Best OLB?
by mikeinsp on Jul 26, 2010 8:29 PM PDT
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PrintThis is my first post, so bare with me. And thanks for reading.
In a 3-4 defense, the defensive lines are supposed to plug holes and pave ways for the linebackers, that's why they need to be good pass-rushers.
Everyone has their own opinion.
Some say it's Ahmad Brooks because of his great potential and pass rush ability. Others say Parys Haralson because he is our best pass-rusher. And what about Manny Lawson? While people say he isn't the big time pass-rusher we drafted him for, he is our best all-around outside linebacker. He is solid against the run, and pretty good at dropping back and doing pass coverage. But he doesn't get to the QB enough, but he is usually pressuring him. He just needs to learn how to finish and bring his target down.
Just want to know what you guys think.
Here's the statistical breakdown:
Haralson: 16 games(986 snaps), 45 tackles, 5 sacks, 0 forced fumbles, 2 pass deflections
Lawson: 16 games(852 snaps), 68 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 3 forced fumbles, 2 pass deflections
Brooks: 14 games(262 snaps), 21 tackles, 6 sacks, 5 forced fumbles, 2 pass deflections
My opinion is that it's Lawson. Agree or disagree, we can all agree that all 3 guys play an important role in the dominance of the front 7.
Thanks smileyman for providing the number of snaps each player took. It gives you a better perspective of what these guys accomplished in the actual amount of time they had. I can only imagine the level of complete dominance from Brooks had he got the same number of snaps as Haralson.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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Brooks: 14 games, 21 tackles, 6 sacks, 5 forced fumbles, 2 pass deflections
Did Brooks really play in 14 games?
He at best walked onto the field and took snaps in 14 games
But just saying he played 14 games is bending the truth to say the least
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 26, 2010 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions
guess that means he played a snap on d or special teams
it said 14 games, that is from the niners website
Um, how am i supposed to sign this thing? It's a computer?!
Yeah he did
but he sure didn’t start 14 games. For example, In the minnesota game he was in there maybe half a dozen plays.
Here’s a better way to look at it.
Haralson took 986 defensive snaps in 2009
Lawson took 852 defensive snaps in 2009
Brooks took a whopping 262 defensive snaps in 2009.
If Brooks had been a full-time starter like Lawson or Haralson he might easily have double-digit sacks and be pushing 80 tackles.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
first time I heard those numbers
interesting….
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
This is why I rank Brooks as our best OLB
He did almost as much as our starters in 1/3 the snaps
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
can not wait
to see this dude all year
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
No votes?
thats a bit funny that parys doesnt have no votes so far
Um, how am i supposed to sign this thing? It's a computer?!
tough to say b/c each guy has his strengths and weaknesses
Haralson, best combination of pass rush and coverage
Lawson, best Linebacker—pass coverage, most active, etc.
Brooks: best raw athlete and most upside as a pass rusher.
Of that lot, I chose Lawson, but I could be convinced otherwise.
I'm just not sure how much worse what Vick did than what "Ben" did. Glad he's not a Niner.
it depends on what you value
i have always liked Manny’s game, i remember watching him opposite Mario Williams on a ridiculous NC State pass rush that ruined my Hokies on several occasions. He has all the tools to be a 2nd tier OLB in the league (same range as Keith Brooking when he had speed). His coverage skills help solve some of our issues with short routes and he has enough athleticism to get off the edge and get to the QB. But if you’re looking at ceiling, you have to go with Ahmad. Being a Virginia native I’ve seen him for a long time and I have to say, I thought he would be a Pro Bowler by now. I remember his signature during college was to time the snap and jump over the O-line, snagging the QB’s feet and getting the sack before he got into his drop. He did this all the time. That is pure athleticism and football awareness. I think this is gonna be a breakout year where he asserts himself as the next Joey Porter. This defense is one elite pass rusher away from being the best in the league, and I think we have him. The more he works with Mike and understands his job on the field, the quicker his transition to everydown player will be.
"In basketball -- as in life -- true joy comes from being fully present in each and every moment, not just when things are going your way." -Phil Jackson
I'm gonna need to wait untill week 5
I’m anxious to see how Brooks has improved, and what his new repertoire of pass rush moves offers off the edge. Also it will be interesting to see if he plays on 1st and 2nd downs.
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
the snaps count is misleading
Lawson: 852 snaps / 68 tackles = 1 tackle every 12.5 plays.
Brooks: 262 snaps/ 21 tackles = 1 tackle every 12.4 plays.
Haralson: 986 snaps/ 45 tackles= 1 tackle every 21.1 plays.
Now if you add the snaps count up for Lawson and Brooks up to around Haralson snap count. They both be pushing 80 tackles. around 75- 79 tackles. give or take. The sacks. I would take a wait and see. What help brooks last year is teams study Haralson and Lawson. They didn’t study Brooks. Now that he made some impact comeing off the bench. They be studying him too. Haralson is the weak link in the group. But what keeping Brooks out of the starting job is his cover skills. To make the 3-4 work. You need your linebackers to cover. He just can’t do.
For a 3-4 to work,
you also need your linebackers to be able to shed blocks, set the edge, and generate a consistent pass rush. Lawson is pretty bad at all three of those things while Brooks and Haralson get the job done.
Another thing, tackle numbers do not equal a good linebacker.
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jul 28, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
just a small caveat
they can equal a good linebacker, but not at the numbers these guys are talking. I’ll happily take a guy making 150+ tackles a year even if he does nothing else. (If you have 150+ tackles a year you’re gonna have 20 or so tackles for a loss too.) But that’s double the production we’re talking about from these guys.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 29, 2010 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions
We rarely dropped our OLBs back in coverage last year
and when we did it was almost exclusively Lawson, with Haralson out in favor of McDonald.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Also forced fumbles
Brooks had 5 forced fumbles in 1/3rd the snaps
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 29, 2010 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions
I thought it was 4 ff.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Aug 1, 2010 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Shed blocks, set the edge and generate a consistent pass rush
Haralson side gave up the most screen passes and was killed by tenn all day by the run. If Haralson is such great at all those things. Why was his side always giveing up the big runs and screens? Why he didn’t have more sacks then Lawson. Haralson was on the field more then 100 plays and he still could not produce. It kills me that people in the nfl is so highly on the niners front seven and Lawson name is normally said of one of the young riseing stars on the team. And the fans think he sucks. That Brooks have one ok year in sacks. With 6. His first two years he have a total of 2. Haralson that was on the feild more then any OLB on the team. Have the least amount of sacks. Brooks almost have half the total of tackles Haralson have with 700 plays on the feild less then him? Lawson not the problem. It’s Haralson. Brooks and Lawson would be better then Haralson and Brooks. But Brooks cover skills need to get better. For the 3-4 to work. The linbackers need to be able to cover while the other linebacker bliz.
Smileyman
Why is that smileyman? Because Lawson is the best in cover, Hold his own in the run. Can he work on his pash rushing. Yes. Is he getting better. Yes he is. Each full season he played his sacks went up. What hurt Lawson is. He might be a 4 year nfl player. But he only really played 3 years. Torn ACL in his 2 year.
Lawson can't hold his own in the run
read my week by week reports. He only does one out of those three things well and he doesn’t do that one good enough to be considered a top OLB (like he seems to think he is).
BTW, you might want to use the reply button—it helps keep conversations flowing better.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Lawson
well not everyone agrees with you on that.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8193ef39/article/nfc-look-has-saints-cowboys-with-a-wealth-of-bluechippers
Um, how am i supposed to sign this thing? It's a computer?!
In my experience
most of the people who write for the NFL don’t actually watch all the games for the teams they write about
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
In my expierence
they are paid to cover nfl teams, they probably have seen more and know more about the players then just us fans. he also has alot more sources then us. so i trust their opinions, well atleast most of them.
Um, how am i supposed to sign this thing? It's a computer?!
I don't
They don’t have time to watch every game like the fans do—they’re too busy getting ready for their shows or writing up articles about different teams.
The beat writers OTOH have much more access than these national guys and just like us watch all the games, often more than once.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
they also
show no bias to the teams(well maybe a little)
Um, how am i supposed to sign this thing? It's a computer?!
Which is why I really like Maiocco
He’s not a 49ers fan.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Aug 1, 2010 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he does a great job with the reporting
his analysis seems to be off
He was the one who broke the McC ouster
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
I think he has gone down hill...
Since his move to CSN. He used to be my favorite beat reporter, I’m not sure anymore though. Of course I could just be hating on him because of the terrible site design of http://www.csnbayarea.com/pages/niners It is especially bad if you do any surfing on mobile devices. That worthless flash based score tracker at the bottom of the screen always messes up on my phone and covers a couple of lines of text. Its not like he can control how the website is designed though.
I feel you on the site layout
That little blue line is really annoying.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Aug 2, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
I hate that most of his stuff is video now
not written. I’d rather have him go back to the writing. And yeah, i agree about the site layout—horrible.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
And the Crabtree stuff too
He was running after Crabtree and met MC Hammer.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Aug 2, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes he is
i read on one of his chats he was aksed if he grew up a niner fan, and he answered yes he did. im pretty sure he is the one that said that.
Um, how am i supposed to sign this thing? It's a computer?!
A year or so ago
He said he wasn’t
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Aug 2, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
I think by this time next year
the answer will be Bowman. Just a gut feeling.
by remembertheCATCH on Jul 30, 2010 6:48 PM PDT reply actions
why do you say that?
do u mean if lawson leaves(please no) they wuld slide him outside. haralson and (hopefully) lawson will be there next year. if lawson’s gone:( then brooks wuld become starter. bowman is most likely going to be starting next year at mlb next to willis.
Um, how am i supposed to sign this thing? It's a computer?!
He'll be playing ILB
Although I really thought he was going to be put at OLB when I saw the tweet that he was drafted.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"
by SportsChicken on Aug 1, 2010 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Parys said he'll get 20 sacks.
Brooks said he’ll get 20 sacks.
Man, we are going to have a lot of sacks.
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
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