My Way or the Highway: The implosion of the Denver Broncos
by smileyman on Jun 13, 2010 2:00 PM PDT
in San Francisco 49ers News
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PrintThis isn't going to be a very long or detailed post, just some thoughts hastily thrown together after the latest debacle from Josh McDaniels and the Denver Broncos.
Apparently they've sent a letter to Elvis Dumervil telling him that they're exercising their right to only give him a 10% pay raise if he doesn't sign his free agent tender by Monday. This isn't exactly an uncommon thing in the NFL (Marcus McNeill and Vincent Jackson of the Rams also received letters last week saying the same thing), but it's a troubling thing for the Denver Broncos.
According to reports Dumervil was planning on signing on Monday anyway, but now I have to wonder if he will. The team is playing hardball with him and if he holds out and says he doesn't want to play they'll have to get rid of him. Since McDaniels has been hired has head coach of the Broncos these are the players/personnell he's driven away.
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Jay Cutler
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Brandon Marshall (granted he always was outspoken but Shanahan managed to keep him mostly inline)
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Tony Scheffler (who never was in any trouble previously)
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Mike Nolan.
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Now possibly Elvis Dumervil
You've got to wonder how this is going to affect the Broncos performance in the future. Their QBs are Kyle Orton, Brady Quinn, and Tim Tebow--I'd be worried if I were them. They don't have a star wide receiver, and they don't have a star TE. Nolan took the Denver defense from 31st in DVOA (according to Football Outsiders), to 7th in one season. That's amazing.
And now they're playing hardball with their star defensive player.
I do understand discipline in the NFL--but these aren't high school or college players. They're grown men, and I think you have to earn the ability to say "My way or the highway". Bill Belichick has earned that ability. Josh McDaniels hasn't.
If I were Elvis Dumervil I would hold out and not sign my tender. I'd demand a trade because I can guarantee that there will be times lined up to pay him the money he deserves.
This is strictly speculation on my part, but I'd be surprised if Dumervil was still a Bronco when the season starts.
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Dumervil relationship with JMD and the fronto office is great
He WILL get a contract this season or next year if that’s the case, he’s the type of guy JMD just loves. They are having difficulties giving him a new contract because of the 30% rule. EVERY team with RFA unsigned is sending letters to them,
You can say things about JMD style , but relating that to Dumervil is ridiculous.
You probably don’t follow anything of the Broncos and when this story came up, you posted this…without knowing what REALLY is happening
How's this for information?
1) This type of letter is very common, as Mike Reiss over at ESPN Boston has reported on in detail. If teams DON’T send the letter, they risk losing certain rights and leverage under the CBA. And it is universally agreed by agents and teams alike that this isn’t much more than a pro forma move.
2) Josh McDaniels isn’t the GM, he’s the head coach.
3) Josh McDaniels took the Broncos from a team that most expected to finish near the cellar (he was, after all, brought in to REBUILD the team) to a playoff contender in his first year. For a rebuilding project, I’d say he’s done a pretty good job so far and he deserves at least a 3 year period to see if his methods work. After all, he turned journeyman Kyle Orton into a pretty good QB.
4) The returns on Jay Cutler were phenomenal. I think ex post facto, everyone would make that trade, given the relative performances of Cutler and Orton. You should consider the Marshall trade in this light as well.
5) Cutler and Marshall were considered clubhouse problems under Shanahan before McDaniels ever arrived, and it seems possible if not probable that Shanahan would have had similar problems dealing with those two, who both thought they were incredible football players (perhaps true) and deserving of long-term big-money contracts. Not sure how all the armchair GMs out here would deal with this, but paying two max contracts at QB and WR, when the rest of your team is declining and you need to reboot to be considered a serious contender again is not a recipe for a winning franchise.
You guys are being way too hard on McDaniels. I’m neither a Broncos fan nor hater, but they were not going to be winners by just keeping that 2008 team, giving huge, crippling contracts to Cutler and Marshall, and hoping the rest of that squad could be turned around with scotch tape and band aids. I think it was pretty clear that McDaniels was brought in to rebuild that team, not to continue it, and I think he’s done a pretty good job so far of capturing value, making the team younger, and turning the ship around. If you look at things in that light, I’d say the jury’s still out, but signs so far are good (I’m dubious on Tebow myself, but otoh, if McDaniels could turn Orton into a league average or better QB, you gotta give him some credit there).
Agreed... and in addition to number 4, Shanahan planned to cut Marshall.
PFT reported it, here.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on Jun 13, 2010 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Meant in addition to number 5, not 4.
I’m having a rough typing night. :)
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on Jun 13, 2010 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not the moves themselves that I'm questioning
but the way that they were done and the attitude that McDaniels gives off.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
2 final things
1) It wasn’t McDaniels who would have sent the letter, it’s Xanders. Perhaps McDaniels is involved, but there’s nothing you posted that would indicate that. This post sounds like you have a problem with McDaniels and are willing to ascribe any negative Denver actions to him. Hardly fair.
2) This is the link to the Reiss analysis on the letter. http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4679408/adding-context-to-mankins-letter
“I spoke with one player agent and solicited an informed opinion, and this is what I learned.
When teams send the letter, it is usually done as a procedural matter to keep that option on the table. If the letter is not sent, teams would no longer have that option to reduce a restricted free agent’s salary, and that would willingly be giving up negotiating leverage."
I am not sure you can say that the Broncos were going to finish in the cellar
when they were 8-8 in Shanahan’s last year. So in rebuilding, McDaniels kept them the same. I am not sure how you can say that is a win for McDaniels when he had plenty of talent to work with already. He did not inherit a bad team. I question how you can say he made the team younger with last year’s FA signings of Brian Dawkins, Renaldo Hill, Andre Goodman, Andra Davis (cut after 2009 season), and Buckhalter. He then went and got Jamal Williams, Justin Bannan, and Jarvis Green this off-season. While many of those players did play well, I don’t think those moves made the team younger.
I agree with both the Cutler and Marshall trades though. With the kind of compensation they got, I would have made both those trades. However, draft picks do not necessarily make the team better.
I would also say that McDaniels only made Orton slightly better as Orton had a pretty good season in his last year with the Bears. So his better numbers may be just a better offense around him.
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jun 13, 2010 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Orton
The only improvement in Orton was having receivers to throw to. He was always at least average in Chicago. I wouldn’t credit any of that to McDaniels. The credit would need to go to the better offense like you mentioned.
(this is mostly in response to Boo-urns)
"If you don't love it, leave it! USA, number one!" - Ricky Stanzi
by Haggardninja on Jun 14, 2010 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL, that was his best season of his career. McDaniels had a lot to do with that.
You’ll see the numbers are about the same without the number one target.
Black Sand Ninja!!!
you're wrong
the only improvement Orton had was that one time he cut that ugly ass redneck mullet off.
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
Let's talk on Twitter
Actually
I follow the Broncos quite a bit. I live in Idaho which is mostly Bronco country. My wife and her family are all huge Broncos fans.
McDaniel has established a reputation for alienating his players.
I also specfically mentioned that the letter isn’t unusual and that other players received it too—but it’s also something that a team can choose not to send if they’re planning on any kind of extension.
BTW, Dumervil’s salary last year was $537,000. Patrick Willis’ salary last year was about $600,000, yet the Niners managed to get a deal done for him.
Teams don’t have excuses, not after Patrick Willis’ deal.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Yes, the 49ers front office was genious in getting Willis deal done. The teams are cathing up with them. Let them have time before criticizing.
I just want to make one thing clear
Do you think the Broncos are playing hardball? Do you think it is right move to play hardball?
Other than Patrick Willis, Jahri Evans (now highest paid guard) and Antoine Bethea have already received extensions with the 30% rule in place.
Since Dumervil has been productive in his career and not a one year wonder, I question the move of McDaniels here.
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jun 13, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions
They're not
this article is dumb. As Mike Reiss of ESPN and others have repeatedly noted, this is basically a pro forma move to preserve the team’s rights. If they don’t do it, they lose all leverage if negotiations break down. Nobody considers this a hardball move except lazy media dudes and apparently some bloggers.
Whether or not it's pro-forma
which I already said it was, it’s insulting to a player of Duemrvil’s status who had already stated that he was planning on signing his tender.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
The reason I question the move
is because I do not see the benefits of sending the letter. Dumervil had already signed an injury waiver, has been practicing with the team, and said he would sign no later than Monday. As it stands, Dumervil will make $3.168 mil on his current RFA tender, which is less than what he deserves. Pushing a deadline on top of that and reducing his pay seems counterproductive. So maybe I am missing something here. What leverage would the Broncos lose if they kept the current tender and decided not to reduce the RFA tender? Dumervil is a team player and class act, so he may not be insulted by the letter. He is a pass rush specialist so he should receive some good money even though he was not that great in run support in his first year as an OLB. So would you say it would be fair that he received a contract extension by training camp, start of the season, or next year? And would you say that he is top 3, top 5, top 10 3-4 OLB and should receive top-(3/5/10) money?
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jun 13, 2010 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I respect your opinion, but I'm going to have to disagree again.
McDaniel has established a reputation for alienating his players.
True, but I’m not so sure that the reputation is factually based. It is fair to say that he has alienated players that are me-first guys or guys that aren’t putting forth effort. However, if you look at the core group of players (Champ, Dawkins, Orton, etc) they love him. They love playing for this guy. Jarvis Green even said, in his introductory press conference, that the number one reason he came to Denver was because he could play under coach McD.
I also specfically mentioned that the letter isn’t unusual and that other players received it too—but it’s also something that a team can choose not to send if they’re planning on any kind of extension.
That’s true, but I think we’re viewing the tone of this letter under a certain bias. For all we know, the letter was sent sort of like a reminder that a dentist would send you in the mail that says “Hey, remember that you’ve got a dental cleaning on thursday”. It isn’t sent as a threat, it is just a reminder of the landscape of the contract situation.
Even if he does sign the tender, it doesn’t mean that he won’t get a big long term deal. Like I said in my comment below, Chris Kuper signed a tender a month or two ago and he just got a 6 year deal at the beginning of June.
I just think that this thing is getting blown way out of proportion.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on Jun 13, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s the whole “me-first guys” label which is the problem. McDaniels essentially is Joe McCarthy labeling these guys communist without trial before sending them out of town.
You're right. Me-first is a blanket term, but each of them were different situations.
The four names that smileyman mentioned in his piece (Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, and Nolan) weren’t labeled as… insert label here. They just were what they were.
Cutler was traded because he could deal with the idea that he wasn’t irreplaceable (we listened to a trade offer and apparently that isn’t kosher in Cutler’s mind). Throw in the fact that he wouldn’t return any phone calls or text messages and we are looking at an irreparable situation where the QB hates the team he is playing for. He had to go.
With Marshall, it was all about the money. They couldn’t arrive at a price because the Broncos wouldn’t invest in Marshall because of the possibility of another off the field incident. He’s looking at a year long suspension if he gets in trouble again. Marshall also wanted a front loaded contract, but the Broncos wanted a back loaded contract so they could see if he was going to behave. Obviously, he didn’t behave because he was throwing tantrums and kicking balls all over the practice field.
Scheffler said, during one of the practices, that he “couldn’t wait for the season to be over”. As a fan, that is one of the most disgusting phrases that I could ever hear from a player. I’m glad that he was booted. I’m actually embarrassed that I have his jersey hanging in my closet right now.
Nolan was a little different. During the Indy game, he wasn’t running something the way McD wanted and it caused the Broncos to fall 3 scores behind the Colts. Words were exchanged and at the end of the season they mutually decided to part ways. Nolan wanted more control. McD didn’t want to give him as much control as he wanted, which is within his rights as a head coach. It just didn’t work out.
Again, it probably was another poor choice of words when I said “me-first” guys. Each of the situations was different and each of those situations was handled differently and to use one blanket term is probably irresponsible, but I couldn’t think of another short label to describe them. For that, I apologize. I was hoping not to go into detail about each one, but I probably should have led with it.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on Jun 13, 2010 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Cutler—it wasn’t so much that you listened to a trade offer. Rather it was that the Broncos iniatiated the offer (big difference there), and then denied it to Cutler and his agent. To compound it McDaniels did a lousy job of covering up.
Marshall—I agree about that it was about the money, but you’ve got to pay your top players or you won’t keep them.
Scheffler—I don’t believe Scheffler said anything like that. He’s never, ever had a problem before McDaniels came along. If he did say that I would say it was a reflection of his head coach.
Nolan—If a guy takes your defense from 31st to 7th in one season you probably ought to give a little more control to him.
This attitude here:
McD didn’t want to give him as much control as he wanted, which is within his rights as a head coach.
is the attitude that I’m speaking of with the title to this post, and I don’t think McDaniels has earned the right to play hardball.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Believe what you want to believe.
Cutler – The Broncos were approached by the patriots, listened to the offer, took some time to think it over, someone leaked, Cutler was infuriated, the Broncos called back about a trade offer and KC had already done the deal. Then we were left with a whining QB that all but forced his way out.
Scheffler – It is unimportant what you believe he said. The captains came to McD and told him that they didn’t want Scheffler playing because he wasn’t showing enough effort. McD was not in charge of this decision. He heeded the advice of the team captains and left Scheffler on the bench.
Nolan – This point is much easier to make when I’m talking with Chiefs fans. Having a historically good defense in the first 6 weekends can account for that “7th ranked defense” you are referring to. However, giving up 250+ yards rushing in the final game of the season against the kansas city chiefs is hardly considered good. That’s just my opinion anyways. The only difference between the 31st ranked defense in 2008 and the 7th ranked defense in 2009 was the extremely good play in week 1 through 6. In 2008, we were just bad the whole way through.
The attitude you speak of is what divides Broncos country to this day. A lot of people are still of that opinion, which is fine. You have every right to think that. It’s logical. I don’t share that opinion though. I think his moves were bold, for sure, but I’m not sure that all of those decisions deserved the animosity that they received.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on Jun 13, 2010 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Giving Nolan anything besides control of a defense
is a turrrrrible mistake
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jun 14, 2010 1:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Well since their ...
… blees’d enough to have gotten Tebow, think’n that’s enough bleesing for one team …Elvis should walk …!!
Kewl
A head coach
should act like the man in charge, i.e. Singletary.
Not like that wimp from Minnesota.
That little rant by Childress pissed me off
He was reaming out AP for missing OTA’s, but he’s not gonna say a word to Brett Favre about missing them. Can’t have it both ways bucko.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
this
besides, c’mon, it’s Adrian freaking Peterson. He’s in your top 3 players on the team, and is a model player on and off the field. So he missed some mini-camp. You think it’s really going to hurt anything? And what was it Childress said about Gerhart too? Something about graduation?!? He wasn’t asking Toby to miss graduation was he?
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
Let's talk on Twitter
Pride cometh before the fall
McDaniels is turning the organization on its head by alienating established leaders while projecting a self-assuredness that has long crossed into arrogance.
He seems to be obsessed with winning mind games and demonstrating his unquestioned authority. You can’t keep alienating and getting rid of good players and expect anything good to come of that.
I notice that that seems to be a recurrring theme in the Bellichick coaching tree – see Mangini in Cleveland and Pioli in Kansas City.
by One.Cool.Customer on Jun 13, 2010 2:36 PM PDT reply actions
I am not sure about the Pioli connection here
I do not recall him alienating anyone other than the media. Also, his role is a different as a GM and not a coach.
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jun 13, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
wait wait wait
McDaniels is turning the organization on its head by alienating established leaders while projecting a self-assuredness that has long crossed into arrogance.
just who are these leaders?
Jay Cutler?- I sit off to the side by myself when I’m on the bench?
Brandon Marshall?- after my 100 catches I’m gonna dog it?
Certianly not guy like Dawkins, Bailey Orton who are the emotional and field leaders of this team?
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
by Jon Tollerud on Jun 17, 2010 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions
This isn't a huge issue, you guys.
Check out this quote from McDaniels from a June 8th, just a few days ago.
"When it gets done, it progresses really fast and everybody is content with the result and when it’s not done, while you’re working on it, everybody can say what they want. We’re going to continue to work. We know what we want and we know what they want and we’re trying to make it happen."
Isn’t this a bold (and accurate, given all the media backlash,) prediction?
…while you’re working on it, everybody can say what they want.
The MSM have to put up pieces every day and sometimes they have filler articles to fill the spaces, but I couldn’t find any indication of animosity between Doom and the Broncos in those reports. The same way that reports flooded the internet saying that “Ayers was in the doghouse”, sometimes the media spits out an article that isn’t true, but gets bounced around to the point that it becomes accepted as truth.
Doom has stated time and again that he isn’t going to make a big fuss about this. The deal will get done when it gets done (see Broncos Guard Chris Kuper who got a 6 year deal earlier in the month after signing his tender a few months ago).
Until the deal gets done, we can talk, debate, worry, doubt, and hit each other with sticks but it doesn’t mean that any of it is worthwhile because things happen behind closed curtains. We have no reason to assume that the Broncos and Doom are or aren’t in contract discussions. These letters that are sent out are just an NFL protocol that are used by every team. Once a deal is in place, this letter becomes null and void and we move on with our lives.
With that said, if Doom comes out with a statement and says he’s pissed all of a sudden like San Diego’s Jackson and McNeil, then we have a whole new story. But since that hasn’t happened (and Doom said it won’t), I think we’re still in good shape to get a Doom deal finished.
In my opinion, the MSM is just causing a stir, once again, to paint McDaniels as some sort of lunatic with no idea what he’s doing. Clearly, that agenda is working because most of the people are being spoon fed these ideas about the Broncos that haven’t proven to be true, to this point. It doesn’t matter either way because we’re going to have to go out on sunday and play just like every other team in the NFL.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
Should be "from June 8th", not "from a June 8th"
Pardon my lack of editing.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on Jun 13, 2010 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
The article isn't painting McDaniels as a lunatic
that’s me that’s doing that.
The article I linked to was pretty straightforward—I’m the one drawing the conclusions.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Well, at least your honest about it. :)
We talked about this DP article a few days ago at the MileHighReport and some members drew similar opinions as you. It was knee jerk, at first, but things usually begin that way because of the initial shock of a breaking story. At first, it seems like the Broncos are playing “hardball”, but there is much more opinion than fact in that article, if you really sift through it.
If you really pay attention to the article, you’ll find that there are zero quotes. There aren’t even instances of paraphrasing, as DP articles often do. It is all based on the opinion of Mike Klis. Doom wasn’t quoted. McDaniels wasn’t quoted. There is no indication that Doom won’t be a Bronco. There is no indication that the negotiations are at a stand still. In fact, Doom had an interview yesterday and said his agent and the Broncos are still deep in contract negotiations right now.
When you said…
This is strictly speculation on my part, but I’d be surprised if Dumervil was still a Bronco when the season starts.… I don’t see how you can draw that conclusion. If he signs his tender on monday (and he said he would do this), then he’ll be a Bronco at the beginning of the season. Basically, you are saying that Elvis Dumervil is lying. I don’t see how that would benefit him, at this point.
Your admission that you’re painting McDaniels as a lunatic is a direct result of the MSM spoon feeding information and you gobbling it up. You really have to pay attention, nowadays, when the MSM (the DP, especially) writes a story about the Broncos. There is almost always an anti-McD spin on it, which isn’t always deserved but it sure does draw ratings. It pretty much helped keep the NFL Network afloat during last summer, didn’t it?
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on Jun 13, 2010 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Hold on now
Your admission that you’re painting McDaniels as a lunatic is a direct result of the MSM spoon feeding information and you gobbling it up. You really have to pay attention, nowadays, when the MSM (the DP, especially) writes a story about the Broncos. There is almost always an anti-McD spin on it, which isn’t always deserved but it sure does draw ratings. It pretty much helped keep the NFL Network afloat during last summer, didn’t it?
AS I’ve said elsewhere I follow the Broncos pretty closely. I regularly read MHR, I have family that are huge Bronco fans, I see plenty of games. MSM has nothing to do with these conclusions—these are my conclusions based on the behavior I’ve observed of McDaniels.
You’re welcome to draw your own conclusions but don’t try and belittle me by saying that I’m being spoon-fed mine.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
I apologize for calling you out, smileyman.
You are coming up with ideas that aren’t directly spoonfed MSM ideas. It was probably a poor choice of words on my part and I apologize for that. I realize your ideas and I appreciate the mental effort it took to arrive at those conclusions. That said, anytime you reference another article, it means you read that piece, took those ideas into account and either expounded on those ideas, used it to legitimize an idea that you had or reference it so that you can refute a disagreement you had with that author to arrive at an opinion of your own. It seemed to me like you took the DP piece and expounded on it, which is fine, but please consider the source of that piece.
I respect your opinions. I really do. It still doesn’t make me agree with them, which is perfectly acceptable. People have a difference of opinion sometimes. I’m no stranger to that. People disagree with me all the time, but it’s nothing personal. I just question whether your conclusion at the end is based on anything that has been said by Dumervil or McDaniels.
Mike Klis just has to find something to write about during the slow time in the offseason so he can keep his 9 to 5 job. In my opinion (take it for what it’s worth… free), he is using this article to stir the pot. From what little research I did, Klis was the first person to “report” this story (cough…opinion…cough) and then it picked up steam and became fact, somehow.
Again, I apologize for my tone from before. I am still curious about your final sentence and how you arrived at the conclusion that Doom will not be a Bronco at the beginning of the season.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on Jun 13, 2010 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Again, I apologize for my tone from before. I am still curious about your final sentence and how you arrived at the conclusion that Doom will not be a Bronco at the beginning of the season.
1.) Dumervil still hasn’t signed his tender
2.) It appears, based on the limited information we have, that there have been no significant talks to extend him.
3.) I believe a letter like this is a slap in the face, no matter how pro forma it is, especially when the player in question had previously stated he would sign his tender on Monday.
I believe that Josh McDaniels seriously lacks social skills in managing his players. He could probably smooth this over easily enough with a simple phone call, but based on his handling of the Jay Cutler situation I can’t see that happening.
It’s not just about money for players, though that’s definitely a huge part of it. It’s about pride, and salary is one way of determining social status in the NFL. Insult a player bad enough and he’ll not want to play for you (again, see Jay Cutler last year).
One final note. I think that McDaniels is trying to build the Broncos into a team that mirrors the Patriots. It seems to me that he’s wanting to get rid of the stars and play with solid players and maybe one or two stars that toe company line. Problem is I don’t think he’s got the chops to pull that off yet. He might get there, but he’s definitely not there yet.
We’ll know more on Monday—if Dumervil signs his tender then we can say that my speculation is nonsense. If he doesn’t sign it then we have a very interesting situation developing.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
You're right about the first one.
Not so sure about the other two. In Dumervil’s interview on friday, he didn’t say what kind of progress was being made, but he said “you’d have to ask Gary (his agent)”. McDaniels, on the other hand, had this to say…
On whether the team could lower their offer to Dumervil as time goes on
“I’m not going to get into this. We have plenty of time here in the next couple days. I’m sure everything is going to play out fine.”
On the progress of contract talks with LB Elvis Dumervil
“Same thing, we’ll be in communication with Gary (his agent) and keep working towards what we’re all (striving towards). It’s hard to gauge (the status). You have conversations with him and sometimes they feel better than others, but ultimately nobody really cares until it gets done. When it gets done, it progresses really fast and everybody is content with the result and when it’s not done, while you’re working on it, everybody can say what they want. We’re going to continue to work. We know what we want and we know what they want and we’re trying to make it happen.”
For number 3, even though you would probably take offense to it, McDaniels said that there wasn’t anything meant by it.
On the Broncos’ written correspondence with DumervilDoom may or may not have been hurt by it. He hasn’t said that he was. He has, however, been to every OTA even though he isn’t under contract. I think that he’ll still get his long term deal, but he’ll sign his tender just so he can participate in the activities in the mean time.
“There’s the normal policy and procedure with the CBA. We’re certainly not unique in that at all. There are so many teams that have done that. We’d like to have all our players under contract in training camp. There’s certainly no message sent with that at all. Hopefully, like I said, we’re working with Gary to get something done. It has nothing to do with (sending a message). We’d like to have everybody under contract at training camp. It’s simple.”
Also, keep in mind that McDaniels isn’t doing the negotiating. That falls in the lap of GM Brian Xanders.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on Jun 13, 2010 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Your speculation was indeed nonsense
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
When that "At least we're not the Denver Broncos" article comes...
it could just be one line saying: Thankfully, Josh McDaniels isn’t the coach of the 49ers.
That would do quite nicely.
"Lord, beer me strength."
I don't know about McDaniels.
Going from Jay Cutler and Brandon Marshall to Tim Tebow and Demaryious Thomas doesn’t seem like a step in the right direction when they could’ve had Jimmy Clausen and Dez Bryant. Sometimes you need to take talent over yes-men.
Also trading a 2010 1st rounder last year for Alphonso Smith (hope I got that right) was rather dumb.
I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff
It's official: I'm a Buster Posey fan..... Who isn't?
by Hoopers Judge on Jun 13, 2010 5:57 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Cutler threw 30 INTs last year
Anybody is a step up.
by ericalancanty on Jun 13, 2010 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes he did.
He also has no O-Line in Chicago and not a lot of weapons. And it’s only going to get worse with Martz there. Probably going to break the “most sacks given up in a season” record.
I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff
It's official: I'm a Buster Posey fan..... Who isn't?
by Hoopers Judge on Jun 13, 2010 8:27 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
All of those 7 step drops just get QBs killed.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
I can't stand fair-weather/bandwagon fans, stick with your team, throughout the good and the bad. And don't switch to whichever team wins the Super Bowl each year.
Trust me, we Niner fans know all about Martz.
I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff
It's official: I'm a Buster Posey fan..... Who isn't?
by Hoopers Judge on Jun 13, 2010 8:40 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
say what you want
cutler is gonna be a beast fantasy qb next year.
He's going to put up large #'s with Martz.
But if he gets sacked 5-6 times a game, he my not play the entire season.
I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff
It's official: I'm a Buster Posey fan..... Who isn't?
by Hoopers Judge on Jun 14, 2010 12:08 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
*may, not my.
I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff
It's official: I'm a Buster Posey fan..... Who isn't?
by Hoopers Judge on Jun 14, 2010 12:09 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
What this really comes down to is.....
Players having too much control. In how many other professions do workers set the standard that they get paid at? Players come and go, even Montana and Rice got replaced at some point in their careers. The players salaries are so high it drives the ticket costs to unbelievable amounts. I know that McD has caused alot of problems with people but the Owners and the Coaches DO and SHOULD have all the control. If owners simply said no more often without bending and having other owners say yes (Jerry Jones) and supported eachother, then they could get control of this issue. Players complain about the amount of money that the owners make, but they are the owners, they are the risk takers. Cutler was just a cry baby, Marshall is a Diva and selfish, and Dumervil had one great season and doesn’t share the risk of over paying other players (JaMarcus Russell)
Yeah, yeah, different team, but if an owner makes a mistake and loses millions on that mistake, players like Dumervil don’t have to pay for that mistake. Owners should step up and take control.
I believe baseball tried that in the 80's.....
Its called collusion and if proven in court would cost owners even more money. We an see from MLB’s example that didn’t work and in alot of ways baseball is still paying for those mistakes.
by KingsAs49erSharks on Jun 13, 2010 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not collusion if the owner set a standard pay scale.
What screws it up is all the owners will say “we will not pay that guy that kind of money if you don’t” and then one goes back on his word. Is Haynesworth worth 100 million? Hell no! AZ cut Rolle to try to sign him to less money and the Giants swept up and handed him more money than he is worth. Now Goldson wants that kind of moey and he is not worth it either. I like Goldson and think he has great up-side, but he is not worth that kind of money. Overpaying the athlete is screwing over the fans.
by ericalancanty on Jun 13, 2010 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions
What you're describing is in fact very much like what the baseball owners did...
And legally, it’s defined as collusion. If a standard wage scale could be negotiated with the player’s assn., then it might be doable, but I’m thinking that would be impossible to negotiate.
Ummmm......
Why in the hell are we talking about the Denver Donkies in a 49er Forum!?!??!?!?! Is it that slow of a news day? And yes I do hate the Broncos.
by KingsAs49erSharks on Jun 13, 2010 7:23 PM PDT reply actions
Because it's football
and should Dumervil not sign (long shot, I know), he might be available for a trade, and the Niners might be interested in a monster OLB sack machine.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
I thought he was going to be great during that 6-0 start.
Now I think he is ruining the entire franchise. McDaniels seems to want to send any player who actually has talent out of town.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
I can't stand fair-weather/bandwagon fans, stick with your team, throughout the good and the bad. And don't switch to whichever team wins the Super Bowl each year.
McDaniels...
will be fired by the 12th week this year
I think I said this in one of the other fanshots on here or some other blog
But it seems like Belichick is just sending people out to ruin other teams after they take over as coaches.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
I can't stand fair-weather/bandwagon fans, stick with your team, throughout the good and the bad. And don't switch to whichever team wins the Super Bowl each year.
McDaniels is fine, but he made a huge mistake letting go of Nolan. if Nolan wanted mroe control he was off his rocker.
He had control in SF and blew a gasket. McDaniels will make Tebow a star.
Black Sand Ninja!!!
Give Tebow 2 years and he will be a great leader.
Given time to learn the offense and not run for his life will allow Tebow to ease into his role of starting QB.
by ericalancanty on Jun 13, 2010 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Tebow might be a great leader
but it will be as a gunner on Special Teams cause he doesn’t have the talent to be an NFL QB
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jun 14, 2010 1:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow...
Can he be a Niner plz? We can swap him for Lawson and give him the money Manny is looking for. How bout that?
Gimme 1 round!
I'd take that, maybe
how’s Dumervil in coverage? He’s a little short too right? Covering tall TE’s possibly a problem? Haven’t followed him to be honest.
17 sacks is 17 sacks though. Someone made the argument “but where did the Broncos end up? Did those 17 sacks get them to the playoffs?”
Well, how many fewer wins would they have had WITHOUT those 17 sacks?
"I will speak at times, when it's necessary, but I don't believe in talking just because you can." - P-52
Let's talk on Twitter
I'll tell you what we could do with a 17 sack OLB
We could have a secondary that 17 plays out of the year doesn’t have to give up a big 1st down or a touchdown instead of getting sliced and diced as per the status quo.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jun 14, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
sorry just had to point this out...They play for the Chargers not the Rams..
Marcus McNeill and Vincent Jackson of the Rams also received letters last week saying the same thing
It's amazing how the McDaniels haters...
…carry over to another team and another Conference. This post is junk. Purely, uneducated rubbish. This post is not even worthy of a response…except to say it’s junk.
Vinny Gambini: "Ms. Vito, Can you tell the court what this is a picture of?"
Ms. Vito: "Ya know what it's of"
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by Bronco_Fan_Tom on Jun 16, 2010 12:58 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
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