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I Think We Will Kick Ourselves if We Don't Fight to Get Him


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=nfp-20110122_new_vikings_qb_coach_talks_about_vince_young

Do NOT comment on this post please until you have read the article above.

Vince Young's Titan's QB coach is now working for Leslie Frazier of the Vikings. And he is pushing hard to get Young in Minnesota. Young's relationship with Jeff fisher is what it is, but Young's relationship with his QB coach, and apparently his teammates, was different, and better. The Titaln's ex-QB coach now is the guy that is fighting to get him on the Vikings, obviously with his own job at risk if he's wrong.

We need CBs, pass rushing OLBs, maybe a better safety, and a better RG. No doubt we need to find them in FA (if there is one) and the draft. And we need to at least re-sign Bass, Spikes, and Lawson. But even if we fill all those needs, we will still SUCK. Even with the new coaches in place, we will still SUCK. Because: We will still need a really good, or hopefully great QB. And I am not impressed at all with this year's QB class. No one stands out as sure-fire NFL material. Potential is what it is. We've been there, done that. (Alex Smith still has "potential," right? Let's stop dreaming and get serious.

If Harbaugh thinks he can work with Young in the WCO, I think we should do whatever we need to do to get him. He will change this team around overnight and we will win the division. But we want more than just winning the division, right? If we're really going to be a great team, we need a great QB leading the way.

Read the article above before you comment, please. Then you can tell me why you think it would be a mistake or the right move, to try our hardest to sign him

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.

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Young is a little Bia... I say no!

If we sign a FA QB it would have to be a vet QB with a 1-2 year contract so Harbaugh can develop his own qb while implementing his offense to the rest of the players. Young does not have the maturity to help develop a young QB and is not a pure passer which is what a WCO qb would have to be. Plus this team does not need their starting QB to pout… he was a little punk in Tennessee and I would hate to see him in Red and Gold, ever.

Joe and Steve were under the same system for years... don't expect ___?__ to be super so soon. Alex Smith is no longer expected to do much for this team in the future... on to the next one!!

by bayboy on Jan 22, 2011 6:07 PM PST reply actions  

Maturity

Did Vic have the maturity when he was out there killing dogs? Back then when he was a FA no one in NinersNation wanted to take him. And in fact, he would have failed here.

Because . . .it was our HC that idn’t have the damn maturity. He was a black hole where players got sucked in to become worse than they really were.

But now we have a new day, a great HC and staff . . .and an immature player with the potential to be great might be a PERFECT fit. That’s what his ex-QB coach is thinking there in Minnesota. How will it feel to watch him turn into an elite QB while we’re still screwing around trying to find a QB who won’t Alex Smith us out of games? Taking a chance on Young has very little downside with massive upside. More upside than anyone in this draft, or any other FA QB out there.

by Since79 on Jan 22, 2011 6:43 PM PST up reply actions  

He did by killing dogs and he did by not working at his craft - self admitted by the way

Young though, is horrible. He quit on his coach, threw a tantrum, and is thought to be a suicide risk. NO THANK YOU.

by hudd07 on Jan 23, 2011 2:22 PM PST up reply actions  

His coach quit on him, which I may add, is overrated. From day 1 Young knew his coach didn’t want him.

Don't make me "JEEBUS" you!!!!

by rlott#42 on Jan 24, 2011 5:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Your boss may hate you

but you still hold it together for the teammates that are counting on you. Just my opinion.

I’m a manager, even if my boss doesn’t like me, I still owe it to everyone that’s counting on me to be there for them.

by hudd07 on Jan 24, 2011 5:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Good point

That kind of thing motivates me to do better at my job. If my boss is pissed at me or getting on me about something, I prove them wrong. Sure, it might piss them off more but that makes it even better.

Proud supporter for Kyle Orton as a 49er for 2011

by Haggardninja on Jan 25, 2011 7:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Maybe a better analogy..

Would be the boss loves your work and thinks you have a bright future with the company… but you are under a middle manager who tries to always paint you in the least favorable light, refuses to use your talents where you are strong, and constantly puts you in situations designed to fail.

A smart boss sees this happening, and realizes it’s easier to replace a middle manager than real talent.

Bud Adams isn’t.

by Ougadas on Jan 25, 2011 7:37 AM PST up reply actions  

Still different

It took prison time to help Vick mature. I don’t think a new team will help Young mature. He is going to have to do that on his own. If he keeps it up, he will just be jumping from team to team and blaming everyone else instead of himself.

Proud supporter for Kyle Orton as a 49er for 2011

by Haggardninja on Jan 24, 2011 11:52 AM PST up reply actions  

So, you don't think being cut from your original franchise and a huge pay cut is enough incentive to step up your game?

You should tell this guy:

"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig

by 10forTech on Jan 24, 2011 4:45 PM PST up reply actions  

WOW

You’re comparing VY to Joe??? That is so far from having any value. Blasphamy!!

In Jed We Trust?

by jonesin25 on Jan 24, 2011 9:37 PM PST up reply actions  

I guess you didn't get my point

"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig

by 10forTech on Jan 24, 2011 9:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Neither did I

I’m still wondering where you are going with that because that is just ridiculous.

Proud supporter for Kyle Orton as a 49er for 2011

by Haggardninja on Jan 25, 2011 7:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Let me spell it out for you...

At this point, VY should be extremely motivated to do well. He was just cut from his original franchise and is going to have to take an incredibly large pay cut just to continue to play football. He should have a huge chip on his shoulder (like Joe Montana when he was cut from the 49ers). This is a no-brainer.

I suggest if we were to hire VY, we should do so on a contingency basis. It shouldn’t take very long for the coaching staff to evaluate whether he is willing to do what it takes to stay in the NFL or is just looking for a free meal.

"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig

by 10forTech on Jan 25, 2011 8:51 AM PST up reply actions  

I see what you are saying

but to include a picture of Joe Montana as a Kansas City Chief makes it a different argument. Vince Young should have already been motivated by his struggles in the past after being benched. He should have already had that chip on his shoulder while he was playing for Tennessee but he did nothing about it. Joe Montana was one of the greatest to play the game whereas Vince Young was never more than a decent QB. Joe Montana was cut over another great QB, Vince Young was cut because of his attitude, his coach, and his issues.

Again, I see where you were going with this but to include Joe Montana in the discussion was a bit out there. The Joe Montana situation would have been a great example when discussing the Favre/Rodgers saga. I think a Michael Vick comparison would have been a little bit more realistic for this.

Steelers vs Packers in the Super Bowl? I want a do-over.

by Haggardninja on Jan 25, 2011 9:26 AM PST up reply actions  

I never said it was a perfect analogy

And I never suggested JM = VY. I get what you’re saying though.

I’ll try to be more circumspect in the future when posting 49er Greats.

"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig

by 10forTech on Jan 25, 2011 10:13 AM PST up reply actions  

No problem

I just wanted to explain why jonesin25 and myself were confused by the comment and picture

Steelers vs Packers in the Super Bowl? I want a do-over.

by Haggardninja on Jan 25, 2011 11:51 AM PST up reply actions  

agree with bay boy

1st round- Cam Newton 2nd round-jimmy smith 3rd round- Noel Devine 4th round- Owen Mariecic 4th round-Jonathon Baldwin 5th round-Aaron Williams 6th- Jerrell Powe 7th- Kai forbath

by willis is god 52 on Jan 24, 2011 9:03 AM PST up reply actions  

Dude , there's already an Offical fan post ...!!

I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!

by Edggy on Jan 22, 2011 6:07 PM PST reply actions  

Dude

This is far too imprtant of an article to have it buried on a long fan post where everyone has already given an opinion. I consider this breaking news.

Also, as discussed in other fan posts, a lot of fans like the more focused shorter-lived posts so they can read about a specific thing and chime in and end it rather than it turning into what someone is doing this weekend.

On the other hand, if you’d rather comment about this on the Officlal fan post instead of this one, go right ahead.

by Since79 on Jan 22, 2011 6:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Ya, those other fanposts...

got a lot of run that rivals any Official thread posted.

Drew K should just give up his Draft threads. They go over 1000 comments. This one may get only 30. Much better, ya.

Jim Harbaugh, new Head Coach of the San Francisco 49ers. Now what?

by drummer on Jan 22, 2011 6:51 PM PST up reply actions  

BTW,..

make the link clickable. That might help.

Jim Harbaugh, new Head Coach of the San Francisco 49ers. Now what?

by drummer on Jan 22, 2011 6:52 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

yep

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work." - Thomas Edison

"I may be an idiot, but one thing I'm not sir, is an idiot." - Peter Griffin

by mikeinsp on Jan 22, 2011 7:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Ummmm...

I don’t see what makes that article so important that it matters whether it’s buried in the official QB FanPost discussion. His QB coach likes him. That’s great and all but I don’t think it tells us anything of sufficient significance. Now if Johnson was the 49ers QB coach then I could see value in it. That might be important breaking news. It’s certainly nice that somebody thinks highly of Young, but I just don’t get how this is “breaking news.”

Personally, I always thought Vince Young was overrated, going back to when he came out of Texas. He’s got some skills but the throwing motion and the fact that he struggles to complete over 60% of his passes are red flags for me. He isn’t an awful QB but I think people give him a little too much credit.

by David Fucillo on Jan 22, 2011 7:08 PM PST reply actions  

Significant!!!!

The fact that his QB coach wants to coach him at his new job with the Vikes instead of starting off fresh with someone “smarter,” or “more teachable,” or “harder working,” or with more potential — for the sake of enjoying his new job, as well as being successful at it, I think is extrmely significant.

All the negatives about Young seem to be that he is dumb (like you see in the post below me) or unteachable or doesn’t work hard. And you are now saying he really isn’t that good. Do you really see something his QB coach doesn’t??? . . .If any ONE of those negatives were true, why in the world would his ex-QB coach want him back as his QB at his new job insof tead trying to coach Orten or Kolb or a rookie he gets in the draft?

If any of the negatives were true Vince Young would be the last QB he’d want to have to deal with at his new job, don’t you think?

THAT’s why I consder this breaking news. And I will tell you again, if the Vzkings get him and he turns that team into a Super Bowl contender next year, we’ll all be pretty stinkin’ bummed and look back at our criticisms of him as a person (who we don’t personally know) or as a player (who we are claiming to know more about than his QB coach does) while we’re stuck with a lesser QB,. or a rookie, or Lord Forbid, gagging watching Alex Smith kill our WRs with high throws over the middle in yet another new system.

Vince Young could turn us into a Super Bowl contender with a decent defensive draft and without having to draft a QB just to draft one. I see no savior in this year’s draft. So I think Vince Young is our best option with very little downside if he fails to learn and only has a so so year.

by Since79 on Jan 22, 2011 8:06 PM PST up reply actions  

my opinion

I never said I was smarter than his QB coach or know something he doesn’t know. I’m just saying I never thought he was as good as people said. It’s my opinion based on some of his mechanics and the fact that he continues to have some accuracy issues (if you struggle to hit over 60% of your passes in this QB/WR friendly league that is a red flag in my opinion.

As far as his QB coach’s comments, is it possible that he’s been around him so long that he’s developed a great reputation with him and really wants him to succeed. And maybe his own opinion is colored by his pre-existing relationship with VY?

The comments are certainly of some value in this analysis, but in my opinion they only have value if you can back them up with something else. Can you provide another argument that goes beyond the comments of one of his coaches? I’d be a little more open to the value of his QB coach’s opinion if you could provide something beyond that.

Furthermore, while Johnson is supportive of Vince Young, I don’t think it’s nearly to the level you’re making it out to be.

Basically I’m asking you WHY Vince Young turns us into a Super Bowl contender beyond, “his QB coach thinks he is good.” Give me something to work with.

by David Fucillo on Jan 22, 2011 10:09 PM PST up reply actions  

WHY Vince Young turns us into a Super Bowl contender

Here is what I’m saying:

1. Young was 30-18 as a starter for the Titans, a team with no WRs of note, no TE of note, a medicore O-line at best, and a RB that had one great year. What could he do with Crabtree and Vernon Davis, Gore and Westbrook (hopefully we can re-sign him)? Tell me he couldn’t do better than 30-18 with that group of players and I’ll say, bring it on.

2. Mike Vick had accuracy problems in the system he was in when he was in Atlanta. But once Morningweg worked with him every day for a few months and he was put in a hybrid WCO under Andy Reid, who played better — Vick the washed-up inaccurate bum with no brains, no leadership skills, and a moral-less outlaw? Or the great letter-perfect in every way Kevin Kolb? Sudenly Vick is the MVP of the NFL! Imagine what could happen if Vince Young is tutored by Jim Harbaugh in a QB friendly system. And remember, he can run!!! Seriously run! It gives us an entirely different dimension.

3. Let’s compare our options:
a. Want Aex Smith over Vince Young?
b. Troy Smith (who I still like as a potentially good QB, but vs VY)?
c. David Carr-crash vs anyone?
d. Kolb for a 1st round pick?
e. Orten for a 2nd rounf pick?
f. An unproven NFL back-up QB for a draft pick? Or,
g. A rookie QB in this year’s draft? A rookie in this year’s draft vs starting Vince Young under Harbuagh’s wing during the offseason? Really?

These are all the choices I have heard about. And given those choices I’ll take my chances on Vince Young.

Super Bowl:
Vince Young is the key. Because with him as the starter and Troy Smith as the back up we don’t have to settle for a rookie QB in the draft. We don’t have to waste a pick. So:
Round:
1: CB or OLB pass rusher
2. OLB pass rusher or CB
3. WR
4. RG
4. Safety
5. Scat back

Poof: potential Super Bowl contender

by Since79 on Jan 22, 2011 11:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Young

Young is one of many options. Clearly you’re optimistic about his abilities going forward and don’t buy into the fact that his head coach had problems with him. But you’re throwing out a ton of assumptions as if they’re guaranteed to happen.

Honestly, at this point I think you have the Alex Smith equivalent of beer goggles on right now. Maybe Vince Young will turn it all around, but every situation is different and I don’t think it’s the end of the world if the 49ers don’t bring him over. If they do I’ll support him initially as I would most any new player. But I don’t trust his mechanics entering what will be his sixth season in the NFL.

by David Fucillo on Jan 23, 2011 12:02 AM PST up reply actions  

QB

And even if they acquired Vince Young, I’d be fairly certain they’d still add a QB in the draft.

by David Fucillo on Jan 23, 2011 12:51 AM PST up reply actions  

since79

Don’t just cite his record without citing his stats. You are going to tell me that his INTs to TD ratio is from a good QB?

I think people would take you and your article more seriously if you didn’t point to absolute hearsay when making your point. So his QB coach liked him and wants him on the team? Why don’t you show how good he is based on his stats. Or why don’t you go to the games he has won, vs lost? Look at his record, show me a handful of big games that he has won during crunch time? He has lost more big games than he has won in the NFL. He wins meaningless games and those games they don’t win because he carries the team.

Try pointing to more than just an opinion article before freaking out and thinking it’s breaking news.

by hudd07 on Jan 23, 2011 2:27 PM PST up reply actions  

You mention he didn't have offensive talent around him

I think that Chris Johnson MVP guy is pretty good… and his O-line was pretty good… Oh and his defense was pretty good oh and that coach Fisherwhatshisname he’s good too. Yah VY didn’t do that by himself

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jan 23, 2011 7:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Fisher is horrible for qbs. They never draft to make their offense better.

Don't make me "JEEBUS" you!!!!

by rlott#42 on Jan 24, 2011 5:11 PM PST up reply actions  

You do realize that the QB coach was out of a job too, right?

Maybe the QB coach is/was also part of the problem in Tennessee? Additionally, maybe this coach only wants to bring his former player with him for the sake of not having to teach/coach another player.

Someone said it earlier in the thread, VY is a Bia, and he’s a head-case.

No thanks.

Super Bowl XXIV: 49ers 55 - Broncos 10

by bonbrillio on Jan 23, 2011 9:51 AM PST up reply actions  

Here! Here!

Young’s biggest problem, among quite a few, is between the ears.

by 49erFanSince1950 on Jan 22, 2011 7:37 PM PST reply actions  

Between the ears?

Nice comment.

And 49erFanSince1950, please do tell me how you know this man’s human intelligence when it comes to his job, his football aptitude, or his heart and will to win, are so lacking. When you call someone dumb, which is obvioulsy what you’re doing, you’d better know more about him than just a press report or a Wonderlik score. Alex Smith is a fucking genius according to Wonderlik. But as a football player he’s a moron. He hasn’t got the intangibles to be football smart in ANY system he’s been in. And if he’s so smart he should have been able to pick up a system at least as qucikly as Sam Bradford, or Flacco did in his first year, or Colt McCoy in Cleveland. Don’t you think? But he showed no growth at all from the beginning to the end of any one of those years because as a pure football player, smart Alex sucks. Pure and simple, he has no game on the field where it counts.

Mike Vick was called plenty of names too: lazy, dumb, he will never make it as a QB in this league again, he’s a dog killer. Only one of those statemets is true.

These are kids we’re talking about. They learn, they grow. They stumble and fail. They learn some more. They mature, they come to look themselves in the mirror as we all do in our twenties and ask themselves what life is about? What do they want out of life? How much sacrifice are they willing to make? And they either grow or fall from those moments. But the judgement of this kid, a very good QB with a winning record, and callinfg him stupid wthout really verifying that as true with his coaches and knowing it for sure, is also pretty stupid if you ask me.

If we did get him as our QB, would you still call him stupid? If you saw him up close at the stadium, would you call him stupid to his face? I’d be willing to tell Alex Smith to his face I don’t think he’s a good QB. How about you telling Vince Young to his face that he has “nothing between the ears?”

by Since79 on Jan 22, 2011 8:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh yeah, this is turning out well.

Jim Harbaugh, new Head Coach of the San Francisco 49ers. Now what?

by drummer on Jan 22, 2011 8:27 PM PST up reply actions  

lmao

Jim Harbaugh is our future!
SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS: WORLD CHAMPIONS!
Touchdown Forty Niners!
Giants Baseball: Torture. It hurts so good.

by Effage on Jan 24, 2011 11:29 AM PST up reply actions  

swearing

You know the cursing rules. I won’t delete this because it’s long, but you know better.

by David Fucillo on Jan 22, 2011 10:10 PM PST up reply actions  

ooops, really sorry

The curse word was an appendage to a very nice word, and not meant to be directly cursing the horrible QB mentioned above, whose name I won’t repeat. Nonetheless: My bad.

by Since79 on Jan 22, 2011 11:13 PM PST up reply actions  

I met VY when he played in Texas

Didn’t like him then and like him less now. I’d honestly attribute his winning record to his coaches rather than his skill level. Fischer happens to be one of the more respected coaches in the league and between his opinion and my own personal experience, I want to keep him as far away as possible

by Ikaros on Jan 23, 2011 1:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Mack Brown???
I’d honestly attribute his winning record to his coaches rather than his skill level.

You can’t be serious.

"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig

by 10forTech on Jan 23, 2011 9:01 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

LOL

Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi

by Drew Kerr on Jan 24, 2011 5:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Rec'd for truth

Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi

by Drew Kerr on Jan 24, 2011 5:17 PM PST up reply actions  

He said "coaches"

Mack Brown was one of his coaches at one point. In anycase, I thought it was hilarious.

Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi

by Drew Kerr on Jan 24, 2011 9:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks Drew

I think a lot of this Vince Young hate is coming from bad memories.

As much as I hate to admit it, VY literally carried the Longhorns to victory that day, by pure athleticism and skill.

"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig

by 10forTech on Jan 24, 2011 10:33 PM PST up reply actions  

There is no doubt about that

And you are right, most of my hate for VY stems from him being a Longhorn, lol.

In Jed We Trust?

by jonesin25 on Jan 24, 2011 11:37 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah, you wouldnt call him dumb to his face!

that’s why he’s a good QB!

Is it draft day yet?

by See Jay on Jan 23, 2011 8:22 AM PST up reply actions  

why

are you constantly comparing Mike Vick to VY?

You are jumping to a lot of conclusions based on the relative/recent success of one automatically turning into success for the other.

They are separate people, with separate skills in separate situations.

Super Bowl XXIV: 49ers 55 - Broncos 10

by bonbrillio on Jan 23, 2011 9:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Agreed

Vick and VY are two different players. I remember quite a few years back when Steve (Young) worked with him(Vick) a bit and I hoped it would turn something on in his brain. Vince scares me, yes scares me. I would not tell Young I didn’t think he has anything between his head or whatever was stated by others more due to the fact that he seems to have issues and wouldn’t brush it off and just think “I’ll show you on the field”. As a HUGE dog lover I would have some problems ethically and emotionally with Vick. But with choosing VY as our starter I’d worry about a lot more things. Some team/coach I hope gets hold of VY and helps him on a lot of levels. But I don’t see VY as a player for the 49ers, for a lot of reasons both on VY’s side and the 49ers side.

by ChesapeakeBay9er on Jan 23, 2011 10:07 AM PST up reply actions  

+1

It's been fun Coach...just not real fun. Good luck to you.

by riderless on Jan 24, 2011 6:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Actually

Vick is self admittedly lazy before he went in. He will tell you he didn’t study, and didn’t push himself. He has changed it since he has been out, but he had an awakening. Young needs one too, but we don’t know if he will get one or not.

by hudd07 on Jan 23, 2011 2:28 PM PST up reply actions  

are you two related?

Young’$ biggest problem was his head coach

Don't make me "JEEBUS" you!!!!

by rlott#42 on Jan 23, 2011 8:09 AM PST up reply actions  

If that's the case...

You wait for the offseason and then force a trade, not do your best Ryan Leaf impression like Young did. I’m definitely not sold on him. Carson Palmer wants out in Cincinnati, too, but he’s handled it much more professionally so far. I’d rather take the risk on him.

by asleepinSF on Jan 23, 2011 3:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Ryan Leaf impression?

Utter fail in the comparison game.

Don't make me "JEEBUS" you!!!!

by rlott#42 on Jan 24, 2011 5:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Fighting at strip clubs, dissing his coach in the locker room in front of the whole team, etc...

Yeah, definitely a stand up, class act dude. I can see the Ryan Leaf comparison… Young has melted down on more than one occasion.

If he could pull his head out of his hind parts, he has the instinct and ability to be a damn good quarterback… but his track record speaks for itself in terms of the ultimate melt downs.

Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi

by Drew Kerr on Jan 24, 2011 5:21 PM PST up reply actions  

He is getting by on just talent alone right now

When he truly puts in the effort he could be good. Vick was always good, but admitted that he didn’t put in the time neccesary. I think Young is in those same shoes. Vick started working harder, and was in the MVP discussions. I think Young has the talent, but does he have the heart and mental make up to better himself.

by hudd07 on Jan 24, 2011 5:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Gave the link a shot...

I don’t see any revelations as far a Young is concerned. It’s not an in depth article that illustrates where Young is at, where he could go, and project any sort of arc as far as his career.

Statistically, and I’m just going by the usual stats, not the DVOA or such, Young is not very good in that department. He looks worse than Alex Smith. I agree with Fooch regarding his mechanics, and I also agree he may have a problem with maturity, as well as handling adversity. I dare not even try to compare him to Vick. That’s a reach at this point.

Really, there isn’t much here to go with outside of what your opinion of Young is, and that can be debated to no end seeing your responses. I’ll side with the others here.

Jim Harbaugh, new Head Coach of the San Francisco 49ers. Now what?

by drummer on Jan 22, 2011 11:53 PM PST reply actions  

Cool

Good thoughts.

I don’t have a clear opinion about him, drummer. I’m just saying, what if? And if he’s not it, how do you personally answer this puzzle?

 — Let’s compare our options:
a. Want Aex Smith over Vince Young?
b. Troy Smith (who I still like as a potentially good QB, but vs VY)?
c. David Carr-crash vs anyone?
d. Kolb for a 1st round pick?
e. Orten for a 2nd rounf pick?
f. An unproven NFL back-up QB for a draft pick? Or,
g. A rookie QB in this year’s draft? A rookie in this year’s draft vs starting Vince Young under Harbuagh’s wing during the offseason? Really?

by Since79 on Jan 23, 2011 12:43 AM PST up reply actions  

options...

Haven’t researched it a ton but I’d go for Josh Johnson via trade, draft a QB, and probably sign an undrafted free agent as well. If we’re talking about Harbaugh’s developing skills, why not go with the guy he worked with at the University of San Diego?

by David Fucillo on Jan 23, 2011 12:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Josh Johnson is meh

If I am taking a FA this year to get behind center, I am taking a sure thing. I’m going with McNabb. He might be heading over the hill now, but that is exactly why I want him. He will give this team some wins, and he can still carry a team in crunch time. Also there will be no need to give him a long term commitment. Bring him in for a couple years to help mentor a young QB, when the new guy is ready, then it’s time for McNabb to hang it up. Considering there is not many good options out there, imo,that is the best option.

In Jed We Trust?

by jonesin25 on Jan 24, 2011 9:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Well..

One thing I key in in the WCO is footwork, the drop backs, and the mechanics from the waist down. Now I know this is one game, but tell me what you see with this QB, his mechanics, etc., and the throws he makes within the offense:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C8F0cWvAfo

To me, the key for Harbaugh and the rest of the offense as a whole is to find a QB who can run this offense. Either it’s Kolb, Flynn, Orton, or whoever. Young’s mechanics, after looking at a few games on YouTube, has a lot to fix. He isn’t that bad, but it would take a bit more than it would say Flynn.

Just go back and look at Steve Young in the WCO, and of course Montana. Look at earlier Favre in GB. To me, that’s what a WCO QB should look like as far as mechanics.

Jim Harbaugh, new Head Coach of the San Francisco 49ers. Now what?

by drummer on Jan 23, 2011 1:06 AM PST up reply actions  

Thanks for the link

That was really cool to watch. Thanks! Not sure Flynn’s got the touch on his deep passes that I’d hope to see, but yes, his footwork was very fluid.

One good thing about getting Flynn would be that he’d know every play in the GB playbook. We could use some of those!
 
However, I really think getting either Flynn or Josh Johnson is very remote:
a. You work really hard to find and teach a good back-up QB. They know their respective systems. Why trade them away for a pick and hve to look for a good back-up and re-tool at such a difficult and important position. If I were their GM I wouldn’t do that to my HC unless someone started dropping some very tempting offers on the table, and I’m not talking about a 3rd or 4th rounder, who could easily turn out to be a bust. No way.

by Since79 on Jan 23, 2011 1:36 AM PST up reply actions  

The deep passes can be worked on..

with Flynn, and one of the reasons why is his good fundamentals. It’s just drilling him with the first team offense week in week out. I think he or Johnson could be had with a savvy trade. Flynn is a 7th round pick IIRC. Trade a backup QB for a pick this year and another next year, swing deals like NE does, and anything can happen. But besides that, that type of QB is what I would look for, the one who has some command of the system combined with solid fundamentals that help him work within it.

Who knows what would have happened if the 49ers drafted Plummer instead of Druckenmiller. Plummer to me had the tools for the WCO. He did OK years later with Shanahan after suffering in AZ.

Druck was the prototypical big strong armed QB, who was also dumb as rocks. I gave up following players until draft day because of that draft.

Jim Harbaugh, new Head Coach of the San Francisco 49ers. Now what?

by drummer on Jan 23, 2011 1:54 AM PST up reply actions  

Ryan Mallett = Jim Druckenmiller

In fact…

Druckenmiller > Mallett

Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi

by Drew Kerr on Jan 24, 2011 5:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Don't need a under medicated Qb , whom's H.C. (17yr's ) want's nothing to do with him ...

… if Fisher is willing to give up his job by saying it either him of me , well Enough said about this transatory head case …!!

I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!

by Edggy on Jan 23, 2011 6:07 AM PST reply actions  

I rather have alex smith then vince young

why would niners risk getting nut case for the qbotf?

vy will be lucky if he is starter again on any team other then in the cfl or ufl.

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Jan 23, 2011 6:14 AM PST reply actions  

I agree, Vince Young should be on our radar...

Everyone was giving VY his props when he first got in, and ESPECIALLY last year when he helped the Titans win their last 8 games of the season after Collins got benched. I think that VY just had an issue with Jeff Fisher, and to be honest, I don’t blame him. Everyone wants to sing Fishers praises because he’s been the Titans coach since Jesus walked the earth, but I can absolutely believe that Fisher has SOMETHING wrong with his coaching. In 17 years he’s only made it to the post season THREE TIMES! Don’t believe me? Look it up. Someone already mentioned it earlier, but I agree that if Harbaugh sees enough in VY to pick him up I’d welcome him to the Empire with open arms.

by Terrell 'Turtle' Hannah on Jan 23, 2011 7:39 AM PST reply actions  

+1

My point exactly. If JH doesn’t want him then that’s all I would need to know. But I’m just saying, looking at all the options on the board, he’s the one guy who has the obvious potential to take us to the Super Bowl one year in the near future. Everyone else is either not good enough, washed up, or untested and a total unknown.

by Since79 on Jan 23, 2011 9:39 AM PST up reply actions  

He will be in Minnesota, Oakland, or Cleveland... that's what I think.

Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi

by Drew Kerr on Jan 23, 2011 12:05 PM PST reply actions  

Yes

Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi

by Drew Kerr on Jan 24, 2011 4:39 PM PST up reply actions  

If we sign Vince Young

I may be the one kicking somebody.

"Bears are crazy, Willie. They'll bite your head off if you're wearing steak on it."

by Blank x2 on Jan 23, 2011 12:36 PM PST reply actions  

VY isnt breaking news, hes old news

since79 I thinking your reaching with this.the fact that VY’s coach wants him in Minnesota is far from BREAKING news… of course the qb coach is going to want to bring him to Minn. VY is his project, someone he’s familiar with so it would offer him some continuity on a new team. it doesn’t prove that any of the problems he had with the titans are false, your making assumptions there. I dont think VY is the answer to our QB problem, we need someone like josh johnson or kolb. A QB who has yet to be a full-on starter. Vy had his chance and he squandered it for whatever reason. let the vikes have em

by tdniner on Jan 23, 2011 1:04 PM PST reply actions  

tdniner

I think you’re being naive. If you got a brand new job — a fesh start, and you were going to work with just three guys all year, why in the world would you go out on a limb to sugest binging in from the outside a head case who doesn’t work hard, is dumb, a screw up, and emotionally unstable? Why? Because you’re familiar with him and you worked with him in the past? Man, that’s a reason to NOT want to work with him. Tell your boss to stay away from the guy no matter what his resume looks like.

But sticking your neck out at a new job and saying get me this guy. He’s a winner. He’s going to make me and you look good and I’m going to enjoy my work with him being under my tutelage, when in fact, he’s a head case and dumb and has bad technique regardless of the years you spent teaching him good technique, I’m sorry, that’s just not human nature. That makes no sense whatsoever.

by Since79 on Jan 23, 2011 10:21 PM PST up reply actions  

So all Jamarcus Russell needs is a fresh start.

Jim Harbaugh, new Head Coach of the San Francisco 49ers. Now what?

by drummer on Jan 23, 2011 10:53 PM PST up reply actions  

In prison?

making license plates?

Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi

by Drew Kerr on Jan 24, 2011 5:26 PM PST up reply actions  

if im naive...your delusional

and im not trying to insult you here, im just saying that the number of assumptions your making is ridiculous. VY does have an upside, hes mobile, hes big etc etc. but you cant tell me that with all the character issues we’ve heard about him, most recently him tossing his pads into the stands, that they are all false BECAUSE….wait for it….because his QB coach wants him in Minn. I dont know this man personally, but the media reports about him cannot all be false, and even if, giving you the benefit of the doubt they are exaggerated, they still make the point that this guy does have some kind character issues. simple. His QB coach wants him in Minn. because VY is still a great athlete, and he can be dangerous at the QB pos. but mannn if you want to overlook his past troubles in Tennessee simply because of your take on “human nature” and his QB coach ’s desire to bring him with him to his new job….your kidding yourself. VY=good QB but not our future. too many variables

by tdniner on Jan 24, 2011 7:29 PM PST up reply actions  

This pretty much proves my point

Best upside of anyone out there right now. If Harbaugh can get to him, we all win. If he can’t he will be off the team before the pre-season.

If you agree with me, Effage, tell this guy No.

by Since79 on Jan 24, 2011 10:10 PM PST up reply actions  

No.

Jim Harbaugh is our future!
SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS: WORLD CHAMPIONS!
Touchdown Forty Niners!
Giants Baseball: Torture. It hurts so good.

by Effage on Jan 24, 2011 11:30 AM PST reply actions  

Without commenting on Young's overall abilities as a QB -

- I want to point out one thing.

Harbaugh has been clear that he wants a quarterback with an intellectual approach to the game. As much as you might like Young, he’s an instinctive QB, not an intellectual one.

It doesn’t seem that he’s what Harbaugh wants in a QB. Now, there’s more than one way to be a good QB in this league (nobody would call Roethlessburger an intellectual QB, either) but it seems to me that we should look for a QB who fits the mold Harbaugh is looking for, and not just grab the next “good” QB available, even if you happen to think Young is a good QB.

by Ronaldinho on Jan 24, 2011 2:29 PM PST reply actions  

Alex Smith = smart somebish =/= Great QB

Wonderlic Ain’t Worth a Lick.

"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig

by 10forTech on Jan 24, 2011 4:56 PM PST up reply actions  

The world may never know...

Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi

by Drew Kerr on Jan 24, 2011 5:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Sure.

Being smart doesn’t make you a good QB. But that’s the kind of QB Harbaugh wants to work with.

I mean, sure, I bet Walsh would have been successful with anyone, but the QBs he had the most success with – Montana, Young, DeBerg – weren’t gunslinger types. Marino was a great QB, but almost certainly wouldn’t have been as good a fit for Walsh as Montana was – just like Montana wouldn’t have been as successful with a coach who had a different set of priorities.

I’m explicitly not saying “smart QB = good QB.”

by Ronaldinho on Jan 25, 2011 10:39 AM PST up reply actions  

That's true.

Point well taken. And I’d rather root for a good guy and an intellectually smart guy like a Montana or Steve Young or Troy Smith.

Honestly, that’s why I didn’t want to get Vick. I’ll admit that, and that was the reason. I like to root for good guys.

But . . . with vince Young we could win right now and groom a QBOTF. Rather than being forced to draft a kid that’s not it and pushing him into the line up too soon.

Vince Young could be the best 1-2 year stop gap QB out there. That’s all I’m saying.

by Since79 on Jan 24, 2011 10:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Good point

I agree. And we might be able to land him for next to nothing (as QB’s go) and without using a draft pick.

"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig

by 10forTech on Jan 24, 2011 10:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Vy is not going to be the best veteran to teach the younger guys, sorry.

I don;t want my younger guys to model a single thing after that guy… not to mention he’d probably be a jerk about passing on info to secure his job.

Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi

by Drew Kerr on Jan 25, 2011 12:38 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, that's a poor choice...

Young needs a Vet to groom him.

Bite my shiny metal sig

by drummer on Jan 25, 2011 12:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Lol, punny

Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi

by Drew Kerr on Jan 25, 2011 1:30 AM PST up reply actions  

Yea what in VY's character makes him a guy worth acquiring?

Won’t deny he has speed and all but there are other QBs

"We are not a charity, we cannot GIVE them the game." -Mike Singletary

by eacuna05 on Jan 25, 2011 11:03 AM PST up reply actions  

No to Vince....

Look, I know I write a lot of comments about QB’s on this site. And some of you don’t like what I haev to say. That’s fine, however, I think I may hold a little insite as to why I say a vahement “No” to Vince. top of the list is I live in TN and have watched VY over the years since he left Texas…so I know the deal.
1)“0” work ethic:Since he left Texas, Vince had had a couple of O-Coordinators to work with in TN and he has progressed some. Unlike Alex, his co-ordinators have tryed to get some of the kinks out of Young’s playing skills. Some hae shown improvement. However, these may surface for a play or 2. Then he reverts to old Vince and screws it up. In the same breath, Vince claims to work harsd in the offseason. But, he then invariably soften his schedule, thus putting himself out of optimum shape. The Niners don’t need this headache.
2)“Diva” factor: Let’s face it. Once he got here, like most really good players from college, the residents here gave him “EVERYTHING”! Including rope to hang himself with. Because of this, Vince has a “Diva” mentallity. Thinking whatever organization he’s with has to kiss ass and cowtow to his every whim. If he then doesn’t get his way, he’ll go on tears of self destruction that take away valuable tiem and energy from the rest of the team. The Niners are in the state of flux after Alex that only the strongest will be (or should be) crowned the starter. Not some guy who has a National title to his credit and thinks that’s a Visa Black card that allows him to walk on the field and win the starting job.
3)Ball delivery: Vince is a huge guy. Standing tall in the pocket, and has the ability to look over the defense once the ball is snapped and the line starts to move. Unfortunately, his throwing motion is a very low, side-arm throw. Almost like a high slider. Therein lies the problem. His release point is so low, many of his balls either sail high due to overadjustment, or get batted at the line os scrimmage, thereby changing the trajectory or falling harmlessly to the field. because he can’t or won’t change his throwing style, this hasn’t been fixxed after almost 4 yrs in the league, and will only get worse as the yrs go by. No thanks.The Niners don’t need another project signal caller with mechanics issues.
4) Inability to keep chains moving via throwing: I know what many of you are saying….“but, Micheal Vick moves the chains running.” To an extent, you’re right. However, the thing that caught so many teams off guard this season was his accuracy throwing from the pocket. an attribute that he show often in ATL. Vince’s best pass catcher the last few seasons has been Bo Scaife, the TE that went to Texas with Vince. Yet, he has also had a few receivers at his disposal that he consistantly overthrows or can’t find. Thus leading to him running way too often. And more than that….into trouble. Many fans here in TN have wondered why Chris Johnson and VY keep running headlong into 8-9 man fronts? The opposition figured that if you cover Scaife and force Vince to throw…..you have the game in the bag. They unfortunately were right.

Don’t get me wrong. As a person, I think Vince is a really cool guy. His off the field antics not withstanding. I also am not so stupid as to see Vince has a ton of untapped potential. However, I think at this point, we owe it to the organization, the fans as well as Jim Harbaugh not to burdon ourselves any longer with reclaimation QB’s. At this point, the NFC West is still very winnable, and the team nucleus is young and more tralented then it’s been in a long while. In our win now mentallity, we aren’t that far from being on the cusp of getting back to the playoffs. No sense in taking 5 steps further backward acquiring a guy who still has so many unanswered and questionable attributes.

K.C.Edwards -AKA- "THE" DarkkStarr

by DarkkStarr1 on Jan 25, 2011 12:28 PM PST reply actions  

This wouldn't be a reclaimation QB move

It would be a stop gap measure until we get our drafted QB up to speed. We could get him cheap and if he doesn’t work out cut him with very little loss.

"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig

by 10forTech on Jan 25, 2011 12:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Hate to disagree......

It is a reclaimation. Vince’s stock ahs dropped tremendously here in “Music City.” And this is a town that’s ready to crown you 4-life if you play well. (See: Peyton Manning.) Yet, with all the talent he has, Vince’s off the field issues, and his inability to win games he should, has gotten folks to the point they no longer have anything to do with him. Not saying they’re right, and he’s wrong. But, vince just hasn’t won recently and the voice of the people has spoken. If you reaaly want a stop gap….let’s get McNabb who has more experience, better accuracy, and would come much cheaper in a 2-3 yr contract.

K.C.Edwards -AKA- "THE" DarkkStarr

by DarkkStarr1 on Jan 25, 2011 1:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Amazing

All these negatives about his throwing motion and inability to get the chains moving, yet the guy went 30-18 on a bad team with WRs that were certainly no better than ours.

I’ll take that kind of bad. That kind of bad would have had us in the playoffs last year and maybe the year before that as well.

by Since79 on Jan 25, 2011 1:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorry....

Good defensive play when they had it. And Chris Johnson averaging 100 yds a game helps.

K.C.Edwards -AKA- "THE" DarkkStarr

by DarkkStarr1 on Jan 25, 2011 1:33 PM PST up reply actions  

That's funny...

His real YPA is 5th in the league, behind only Brady, Rivers, Roethlisberger, and Rodgers.

His expected points added per play was 10th in the league…. behind those same guys and additions of guys like Manning and Brees.

He completed 60 percent of his passes with a higher than 3 to 1 TD to Int ratio and a 98.6 passer rating which was 5th in the NFL. And he didn’t dink and dunk his way to that completion percentage like ole Alex Smith. He threw 32 % of his passes deeper than 15 yards.

I’m not sold on him as our future WCO QB, but the statistics say not only is he a starter, he was a top 10 starter this year.

Must have been the defense.

by Ougadas on Jan 26, 2011 8:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Kina cherry picking your stats there

when he only played in 9 games this season and only threw 156 passes. Only once he passes for more than 200 yards and in that game he only completed 47% of hus passes. He had only 10 TD and 3 INT.

Of the 5 games that Vince Young had a QB rating of over 100, only once he had to throw the ball more than 17 times. One game he threw the ball 5 times. The Titans were 3-2 over that time in those 3 wins the Johnson ran for over 110 yards each time with 5 TD’s and the defense gave up less than 13 points each of those games. In the 2 losses they gave up 30+ and Johnson ran for only 59 yards with the other game being on par with the wins.

So yeah, I’d say the Titans went as far as Johnson and the defense took them and not because of Vince Young.

by downsos on Jan 26, 2011 1:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Still waiting for you to explain...

How throwing only 156 passes in a short season could inflate his EPA per play or real YPA.

The whole point of per play or per attempt stats is that the results aren’t tied to the aggregates.

You can make a point when the sample size is low, but 156 passes is more than enough.

Aggregates are for guys playing fantasy football and have very little correlation to success. I’ll take the guy that throws 10 TD’s in 150 attempts (1 td every 15 passes ) over the guy who throws 25 TD’s in 500 attempts (1 in 20), and just give him more attempts.

The whole point of this conversation is the the guy calling the plays was doing everything he could to get rid of VY by giving him limited opportunities to succeed, and calling an extremely high ratio of deep passes to total attempts.

That’s a good way to drop a QB’s completion percentage and increase his interception rate.

The one constant in the NFL… if you have a QB with high EPA/P and RYPA, you are winning games…. except when you won’t let him throw the ball.

by Ougadas on Jan 26, 2011 2:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Total stats for Young

at #36 in passing behind Gradkowski according to PFR. You’d really have to sell that YPA hard to tell me Young is a Top Ten passer.

Bite my shiny metal sig

by drummer on Jan 26, 2011 3:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Still waiting for you to explain… How throwing only 156 passes in a short season could inflate his EPA per play or real YPA.

Wasn’t saying that, just that finding one stat that he exelled at and making him out to be some great QB while neglecting the other stats that say other wise is cherry picking.

You can make a point when the sample size is low, but 156 passes is more than enough.

Not really, when it’s 1/3 of the average passing attempts in the NFL.

Aggregates are for guys playing fantasy football and have very little correlation to success. I’ll take the guy that throws 10 TD’s in 150 attempts (1 td every 15 passes ) over the guy who throws 25 TD’s in 500 attempts (1 in 20), and just give him more attempts.

It would be foolish to expect these stats to contiue with more passing attempts. There are to many variables to expect that X multipled by Y will still equal Z.

The whole point of this conversation is the the guy calling the plays was doing everything he could to get rid of VY by giving him limited opportunities to succeed, and calling an extremely high ratio of deep passes to total attempts.

I don’t see why a HC would intentionally put his QB in a position to lose when it could had easily backfire and cost him his job. Fisher felt his team would be better the less that Young passed the ball and with Kerry Collins in. He was right about this as the more Young had to pass and the less effective Chris Johnson was the more the Titans ended up losing while the less Vince Young had to pass the better the team did.

by downsos on Jan 27, 2011 4:51 AM PST up reply actions  

QB/DB

We need to make an attempt to get Asomugha to help anchor our defense. The deep pass killed us all year. Also try for Kevin Kolb, but no matter who is behind center it’s still another offense that needs to be learned. Alex has more experience with 6 or 7 I’ve lost count different offenses maybe he is all we have as an option next year. Unless Palmer pulls a Farve and retires then plays?

by ruserious on Jan 25, 2011 3:19 PM PST reply actions  

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