Jim Harbaugh, 49ers Hire Vic Fangio: A Brief Statistical Evaluation of the New DC
Now that Vic Fangio's been hired, this seems downright prescient. In yesterday's Golden Nuggets, Fooch linked to Matt Barrows' Twitter Tuesday post, wherein reader, Anthony1642, asked the following question:
is there a concern that Vic F's defenses seemed to regress statistically each year he was DC?
Unless you've been under a rock for the past few days, "Vic F" is Vic Fangio, the freshly hired defensive coordinator (DC) of the San Francisco 49ers. Given that this hiring was the worst kept secret since "Baalke Hired as GM," I'm assuming many of you are already familiar with Fangio's biography. For those who aren't, here's his pre-Niner coaching résumé:
|
Years |
Team |
Position |
|
1979-81 |
Dunmore H.S. |
Linebackers/Defensive Coordinator |
|
1982 |
Milford Academy |
Defensive Coordinator |
|
1983 |
North Carolina |
Graduate Assistant |
|
1984-85 |
Philadelphia/Baltimore Stars |
Defensive Assistant |
|
1986-94 |
Linebackers |
|
|
1995-98 |
Defensive Coordinator |
|
|
1999-01 |
Defensive Coordinator |
|
|
2002-05 |
Defensive Coordinator |
|
|
2006-08 |
Special Assistant to Head Coach |
|
|
2009 |
Baltimore Raves |
Special Assistant to Head Coach/Linebackers |
|
2010 |
Stanford Cardinal |
Defensive Coordinator |
So, Vic "The Fang" Fangio spent 24 years as an NFL assistant coach prior to being hired at Stanford. More importantly, my conveniently bolded excerpt shows that Fangio was a defensive coordinator for 11 of those 24 years: twice serving 4 years with an expansion team led by Dom Capers, along with a 3-year stint for Jim Mora's Colts. These are the "Vic F defenses" that Barrows' reader was expressing his concern about. (Aside: Interesting how Fangio followed Jim Mora around [Saints and Colts], followed Dom Capers around [Panthers and Texans], and now seems to be following members of the Harbaugh family around [Ravens and 49ers]. The NFL's not an ol' boys network...at all!)
When you look at the total yardage rankings related to Fangio's previous DC tenures, the underlying premise of the Twitter question seems to check out: In CAR, his defense went from 7th-best in 1995 to 10th in 1996 to15th in 1997 to 30th in his (and Capers') last season. In IND, Fangio's unit finished 15th in 1999, then 21st in 2000, then 29th in 2001. Finally, after reuniting with Capers in HOU, the Fang's Texan defense ended 2002 at #16, 2003 at #31, 2004 at #23, and 2005 at #31 again.
Fooch likes to constantly remind us that he hates the saying, ""There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." In his honor, the question today is, "Are these stats lying?" Of course, we don't want to stroke his ego too much, so this post will also be a general statistical evaluation of Vic Fangio, Defensive Coordinator of your San Francisco 49ers.
After the jump, Vic’s résumé in a statistical Fanguage...
PREVAR-VIC-ATION
First, let's examine whether the theory of the incredible shrinking Vic Fangio defense is reality or a lying-stat-driven myth. This one's pretty easy. Assuming someone's not using a statistic to lie to you on purpose, the lying statistic scenario basically results from either (a) the person using the statistic isn't very good at using statistics, (b) the statistic itself isn't very good, or (c) a combination of the two.
Clearly, (b) is applicable here. That's because the results of just about every bit of research that's ever been done on the topic -and just plain old football common sense - tells us that yards are not created equally. This should really go without saying, but the yard between the opponent's 1 and goal line on a 4th-and-1 play with 5 seconds left in the 4th quarter is far more valuable than the yard between a team's own 41 and 42 on a 1st-and-10 play with 5 minutes left in the 1st quarter. Therefore, any statistic like total yardage, which treats each yard equally, is a bad statistic. Now, add on top that "counting stats" like total yardage, which simply tally up a bunch equally weighted numbers, are meaningless because some teams have more opportunities to accumulate yards than others (i.e., they run or defend against more plays), and you have a reeeeeeeeeally bad statistic.
Of course, that fact that there's a mountain of readily available evidence proving the worthlessness of total yardage implies that anyone who cites total yardage as evidence in any argument ever isn't very good at using statistics. That doesn't mean people who do so are idiots. Total yardage has been the ranking statistic-of-choice for eons in the NFL, and it's a very easy number for the average fan to comprehend; hence its rhetorical omnipresence on NFL telecasts and water cooler arguments of all kinds. Expecting to change this state of affairs is like Sisyphus expecting to get that boulder over the top of the hill; but suffice it to say that, if you learn anything from me during our time here on Niners Nation, just remember to never believe an NFL-related argument based on total yardage.
You say you're sick of my pontificating, and want me to show you Fang's stats already? Great! Because my little diatribe dovetails nicely with a more general discussion of Vic's NFL track record. Now that he's been hired, that's probably a good discussion to have.
FANGS AND VICURES
Alright, let's start with the Vic F's overall rankings based on some better stats than the now-discredited total yardage:
- Defense Simple Rating System (SRS) - Pro Football Reference's (P-F-R) user-friendly team rating statistic based on margin of victory and strength of schedule.
- Defense DVOA - my statistic of choice from Football Outsiders (FO), which is based on play success rate and strength of schedule.
- Defense Yards per Play (Yds/P) - your typical total yardage statistic that adjusts for the number of plays each team defends against, thereby eliminating at least one of the major problems with total yardage.
And for the sake of comparison, I've included total yardage (Yds) rankings in the table, which I present to you below:
|
Year |
Tm |
SRS |
DVOA |
Yds/P |
Yds |
|
1995 |
CAR |
13 |
5 |
5 |
7 |
|
1996 |
CAR |
2 |
6 |
12 |
10 |
|
1997 |
CAR |
15 |
23 |
12 |
15 |
|
1998 |
CAR |
26 |
21 |
29 |
30 |
|
Average |
14.0 |
13.8 |
14.5 |
15.5 |
|
|
1999 |
IND |
18 |
27 |
19 |
15 |
|
2000 |
IND |
14 |
23 |
23 |
21 |
|
2001 |
IND |
31 |
29 |
29 |
29 |
|
Average |
21.0 |
26.3 |
23.7 |
21.7 |
|
|
2002 |
HOU |
22 |
20 |
9 |
16 |
|
2003 |
HOU |
25 |
29 |
31 |
31 |
|
2004 |
HOU |
11 |
18 |
26 |
23 |
|
2005 |
HOU |
31 |
32 |
32 |
31 |
|
Average |
22.3 |
24.8 |
24.5 |
25.3 |
|
As I mentioned earlier, yes, Fang's defenses have seemed to get worse over time at each of his 3 previous DC stops according to the bad statistic known as total yardage. And, unsurprisingly, the same seems to be true according to total yardage's cousin, Yds/P.
The same can't be said, however, when we look instead at better statistics like SRS and DVOA. Except for Fang's first season in CAR according to SRS, both stats tell the same basic story:
- In CAR, the defense was really good for 2 years and bad for 2 years.
- In IND, the defense actually got better in Fang's second season.
- In HOU, Fang's defense got worse, then better, then worse again.
That's a pretty clear picture of how bad stats have the potential lie to you, but good stats don't. According to the good stats, SRS and DVOA, it's apparent that Fang's defenses didn't show the tidy year-by-year regression suggested by the inferior stats, Yds and Yds/P. I'm going to go ahead and believe the good stats, and deem the bad stats liars.
OK...that's overall defense. Of course, a defense's plays can be broken down into defending passes and defending runs. Furthermore, given the proliferation of aerial attacks in today's NFL - not to mention the fact that the passing game performance is most predictive of winning - I'm guessing it'd be useful to see whether Fang's pass defenses regressed during his previous 3 DC gigs.
Because P-F-R's SRS stat is based on points rather than yards, there's no such thing as Pass Defense SRS or Run Defense SRS. Therefore, the next 2 tables replace SRS with the following efficiency-based, relatively advanced statistics advocated by both P-F-R and Brian Burke of Advanced NFL Stats:
- Net Yards per Pass Attempt (nYPA) - this is your basic yards-per-attempt stat, except it includes sack yards in the "yards" part, and includes sacks in the "attempts" part.
- Rushing Yards per Carry (YPC) - I'm assuming that everyone's familiar with this one, and, if not, it's pretty self-explanatory.
Below is the table showing the rankings of Fang-led NFL defenses against opposing pass offenses (Pa = Pass):
|
Year |
Tm |
PaDVOA |
nYPA |
PaYds |
|
1995 |
CAR |
2 |
6 |
14 |
|
1996 |
CAR |
6 |
5 |
12 |
|
1997 |
CAR |
18 |
14 |
9 |
|
1998 |
CAR |
24 |
29 |
28 |
|
Average |
12.5 |
13.5 |
15.8 |
|
|
1999 |
IND |
25 |
13 |
19 |
|
2000 |
IND |
20 |
18 |
18 |
|
2001 |
IND |
26 |
26 |
27 |
|
Average |
23.7 |
19.0 |
21.3 |
|
|
2002 |
HOU |
19 |
11 |
10 |
|
2003 |
HOU |
29 |
32 |
31 |
|
2004 |
HOU |
21 |
24 |
24 |
|
2005 |
HOU |
30 |
31 |
24 |
|
Average |
24.8 |
24.5 |
22.3 |
|
Well, this is interesting. Our bad stat (PaYds) doesn't show any kind of discernable pattern for any of Fang's 3 tenures. However, now there is, in fact, a pattern of PaDVOA regression during Fang's tenure in CAR, as well as a nYPA regression when he was in IND (and perhaps CAR if you loosen your definition of "gets worse over time"). But before you go thinking this proves the theory, remember that, with 2 stats and 3 tenures, there were 6 opportunities to see the regression pattern. Yet, it only shows up in 2 (or perhaps 3) of them. That's by no means enough evidence to say Fango's defense, in general, have a tendency to get worse over time. If the Niners win 2 or 3 of their first 6 games, you wouldn't say they have a tendency to win. In fact, you'd probably say the opposite.
Now for Fang's run defense; below is the table showing the rankings (Ru = Run):
|
Year |
Tm |
RuDVOA |
YPC |
RuYds |
|
1995 |
CAR |
17 |
4 |
10 |
|
1996 |
CAR |
10 |
26 |
8 |
|
1997 |
CAR |
23 |
17 |
22 |
|
1998 |
CAR |
15 |
25 |
26 |
|
Average |
16.3 |
18.0 |
16.5 |
|
|
1999 |
IND |
24 |
26 |
18 |
|
2000 |
IND |
23 |
23 |
25 |
|
2001 |
IND |
31 |
29 |
25 |
|
Average |
26.0 |
26.0 |
22.7 |
|
|
2002 |
HOU |
22 |
14 |
28 |
|
2003 |
HOU |
22 |
22 |
31 |
|
2004 |
HOU |
13 |
23 |
13 |
|
2005 |
HOU |
30 |
30 |
32 |
|
Average |
21.8 |
22.3 |
26.0 |
|
Here, RuYds maybe - maybe! - shows a regression pattern in IND. On the other hand, RuDVOA shows no regression pattern, and YPC only shows regression in HOU. So, again, although there are a couple of specific instances of Fang's squads getting worse over time according to good statistics, there's certainly not enough evidence to consider it a defining feature of Fang's NFL defenses. And looking forward, there's no reason to believe any kind of regression pattern will show up during his tenure with the Niners.
THE TWO ELEFANGS IN THE ROOM
So I think I've demonstrated that there's no statistical reason to worry about a Fang-led 49ers defense getting worse with age. However, let's say that I had demonstrated the opposite. Let's say I had shown that, even according to good stats like DVOA, SRS, etc., there was indeed a clearly discernible pattern of regression in CAR, IND, and HOU. Well, even in that case, there are 2 huge elephants in the room that would still caution us against predicting that the 49ers' defense will get worse over time too:
- Sample size
- Context
With regards to sample size, I don't know many statisticians who would make bold predictions based on 12 observations, nor would they do so based on 3 groups of 3 or 4 observations. I'm not going to turn this into a statistics class, but suffice it to say that there's a reason why political polls don't survey only 3 people. The probability that the opinions of these 3 people are representative of the opinions of the entire US population is ridiculously small. Analogously, the probability that Fang's DC tenures in CAR, IND, and HOU are representative of the entire universe of possible Fang defenses is also ridiculously small. Therefore, to extrapolate a pattern of regression - if it existed - to Fang's new job in SF based on a sample of 3 would be pretty laughable statistically speaking.
One reason why small sample sizes are especially pernicious in making predictions about football is because performance is highly reliant on context, particular with respect to the symbiotic relationship between coaching and player personnel. Jon Gruden couldn't win a Super Bowl without Brad Johnson and Tony Dungy's former defensive players. Brian Billick couldn't win a Super Bowl without a great defense and Tony Dungy's former quarterback. Tony Dungy couldn't win a Super Bowl with the guys he groomed for Gruden and Billick, but he could with a QB originally groomed by Jim Mora. Huh? Untangling these contextual webs is something you simply have to do when evaluating a coach or player statistically; the difficulty of doing so is one reason why people are so skeptical of using stats to talk about football.
The context of Fangio's previous DC gigs is instructive here. He's been the DC for 2 expansion teams (CAR & HOU) and a 3rd team (IND) that was ranked 28th in Defense DVOA and 27th in Defensive SRS the season before he got there. So really, we're talking about an incredibly bare cupboard of talent for The Fang when he arrived at each stop. In that context, shouldn't we instead be focusing on how the 1995 Panthers, 1999 Colts, and 2002 Texans actually overachieved in Fang's first season as DC?
Furthermore, when you look at the context of Fang's best defensive units according to the stats, the 1995 &1996 Panthers, you notice a veteran 3-4 defense (average age about 30), with Sam Mills at LILB, Carlton Bailey at RILB, Kevin Greene at LOLB, and Lamar Lathon at ROLB. As I and others have reiterated a million times on here, the 3-4 is all about the LBs. That was a hell of a LB unit that unsurprisingly started to decline when Greene left for SF in 1997. Oh, and did I mention Fang's gig as LB coach for the Dome Patrol Saints of the 1980s, one of the best LB corps of all time?
In contrast to those successful LB-rich defenses, Fang actually had to run a 4-3 in IND because he only had 3 good LBs. The 4-3 revolves around the DL, and he didn't have a good one...at all. Check out Pro Football Reference's team pages for the 1999-2001 Colts, and you'll see what I mean. Interestingly enough, the LBs on those defenses were by far the best unit talent-wise (Cornelius Bennett or Marcus Washington at LLB, Dwight Hollier or Rob Morris at MLB, and Mike Peterson at RLB), as well as performance-wise.
When he went to HOU, he apparently had enough of the 4-3 because he installed a 3-4 defense...expansion roster be damned! Unlike his previous 3-4 defenses, the LBs on the 2002-2005 Texans were basically a bunch of nobodies. Is it any wonder, then, that Fang's 3-4 defense was pretty bad in HOU?
So, in my view, you can't divorce the performance of Fang's previous defenses to the context in which he coached them. He was positional coach for one of the greatest LB corps of all time as part of a successful 3-4 defense in NO, and he ran a Top-Five 3-4 defense with great, veteran LBs in CAR. At his less successful stops, Fang didn't even use the 3-4 in IND because he didn't have enough good LBs, and used the 3-4 by default in HOU because he didn't have enough talent, LB or otherwise. Given this contextual analysis, and the inevitability that Fang will be running the 3-4 in SF, the question we should be asking is not, "Is there a concern that Fangio's defenses seemed to regress statistically each year he was DC?" Rather, the question should be, "Is the 49ers' talent at LB more like the talent in NO during the 80s and CAR during the mid-90s or more like HOU's during the early-00s?" When it comes to the 49ers' performance on defense over the next few seasons, the answer to the latter question will prove to be far more meaningful than the answer to the former.
BOTTOM LINE
- The total yardage stats and rankings for Fang's previous NFL defenses are meaningless.
- According to better stats like DVOA, SRS, nYPA, and YPC, there's no pattern of Fang's NFL defenses getting worse every subsequent season.
- Even if there was a pattern, it would still be meaningless because it's based on an incredibly small, unrepresentative sample. I bet I could find a pattern of shoddier and shoddier work over the course of 3 years in your employment past.
- Even if there was a pattern, who cares? This is the NFL. You have to put any statistical analysis into the context of Vic's previous DC gigs. Going forward, the most important thing for the 49ers is whether or not he's got the talent at LB to run a successful 3-4 defense in SF. If he does, I bet you'd forget all about that pattern you saw.
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Comments
To prevent the inevitable....
I am going to just comment….Nice post!!
And speaking of necessary talent at LB....
can they just clone P-52 3 times and put them at all LB positions?
by sanfranfanmdk on Jan 14, 2011 3:41 PM PST up reply actions
I just hope he's not the Jimmy Raye of defense
like the stats suggest, or lie, however you prefer to word it.
I just want to know how
I got by before i found this website, nice breakdown.
by tjhtjh on Jan 14, 2011 3:48 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Poll
Where I think you missed is that I think Capers’ defense more hinges on the DBs being good. I don’t think Fangio’s defense will struggle here because of the LBs, I think he will struggle because we don’t have good DBs.
+!
For instance, if we’re blitzing like mad but the blitz is picked up because Clay Matthewsor Chris Long isn’t on our team, the LAST hot read will be an outlet pass over the middle, but the first hot read is to find their speedster. Oh Randy Moss, where are you? And if he’s not covered, TD!
So, yes, CBs and Safteies and going to have to cover in this system.
LBs can prevent shorter gains if they cover well against the screens and slants. But the first thing we have to do is prevent the “6” if the blitzes are picked up by their blockers.
I'll add Danny
That it was a great, and informative article.
Again, I just think you focused on only the LBs, when there is responsibility in the secondary just as much. Look at NO’s defense, where they run a similar defense Fangio is expected to run. They are weak in the secondary, blitz from all over, but because the DBs are left one on one, they need to be technically sound, know their roles, and be actually good, because if it’s a safety blitz, those DBs have no help, or if it’s a CB blitz, the Safety is the only valve. Look at how Seattle attacked NO’s defense, NO would blitz, Seattle would throw deep, or pick on Harper knowing there was no help at all one on one.
In comparison, look at Green Bay, they have on of the better CB tandems in the league, thus allowing Capers to blitz from all over, and the DBs can handle the one on one coverage with no help. Look at the way the Eagles tried to attack the GB defense, they tried to attack over the top knowing they had one on one on the outside, and the last play of the game, the DB came up with the INT.
I feel the LBs of course have to be good, but I think it’s more the DBs that hold this system in place. If you are blitzing your LBs, Safeties, or DBs, your secondary HAS to be able to hold up man to man with no help. NO and GB, both run similar systems on defense, and both in the playoffs showed you how to exploit the defense, one handled it well, the other didn’t, and I think it was 90% because of the Corners and Safeties, either handling one on one, or knowing where they need to be and what there role is.
Totally agree
I actually think that the DBs in a 3-4 are more important than the LBs. I think we have the talent at LB to be successful with any DC in a 3-4, it’s the DBs I’m concerned about.
Wishes I could quote the a piece from above in blinking letters.
I actually think that the DBs in a 3-4 are more important than the LBs.
The 3-4 demands you have a good DB corps. We have been building up our LB corps (to an extent) and shoud reap the benefits from it, but we need to focus on our DB corps and heavily. When you think of the early (read WCO) defense what players do you remember most? I’m sure some DL and LB come to mind but players such as Ronnie and Deion and Merton and even Dana. We have to pay attention to this. (stops blathering)
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Jan 14, 2011 5:18 PM PST up reply actions
GB
i could argue that having matthews at LOLB and hawk at LILB is the straw that stirs their drink. and you’d reply that having woodson et al. back there allows matthews to be a sack machine. i’d argue the other way around. this is just a permutation of the age-old argument whether teams get sacks, hurries, hits, etc. because of their pass rushers or their coverage guys.
obviously, the DBs are important. i just think that, if i were to look at it a little more closely in terms of the stats, you find a lot more good 3-4 defenses with great LB corps and so-so DBs than you do with great DBs and so-so- LBs, esp at LILB and LOLB.
i’ll also add that, per my post 2 years ago previewing free agent pass rushers, it’s pretty clear that the sacks in a 3-4 come from the OLBs, so you better have 1 or 2 really good ones regardless of whether or not you believe DBs are that important.
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Jan 14, 2011 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
That is tough
But I think the DB’s are a little more important in a scheme where blitzing is involved since they have to cover the back end if the blitz is picked up. Yes you need a rush but a blitz can get you that rush if you have the DB’s that can cover. IMO
point taken...
but are we so sure that fangio is blitz-happy? also, isn’t the whole point of the 3-4 to be able to disguise where the rush is coming from so you don’t have to blitz? seems like your whole argument is predicated on blitzing. i don’t think fangio has to turn into herman goering vis-a-vis blitzing for the niners to get a rush from the 3-4.
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Jan 14, 2011 6:26 PM PST up reply actions
hahaha, I like you already
well he is a Dom Capers disciple and we know Dom likes to use the blitz. I believe he states his scheme is a 3-4 zone-blitz. I know he will blitz how much I guess is yet to be seen
I am with you both
I have been saying that if we get solid corners that will improve the pass rush in a Fangio system
Ah, yes ...
Florida Danny. Numbers. They go together like gin and tonic! Danny, I love you … you can explain numbers better than anyone I’ve ever listered to … and I’m a retired CFO.
By the way, I like Fangio and think that he will do a great job for us. He will certainly be more aggressive than Manusky, which probably has PWilly and TK jumping up and down. No doubt that it can cut both ways, but aggressive defense is a whole lot much more fun to watch and far less frustrating.
When they decide who they will sign as DB coach, it will be very interest to see what he can do with our crew of safties. Now, if we can just get some additional help at CB!
by 49erFanSince1950 on Jan 14, 2011 4:14 PM PST reply actions
very good
considerable improvement over vance joseph.
Looks good
has some DC experience and did good for that one year with Denver (of note) when they had a good pass rush.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Jan 14, 2011 5:32 PM PST up reply actions
I voted No
I don’t think the current group of LBs is all that great outside of Willis. At present time, it’s hard to count Spikes or Lawson as members of this team because both are potential free agents. Retaining Lawson and adding a solid pass rushing OLB would make this unit better. Spikes holding off retirement would keep a pretty impressive tandem together in the middle.
Fangio needs a bit of help in terms of talent, especially in the secondary, but I think he can get the job done. I’d like to know what type of blitz percentages he had in his tenure as DC. I think it’s a safe assumption that Fangio’s defense can be successful if the talent is there.
by Andrew Davidson on Jan 14, 2011 4:32 PM PST reply actions
It could work for us...
Nice post. Well presented and makes a case for giving Fangio at least a couple of seasons to see what he can do with our personnel.
I'll abstain for now
We need to see who they get in the draft and FA. Right now, other than Spikes and Willis, we lack any consistent pass rushers on the outside. If we can come away with Woodley in FA or draft one in the 1st or 2nd round, then I would pick “yes”.
our OLB pass-rushing is ok
The key is the scheme that the coordinator calls up. Last year the 49ers were ranked 4th in sacks, this year 14th (which is still better than 1/2 the league). Manusky was much more timid this year in what he dialed up.
How timid or not timid...
do you see Fangio being?
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Jan 14, 2011 5:34 PM PST up reply actions
At Stanford, Fangio blitzed early and blitzed often.....
from all possible angles. He disguised his blitzes effectively. Despite converting the defense from 4-3 to 3-4 he was able to improve the Cardinal defense rank from the 90s (97?) last season to 22 this season.
Stanford players referred to hm as Lord Fangio because of his raspy voice and devilishly clever attacking schemes
by Mood_Indigo on Jan 14, 2011 10:34 PM PST up reply actions
Cool
So Jimmy Hard Balls has Darth Vader and Julius Caesar handling his Offense and Defense. I can hang with that. :-)
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Jan 15, 2011 12:47 AM PST up reply actions
My question is more in terms of "Game management"
We had a problem last year (admittedly more on the offensive than defensive side) and at times the the coordinators only exacerbated the issue for a “young” coach. Yes this was a Sing ran coaching staff but nonetheless we must remember that while Harbuagh is an excellent coach and leader, he is new to the NFL. I think Sing would have done a bit better (not going to say he would have been the answer at all) if he had had some more “saged” input on the sidelines. Otherwise I think that Fangio will be just fine, especially if he goes with 3-4. That statement is not so much based on my thinking 3-4 is the best thing since sliced bread as much as changing from one “style” to the other is not akin to just flipping a switch. A change in scheme such as that would impose at least a temporary (in terms of years) setback to the defense as far as getting personnel needed. With changes in coaching staff, and most probably offensive scheme, we need some continuity on defense, and that can be gained by maintaining our scheme, at least for present. I think if we look over history we can see that such reasonably large changes in scheme do put forth a penalty due to that change. And that is a penalty we, I feel, cannot take in that area at the moment.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Jan 14, 2011 4:45 PM PST reply actions
The changes in regards to the scheme on offense will not be as vast as many think
The offensive coaching staff will be different from what the 49ers had last season, but the continuity in regards to them will still be there. They led one of the best college offenses last season, and know one another real well. In terms of scheme, the coaches will be utilizing the skillset of VD, Crabs, Gore etc…, so i don’t see that as an issue
What i see the problem being is the fact that an extended lockout could occur, that could bring some issues in regards to the relationship between the players and the coaches. If we have OTA’s, training camp etc.., there will be no problems with continuity.
Mock draft 2.0: 1) CB- Prince Amukamara, Nebraska 2) DE- Cameron Jordan, California 3) LB- Bruce Carter, North Carolina 4) WR- Austin Pettis, Boise State 4) QB- Pat Devlin, Deleware 5) RB- Darren Evans, Virginia Tech 6) S- Tejay Johnson, Texas Christian 6) FB- Owen Merecic, Stanford 7) OL- Danny Watkins, Baylor 7) LB- Wayne Daniels, Texas Christian
by nocal81(Vincent) on Jan 14, 2011 5:26 PM PST reply actions
yes sir
CBA deal is where it all lies. It could effect what FA QB we go after on top of not being able to install any nuances that the coaches have in store. Its the only thing i am worried about at this point
True
wrote an article on that yesterday. The CBA issue really could harm out opportunity to pick up an upgrade at the QB position. If a CBA is signed relatively soon after March 1st, i can guarantee you that Harb and Co will bring in one of the best veteran QBs on the market. Actually, i think you could take that to the bank. Also, you would see an issue with continuity between the players and coaches. However, Chesapeake was using college coaches coming to the NFL as a premise for his argument, and i just don’t see that as the case. The CBA is a much larger issue in regards to that
Mock draft 2.0: 1) CB- Prince Amukamara, Nebraska 2) DE- Cameron Jordan, California 3) LB- Bruce Carter, North Carolina 4) WR- Austin Pettis, Boise State 4) QB- Pat Devlin, Deleware 5) RB- Darren Evans, Virginia Tech 6) S- Tejay Johnson, Texas Christian 6) FB- Owen Merecic, Stanford 7) OL- Danny Watkins, Baylor 7) LB- Wayne Daniels, Texas Christian
by nocal81(Vincent) on Jan 14, 2011 5:37 PM PST up reply actions
Couldnt agree more
I think your dead on with the QB and CBA situation. It will hurt the teams like us,carolina,denver and all the teams with new coaches especially if they need to go out and get a FA
Ed Donatell has an impressive resume
Maybe Danny could do a statistical analysis since he’s scared the crap out of me with the Fang stuff
wait til next year!
I just heard on a Dallas Ticket Radio station that
the 49ers are interested in Brett Maxie as their new Secondary Coach. I don’t have a link, was listening to it on the radio in my car. Link to Maxie’s career is here
He played over a decade in the NFL, including with the 49ers. Maxie has been a defensive assistant with the Cowboys since 2008. This surprises me because i really thought Garrett would promote him instead of retaining Dave Camp
Mock draft 2.0: 1) CB- Prince Amukamara, Nebraska 2) DE- Cameron Jordan, California 3) LB- Bruce Carter, North Carolina 4) WR- Austin Pettis, Boise State 4) QB- Pat Devlin, Deleware 5) RB- Darren Evans, Virginia Tech 6) S- Tejay Johnson, Texas Christian 6) FB- Owen Merecic, Stanford 7) OL- Danny Watkins, Baylor 7) LB- Wayne Daniels, Texas Christian
by nocal81(Vincent) on Jan 14, 2011 5:42 PM PST reply actions
Well Scratch that. Ed Donatell is our new Secondary Coach
7 seasons as a Defensive Coordinator for the Packers and Falcons. NICE!!!!!
Mock draft 2.0: 1) CB- Prince Amukamara, Nebraska 2) DE- Cameron Jordan, California 3) LB- Bruce Carter, North Carolina 4) WR- Austin Pettis, Boise State 4) QB- Pat Devlin, Deleware 5) RB- Darren Evans, Virginia Tech 6) S- Tejay Johnson, Texas Christian 6) FB- Owen Merecic, Stanford 7) OL- Danny Watkins, Baylor 7) LB- Wayne Daniels, Texas Christian
by nocal81(Vincent) on Jan 14, 2011 5:46 PM PST up reply actions
Stat's are kewl and all , pending which way your looking for information ...
… so my question is , does his Defensive’s win game’s or lose game’s , keeep’s them in game’s … What’s his deal …!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
Defenses led by Donatell
Packers 2000: 14th
Packers 2001: 5th
Packers 2002: 12th
Packers 2003: 11th
Falcons 2004: 14th
Falcons 2005: 18th
Falcons 2006: 15th
Not bad for our new Secondary Coach. Wouldn’t be all too happy if he was hired to be the Defensive Coordinator, but as a defensive assistant it is actually a great hire
Mock draft 2.0: 1) CB- Prince Amukamara, Nebraska 2) DE- Cameron Jordan, California 3) LB- Bruce Carter, North Carolina 4) WR- Austin Pettis, Boise State 4) QB- Pat Devlin, Deleware 5) RB- Darren Evans, Virginia Tech 6) S- Tejay Johnson, Texas Christian 6) FB- Owen Merecic, Stanford 7) OL- Danny Watkins, Baylor 7) LB- Wayne Daniels, Texas Christian
by nocal81(Vincent) on Jan 14, 2011 5:52 PM PST reply actions
Based on their stats
OLBs needs some work. Only keep Lawson and look for FAs.
Here's money for a cab. Now entering sleep mode. beep beep beep zzzzzzzzz
Spikes & Willis are the only 100% Solid LB's
We have others Lawson, LaBoy, Brooks, Haralson, who need some additional coaching to make it happen. The middle two need no assistance. If Spikes stays then we just build the outside, pass rush capable LB’s and go from there. Add a CB and coach them up.
Jay Cruise
Ab Workouts Mind Body Spirit Arthritis Treatment
Lawson
will not be back because we are sticking with the 3-4 defense. It is better for all parties involved if he goes to a traditional 4-3 team.
Mock draft 2.0: 1) CB- Prince Amukamara, Nebraska 2) DE- Cameron Jordan, California 3) LB- Bruce Carter, North Carolina 4) WR- Austin Pettis, Boise State 4) QB- Pat Devlin, Deleware 5) RB- Darren Evans, Virginia Tech 6) S- Tejay Johnson, Texas Christian 6) FB- Owen Merecic, Stanford 7) OL- Danny Watkins, Baylor 7) LB- Wayne Daniels, Texas Christian
by nocal81(Vincent) on Jan 14, 2011 5:55 PM PST up reply actions
Not true, its more of how he’s used and who’s on the other side. Look at Harrison in Pitt, pretty much a nobody until he hit Pittsburgh. Lawson with an OLB that demands a double team. Especially lined up next to Smith. Lawson is the best coverage OLB, playing in the 3-4. He is a must keep. Of used right he could be a beast. Keep Lawson.
Jealous cuz fiends got they work and complained.....
sounds like...
a problem then when OLB, not ILB, is where all the sacks come in a 3-4, eh?
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Jan 14, 2011 6:11 PM PST up reply actions
Thats my point
Lawson isn’t a real great 3-4 OLB, he could be a nice 3-4 ILB; but i don’t think the 49ers have that in their plans. In my opinion, Lawson would make a tremendous 4-3 OLB. He has compiled only 12 sacks over the last three seasons. However, Lawson has totaled 172 tackles over that same time, really good for a 3-4 OLB
Mock draft 2.0: 1) CB- Prince Amukamara, Nebraska 2) DE- Cameron Jordan, California 3) LB- Bruce Carter, North Carolina 4) WR- Austin Pettis, Boise State 4) QB- Pat Devlin, Deleware 5) RB- Darren Evans, Virginia Tech 6) S- Tejay Johnson, Texas Christian 6) FB- Owen Merecic, Stanford 7) OL- Danny Watkins, Baylor 7) LB- Wayne Daniels, Texas Christian
by nocal81(Vincent) on Jan 14, 2011 6:19 PM PST up reply actions
a thing to remember about Lawson
he lines up strong side and is often covering tight ends and not rushing at all… it is the weak side OLB that should really be expected to light up the QB coming from his blind side.
by Sigelvictory on Jan 14, 2011 6:53 PM PST up reply actions
Thats true
but that shouldn’t be the role in a 3-4 defense, that is the role of an OLB in a 4-3. Listen, i am not discounting the necessity of an OLB being able to cover in a 3-4, as we see with Haralson, who can’t, it does make a huge difference. I just believe that Lawson would be better utilized in a 4-3, and we would be better of brining in a natural 3-4 OLB such as Hali, Woodley etc…
Mock draft 2.0: 1) CB- Prince Amukamara, Nebraska 2) DE- Cameron Jordan, California 3) LB- Bruce Carter, North Carolina 4) WR- Austin Pettis, Boise State 4) QB- Pat Devlin, Deleware 5) RB- Darren Evans, Virginia Tech 6) S- Tejay Johnson, Texas Christian 6) FB- Owen Merecic, Stanford 7) OL- Danny Watkins, Baylor 7) LB- Wayne Daniels, Texas Christian
by nocal81(Vincent) on Jan 14, 2011 7:18 PM PST up reply actions
Hence the vanilla defensive scheme as a problem.
Jealous cuz fiends got they work and complained.....
On the same page bro
On another note. Missing you Rlott, not on as much as you used to be huh? Always liked your opinions!
Mock draft 2.0: 1) CB- Prince Amukamara, Nebraska 2) DE- Cameron Jordan, California 3) LB- Bruce Carter, North Carolina 4) WR- Austin Pettis, Boise State 4) QB- Pat Devlin, Deleware 5) RB- Darren Evans, Virginia Tech 6) S- Tejay Johnson, Texas Christian 6) FB- Owen Merecic, Stanford 7) OL- Danny Watkins, Baylor 7) LB- Wayne Daniels, Texas Christian
by nocal81(Vincent) on Jan 14, 2011 8:01 PM PST up reply actions
I'd like to see how Manusky's stats stack up against Fangios.
Did we gain or lose when Manusky left?
SF defense dvoa rankings under manusky
year – overall/pass/run
2010 – 13/24/6
2009 – 3/7/4
2008 – 18/20/17
2007 – 24/26/18
remember, though, niners didn’t make full-time switch to 3-4 until singletary became interim in 2008. before that, they were playing nolan BS hybrid defense.
take from these stats what you will.
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Jan 14, 2011 6:18 PM PST up reply actions
Same Coaching Tree
I believe they are both Dom Caper disciples. I feel like Fangio will bring heat with the blitz a little more than Manusky did this past season and that may or may not have to do with Sing. I believe there is a quote from Fangio somewhere that states something to the effect that : I don’t gamble, I take educated risks
3rd Down
I don’t know about you guys (and gals), but I get very frustrated with the inability to get off the field on third down. When looking at stats, doesn’t an offense that gives up a tons of yards imply that they can’t get off the field on third down? Sounds like a “bend but don’t break” defense. Thoughts about stopping offenses on third down in relation to yards/game?
yes and no
I don’t think great offensive teams see that many 3rd downs and if they do they arent 3rd and long.
Manusky with a parting shot to SF
Says he is going to San Diego to be with a winner and that he isn’t shuffling his feet. That he has done that for four years already.
Bring it on, pal!
When looking at a D's performance
the quality of the teams O is often overlooked. If the O can’t convert 3rd downs and stay on the field, the D is gonna tire out and give up the booty… How were the O’s of the teams he coached for?
Great Point
another reason I think our defense should improve
On the flip side,
A powerful O that chews up the clock and puts points on the board is a D’s best friend. They don’t leave a lot of time for the other team to gain yards, and they force them to become predictable playing catch-up
by Sigelvictory on Jan 14, 2011 6:49 PM PST up reply actions
Dial up the pressure
If we can sustain drives offensively and score then we can dial up some pressure via the blitz, assuming we get some DB help
stanford in the second half or the orange bowl
being a great example… they got the lead and then they turned the dogs loose. I felt sorry for VT’s QB
by Sigelvictory on Jan 14, 2011 6:54 PM PST up reply actions
WAIT did we get a new secondary coach? i heard the news from top of this thread post
But i didn’t hear anything from any official sites like yahoo.
"Winning means being unafraid to lose." – Fran Tarkenton
Great article. Now why do I get the feeling that our defense will be coached by these guys?


Props to York/Baalke for reeling in Harbaugh. Now everybody get back to work!
twitter me @grantmp1
nice
Props to York/Baalke for reeling in Harbaugh. Now everybody get back to work!
twitter me @grantmp1
Fangio brings a much better scheme to the table than Manusky
Running a 3-3-5 packages on 3rd down and 7 was an incredibly pouras usage of the play calling chart. We will see Fangio blitz in those situations, rather than play dime coverage and allowing the QB 4-5 seconds to throw the ball; absolutely not secondary can stop a completion at that point.
Additionally, you wull see Fangio moving Willis to the outisde on obvious passing situations, this allowing him to get to the QB on a more frequent basis; having Spikes and an OLB that can cover (not Haralson) will also help in this arrangement. Also, whether its Asamugha (if we sign him), or Clements (if he takes a pay cut), you will also see nickel blitz packages coming from the corner, rotating the safeties to the outside and dropping LBs into coverage. Of course, this will depend on personel. If we are able to sign Asamugha, its possible to leave him on an island, blitz the safeties (Mays), and hold court at the LB position for the intermediate routes.
Mock draft 2.0: 1) CB- Prince Amukamara, Nebraska 2) DE- Cameron Jordan, California 3) LB- Bruce Carter, North Carolina 4) WR- Austin Pettis, Boise State 4) QB- Pat Devlin, Deleware 5) RB- Darren Evans, Virginia Tech 6) S- Tejay Johnson, Texas Christian 6) FB- Owen Merecic, Stanford 7) OL- Danny Watkins, Baylor 7) LB- Wayne Daniels, Texas Christian
by nocal81(Vincent) on Jan 14, 2011 7:26 PM PST reply actions
This is true
It makes me salivate thinking about disguising blitzes and not playing zone/prevent in 3rd and long
LOL
Are we the Stanford 49ers? or are we still the San Francisco 49ers lol?
Really overplayed
It makes absolute sense to grab these coaches from Stanford at this point. After all, you may have to consider the 2010 Stanford Coaching Staff the best in the NCAA
Mock draft 2.0: 1) CB- Prince Amukamara, Nebraska 2) DE- Cameron Jordan, California 3) LB- Bruce Carter, North Carolina 4) WR- Austin Pettis, Boise State 4) QB- Pat Devlin, Deleware 5) RB- Darren Evans, Virginia Tech 6) S- Tejay Johnson, Texas Christian 6) FB- Owen Merecic, Stanford 7) OL- Danny Watkins, Baylor 7) LB- Wayne Daniels, Texas Christian
by nocal81(Vincent) on Jan 14, 2011 8:00 PM PST up reply actions
That was funny
The first five times it was posted.
"Bears are crazy, Willie. They'll bite your head off if you're wearing steak on it."
by Blank x2 on Jan 14, 2011 8:11 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Hope he is good
Repping Dunmore, very cool. Good luck guys!
"We start wit straight--shots then get the bottle poppin!"
I think the notion that Fangio's defenses regress over time...
…is pretty much based on the decline that is clearly visible in the last year of each of his DC stints.
In the 4 statistical categories in the first table (overall D), the last year of each of the 3 tenures ist the worst in 11 out of 12 instances. The same is true for 7 out of 9 in the second table (pass D), and for 5 out of 9 in the third (run D). And over all three tables, 29 of the 30 possible last-year rankings are worse than the respective average.
So without a doubt, there is indeed a downward trend towards the end of each of his tenures.
Caution youselves: There is one big butt.
Errr… Actually it is one big BUT: The last year of his respective tenures was the worst by nearly all accounts, BUT it’s not the fact that it’s the last year that makes it a bad year. How could it? While those teams were playing those seasons and accumulating those statistics, it wasn’t even clear that it would be the last year respectively.
Actually, it’s the other way round: Having a bad year often leads to it being the last year, because the team’s management decides to part ways with a HC and his staff. It is very rare that you know in advance that a certain year will be the last for a certain coach. Most are fired after (or, in some instances, while) having a subpar year, which is why you will see a subpar season in the last year of nearly every coaching stint of nearly every coach with nearly every team.
So yes, you can make the case that there is a downward trend with Fangio’s defenses – but then you would pretty much have to make the same case for every coach.
Regression of team units does not mean that the coach is regressing
I think the two are pretty much seperated from one another in terms of accountability. Sometimes the coach can have great defensive schemes and the personel cannot utilize it effectively. Other times the coach can have horrible defensive strategy and the players can step up and overcome it. In Fangio’s case i would tend to believe that it is the former two of the above premises. There were certain points during his coaching career when over one quarter of the starting defense were rookies, and not even 1st round picks. Some turned out to be all-pro performers, but not one single person can argue that they were at that level during their rookie seasons.
I have watched multiple Stanford games on replay, simply because i consider myself a huge judge of player talent heading into the NFL, it is something i take pride in. In fact, i probablly replayed over half of the Cardinal games in TIVO or the internet. One thing that jumped out to me was the fact that Stanford utilized the blitzes in a way that they were not only disguised from the opposing offenses, but caught coaches in the PAC 10 off guard. Coaches that extend from the likes of Dennis Erickson (great college coach), Rick Dushybagger, Jeff Tedford, Lane Kiffin etc… some of the best offensive minds in the NCAA game. These schemes and personel sets were pro like in not only the way that they were coached by the staff, but the way that it was apparent that the players were on board, and understood the schemes.
For me, Fangio represents the new era of San Francisco 49ers football. A mentality that isn’t afraid to take risks because of the rewards. Someone that will blitz on 3rd and long, that will send the MLB while placing coverage responsibilities on the OLB. It is the utter confusion that goes around within the opposing teams sidelines, and the delay of games, the false starts, the miscommunications, and so on. This is what i saw from Fangio’s Cardinal led defense, and this is what i expect to see from the Fangio led 49er defense
Mock draft 2.0: 1) CB- Prince Amukamara, Nebraska 2) DE- Cameron Jordan, California 3) LB- Bruce Carter, North Carolina 4) WR- Austin Pettis, Boise State 4) QB- Pat Devlin, Deleware 5) RB- Darren Evans, Virginia Tech 6) S- Tejay Johnson, Texas Christian 6) FB- Owen Merecic, Stanford 7) OL- Danny Watkins, Baylor 7) LB- Wayne Daniels, Texas Christian
by nocal81(Vincent) on Jan 14, 2011 9:42 PM PST up reply actions
Would like to know, NoCal81
If we’re going to blitz, whether they are well disguised or not, two problems come to mind:
1. Don’t you have to have players that can get free of their blockers so that the pass rushing is effective? Because that’s not the kind of team we have at the moment. We would need one more pass rusher on the D-line to take Sopoag’s place, and two OLBs that no how to get after the QB. I understand the CBs and safeties blitz too, but you stiil in most circumstances will have to rely on the D-line and OLBs to break through the line to open things up. So it seems to me we’re three players away from making those kinds of blitz packages work. And that’s A LOT of missing pieces, especially when you had the fact that our CBs and Safeties are also not great! We’d better pick a lot of good FAs and draft picks to fill and add depth to all those spots.
2. I’ve seen Manusky try to blitz and it fials misreably. Because of what I said above, what happens is that the QB has too much time to make a hot read during the blitz. Instead of an avalance as soon as the ball is snapped, there are OLinemen and RBs picking up our pass rushers and the QB burns us. How many times did we se that? We don’t have the horses, man. We need players to pull off Fangio’s system.
3. The screen pass. If I have to pick one thing for the last 5 years that the opposition BURNS us with a number of critical times a game that we ourselves SUCK at on offense, it’s the screen pass. Great teams have at least 3 and sometimes as many as 10 screen packages that are hot reads on blitzes. Alex Smith looked like he was about to lateral to a defensive end every time a screen pass was called. So many times the screen pass would be the difference maker between us winning and losing. They would pull off 20 yard runs on their screens, and their D would blow up our screens.
So how do we prevent these things from recurring?
1. We need at least four new defensive starters. DL pass rusher. 2 OLBs and a shut down CB.
2. Fangio neds to teach our D how to blow up screen passes when we’re in blitz packages.
3. We need a QB!!! And he needs to become a great screen passer. We haven’t had one of those since Jeff Garcia. And haven’t had an OC that knows how to run them effectively.
Lots of help neded. Any suggestions who and where we’re going to find these players? Coaches need players to make their systems affective. Right now we’re 5 short.
Well
Great points, all of them
You need safeties that can play man coverage up the middle or switch to nickel corner when we send the blitzes. Currently we don’t have those type of players, Reggie Smith is the closest we have to that. Lawson can’t get off his man, even in a 1-1 situation, and Haralson can’t cover worth a darn. If we are to adapt those blitz schemes the personel needs to match, as you rightly addressed.
Player possibilities
LB- LaMarr Woodley
LB- Tamba Hali
LB- Marcus Spears (plays DE)
DE/LB- Shaun Ellis
S- Quinten Mikell (?)
S- Sean Jones
Mock draft 2.0: 1) CB- Prince Amukamara, Nebraska 2) DE- Cameron Jordan, California 3) LB- Bruce Carter, North Carolina 4) WR- Austin Pettis, Boise State 4) QB- Pat Devlin, Deleware 5) RB- Darren Evans, Virginia Tech 6) S- Tejay Johnson, Texas Christian 6) FB- Owen Merecic, Stanford 7) OL- Danny Watkins, Baylor 7) LB- Wayne Daniels, Texas Christian
by nocal81(Vincent) on Jan 15, 2011 11:38 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Not so great points..
Manusky wasn’t blitzing.. he was just sending more guys at the QB where we were already outnumbered with blockers. If they have 3 guys to block your 2..say… and you send another…. all you’ve accomplished is taking one more defender out of the play and leaving a wide open zone.
When you blitz correctly, you aren’t depending on guys to get free of their blockers.
I don’t care if you bring back Lawrence Taylor in his prime.. 9 times out of 10 a QB is going to be able to hit his hot read before your guy can get off a block.
When you blitz, you are using misdirection and motion to outnumber the offense at the point of attack when the down, distance, and formation suggest a 5 or 7 step drop. If the blitz disguise fails, the audible will be into a 3 step drop hot read and the blitz has no chance.
Or instead of disguising blitz/no blitz, you misdirect the offense as to where it is coming from and let them audible the line protection to that side, then drop that side into short zones and send the blitz from the other side leaving at least 1 guy a free run at the QB.
You can actually send less blitzers than the offense has blockers as long as you outnumber them at the point of attack.
This is how Pittsburgh blitzes, this is how Baltimore blitzes, this is how all of the terrifying 3-4 defenses blitz.
If your blitz scheme counts on guys getting free of their blockers.. you’ve already lost… and no dream Free Agent team you can possibly put together will change that.
And our screens don’t work because we don’t set them up. They aren’t a normal play you can just call randomly.. or go to them every time you are in 3rd and long. Yet this was how we were using them, and that is why they fail.
Our entire coaching staff was horrible at understanding the fundamentals of offensive and defensive schemes. Which is why they are all finding employment elsewhere.
without a doubt?
if all doubt can be removed with a barely-real trend that covers 3 or 4 time points, i never want you on my jury if i ever get put on trial for a crime i didn’t commit.
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Jan 15, 2011 2:31 PM PST up reply actions
That trend does not remove any doubts that I might or might not have, and I have not said that it does.
“Without a doubt” refers SOLELY to the EXISTENCE of that trend. It is there, in the very data you provided, small sample size or not. The sample size is only relevant for the validity of any assumptions one might make based on that trend, not for the existence of the trend itself.
(By the way, I would actually assume that you could find a much bigger sample size for the trend I’m describing – re “you will see a subpar season in the last year of nearly every coaching stint of nearly every coach with nearly every team”).
My main point was that one should NOT assume what that trend seems to be indicating.
by musketeer54 on Jan 16, 2011 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
I can't help but think of a joke
An accountant is standing before St Peter and St Peter asks him how much 2+2 is. The accountant answeres, “Anything you want it to be.” Numbers are really funny like that. You can twist them around to support almost anything you want. It’s one of the reasons why I’ve hated this whole idea that Cliff Lee is the greatest post season pitcher ever. He only pitched in around 10-15 games in the post season, which is an increadibly small sample size.
So let’s twist the numbers around for this. In his first two years in Carolina, Fangio’s record for top 9 finish out of the the catagories listed was 11-9. If you go to top 16, his record for the first two years in Carolina was 18-2. In his first 3 years in Carolina, his record for top 16 finishes was 23-7. That means, outside of his first two years in Carolina, his record for top 9 finishes in all the catagories listed was only 2-57, and his record for top 16 finishes outside of his first 3 years in Carolina was only 13-36. In other words, if you get rid of his first 2 or 3 years in Carolina, his defenses almost always finished in the bottom half of the league.
But here’s the problem. There’s other factors playing a part in that. Maybe he didn’t have as skilled of players as he had in Carolina for the first few years. Maybe the offense struggled more, meaning more work was placed on the defense. Honestly, who can really say. They’re are so many different factory involved, it’s almost impossible to predict what will happen in the future. But that sure doesn’t stop us from trying.
Don't trust this guy. He lies.
i think...
that was basically my post boiled down to 3 paragraphs. good job.
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Jan 15, 2011 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
I really hope he will do it good there. If he has been hired it must be because of something and regardless of the statistics I think he will do a good work for the team. That is what will matter in the end of the day.
Jordan & God
I'm still working on acquiring the equipment.
Get ready Santa Clara 2012!!
Nice job by the way. Are we going to see any SEM this year?
Harbaugh will find a QB and he will succeed.
haha...
let’s first answer the question, “are we going to see more posts from you this year?” baby steps, goatfather. baby steps.
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Jan 15, 2011 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
Ahhh...
A Florida Danny statistical analysis on a sunny morning with coffee in hand. All is right again.

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