The Problem of being an Amateur
Once upon a time the Olympics allowed only amateur athletes to compete. The idea was that professionals would have an unfair advantage over those who not only trained in their sport but had to spend time doing other things like making enough money to live. They wanted people who embodied the ethos of a sound mind and a sound body. In other words, those who were well rounded, not one dimensional. But eventually some countries, like those in Eastern Europe, found a way around the rule. They would hire top athletes into the army and let them train full time while they paid them for their "military" service. Those athletes had an advantage over their non-paid counterparts. As a result, in 1986 the IOC decided to allow professionals to participate in the Olympics.
Now the NCAA is running into similar problems in college football. Unscrupulous agents and middlemen are giving cash and gifts to top players in the hopes of recovering their investment when the player enters the NFL. Reggie Bush made huge headlines recently when it turned out his family was living rent free for a year in a $750K home. Of course the family signed a contract saying they would pay rent every month, but no money was ever paid until after Bush turned professional.
Which means USC is now the ones really paying the price. They're banned from bowl play until December 2012, they'll lose 10 scholarships a year for the next 3 years, and they're stripped of their national championship in 2005. USC even volantarily sent back the Heisman trophy awarded for Bush's play in 2005 that they had on display. No word on if Bush will send back his trophy.
Some people are complaining that USC is paying the price while those who benefited, Bush and his family, are walking away unpunished. But how much money did USC make because Bush was on the team? How many people watched USC simply because of the dynamic play making ability of Bush or went out and bought his jersey? USC may be paying the price now but they made plenty of money off of him while he was there.
More after the jump.
Now the NCAA is on the war path. They don't want a repeat performance from another top player so they're cracking down to send a message. Recently they were in Chapel Hill interviewing 13 players for "Bush like" violations at UNC. One of those players was top NFL prospect Marvin Austin who was seen driving the 49ers own Kentwan Balmer's car.
They then went down to Columbia to ask questions about South Carolina TE Weslye Saunders. Upon hearing the news, Gamecock's head coach Steve Spurrier couldn't help but take a jab at ex-USC coach Pete Carroll by saying, "We're not going to look the other way like possibly Southern California did. We're going to abide by the rules."
And then if that wasn't enough, word came out that they're also investigating ex-Gator Maurkice Pouncey for allegedly accepting $100K from an agent. And this wasn't all done on the spur of the moment. Reports say that the NCAA has been gathering evidence for months.
The problem the NCAA has is that college football is big business. Top coaches in college make just as much, if not more than their counterparts in the NFL. While the players, on the other hand, are receiving well below thier fair market value. So with players being paid only in an education and free room and board, and with college football bringing in hundreds of millions of dollars every year, it has created an opening for people trying to work the system.
Yes, I know a good education could be worth a lot in future income, but the top players could care less what their scholarship could mean for their future income. They're looking at the money NFL players earn, where their degree in criminal justice won't matter. Plus, how many players even get their degree? Not surprisingly, for a top school like Stanford the graduation rate in 2010 was 89%. But when you go to a football factory like USC the graduation rate drops to 57% and when you go to Texas it drops even more to 49%. The national average for FBS schools is 67%, with Duke having the highest graduation rate at 96% and SJ St having the worst at 33%. So while a free education has value, it doesn't equal the value of the top players to their school. At least not in the players eyes, otherwise so many of them wouldn't throw it away by not graduating.
So what's the answer? Players like Reggie Bush make a lot of money for their schools but they're not getting paid what they're worth. At the same time, if schools started sharing their income with the players the difference between top schools and bottom schools would widen even more. By and large recruits would choose the school that gave them the best opportunity to earn the most money. I suppose they could create some sort of revenue sharing system where all they players got paid a flat rate based on their playing time and position, but that still wouldn't keep agents and boosters from paying under the table. No matter what, as long as there's money to be made, people will try to find ways to make it. And few sports are bigger business than college football.
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I don't see why players can't get a stipend
yeah they’re on scholarships (some of them anyway) so their room and board and college expenses are taken care of, but they have no cash. They can’t get jobs due to the whole NCAA thing, so give them monthly stipends of a few hundred dollars.
I’d even be ok with letting them seek advertising deals with local businesses
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
+1
"If you don't love it, leave it! USA, number one!" - Ricky Stanzi
by Haggardninja on Jul 26, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
they can get jobs
they just have to, you know, actually show up to them.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I'm pretty sure they can't
If they can it’s severly limited
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
OK did some digging
from what I can tell it looks like scholarship athletes can’t work during the school year. They can work during the summer if they want to, but they can’t work in any job within the sports department.
Of course working during the summer is tough for football players due to spring practices and camps starting up before school, plus any football camps that their school runs that they’re asked to participate in. There really isn’t much in the way of opportunities for athletes to work while attending school.
There’s a reason so many of them come out early.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Because the logistics don't work
Football is the only sport that operates at a profit for most colleges/universities, the remaining sports operate at a significant loss or at best break even. Essentially schools football programs are paying to operate the rest of the sports teams/programs on campus and without football’s profits schools would have to drastically cut athletics or significantly increase tuition for the rest of their students.
They can’t pay football players more money because it brings up blatant Title IX equality issues. Of course they can’t raise scholarships benefits across the board because it will break the bank for a significant amount of schools and force the surviving schools to squeeze more profit out their football programs, essentially the same problem is now worse.
I was thinking like $100 a week or less
which is peanuts
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Then schools need to change the rules to allow players on scholarships to work
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jul 26, 2010 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks for correcting me
NCAA should change the rules. Kind of is not good enough. I don’t think I could live off working just in the summer, and I’m a college student who does not do as many various activities as one of these college athletes who are receiving scholarships.
It just seems easier to allow these athletes to work than to make schools pay more money.
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jul 26, 2010 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions
They can't work during football season anyways between practice and homework and 2-3 hour sessions at the gym
Pay these kids a stipend. Colleges make 10’S OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS off these kids. Its disgusting to tell them they can’t even get a living stipend off their work. When other kids are working at Papa Schlub’s pizza they are on the practice field or in the gym to make their school more money.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 26, 2010 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions
exactly
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
This thread was about schools not wanting to pay extra money
Yes, they SHOULD think about making some kind of stipend. However, if they are not willing to pay money, then they need to make the NCAA change the rules to at least allow the student athletes on scholarships to work during the school year. I should also point out that not all athletes on scholarships have that kind of level of dedication that you speak of.
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jul 27, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
College players do receive a stipend
A (relatively) small one for food expenses to support their dietary needs, as well as other expenses. Scholarships are slightly higher than the cost of housing, books, and tuition, and they receive a stipend on the order that you are suggesting. But clearly that is nothing compared the $400k that Bush pocketed.
We're havin' too much fun today. We ain't thinkin' 'bout tomorrow.
you guys are retarded.
I will not even go into the details why other then the fact that they do not pay for anything while there in college….name one college athlete you have seen that is broke. NONE! I have lived on 3 college campus area’s including Oregon, Stanford , and Cal. Every athlete I ever seen was having good times up in the club wearing the best clothes and living in the best frat houses. COLLEGE IS FOR EDUCATION ! RRRRRRAWR .
this post is retarded.
not to stoop to that level, but the post is about getting these things LEGALLY, therefore addressing exactly what you posted above. read before you tantrum.
Yeah they're not broke because agents are giving them cash under the table
which is the problem we’re trying to avoid.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
hmm
Weren’t u the guy who prematurely celebrated the 49ers “win” during the vikings game last year. I’m somewhat over it now but for a few weeks after the game I blamed u and ur jinx on the loss. Regardless think before insulting people…
Mass genocide is the most exhausting activity one can engage in, outside of soccer.
YEAH!
What they said! Seriously though, that’s the reason they are “having good times up in the club” and so on. I’m sure they also get special treatment on campus too because of who they are but not too many athletes that show up on a full ride come from rich households. I see nothing wrong with giving them some kind of monthly check during the season. I don’t think it should be anything close to what they are getting from the agents but something would be deserved for all of the money they bring into the schools.
"If you don't love it, leave it! USA, number one!" - Ricky Stanzi
by Haggardninja on Jul 26, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
having a good time in a club
will not get you financial stability
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
sure hate all you want
But the fact is these “kids” have money coming in. They don’t need to pay for anything because it’s all payed for. The NCAA might say they can’t work but I have known guys who have worked at the Nike store in Eugene while they were in the school season. You act like they need money….sorry but there transportation,housing,clothes,food, and somehow there getting money for all the clubbing. The fact that there education is being payed for because they can run fast is a joke. Sorry to get an education just to leave the school to go pro and make millions is sad, specially for the kids that went the extra mile to get accepted to any university on the merit of brains. You say having a good time in the club will not get you financially stable yet the point of me saying that was to show that they do have money at all times. When someone gets hurt they still get there education….FREE! and to think most people have to pay over $80 grand for 4 years of college.
Dude are you stupid?
That point is that money they are getting isn’t legit and the NCAA can bring the hammer. Reggie Bush had money to go to the club and have a nice suit for the Heisman ceremony. Wonder where that came from? Now USC is assed out 2 years.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 29, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Of course the resident retard comes in with this
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 26, 2010 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Last time I checked!
College education was not free! there are ways to get money without depending on agents and others willing to wait till the NFL. Everybody is looking for an angle when it comes to education, money, and careers. He got caught and they will find another way to get over. The NFL has to see how they play a dangerous part in this.
Santa Clara, You are the Father!
it is in CA
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
College education isn’t free but people that get education scholarships have the opportunity to get a job while they go to school.
"If you don't love it, leave it! USA, number one!" - Ricky Stanzi
by Haggardninja on Jul 26, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
read above post by smileyman
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
I did.
It says they can work but only in the summer. That’s three months out of the year.
"If you don't love it, leave it! USA, number one!" - Ricky Stanzi
by Haggardninja on Jul 26, 2010 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I can make a years worth of money in 3 months!
If I’m the athletic director of the college where my slave labor is turning over a 30 million per year in pure profit.
Or I’m selling crack.
Or I’m getting paid by my agent.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 26, 2010 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions
That's what I'm saying
What kind of job can these athletes get for three months out of the year that can give them enough money throughout the school year? I think you listed the only three out there.
"If you don't love it, leave it! USA, number one!" - Ricky Stanzi
by Haggardninja on Jul 26, 2010 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions
any one they want
Have you seen the amount of respect some punk kid gets because he ran fast.
Seriously to say something like that is stupid…wtf do you think all the high school kids do when summer time happens. They get jobs!
YOU. ARE. A. REEETTTTTAAARRRRRD!!!!
Kids under athletic scholarships aren’t allowed to get jobs during the season and if a place gets caught paying a kid a ridiculous amount of money to work a simple job the school gets busted. The point here is that there needs to be an ETHICAL way for these guys to EARN money since the school and NCAA says they can’t.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 29, 2010 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
I think Nick Saban has a wonderful solution
but it forces the NFL to get involved: Any agent caught giving benefits to a college athlete in violation of NCAA rules loses the right to deal with the NFL for 5 years.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
+1000
I think it’s easy to forget (albeit to a lesser degree) how much money agents make off of the athletes they represent. If they break rules, suffering some kind of consequence like this will likely make them think twice before doing something unethical. But of course, there’s always baseball, basketball, hockey, etc. :P
20 days to go!
I'm on twitter now. Please follow me! www.twitter.com/@yougomango
This isn't a solution at all.
It just makes it so Agents will pay boosters to pay athletes. Dumb. 1000% dumb
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 26, 2010 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Its pretty clear these players are getting a raw deal
and how many of these guys would really be good job prospects? Come on now, the reality is that these guys (most of them) got to Div 1 schools because they play football not because they aced their SAT’s.
There needs to be some way these guys can be compensated.
My solution: allow them to get paid for advertisements – that’s all.
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
I think that's a good solution
For example if you play NCAA football fantasy individual player names aren’t listed due to financial compensation. Instead it’s QB for Stanford, QB for BYU, etc.
ESPN could strike a deal whereby they list players names and the players get a cut. Madden’s NCAA game could pay players.
Lots of opportunities for a little extra cash that way and I think it would cut down on agents recruiting early
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Local dealership's ...
… Car’s , Tv’s ,Furniture …etc…!!
Gotta love a woman that wear's knee pad's to work ...!!
Great for keeping local talent...
Standouts of close proximity high school’s might find the opportunity of playing in their home state even more attractive because of available local deals. Might also increase the interest of local fans..
At least thats something
The guys should also get a cut off any merchandise that is directly related to them. Specifically Jersey sales with their # on it during their time at the school. Anybody that bought a #5 USC Jersey during the 2005 season bought it for 1 reason and 1 reason only. Because Reggie F’ing Bush wore it.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 26, 2010 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions
That would give a huge recruiting advantage to the major markets.
Imagine the endorsement deals you could get in LA or New York versus Pullman Washington, or Provo Utah. There’s no great solution, but the fact of the matter is, athletes are not struggling to make ends meat while they are in college. Some of their families may be, but the athletes themselves are doing fine.
We're havin' too much fun today. We ain't thinkin' 'bout tomorrow.
Not only that
But just a couple of the big names would be able to make money on merchandise while the rest of the team is left out to dry. Could create a tad of friction.
I haven’t heard too many stories where someone really talented dropped out of school because he couldn’t deal with a lack of spending money. They’re in school, like anyone else on any other myriad of scholarships. Do the good athletes make money for the school? I hope so. ‘Cuz then maybe tuitions costs wouldn’t be raised so much. If they’re that good a player, they’ll be making a ton of money shortly.
So they would only
put the names on the Jersey’s of some of the players? The guys who aren’t big names won’t be drafted anyways. They didn’t expect to make money playing football in the first place.
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
its not about them "doing fine"
Its about the disparity between what the coaches, school, ncaa ect. make off of a player who only potentially will make money at the next level. Every one of these guys has injury potential and they put it on the line while the school and TV outlets make millions off of them.
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
THe whole amateurism thing only worked...
before college sports became a billion dollar industry.
There needs to be an academy system for the American sports leagues similar to those in European soccer. This way the true amateurs can still play in college and the pros can go be pros.
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
you cant get payed
cause to be a college athlete, you have to be an amateur, and to be an amateur you cant get payed. it is as simple as that, and that rule is applied to every college sport, so football shouldnt be an exception. then the schools with the most money could buy the best players.
hmmmmm
The majority of colleges are occupied by actual students who are there to learn. So to give people a free college ride and then give them money would be a complete slap in the face to the kids who did there best in school studying for hours just to be able to be accepted to a university only to be broke for 15 years trying to pay off the loans it takes for normal people to go to college. I mean these people get jobs in the summer times, these people are not all rich, these people I am pretty sure would not like it if the most popular people on campus got paid on top of the free ride they get.
You're forgeting something
College sports, especially football and to a lesser extant basketball, bring in tons of money to their schools. How much money do you think USC made over the last decade from their football program? Yet the players who are helping to bring in all that money to the school are making only a tiny fraction of that revenue. It’s not about taking money from the hard working student and giving it to the popular student. It’s about sharing a little more of that revenue the student athlete is helping to generate.
And one more thing. Some students actually get scholarships based on their academics. My wife got a full ride all through college based solely on her academics. But unlike the student athlete, she wasn’t generating revenue for the school.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.

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