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Around SBN: Raiders' GM Begins The Purge

49ers Position Battles: Wide receivers, once again

We all know if there's one thing Ninjames likes, it's his wide receivers. We also know that if there's two things Ninjames likes, it's positive affirmation from the many readers of Niners Nation. Well, it's true that these two facts are partially why this post is one that I've chosen. It's also because, well, it's a legitimate battle and I really am interested to know just how many people still feel that Dominique Zeigler shouldn't make the roster.

I didn't watch as much of the game yesterday as I'd have liked to, and in fact, I mostly followed in the game thread after the first half (that's right, folks, you were reporting news to me!). If I'm correct, though, Jason Hill didn't get a catch. I'm not sure if he played or was out there, but I see nothing on the statline, and to be honest, it's a little bittersweet for me.

I think we can all say that at one point or another, we had high hopes for Jason Hill. When he didn't get his reps, people complained  myself included. When he seemed to get on fire at times and have some good games, he would, for some reason, not even be in uniform the next day. A lot of people said this was because he was in the coach's doghouse, but I'm wondering if maybe they were just seeing — or not seeing — something in practice that lead them to believe they had better options. 

Star-divide

I'm getting all over the place here, like I said: it's bittersweet for me. While I love me some "Ziggy," I also don't like to see a guy like Jason Hill go to another team. He grew up in the Bay Area and to my knowledge was pretty big on the 49ers. There are many things holding him down, though. His "speed," doesn't seem to translate that much to on-the-field speed. He doesn't look terribly fast as a receiver, and it's only shone on the odd punt coverage unit here and there. He's also had a few bad drops this preseason in the limited time he played.

So enter Dominique Zeigler; a guy who might have made the roster last season if not for a preseason injury. The oft-injured and ridiculously overpaid Brandon Jones (Smileyman made a good point: giving Jones the sixteen million and change that we did was akin to another team paying that kind of scrilla for our own Josh Morgan if he hit free agency at the end of last season) is already out of the mix, which of course means Seattle scrambled to get him under contract so he could divulge such 49ers secrets such as: "Their benches are pretty worn out, it may be a point of weakness," as well as "I dunno, I was hurt all the time." So the way is open for Zeigler, it seems.

Is he the favorite in your minds? I sort of jumped around a bit on this post, but in my defense it's 5:00 a.m. and I'm about to turn in for my customary hour of sleep. My point is that, my obvious fanboyism aside, Zeigler has to be the favorite to be that 4th or 5th wide receiver on the roster and I'm interested to know if there are still any Jason Hill supporters out there who think he deserves to be on. So let's hear it.

Poll
Who is on?
Dominique Zeigler
919 votes
Jason Hill
68 votes
Both
150 votes
Neither
28 votes

1165 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 91 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Hill is as good as gone

If he was trying to make any kind of positive statement to get a contract extension let alone earn a spot on the roster, he’d be doing it right now. He had the tools coming in to be a good receiver, I just don’t think he has the heart to do it. Maybe that’s the explanation for him possibly being in the coach’s doghouse right now. The only way he makes it at this point is if he can campaign to make the Sing and/or Sullivan believe that KW’s is way more seriously injured than they think and for now they keep him as a 6th receiver .

27 da. . .Shut up mango :P

I'm on twitter now. Please follow me! www.twitter.com/@yougomango

by Mangoman on Aug 29, 2010 11:10 AM PDT reply actions  

Not going to happen!

Too many “can’t cut”s at OLB, CB and S. Just no room for 6 WRs. The five who make the final 53 are Crabtree, Morgan, Ginn, Zeigler and Williams. Cast it in comcrete.

by 49erFanSince1950 on Aug 29, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

agreed...

I’d love to see that extra WR there, but if cutting hill means keeping a Diryal Biggs or something, then cya buddy

by aj_is_good on Aug 29, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

why does it make more sense

to keep 6 WRs when we barely use 4?

When life gives you fruit, add a bunch of sugar to it.

by these3words on Aug 30, 2010 5:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

i just remember

the p.o.s. raider blog where that idiot said " we R guna putt Smith on his AZZ and …" well i forgot the rest, but it sure was nice to watch campbell get hammered. no hard feelings.

by pwarren85 on Aug 29, 2010 11:19 AM PDT reply actions  

Hill

I’ve barely noticed him on the field. He’s as good as gone.

"Dodger fans aren’t happy when foul balls get into their section, because it interferes with their playing with the beachball"- Mike Krukow

by 49er16 on Aug 29, 2010 11:24 AM PDT reply actions  

It would be a bad idea to not keep him.

Crabs is banged up and so is williams. that leaves morgan, zeig, hill, and Ginn. Ginn can’t catch and Hill had very producgtive outings last year. I say again keep 6.

Black Sand Ninja!!!

by rlott#42 on Aug 29, 2010 11:29 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Crabs isn't all that banged up

he would’ve played just fine had it been regular season.

Crabs, Morgan, Ginn, Williams, Zeigler, VD and Walker give us plenty of receiving options

Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority

by smileyman on Aug 29, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Then we got Gore and Westbrook as some of the best "receiver" backs

In consideration of the other roster positions, we need the spots elsewhere. Especially because of our “balanced” offense and the infrequency that we will be running 4-5 WR sets. So our current 4 and 5 WR are ok to step in as #3.

by fortyniners on Aug 29, 2010 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also...

Stating the obvious, but this team is so talented at TE (I am convinced that Walker could start for 1/4 of the teams in the league) that having a 6th WR who will almost never see the field makes little sense. The 49ers can split out either Davis or Walker if needed…

"Granted, this is not a great situation, but when all you have is lemons, you add some vodka to dull the pain..."

by Mcamp49 on Aug 29, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't forget Byham

He may lumber after the pass, but he’s good for a catch or two.

by McTee on Aug 29, 2010 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hill pretty much showed he can't catch either.

And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.

by James Brady on Aug 29, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

are you saying that Hill showed us he can be productive or that he can't?

last year 90 yards receiving, year before 317, year before that 6

Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority

by smileyman on Aug 29, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Josh morgan over the last two years

527 yards, 319 yards. Morgan’s worst year is better than Hill’s best.

Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority

by smileyman on Aug 29, 2010 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

It wouldn't be a bad idea to keep 6.

The problem is with the talent level they have this year. Who do you cut? As I don’t think there are many who won’t make the 53 that won’t be picked up by another team. So is Hill better for the team the Adams or LaBoy or Briggs or Mitchell?

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"

by Eastbayjim on Aug 29, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Better then Adams? No.
LaBoy? No.
Briggs? No.
Mitchell? Maybe.

by mikeinsp on Aug 29, 2010 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know he didn't play half the time

but you can’t say that he had better productivity than Morgan because it simply isn’t true

Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority

by smileyman on Aug 29, 2010 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I never said that.

 I said he looked better than Morgan. Morgan can barely get open in man to man, but his run blocking keeps him starting I guess.

Black Sand Ninja!!!

by rlott#42 on Aug 29, 2010 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here's what you said
Hill showed us two sesons in a row he cn be productive.

Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority

by smileyman on Aug 29, 2010 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Then what the hell did you mean?

because i asked you to clarify and you never did, just went on defending Hill as the better WR

Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority

by smileyman on Aug 29, 2010 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I said he showed he can be productive, whether it's just redzone or 3rd dwns.

ST’s as well. What is there to clarify, you looked up his stats and in the small amount of time he had you seen what he produced.

Black Sand Ninja!!!

by rlott#42 on Aug 30, 2010 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

He looked better than Morgan but didn't out-perform him

hmmm

And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.

by James Brady on Aug 30, 2010 2:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Crabs is fine.

And if he’s not he ha 2 weeks to get better

by mikeinsp on Aug 29, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I was waiting for him to say

“If there’s one thing Ninjames likes, it’s referring to himself in the third person.”

I may hate your timing, but I can't hate your reason for leaving. Vaya con Dios, Glen Coffee.

by grantmp on Aug 29, 2010 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Editorial subtraction.

And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.

by James Brady on Aug 30, 2010 2:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Zeigler, undisputed #4 WR.

I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff

The New and Improved Bay Area Connections:
Alex Smith to Michael Crabtree
Stephen Curry to David Lee
Madison Bumgarner to Gerald Buster "Jesus" Posey

by Hoopers Judge on Aug 29, 2010 11:45 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Should be #3?

WHAT?! What should we do with Ginn then? Sit him? No Ginn is the obvious #3.

by mikeinsp on Aug 29, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think there's any clear #3

Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority

by smileyman on Aug 29, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

There isn't a real #2.

Morgan should be the #3. It would be the perfect spot for him. Though without that #2 Morgan is the only solution.

I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff

The New and Improved Bay Area Connections:
Alex Smith to Michael Crabtree
Stephen Curry to David Lee
Madison Bumgarner to Gerald Buster "Jesus" Posey

by Hoopers Judge on Aug 29, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

We're a running team remember?

He’s our best blocking WR

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Aug 29, 2010 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I saw Ted Ginn

Actually reach out and grab a pass, he was out of bounds but he actually caught it.

by Pat Willie on Aug 29, 2010 11:47 AM PDT reply actions  

I thought you were the leader of the Nate Davis fan club, Pat----

Who do you think caught that 60 yard pass Nate threw in game #2? Ginn was in bounds on that one, wasn’t he?

Have you thought about watching the games? If memory serves, Ginn has made a few other catches thus far as well, including one or two in traffic over the middle.

by seafood lover on Aug 29, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's been fine IMO

He certainly hasn’t been lighting it up, but he’s made plays and is showing some pretty good heart. The catch last week was one. The one catch he made yesterday did show he can make plays in traffic and has the hustle to make as much as he can out of the catch. And if there’s any question as to his desire to sacrifice his body to make a play, watch the block that he threw on a DL yesterday on the long run by Gore.

27 da. . .Shut up mango :P

I'm on twitter now. Please follow me! www.twitter.com/@yougomango

by Mangoman on Aug 29, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

ive been pleasantly surprised by ginn

A few tough catches over the middle followed by fighting for a few yards this preseason, something I doubted I would ever see out of him.
He may be a solid receiver now that he’s not asked to be “the guy”.

Obviously i’m withholding final judgement until I see him produce in real games but I think he has played hard and played relatively well thus far.

by ManBearPig21 on Aug 29, 2010 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I've been impressed with Ginn too, at least attitude-wise

Heck, on Gore’s long run, and Walker’s 38 yard reception Ginn threw blocks downfield. Not great blocks, but he clearly made an effort, in one case against a 300+ pound defensive lineman. I almost fell out of my chair.

We’ll see if it lasts and if we got a receiver who can mature into his physical talent.

I may hate your timing, but I can't hate your reason for leaving. Vaya con Dios, Glen Coffee.

by grantmp on Aug 29, 2010 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

@Ninjames

You’re living in the past. Zeigler won the #4 WR spot weeks ago. How about talking about something more relevant?

by Realfan49 on Aug 29, 2010 12:13 PM PDT reply actions  

Are you Jerry Sullivan in disguise??

27 da. . .Shut up mango :P

I'm on twitter now. Please follow me! www.twitter.com/@yougomango

by Mangoman on Aug 29, 2010 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have a theory

I believe that Coach Singletary believes that all of his players either hustle and bust their tails in practice or they don’t play. That has been the bad rap on Hill all along (including pre-Singletary)—-“he is not a good practice player”. Say good-bye to him Nin.

I further suspect that you can substitute names like Jones and Balmer (and maybe a couple of more) in that first sentence and understand all of the early personnel cuts thus far this season.

by seafood lover on Aug 29, 2010 12:36 PM PDT reply actions  

About the 16 million to Jones...

As far as I know, and have had heard from NFL players in interviews, that Guaranteed money is only Guaranteed for the years that they are on the team. So if Jones is on the team 2 years, he only gets 2 years of the guaranteed money and not all 4 years. I don’t think the 49ers are on the hook for any money this year…..

His signing bonus was 1, 080,000, total salary was 1,700,00 for last year.

by ericalancanty on Aug 29, 2010 1:07 PM PDT reply actions  

Not correct

Guaranteed money comes in several flavors. Yours isn’t one of them.

by Realfan49 on Aug 29, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know how salaries work.. I wasn't implying that we paid him the full 16.5 or so.

I was saying, that’s what we signed him for.

And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.

by James Brady on Aug 29, 2010 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

correct

guaranteed money is just that… guaranteed…. im almost positive they recieve all of that no matter what or else it wouldnt be guaranteed… 90 million contract 45 million guaranteed…. make sense??

by return29erglory on Aug 29, 2010 1:17 PM PDT reply actions  

that does make sense.

your username, on the other hand…

When life gives you fruit, add a bunch of sugar to it.

by these3words on Aug 30, 2010 6:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

hang on—

is your username supposed to be pronounced “return to niner glory”? because that would make sense.

i thought you had tried to type “return49erglory” as in “return forty-niner glory” and hit the wrong key.

When life gives you fruit, add a bunch of sugar to it.

by these3words on Aug 30, 2010 6:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

or

is it the 90 million is in part with incentives, and the 45 million is the part of his FULL contract he would get playing the full 5 years??? now im confused..LOL

by return29erglory on Aug 29, 2010 1:20 PM PDT reply actions  

OK, so let's take a look at a good illustration for our purposes

during the off-season the Bengals signed WR Antionio Bryant to a 4 year deal worth $28 million with $8.5 million in guaranteed.

Once his guaranteed money was paid he was making a salary over the 4 years of $19.5 million. They released him this week, so they don’t have to pay him any of that $19.5 million, but they’re stuck with the $8.5 million in guaranteed for a guy who never played a down of football for them.

Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority

by smileyman on Aug 29, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Gore, Morris, Dixon, and Westbrook can catch too

Plenty enough receivers with 5 wide outs and slots. Very low priority here. Ziegler himself may not suit up for much of the season as the 5th.

by Vertigo on Aug 29, 2010 1:43 PM PDT reply actions  

the reply button

only works if you click on it.

When life gives you fruit, add a bunch of sugar to it.

by these3words on Aug 30, 2010 6:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

Dixon

makes me laugh every time he talks. i hope he gets reps just so he can stay relevant enough to be interviewed throughout the year.

today’s ‘golden nugget’

by t p on Aug 29, 2010 2:04 PM PDT reply actions  

Jason Hill is done as far as we are concerned.....

Even last year he was on the bubble and was complaining about his place on the team. He probably would have been cut last year if Zeigler had not gotten hurt.

I had high hopes for Hill at one point, but he is dead weight now. Dead weight needs to be cut and the 49ers seem to have finally realized this (Jones, Balmer).

We do not need 6 Wide Receivers. As others have said we have plenty of pass catchers. Having 3 backups for a position that only uses 3 or more receivers rarely is a bad use of roster space.

by CLS on Aug 29, 2010 2:21 PM PDT reply actions  

The Niners never used a 4 or 5 WR set in 2009 I believe.

3 is the most you’ll ever see with Raye calling plays. Also having VD and Walker being reliable playmakers at TE, Gore and Westbrook being great recievers for RB’s, you’ll never need more then 3 WRs on the field in any situation.

Rostering more then 5 WRs would just be a bad use of roster space.

I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff

The New and Improved Bay Area Connections:
Alex Smith to Michael Crabtree
Stephen Curry to David Lee
Madison Bumgarner to Gerald Buster "Jesus" Posey

by Hoopers Judge on Aug 29, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Hill, another 3rd rd draft pick wasted...................

Let the beat roll on, Coffee, Hill, Cody Wallace, Balmer to just name a few…………………

by Italia1970 on Aug 29, 2010 4:22 PM PDT reply actions  

Oh well win some lose some , done deal ...!!

I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's juz my game ...!!

by Edggy on Aug 29, 2010 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep. I guess.

We’ve had plenty of hits though, which makes me happy.

And then God created Saturn... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
Twitter me and what not.

by James Brady on Aug 29, 2010 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't feed it.

I survived the David Carr Press Conference Thread 3/06/2010
Credit to iaalexeeff

The New and Improved Bay Area Connections:
Alex Smith to Michael Crabtree
Stephen Curry to David Lee
Madison Bumgarner to Gerald Buster "Jesus" Posey

by Hoopers Judge on Aug 29, 2010 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

are you serious?

cody wallace was a 4th round pick and kentwan balmer was a 1st rounder.

of the 4 guys you listed as “wasted 3rd round draft picks,” only 2 of them were actually 3rd round draft picks.

When life gives you fruit, add a bunch of sugar to it.

by these3words on Aug 30, 2010 6:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

You have misinterpreted

I never said they were all 3rd picks, although I wish Balmer was.

Second, that supposed quote you used was incorrect, at least not accurate by my post.

Think before you write, it avoids people thinking of you as a fool.

by Italia1970 on Aug 30, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

your exact words were:

Hill, another 3rd rd draft pick wasted… Let the beat roll on, Coffee, Hill, Cody Wallace, Balmer to just name a few…

how does that not sound like you were calling them all wasted 3rd round picks?

When life gives you fruit, add a bunch of sugar to it.

by these3words on Aug 30, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Where do the exact words say...............

All of those picks are 3rd rd draft picks, or “the following 3rd rd draft picks are all busts”-no where. It’s how you chose to interpret it.

by Italia1970 on Aug 30, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

whatever dude.

it’s all in the past.

When life gives you fruit, add a bunch of sugar to it.

by these3words on Aug 31, 2010 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Next time be more careful........

That way you avoid looking like a fool again.

by Italia1970 on Aug 31, 2010 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

misinterpretation

Sorry but its very easy for someone to misinterpret your statements to be claiming they’re third round picks. The problem on the Internet is the inability for there to be sufficient transitions in terms of pauses in language. Whatever you meant, it doesn’t mean you have say someone looked like a fool. You don’t have to be so crass about his comments. I actually don’t think he looked like a fool with his comments.

by David Fucillo on Aug 31, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

To each their own

When I explained it to him the 1st time, he should’ve let it go, however he chose to keep going. Instead, he chose to misquote me, which anyone can see plain as day.

Why he made that decision, who knows. However it was a foolish one.

Then when he made that decision to bust my balls, I made sure to show him where he misquoted me, and when he realized I was right, he said “whatever.”

If he was foolish enough to try and bust my balls, and not think I wouldn’t say anything, especially when he twisted my words and misquoted me, he was sadlly mistaken.

Next time maybe he will read more carefully, instead of misquoting people and trying to make them look foolish.

by Italia1970 on Aug 31, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agree 5 WR

We are just abundant with LB’s that we don’t want to lose.

by MikeDv on Aug 29, 2010 4:54 PM PDT reply actions  

Who in the heck voted

for neither one of them? Please explain to me our WRs if they are both not on the team.

"Bears are crazy, Willie. They'll bite your head off if you're wearing steak on it."

by Blank x2 on Aug 29, 2010 5:29 PM PDT reply actions  

I wanted Hill to succeed

but he hasn’t.

Good luck in the future. If the Niners can trade him, go ahead. If they can’t I hope he finds a place somewhere else. No hard feelings. He just couldn’t cut it here.

by Bob In Beaverton on Aug 29, 2010 7:26 PM PDT reply actions  

Same here

I really hoped he would realise his potential with the 49ers but things haven’t panned out. If he gets cut I wish him well…but I’ll grow to hate Jerry Sullivan, if Hill becomes a star or solid receiver with another team.

Alu mohe!

by Fana Chimes on Aug 29, 2010 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

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