not taking the full brunt of it.
It’ll have to be a battle between McKillop vs. Wilhelm for that last MLB spot. As a side question, though, what makes someone practice squad eligible? Any chance McKillop is eligible and gets sent there?
I agree too on Smith being the last safety/CB on the team, especially if the team runs zones in the rare times that they go into a quarter defense (well, I assume it’s rare, though I don’t actually know how often they run it).
None of this may matter, though, if Smith gets injured (again) or Taylor’s one great day was just that, one great day.
I really want to see Vann make this team. I’m pretty meh on Ginn, I didn’t really like the trade to begin with, and it wouldn’t bother me much to see him cut. If it were the choice between the two, I’d take Vann, and I think Vann as just a returner would provide more value than Ginn as both a returner and receiver.
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
Adopted parent of good old Wendell, he tries so hard. You'll get a hit someday son!
by theghostofjasonellison on Jun 11, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
I believe for PS
you can’t have been on the 53 for 2 seasons or been in NFL for like 4 seasons total?
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
Let's talk on Twitter
James said something like
can’t have a full season on the 53? We need the rules posted someone…please…
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
Let's talk on Twitter
8-man Practice Squad:
After all teams have set their 53-man rosters prior to opening day and each team has passed 24-hours on acquiring the contracts of every other player waived by the other 31 NFL teams, each team may sign up to 8 players to occupy its developmental Practice Squad. These players practice with their teams but cannot dress on game days.
Further, any other team may claim a team’s PS player on waivers at any given time during the season — the only stipulation to this is that the team signing the PS player must immediately add that player to its 53-man roster.
A player is elibible for the PS if he:
* Has no prior Accrued Seasons in the NFL
* has one prior Accrued Season in which he was on the 45-man active roster for no more than 8 games
* Has been on the PS with the particular team no more than 2 prior seasons
— Important related definitions:
- Accrued NFL Season:
6 or more regular-season games in one season in which a player is on the 53-man protected roster, IR list or PUP list
- PUP list: Physically Unable to Perform –
this List designates players with serious injuries that will keep them from being able to start a season on the 53-man protected list but may be able to return to the roster during the regular season. The players must be placed on this roster at or before the league-wide 65-man summer roster cutdown to be eligible for this designation, and they must stay on this list for at least the first six weeks of the regular season. After this time teams have 3 weeks to evaluate such players after which each such player must be placed on the 53-man roster, season-ending Injured Reserve (IR) or waivers.
- Injury Settlement:
occasionally a team has a player on IR but agrees with that player to a cash settlement in exchange for releasing that player. The team benefits by limiting further financial responsibility and player carrying costs while the player benefits both by receiving cash and by becoming eligible to sign with another team and begin playing as soon as physically capable (perhaps even during the same season)
- Practice Squad “Season”:
consists of three or more weeks during a single season on a team’s PS
Yep.
Can’t have an entire season on the 53, 16 games. If you do, can’t be on it.
Top Tip for England's next game: If you're watching on Sky+ press pause and wait a second before pressing play. Being a second or two behind the live play will give you that authentic Emile Heskey viewpoint.
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Bottom line is that I hope Ginn only makes the team because...
he’s the better WR than whichever WR get’s cut. But I think he might get hurt in camp anyways…
Well...
…there are a few things to note. We are gifted in that we have three linebackers who excel in coverage: Willis, Lawson and Haralson (Spikes isn’t a slouch either) and a few safeties who can play linebacker, and a few cornerbacks who can play safety.. it’s a nice little conundrum we’ve got here. We’ll keep at least three defensive backs on the practice squad, with a minimum of two.
Matt Wilhelm is as good as gone unless Navorro Bowman doesn’t play well in training camp. I think Willis is pushing the kid for a reason.
Note also that they will almost assuredly keep at least six defensive lineman. The team rostered seven of them this past season and it’s just a huge preference by Greg Manusky, who, let’s be honest, has a lot of pull with Singletary due to the massive amounts of respect that he receives.
So we’re at wide receivers, now. I’m not entirely sure what’s going to happen here. One thing I do believe is that the team will keep Ginn regardless of what happens. I was thinking for awhile that they may only keep 4 WR, but Jason Hill could make it under the ‘3-to-4 special teams players’ who make the roster.
It's not easy being Green..
Stalk me on Twitter!
the numbers don't seem to add up though
we have to go back and take the last roster projections we did (take yours from Eureka) and instead of having 1 DST like M.Rob, make it 4 and see how that changes your other positions.
I think they’d count a guy like Scotty as a DST but he’s also a decent backup ILB. Hill was an ace in ST’s last year too…so what kind of consideration does he get on the WR position cuts? I think this shakes things up some.
Either way other teams will probably be watching our cuts closely because we have a lot of talent on this 80 right now.
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
Let's talk on Twitter
No no no..
..you gotta remember, the 3-4 spots for special teams doesn’t suddenly mean 4 people like M-Rob. Last season Jason Hill was essentially a DST. He was a gunner and didn’t make it on the field often. He said 3-4 spots for special teams players who are also backups. It’s weird language, but not a whole lot changes except for special teams value will play a bigger role in deciding who gets the backup spot. (Think Reggie Smith vs Curtis Taylor)
Like last year, Curtis Taylor was essentially a DST but he wasn’t really, that’s what the 3-4 spots are for.
It's not easy being Green..
Stalk me on Twitter!
by James Brady on Jun 14, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Here's 52 for you.
Quarterbacks (3) Alex Smith, David Carr, Nate Davis
Running Backs (5) Frank Gore, Moran Norris, Glen Coffee, Brit Miller, Anthony Dixon
Wide Receivers (5) Michael Crabtree, Josh Morgan, Kyle Williams, Ted Ginn Jr, Jason Hill
Tight Ends (2) Vernon Davis, Delanie Walker
Offensive Line (8)Joe Staley, Mike Iupati, Eric Heitmann, Chilo Rachal, Anthony Davis, Barry Sims, David Baas, Adam Snyder
Defensive Line (6) Justin Smith, Aubrayo Franklin, Isaac Sopoaga, Ray McDonald, Ricky Jean-Francois, Kentwan Balmer
Outside Linebackers (5) Parys Haralson, Manny Lawson, Travis LaBoy, Ahmad Brooks, Diyral Briggs
Inside Linebackers (4)Takeo Spikes, Patrick Willis, Navorro Bowman, Scot McKillop
Cornerbacks (5) Shawntae Spencer, Nate Clements, Tarell Brown, Will James, Phillip Adams
Safeties (4) Dashon Goldson, Michael Lewis, Reggie Smith, Taylor Mays
Specialists (5) Joe Nedney, Andy Lee, Brian Jennings, Michael Robinson, LeRoy Vann
It's not easy being Green..
Stalk me on Twitter!
by James Brady on Jun 14, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
So I’m thinking.. add another defensive back, tight end, or d-line.
It's not easy being Green..
Stalk me on Twitter!
by James Brady on Jun 14, 2010 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Or Zeigler!
It's not easy being Green..
Stalk me on Twitter!
by James Brady on Jun 14, 2010 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
nice job
can’t see Ziegler unless he’s beastly in ST’s or Hill isn’t planned to see the field much, either way that’s 6 guys and 2 of them probably aren’t on the field much, if at all. Though I do like Ziegler. Maybe we can do like this dude says and just give up on Ginn and let Ziggy make the 53!! :-D
I would say in this scenario Curtis Taylor probably makes it, otherwise you’re talking about Demetric Evans, Byham, or Paymah. Taylor has a year on Paymah and is young and promising but that also means he can be PS’d whereas Paymah doesn’t have eligibility. Byham could also be PS’d. I think having another veteran (who also played a fair amount of special teams thus far in his career) like Taylor or Paymah makes the most sense.
Depends too on if they think Taylor would slide to the PS or get claimed on the waiver wire beforehand…decent young safety.
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Zeigler could very well make it, he’s had great OTAs so far and the team REALLY likes him.
Taylor, Paymah, Ziggy, Curtis, Finley, Byham etc are the last one’s on. Or Evans, of course.
It's not easy being Green..
Stalk me on Twitter!
by James Brady on Jun 14, 2010 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
you said it yourself though
they might go 4 WR’s…so why go 6?
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Over Hill.
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by James Brady on Jun 14, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
depends on his ST prowess
he’d be in on goal line sets, short yardage at best. What if Delanie Walker takes his blocking to the next level? Why not have two TE’s who can block and fly down the field too? We didn’t need a blocking TE in 2009, or at least didn’t use one (unless, was Brit Miller rostered as a TE last year?).
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We brought up another lineman when we needed one. It would be nice to have a blocking TE who can also at least have the skillset to catch occasionally, but I wont obsess over it.
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that's my point
why roster a guy who, yeah, he can catch a football, but he’s no mismatch and since we have two great TE’s who ARE mismatches (and 1.5 of them can block, DW get’s a 0.5 at this point)?
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I won’t be upset if he makes it, and I won’t be upset if he’s done. Ya know?
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if he (Byham) makes it
he better be in on at least 10 plays a game, maybe more. And he better make 2 tackles a game in ST’s
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2 a game on STs is asking a lot.. more like able to not get one for a couple games, and have one or two where he “gets it” and makes 3 or more
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Byham is a wild card
Byam’s main responsibility is to block, wich remindes me of the glory days were Brent Jones would start blocking a guy and fall down, then get up and run to the endzone for an easy TD.
Teams will not really expect Byham to go out on pass routes, and could catch a team off guard.
by ericalancanty on Jun 14, 2010 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions
has to be worth a roster spot
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My 53 is VERY close to your 52... However
RB: of Brit Miller and Moran Norris, I only have one of them making the club. If it’s Norris, then PS Miller
OL: I have Boone rather than Sims, with Chris Patrick or Brian de la Puente to the PS
CB: I have Paymah rather than Adams, with Adams PS’d (along with Patrick Stoudamire), and MAYBE Keith Smith over Will James (depends upon who performs better in camp and on special teams)
Safety: I have Curtis Taylor making the team, Michael Lewis being waived, Chris Maragos to the PS
For my other 2: depends upon special teams value: choosing from: Tony Curtis or JJ Finley, Jehuu Caulcrick, Matt Wilhelm, perhaps Brandon Jones or Dominique Zeigler
Still have room on my PS for 3-4 more…
As for Ginn (the topic of this thread): I MUCH prefer Jason Hill, who ran a 4.32 in the 40-yard dash at the 2007 Combine (second-fastest receiver in that draft). Ginn has suspect hands, lacks courage, return game can be handled by Williams and Vann. But, since you already included Hill on your 52, I’d rather have either Jones or Zeigler over Ginn
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
I disagree about 3 of those things.
I’m with you long term, but Boone has PS eligibility, and, well, Sims has starter ability. He filled in really well last year when Staley went down.
No way Lewis (2nd-leading tackler last 3 years) doesn’t make the team unless he’s concussed.
Jason Hill doesn’t have return ability and doesn’t have game speed like this despite the 4.32 at the combine.
I'm just not sure how much worse what Vick did than what "Ben" did. Glad he's not a Niner.
Note that Jason Hill has amazing speed as a gunner on returns.
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And about Miller and Norris—Norris will make it as the starting FB, Miller will make it for special teams and backup. Sing wants 3-to-4 spots for special teams players, and Miller is one of our three best special teamers. (M-Rob and McKillop)
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can't wait
too see some play action TD’s to Ginn. He’s a game changer.
Boone rather than Sims? I’m sorry but that’s just a point of a fan liking a player with potential far too much. Sims played almost flawlessly at LT, which in my projection, he will be backing up exclusively. There is not a single reason, truly not one reason why Boone should make it instead of Sims.
As far Paymah over Adams, it could happen, but not for the reasons you think. Either Adams or Stoudamire will make the roster, one of the rookies will make the 53. I won’t even get started about about Keith Smith—James is undoubtedly better. This is the only thing I can’t actually dispute that you’ve said.
Michael Lewis being waved? He was one of the best players on defense last year. I’m sorry but that just doesn’t make any sense at all. He does everything we ask of him and only missed one game last season. He is the STARTER at strong safety.
So really, just arguing about Boone and Lewis.
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ah because nfl is year to year
cant rely on what someone did last year to mean anything this year. Sims is a good ol vet and personally to me i think its gonna come down when the pads come on. Im just tellin ya dont be shocked if solari and brown want to mold the young guy and let sims go.
Can u c coach sing's vision? I do!......We all know PATRICK WILLIS is our future!
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Also
Sim’s was terrible at RT…so if Boone plays well enough in pre season I think he has the edge
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
That doesn't make any sense.
Sims will be backing up LT exclusively. Like he should have done, and did once he lost starting job at RT. Boone isn’t competing with Sims, Boone is competing with Snyder. It’s important to have a guy who can backup guards and centers, a guy who can backup LT, and a guy who can backup RT.
Sims – Baas – Snyder. I think Boone is better than Snyder, but Boone can’t play LG, RG, or snap the ball like Baas and Snyder can. I hate getting players based on versatility, but backup offensive lineman is where it’s best utilized.
Note that I love Boone—the guy is just a big blob of potential. But let’s not get carried away here.
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they are
and he was the first of all the Oline to finish sprints
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
how about
Staley, Iupati, Heitmann, Rachal, Davis, Snyder, Boone?
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
that gives us a backup at
2nd RT, LT – Boone 3rd RT snyder 3rd LT Davis with Boone at RT
2nd RG, LG – Snyder
2nd C – Snyder
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
7 isn't enough.
You can’t depend on two guys to backup 5 positions. Sims just needs to stay, I think. He was so good at LT, and Snyder is awful there, worse than he is at RT. It’s good to have an o-line with backups at both tackle positions. 8 lineman for sure.
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then
Boone is even more “sure”
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
Sims will stay, that is why they resigned him.
Boone could show versitility at both tackle positions. It will all come down to preseason games and see how guys do in live action to see if they will make it on the 53 man roster. Boone was a highly regarded player coming out of college but after a drunken tiraid, he fell off the face of the earth. Wasn’t he considered a first round talent at one point. Reminds me of Bulaga, but with one year in the NFL.
by ericalancanty on Jun 14, 2010 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with that assessment
Depth is most important in the trenches and specifically the o-line. We need as many backups as we can get. Snyder needs to go, period.
We'll definitely keep one more OL, 7 just isn't enough...
Add Baas to that list, and I’ll buy it. Bass can snap and play G, Snyder plays G & T (and has been taking some snaps in OTAs), and Boone plays RT, has been working at LT during OTAs
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
yeah
I was thinking about putting him on there
7 almost makes Boone a sure bet.
If 7 then I’d take Sims as the 7th
1) because of Snyders versatility
2) Its easier to find a replacement G than T
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
Boone is nowhere near a sure bet, he’s barely on the bubble to be considered.
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Here are the reasons I'm big on Boone
1) he would have been a higher rated draft pick if he hadn’t been a raging drunk and stomped a police car
1a) he has given us every reason to believe he’s more disciplined
2) he is visibly bigger and more athletic than Wragge and Simms
3) he’s getting a LOT of attention from Solari, and I say that for more reasons than my profile pic
4) if he pans out he can potentially be a solid 2nd at RT or LT
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
I'm big on him too.
I’m going by what is likely, not what I personally would like. In fact, Boone is one of my favorite players on the team, I’ve talked to him and he’s a great dude. But as far as what’s likely, what is best for the team? Boone just isn’t ready.
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who would you
have over him, assuming as you do that we keep 8 OL on the 53?
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
Please note that I do really want Boone to succeed. I hope against hope that he can be on the PS and be on the active roster next year when Sims likely retires.
My 8 would be
Staley, Iupati, Heitmann, Rachal, Davis with Sims backing up LT, Baas backing up LG and C and Snyder backing up RG and RT.
Boone just isn’t ready, and Snyder can play all five positions on the line, and with Staley coming off an injury it’s absolutely crucial we have Sims to depend on at LT.
One other thing to consider: I think Boone can be on the PS, and if he gets an offer, will turn to Singletary, and I do believe 100% that Singletary would then make room for him on the 53. Boone knows his best chance to succeed is here on the 49ers.
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Thats my default scenario
If Boone doesn’t show much in the preseason.
But I disagree on his best chance. I think there are several teams rebuilding with worse 2nd or third, let alone 2nd and 3rd, LT RT options out there.
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
Boone 6'8" 313 age 23
Was signed to the active roster last year.
Simms 6’5 300 lbs. age 35
Solari can teach him…..
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
And I'm really fine with that...
…but he has to show it and be more than just a guy that everyone thinks CAN be good. I need to see him get smashed into with regularity. If we roster him, and he fills in for an injury and we lose a game or two because of sacks.. augh
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that always sucks
we are both hoping to see good things from him in the preseason
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
Most definitely
Unrelated, but I was the one who got him into Madden last year. I made him on my franchise and he was my starting RT for 7 seasons until I traded him, haha. I do like the guy a lot
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do we get right of refusal though?
on a PS offer
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Nope
We can talk try to talk a player out of jumping to another roster, but we don’t have the right of first refusal
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
that's what I thought
hence the term “Plucked” from the PS
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It's not a right of first refusal.
But it IS a notification. You have time to talk it through most of the time, I believe, and try and get him signed.
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probably only as much time
as the player gives you before he inks the deal
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One question with Boone
I havne’t seen much lateral quickness…yet
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
have you been to the buffet with him?
wait, that was last year
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yeah
but now its the salad bar
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
Baas is closer to a lock than Boone or Snyder
I think. Younger and started 16 games at LG last year, playing well at times. Snyder didn’t start all games and really played bad always.
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boone
has been working at left tackle in thes OTA’s
Can u c coach sing's vision? I do!......We all know PATRICK WILLIS is our future!
May 12 2010 comment of the day award winner on the nuggets!
he has
I believe the hope is to find a swing tackle to take Sims spot, at least eventually
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this though
guys, we have to also consider someone will get hurt in camp. someone may end up on IR or PUP, or waived. Obviously we can’t predict who wont make it, but for the same reason we can’t predict who will, not with complete certainty.
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Very close to what I've got ...
But, don’t believe that the final 53 will contain two real FB; maybe one FB plus a Byham-type — combo TE / FB / H-Back / goal-line blocker.
I think that there is a chance that they will carry six WR.
Otherwise I agree:
OFFENSE — QB (3), RB (3), FB (1) TE/Combo (3), WR (6), OL (8) = 24
DEFENSE — DL (6), LB (9), CB (5), S (4) = 24
SPECIAL TEAMS — Nedney, Lee, Jennings, Robinson, Vann = 5
by 49erFanSince1950 on Jun 16, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I assume your 9th LB
is Wilhelm? Briggs? Burnett?
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Ginn looked great at practice today
he caught a lot of medium range throws about 10-15 yards. He got open a lot and had good body position for the catch.
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
For every good day there is a bad one.
He will always be the kind of receiver that lets you down a lot, then has a great game.
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maybe he is catching
some of that VD…influence
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
maybe he is catching
some VD?
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It could be that a lot of the problems with his hands
are related to the fact he’s so pure sprinter fast that he might not have his body ready in an efficient catching position when he gets to the ball. That is something that good coaching and working with other guys that have talent, (something there was none of at WR in Miami), can correct. If he just has stone hands that sucks… But if its because of positioning at speed he could make vast strides.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jun 14, 2010 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Gee, were they in pads today?
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
This was re: Ginn looking great in practice today...
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
no
but he looked stronger than the previous non-padded practices
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
I knew we weren't in pads today... I just have very little faith in Ginn.
He has great physical skills, but has no fysical skills, for those who get my drift…
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
by OldJock on Jun 14, 2010 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
I see this a lot, but I have absolutely NO idea what it means…
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
by OldJock on Jun 14, 2010 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
actions > rec
I rec’d you for example
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jun 14, 2010 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Recommended, it means it was a good post, insightful, needs to stand out. When you get three recs it goes green, and when you get three on a fanpost it goes to the recommended list.
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Thanks for the enlightenment...
appreciated
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
c'mon now...
cut ginn? dude’s a proven commodity in this league, and we’re talking about rostering an undersized corner from a tiny college over ginn just because he’s shiny and new?
Vann had a nice career in college. I seriously doubt he’ll ever come close to matching Ginn’s achievements in pro ball.
He’s far from a proven commodity as a receiver, that’s for sure.
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gotta disagree
as a WR1 on a ‘run first’ ball club, while also handling KR duties, he’s put up some decent numbers. better than jason hill. better than brandon jones. better than ziegler. I know you like Z, but there isn’t any comparing the two.
I didn’t compare Ginn to Zeigler, and if I was, I’d tell you that Zeigler has a better jump, infinitely better hands, and gets position better at the sidelines and end zones. However, I never did compare them.
As a receiver he’s been nothing past ‘alright’. He’s a guy who builds your hopes up with a good game, and then strings together four games of mediocrity and crippling drops. I’m not damning the guy, if he proves me wrong, I love ’im. But his biggest asset right now is KR and being a scapegoat for Vernon Davis.
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word
i know you weren’t comparing, i was just noting that as a commodity, ginn’s on top of the second tier. he hasn’t missed a game in his career…that’s a proven commodity in my eyes.
i still just don’t understand why folks are measuring him up to be our top target. it would be nice to still evaluate him as a first round pick, he’s not that anymore. in this offense, he’s the best bet to stretch a D because of the fact that he’s been around. defenses have to match him up, and they know he’s got jets. any niner fan should be thrilled that he’s here.
He’ll make the roster, and he should be good. I just don’t want to depend on him too much you know? I don’t want Jimmy Raye to go in saying “Alright Alex, I want you to hit Ginn here, here and here.” I want Ginn to be a guy out there who Alex sees as his third option or first deep option when we really need him.
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And, like you noted, defenses have to match him up, and that’s an asset. If he and Davis are both on the field, it forces a defense to use a linebacker, fall into the nickel, etc.
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if he Davis, Walker are on the field
then pick whoever you want at WR opposite…that’s a nightmare. You don’t have 3 guys fast enough to cover those 3 and strong enough also to body up on the TE’s.
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To those questioning my analyses, more of my thinking behind my comments:
re Boone over Sims: I acknowledge that Sims did an excellent job last season replacing injured Staley at LT. However, the previous season, Sims was unremarkable at RT and he’s 35. Boone’s 23, and if we try to PS him, he’ll be claimed by another team. It’s not just about this season, it’s also about building for the future…
re Hill over Ginn: Ginn is hardly “a proven commodity”. Miami removed him as their punt returner because of poor performance in that role. He’s had 39+ receptions only once (and was the teams #1 receiver?) As I stated above, he has very suspect hands, and lacks courage. Look at posts made by Miami fans to this site when we traded for him. They watched him play every game for 3 seasons… see what they had to say about him. Hill had 30 receptions two seasons ago with far fewer appearances on the field than Ginn had, and has almost always produced when given the opportunty. He’s a gunner on STs, Ginn’s not gonna do that. And about Ginn’s speed… can anyone say “Ashley Lelie”?
re waiving Michael Lewis: granted, he’s bee among our leading tacklers every season he’s been here… I respect and thank him for that. However, he’s 30 with a big contract and a history of concussions. Once a player has experienced multiple concussions, future concussions will come more frequently and as a result of less violent contact. I fear his football future will be very short, and I hope and pray he gets out before he suffers any permanent brain damage.
re Brit Miller’s ST contributions: I left two spots for backups with strong ST contributions, and gave a list of possibilities for those slots. I didn’t include Miller on my list because I PS’d him, but I probably should have.
As for Ninjames comment “I won’t even get started about about Keith Smith—James is undoubtedly better.” Look at Crabtree’s 2009 highlight video. He left James sucking the sweat out of his jock with a move when we played Detroit. James wasn’t just beaten on that play, he was humiliated… Besides, I said "MAYBE [and I even capitalized the “MAYBE”] Keith Smith over Will James (depends upon who performs better in camp and on special teams)"
I guess I’m from the Bill Walsh school of roster building (I hope a few of you remember him). He let Montana, Lott, Rice, and Craig (among others) go while they still had something left in the tank so he could keep younger players to develop for the future. Too much sentimentality towards older players leads to a much shorter run while at the top of the heap.
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
re Sims: Sims is not going to be backing up the right tackle position. If Boone makes it, he will be making the roster over Adam Snyder, NOT Sims, and Snyder can play five positions, Boone can play one, and it’s not the one Sims plays.
re Lewis: He does not have a big contract. Go look at it again. None of the other players are ready to start at SS, nor will they be by the beginning of the season.
re Miller: There are 3-4 spots for backup special teams positions, as stated by Singletary.
re James: James just came off his best season and played better than both Smith and Paymah have in their whole careers. You are citing ONE PASS against Crabtree. The coaches undoubdtedly say James get beat last season and still brought him in. Keith Smith has play upon play of being absolutely horrible in coverage, man and zone.
As for the last bit, I guess that also related to Lewis. The reason why we won’t go with the young right away is because the 49ers want the playoffs NOW and Lewis has been one of the best players on our defense. As the season progresses, Mays will get more and more playing time, but right now he’s too useful to let go.
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you both make good points
and argue your points intelligently, and fairly.
I declare a draw.
that is all
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I thought Paymah played well the two games he started for Minnesota
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
I did too
and he’s played ST’s quite a bit. He’s crafty and likes press coverage on the outside. If we got in a pinch we could start T.Brown outside then move him in on nickel sets with Paymah outside.
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I agree with the two post preceding this, by smileyman and Tre...
which is why I put Paymah on my 53, ahead of both Smith and James…
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
I'll admit.
I’m biased against Paymah. But that’s it. I’ll agree that he looked good then, but he’s has a lot more damning tape on him than James.
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One last time...
Last season, Michael Lewis’ cap figure was $5,000,000 and he was the 12th highest paid safety in the league (for comparison, last seasons cap figure for Mark Roman was $1.425 mil (46th among safeties), for Dashon Goldson $0.571 mil (77th among safeties)—Lewis earned nearly 10 times what Goldson earned):
http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=152)
Also, I’m assuming that it’ll be higher this season, but I think that’s a pretty good assumption. To me, that’s a big contract, so I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one…
The “last bit” was directed more at Sims who, again, is 35. My concerns about Lewis are more about his health and the quality of the rest of his life (for him personally), then about his career longevity (for the future of the team). As I stated earlier, I like and respect him, so it has nothing to do with that. And about Sims, I don’t think that you can keep a back up OLman who can only play one position… you do… so again let’s just agree to disagree.
You’re still not reading what I said regarding Will James vs Keith Smith: what I’m trying to say is LET’S SEE WHO WINS THE JOB IN TRAINING CAMP, I’m NOT promoting Smith over James, but you seem to be insisting I am. I simply disputed your claim that “James is undoubtedly better”… again “LET’S SEE WHO WINS THE JOB IN TRAINING CAMP”. You said "The coaches undoubdtedly [sic] say [did you mean “saw”?] James get beat last season and still brought him in"… the EXACT SAME THING CAN BE SAID ABOUT Smith… so, let’s stop discussing this, and just SEE WHO WINS THE JOB IN TRAINING CAMP… OK? Sheesh…
Tre.. this post was under construction when you made your post which follows this
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
I'd say that he played like the 12th best SS in the league.
Don’t compare Roman to him either. And Lewis is better than Goldson, he does what he’s asked with almost no mistakes.
I’d like to see who wins the job in training camp as well. And yes, I did make a couple errors on my post, which I noticed immediately and have the power to edit, but I didn’t—did you need to call me out on those, because that’s pretty insulting considering the venue.
Why the sheesh? We’re having a good discussion my friend, I don’t know why you’re getting upset/heated/whatever but I like debating such things.
Sims stays because Staley was hurt last season, coming off a pretty big injury. What if he doesn’t return as strongly and then we have someone unproven playing at the left tackle position for however long remains? And Sims will have already been picked up. Disastrous.
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Sims also stays because we've already inked a one year deal with him
worth $2.1 million. You don’t give a guy that kind of money on a contract if you think you’ll be cutting him at the start of the season. You give him veteran minimum (like we did with Paymah and James).
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
That is not true
And Lewis is better than Goldson, he does what he’s asked with almost no mistakes.
What did you see when you rewatched the Packers Game?? or did you have any time? I think you’re a busy guy!!
Black Sand Ninja!!!
Lewis is more consistent than Goldson
but that’s not necessarily a good thing.
I really do think Goldson has the potential to be a top 5 safety, but he’s not that right now.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Yeah keep in mind, I mean better right now. He’s proven he’s better, Goldson can be a helluva lot better.
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I see Goldson as a guy that
Was not better in the beging of the seasonbut was better at the end. I know Lewis was injured at the end and did not play but Goldson at the end was better than Lewis at the begining up till he was injured. Goldson has the best up-side, but Lewis will play this year and start until Mays is ready to take over this year or next year.
by ericalancanty on Jun 18, 2010 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Almost no mistakes, and EVERYONE was bad in coverage during that game.
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seriously though, the bit about my spelling is making me really mad. Everybody on the internet who doesn’t have another point just tries to insult grammar or spelling. I also noticed I spelled undoubtedly wrong and was going to go back but it just slipped my mind. Just upsetting, I’m an editor, a writer, a proofreader and a copywriter—I know what I’m doing, I just figure, among friends, I don’t have to worry about such things. Apparently I do.
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Nin
As far as “calling you”… in the comment “the coaches say…James get beat last season”, the word “say” DOES make perfect sense in that position, as does the word “saw”. That was a legitimate question on my part.
You are correct, however, the other was uncalled for, and I apologize for that. Sorry.
As for my bringing Goldson and Roman into the discussion, I did so ONLY for salary comparison purposes, to somehow support my contention that Lewis’ contract could be called “big”.
About the “sheesh”, I added that because I had earlier said let’s let them battle it out in camp and see who wins, and you came back as if I was making some huge claim for Smith being superior to James, which I thought that I clearly was not… just a bit of exasperation on my part. I, too, love the debate, but I felt that what I was trying to say (I thought clearly, but obviously not) was not being heard, or was being intentionally discounted as meaningless.
And I’m not sure that Sims, at his age (I know, I know, I’m pummelling the deceased equine here) will be picked up if we waive him. I feel strongly that Boone will be if we try to PS him.
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
Apology accepted. And I understand things need to be worked out in training camp and preseason, I was just stating my case for James over him, unlike Coffee and Dixon and all this, we have NFL game comparisons we can work with, you know?
Sims would be picked up after his game tape from last season. Plenty of teams could use him, he’d be the best backup or spot-treatment LT on the market.
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Cap figure is not the same as salary
you should know this.
Cap figures include bonus money already paid.
Sims was signed to a one year $2.1 million deal almost as soon as the season ended last year. He’s not going to be cut when we extended him that kind of money that fast.
He probably won’t be back in 2011, but that’s an entirely different thing.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
how much is guaranteed, what was paid as SB?
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his contract isn't guaranteed
but you don’t offer that much money in a contract unless you want the guy to stick around. If your guy is competing for a spot you give him veteran minimum.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
smileyman, I do know that, but it's the cap figure (and I know that this is likely to be an uncapped year)
when I talk about a big contract, I consider the cap figure. That’s my perspective, to which I’m entitled….
Tre, I supplied a link to where I got the info, but 0 was SB, $3.1 mil as “other bonus”, which again I feel is probably something likely to be earned again this season.
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
I never talk about cap money when I talk about contract money
cap money is fictitious money. The amount you have to worry about is the actual real salary, at least when it comes to value to the team.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Nearly all NFL contracts have bonuses other than signing bonuses contained
within them. If those bonuses are cosidered reasonably easy to earn, they are added on to the “base salary” when the NFL is calculating the cap figure. If that bonus money was earned, and was reasonably easy to earn (NFL counted it against the cap) there’s no reason to suspect that the bonus won’t be earned the following season. I don’t see how this is “fictitious” money… the player earned it, it was paid to him, it counted against the cap, and he’s likely to earn it again the next season.
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
You said "cap money is fictitious money"
After giving what I considered justification, I replied “I don’t see how this is "fictitious" money”
I was hoping that you’d expand on your “fictitious money” comment, so I could understand your pov. “I know” falls far short of what I was hoping for/expecting as a reply…
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
Because it's not actual salary money paid out to the player that year
most of it is signing bonus money that’s been pro-rated for the length of the contract.
The money you have to really worry about when it comes to the cost to a team is the player’s salary and any incentives.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Isn't Baas taking snaps at Center?
I would rather see Snyder go. Boone is a more physical player that would be better at the run game than Snyder. I like Snyder (Oregon) but need to see something more from his spot. He was the weak link last year and I would rather give a chance to a young guy. Boone has taken his job serious since he has been here. He deserves a shot. He was highly regarded out of Ohio State before the drunken nights/fights. You know what Snyder brings, lets see what Boone has to offer.
by ericalancanty on Jun 18, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
more of my thinking re: your analyses
re Boone over Sims: I think it’s unlikely that a team other than the Niners has had a look at Boone and Boone has given every indication that he’d like to stay with the Niners. So ‘squadding him seems low risk at this point—that may change with Training Camp and the Preseason. Sims, too, likes his spot—he signed with the Niners rather than taking FA money elsewhere, and that’s the kind of loyalty that tends to get rewarded.
re Hill over Ginn: When I say that Ginn is a proven commodity, I don’t mean that he doesn’t have issues; I mean that he’s proven to have a unique skill that no other receiver on the Niners has—namely that he can get behind defenses. The impact of this on specifically the Niners’ offense is that when Ginn is on the field, it’s much more difficult to crowd the box and play action becomes a much bigger weapon. Against a crowded box, you need a ‘lid-lifter.’ Consider being in the position of the safety lined up with deep responsibility with Ginn and Vernon Davis running vertical routes vs. Jason Hill and Davis running vertical routes; which scenario would you rather have as that safety? There may have been some frustration with Ginn among the Miami fans you mention, but there was that frustration because a) he was a #1 draft pick and b) he clearly had a ton of potential. The difference between the value of a gunner and a KR on ST is pretty huge, and not in Hill’s favor. As for the analogy with Ashley Lelie, I see what you’re trying to say, but nothing out of Niners camp indicates that Ginn can’t run routes or that he doesn’t want to work, both of which were issues with Lelie. As for Ginn’s ‘lack of courage,’ even if that’s the case, not every WR has to work the middle of the field like T.O.
re: waiving Michael Lewis: Not all concussions are created equal (something that makes these things hard to figure), but all indications point to Lewis’ concussions not having been that serious. Maybe he has a big contract, but in the absence of anyone to replace him, he’s got to stick around. Two years ago, the Niners had Lewis and Roman making the deep adjustments and calling plays. Last year Roman took a seat and that role fell much more to Lewis (at least in the base D). Now you’re suggesting that either a rookie (Mays) or a 2nd-year 7th-rounder should come in to replace him without any regular-season grooming in the position? That seems somewhat foolhardy; a defense isn’t learned in a day.
I guess I’m from the Bill Walsh school of roster building (I hope a few of you remember him)
I wouldn’t say that it’s sentimentality that’s leading me to think that some of the old guard should stick around. It’s the fact that the young bucks will likely be able to still stick around and learn from the old guard so that they’ll be able to be plugged right in when the team does need to show those vets the door.
I'm just not sure how much worse what Vick did than what "Ben" did. Glad he's not a Niner.
+1 on lewis
say what you will about his physical tools at this point, he’s the smartest defensive back on our team and infinitely valuable to the development of both taylors.
concussions
are all serious. They build up over time, making it easier to get the next one and they have a cumulative affect on a player’s ability to think.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
agreed
Serious, yes, but equal in severity, no.
I'm just not sure how much worse what Vick did than what "Ben" did. Glad he's not a Niner.
They aren't all equal no
The concussion that Jahvid Best had is the type that he’ll never recover from fully. He’ll always be a little more susceptible to head injuries. Having 3 lower grade concussions in a season is probably very close to that 1 massive concussion though.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jun 17, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't see the possibility
One thing always interesting about the 49ers quartet of weapons is they always talk about each other in interviews: Gore, VD, Crabtree and Morgan. Recently Ginn’s name has been quoted in that group by these very players in interviews. If these four are saying Ginn Jr. is now the 5th it means they believe in him and is entrenched on the roster.
I'll say this about Ginn
in my franchise mode of Madden 2010 I traded for him and got him playing the slot position. And just like real life he drops the ball in the GAME too. But when I have him KO return and Punt Return Ginn is a beast.
Cant wait for Madden 2011 to come out the niners D should be really fast with Bowmann and T Mays. And if Leroy Vann makes the team i can already imagine what his speed is going to be its gotta be up there with Ginn,s Speed.
Its probably not even close
just to be real with you. If he was running in the 4.2’s, (which Ginn was widely linked to when healthy at OSU), some major school would have rolled out the red carpet.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jun 14, 2010 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5207747
Watch this, it’s funny but the comentaor starts to really piss me off.
by ericalancanty on Jun 18, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
The commentator is so negative
I like the idea that the commentators know more about the players, but that guy just takes it too far.
It also does not help that whoever is playing does not know what they are doing.
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jun 19, 2010 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Hopefully we don't have two full backs on the roster and also all the CB's listed above.
I’d cut Paymah before Ginn. Ginn can give our offense great field position on kickoffs and punt returns and gives us a deep threat that none of our other WR’s can.
Black Sand Ninja!!!
really?
I think two FB’s is kind of a waste. Particularly when you have a guy like MRob who can serve as a backup FB with tremendous versatility.
I say either Norris or Miller. I personally think Miller is the way to go, but I’d need to see some actual footage to make that judgment.
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
oh yeah
oops
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
Norris is only around to keep Gore happy...
I will assume that Gore is not the type to lose his “desire” once his buddy is let go.
however
agree with Ginn. He simply has an element on offense that the other guys just don’t have. He also has to be accounted for as a KR. Teams will have to make sure to set an edge against him, which should translate into a much better avg. per return due to the increased need for the kickoff team to cover the whole field. One seal from MRob and he’s gone (see block(s) he threw for Rossom’s monday night return).
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
correction
there was only one Rossum
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
The two FB’s would have the backup be a special teamer, like Miller, who has been called one of the three best special teamers on the 49ers. He also is a threat in the passing game, and creates an interesting matchup, but Norris stays for his blocking.
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Yeah but where do you list Robinson, he has to be on the roster and what spot on the depth chart is that?
We don’t HAVE to have a pass catching FB, we definitely need a speedster at WR.
Black Sand Ninja!!!
MRob
wasn’t he once on the roster as the 2nd FB?
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
but not listed as such
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
remember that terrible hands weren’t ginn’s only problem as a receiver. According to some Phins fans it wasn’t even his biggest. He is terrified of contact. he was reluctant to catch coming across the middle and would run out of bounds 5 yards before he had to to avoid being tackled. I could see a brawler like Vann replacing him as the #1 return man, and someone with hands like Williams replacing him as the deep threat receiver. Then what is Ginn’s role? remember williams was the one who looked most natural as a punt returner after the first OTAs.
Ginn was a decent return man. he wasn’t even that good. And he was a downright terrible receiver. he was worth a 5th round pick, but I don’t think he’s guaranteed anything.
Yeah that was one of the main points
Funny actually – another commonality between VD and Ginn – they both shared the same fear. Remember the first year after VD’s injury across the middle?
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
I think this was what r_g was saying
was that if Ginn doesn’t impress as a WR and someone else get’s the PR job…we keep him because he’s fast and returns kickoffs? More like IF he doesn’t impress as a WR then he’s just a glorified kick returner eating up a roster spot
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Isn't it nice that
we have talent at these positions that we can’t guess who is staying & who is leaving!!
"Moving Forward."
I support Ginn
because as of right now he is a Niner and we need him to succeed.
by danknerd49 on Jun 14, 2010 7:23 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
As of right now, ALL the players we're discussing are Niners
They can’t all make the team, so we’re exchanging our ideas as to who we think will make it, and why. Of course we all want all players who are part of the team to be successful…
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
Also, welcome to NN random_guy.
Saw that you registered rather recently, pretty good response for a fanpost for someone so new. Hope you stick around. :]
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thanks Ninja
man i was just gone for a while had to get somethin staraightened out with my profile (think i was postin so much stuff there was like an auto banning of my account or some ish)
man had no idea this would blow up so big glad i could get everyone talkin about something during this boring off-season
you have to keep more than 4 receivers
what if one got injured for just a couple games? you cant put a guy on any kind of reserve list for that short of a time, so then they would have to head into a game with just 3 receivers and what if someone got injured during that game? all of a sudden youre playing an nfl football game with 2 wide receivers eligible to take the field.
so at least 5 WRs make the roster and i think ginn is 3rd or 4th most likely, depending on which side of kyle williams you put him on.
1 – crabs
2 – morgan
3 – ginn/williams
4- williams/ginn
5 – hill
6 – jones/zeigler
The enemy of my enemy is collateral damage.
you're probably right
if the guy wasn’t on IR they’d have a choice: run 12 personnel a heckuva lot more (even on third down) or cut someone to sign another WR. The injured WR would be taking up a roster spot if it was only a few games injury.
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Several teams only keep four receivers, with 2 on the PS.
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i was gonna look to seee if there was a team that did that last year
but don’t know where to fine that. but i think probl;em is if your WR get’s hurt but not real bad, you can’t call up a guy from PS cause the hurt dude wouldn’t he take up a roster spot still? s o you’d have to cut someone else if you want to bring up another WR or sign one?
If your guy gets hurt, you put him on IR and move on. You have to remember, you have three starting receiver, and when one gets hurt, you can sub in the other for the remainder of the game and then elevate a guy after the game. There is always an expendable player or two on the roster, as well.
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what I was saying way up there was
what if it’s a sprained PCL and it’s a 2-game rest type injury, and it’s only week 2? And it’s Crabtree. You gonna put him on IR and elevate someone?
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Nope. You cut someone else, and then elevate someone. Happens all the time, to be honest.
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yeah, have to
cut a special teamer, 6th CB, 5th Safety, 7th DL…
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I bet Jones doesn't make it
he’s been held out out OTAs due to injuries and all of his reps are going to other guys.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
I don't think he makes it either
Hill has looked great by all accounts and Ziegler is getting some reps here and there too…plus there’s already 5 guys once you count Crabtree, Morgan, Hill, Ginn, Williams (yes, he’s a lock)
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a thought to sum up what my post was saying:
What happens if other guys prove better at returning punts and kickoffs, leaving Ginn to just be a WR? If it’s just him against Hill, Ziegler, Jones for one roster spot…does Ginn really offer enough to get the spot?
it's a fun though to ponder
and it’s the same scenario with Vann… what if he shows his proficiency as a KR but consistently misses assignments in coverage? we’d roster him as a STer and he ends up having no additional value. meanwhile we have a guy on our squad who’s played as a WR1 and KR full time in a very competitive division. does Ginn become expendable because he’s not the better KR? In the event of injury- which one becomes a bigger liability to his surrounding corps? With Ginn, there’s not a huge emphasis on his contribution to offensive production- we’re relying on Gore and Crab/VD/Josh to be our producers. there’s still many questions in the defensive backfield yet to be answered.
how awesome is it that we’re having this discussion this year? now, if only they could make the offseason another 6 weeks longer, we can discuss it even further!
don't even say that!
I can’t take another 6 weeks of the doldrums!
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Ginn created space as a #1 WR in Miami against #1 and 2 corners but couldnt catch the ball. now that he’ll be the 3rd/4th WR working against inferior talent his speed will shine. Also hes got Gore, Crabtree and Davis to lure coverage. Alot of times he may be 1 on 1 with a nickle or dime back and all he would have to do is use his speed to beat them. He’s got so much talent hes worth a atleast a 1 season try out
I hope they motion him a fair amount
to identify coverage mismatches when they’re in man.
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Imagine if you get him on a linebacker
lulz
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jun 17, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions
haha
imagine VD and Ginn swap spots, VD outside and Ginn in the slot…uh oh…
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At least one of these young guys will suck enough to not deserve a roster spot. If Ginn sucks worse than him, well… he really doesn’t deserve a roster spot. Kinda like in those cooking reality shows where somebody makes a really crappy entree only to be saved by the guy who served raw chicken.
The only way Ginn goes home is as the raw chicken guy.
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by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 15, 2010 1:54 PM PDT reply actions
and is that so totally out of the question?
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Given that he's proven that he can catch balls in the NFL
Yeah, it’s pretty far out of the question that every single undrafted rookie will beat him out for a roster spot. But what do I know?
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by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 20, 2010 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions
not every single undrafted rookie
we’re talking about Zeigler and Hill, plus Williams who was drafted, albeit in the 6th round, but Ginn was WAY overdrafted and the draft in which Williams was taken was a very deep draft. Take Mays, Bowman, Dixon, etc. for instance. We’ll probably be talking about how many steals there were in this draft for years to come.
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At this point
Ginn’s draft position doesn’t matter. It never should have, but that’s beside the point. Ginn has put up half decent numbers, has proven that his speed in the NFL is special and can stretch defenses. Neither Zeigler, Hill, nor Williams have shown what Ginn has shown in the NFL. Ginn would have to regress to be beaten out by all of these guys… and he’d have to be beaten out for kick return duty. It’s just really, really hard to see a scenario in which Ginn does not make the team.
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by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 22, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
I guess I just wonder
what if he sucks in training camp? What if there are drops all over the place, even on punt/kickoff duty? What if his speed is literally the only thing he brings? I’m not saying it will surely happen…but the only thing we can all agree on is Ginn is fast. Is that enough?
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Like I said
You’re asking these questions about a proven NFL player. Somebody who has made it through a few camps (albeit with the “He’s our #1 pick, we can’t dump him” tag). You can easily ask those same questions about Vann, Williams, Zeigler, and Hill, and they haven’t really proven themselves on the NFL stage. We don’t know that Vann’s speed is as threatening as Ginn.
I just find it really hard to believe that anybody can expect an NFL player who almost made it to 1,000 receiving yards in a year with a truly special talent (speed) to be beaten out by 3 guys who haven’t proven anything on the NFL stage.
I’d say 100 to 1. Unless his leg breaks in half.
the only thing we can all agree on is Ginn is fast.
Is there anything we can all agree on about Vann, Hill, and Zeigler that we know will have an impact as an NFL player? No, because none of them have proven anything in the NFL. Zeigler has height, but can he use it? Vann was an excellent returner in college, but he was playing against mediocre college competition, will that translate to the NFL? Hill has shown flashes of being capable, but can he be consistent? Williams is quick, but is he NFL quick?
There is at least something we know Ginn can do to help an NFL team. We don’t even know that with any of the young hopefuls.
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by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 22, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Scratch that "1,000 yards" comment
It was 800, which isn’t bad, but not “almost 1,000.”
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
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by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 22, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I keep hearing how fast Ginn is....
reminds me of what we kept hearing about Darrius Heyward-Bey prior to the 2009 draft…. or when Bill Walsh signed Renaldo Nehemiah, world-record holder in the 110 m hurdles and ranked #1 in the world for 4 years…
Is Ginn fast? Yes. Does he have good hands? No. Will he lower his shoulder and try to run over the DB for those extra couple of yards and a first down, rather than run out of bounds short of the first to avoid contact, late in the game when it’s all on the line??? I really doubt it. Miami replaced him as their punt returner because of his lack of performance in that capacity…
We have 7 receivers on the roster that I’d keep over Ginn (Crabtree, Morgan, Hill, Jones, Zeigler, Kyle Williams, and undrafted rookie free agent Bakari Grant out of UCDavis, who made a couple of outstanding catches during OTAs), but that’s just me. Some of you value speed above all else. I value other traits for a wide receiver… courage, hands, route running… speed helps, but isn’t the holy grail for a WR.
The GOAT wide receiver, our very own Jerry Rice, wasn’t a blazer… according to the Sporting News, Gil Brandt said Jerry Rice ran around a 4.65, Wikipedia claims he ran a 4.71…
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
this
although it’s premature for me to proclaim Ginn cut, but all I’m saying is IF his speed is all he shows in camp, but nothing else…he should be cut.
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FACT
Ted Ginn has caught more passes (128) for more yardage (1,664), started more games (35), and started more playoff games (1) than anyone else on our roster. The only player who comes close is Brandon Jones.
He’s not really a veteran, but he’s the most experienced receiver on our roster. That, combined with the fact that he has proven to have a valuable skill (speed) which helps the team whether he gets the ball or not is what gives him a major edge over all of the young guys who haven’t earned their way onto the field yet.
Jerry was faster in pads than without. He also had a fast top speed that didn’t really show up in the short 40 yard dash. He was also the GOAT. Just because Jerry Rice excelled without a great 40 time doesn’t mean that speed is worthless.
I value good hands, route running, and “courage” as much as the next guy. But it’s like Nintendo Ice Hockey. You need big guys, fast guys, and guys in the middle. Having the threat of a speedy guy beating the safety deep means he’ll take a few extra backpedals or keep his eye on Ginn for an extra half second. Those things mean the difference between Crabtree being open over the middle and a pick. Do these other players have useful skills? Absolutely, but none of them have proven to be a deep threat in the NFL. None have any significant NFL experience. And when you’re a coach deciding on the last roster spot, are you going to choose the guy with experience and a known skill or a guy with zero experience with potential?
9,999 times out of 10,000 a sensible coach will choose the veteran. Ginn is speedy, and he is the most experienced WR on our roster. Thus, it will be very, very, very hard for him to get cut in favor of Grant, Williams, Zeigler, and Hill. Sure, if he’s dropping everything and they’re all lighting it up, then he’ll get cut. But what’s the chance that an established player gets outplayed by 4 unproven players? Pretty darn slim.
I keep hearing how fast Ginn is….
reminds me of what we kept hearing about Darrius Heyward-Bey prior to the 2009 draft
Yeah, except Ginn isn’t an unproven draft pick. He is fast, NFL fast, and he has a proven track record of being able to use his speed in the NFL. Which is not something you could say for Darrius Heyward-Bey prior to the 2009 draft, and definitely not something you could say today.
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by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 24, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Zeigler
almost anyone who’s followed him knows he has great hands (something he’s known for) and that he runs great routes too (something that’s been reported).
I’m not really in favor of cutting Ginn, just saying it’s more than a 0.01% chance. He has to earn his spot is basically what I’m saying, and that’s EXACTLY what training camp is for. If he doesn’t impress in camp, i don’t care who the hell he is, was, or could be…he’s gone.
Same goes for Zeigler or anyone else who looks horrible in camp.
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
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Yeah
Sure, he’s got to earn his spot. So do Crabtree and Morgan.
But he’s got to earn his spot against rookies and guys who’ve barely hung onto their roster spots for a few years. Given that he’s the most experienced WR on our roster and that he has some useful skills, it is very, very, very unlikely that he’ll be outplayed by all of the other receivers fighting for that last roster spot.
Same goes for Zeigler or anyone else who looks horrible in camp.
Yes and no. If he really stinks it up, doesn’t catch anything, has lost a step, won’t go over the middle at all, etc. of course he’ll get cut. Again, same goes for Crabtree and Morgan. The difference between Ginn and and other guys who look horrible in camp is that the other guys don’t have the NFL experience for the coaches to fall back on in their evaluations. Coaches are going to be much more willing to give Ginn the benefit of the doubt if he has a bad camp than they will with Zeigler, Williams, Hill, or Grant. Zeigler and Hill have been around the organization for a few years, so they’ll get some leeway too, but that can cut both ways. If they aren’t showing improvement, they’ll get cut.
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 24, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I see it hard that Ginn would not make the team
but just like what Ginn has shown in the NFL, he has shown some pretty bad things too. Lack of hands, lack on consistency, and avoiding contact. So while Ginn has shown some positive things, don’t forget about the negative things he has shown in the NFL.
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jun 22, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
His draft position yes not taken into account
but his trade position perhaps. Do you get rid of the guy that you got as your fifth rounder and have your 6th rounder take his place and look on it that way or do you give him a year and see what he can do?
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Jun 26, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
a thought I just had
will Ginn survive the Nutcracker?!? For a guy who avoids contact I wonder how he’ll fare in this drill? He’s going to probably be matched up against a guy like Shawntae Spencer if it’s a defender, or another WR (and we know the rest of our WR’s are tough, cause you have to be to play here).
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
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Williams against Ginn in the nut
Both not wanting to flinch..it’s like watching that game of chicken in Rebel Without a Cause. LOL
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Jun 26, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
i'd take williams
that kid is scrappy. heck, Hill and Zeigler both played some special teams kick coverage…i can’t think of a guy on the team who isn’t very physical…heck even Alex Smith leveled Ellis, many pounds heavier than he. I’m thinking Andy Lee vs. Ginn.
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
Let's talk on Twitter
I like Williams too
Though I do like Hill as well. I like Ziggy but don’t see him having too much chance moving up the roster. ducks as NJ tries to hit me
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Jun 27, 2010 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions
duck again
He bit me in the neck and I’m a Zig-pire now too
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
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