What's Your Confidence Level For Anthony Davis?
by James Brady on Jul 27, 2010 12:45 PM PDT
in San Francisco 49ers News
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PrintNow we start getting to the offensive linemen. Obviously we're not going to be voting on a lot of stats or things like that. Do keep in mind that these confidence levels are for this coming season, not the future. For instance, if you think Anthony Davis will end up being a pro bowl player, but you definitely think his first season will be marred with growing pains, then you'd vote a medium, etc.
Anthony Davis was our first pick in this past draft. We traded up a couple spots just to get him. One might think, considering all of that, he'll be a very good player. Well, it's probably true, but it's debatable whether or not he'll find immediate success. Davis is young, and in the months leading up to the draft, literally sailed up and down draft boards. Teams liked his ceiling, others were put-off by how raw he was. Some teams liked his attitude, others were worried about the lack of effort in training, conditioning and the like.
Well so far I think he's turned out to be a pretty cool guy, and I haven't personally heard of any attitude problem since we drafted him. I believe he's been working out well, all of that good stuff. I think we can all agree he has a pretty high ceiling (unless your name is Drew K). But how raw is he? What kind of growing pains are there going to be? Should we be starting him right away? Make the jump for your voting criteria.
Very High: Starting him was the right course of action, he is automatically an upgrade over Adam Snyder at right tackle. I don't know that it's even within the scope of reality to project a pro bowl for the guy his first year but this is as close to it as we'll get. He's dominating, he's good.
High: Not as good as very high, but again, starting him was the right option. He makes some mistakes, but he's still a vast improvement over Snyder at RT. Just a really good player at this point.
Medium: Definitely raw. He makes mistakes, rookie mistakes. He's inconsistent, and gets beat quite a bit - but he still shows flashes of why he was picked where he was. After this 'medium' year, he is still locked in as the starter, after all, it was to be expected that he'd struggle, right?
Low: He plays a lot worse than most of us think he would. Not necessarily as bad as Snyder, but you know. Either he loses his starting job, or he just doesn't perform, but he is kept in as experience for the future. He also may show some other, off-the-field issues.
Very Low: Kwame Harris
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Low
Because I’ve already heard he’s behind Iupati in the learning curve, he has had weight issues before as well as inconsistent playing in college. I think he’s a boom or bust player, with little to no potential to just be mediocre. I pray he can be the beast we need, but I’m not nearly as confident with him as with Iupati.
Medium
I’ve heard the same reports, but I’ve also heard that he came into the rookie camp not in nfl practice shape, but busted his butt in the conditioning program and was not kept out of anything due to conditioning at a latter camp.
I believe he’s proven willing and able to work hard, and that will determine his future more than anything else.
Medium
He’ll make mistakes and be inconsistent because he’s a rookie.
"Dodger fans aren’t happy when foul balls get into their section, because it interferes with their playing with the beachball"- Mike Krukow
by 49er16 on Jul 27, 2010 2:18 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
High
I only say that, because he seems to have the will and the drive at this time. The reports out of college said was inconsistent at times.but…. This being the big stage, the one that will set or fail his career he has to have the drive…..Remember that clown that failed in Oakland, is still fresh in players minds.
R.L.
High
Definitely an upgrade over Synder and will be pretty good. Of course some mistakes will happen because he is a rookie. Should be fun to watch if Davis plays well then we will have a great season.
In other new's ...
… T O sign’s with Cincy …!!
Gotta love a woman that wear's knee pad's to work ...!!
I voted medium
Mainly because I think teams will attack him all game and he will have a hard time with it, especially at first. But I’m secretly hoping that he has a Michael Oher type rookie year.
I’m looking forward to the Colts pre-season game because I’m pretty sure Mathis is on that side. It should give us a good idea of how he handles a good pash rusher in a game like environment, even if it’s only for one quarter.
I can't wait for Mango's sig to say "0 days to go".
Good point.
Makes preseason kind of exciting!
by mr. instigator on Jul 27, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Medium
I think he’ll struggle in the first half of the season, but improve every game and by year 2 or 3 he’ll be our best linemen.
Um, how am i supposed to sign this thing? It's a computer?!
Medium to high
I think he’ll easily be an improvement over Snyder but he’ll struggle because he’s a rookie and he’ll be targeted by opposing DCs (This is where Rachal is gonna have to step up). I expect that as he gets better and more comfortable he’ll start showing more and more flashes of being great.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
by smileyman on Jul 27, 2010 4:21 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Like ive been saying
Chilo Rachal will be the biggest reason the 49ers offensive succeeds or fails.
by asmithisaverage on Jul 27, 2010 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Is that a joke?
Rachal? Really? Not the quarterback? Not the TWO rookies on the line? Not our players being in the same system finally?
You’re saying Chilo Rachal will be the determining factor if our offense is good or not?
Wow…..
by crumpedup15 on Jul 27, 2010 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions
it all starts on the offensive line
Follow the logic:
- Alex Smith’s upside is limited by the o-line his entire career (or he is indeed a below average qb)
- Davis and Iupati are rookies and will make mistakes and have bouts with inconsistency.
- Staley and Heitmann are above average and should continue to be, but their play alone hasn’t pushed the offense into the top tier
- Rachal, at the end of last year, showed marked improvement in pass plays and the Niners began to trust him as a pulling guard. If he has a consistently pro-bowl caliber year the Niners should make a deep playoff run if everyone else meets expectations.
ps: I like how you suggest two rookies and/or the same players being in the system will be the reason. Those somewhat mitigate themselves.
by asmithisaverage on Jul 28, 2010 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Being a rookie doesn't mean a thing
Joe Thomas as an All-Pro his rookie year. Michael Oher was a pro bowler. Iupati could very well come in and dominate at that level. Davis will need more time if he ever makes it. But Iupati alone will be a bigger reason than Rachel
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 28, 2010 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
I hope you're right
But I see Davis as more of a project than Thomas or Oher. He’s free to prove me wrong. Rachal working the same side as Davis will be a huge factor in Davis’ success I suspect.
by asmithisaverage on Jul 28, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I like that
Davis “will need time if he ever makes it” but Iupati “could very well come in and dominate at that level.” So there is no possibility that Iupati struggles?
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jul 28, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Then look up stuff from the Senior Bowl. He was abused by the other senior talent.
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jul 29, 2010 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Playing TACKLE
The guy never took a rep at tackle in his career before the senior bowl. He was fine playing his natural position.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 29, 2010 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions
He did not play TACKLE during the Senior Bowl game
when Geno Atkins abused him all game long.
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jul 29, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
He did most of the week in practice.
And RG. Like I said below. Watch. There will be absolutely no problem with him here. The difference between him and Davis is this. Iupati has faced adversity, he came to America as an ESL student and struggled mightily and because of that played in a tiny school with subpar coaching. (The guy was about to go to a JC when Idaho discovered him at a JC event.) 5 years later he was still the #1 lineman prospect in the draft.
Davis has had all the natural talent in the world too but has never done anything with it and played downright lousy at times at Rutgers, (who while not Iowa does have a big school coaching staff), against teams like Army and FIU. Davis is the one on bust watch.
Iupati with good coaching will fix himself quick as he’s already had to work hard in life. Davis has been doing just enough to coast by on natural abilities. Davis is gonna have a lot more work to do. Work I seriously doubt he’ll make the continued effort to complete.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 29, 2010 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Iupati was not abused during the game itself
The reports of him getting abused were during the practices when he was lined up at tackle.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Exactly.
And this has NOTHING to do with me being a homer. I believed before the draft only lineman in the draft with more talent was Suh and Iupati was right there in talent with McCoy.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 29, 2010 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Which if you read between the lines
Both Suh, McCoy and Iupati all have HoF potential and are all NFL ready. They have to cash in on it but each guy is a once a decade kind of talent. There was no OTs I saw in this draft at that rarified level though there were 3 that could be high level starter/pro bowl caliber sometime soon in Okung, Williams (if he can work out that whole left/right thing), and Bulaga. And then there is Davis who has shown absolutely nothing to convince me he’s NFL ready.
Davis could maybe sometime down the road be the best out of those 4 but its a big project. Its like we drafted Jared Allen out of college with the #11 pick. He’s the best now… but he damn sure wasn’t ready to take that roll when he came out though.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 29, 2010 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions
It's true that Iupati did not do well when lined up at tackle
However, he played LG and RG during the Senior Bowl game where Iupati could not stop Geno Atkins. You may not call it abuse, but he definitely was not dominant in the Senior Bowl.
Here are Iupati’s Highlights/Lowlights from the Senior Bowl game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1I9VDf1bFI
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jul 29, 2010 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions
he does have a pretty good chip blocking TE next to him
if they want to come hard at him and give it away, we can make them pay.
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
I can see it now
Defenses stack the right side to harass Davis and Gore busts long run after long run on the left.
Alternatively we can run my favorite VD play which is him chip blocking a guy and then going out all on his lonesome for a big pass.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
i think Davis most likely gets beat inside early
so picking up a rogue defender would be easier in that case
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
Low
Thankfully it will be Nate Davis that gets injured when A. Davis whiffs on Mathis in the preseason.
Gimme 1 round!
Nate Davis
is too awesome to get injured
I don’t think that at all… and of course this is all speculation on your behalf
by Drew K on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM PDT
Nate Davis is pretty good at avoiding the sack and getting the ball away.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
Hard to avoid a sack
When your OLine completely whiffs on an out/in move and he has a clean shot. Its gonna happen.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 27, 2010 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions
That happened several times last year in preseason.
Just saying.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
by James Brady on Jul 27, 2010 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions
It wasn't a monster like Mathis doing it last year either
Nate Davis – coming soon to an injured reserve near you. At least it wasn’t our good QB.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 28, 2010 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe I am missing something here
Robert Mathis – 1st team
Nate Davis – 3rd team
Anthony Davis – ?
If Robert Mathis is going to put anyone on injured reserve, wouldn’t be the “good” QB running with the first team?
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jul 28, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Alex won't see much more than a quarter
and it will be with Snyder who at least doesn’t WHIFF at RT. By the time Davis is in to whiff it will likely be with Davis at QB.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 28, 2010 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions
ya
Davis colledge tape shows him getting beat over and over on double moves. Mathis isn’t some average player, he’s a beast.
by crumpedup15 on Jul 27, 2010 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions
yup
He whiffs at least once a game and then gives up… And that was against collegiate guys. Not Mathis. Say a prayer that A. Smith doesn’t stay in that game long and its Nate Davis that takes that hit and has another 8 months to work on learning another offensive playset
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 28, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
That would solidify J-Brown in there as option three.
"I'm blessed..... Thanks, God bless" ...hey, it worked for Tim Tebow.
It's going to be a learning curve season
I don’t think he’ll be a day one starter, and that’s ok. I think, midpoint through the season, he will get some serious playing time, and he will grow, and make some mistakes along the way. He’ll be green, but talented, and by the end of December, he will have made enough strides that he will flash signs of being worthy of where we drafted him. High seems too high for THIS season, and medium doesn’t account for how good he will be in two years.
Come this January however, I think he will be at least a solid starting lineman for our playoff run. Hopefully by then too, Iupati will be crushing people, and Rachal will be in contention for a “most improved 49er” award.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
Voted "Low". I know James thinks of me as a "Davis Hater"
But that’s untrue. I just see him as more of a project than anything else. It really would not surprise me to see someone else in starting at RT when the season starts. But with Solari in there now, the development may progress faster than it would’ve with Foerster there. I personally think that he held Chilo Rachal back a bit.
"I'm blessed..... Thanks, God bless" ...hey, it worked for Tim Tebow.
I agree about Foerster and Rachal
and I don’t know who else we’d get to start at RT. Not the god-awful Snyder—Even Davis as somewhat of a project player and a rookie would be better than Snyder.
I guess they might swing Staley over there and have Sims at LT to start off the season or vice versa even.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Except his biggest drawback
is that he WHIFFS and then gives up. That gets QBs put on the IR. Snyder is horrible but at least he doesn’t whiff on inside moves
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 27, 2010 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't forget how bad Iupati is in pass protection
If Davis WHIFFS once a game and Iupati WHIFFS a blitz pick up every game, we’ll have no QBs left by the end of the season that we will just run the ball the entire game.
FULL-TIME WILDCAT = FTW!
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jul 28, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Iupati isn't bad in pass protection
he has a tendency to grab ahold of people, but he doesn’t let them through
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Correct
The only problem Iupati will have is a technique issue that isn’t nearly as hard to fix as Davis’ horrible foot placement. Iupati just needs to be taught to punch more instead of maintaining contact on pass blocking.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 28, 2010 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions
He is not good in pass protection either
There are times he holds because he is late for a blitz pick up. Don’t forget that Iupati will be facing faster and stronger LBs in the NFL, so he may miss entirely if he does not recognize the blitzer early. If he struggles with this, defensive coordinators would exploit that by sending guys on a delayed blitz.
And Iupati was not exactly dominant at the Senior Bowl either. When going against Cardinals 1st round pick Dan Wiliams, Williams stood Iupati up repeatedly. Against 4th round pick Geno Atkins, Atkins was disruptive in the backfield, got one sack, and held twice by Iupati (only called once though). When facing the top senior players, Iupati was not as impressive as hyped and what was more disturbing was how poorly he played against a smaller, quicker DT who should be a guy he chucks away with a single arm. However, those were when he was playing right guard instead of left, so he does make some difference and his problems are coachable. Still, holding this belief that Iupati as polished as a rookie can be would be a mistake. To me, Iupati is as raw as Davis is.
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jul 29, 2010 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions
You'll see during the season
You’re saying he didn’t play well at Tackle and RG. The guy is a LG switching positions to play against the All-stars of the deepest draft in history on 1 week notice after having never played those positions.
Anthony Davis didn’t play well at his natural position against dudes from Army and FIU
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 29, 2010 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Those observations are just from the Senior Bowl game while playing RG
“All-stars from the deepest draft in history”? How are those guys much better than the NFL talent he will be facing now? How many excuses are you going to make for the guy? And if you read, I did attribute some of his problems to a switch of sides. Even with the switch though, he is still going to see power DTs (Cardinals 1st Rd pick Dan Williams) and speed rushers (Geno Atkins) at LG. I guess I just like to hold my expectations to a realistic standard than wear the homer goggles where Iupati is this all-powerful blocking god coming out of college.
Here is what Matt Borrows had to say about Iupati in the Senior Bowl game:
Iupati had a strange game. He looked very good at left guard. On a touchdown run by Oregon’s LaGarrette Blount (who looked great), for example, Iupati chipped on one of the defensive linemen and then made a block on a linebacker at the second level of the defense. It was a nice showcase of his strength and athleticism. When he moved to right guard, however, he struggled. He had two bad plays in a row early in the game and was flagged for an obvious holding penalty that negated a touchdown. He had a hard time both with power rushers – Tennessee’s Dan Williams – and speed rushers, Georgia’s Geno Atkins. Atkins, in fact, spun free of Iupati later in the first half for a quarterback sack. Entering the game, the announcers were raving that Iupati could play five positions on the offensive line. Maybe he can, but today he was only good at one – left guard.
Read more: http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2010/01/graham-flashes.html#ixzz0v78hAAHs
by ZeroOneInfinity on Jul 29, 2010 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow... Um you just confirmed every thing I said
At his natural position he did fine. THE POSITION HE WILL BE PLAYING ON THE NINERS.
HELLO? MCFLY? ANYBODY HOME?
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 29, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Also, I never heard anybody that actually watched him say - OH YAH!!! He can play every position at a high level without having ever tried
The guy has never played any other position. He has the physical tools to play all 5 positions was what was said. His arms are long enough to play tackle 34 and some fraction inches. His feet are fast enough to play tackle. But um. HE’S NEVER DONE IT. Wow he got beat by guys that will be stars in the pros at positions he’s never played before.
Seriously dude. facepalm hardcore facepalm
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 29, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
ABIOF
Let’s not leave Alex Boone completely out of the picture. He is part of a year ahead of the rookies, and I agree that it is not a given that Davis starts. It will be interesting to watch the evolution of the RT position as training camp and exhibition season progresses.
by seafood lover on Jul 28, 2010 7:20 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not sure how much they are going to experiment at the position
but I assume that it will be a three man competition and the best man will get the job.
"I'm blessed..... Thanks, God bless" ...hey, it worked for Tim Tebow.
You're a Davis basher at the very least.
You didn’t like the pick. Either way, I really, really don’t care.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
I'm really, really not.
I didn’t feel like getting into it with Drew is all. I don’t like arguing with the guy.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
by James Brady on Jul 27, 2010 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I feel you
But I just want to know you care…
by mr. instigator on Jul 27, 2010 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I care about you.
Baby.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
by James Brady on Jul 27, 2010 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Im sorry you feel that way.
However, if I was TRULY a “hater”, wouldn’t I have voted for the lowest option? Furthermore, I actually have made some positive comments on Davis if you have really paid attention. I can expand on the reasons why I dont think he will be very good initially and probably for a while if you care to know them. If its easier for you to just label me whatever you are and dont care to have an intelligent and productive conversation then I guess it is what it is. Bottom line is that Anthony Davis is a 49er and I hope with everything that he pans out to be a 1st Rd talent.
"I'm blessed..... Thanks, God bless" ...hey, it worked for Tim Tebow.
The Niners have high hopes for Davis!
The moved up in the draft to get him. They must have seen something in his workouts or at the combine that makes the Niners FO think he is something special. I dont know if he is going to be an immediate success, so I voted medium. If there was a vote between medium and high, I would have voted medium/high. If he is a immediate success, the Niners will have a very good year. I think the Niners season will succeed or fail based on the play of the 2 rookies we have on the offensive line. Chilo Rachal is still very young too, so that is 3/5ths of our OL as rookies and youngsters. If they gel and come together quickly, then the Niners will be well on their way to a successful season. The defense will keep us in games because we do have a top 5 defense. But at some point, the offense is going to have to kick it into gear and pull their weight. Hopefully that happens sooner rather than later. I believe the young linemen will be successful in the running game to start, and then gradually improve in their pass protection. If the OL can give Alex more time than he had last year to throw the ball, the Niners will win a lot of games. But if Smith is on his backside every time he goes back to pass, it will be a very long year.
Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!
Medium to Low
Rawness will definitely play a factor. But my chief worry with Davis early on is that he’s only 20. He’s a kid playing a man’s position in a man’s league. I have a hard time imagining any 20 year old playing any position in the NFL and experiencing a lot of success. Mentally and physically I imagine it will be a tough season for him. Hopefully the coaching staff really schemes to protect him when he’s in there.
Baalke said this tonight about the rookies
Davis, Iupati and Mays have been at the 49ers facility working out every single day since the end of the offseason program.
I think that speaks wonders to their determination and work ethic.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Next year, we're gonna be the 2007 New York Giants
Think about it; our offensive line will be coming together this year, and should be great by next year. Our offense as a whole will continue to be solid. And our defense will be nasty, with, hopefully by then, more pass rush. That’s a good formula to, in the words of Michael Strahan, stomp people out.
Needs: Better cornerbacks, someone to dominate as a pass rusher, and proven depth at running back. Mark it on your calendars, Lombardi #6 comes along February 2012…assuming there’s a season.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Jul 27, 2010 10:57 PM PDT reply actions
I love the username.
And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.
by James Brady on Jul 27, 2010 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions
@ Ninjames
Thanks. I met Ronnie Lott several years ago, and he was great. Now, we just need Mays to do a decent impression of him for the next decade.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
What about...
…Sims or Boone to temporarily hold the RT spot while Davis grows into it (hopefully quickly)? There seems to be universal consensus that Snyder is not a good option, and Sims was rock solid last year filling in for Staley, playing arguably a tougher position. Are the positions so different that we should expect Sims wouldn’t be able to handle it with equal success?
not vastly different
just you want a run mauling big guy on the right side and a quick skilled guy on the QBs blindside. If we had a left-handed QB the positions would be reversed.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 28, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
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