Pass Rusher Discussion

by Mr. Jesse From Anchorage, AK on Jan 22, 2011 1:34 AM PST

If we do not take a franchise QB with # 7 and the depth of corner backs in this draft we may look at another weakness... Pass Rusher.

After the jump is some prospect profiles to spark a discussion on who is loved/hated between the top two pass rushers, please feel free to add profiles of any other QB killers

Robert Quinn North Carolina

6-5 270lbs Junior

Stats:

2008- 35 tackles, 6.5 tackles for loss, 2 sacks, 2 forced fumbles

2009- 52 tackles, 19 tackles for loss, 11 sacks, 6 forced fumbles

Pros:

Robert Quinn is expected to be the next great pass rusher out of North Carolina since Julius Peppers. Quinn is a super athletic defensive end that possesses all the physical skills to take over games in the NFL. Quinn has a rare initial burst off the line which allows him to get into the opponents backfield. Quinn’s quick burst and overall speed makes him a target for double teams. However, he has developed several pass rush moves that allow him to get around those double teams. His 6 forced fumbles last season only enhance his playmaking ability. Quinn makes his living in the offensive backfield.

Cons:

There is some concern that Quinn is undersized at 270lbs. However, he is just entering his Junior season and will have time to fill out weight wise. Along with a few extra pounds teams would like to see Quinn get stronger. He has the speed rush down pat but needs to develop a power rush move. He also could stand to be stronger and improve his run stopping ability. Some scouts also feel that Quinn could move to OLB in a 3-4 defensive scheme but he would need to improve his coverage skills to do so.

Thoughts:

As of now we have Robert Quinn ranked #7 on our 2011 NFL Big Board. Quinn’s athletic ability and size separates him from the rest of the defensive end class. He has been incredibly productive at UNC and with another good year he will likely bolt to the NFL.

Projected Round:

Depending on team needs you could see Quinn go as high as #1 or #2. He has so much potential that certain teams will not be able to pass on him. Mario Williams was the last DE to go #1 overall.

Von Miller Texas A&M

Strengths:

Outstanding speed; eliminates space in a hurry

Elite first step

Very intelligent; knows how to set up an OT

Technically sound with footwork

Plethora of rush moves

Great motor and gives nice second effort

Extremely productive junior year

Terrific range

Fluid athlete and can cover a lot of ground

Smooth hips in coverage

Can turn and run with running backs/tight ends

Stays low and runs with the arc

Instinctive with natural feel for the game

Tenacious pass rusher

Excellent counter moves

Smooth transition to 3-4 scheme in NFL

Leader with good work ethic

Playmaker

Still has upside

Weaknesses:

Very small frame

Gets overwhelmed at point of attack

Weak versus the run

Hand use could improve

Needs to add strength

Strictly a 3-4 outside linebacker

Summary: Von Miller doesn't have the size you look for, but he gets the most out of his abilities and has an extremely high level of athleticism. With the 3-4 scheme in the NFL now, you don't need to be 6-4, 255 pounds to play outside linebacker. All you need is a great first step and elite speed, and Miller brings both to the table. I have a first-round grade on Miller going into the season and I expect him to have a big senior year and end up being a first-round pick.

Player Comparison: Elvis Dumervil. Dumervil and Miller are both undersized, but they are tremendously athletic and wreak havoc on quarterbacks at the rush linebacker position.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.

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Tried to do embedded videos but had issues

here are youtube links

Robert Quinn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuKdkjZf5uk

Von Miller
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu7wh1VNnEo

by Mr. Jesse From Anchorage, AK on Jan 22, 2011 1:40 AM PST reply actions

If we are going to go pass rusher...

It’s going to be at OLB.

If you spend a 1st round pick on a guy, you expect him to come in and start, and our defensive line starters are solid.

Our outside linebackers however… both have limited skillsets.

If we could find an OLB that can rush the passer, cover out into the flat and hook zones, and isn’t a complete liability in pass coverage, I don’t think it would be stupid.

However… for every Elvis Dumervil there are 20 Vernon Gholstons.

I’d much rather just pay the money to get Tamba Hali and avoid playing the pass rusher draft lottery.

by Ougadas on Jan 22, 2011 6:36 AM PST reply actions

+1

by Since79 on Jan 22, 2011 9:07 AM PST up reply actions

Great idea, but ... there is no way that KC will let Hali get away!

by 49erFanSince1950 on Jan 22, 2011 7:04 PM PST up reply actions

or

trade down, pick up a extra pick or two and take justin houston

"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!

i can just see delonte west winning a game of poker against lebron, throwing down the cards he yells, "who's your daddy!"...."oh, sorry man"

by remembering9ergods on Jan 22, 2011 9:31 AM PST reply actions

I prefer Quinn to Miller (or any other DE/OLB prospect other than Bowers, who will be gone by #7). Why?

Two reasons:

1. He’s bigger. But more importantly, even though he is bigger …
2. He’s faster.

I fully believe that this guy can become the #1 pass-rushing OLB in the NFL … better than Hali. If he’s available at #7 and we don’t take him, we’re looking at another Aaron Rodgers situation. IMO, no CB in this draft will have as big an impact on a game as this guy.

by 49erFanSince1950 on Jan 22, 2011 7:12 PM PST reply actions

this

quinn and free agent signing of tamba hali would make the niners the best linebacker crew in the league.

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Jan 23, 2011 6:20 AM PST up reply actions

IMO Miller will be the better pro and a better fit for the 3-4....

look at the tape and tell me miller is NOT the more explosive of the two?? quicker first step, quicker off the line….and there is NO WAY u are SURE that quinn is FASTER than von miller….they haven’t officially run their 40’s or shuttle or anything yet…..AND even if he is a smidge faster that doesn’t mean he will have better hips, coverage ability or instict…robert quinn looks to me like a hand in the ground Right DE in a 4-3 scheme….and size has nothing to do with ability to get to the qb ie, clay matthews, dwight freeney, elmis dumervil, terell suggs..

by MUAJxxCEEM on Jan 25, 2011 1:38 PM PST up reply actions

there are sites that list 40 times although when they were taken is a ?

miller’s 40 = 4.56
quinn’s 40= 4.64
and the fastest is Dontay Moch = 4.38

"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!

i can just see delonte west winning a game of poker against lebron, throwing down the cards he yells, "who's your daddy!"...."oh, sorry man"

by remembering9ergods on Jan 25, 2011 3:31 PM PST up reply actions

in fact

after seeing Dontay Moch’s 40 time im going to go ahead and say the raiders pick him

"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!

i can just see delonte west winning a game of poker against lebron, throwing down the cards he yells, "who's your daddy!"...."oh, sorry man"

by remembering9ergods on Jan 25, 2011 3:35 PM PST up reply actions

probably....

hahah…al davis is probably figuring out a way to get into the first round THIS year just to get moch…hehehehe…..but i’m pretty sure we ALREADY have a better version of moch on OUR roster by the name of taylor mays…i saw somewhere that moch weighs 229 lbs…@ LB???? i know i said size doesn’t mean too much when gettin to the qb but i’m sure most OC’s would just run at the kid all day long..

by MUAJxxCEEM on Jan 26, 2011 8:15 AM PST up reply actions

Who is the "We" and "I"?

in the info about Quinn you have:

As of now we have Robert Quinn ranked #7 on our 2011 NFL Big Board.

and in the info about Von Miller you have:

I have a first-round grade on Miller going into the season and I expect him to have a big senior year and end up being a first-round pick.

Who are these sources? Or are you saying that’s you and just when you were talking about Quinn you suffered a brief moment of MPD? :-)

by ChesapeakeBay9er on Jan 23, 2011 9:14 AM PST reply actions

He should really disclose his sources.

Plagiarism is lame.

RE Quinn

RE Miller

Super Bowl XXIV: 49ers 55 - Broncos 10

by bonbrillio on Jan 23, 2011 10:23 AM PST up reply actions

I look forward to the combine as far as Quinn

I’ve seen stats on him as far as weight of 254 to the 270 noted above. He seems like a tweener and I’m not sure how well a tweener works for us. Otherwise I’d not be dashed with our taking him at 7 (depending on our other moves)

by ChesapeakeBay9er on Jan 23, 2011 9:18 AM PST reply actions

i'm not convinced Von Miller is first-round material.

not sure why, but he looks like a guy who would probably be average in the NFL.

my favorite pass rushers in this draft are Aldon Smith and Justin Houston.

We don't need 8 in the box. We have 52 in the box.

by these3words on Jan 23, 2011 3:23 PM PST reply actions

pass rushers are valuable

thats why he’s in the 1st round. Ya he needs to work on coverage and run tactics, but being a strong pass rusher means you’ll usually always have a job somewhere

by monkey spanker on Jan 23, 2011 6:17 PM PST up reply actions

yeah, but i'm just not convinced he's a first-round pass rusher.

We don't need 8 in the box. We have 52 in the box.

by these3words on Jan 23, 2011 8:41 PM PST up reply actions

Yeah...

Accurately scouting pass rushing OLB’s is hard to do.

There are teams that do it consistently well and pick up monsters like Clay Matthews in the bottom of the first.

There are teams that do it consistently bad and pick guys like Aaron Maybin in the top 10.

If you look at the statlines they can be deceiving.

You actually have to look at a players speed, his assortment of pass rushing moves, his aggression, toughness, and football smarts.

If you just look at “oh he racked up this many sacks in college in a big conference” then you might as well flip a coin for whether he’ll bust or not.

by Ougadas on Jan 24, 2011 6:15 AM PST up reply actions

i read an article a while back...

i think it might have been on Football Outsiders site, but i’m not sure.

anyway, it was talking about how sack numbers in college are such an unreliable predictor of NFL success. So they developed a formula where sack numbers were combined with the shuttle time they ran at the combine and their vertical leap (apparently these two drills are the best ones for evaluating explosiveness) and then calculated a “predicted number of sacks through X number of seasons in the NFL”. (i cant remember the number).

the formula wasn’t great at finding good pass rushers, but it was pretty good at weeding out the major busts. so if you see a pass rusher prospect with a bad combine time in a shuttle drill or a poor vertical leap, throw their stat sheet out the window and move on.

We don't need 8 in the box. We have 52 in the box.

by these3words on Jan 25, 2011 2:49 AM PST up reply actions