CFL on the NFL Network: Is this the development league the NFL is looking for?
by Andrew Davidson on Jul 7, 2010 7:00 AM PDT
in San Francisco 49ers News
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PrintIt's a game deep into the CFL Season, and the NFL Network has officially aired it's first game (July 1: Montreal Aoulletes @ Saskatchewan Roughriders in the Grey Cup rematch). More than a year ago Roger Goodell made it know the NFL is in need of a developmental league since NFL Europe folded. With the NFL's decision to air CFL games, is this a sign the NFL is targeting the CFL to become the new NFL Europe? Take a closer look at the writing on the wall and tell me what you think:
Some of its most recognizable alumni include former NFL quarterbacks Warren Moon, Doug Flutie, Joe Theismann, and Joe Kapp, and legendary coach Bud Grant. Moon and Grant are members of both the Canadian Football Hall of Fame and the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
This is straight from NFL.com's announcing the CFL's debut on its network. The NFL is showing potential viewers the history of talent that has already come from the CFL to the NFL. The Canadian League's history is rich with fairy tale-like stories, and the blurb doesn't even mention our own Jeff Garcia. Garcia came to the 49ers from the Calgary Stampeders and became one of the greats in San Francisco history, setting the single season franchise record for most passing yards (4278 in 2000, Garcia's second season). While the former Stampeder/49er may not go into the Hall of Fame the point remains relevant: CFL players have had success in the NFL as an independent league. If the NFL brands it to the U.S. market, things could take off for the new Europa.
NFL Network adds the fast-paced, wide-open CFL football action that features familiar names from U.S. college football.
That's all the proof I need to speculate the NFL is considering adopting the CFL. Familiar names from U.S. college football. Obviously the NFL wants to market the CFL to have success on its station, but at the same time the NFL isn't doing itself a disservice by thinking the CFL could eventually farm for the League. On the same note, neither would the CFL. At the very least, becoming the NFL's farm system would allow a neutral site in the U.S. for the CFL Championship game, the Grey Cup. It could also mean the league expands into the U.S., something that was already attempted miserably in the early 90s. However, with the NFL "owning" the CFL, both leagues would gain. The NFL would get a well-established football league, and the CFL would reap financial gain.
Thoughts?
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Not happening.
CFL fans are highly protective of their league, and the CFL officials know it. So if they sold their souls to the NFL, the fans could easily turn their backs on the CFL.
You don’t have to go farther then a CFL message board or blog to see how much disdain many CFL fans have for the NFL.
Also the CFL would probably have to adopt a 4-down, 11 men per side, regulation NFL field to become any sort of NFL development system; which isn’t happening.
The UFL seems like a more likely target for a development league. The CFL is too independent and different from the NFL.
I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff
It's official: I'm a Buster Posey fan..... Who isn't?
by Hoopers Judge on Jul 7, 2010 7:16 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Also the CFL would probably have to adopt a 4-down, 11 men per side, regulation NFL field to become any sort of NFL development system; which isn’t happening.
I don’t think that would have to happen at all. The CFL officials may know how highly protective the CFL fans are of “their” game, but don’t think for one second the CFL officials don’t want to put their hands in the cookie jar that is NFL revenue.
by Andrew Davidson on Jul 7, 2010 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Eh.
I still don’t know if the CFL could develop NFL players at all positions.
For example, not many power backs are going to develop in Canada. It’s also a passing league, so you’re going to probably find smaller, more agile linemen who focus on pass protection and less run blocking.
Hypothetically, the Niners would probably regret sending Anthony Davis and Mike Iupati to the CFL for training/development. Their both too big.
Of course, I could be totally wrong.
I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff
It's official: I'm a Buster Posey fan..... Who isn't?
by Hoopers Judge on Jul 7, 2010 3:27 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
A good point
Consider this: An NFL team has a talented RB that struggles in pass protection and pass catching. In today’s NFL, you need to not only be a good runner, but an asset to the passing game. That RB gets sent to the CFL to work on the passing related skills of his position and could in turn develop into a complete back.
Another scenario: Say Mike Iupati becomes an absolute monster run-blocking, but seriously suffers in pass protection and agility. He gets sent to the CFL to work on pass protection and footwork.
Another thing to consider is that NFL teams weren’t really sending First Round talent over to NFL Europe, it was more of a place for UDFA and late round selections. If a first round talent had been sent to NFL Europe, chances are that player already had enough chances in the NFL to improve, but couldn’t and the team still wanted to see if that player could develop.
by Andrew Davidson on Jul 7, 2010 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions
The CFL season starts earlier then the NFL.
So if a team wants to risk it, they could send their entire draft class to a pre-determined CFL team during the almost 2 months difference between the opening days of the two leagues. The rookies can play 2-3 professional games before the NFL training camps even start.
Though that might be a problem because the rookies would have a week to learn their CFL teams playbook then less the 2 months later start learning their NFL teams playbook. So the NFL/CFL players would have to spend a certain amount of time in each league before they could be allowed to switch to the other.
I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff
It's official: I'm a Buster Posey fan..... Who isn't?
by Hoopers Judge on Jul 7, 2010 7:15 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Draft picks wouldn’t even be signed in time for the start of the CFL season, and like I said, the NFL wasn’t sending 1st rounders (or high profile guys) over to NFL Europe, I doubt it would change with the CFL. We’d see 1 or 2 guys per team, mostly made up of UDFAs and late round selections.
by Andrew Davidson on Jul 7, 2010 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions
That's why NFL Europe worked so well
it’s season was played during the summer so if a player did well he could be brought up for the regular season.
I think any developmental league will have to play during the NFL’s off-season.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
+1
UFL is fun to watch. I love football and the UFL just feels like a pro leauge. I know it is a pro leauge but so was the XFL, and they look really bad out there. The UFL also had a few players come back into the NFL at the end of their season to finish out the NFL schedule.
by ericalancanty on Jul 7, 2010 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I voted no...
But only because I can’t get NFLN where I live…
Wow that's really the point.
jerking hand motion
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 7, 2010 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions
The UFL looks to be a more promising development league
1. Pat Devlin QB 2. Jack Crawford DE/OLB 3. Kendric Burney CB 4. DeAndre Brown WR 5. John Estes C 6. Chris Hairston OT 7. Stephfon Green RB 7. Julian Posey CB
Agreed
I’m not well versed on the history of CFL players coming to the NFL, but the two that immediately come to mind are Garcia and Warren Moon. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that both are QB’s, so that might be telling of the typical player that the CFL would be good for developing.
39 days to go. . .
Thank gawd ...
… we broke the forty day barrier .. As far as the Cfl goes i’d watch it . but no cable here = ( … !!
Gotta love a woman that wear's knee pad's to work ...!!
As a 10 year CFL season ticket holder,
I found the tone of this post very arrogant and borderline offensive. The message I took from it was if the NFL wants the CFL to be it’s developmental league, it will happen, af if it can force what it wants on others.
I’ve followed the CFL very closely since childhood and I can tell you that the league, owners, and fans do not want this. The soul and pride of the league is that it showcases Canadian talent and promotes Canadian football player development. Did you know that each team must adhere to an import/non-import ratio rule? Each team is allowed 46 players on its active roster, 4 of those players dont dress for the game leaving 42 players active. The Qbs(3) dont count against the ratio, so out of the remaining 39 players, 20 of them must be Canadians. A player like Ricky Foley of the Seahawks is a perfect example. Hes currently being featured on NFL network as one of the players on the bubble of making the team. Without the ratio rule, he would have likely never had the opportunity to be where he is now. The developmental programs and shere population difference between the two countries would simply drown out Canadian talent.
And the NFL DOES NOT own the CFL. The CFL obtained a loan from the NFL when it was in financial hardship in the late 90’s. In return the CFL allowed NFL team to sign CFL players in the option year of their contracts. This agreement expired in 2008 when the loan was repaid.
“At the very least, becoming the NFL’s farm system would allow a neutral site in the U.S. for the CFL Championship game, the Grey Cup”…… Do you honestly believe this would happen? The Grey Cup is the Superbowl of Canada. Would you expect all games to be played on Canadian soil and infront of Canadian fans and then every year take the Championship game and hold it in U.S?
Do you just assume the CFL and the fans will jump at the opportunity to become a farm system for American players if the NFL is willing to let them? The rules and structure of the CFL are the principles the league is built on and the pride we Canadians have for the game plays a big part in making it viable. To think we would give it up and change the entire game because the NFL so gracefully came calling is absurd and ill-informed.
post
I actually wouldn’t call it all that arrogant. I think that rather, Andrew is pointing to evidence that the NFL might be considering trying to turn the CFL into a developmental league. And if you think about it, clearly the NFL has to have at least thought about trying to make it happen. Maybe not all that seriously, but to say the NFL has never discussed the idea of working with the CFL in a developmental capacity would be a little foolish.
I think Andrew is just pointing out that there is evidence the NFL might be trying to eventually make this happen. Maybe it will never actually happen. But given the way the league is promoting this, what’s to say they’re not considering it?
by David Fucillo on Jul 7, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Im not disagreeing with the fact that they may want this or may try to get it to happen. And its probably in the NFL’s best interest. The tone I got from the article was that if the NFL wants it to happen it will happen, which is not true. If this were to happen, it would change the league entirely, change the structure, rules and identity of the CFL game. Probably the main feature of the league, is to promote/showcase/develop Canadian talent. What’s preventing this from happening is not the NFL deciding whether they want this or not, its the CFL and thats what I thought was arrogant.
The main reason why this wouldnt happen
is because the fans and therefore the owners would never go for it. There are 8 CFL teams and 32 NFL teams. So lets say each CFL team was affiliated with 4 NFL teams as a developmental medium. In order for these players to truly develop, the rules would have to be changed to NFL rules(field size, 3 downs to 4 downs etc) and with so many NFL teams and so few CFL teams the ratio for import/non-import would likely have to be eliminated.
Those main aspects of the CFL are what make it the CFL game and what drive fans to games. If you take those away you are essentailly re-creating a new league with the same team names and owners(if those even remain constant). At the end of the day, there would be such an uproar by Canadians, many would boycott games and attendances would plummit and the league just wouldnt be finacially viable. Financially, the league is doing better than it has in a long time, maybe ever, so this just seems highly unlikely.
And if they somehow did keep the same rules and ratio in effect, you are forcing players to play in a system or scheme they may not fit in. NFL teams and CFL teams are looking for different types of players and certain players who suceed in the NFL, dont in the CFL and vica versa. Ex. Ricky Williams was average at best in the CFL, where a scat back who wouldnt/couldnt make the NFL, could rip it up in the CFL because of the wide open field. If you force players to play in a system that doesnt put the best product on the field, you are doing the fans a disservice.
I don't agree about needing to change the rules
Stephen Neal came from friggin wrestling straight to the NFL when he didn’t make the Olympic team. Slightly different rule set there. College has different rules than the NFL and sometimes it takes a receiver a year or two to get used to getting both feet in but they adjust.
How does having 3 downs instead of 4 effect the players? It effects the game certainly but half the guys grew up playing with 4 downs. Maybe the D-line isn’t as good against the run because they are geared for the pass so much but I still don’t see it. Its a friggin number. It would effect any coaching staff you’re bringing in because they have been game-planning around 3 down games but not the players.
The 12 men thing would probably be the biggest obstacle for players… Except since the field is also bigger even that kinda evens out. Safeties and Corners still have to cover a lot of ground.
All around don’t buy the rules effecting player development. The difference isn’t NHL’s physical game to the Olympic’s nearly non-contact all skill game.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 7, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
The whole game caters to different players. You may already know this, but there is only 1 safety on the field(like the NFL equivalent free safety), 2 corners, and 2 halfbacks. Most NFL safeties and NCAA safeties who come to the CFL end up playing outside linebacker. The outside linebackers are usually around 200-215lbs because they have to be able to cover much more ground because the field is not only 10 yards longer, its 35 feet wider. And the RB’s are much smaller and quicker. Just like most NCAA/NFL OLB end up playing DE in the CFL and as 49ers fans know the transition inst always seemless. So say a 4-3 NFL team drafted an OLB out of NCAA and wanted him to play OLB for them, would they send him to the CFL to play DE and ‘develop’? You see WRs who are better open field runners and less big TD targets because of the field size and endzone size(20 yards as opposed to 10). Sometimes these players fit well, but if the CFL was an NFL farm system , they’d have to take what is given to them instead of being able to choose what fits for them.
It might be like playground football for some guys but they still develop skills and bust their ass in the gym and get paid for it.
Better than being on an NFL practice squad IMO.
Granted it takes adjustment time but a skilled guy can learn radically different schemes. And its a great GREAT FANTASTIC league to develop a QB because so much of the game is geared towards passing.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 7, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I think you misread the article
or missed the point entirely. I fail to see the arrogance you accuse me of (I’ve had to re-read the article to doulbe check). My point is that the CFL would gain financially if the NFL adopts it as the development league. I’m not suggesting changing the game at all. The CFL would remain what it is, only with the branding of the NFL as it’s big brother. Why are you paranoid that those rules would be changed?
If the NFL were to adopt the CFL as it’s development league, it would give more Canadian born players a chance to get noticed by the NFL scouts. It would also fatten the contracts CFL players earn (potentially) and give the entire league international exposure. The CFL has tried to invade the U.S. market in the past, there’s no denying they’d love to have a piece of that pie in the future. When the CFL had teams in the U.S. (which you may not be aware of since you’re “only” a 10-year ticket holder), I don’t remember the rules changing.
I’m pretty sure you missed the point entirely, and that’s cool, just take it easy on the bold accusations next time.
by Andrew Davidson on Jul 7, 2010 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
First off I just want to say that I have always enjoyed reading your posts/comments. If Im not mistaken, you use to post under ‘Dre’. Everything Ive seen you write has been top notch, well researched and insightful, I just didnt get that out of this. I wasnt trying to imply you are an arrogant person, I just thought the post had an arrogant tone, if that makes sense.
My personal opinion is that the CFL wouldnt work as a farm system for NFL teams, but that is not what I had the issue with. Any topic like that is worth a discussion. My problem was with the tone of the article which I took as being if the NFL decides it wants it, then it will happen. Comments like “the NFL is considering adopting the CFL”. It should say “the NFL may try to reach and agreement with the CFL”. And the comment about the NFL owning the CFL is flat out false.
Ive only had season tickets for 10 years, but Ive also said Ive followed it since I was a child. I do remember the US expansion that failed miserably and mentioned it in another comment. They had teams in Shrevport, Baltimore, Memphis, Las Vegas, Sacremento and maybe 1 more Im forgetting. The star of the Blatimore Colts, Mike Pringle went on to become one of the best rushers in CFL history.
I hear you, but I did say “That’s all the proof I need to speculate the NFL is considering adopting the CFL”.
Let’s be honest to ourselves, it’s the NFL that would adopt the CFL as its alternative talent pool. Yes both sides would have to agree, and I’m suggesting the NFL could just simply snap its fingers and make it happen, but the obvious fact here is that the NFL is the powerhouse and the CFL is the underground indie scene.
by Andrew Davidson on Jul 7, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Youre assuming the CFL would want that. One of the leagues primary objectives is developing/showcasing Canadian talent which is why 20 of the 39 players(not inc qb’s) dressed must be Canadian. If they drastically changed that or eliminated it, I think attendance would suffer. Im not sure how the league could be a farm system without changing that aspect.
When the NFL had NFL Europe, how many players were sent from NFL teams? I can’t remember the average (or if there was a cap), but I do know it wasn’t like teams were sending 10 guys at a time, more like 1 or 2.
The CFL becoming like the NFL Europe would allow the CFL to remain the same league it is, with the exception of the added talent pool NFL teams would have the option to send to the CFL. One thing to consider also, is that if the NFL and CFL join forces, is the CFL could expand it’s league to 10 teams, with those two additional teams made up entirely on NFL talent allocated to the CFL. That would keep the CFL’s rules in tact with its original 8 franchises, and exclude the two “american” franchises.
by Andrew Davidson on Jul 7, 2010 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions
May be worth looking into. The only additional players the CFL would have access to they currently dont are NFL practice squad players. The NFL could cut the PS for teams down to 5 or 6 players and allow teams a max of 1-2 players to play in the CFL that were ineligible to be signed by other NFL teams ala Kory Sheet.
I think if something like this were to happen, the player would have to stay in the CFL all season(until November) or else you would get players being called-up right before/during CFL playoffs.
There’s definitely a long list of things the two leagues would have to consider before this type of alliance could happn. Before any of that becomes possible, the CFL needs to have success in an American Market and the opportunity on the NFLN is the perfect stage.
by Andrew Davidson on Jul 7, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
The problem with this though is that if the player started the season with the CFL team(in june) he would miss the whole NFL off-season and training camp with the team and essentially not have the opportunity to make the final 53. And if they sent players down that didnt make the final 53 in September, they would be coming in 3/4 of the way through the CFL season when starters have been established. Football is the one sport you cant really jump right into, which is why there are so few mid-season trades. It takes time to learn the playbooks etc. With most other farm systems, like Baseball and Hockey the seasons coincide, so players can be sent down to the “minors” for the start of the season with little transition, unfortunately NFL-CFL is different
that’s a good point, but it’s something the leagues could get around if they really wanted to make things work. CFL players would not be eligible for the NFL until the CFL season ends, and the NFL would choose which players are sent to the CFL at the end of the NFL season, not training camp. That way, the NFL guys can get to the franchise in the CFL and spend an offseason working with that team, getting accustomed to the system and style of football.
by Andrew Davidson on Jul 7, 2010 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions
This I could see working. The NFL team retaining a players rights and sending him to the CFL. The problem is the potential playing time dispute, does the CFL team have to play him regardless of whether he’s the best option if their NFL team tells them to. Bad for the CFL if they do (controversy and an inferior product), bad for the NFL if they don’t (players don’t play). Still I could see something there.
The CFL has a similar set up going the other way. They have players on their negotiation list that may be with an NFL team now, but they have CFL rights to should they be cut. An example is Graham Harrell. Saskatchewan had his rights and brought him in last season after he was cut. He never played, was since traded, and is now back trying his NFL luck, but and example of a name some of you might recognize.
Baseball
has the minor league farm system. If a player goes down to the minors the minor league team isn’t obligated to play that guy unless he earns it.
Speaking of CFL rights—I believe Jarmarcus Russell’s rights are still owned by a CFL team (forget which one)
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Im not disagreeing with the fact that they may want this or may try to get it to happen. And its probably in the NFL’s best interest. The tone I got from the article was that if the NFL wants it to happen it will happen, which is not true. If this were to happen, it would change the league entirely, change the structure, rules and identity of the CFL game. Probably the main feature of the league, is to promote/showcase/develop Canadian talent. What’s preventing this from happening is not the NFL deciding whether they want this or not, its the CFL and thats what I thought was arrogant.
Nah
the CFL is too different than the NFL. It’d be like using the AFL as a developmental league.
In my opinion The NFL’s statement “NFL Network adds the fast-paced, wide-open CFL football action that features familiar names from U.S. college football.” is just a marketing technique to get more viewers. You could say the same thing about the AFL and the UFL.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
I disagree entirely
The CFL is a much more fundamental football league than the AFL and has years of credibility unlike the UFL. The UFL wants to be the NFL’s development league, I’m not sure the NFL feels the same way.
The differences from the CFL game and the NFL game really don’t affect the skill or development of players. I know CFL fans love the scatback argument, but the best running back in CFL history (Mike Pringle) was not a scatback.
by Andrew Davidson on Jul 7, 2010 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm actually surprised there haven't been many imports...
You would think that the CFL’s bigger field and more pass-oriented offenses would have led to more DEFENSIVE backs being poached into the NFL. After all, a free safety that could cover the extra territory effectively (and violently) would be gold in the NFL
Cornerbacks in the CFL tend to be of the smaller variety. Often this is what has pushed them to the CFL as opposed to the NFL, worries about their ability to play the run (less important in the CFL as with the wider field they are farther from most run plays).
Safety in the CFL is often a “Canadian” position, meaning that it is used to fill one of the Canadian player requirements. The reason being that it is hard in the CFL game for the safety to make as big of a difference as say a cornerback who is directly matched up with a receiver.
stop crying
I am glad that you have been a season ticket holder yadda yadda you know canadians yadda yadda….fact is humans are human and to turn down the NFL from helping more canadians actually see there hard earned time and talent blossom to a real NFL career is stupid. Sure if the NFL was trying to take money from these teams and make giant rule changes i could see them saying no but to act like canadians have some super pride that allows them to not want to profit or let alone work with the NFL is laughable. The NFL creates jobs and strengthens communities just like the CFL. This would be good for all sides,
Im not following what youre saying. The NFL already signs CFL players including Canadian born CFL players, and Im all for that. The NFL-CFL had an agreement that expired and are working towards another agreement that allows CFLers to be signed by NFL teams, which Im for. What Im saying is, I cant see with 32 NFL teams and 8 CFL teams, how it would be a farm system without altering the ratio rule. And Im saying I dont think it will be more profitable.
Maybe ...
in a couple of years the CFL Grey Cup will have Jamarcus Russel QBing one of the teams and Alex the other ? (if either can get their teams to the playoffs,lol).
As a Canadian who loves both games I have to throw my 2 cents in.
The CFL as a farm league doesn’t really work in that what do the CFL teams do when their players get “called up” or “sent down”. The teams don’t need that kind of turmoil and the fans want ot have their players to cheer for.
The CFL as a league where players frequently make the jump to the NFL does and will continue to exist. Current players like Jon Ryan, Cam Wake, Stefan Logan, Mike Sellers, and many more all got there start or break to the NFL through the CFL. Others like OJ Atogwe or Nick Kazcur were actually high draft picks (they’re both Canadian) in the CFL draft, but turned out to be good enough that they never came up here. More and more the NFL seems to be looking to the CFL as a league to find players.
The CFL rules aren’t that different that they need to be changed for Americans to get it. Just because it is more of a passing game doesn’t mean that our O-Linemen are smaller or don’t need to run block. 49er4life points out that CFL running backs can be scat-back types, but they don’t necessarily have to be to succeed. They just can be successful more so than in the NFL. In the end its still football and if you can play, then you can play.
Both games are great, and if you’re smart you’ll check the CFL out. The one thing that we do have figured out much better than the NFL, and I’ll accept no argurment on this, is the end of game excitement. In the CFL you can’t just “run out the clock”, run them out of timouts and start kneeling with 2 minutes left. The playclock is 20 seconds and as its only 3 down football teams can run off at most about a minute (but usually only 30 seconds if the other team has its timeout). Also under 3 minutes the clock stops after every 1st down. This allows for many more last second drives and comebacks than is possible in the NFL. And we’ve got overtime figured out, its like your college rules, but this year teams always have to go for the 2 point convert after touchdowns.
I do have a problem with these 2 things that you wrote, "At the very least, becoming the NFL’s farm system would allow a neutral site in the U.S. for the CFL Championship game, the Grey Cup. It could also mean the league expands into the U.S., something that was already attempted miserably in the early 90s. "
Why would the CFL give away its championship game? And who would go to a neutral U.S. site? I’m not under the false idea that it will ever become that popular in the U.S., so I’m assuming not many of them are going. This just leaves Canadians, who you have now forced to travel much further, and have eliminated the chance of watching the home team win. Doesn’t make any sense.
As for expansion, you’re right it did fail miserably in the 90’s. It was a bad idea then and its a bad idea now.
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