Vuvuzelas vs. Qwest Field
Fooch's Note: Given that the World Cup is going on (I'm listening to these things right now as Portugal and the Ivory Coast are battling), I think this is an interesting topic to discuss. Particularly in light of stadiums doing what they can to enclose more noise.
Wikipedia defines the vuvuzela ( /vuːvuːˈzeɪlə/) as "a blowing horn up to approximately 1 m (3 ft 3 in) in length. It is commonly blown by fans at football (aka. Soccer) matches in South Africa." For those of you that aren't watching the World Cup right now, they are a constant back drop to the games. You can barely hear the announcers, and I know of some people that are muting their TVs during the game so they don't have to listen to it.
Players are complaining they are unable to hear their team mates, and some fans are complaining that they just plain can't hear. Soccer purists complain that there isn't the tradition chanting, singing, and roaring that is normally heard at games. However on the flip side there isn't as much cursing and verbal abuse either. Right now the soccer gods are looking to ban the vuvuzela for the rest of the tournament.
Noise levels at the stadiums have reached 144 decibels, equivalent to the sound made by a passenger jet. I have also looked at some sound levels at football stadiums. The loudest college stadium is ‘Tiger Stadium' LSU, which has reached 130 decibels. In fact if you google ‘Earthquake Game' there was one time when fans were cheering so loud it registered on the Richter Scale. Arrowhead Stadium has reached 116 decibels.
But here is how it plays into the 49ers. Qwest field was designed to be loud. How loud you ask? Well in 2005 there were 95-false start penalties, which was the most in the NFL. In fact you read about teams getting ready for games there, not only is there crowd noise being played during warm-ups, but teams also practice with ear plugs in... so they definitely can't hear. According to Popular Mechanics Qwest Field has reached 135 decibels.
So should the Vuvuzelas be banned from soccer games? Or should players just suck it up and consider it ‘atmosphere'? Should fans at Qwest Field be told to stop cheering? What do you think?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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We knew this was coming and brought it upon ourselves.
Keep the horns, the complaining from the players is delicious.
It's not easy being Green..
Stalk me on Twitter!
tolerance levels
apparently, women are better able to tolerate the noise from the vuvuzelas than men. they’re not sure whether it’s linked to testosterone levels or estrogen levels or something else, but pregnant women are able to tolerate the noise better than non-pregnant women, and androgynous men are better able to tolerate the noise than non-androgynous men.
I can’t back this up with any science, but I’ve heard women hear at a higher tonal range than men.
by hellaninersfan on Jun 15, 2010 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I became more ...
… tolerate to different noise level’s after Five yr’s of marriage and two kid’s …!!
Kewl
And practually ...
… a deaf mute after 20 yr’s of marriage and have gone through the teenage year’s …!!
Kewl
Takes away from the chants and songs
That’s one of the fun parts of the game where the fans of each team get to go back and forth with their chants and songs in support of their teams and now it’s just getting drowned out with an incessant buzzing. It’s honestly just an annoyance and has nothing to do with “tradition” as the head FIFA guy mentioned. I would be just as against it if the Scots decided to play a single note on their bag pipes during the entire game.
Thats so american want 2 telivise it make money off of it and at the same time ''tell them what they can do and their tradition
in their world’’,yes thats so american go snatch it ,and you thought ‘’the brawl at the palace’‘was a spectacule you would have that ’’ times thousands’’trust that son,america gives us this arrogance 2 think we can tell everyone ’’what the ( bleep ) 2 do !
by jayjonna415 on Jun 15, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions
was that words?
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
uhmmmm
que?
A man's life is described either by his actions, words, or even the people who he loves and loves him.
it's a cultural thing
and by taking away a cultural thing at the World Cup doesn’t work for me
Giving you all the 49ers info you need at the San Francisco 49ers Examiner
That's my site. Check it out!
Oh yeah.
The South Africans have been making cheap plastic horns for centuries.
I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff
It's official: I'm a Buster Posey fan..... Who isn't?
by Hoopers Judge on Jun 15, 2010 12:36 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
The arguments for are dumb
1) It’s not cultural, these things were invented in the 1990s. It’s as cultural as airhorns.
2) It’s not the same as decibel levels at Qwest, because it’s a CONSTANT noise. The cheers at Qwest reach high volumes when the opposing team has the ball in key situations, and is part of the home field advantage. The problem with the vuvuzeulas is that they effectively cancel out any homefield advantage that might exist. As we saw in the South Korea and Japan games, even a sparsely populated crowd can create deafening noise with these things. The reason this cancels out HFA is that if you have 2/3 of the stadium composed of say English fans who traveled down to cheer on their team, they effectively get canceled out by the 1/3 who are just constantly blowing on these things. It’s stupid, and it’s basically the same as just blasting deafening music during the whole game. You can’t hear cheers, you can’t hear boos, you can’t hear anything except these horns.
South Africa should ban these things, now that FIFA won’t. I can guarantee you South Africa, and probably no southern African country, will host the World Cup again any time in the foreseeable future.
Completely agree
And to add, the players sometimes can’t hear a whistle from the ref because of the vuvuzelas, which leads to a booking if they try to continue play. It’s ridiculous.
when will the Kenny Thomas Reign of Terror end?!!??
by diehardkingsfan5 on Jun 15, 2010 9:46 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Who gives damm!! I'm surprise we have so many soccer fans (BS) why don't we get some american anouncers while
we at right you think that work,hey honey grab a couple of american anouncers on your way back?
by jayjonna415 on Jun 15, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Umm...
I’m not really sure what you are trying to say after ‘who gives a damn’. If you were serious about American announcers, John Harkes has been doing a couple of the games and he is American.
by Florida Johnny on Jun 15, 2010 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions
let's be honest: they've got bigger problems than plastic horns
With soccer hooligans, you never know what they’re carrying. If they’d ban the vuvuzelas and systematically seize them from the fans at the gates, the number of guns and knives that make it into the stadium would go up. Pretty tough to kill someone with a vuvuzela—much less tough with a gun or a knife…
I'm just not sure how much worse what Vick did than what "Ben" did. Glad he's not a Niner.
Haha
You’ve got to be kidding. How the hell do you think people could get away with carrying guns and knives into the biggest event in earth? Are you that naiive to think there’s no security at all?
when will the Kenny Thomas Reign of Terror end?!!??
by diehardkingsfan5 on Jun 15, 2010 9:44 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
FIFA has to be motivated to getting people into the stadium without massive delays
so sheer pragmatism would drive them to do their regular checks—but for the things that matter.
So I’m saying that of course there’s security, but that it doesn’t make sense for that security to be loaded down with extra duties…like seizing vuvuzelas.
I'm just not sure how much worse what Vick did than what "Ben" did. Glad he's not a Niner.
a 1m long plastic horn
isn’t exactly the easiest thing to hide. Plus security inside can confiscate ones that make it through the door.
Double plus, do you really think that they’d be able to do any sort of pat down that has any chance whatsoever of finding a gun/knife and NOT find one of these things?
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
The issue isn't 'finding the horns'
it’s the stink all the fans will put up about losing their precious horns. When you’ve got 6 fans upset and yelling at 3 security guards about the horns, it’s pretty easy for the 7th to sneak in with a weapon.
I'm just not sure how much worse what Vick did than what "Ben" did. Glad he's not a Niner.
So youre saying in africa the africas carry alot of guns and knives?
by jayjonna415 on Jun 15, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm just the messenger here:
South Africa is #2 in murders per capita:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita
I'm just not sure how much worse what Vick did than what "Ben" did. Glad he's not a Niner.
Honestly
soccer hooligans, let alone massive crowds, make security important at events like these. i think the number of international fans that enter a country for world cup would dwarf anything else in the sporting world.
"Son, I'm going to break you like a wild horse." - Mike Singletary
Players should suck it up
It’s like in basketball when the fans behind the basket make a huge racket trying to distract the free throw shooter, or in football when coaches try to “ice” the kicker.
It’s part of the game, deal with it.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
no, it's not
it’s totally artificial, and it’s annoying as all hell too. I don’t want to sound like I’m in a damn beehive while I’m watching the world cup.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I find the chants of Ole, Ole Ole annoying
should they be banned too?
Some people are annoyed by fans standing up during the game. Should that also be banned?
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
no
neither of those things are constant throughout the game.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Sure they are
some people stand up the entire game.
some people chant the entire game
some people wave flags the entire game
All of those are annoying to one person or another. Doesn’t mean they should be banned.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
some people != a constant 120-145dB buzz that interferes with play.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
How does a horn interfere with play?
does it affect a player’s ability to kick a ball? with a keeper’s ability to block the ball?
I think it’s ridiculous to complain about it
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
It affects team’s abilities to communicate, and also affects their ability to hear the officials. I have less sympathy with their ability to communicate being impaired, because that happens to away teams in most sports, however, in other sports, there is a way to escape it, at least temporarily
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
all i hear
are excuses. who cares!!!!! if they have horns or whatever makes a loud noise it doesnt matter!!! futbol fans and football fans are two seperate type of creatures….dont believe me. go to europe or latin america and tell me how they act when you get 2 rival teams or just a big match going. the stadium is NEVER quiet.
so in saying this. get the sand out of your P^$$!#s and grow some balls. there will always be fan noise and the louder the more interesting it gets. stop whining and enjoy the match
A man's life is described either by his actions, words, or even the people who he loves and loves him.
I repeat
the players sometimes can’t hear a whistle from the ref because of the vuvuzelas, which leads to a booking if they try to continue play.
This is how it affects the players.
when will the Kenny Thomas Reign of Terror end?!!??
by diehardkingsfan5 on Jun 15, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
How many times has it happened?
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Jun 18, 2010 1:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Standing actually is banned ...
… in all-seater British soccer/football stadiums. Just that nobody takes any notice of the rule and stands anyway.
LondonNiner - member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010.
Wich one is more irratating those horns their blowing or those cow bells the sacremento kings fans use 2 use?
by jayjonna415 on Jun 15, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
horns
the cowbells weren’t constant throughout the game. However, it’s funny you bring that up, since the cowbells are now banned from Arco.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Aren't you impressed that a fan can stand up 2 or 3hrs straight ''and blow a horn''i knew a girl who
could for ‘’2 or 3 hrs blow a horn’‘but she wasn’t standing.’’you naughty boy lol
''Pull your skirts up and play ball i'm really trying 2 give this sport a chance espicially when you can watch a 3 hour game
2 watch it go 2 a 0-0 draw WTF?But i see what people say about ’’america’’we complain 2 much espicially when we love a ‘’sport thats 1 of the most violent sports out’‘and we crying about horns?Now you got ’’idiots’’saying some fans out there ‘’pack guns and knives’‘now you got dudes sayig ’’south africa is the num.1 murder capital’’ooh really.Whats next don’t let fans in with ‘’dreadlocks and saggy pants’‘.You just can’t win out here (bleep) enjoying the exsperience of watching the game we pick something minor and complain about it and if thats not enough we pick apart ’’’their country’’like are (bleep)’’don’t stank’’
thank you
like jayjonna415 said…shut the F**K up and ENJOY the experience!!
A man's life is described either by his actions, words, or even the people who he loves and loves him.
SI!
unfortuneately it was Brazil 2-1
A man's life is described either by his actions, words, or even the people who he loves and loves him.
The 0-0 draw is not very common
I don’t get why people complain about there being a lack of “scoring” in soccer.
Each team takes around 15 shots, that should be enough excitement.
I don’t hear anyone complaining about Hockey when it finishes with a 1-0 score.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Jun 18, 2010 1:13 AM PDT up reply actions
''you mean 124 people vote and half of the people voted and its virtually 50-50 down the middle'
but its the wrong 50 people voted 2 keep the horns or not keep the horns,instead of voting lol’’ 4 that classic at the bottom’’where’s the ‘’siince of humor’’ on this sight?Whatever lol i liked the ’’joke’’at the bottom thats what i voted,and frankly they can ‘’blow out there ass’‘as far as i’m concered it doesn’t bother me what bothers me is its taking ‘’the real football season 2 long 2 get here but its cool its tradition.You can’t have a ‘’nation throw a world cup in their world’‘and then try 2 tell them ’’2 stop their tradition’’thats some ’’’american BS ‘’that ive ever seen.Some people ’’key word’’some people think only ‘’ the africans are blowing the horns’‘they better look closer cuzz thats not just the africans doingi it and if was ’’who gives a damm ’’don’t like mute it the anouncers aren’t american ,but you don’t hear people saying ‘’damm they need americans anouncing these games espn is the ones showing this’’so be it
I dont know what Jayjonna is talking about but
I personally enjoy seeing something different in sports. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to “like” or “dislike” something but that should not give anyone the right to take that “something” away. Some on here have said that it is not a home field advantage but I disagree. The south africans play futbol with the instrument playing, so therefore when the south africans are playing they are use to the sound and it has no effect on them.
You can not say that it is not part of someones culture simply because it wasn’t around 40 years ago. Cultures change and adapt new things so that argument does not exist. Young white americans have taken a huge liking to Hip hop music, in fact they represent more money in hip hop than young black americans, it is a part of their culture now and it has not always been that way.
As Smileyman mentioned…how does horns stop someone from playing a sport? Athletes are focused on the game at hand and should be able to function no matter the situation. I am for the horns and in fact…BLOW THEM HARDER!
"Of all the things in the world losing isn't so bad; it just starts to feel like it does when you do it for so long"
All i was saying ninerfan and i apoligize about my grammer,is that we should enjoy this i know i'm trying 2 yea
the first time i heard ‘’those horns ’’i was like WTF is this lol but its all about fans being excited about their teams ‘’and thats a good thing’‘.We just can’t understand it is because if we tried that hear it would last 1 quater because americans’’smoke more cigarettes’’lol but 4 real i’m impressed by ‘’their lung capacity’’its got 2 good 4 you?
Are you from there because ''you talk as if your from there''just because you can sit on your computer and look things up don't mean (bleep)
how you know ?Do you live there ,have you been there or are you just ‘’blowing you horn’’like everybody else,is there a rule or law that says whether thats traditional or a part of their cultre?
I voted yes, but only because
there wasn’t a better option in the choices. I don’t mind them being banned if the organization chooses to. However, if they’re ok with it, then the discussion should end for the time being. I’m always against governments stepping in where they don’t belong.
Since when is FIFA a government?
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Well they govern all of Soccer.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Jun 18, 2010 1:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Thank you ,thats what i said you go ''snatching horns ''out of people hands ,with the stuff they already ''have 2 deal with''
your askinng 4 problems i’m not going 2 lie if it wasn’t on espn and as long as ’’america’’is still in it ‘’i wouldn’t be watching it period,but ‘’i am watching and i’m enjoying it and thats coming from ‘’a die-hard laker fan a die-hard s.f giant fan’’andi’m still watching ‘’the world cup’‘but thats what i’m enjoying seeing other people ‘’enjoy it’‘and thats what its all about.If i had friends who were south african or even russian and they came 2 america 2 see are games if i’m at a football game ’’’i’m showing them how we do the wave,how we stomp on the floor and get loud in the 4th qauter i want them 2 ‘’enjoy are traditions in are sports’‘people get caught up complaiing trying 2 force ’’our traditions or trying 2 stop theirs’’enjoy it 4 ’’what it is.
The vuvuzelas will not be banned
I happen to know that. Sorry to sound high and mighty. I don’t often get the chance on this site to know more than most because everyone here knows more about football (football football, not soccer football) than me. But I do have some inside knowledge here. They won’t ban the vuvuzelas because they are an intrinsic part of the South African football culture. Quite right too I say – the World Cup was taken to Africa for a reason, which was to get African culture into the world’s biggest football tournament. To do that and then sanitize the experience locally for the sake of European TV audiences (for it is they that are making the most noise about this – pun intended) would be ridiculous.
What they might do is work with broadcasters to reduce the effects mics that are placed at pitchside – in fact they WILL do that. They are doing that now. I don’t mean to spoil the debate – the fact that they won’t ban the vuvuzelas doesn’t mean we can’t debate whether they SHOULD. I don’t think they should because I believe in respecting local cultures, but others might disagree.
LondonNiner - member of the legendary David Carr thread, 6 March 2010.
i think they're great
They don’t drown out the announcers. They add to the atmosphere and actually make me wish I was there. I want to start using them at my local college football games.
Americans are making too big a deal about those things and it’s making us sound like little b****es. “My ears hurt…whhhhhhhaaaaaaaaa!”
How many time am I going to have to hear “It sounds like a swarm of bees”?? I actually found it really amusing yesterday when I read one of my friends posts on facebook that said “Is it just me or does it sound like they are playing soccer in a bee hive?” No. It’s not just you. The entire f-ing American media has been saying that exact line! Grow a d***!!!
Viva vuvuzelas!
end rant
i completely agree
people that aren’t use to these types of international games or havn’t seen a soccer game dont know that horns are used all aorund the world! these are just made differently and sound like that.
Personally i love it. Makes the atmosphere great just like you said.
they need to stop whining and enjoy the game
A man's life is described either by his actions, words, or even the people who he loves and loves him.
Are you kidding?
It’s not the American media or Americans who really care. It’s the rest of the world. When you make an uninformed statement like that, YOU sound like the Ugly American.
And the reason people are complaining is because: 1) unlike crowd noise, the vuvuzelas are constant, going on throughout the entire game; 2) they drown out all other noise, including legitimate crowd noises (cheers, songs, etc., which come from Africa, Asia, Europe, etc.), referee whistles, etc.; and 3) at 135-145 db, they are literally louder than a jet engine, right around the threshold for pain, and certainly above the threshold for permanent hearing damage for anyone who’s there. http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy99/phy99405.htm
Dumbarse.
this is how i interpret what you just wrote...
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this guy
hahahhhahahahha
A man's life is described either by his actions, words, or even the people who he loves and loves him.
''IF you look down at that black contraption some people call it a remote control they have the words m-u-t-e see
if you can press down on that don’t worry it doesn’t bite lol
Stop crying go buy you a airplane ticket over there and get your ''ron artest''on,and get back 2 me see where
that gets you,but we both no thats not happening ,if anything we should be complaining about ‘’these games they suck basically no scoring at all thats what i’m pissed about.
theres a good reason for no scoring
alot of these teams are evenly matched…thats why they are calling this “the best world cup ever”…its hard to tell who will win….this is literally anyones championship
A man's life is described either by his actions, words, or even the people who he loves and loves him.
Actually
There’s a better reason the scoring is so low and it has nothing to do with the teams bring evenly matched (beacause they aren’t). Most of the teams are sitting back and trying to catch the other team on the counter, so if everyone is sitting back it causes a lot of possession in the middle of the park and few chances created. And who is saying it’s “the best world cup ever?” It’s been terrible so far.
when will the Kenny Thomas Reign of Terror end?!!??
by diehardkingsfan5 on Jun 16, 2010 10:10 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
let me see
its just a statement that ive heard around. and if they aren’t evenly matched, then please do tell why brazil just passed by N. Korea by 1 goal or that the swiss beat spain… one of the more complete teams. or why france tied with uruguay. or even that italy tied with paraguay.
not every team is sitting and waiting for the counter. thats just a broad generalization thats not true. alot of these teams are better than they look. and no it hasnt been terrible. thats your opinion and thats fine, but most, if not all, of these games have had a good amount of excitement and have at least 1 goal or 2.
A man's life is described either by his actions, words, or even the people who he loves and loves him.
by imjuliooo89 on Jun 16, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
DieHardKings
is absolutely right. You wanna say Brazil vs N. Korea is evenly matched? The only team that has pressed action so far is the Germans and they slaughtered their undermatched Aussie opponent.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jun 16, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Other than USA Germany
The world cup has sucked balls so far
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jun 16, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Lol flashback to 94 there
USA England
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jun 16, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Had 2 hit you up ''cuzzin''when you got a name like that ,you know this wouldn't be a ''big deal''if everyone grabbed their ''horn''
ahhh ( bong ) and just chilled out okay i’ll be the first 2 do it.
It's irritating...
…at first. Just tune it out, it’s not that hard.
I do understand why the players dislike it though. You’re used to crowd noises on the field/ice/whatever and usually you ignore it (or you’re too into the game to notice). The vuvuzelas have a distinct sound that not everyone is used to. That’s why the players are being thrown off.
But it’s exactly as LondonNiner said, they won’t be banned because it’s part of their culture in the sport (if that makes sense). As annoying as it is (at first), I agree with that.
So just tune it out and focus on the game.
And to those of you that don’t like the low scoring (or no scoring at all)…it means that the teams are playing well. We’re seeing some damn good soccer this year, that’s why you see so many ties. Soccer is just as much strategy as football. When you see back and forth play that a lot of us are used to from sports like hockey and basketball it means something’s wrong (as in, the defence/midfield is playing poorly or whatever).
I’m a soccer player so naturally I can tolerate the lower scoring…but I can totally understand why a lot of people are bored by it. It’s boring. Thing is, that means the teams are good, playing well and evenly matched. If you give it a chance and understand the sport more and more you might eventually see it better that you do now.
That’s just how I see it though…
Damn the consequences, it has to be said:
jayjonna is a moron
Did you really try to bring race into an argument about plastic horns?
by tedler on Jun 15, 2010 10:04 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
I can actually tune them out pretty easily.
But at the same time I don’t like them because they’re constant.
When fans chant or scream they do it within the flow of the game. Team does well, fans get louder. Team goes through a lull, fans get quieter. Team scores, stadium goes nuts. Vuvuzelas are just loud all the time, whether the game is exciting, boring, or somewhere in between. We can’t hear a stadium erupt anymore because it’s just bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
I also don’t like the idea of artificial noise, but the boundaries for what you can deem artificial are always under debate (cowbells, thundersticks, even stomping)
But yes, it’s culture. South African league games have had these for years and as much as we argue that it takes away from the atmosphere, it really is what makes up the South African idea of match atmosphere. I suppose we let them have their fun now and we never deal with it again.
that's hilarious
do you have a link to that .gif? I want to send it to my friends
"Son, I'm going to break you like a wild horse." - Mike Singletary

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