49ers Training Camp: Returning to the back-up running back battle
by David Fucillo on Aug 8, 2010 7:00 AM PDT
in 49ers Training Camp 2010
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PrintThe 49ers have spent the last couple years looking for some kind of backup option for running back Frank Gore. Whether talking about Maurice Hicks, Michael Robinson, DeShaun Foster, and now Glen Coffee and maybe Anthony Dixon, nothing has quite stuck yet. Of course, Coffee is only a year in to his 49er career, and Anthony Dixon was only recently drafted.
However, recent reports certainly have me curious as to how effective either of them will be this season. Frank Gore enjoys getting as many carries as he can, so it's not exactly the end of the world. However, it would certainly be nice to build an effective rushing attack beyond Frank Gore.
I point you to a Sando post involving a quick bullet on Glen Coffee, and a Barber post about Anthony Dixon. The Coffee post was fairly generic and said:
Backup running back Glen Coffee added weight this offseason in an effort to improve upon what he considered a subpar rookie season. He hasn't stood out in camp to this point, however.
The Dixon post was much more specific and included an amusing quotation from OC Jimmy Raye:
"I like him," the long-time assistant said, breaking into a wide grin. "Though there are times I want to strangle him. He's young, and you know how they say youth is wasted on the young. He's young and he's learning. He's running over the quarterback and the lines. He's just having fun, and he's learning what to do."
Although Frank Gore remains a tank running over defenses, as I said, it'd really be nice to establish something behind him. The upcoming preseason games will be huge for figuring that out. After all, Gore will likely not get very many touches in an effort to keep him healthy prior to the season. That means Glen Coffee and Anthony Dixon will be the main guys in the preseason.
Although preseason doesn't tell us everything we know, one or both of them will likely get some quality carries against first string defensive players. Coffee had a couple big games against the Raiders and Broncos last preseason, but that did not translate into much regular season success. Will things change this time around? Will Anthony Dixon step up in the preseason and turn that into a solid regular season performance? Does it matter with Frank Gore at the helm?
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Marshawn Lynch
Would be such a good fit on this roster. He’s got two years left on his contract and I know Singletary could manage him. His teammates love him. And he is a legitimate Pro Bowl caliber Running Back.
I’d trade Coffee for him in a second.
They're called RUNS for a reason.
I doubt Dixon
will ever be able to run like Frank Gore. As a rookie he made Barlow look like a couch potato. He runs straight through the tackles and then shifts into high gear to burn defensive backs. Most premiere running backs establish themselves early in their rookie year. Since it’s still very early in camp I guess there may still be oppotunity for him. I would hope to see some sort of flashes of brilliance from him really soon though, or he might get a parking pass on the bench next to Glenn Coffee. I also think it’s tough to take a running back and change the methods with which he runs. For instance if you have a quick running back that jukes and spins, it’s tough to get him to bulk up and run through people like Frankk Gore does. Then you want him to burn DB’s after regaining his balance from a massive hit, It just doesn’t come naturally to alot of people.
And the broken record playeth.......
Shaky OL, Hill at QB and facing 9 in the box in your rookie season, its like not having one. Its too early to judge Coffee. And the new Rook will be under the same analysis, however, he does have a better offense around him.
Black Sand Ninja!!!
by rlott#42 on Aug 8, 2010 9:09 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
And the band plays the same tune.
Adrian Peterson lead the league in runs of no gain or negative yardage and he had an OL and he hardly ever faced a front 4 as good as the Vikings. Not many RB’s will have success with a noodle arm QB, a poor OL, and facing 9 in the box, especially as a rookie. SMH….
Black Sand Ninja!!!
AP didn't lead the league in runs of no gain
He doesn’t even make the top 10
Here’s the list according to PFF. The lat number is the percentage of runs that were for no gain or lost yardage. Notice that both AP and Chester Taylor make the list of top 10, which tells you something about the Vikings offensive line.
Donald Brown 94 327 28 29.8
Steve Slaton 131 450 38 29.0
Glen Coffee 83 226 22 26.5
Chester Taylor 103 383 27 26.2
Ahmad Bradshaw 163 777 41 25.2
Jerious Norwood 76 254 19 25.0
Kevin Smith 217 747 52 24.0
Knowshon Moreno 247 947 59 23.9
Adrian Peterson 365 1,572 87 23.8
Derrick Ward 115 414 27 23.5
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Agreed
Riott#42 is right—if the OL makes the holes, then the RB makes the yards. If there are 6-7 to get through, running gets easier than when it is 8-9 that you have to beat. If a team can’t pass and you can’t block, most RBs can’t run. And vice-versa. This is a team game—-if the team gets better, the RBs look better.
Sanders was great, but
As I recall Sanders had a pretty good OL making holes for him in Detroit, even if then defense and QB-passing game was lousy. His greatness came from what he was able to do after he got through those holes at the line of scrimmage.
And I would rather have Jim Brown as the best running back of all time; he played at 235 pounds and was probably about as fast as Sanders running a straight line. And maybe Walter Payton should slip into that #2 slot ahead of Sanders?
by seafood lover on Aug 8, 2010 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
pretty good is a stretch
the Detroit line wasn’t downright awful, but wasn’t very good either. If Emmitt and Barry were switched, then I think we’d be talking about Sanders as being the Jerry Rice of RB’s.
by remembertheCATCH on Aug 8, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Yup
Smith had the best offensive line in football blocking for him. Sanders had a line that was never better than mediocre and quite often bad.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Seriously.
Just think of all Barry’s highlights. They are of his line collapsing and him making people miss in the backfield
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Aug 8, 2010 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Dixon was Raye's pick
and
Coffee was McC’s power-back selection. (At the combine Coffee was listed at 6’0, 209lbs, thin framed, no idea what Scottie was thinking there)
I don’t see potential in either of them.
-
I agree with connie mack.
Marshawn Lynch for the right price, to comeback to his hometown, and share carries with Gore.
1. Pat Devlin QB 2. Jack Crawford DE/OLB 3. Kendric Burney CB 4. DeAndre Brown WR 5. John Estes C 6. Chris Hairston OT 7. Stephfon Green RB 7. Julian Posey CB
It matters
Odds of Gore missing a game or two: 30 percent. If both subs whiff, it hurts and Niners back to shotgun and heave the potato. Got lucky drafting the injured Gore but poor RB drafts have haunted this team in recent years. If you can’t scare the D you get what we saw last year – 3rd down impotence.
Can't judge Coffee from last year ...
… not with the state of the O line , this will be a better year to see what we have on him … IMO year Two with the same OC will be huge not only for Smith but for the whole Offense …!!
Gotta love a woman that wear's knee pad's to work ...!!
Yeah we can
Gore performed much, much better than Coffee running behind the same awful offensive line.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Coffee
True, but Gore is an established back in this league and Coffee was a rookie. I suppose you can still judge him, but I also think you have to take it with at least a little bit of a grain of salt.
by David Fucillo on Aug 8, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Disagree, somewhat
Stud runningbacks almost always show their stuff in their rookie year. Some college studs don’t translate to the NFL, but once they get here it’s sink or swim. Coffee wasn’t swimming or anything so he’s not a premiere. There are always exceptions however so you can hold on to hope.
running backs
Stud running back? Nobody ever said or thought Glen Coffee will turn into a stud running back. Sure it’d be nice, but given the 49ers current situation it’s not all that necessary.
by David Fucillo on Aug 8, 2010 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh it's neccessary.
Gore has a history of injuries. Granted the team has been lucky to not lose him for very long periods of time. But with those knees and ankles, it’s stupid not to have someone ready to fill those shoes.
Ok we can say Coffee is no Gore ....
.. but what i’m say’n is do we write him off on last year’s performance alone …!!
Gotta love a woman that wear's knee pad's to work ...!!
by Edggy on Aug 8, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Actually he didn't !!!!!!
Coffee and Gore would have had the same dismal 2+ yard per carry average if it were not for four (if I remember correctly) 70+ yard runs Gore had after he broke through the very infrequent holes the OL made for the many, many more carries he had than Coffee did. Gore is faster and shiftier, and it shows when he gets through the hole, but that OL stank for both of them.
by seafood lover on Aug 8, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Not true
Gore had three very long runs last season
79 yarder against Seattle, 80 yarder against Seattle, 64 yarder against the Colts. Take those away and Gore still averaged almost 4 yards a carry (3.9)
Now let’s take away Coffee’s three biggest runs and see how well he fares. That drops him from his already miserable 2.7 yards per carry to an even more miserable 2.3 yards per carry.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
well put smiley
I know we had a small sample size with Coffee, but the writings on the wall. He’s nothing special. Give him a great offensive line and he can average 4.0 ypa. But with a great offensive line ANYONE can average 4.0 ypa.
Coffee’s nothing special as a rusher, but he’s solid as a blocker. He still has value in the NFL due to his pass blocking.
The reason I target Marshawn Lynch is because it is a classic case of a solid football player in the wrong situation. Put Lynch under Singletary and watch what happens. He is a threat. Defenses have to respect him. that opens things up for the passing game. Ask Vernon Davis and Michael Crabtree who they would rather see as Gore’s backup.
They're called RUNS for a reason.
Coffee played with Hill and racked up 25 pct or more of his carries vs the Vikes.
Coffee had the bad end of the stick no being played when Smith took over.
Black Sand Ninja!!!
Gore played with Smith, Coffee didn't. Subtract the big runs vs AZ and with Hill Gore sucked as well.
Black Sand Ninja!!!
I already addressed this claim earlier
take away Gore’s three biggest runs and and he still averaged almost 4 yards a carry.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Just a thought..
I like Gore but my issue with him is that he is great in the open field and once past the DL and LB’s but I get real frustrated when there is no open hole he just plows into the OL for no yardage or a loss.. I would love to see the OL create some holes to run through but if it ain’t there it ain’t there. So I would like to see him or someother back who can break it to the out side or reverse dirction and make something happen instead of simply trying to move 1000 pounds of human flesh with no results.
How many years does Gore have left in him?
He is the best at running against 9+ in the box if there is a best. This year should be different because of the new ability (hopefully) to force defenders to spread out and cover or speedy and elusive recievers. Lot’s of play action and double tight end lineups should keep it interesting.
That's not his style
and it’s not the style of blocking we were running. We were using a quasi-zone blocking scheme last year which requires that a RB trust his line that the hole will be open when he gets there.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Add to that
Footballoutsiders have the 2009 49ers’ O-line getting stuffed 24% of the time which ranks us dead last. I wish I could find stats for carries for negative yards but could not find anything useful.
by ZeroOneInfinity on Aug 8, 2010 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Glen Coffee ranked 3rd in the NFL for runs of no gain at 26.5% of all his runs
The two RBs worse than him were Donald brown and Steve Slaton.
This according to PFF.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
I thought Peterson lead the league, it was said on ESPN when they discussed he wanted his contract.
But they did say, yards for no gain and negative yards.
Black Sand Ninja!!!
They may have been basing their numbers on total carries
not percentage of carries.
In total carries he probably did lead the list since he got a ton more carries than the other backs on the sucky list.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
I agree with you there
I have thought this many times watching Gore run. A hole opens up maybe where it wasn’t meant to, or there is nothing and he wont break outside. It can be frustrating at times when he just slams into the wall. That is why I was really wanting Spiller pre-draft, wasn’t gunna happen but that was the reason I was on that wagon. Maybe we can get Vareen next year.
Again with the Beast Mode argument
the timing on Lynch’s contract and Gore’s contract is perfect. Let Gore play his out as the number 1 back. and then let him shop around, knowing you got ML to take over as #1, which he is capable of.
They're called RUNS for a reason.
Not a good idea
Lynch has what 3 years left on his deal? He’ll be 27 then, same age as Gore right now, which means that he might have 3 years of good production left.
It would be better for the team to draft a guy in a couple years to groom as a replacement.
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority
Plus what are the Bills going to want?
I wouldn’t offer anything above a 6th round pick for him because of his off the field issues.
by ZeroOneInfinity on Aug 8, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
He'll be the same age as Gore is now, but with a lot less wear on the tires
Because he sat most of last year, and he’ll be behind Gore for a year or two here.
Then the team has the advantage, they can decide if they want to resign him or not.
As for what it would take to get him, I think he is totally worth a 4th round choice, or a player like David Baas, Barry Sims or Glen Coffee.
The timing isn’t perfect, but if you can get him for cheap, who cares?
This all is dependent on if Singletary thinks he can reach Marshawn and keep him on the path of righteousness, or if he doesn’t need to. Sometimes a change of scenery itself can do wonders.
They're called RUNS for a reason.
ML's backup ran for almost as many yards as Gore with less carries, forget about Lynch he isn't good at all.
He is beyond his rookie season and is not reading holes well. He actually had holes and wouldn’t run through them.
Black Sand Ninja!!!
Trading for Lynch
In terms of how old he is (24), I think it probably doesn’t matter if we can get him for cheap, and get at least a few years of production out of him. We should ALSO finally get a RB draft pick right, which we haven’t done since Gore. You def need more than one quality back in today’s NFL, due to injury, etc.
That said, our O-Line is going to be phenomenal a year from now, and as somebody mentioned with Emmit Smith above, it’s going to be the sort of line almost ANYONE could gain yards behind.
Oh, and Sweetness was great, and Jim Brown was ridiculously great, but I go with Sanders as my favorite, if not also the best. Youtube “Barry Sanders Top 5 Runs”, and let yourself be awed. I was watching John Lynch get interviewed once talking about Barry Sanders, and he said he was the only dude who made the defenses he played on just feel inferior.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
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