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1st round QBs in recent history (2 of 29)

And we're back! After more than 2 months I'm continuing my mini segment on 1st round Quarterbacks. Number One thing I just want to get out of the way right now is this:

I apologize for stopping the segment and then not doing anything for so long. If anyone is interested/demands an explanation for the long time in between posts I can explain myself in the comments section.

So, in case you have forgotten what I was supposed to be doing or if you are just new to the site here is the link to the very first post where I explain what this segment is about. If you're too lazy/important/busy/Tre9er to follow the link here is a recap:

I want to know what classifies a guy as a 1st round quarterback. So I'm going back in time (oooh) in recent history (2000-2009) and looking at the quarterbacks that were picked in the first round during that time span.

The guy we will be looking at today is possibly the most intriguing quarterback prospect in the history of the NFL Draft. This guy should create a lot of interesting discussion. I'm talking about Michael Vick

Star-divide

Now, before I even get into the basic background information I want to make something perfectly clear: We are NOT here to discuss Michael Vick's legal issues and whether or not he deserved a second chance. That is irrelevant to this discussion. If you want to talk about that, then go make your own fanpost.

Michael Vick played for the Virginia Tech Hokies from 1999-2000 (he was redshirted in 1998). In his first year starting as a redshirt freshman he led his team to an 11-0 record and an appearance in the Sugar bowl. That same year he also finished 3rd in the Heisman Trophy race, which was the closest a freshman had ever come. Virginia Tech's record with Michael Vick starting stands at 21-0 (thanks to 10fortech for verifying).

As we all know, Michael Vick may have been the most athletically gifted player to ever play quarterback at the college level. But I'm sure many of you have wondered "Just how fast was he?" Well, allow your buddy chikmagnet to deliver...Unofficially Michael Vick once ran a 4.25 in the 40 yard dash before his redshirt sophmore year at Virginia Tech. (He posted a "slower" time of 4.38 in a rookie mini-camp after he was drafted). Another thing I want to put out there: Tim Tebow can't jump higher than Michael Vick. Vick had his vertical leap measured at 40 1/2 inches at a spring practice in his first year at Virginia Tech.

So now lets get into the numbers. A quick look at Michael Vick's college statistics will leave many of you baffled. But not because they're amazing, instead it will be because of how "meh" they look. In his first year he only attempted 153 passes! (he ran 110 times). His second and final year was even more pedestrian as he had only 8 touchdowns to his 6 interceptions. But it gets worse: his completion percentage was never above 60%in either of his two years at Virginia Tech.

At this point I have to take a moment and be fair to Michael. He was hurt several times throughout his collegiate career so that most definitely contributed to his poor numbers. Not only that, Virgina Tech suffered mightily whenever Michael was inactive.

So how in the world does a 6ft tall, 210 lb, redshirt freshman with attitude concerns who is coming off an 8TD/6INT year go No.1 overall???

Potential.

Even though Michael Vick was undersized, inexperienced, and didn't play at such a high level, many still saw him as the man who was going to revolutionize the QB position in the NFL because of his unbelievable physical tools. This was a guy that could throw a football as hard and far as John Elway, elude defenders like Bary Sanders, and run as fast as Randy Moss in open space.

As we all know, the Falcons traded up to the No.1 spot to select Michael Vick and gave him a huge contract with something like $15 Million in guarantees.

Before we move onto the NFL part of the segment let me give you some quotes/mock drafts from 2000:

Here is a mock put together before the San Deigo/Atlanta trade that still has Michael Vick going No.1 overall. The author calls him "A faster version of Steve McNair"

Here is Mel Kipper's mock. He doesn't really give us any insight though. He just says Vick has a lot of upside.

Here is a mock after the San Diego/Atlanta trade. The author talks about Vick's contract demands and why he believes that's why San Diego traded the pick away.

So how did Michael Vick do in the NFL?

Luckily, he had Dan Reeves coaching him so his elite physical skills were used quite well. He never was much of a passer in Atlanta but he did manage to take his Falcons to the NFC Championship and ran for over 1,000 yards in a single season.

We will ignore his tenure with the Eagles for now because they are not the team that drafted him.

So what do you guys say? Did he give the Falcons good return on their investment? I want to say that he did. He brought success to the franchise and while his tenure there was cut short by legal issues he still gave Atlanta 6 good years.

To close out the post we'll take a look at a video of Michael Vick while he was playing for Virginia Tech (see if you can spot why I chose this video....)

 

and his career stats while at Virginia Tech:

Stats Overview Rushing
YEAR ATT YDS AVG TD YPG
1999 108 585 5.4 8 58.5
2000 104 617 5.9 8 56.1

 

Stats Overview Passing
YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA
TD INT YPG RAT
1999
90 152 1840 59.2
12.1
12
5 184.0 180.4
2000 87 161 1234
54.0 7.7
8
6
112.2 127.4











Poll
Would you say Michael Vick was worth a 1st round pick?
Yes
189 votes
No
55 votes

244 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.

Comment 46 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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Comments

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beeen waiting for this fooooooooorrrrrrrrreeeever!

Niners, Lakers and the Warriors... when Lakers have the night off.

by afrikabamboodle on Jan 6, 2011 2:49 PM PST reply actions  

I'm so sorry

Hopefully I can complete the entire series soon.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Jan 6, 2011 3:01 PM PST up reply actions  

haha it's all good.

Niners, Lakers and the Warriors... when Lakers have the night off.

by afrikabamboodle on Jan 6, 2011 3:04 PM PST up reply actions  

man i have really underestimated his speed.

Whenever a QB comes out and has a run first pass second mentality at the QB position people always seem to compare him to Michael Vick. I’ve been guilty of doing it but when you really compare the two, no one comes close to Vick. the Vince Youngs and Cam Newtons are all dangerous on their feet but are not even close to being the athlete that Vick is. Falcons can’t complain because Matt Ryan is a pretty solid QB for them, but Vick did give them some good years. I only watched the Falcons back then just to watch Vick. Don’t know what I’m looking for in the video but is it the Gaylords Hotels Music City Bowl in the espn thingy at the bottom? What a funny bowl name.

Niners, Lakers and the Warriors... when Lakers have the night off.

by afrikabamboodle on Jan 6, 2011 3:03 PM PST reply actions  

It is a funny bowl name

But that’s not what you’re looking for.

Don’t look so hard and you’ll see it.

As for Vick’s speed: Yeah, no one even compares. The man is probably just a tad slower than Chris Johnson!

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Jan 6, 2011 3:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Video

You chose it cuz everytime he went to his “left” good things happened. When he goes right, he gets crushed or throws an interception.

JG

by Gibbster49 on Jan 6, 2011 3:07 PM PST reply actions  

Not quite

But it’s still a good observation.
Don’t think so hard and you’ll see what I’m talking about.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Jan 6, 2011 3:10 PM PST up reply actions  

I want to discuss Michael Vick's legal issues and whether or not he deserved a second chance

;-)

"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig

by 10forTech on Jan 6, 2011 3:31 PM PST reply actions  

Why you...

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Jan 6, 2011 4:09 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

hehe

"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig

by 10forTech on Jan 6, 2011 6:23 PM PST up reply actions  

21-0
Virginia Tech’s record with Michael Vick starting appears to be 20-1 (although I can’t seem to verify it).

During Vick’s red-shirt freshmen year, he sat out a game at UAB due to injuring his ankle against James Madison here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znubTspM440
So, in 1999, Virginia Tech won 10 games with Vick as starting QB.

His sophomore year (2000) Vick missed 2 games against Miami and UCF because of an injury sustained against Pittsburgh. That makes 11 wins for VT with Vick as starting QB.
source

21-0

"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig

by 10forTech on Jan 6, 2011 4:17 PM PST reply actions  

Thanks for the info

I’ll go back and correct it in a bit.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Jan 6, 2011 6:51 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Definitely worth a first rounder

even before his reborn career with the Iggles

by smileyman on Jan 6, 2011 5:01 PM PST reply actions  

I know we're not supposed to discuss his Legal issues

But do you think the 49er fanbase would have accepted him in the bay area before he salvaged his career in PHI?

Also, with Mike Singletary and Jimmy Raye at the helm, I doubt Vick would have been nearly as good, thus further annoying the fanbase.

by brundylop on Jan 8, 2011 6:01 AM PST up reply actions  

I think they would've been skeptical

until he started winning, then they would’ve fallen in love with him.

More to the point I don’t think his career is reborn with Singeltary, et al running the show. He needed a coach who’s good with QBs

by smileyman on Jan 8, 2011 3:22 PM PST up reply actions  

You chose this video

Because they are playing at the old Veterans Stadium in Philadelphia.

by Ougadas on Jan 6, 2011 5:25 PM PST reply actions  

This

Rays in '08.... Desmond Jennings - the breakout continues.....

by youALREADYknow on Jan 6, 2011 5:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Winner!

You’ll have your prize in a while. (I’m on my phone so I can’t right now)

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Jan 6, 2011 6:53 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Prize

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Jan 7, 2011 2:46 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL

I was like: Because it shows both the good and back about Vick.

by brundylop on Jan 8, 2011 6:02 AM PST up reply actions  

i'm surprised how low his rushing yardage was.

considering it was Michael Vick against college defenders.

P.S. i know i’m not first but i did notice the Eagles logo on the field. runner-up prize?

We don't need 8 in the box. We have 52 in the box.

by these3words on Jan 7, 2011 2:11 AM PST reply actions  

i was surprised he wasn't around 900

But remember that he did miss some games and the offense VT used to run doesn’t seem like it compared to the option that is run today.

He did score a lot of TDs though.

No runner up prize but the 1st prize will be made public (comment) so you can check it out if you want.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Jan 7, 2011 10:43 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Worth a 1st

All the excitement and fun around his playing years in Atlanta + a playoff game or two while the rest of the team wasn’t amazing, def worth the pick. He had some unforgettable moments as a Falcon. If I were a fan the only thing I’d feel bad about is watching what Morningweg did for him in the offseason and wondering why our coaches didn’t do the same. That would be my only misgiving or doubt as a fan. Not about Vick but the QB coaching.

by Since79 on Jan 7, 2011 8:30 AM PST reply actions  

i wouldn't complain too much about coaching

The fact that they actually managed to convert him from an option QB to an NFL QB is a pretty big accomplishment.
Dan Reeves did a good job w/ him. Guess Reid/Morninweg is better.
Or maybe Vick just tried harder w/ the Eagles.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Jan 7, 2011 10:46 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

I think he tried harder

More mature and plenty of time to focus on the little things in prison.

In Jed We Trust?

by jonesin25 on Jan 10, 2011 10:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Lots of people voting No

Counting 21 right now.
Would like to know what your reasons are?

Give us your point of view.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Jan 7, 2011 10:48 AM PST via mobile reply actions  

He Killed Dogs and was involved in felony Racketeering

just to name a couple.

Now granted I have forgiven him and wish he the best in life since he served his time (debt to society) and deserves another chance.

And…. just because he is having a stellar year in Philly, do you not remember his time on the Falcons, granted it was caliber at times yet also was mofo’in Ken Dorsey at other times.

How much money and pride did the Falcon’s owner lose?

NFL Players are suppose to be professionals, I don’t know what your career is all about, but in mine I have a certain conduct I must live by (granted its not ultra-conservative or anything, but still). I am not saying players necessarily need to act like perfect angel role-models for children (that is their parents job mostly) but to represent an organization that is based on profit, and then for a player to hurt that profit is not professional at all.

by danknerd49 on Jan 7, 2011 10:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Gee, thanks for reading so carefully
Now, before I even get into the basic background information I want to make something perfectly clear: We are NOT here to discuss Michael Vick’s legal issues and whether or not he deserved a second chance.

The purpose of these posts is to see what makes a good QB prospect. We didn’t ask you if he lived up to your moral standards.

But you do make one point that is sort of relevant to this conversation:

And…. just because he is having a stellar year in Philly, do you not remember his time on the Falcons, granted it was caliber at times yet also was mofo’in Ken Dorsey at other times.

How much money and pride did the Falcon’s owner lose?

First of all, we don’t care what he’s doing in Philly. That’s irrelevant because they weren’t the ones that drafted him.
Looking back, I see Mike Vick as a good QB for the Falcons, he had some bad years (injuries) but for the most part he played well and helped lead the team to many wins in his SIX years in Atlanta.

As for money:
Vick played with the falcons through his entire rookie contract. That’s all you can ask from a prospect. Not only that, of the money they gave him w/ the extension in 2004 (or was it 2005?) he had to return nearly $20 million of it because of the legal issues. So the owner lost nothing.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Jan 8, 2011 3:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Lets us look at your question....

“Would you say Michael Vick was worth a 1st round pick?”

was = past tense = hindsight

I answered the question correctly.

by danknerd49 on Jan 8, 2011 10:45 AM PST up reply actions  

So you just read the poll?

That’s not even the most important thing we’re discussing.

That wasn’t the most important question dude.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Jan 8, 2011 12:43 PM PST up reply actions  

It's about winning...

Lots of talk before this season from the “experts” about stats, about how Vick’s always been overrated. Personally, I much prefer watching pure passers like Brady & Rodgers play the position, but Vick’s always been a winner. Led VT to a NCAA Championship w/an undermatched team. Lead an average Falcons team to 2 NFC Championship games in what, 5 or 6 years? No way those teams get there w/out Vick.

Not a V.Young fan AT ALL, but here’s an interesting parallel. Jeff Fisher who most laud as this amazing coach: 6 winning seasons in 17 years as an HC. VY, 30-17 as a starter, 13-14 vs. good teams (nearly .500, not a bad record when QB’ing an average team like the Titans). I think VY’s a headcase and I DON’T want him to come to the 49ers, but I think it’s apparent guys like them are unfairly judged based on stats, not wins and losses.

by Sturg on Jan 7, 2011 11:12 AM PST reply actions  

Agree to a point

Michael Vick has the talent to carry his team to wins.
But when it comes to guys like Vince Young and Shaun Hill, they just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

I mean, Vince Young is just really not such a good QB. We’ll get to him later on.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Jan 7, 2011 2:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I can't stand Vince Young...

Thank god Harbaugh was hired. Harbaugh will have no interest in V.Young. That being said…

V.Young is a headcase and might be a punk, but he’s not a “right place, right time” QB. National title at Texas (making plays down to the wire to get it done). Makes plays as a rookie to nearly lead the Titans into the playoffs (like 6-2 or 8-2 when he started playing). Does the same thing last year and nearly leads the Titans back into the playoffs. 30-17 as a starter on an average team. The Titans didn’t make him better. He made them better (and don’t reference the 10-0 start w/Collins at the helm; that was smoke & mirrors, winning every game by a field goal it seemed, and they got bounced in their 1st playoff game at home).

I don’t like saying it ‘cause I can’t stand Vince Young, but it’s true. If your basis of “good QB” is smart, good leader, accurate passer, etc, then no, he sucks. But if it’s winning games, then he’s (grudgingly admitted) pretty good.

Jeff Fisher again… Most overrated HC in history perhaps. Not suggesting he’s lousy but… 17 years, 6 winning seasons.

by Sturg on Jan 7, 2011 6:04 PM PST up reply actions  

But that's the purpose of these posts

So far I’ve done two and Vick supports your “winners” argument.
In the very first installment, however you’ll see that Chad Pennington was successful but is almost the complete opposite of Vick

After we get through all the posts we’ll go back and decide what a college QB needs to be successful.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Jan 7, 2011 7:00 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Searching then for specific answers that don't exist...

V.Young IS a guy who takes average supporting talent and wins nearly 2 of every 3 games he starts. The fact that he and Vick have similar skill-sets is not my point at all. Chad Pennington is a winner? Absolutely. Totally different skill-set. Exactly.

My “winners” argument is not made to say that QB’s like Vick and VY are best. If you’re trying to find a “type” of QB that’s best, it’s pointless. A “1st Round” Type? Stats, ht/wt, physical tools, high profile college, that team’s success, politics, luck, the drafting team’s needs, they all play a part but there’s no clear answer. Never will be. It’s always been and always will be arbitrary to varying degrees.

Brady, Brees, Manning, Rivers, Vick, Favre, Young, Montana, Elway, Marino, on and on and on. Different sizes, speeds, arm strength, accuracy, grips, release points, mobility, etc. Some high picks, Brady for example, a 6th rounder. There’s no magic formula. It’s like the ridiculous “Tebow throwing-motion” debates from last year. Can he become more compact and improve his delivery? Absolutely. Can he be successful if he doesn’t? Absolutely.

by Sturg on Jan 7, 2011 7:44 PM PST up reply actions  

We're going to look at 30 guys man

And you don’t seem to understand what we’re looking at exactly.

We really don’t care that much about what they did at the NFL level. We want to know what made them 1st round picks and which of those qualities proved to be important/irrelevant.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Jan 8, 2011 3:31 AM PST up reply actions  

this.

screw the stats, Vick’s teams were always winners.

i voted yes.

We don't need 8 in the box. We have 52 in the box.

by these3words on Jan 7, 2011 11:26 PM PST up reply actions  

always?

2006 NFL Atlanta Falcons 7 9 0 292 328 -36 Mora Vick Vick Dunn Crumpler 25 12 15 22 8 21 16 32 -2.3 -0.8 -3.0 -2.8 -0.2
2005 NFL Atlanta Falcons 8 8 0 351 341 10 Mora Dunn Vick Dunn Crumpler 14 12 18 22 17 16 20 32 0.6 -1.9 -1.2 1.1 -2.3
2004 NFL Atlanta Falcons* 11 5 0 340 337 3 Mora Vick Vick Dunn Crumpler 16 20 14 14 17 14 17 32 0.2 -2.4 -2.2 -1.8 -0.4
2003 NFL Atlanta Falcons 5 11 0 299 422 -123 Reeves,Phillips Price Johnson Duckett Price 20 29 30 32 14 28 31 32 -7.7 0.3 -7.4 -2.0 -5.4
2002 NFL Atlanta Falcons* 9 6 1 402 314 88 Reeves Vick Vick Dunn Finneran 5 14 8 19 5 4 16 32 5.5 -0.4 5.1 3.5 1.5

by danknerd49 on Jan 7, 2011 11:54 PM PST up reply actions  

can't make anything out of those numbers

But I don’t know how many times I have to say this:
We are looking primarily at college statistics!

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Jan 8, 2011 3:33 AM PST up reply actions  

alright then:

always except 2003 and 2006 and half of 2005.

what, am i expected to check my facts around here?

We don't need 8 in the box. We have 52 in the box.

by these3words on Jan 8, 2011 4:32 AM PST up reply actions  

read your first post

…good luck with the discussions. i won’t leap frog ahead. happy hunting!

by Sturg on Jan 7, 2011 7:56 PM PST reply actions  

Holy crap that MoFo's fast!

0:35
I knew he was fast, but seeing him vs college players totally made it obvious.

by brundylop on Jan 8, 2011 5:58 AM PST reply actions  

LOL @ Highlight Video

It was against Temple. I got a highlight video playing Temple. Come on, this is a guy who went toe to toe with one of the best college teams ever in Miami.

Results from the NN week long Jim Harbaughoolza: 4 RickRoll'd, 1 Harbaugh.

by bignerd on Jan 8, 2011 9:54 PM PST reply actions  

I picked it because he was playing in the PHI stadium

Plus he threw INTs so we got to see that too.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Jan 9, 2011 3:11 PM PST up reply actions  

He was fast before he got into the dogfighting

He was born with tremendous physical gifts.

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

"I'm just like you, but 10 times better"

by SportsChicken on Jan 11, 2011 3:09 PM PST up reply actions  

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