What's Your Confidence Level For Ted Ginn?
by James Brady on Jul 17, 2010 7:00 AM PDT
in San Francisco 49ers News
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PrintSo I found out a couple weeks ago that folks thought wide receiver Josh Morgan would do alright for himself. We had about 500 votes for "high" and about 500 for "medium" and I suppose I, myself, was somewhere in between on that number. Now we have a slightly trickier receiver to rate.
I've decided I'm going to make this solely about Ted Ginn the wide receiver. Don't rate him any higher because you think he might be a great returner - I'll likely revisit him later on for return-man confidence ratings. What of Ted Ginn Jr. the wide receiver?
There are some Miami fans who would take offense to referring to Ginn as anything but a kick returner. He's very fast, very elusive, and by all means should be a very effective weapon in the passing game. And he is... sometimes. Turns out he doesn't utilize very good body position, and when he does, his hands become these giant blocks of stone fit only to bat a ball out of the air.
I said it before that i think Ginn would have been far better off sticking with the cornerback position going into and coming out of college. He has all those tools, and wouldn't have to rely on his sub-par catching ability to make that scrilla. The fact remains that Ted Ginn will always be one big play away from being loved or being lynched. He'll make one big play and be loved, an then he'll have three games of pure mediocrity with some of the worst drops you'll ever see.
BUT, it's worth noting that Ginn is working on his hands a lot this offseason. He's working with Vernon Davis, who must be doing something right. It's also worth noting that Ginn won't be depended on to carry the hopes of a wide receiving unit. They threw to Ginn every time in Miami because they had nobody else to throw to. His biggest asset will be coming in with Vernon already on the field and creating a huge mismatch, beating any cornerback down the field. But does he have the hands to capitalize on it? In a reduced role, who knows? After the jump, I define your voting.
Very High: Ted Ginn makes a big play per game. He comes in and creates the veritable mismatch that we always wanted him to. He's not only a scapegoat out there, allowing Vernon Davis to make some catches, he actually becomes a reliable target down the sidelines. Begins to take time away from Josh Morgan.
High: Ginn is a reliable scapegoat, as stated, but also doesn't show that he has the drops from previous years. It doesn't mean he catches everything that goes his way, but it means that when he's out there people don't groan and wince, which I believe we can all say is a huge step in the right direction from Ginn. A few touchdowns to be sure.
Medium: Ginn isn't the wide receiver we're looking for. He drops balls. He makes a couple good catches, but mixes in some drops. About even in that regard, but still definitely provides a different element on the field and the opposing team has to account for him, so he DOES help the team. Just not in a way you can tell by stats.
Low: He's vintage wide receiver Ginn. He'll drop more than he catches and he'll generally be a bad option to have out there on the field. Every time he's out there folks will wonder why Singletary and Co won't give up on him, but it will be very clear he doesn't bring much to the team as a wide receiver in any capacity.
Very Low: Alex Smith would be better off chucking the ball downfield, outrunning it and catching it himself.
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I voted Low*
But with an * for optimism. I’m not going to expect much from a guy who couldn’t make it happen somewhere else, who’s two biggest flaws as a receiver so far have been hands and alligator arms, AND who we got for only a 5th round pick.
I know what I'm talking about, I started at right guard for the 1992 College Park Falcons.
id pick medium-high
if it was there. despite the fact that he was a high #1 pick, he’s really only a 5th rounder to the niners. i cant imagine he has a huge berth (in roster position) over williams. to his benefit he has a few years learning to be a NFL receiver.
Williams has something wrong with his hands where glue just comes out, and everything sticks.
yeah its a different position, but with the lack of 3 wide receiver sets… how much time will ginn really get?
LOL you stole my line
Although I was gonna say “Low High” You said Williams is at a different position? I’m confused, they both would be slot’s and 3rd or 4th WRs right?
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Jul 17, 2010 7:26 AM PDT up reply actions
yeah i suppose you could be right
honestly i dont see ginn lining up in the slot all that much, hes great at running really fast in a straight line, so i picture him wide left whenever he’s in, with vernon on the right end.
williams seems more of a slot/over the middle kind of guy. either way they are both the 3rd or 4th receiver at that point.
Ahh I got ya now
So a lineup kinda like this?
G LT, LG, C, RG, RT VD C
W QB
RB
Essentially a typical Ace Formation.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Jul 17, 2010 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Ginn in college at Ohio State
In college, Ginn dropped a few, but was a dominant speed receiver who caught the ball. That is why he was a 1st round pick. He developed dropsy in Miami (with mediocre, or worse, QBs). I believe the dropped passes were mostly mental, not lack of hands. He is not the only one to do this; think Vernon Davis in the Nolan years. I think he is only some coaching and some plays run for him to build self-confidence away from high to very high. Think Vernon Davis in the Singletary era. We will see.
I said medium also.
But you did make me think about something I had not considered. When he comes into the game, he will most likely not be the first option. VD will draw the coverage, and Ted can easily beat most cornerbacks in the league over the top. If he can just hold on to it, we could all be pleasantly surprised.
It's a win, win
No one is depending on Ginn to carry the offense, that is Crabs and VD when it comes to recievers and Gore is a beast out of the back field catching balls too. Ginn will be the guy that will make teams be honest with their coverage. If the don’t cover him deep then Alex can lob him an easy TD, if the do cover him deep then it opens lanes for Crabs, VD and company. They will also line Crabs up at the slot at times and can switch up with Ginn at any position. Ginn is also dangerous with the bubble screen passes, with his speed he can make plays with easy caught passes. Ginn is a guy that has to work on catching the ball, he is not a natural. Early in OTAs he dropped many passes and had the coaches roll their eyes too often. It was also reported that as time went on, that he started catching more and more, with less drops. To get this guy for only a 5th round pick is a steal. High!
we needed
our own DHB to match the criminals across the bay anyway.
Because they are sponsored by a bail bondsmen
On a serious note, I think the 9ers did a great job in the Ginn trade even if he just does kicks and punts
IMO
Yep agreed
I mean there are ones that I would have liked to have picked up with that pick but getting a probable known factor at KRs is worth tossing out a 5 for. And if he is able to get a TD or two at receiver and put us in better position in returns and Williams getting us good return for punts then that would be sweet. I mean a 5th and 6th for two good return men and passable receivers. I mean if we end up with this draft getting two good O Linemen, a good Safety, a #2 ILB, a #2 RB, two returners that could be passable receivers that’s a pretty good haul.
if Smith does at least plausibly next year then we could have a darn viable team. Yeah I’m feeling it about now, I’ll admit it. :-)
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Jul 17, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Their owner drinks goat blood
and sacrifices virgins
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Jul 18, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Only the goats blood is true
the virgin thing was just a rumour..I mean come on!
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Jul 18, 2010 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep it goes hand in hand with the other rumor
He sacrifices virgin goats and then drinks their blood
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Jul 18, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Now that one is true
but all the human ones take a look at him or his cronies and run.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Jul 18, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Ginn will be a product of the 9ers ability to
coach their players to reach there potential. His game will flourish as he learns to do certain things well without having the pressure to be the lead dog. Ginn has nothing to lose and everything to gain in this system. High
Meh
If he’s there mostly for special teams, then I hope we keep Vann over him (if it comes down to that). If the coaches want to use him in the offense, then I’ll have a little more than just low confidence. I think we’ll be running 3 WR sets mostly though, with Crabs, Morgan and Williams in there, and I personally would rather see Hill in over Ginn if we go 4 wide.
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
Adopted parent of good old Wendell, he tries so hard. You'll get a hit someday son!
by theghostofjasonellison on Jul 17, 2010 10:07 AM PDT reply actions
I think Ted's hands will improve
with him not having to go all out to beat a teams #1 corner. Its a lot easier to control body position and focus on catching the ball with your hands when you’re running at 80-90% then when you’re running flat out. Ginn can beat almost any nickle corner in the league at 80% so I expect a good year out of him. His year won’t be amazing though, he’s still #3 on the depth chart.
So he gets a medium from me.
Gimme 1 round!
Medium, but better than at Miami
Coach Boone: And who's team is this, Gary? Is this your team? Or is this your daddy's team?
Bertier: Yours.
Coach Boone: Now get on the bus. Put on your jacket first and then get on the bus.
With MIchael Crabtree and Josh Morgan
that would make Ginn your 3rd receiver. As a 3rd receiver going up against nickle corners i would rate Ginn High.
When he was in Miami he was forced to be our #1 reciver, and no matter what he did people didn’t appreciate him in Miami because of his draft status (9th pick overall). The only touchdown Darrelle Revis gave up all season was to Ted Ginn. He practically burned him on a double move.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyPtJF-IgPc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35fxXOXBrA8
Ginn flashed a lot of potential at times while he was our starter, but he wasn’t a number one..now you put him in a situation with Crabtree, Morgan, Gore and Davis drawing a lot of attention that will only open doors for Ginn. And a lot of people like to get on Ginn about his hands, but the thing he does well is catching the bomb
and Ginn Has NEVER dropped a bomb while he was with the Dolphins.
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 17, 2010 10:58 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Can you please define ..
“Never dropped a bomb” just want to make sure of what you mean. I agree that he was not up to snuff as a #1 and shouldn’t have been considered to be. It takes a full team to make a team and he is a role player and has the opportunity to be a good role player. He just needs to get his confidence back.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Jul 17, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
I would like to know that definition as well
are we talking a 30, 40, 50, or 60 yard pass?
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jul 17, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions
40+
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
Bomb as in 40+ yards
that play i linked with Revis was only one of the many times he’s burnt both a safety and a corner for a TD.
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
That's true.
Hopefully for your guys sake his long TD’s stand. (40+) A lot got called back for penalties. Most penalties occurred away from the play. Would be an intriguing stat to see how many TD’s were disallowed on Ginn (most likely the most in the NFL within the last 3 years). I would say around 10 as a kr/wr in his 3 years at Miami. I doubt it’s less but it could be more.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Ted Ginn The WR
My confidence is Medium (which is a majority of what I’ve been voting for most of the players). The reason it’s not low or high is because Ted Ginn will be the 3rd WR at best (I think) so it’s not really going to hurt the team if he’s terrible. There’s more impact if he’s successful than if he sucks. Personally though, I think Ginn and Kyle Williams are going to be fine #3 guys with Jason Hill being the wild card when injuries happen.
In my opinion the 49ers receiving options go like this: 1. Vernon Davis 2. Michael Crabtree 3. Josh Morgan 4. Frank Gore 5. Delanie Walker 6. WR #3. That’s why it’s not really going to kill the team if Ginn stinks, even if he’s the third WR.
by Andrew Davidson on Jul 17, 2010 11:16 AM PDT reply actions
You're from Missouri aren't ya?
Sounds like you want all of them to “show me” what they can do and I think that’s what we’re looking at for the whole team really. The team needs to understand that they are a team. I remember hearing Bellichick saying “Do your job” and that’s what they need to do. Each of them doing their own job and working as a team. If Ginn gets one TD as a receiver then I would say he’s done his job for his pick (our pick not the dolphins pick) and in answer to Clutchy who posted after me yes I am being a homer but also looking at pick versus production. Miami spent a 1st on him and he’s not Crabs (who is our 1st and dang well better show it) Ginn is a 5th round pick by the Niners and if he does what he did last year with the Dolphins then he’s well worth it as a 5th round pick.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Jul 17, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Really guys? High? You’re all a bunch of homers
Dashon, Mays, and Bamm Bamm will get the record for most decapitations in one season
by MichaelClutchtree on Jul 17, 2010 11:22 AM PDT reply actions
He'll be good
This is Ted Gins last chance to establish himself as a WR and a dominate one he was good in college and miami he didnt work hard. This is his new start where he can actually make a diffrence on an upcoming squad so high expectations an he’ll make something happen after teams leave him wide open hands full with davis an crab
by SFniner_Hitter on Jul 17, 2010 12:04 PM PDT reply actions
Low
he is just a KR and should stick to that role.
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jul 17, 2010 12:09 PM PDT reply actions
Yes the pressure should be on returning
but if we can get a benefit from him as a receiver then it’s worth a try here in the Training Camp Preseason category. I think that he and Williams will have some personal "fighting"" (as in brothers fighting each other) and try and do the “anything you can do” kind of thing. I would think that Lowis a bit …well low. I think he will get a TD or two just as he did in on the Dolphins and be someone that always needs to be taken into consideration, low consideration but consideration.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Jul 17, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Medium.
He’s the starting KR. If he doesn’t fumble the ball he’ll be ok (expert analysis right?). Anything he does on offense is a bonus.
I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff
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Alex Smith to Michael Crabtree
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Madison Bumgarner to Gerald Buster "Jesus" Posey
by Hoopers Judge on Jul 17, 2010 1:16 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
+1
If he can get one return TD this season, not saying it’s hugely significant, but that’s one more than we had all last year. And even if he doesn’t get the TD’s, he could put us in a better position to get more of them. And if he makes a few gamebreaking plays on offense, definitely a bonus!
28 days to go. . .
So ok let's lay out some numbers
To be medium to high at WR I’d say he’d have a to someone to worry about and get us some good yards at least and if he can get one maybe 2 touchdowns then I’d classify him as high.
On the returner front I’d say to be medium he’d have to have no screwups by that I mean no muffs or lost balls or such on returns and a viable yards per (someone give me a number here) and to be high I’d say he’d have to have (someone gimme a number here) yards per return and 1 or 2 returns for TD.
Sound viable guys and let’s fill in the blanks.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Jul 18, 2010 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Medium...
… let’s keep in mind though , outta the shot gun this team has two Wr’s and two T.E’s one back , that’s what they ran the most , not a lotta 3Wr set’s … so it’s medium for me cuz he may not see a lot of time on the field as a receiver …!!
Gotta love a woman that wear's knee pad's to work ...!!
he's a #4 reciever......
but speed will be a factor in the defensive planning by the opp.
by remembertheCATCH on Jul 17, 2010 10:26 PM PDT reply actions
my best laugh of the day
Alex Smith would be better off chucking the ball downfield, outrunning it and catching it himself.
I’d pay money to see that.
by remembertheCATCH on Jul 17, 2010 10:27 PM PDT reply actions
Alex Smith has already completed a pass to himself before
For negative yardage, though.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Jul 18, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
voted medium
He’s in a new place. A fresh start. He no longer has the pressure of being the #10 overall pick and the teams #1 and only wide receiver threat. Now he’s a 5th round trade and the 4th option at best.
It’s kind of a trend that guys with potential who never made it where they were drafted do better when they go somewhere else and have a new beginning.
Not sayin it will definitely happen with Ginn. Just hoping I guess.
I voted very low
I have no confidence in Ted Ginn, the WR.
I wish he would do well though, but I just don’t see it.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
I, too, voted "very low"... there's a reason Miami let him go for a 5th, and THEY think that THEY got the better end of the deal...
and they know Ginn much better than we do. Not only does he have very questionable hands for a WR and for a PR/KR, that problem is exacerbated by his lack of courage. HE HEARS FOOTSTEPS big time, sacrifices yardage (even in critical situations) by going OB to avoid a hit. For the umpteenth time, he has great physical skills, but NO fysical skills…
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
Opening up the field
Doesn’t that depend more on the O line than Ginn?
no
A deep threat like will open it out for the people underneath. But, balance opens the field. Good running game. Defenses will stack the box. Good passing game. Defenses will drop into coverage. Combo of good running and passing Defense will have to pick their poison. 40+ deep threat pass can cause problems here. The Oline has their part in buying the time necessary but they don’t really open it. Playmakers do.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
OMG!!!!
Just the fact that Ted Ginn Jr. at worst is only a return specialist w/ the upside of being a potential game breaker at the 3rd wideout position makes me giddy about the upcoming season.
While some are down on Smith: I can imagine a 1st down set (thats right first down) of Smith in shotty, Crabs, VD, Morgan, Ginn Jr, and Frank Gore. That would be dominating! Offset that with a power running game, and BAM! the 49er offense is pretty dynamic.
BTW – long time lurker, love the niners, just been caught up with my equally passionate Sharks love.
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