Cart Rolling Down Hill, Horse Chasing After: If the 49ers' Draft were today
by Tre9er on Oct 24, 2011 12:00 PM PDT
in NFL Draft
Email
PrintI started having a twitter conversation with GrantMP1 late last week after he asked me this question: If the draft were today and the 49ers had re-signed Braylon Edwards, Dashon Goldson, Ahmad Brooks and Carlos Rogers...which positions would you target?
I began sending tweet after tweet with some logic as to why I felt a position group either needed attention or not, and how early I thought we'd have to address each group. Then I realized that sending 35 consecutive tweets of just 140 characters each probably wasn't the most effective way to express my thoughts on the matter.
So instead I thought I'd abuse my position as a glorious (read: unpaid) front-page writer on NN, and mind-dump some draft thoughts here, instead.
The premise is simple: The draft is TODAY, and we've re-signed the above players (and I add Joshua Morgan to those, as well). Based on what we know right now, what positions would we target and in which rounds? After the jump, my thoughts.
The first position that came to mind was defensive back (DB). Lord knows that Rogers has been great, and we'd be bringing him back in this scenario, but what about the rest of the guys? Chris Culliver has shown some flashes and I'm going forward with the thought that he starts next year opposite Rogers. Tarell Brown has been well-utilized by Vic Fangio, but I'm not sure I put the future of CB in Brown's hands should there be an early-season injury to one of the starters.
Still, there are two-to-three guys in place at CB, so I don't think I'd draft one in the first round. Probably another third-rounder type like Culliver who can develop into a great Nickel back and potential fill-in starter.
At Safety I like what Goldson and Whitner have brought to the table, and Reggie Smith has played well in spot-duty this year, too. Again, there is a drop-off after that, though. I think I'd start thinking about a Safety in the fourth round, maybe fifth.
Ahmad Brooks and Aldon Smith look like a good pas-rush tandem right now, but you can never have too many pass-rushers...especially in a pressure 3-4 defense that sends the OLB/DE often. I think I'd keep pass-rusher near the top of my list. We hope to be picking later in the first round, so either there or the second or third round.
The other spot that I have long-term concerns about is 5-tech (3-4 DE). Justin Smith is still playing lights-out, but he's also in his mid 30's and I'd like to have a few years to develop someone to take his place when the time comes. I like what I've seen from Demarcus Dobbs thus-far, but let's be honest...it's FAR too early to place all of our eggs in the basket of an undersized UDFA. I'd keep 5T near the top of my list as well, but probably second thru fourth rounds.
I see Ricky Jean-Francois as a backup NT and depth at 5T, not the long-term answer at either. Isaac Sopoaga has played at a high level this season, but is also nearing his mid 30's. Perhaps Ian Williams can develop into the NT of the future, but competition is good. I'd target a true Fangio NT in the fourth thru sixth rounds.
Running back is another position that's interesting. I think Kendall Hunter has shown the ability to be a big-time contributor, but I'm not sure I want him getting 20+ carries every game. Frank Gore likely has about 2 seasons (including this one) left in the tank before he starts to rapidly decline. Anthony Dixon doesn't seem to have much confidence from the coaching staff and plays mostly special teams and/or late in games that are in-hand.
I think it would be a good idea to start thinking about grooming Frank Gore's replacement - an in-between-the-tackles, hard-nosed runner who compliments what Hunter does on the edges. I'd start looking for this guy in the second round, possibly the first if I was OK with letting Dixon go AND having a three-back rotation (Frank still needs to be on the field).
Wide receiver seems to be a good group, to me, right now. Braylon coming back, Joshua Morgan, Michael Crabtree, Kyle Williams and Ted Ginn, Jr. make a good diverse corps. I could see taking a flyer on a guy who could contribute similarly to how Ginn does, but with more upside on offense than Teddy. He's a great return-man, but let's face it...he's not fit for a lot of snaps on offense. Maybe a later-round guy to compete with the group...maybe none at all.
The offensive line seems to be coming together well and I like the depth we have. I think our backups could start and the group wouldn't miss much of a beat save for the usual "time to jell" period. Plus, we have a few good young players in Daniel Kilgore, Chase Beeler, etc. I wouldn't spend a draft pick on this position.
Inside linebacker is another position group that needs no attention right now. I could possibly see grabbing a mid-to-late-round guy who could be a solid backup to Patrick Willis and NaVorro Bowman, since it seems Larry Grant and Blake Costanzo would represent a drop-off at the position...but I like the mix of the group right now.
You know what position that leaves...Quarterback. Right now I don't know enough about where Colin Kaepernick is in his development to decide if he's the future or not. Nobody knows that about a second-round QB until he's been in the system for a year (unless you're the coach). I like Scott Tolzien as a third-QB and potential backup. Many saw him as a guy who could eventually develop into a starter way down the road. The biggest question is Alex Smith.
If Alex continues to play the way he is right now, and hopefully slightly better (he'll need to when the playoffs come...again, cart...horse) then I'd expect Harbaugh to want him back - at the very least to compete with Kaepernick/whomever next off-season. I think Harbaugh knows that Alex isn't the long-term world-beater who will lead the team to multiple Super Bowls. I can't think of a team who won multiple SB's with the same mediocre QB. The dynasties had really, really good QB's. Tom Brady, Steve Young, Joe Montana.
I know Harbaugh is a good coach, and he schemes very well...but this is also year one. Teams don't have a bead on him or the offense yet. It gets harder from here on out. I think you have to either know that Kaepernick is about ready to lead the team, or you do something serious to address the position.
The Philadelphia's and New England's of the world keep drafting QB's and immersing them in the system, working with them to make them a good QB...whether they end up needing the guy to play or not. You're investing in something that can gain equity and be a valuable asset either on your team or as a means to trade for draft picks or players who can help your team.
If Kaepernick isn't ready, based on our projected draft position of the bottom half of the first round...I would take the right guy, Harbaugh's type of guy, if he fell to me.
So there you have it. The cart is flying down the hill out of control and the horse is doing everything it can to catch up with it. It's fun, admit it...now comment!
264 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
If Alex is back, its his job.
I do not see any point in competition for the sake of competition. This season, and hopefully postseason, should be more then enough information to decide whether we want him or not.
Right now is the premise of the post. RIGHT NOW.
What do we know about Kaepernick or Tolzien right now? Nothing, that’s right.
If for some reason Harbaugh thought Kaepernick wouldn’t be ready (or might not turn into a franchise QB based on what he’s seen thus-far) then you HAVE to draft a QB. It’s called “taking the position seriously”, something we didn’t do since 2005 and hence why there wasn’t another option on the team when Alex played poorly or got injured.
Again, it’d have to be a “Harbaugh-type” QB that he felt was the real deal. We’d all like to think Kaepernick is the shoe-in franchise QB just because he put up highlights and was selected in the 2nd round…but at this point he’s buried on the depth chart and we know literally nothing about his development.
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
What are u trying to say Tre
Right now. Lol. Ok so what qb do you draft what is a Harbaugh qb? Do we know.
by On the fifty on Oct 24, 2011 12:30 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I'd say if RGIII fell down to the 28th spot, Harbaugh would think a lot about that.
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
If a QB is BPA
do we take one even if we’re (hypothetically) completely satisfied with Smith and/or Kaep?
I say yes, unless it's a close gap between the QB and another BPA on your board
but if there’s ANY doubt you have the right guys at QB currently, you HAVE to take one.
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
I agree with your philosophy
But very few QB’s are ready to start week 1 of a season.
Honestly, I would say we look into replacing the left tackle position- I don’t think Staley is the long-term answer there, and we want whoever the QB is to not be murdered.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Oct 24, 2011 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
If Kaep isn't ready and Alex plays well the rest of the year...OK
If Kaep isn’t ready and Alex starts tanking, or doesn’t come back…I think you have to address the position.
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
Granted
I was assuming, against your stated rules, that Alex would be back. If only for continuity in his career (for once), I see him re-signing, probably for slightly less than he might command elsewhere, especially if he keeps improving.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Oct 24, 2011 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
and I'm fine with rolling with him next year, but Kaep better look like the real deal if we don't draft a QB
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
Sure
I think (not unrealistically, I hope) that Kaep WILL be the real deal for the 2013 season.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Oct 24, 2011 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
He's the MAN!
RG3 would be amazing! i truly think he is one of the best passing qbs and running QBs in college football.
I really think Griffin is probably going to wind up a top 15 pick
but I agree with this.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Oct 24, 2011 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Starters are solid across the board
We have some depth and age issues at a few positions, otherwise we should pretty clearly be in BPA mode and trust the coaches to do the rest.
safety still a concern
too bad there aren’t a couple of top notch safeties this year
by whistlingmountain on Oct 24, 2011 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
What about TJ McDonald?
he might be around when the Niners pick
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Oct 24, 2011 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
You can never have to many
DL, DB. OL for that matter. If nothing is pressing u could always go with “best player available”, as long as it’s not a TE we got plenty, lol.
by On the fifty on Oct 24, 2011 12:15 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
This, and probably in this order.
1. We need D-line depth – or someone to work into a rotation with Soap, Smith and McDonald.
2. We need corners
3. We need to have someone to threaten the jobs of Chilo Rachal and Anthony Davis.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
Agree on d-line depth
I think Ice has been playing well, but he doesn’t have the highest ceiling, and if we got someone very good at the position, our front 7 would be even more lethal.
We could also use a good slot corner- they come cheap, and someone who could match up well on quality slot receivers would make our nickel package hard to beat.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Oct 24, 2011 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
mid-rounds again, like Culliver
I think good CB’s come in the 3rd-4th round about as often as the first rounders (a guestimation on my part)
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
a decent RG improved his play considerablly
"Hi my name is Cliff Harris and I am here to lock [site decorum] down" - Cliff Harris introduction at his Freshman Orientation
Reporter : "What do you remember about the BCS title game"
Cliff Harris: "That we lost"
"Stopping the run doesn't come because of scheme. It come because of want to." - Donte Whitner
Follow @manraj76
When Jim Harbaugh says "more is more" I think he is trying to say Moore is more.
Wrong about him needing a reason to play better?
He still has some of the worst footwork I’ve ever seen from a starting tackle not named Kwame Harris.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
so, which WR and OL do you cut?
Morgan, Williams, Ginn? Would we be 6-0 or have won by wider margins “if only we had a stud WR”?
I say no. The offense isn’t designed to get huge chunks of yards. We’re not the Saints.
Unless a stellar prospect tumbles well beyond his grade…I pass on WR until mid-to-late rounds.
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
Ginn no way
His value as a returner is arguably second only to Hester in the league. Please I don’t want to go back to the days of god knows who was our returner just a few years ago. I can’t remember, blocked memories.
second only to Hester? Really?
wow. I love this team as much as the next guy but let’s not start anointing players to the Hall of Fame yet.
I think Ginn is statistically one of the best returners this year, no?
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
Ginn, Washington, Cribbs
Take your pick but I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t make a case for Ginn as 2nd best to Hester right now.
I very much agree.
Ginn’s value as a returner is invaluable. This season he is top quality, and 2nd only to Hester in my eyes.
I think people are forgetting what the return man situation was like before. Arnaz Battle anyone? How about Michael Spurlock??
We never even used Spurlock
I forget who we used but it should’ve been Spurlock at the time (he had a return TD later that year for TB after we let him go). Instead we used him in some stupid fail Rayegun play lmao.
Unless I’m forgetting someone, Brandon Williams was the worst of the bunch during these past few years. Sorry to bring his name up again.
I just don't think it translates to wins
I can’t remember many times where the game was on the line and I said "Man, if only [insert WR’s name here] was a little faster, taller, or had better hands…we’d be doing better now!
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
I tend to agree with you on most things
But I’m not sure that’s true. While I think most of our passing problems had to do with our line, QB, and offensive scheme, it certainly wouldn’t hurt to have quality depth at the position.
If we can grab a second or third rounder who turns into TO, Hines Wards, or Greg Jennings, I’m about it. Someone for whoever the future QB is to mature with.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Oct 24, 2011 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah, I think Braylon, Crabtree, Morgan, Ginn and Williams having a year in this system, with this staff
will make them ALL look better (ok, not Ginn) than they have in the recent past.
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
I do
I think if we had two big, tall WRs like Edwards we’d be much better off. It’d eliminate all those high passes to Crabtree for one thing
or Smith could, you know, stop throwing it high!
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
and by that I mean that I think our scheme and style is not one that commands something better than what we have at WR
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
Swain would be the guy to go. Ginn and Williams stay.
Check out my site!! Sign up for a free account @
The Hometown Fan
Call me crazy
But im still holding on to hope that Crabs is gonna blow up and be our undeniable #1 Reciever. Ive liked Braylon Edwards since he was drafted, but i just dont see him sticking around long. Morgans a good reciever but not a stud.
Im all for drafting a reciever who can stretch the field. Its a little odd when your TE is the fastest player on your offense (Ginn isnt on the field much)
You never know... I think Braylon likes playing for Harbaugh. And if he produces the rest of the year without injury,
I don’t see why he and they would not want him to come back.
Check out my site!! Sign up for a free account @
The Hometown Fan
Probably a guy to push Williams
He’s the only guy that isn’t playing a big role and hasn’t really proven anything in the regular season yet. I like the little that I have seen from him though.
Seems it might be a good year to trade back and stockpile picks for depth unless there’s a guy Baalke has rated much higher that falls to us (other than a MLB). At the moment there’s really no major holes in the staring units so it would be nice to take advantage of those teams that do.
by abasketballfan on Oct 26, 2011 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I think the OL as a UNIT is showing it can play with anyone (Tampa, Detroit) and be good enough to win
I also think they’ll get better and you don’t upset chemistry (former OL’s have said that it’s better to roll out 5 mediocre guys who’ve played together a good-bit than to “inject talent” into the OL)
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
Agree, and they are starting to gel
But I would still be in favor of drafting a quality center (3rd or 4th round- they come cheap), and making sure we have someone who REALLY knows the position for the future, and, simply, because injuries happen.
While we are on the topic of the line, I want to add that I DO believe in Davis, but not Staley.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Oct 24, 2011 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Beeler could be that guy, possibly by next off-season but more than likely 2013
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
That may well be true
I THINK our future interior is set, and would instead advocate spending the pick to address the tackle position.
Honestly, I think Boone may turn out to be the real deal. But, I want to see proof, like any good skeptic/pessimist.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Oct 24, 2011 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Lets play our strenghts and draft a D-line man
Sometimes you gotta play your strenghts. Our run-d has been huge this year. Draft a D-lineman and groom him into taking over for Justin Smith someday, and keep him in rotation til then. A guy with a motor, the idea of ‘wearing down’ an O-line is really intriguing. And it is not because we are very deep in that area, although RJF seems to be doing a good job, remember how scared we all were when Soap went down?
Ben Bertelsen
(you did see that I advocated this in the article, right?)
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
true, I agree as well
But would aim it as a first round. But lets see. BPA should have a lot more to say in our draft choice than in recent years.
Ben Bertelsen
I think we need a RB, DL, and DB's.
I’d take a RB, 5T, NT, CB, S…might even trade-up to get the best at those positions.
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
Dixon hasn't shown much.. of course he hasn't played much either. But get a Gore replacement
who could fit in with Gore and Hunter…
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Dixon has the talent but he needs to take on more of an agressive running style once he does that he can turn into a competent power back
that would go well with the speedy, shifty back that Hunter is
What talent?
He doesn’t have the vision or instinct to anticipate holes at this level of play. That’s why he is back there squaredancing.
because Dixon is turning out to be like Coffee was:
Looks promising but never gets there. We need Frank insurance and Hunter isn’t a 25 carry back.
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
I think we need to draft a kicker in the 1st round
miss you already Mr. Davis
Never go wrong drafting Pass Rushers & O-Linemen....
the more you have the better, the stronger your team.
Get another young Beast to go with Aldon and another young Animal at Center.
Never go wrong drafting Pass Rushers & O-Linemen….
the more you have the better, the stronger your team.
Disagree. If they aren’t any good it doesn’t matter how many you have.
I consider a pass-rusher to be a good pass rusher.
If you can’t get to the QB you’re not a pass-rusher.
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
but I wouldn't draft OL's just because
I don’t want to cut guys who are equal in ability at the bottom of the depth-chart just because…waste of a draft-pick
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
DB
I think our defense was pretty good so far, but our DB’s could be upgraded. If we can resign Rodgers, than we could develop a CB to start on the opposite side. I think Culliver is showing some potential, but I wouldn’t want him starting opposite of Rodgers. If there is no suitable CB in the first two rounds, I would take a Safety.
Still a Cornerback.... gotta keep up with the Packs spread O
There is at least 3-4 starting caliber corners potentially in the 1st round.
Check out my site!! Sign up for a free account @
The Hometown Fan
I like the idea of corner because we'll be drafting late in the first round
CBs often don’t go very high, making it a good position to address in the mid to late first round. Same as Center. Would be happy if we took either in the first.
it's a wide position group
one usually goes top 10 then the rest spread out over the first round and beyond
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
There's like 3 or 4 of them that if they all come out will be great pick ups later in the draft.
Check out my site!! Sign up for a free account @
The Hometown Fan
Yes, but we'll be drafting at number 32.. any good ones left then?
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
remember when McCourty and those guys went later in the 2010 draft.
Those were the guys I wanted.
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
I can’t think of a team who won multiple SB’s with the same mediocre QB. The dynasties had really, really good QB’s. Tom Brady, Steve Young, Joe Montana.
You’re forgetting the two dynasties before those: the ones that featured Troy Aikman and Terry Bradshaw. I’m not saying that these guys were “mediocre”, persay, but they certainly weren’t world-beaters. They were QBs who performed well enough by allowing the talent around them (marquee receiving threats and exceptionally strong ball-control running games) to put up points while letting dominant defenses hold on to leads. Aikman and Bradshaw can be described as QBs who “were pretty good, with the ability to show up in crunch-time”.
Smith may not be on this same level (just yet?), but with the right supporting cast and good game-planning, I could see him (or someone like him) keeping us in playoff contention for a long string of years.
"It came down like a punt, Coach!" - Josh Morgan
Now that you mention it
Looking at Troy Aikman, he only threw for more than 20 TD once in his entire career and never threw for more than 3500 yards. And this was in the golden age before the “QB dry spell” that Brian Billick mentioned in the early ’00s.
Cowboys had a ball control offense with a play making defense
But Aikmen wasn’t mediocre, he wasn’t elite, but he was consistently pretty good.
Terry Bradshaw was ok. It’s really hard to put it in context without being revisionist. The game was different. The bottom line is that if you win multiple super bowls you are considered very good. You won two super bowls.
It doesn’t necessarily change the fact that Alex Smith might be the best option next year no matter what happens. There’s no guarantee that they can find something better, and they certainly shouldn’t try to force it. Talking heads have been touting the glories of doing so the last 5 years and look what the 49ers would have ended up with in the process, Kolb, Cassel, McNabb, Leinart.. the only top notch QB that has shaken loose in the past 5 or 6 years was Brees, and that was following an horrific arm injury.
If the 49ers somehow find one in the next 5 years, it’ll likely be someone that is under the age of 24 right now.
The higher percentage would be them finding someone better than Alex, but still not elite. I don’t know who that would be ( I think Harbaugh still clearly has eyes for Josh Johnson, and for the record Alex can still be a 2nd tier QB, but it’s still an uphill battle ). It wouldn’t SHOCK me if they end up in some situation where they trade for some other teams young back up, or take someone randomly in the draft should they fall. People have mentioned RGIII, and I do think Harbaugh would like him as a person and player, but he’s going to go high, like top half of first round.
by whistlingmountain on Oct 24, 2011 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think we disagree on Aikman
My point is not that he was ever mediocre, but that he wasn’t a yardage or TD stud. He fit into the offense and won games and championships without being a fantasy standout etc.
This is why I don't like fantasy sports
Your points are valid, and as you mentioned, I don’t think you and I are disagreeing, but anyone who claims that Troy Aikman wasn’t at least a very good QB wasn’t paying a lot of attention during the 90’s.
I’m not saying that line and ES/MI didn’t make him a LOT better, but he was top 5 most of his career, even if he was 4th of 5th on the list a lot.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Oct 24, 2011 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
9 of 21 passes for 123 yards and 2 INT
Passer rating of 22.6: lowest in Super Bowl history by a winning quarterback.
Another one..
21 of 30 for 256 yards, one TD, and one INT. Passer rating of 93.2
I think Alex Smith can do that.
probably, but it's rare for Alex to throw 30+ times
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
Pittsburg's defense won those SBs
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Actually
An amazing pass from Rothlisberger to Santonio Holmes won the Superbowl at the end of a two minute drive. Big Ben is an underrated QB and wins are overlooked with QB for the ease of stats. People need to go back and watch the games. Kurt Warner had better stats than Ben I am sure, but Ben scored the winning TD.
J. Smith is in 'mid-thirties' and Sopoaga is 'approaching mid-thirties'??
J Smith is only 32 and Soap is only 30! Good D-Lineman can play well into their mid 30s and even sometimes into their late 30s. I Think we’re ok there, we just need a little more depth.
Makes me want to cry
Thinking that we wasted a handful of Justin Smith’s prime years and Gore’s as well, since the shelf life for RB’s is so short.
how do you define waste? only one team wins the super bowl every year
he provided us many entertaining plays.
by whistlingmountain on Oct 24, 2011 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
depth seems fine
they have Dobbs, Williams and RJF. Young hungry guys with upside.
by whistlingmountain on Oct 24, 2011 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Demarcus Dobbs, Ian Williams, RJF, and Ray McDonald are our FUTURE!!!
Check out my site!! Sign up for a free account @
The Hometown Fan
As long as we keep Tomsula, those guys will all be awesome by the time they're ready to start.
Some sooner than others.
Check out my site!! Sign up for a free account @
The Hometown Fan
why a guard?
we have kilgore from last year, he deserves a shot. Would rather we drafted a C.
He might pan out to be decent
as a backup or an average starter — but he’s 5th round talent, the ceiling isn’t very high there.
point is we have someone
Goodwin is signed to a one year deal and doesn’t look that great. If we’re going to draft a lineman, would prefer a center. Pick up a guard in the FA if Kilgore/Snyder aren’t working out.
I don't understand this statement.
You’re saying that all NFL players have a ceiling of which round they were drafted in? Kilgore looked really good in preseason and he came from a small school so I don’t think the round he was drafted in really applies to his talent level.
"We just feel more certain assurance of success when all that's written is written against us. When honey words of praise are flowered upon us that we begin to feel exposed before our enemies." - Jim Harbaugh
by SanFranciscoKnights on Oct 24, 2011 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Huh?
/scratches head.
I don’t think there was a guy who played better at the guard position in preseason. I’d say that assuming we won’t pan out is way premature.
Check out my site!! Sign up for a free account @
The Hometown Fan
that's true
every year we feel like our whole team is deep and anyone could start games next year if need be. Then guys like Coffee happen, Bear Pascoe, McKillop, etc.
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
I haven't said anything about Person...
But Kilgore deserves praise…. I am not sitting here like some saying Boone or someone like that should start. But I would not doubt that Kilgore has what it takes to start in the NFL eventually. If he doesn’t do it with us, he will with someone else.
Check out my site!! Sign up for a free account @
The Hometown Fan
I agree
I’d like to see a RG, we have a history of being a BPA team and guards with the exception of Iupati usually dont go higher than 20. Figuring we’ll be anywhere from 25 to dead last I think the BPA might very well be a RG, and it’s not exactly a position of strength, much better since Snyder took over but I wouldn’t say he is anywhere near Iupati’s ability level. I like Kilgore but if he is better than our top pick well then he’s just gotta show it. I’d like to see a CB in the 2nd if he’s solid not just for the sake of taking one. I like Culliver and Rogers but really Culliver isn’t a sure thing yet, and if he ends up a nickel for a few years and ultimately a really good #2 no big deal if we could get a stud to eventually replace Rogers great. On a side note this years CB class is scaring me, it was supposed to be one of the best and deepest in a long time and PP, Prince, and Smith don’t seem like they are the step in shutdown threat they were supposed to be, a lot to ask from a rookie ya, but still thought they would have been better than being #1 on one of the worst passing defenses around, #2 hurt, and #3 well to be totally honest I haven’t followed Jimmy Smith as much but I remember hearing he was struggling. I do want to see an eventual J Smith replacement but I think we can find a ridiculous motor guy in the 3rd rd, wasn’t McDonald a 5th rounder, only way I break this is if again the BPA in the 1st is a 3-4 DE
Culliver has everything a starting CB needs to have physically
he just needs to bring the mental side of his game WAY up.
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
We should just draft the best player available.
That concept rarely fails, then if you end up with a pro-bowl caliber player, you trade the rest for future draft picks, or for players that provide depth at needed positions.
98% disagree
with the 2% being that you of course shouldn’t take BPA in a late round if he wouldn’t make your team anyway. (e.g. you have 5 WR you feel really good about and you think the best player on the board is a WR… you probably shouldn’t take that guy in that case).
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Oct 24, 2011 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
especially with no glaring needs on the team at this point.
if NT is the best player, why take OLB or WR? Especially if that NT would be an improvement over the player you have. (Just using NT as an example.)
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Oct 24, 2011 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Answer me this then
BPA what? Best college player available? Best NFL ready player? How do you determine the latter when 95% of college teams don’t run NFL systems? If it’s the former then why wasn’t Tim Tebow drafted #1 overall?
If this was a science I’d say sure, draft BPA, except it’s not a science. It’s more of a highly complicated guessing game.
The best strategy is a combination of best player and need. You sort your draft picks in the first round according to spot—say picks 1-10, 11-20, and bottom 3rd. Then sort the rest of your picks according to the half of the round they fall in (say 1st half of the 2nd, 2nd half of the 2nd, etc.).
Then if you have 5 players that you grade as a bottom 3rd of the 1st, then you pick the one that best suits your needs.
Also, how do you determine BPA anyway? Skill? Against what competition? Speed? Well that gets you Al Davis and JaMarcus Russell.
Are you saying he wasn't the best college player in that draft?
or at least one of the top 10 best college players?
No.
Suh was the best college player in the draft. Heck, Mike Iupati was a better college player.
Maybe top 10, I will give you that. He still sucks.
You have hit your head
You cannot put a value on Tebow…. too many factors… who knows how many times he babysat players.. how many times he was a listening ear… how many times he convinced a high schooler to come to florida… When a diva position like QB out hits you on the field and out lifts you in the weight room then you tend to notice and causes you to step up. People followed that guy into war blindly and this is coming from a fan of a rival team. I would have given my left baby maker to have tebow bc id have some national championship banners… i dont know who you like mindles but he could have won it for your team too im sure…. nobody likes a hater so stop haha
That's what the scouts are paid to do
evaluate talent. Of course it’s not perfect. That’s why it would be foolish to add any more imperfections by going with a guy you think is less talented because he fits a “need.” You take the best player most of the time and your team will be the better for it. Drafting for need gets you players like Mike Rumph. Drafting for BPA gets you players like Patrick Willis. That’s oversimplifying it, and anecdotal evidence, but I think you get my point.
As for whether it’s most NFL ready or highest ceiling, of course you’re looking to balance those two. You take both projectability and immediate readiness into account when evaluating a player.
Jamarcus Russell was maybe the most physically gifted player available. That doesn’t mean he was the best player available. Of course you take intangibles into account— those count too. There were plenty of red flags on JaMarcus. If anything, I think that was a subset of the drafting for need philosophy in that the Raiders were picking first and they therefore felt obligated to take a QB. If they’d honestly just looked at the players available, red flags and all, I thought at the time they should’ve taken Calvin Johnson.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Oct 24, 2011 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions
there's a limit to BPA
Obviously it changes as you draft. Taking an ILB in the first because he’s BPA wouldn’t seem like a good move (unless freak injury happens). Taking a TE in the first BPA…again.
I think your BPA’s have to incorporate need to a degree, a weighting, if you will.
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
when I did mocks last year I had a weighting system I came-up with to put the positions of need
slightly higher than those that weren’t. I didn’t want to see QB’s all over my top 10 because I didn’t feel it was a strong group or a huge need immediately for our team (weird to say but we knew Alex was back and Harbaugh would groom someone for future.)
I ended up with CB’s, DL’s, OLB’s at the top of my board for the most part and the QB’s, TE’s, etc. were further down, but still not too far from where they would go. That way I could still see a bargain (like a top 5 player falling to the 20’s)
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
Off topic but....
Heard Santana Moss will be out a few weeks and Hightower is out for the season. Looks like were going to get a beat up Washington squad with questions at QB….
On topic….D-Line!!! DB’s!!! We’ve spent to many drafts focusing on O-line, there meshing and will only mesh more as time goes and young!!!
by Frisco_Kid on Oct 24, 2011 12:57 PM PDT via iPhone app reply actions
and by all means i am not looking past Clevelend...
every NFL team deserves respect unless your the Colts!!!!
by Frisco_Kid on Oct 24, 2011 12:59 PM PDT via iPhone app up reply actions
if they re-sign the key guys, it's BPA with an emphasis on play-makers
CB is the safest bet right now, particularly if they’re thinking about how to beat the best teams in the NFL.
That being said, bringing in a top notch RG ( like the guy from Stanford, or the C from Wisconsin ) might go a long way to improving the pass blocking. Depends on how they feel about Goodwin, Kilgore and Person. Where do Boone and Snyder fit in their plans?
There are a fair amount of role players that are free agents, so will be interesting to see how they are valued, who is priority, who they let dangle in free agency.
by whistlingmountain on Oct 24, 2011 1:15 PM PDT reply actions
First round pick for a kicker is what we need.
Jokes aside, a decade worth of Sebastian’s leg could be worth more in added close wins then some decent first round picks.
They did it once before..with some no name like Ray Guy
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Mid 30s?
Justin Smith is 32
Isaac Sopoaga is 30.
Smith has another 3-5 years of solid to great production left. Same with Sopoaga.
That's optimistic
Smith is fantastic, playing like an all-pro this season, and has been incredibly durable, BUT: He’s one of the two most important players on our defense, and we don’t have anyone to replace him. Injuries happen, and fate is not kind to aging superstars: Let’s start grooming his replacement relatively soon, as the 5-technique takes awhile to learn.
Soap, I think we upgrade simply because, while he’s not bad, he’s probably got the least upside of our front 7.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Oct 24, 2011 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Sopoaga has only been starting since 2008
He’s got lots of wear and tear left on him. We’ve got his replacement in RJF.
The closest person in playing style to Justin Smith that I can recall is Warren Sapp who played at a high level for 13 seasons.
We aren't disagreeing
But if he DOES get hurt, with our current personnel, that group takes a big hit.
It’s a deep draft for defensive lineman; I think RJF could be good, but I’d want to make sure he could be REALLY good before committing to him for the future. I think he could be better than Soap, but Soap is probably the least impressive of our front 7 (depending on whether or not you count Parys).
And, Warren Sapp played at a high level for about 11 seasons. I remember him looking pretty lousy as a Raider, at times.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Oct 24, 2011 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
His first season as a Raider
he was asked to play a position he wasn’t suited for. The next season they moved him back to his natural position and he did far better. He went from a 4-3 with Tampa to a 3-4 in Oakland
Cliff Harris, CB/PR Oregon.......
Simply the best DB in college….
LaMichael James in the 2nd or 3rd round. With Gore on his way out in the next few year, Hunter looks to take over but James is faster than Hunter and the same size. James has Barry Sanders type moves and quickness. He will only drop in the rounds because of size…see Hunter..
Watch Oregon games, James already runs between the tackles.
And he has the speed and sick moves to do whatever he needs to do to win games.
by ericalancanty on Oct 24, 2011 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions
He runs between the tackles
In a spread option offense with line splits and multiple receiver sets that essentially puts opposing defenses into a nickel package all game.
The NFL is a different world.
Because he's better than Gore
He doesn’t go down on the first hit, he can’t possibly be any worse catching screen passes out of the backfield, and when we give him enough carries to see the infrequent wide open mack truck hole he’ll take it for 80 and a TD instead of 45 and being caught from behind.
But I still don’t want him seeing 300 carries a year with the majority between the tackles. You’ll wear a guy Hunter’s size down like that.
But Hunter is 5’7" and 200. James is 5’9" and 185.
Frank goes down first hit? You’re delusional. There have been holes he has missed. Watch closely next game.
Frank is a better back, PERIOD!!
Leggoooo!!!
And yet that is what happens on game day
Every single game day.
0 yards, 1 yard, 2 yards, 1 yard, 0 yards, 45 yards when our line opens a hole wide enough for a marching band.
“Frank the Tank” is only a nickname because it rhymes.
Cliff Harris
Has all the talent in the world, but is also what is known as a dumbass. (See: Pacman Jones). He is a first-round talent without a doubt, but is also an incredibly risky investment.
We DO need a Shonn Greene style back sooner rather than later, and they come cheap.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Oct 24, 2011 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I think harbaugh will draft him because
Harris seems to like kicking people in the shins who say nice things about him
He would be great at press conferences
Every time someone tried to praise Harbaugh or the Niners, Harbs could just turn to Harris, nod in the reporter’s direction, and whisper “kick him”.
That said, he needs to show a little more maturity…I worry about him turning into DeAngelo Hall, and wouldn’t draft him in the first 20 picks, though someone else undoubtedly will; on talent alone, he’s exceptional.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Oct 24, 2011 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think that the 49ers would have a top 20 pick....It should be much further down the line....
by ericalancanty on Oct 24, 2011 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Harris drove 118 mph and took care of his stuff. He didn't get arrested 8 times in a year....Pac Man is a thug, Cliff is just young and dumb.
growing up is what Chip Kelly is teaching him, making him earn every down he plays.
by ericalancanty on Oct 24, 2011 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Pacman is a thug? Based on what? being accused of doing a lot of things at night clubs? Do you know what a thug is?
I am doubting you have a clue making such a bold statement.
Leggoooo!!!
From the Urban Dictionary:
The original Thugs were bands of roving criminals in India who strangled and robbed travellers. Originally these gangs committed murder following precise religious rites to honour Kali, the Hindu goddess of destruction.
Check out my site!! Sign up for a free account @
The Hometown Fan
What is THUG?
THUG is “Violent criminal” or
“Person struggling to make something of their life”
Sounds like Pac man to me………..
by ericalancanty on Oct 24, 2011 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions
You have to be kidding me..................Here I am, defending Cliff Harris and then I read that he did it agian...today.....
Maybe he is a little like Pacman…not learning his lesson……Pacman is still a thug….
And by thug I mean…..not a very nice guy, who likes to get arrested as much as Aldon Smith sacks QBs. A guy that just doesn’t get it……and probably won’t, like Ontarrio Smith…The Wizzinator.
by ericalancanty on Oct 24, 2011 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions
This Is What We Need
RG- Their’s No Sure Guy Between Rachel & Snyder Also We Need A Center , Goodwins Turns 30 Or Already Is 30
DE – There’s Always Value At A 5T DE In The Later Rounds Id Look In The 2nd Round
CB – This Would Be The Hardest Position To Find Great Value On In The Later Rounds Beside Guys Like Asante Samuel (4th) , But Even Then He Gives Up Big Plays As Much As He Makes Them – 1st Round
by LA#1BullsFan on Oct 24, 2011 1:47 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Goodwins 32 years old
and will be 33 next season
by Frisco_Kid on Oct 24, 2011 2:02 PM PDT via iPhone app up reply actions
I think it is
Goodwin has a one year deal and isn’t that great
Actually
Goodwin is signed thru the 2013 season. And I think he’s playing pretty well, too.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Oct 24, 2011 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Still, I’d be fine with drafting a youngster in the middle rounds to provide depth and maybe be Goodwin’s eventual replacement.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Oct 24, 2011 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Beeler
Based on the activity on Beeler this last couple weeks (let off the PS for a week, then resigned to our PS over joining another teams 53) he’s our future center. The knock on him has been size, not smarts by far and it seems he has faith in whatever Harb’s has told him that there are plans for him.
It seems the 9ers and him agree he needs a full offseason conditioning program to get into NFL shape and it sounds like next season he might be an interior swing player on the 53 then the starting center the year after (when goodwin’s contract is up).
As for Goodwin, he didn’t play much his first few years in the league, so a bit less milage on him. He should be fine for the length of his contract, and with that setup a great mentor for Beeler.
I think youre assessment on Beeler & Goodwin are right on
Beeler reminds me of Heitmann, he just needs to act bulk. He is so smart and knows the system very well.
I like Beeler a lot too
If Harbaugh really is that high on him though, I think he’d probably be on the 53 man roster, but I could be wrong.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Oct 24, 2011 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions
he's just not ready, yet. Harbs doesn't want to push off a guy who can play ST's right now
for a Center who will never even dress.
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
I think the assumption that we re-sign Edwards is premature.
Edwards has had a mediocre career since his 07 season. We still have to see if he’s going to revive his career or if it’s going to continue being “meh”. He really needs to come back from this injury strong.
Right now he’s still running on reputation for that one season — this year he has 4 catches in 5 quarters — so we have absolutely no idea what we have in him.
Even if he is decent for cheap, that's still better than banking on someone who's never played a snap in the NFL.
Who may or may not pan out at all.
Check out my site!! Sign up for a free account @
The Hometown Fan
I don't agree
Consistent mediocrity is what we’ve been settling for all decade. Time to change the way we do things.
Braylon isn't a mediocre receiver.
That’s your own perception and it’s off.
Check out my site!! Sign up for a free account @
The Hometown Fan
Tre9er:
Last week Damon Bruce let slip that he has good sources on the Niners staff that told him that JH is very,very excited about what he sees in Colin Kaepernick. So,if we trust JH,as I do,then I guess that means that as soon as Kaep is ready he will be THE starting QB. JH has Alex playing up to the Journeyman level+ and in fact Alex would now be a really good backup QB,if he stays.
lol
my thoughts exactly. I have a feeling that Damon Bruce means to say everything he says. That doesn’t mean what he says is often very smart.
But still, if there’s any truth to it, it’s good to hear. I’m pretty excited about Kaep too. A year on the bench should be good for him, and really he’s got all the talent in the world. Truly a “sky’s the limit” type of player.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Oct 24, 2011 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Same ol broken record with you
How is your boy Nate Davis doing
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
by EcERyda69 on Oct 24, 2011 2:21 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
There’s a difference between a 5th round QB with a documented learning disability and a player selected near the top of the second round. You don’t take a QB there unless you think he’s an eventual starter, and a good one at that.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Oct 24, 2011 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I get that
Loved the Kaep pick, I was Just messing with Tim.
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
by EcERyda69 on Oct 24, 2011 3:17 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Ah, I see
my bad
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Oct 24, 2011 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Yup , heard Nate Davis whispering in Bruce's ear , wait it was Troy Smith , nope ... It's AleX Smith still owning you and your delusions of granduer ...!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
oh" boy" ...........................................
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Oct 24, 2011 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Dont Watch College Ball
Can Someone Give Me The Names To The Best 5T DE Also The Best Guard & Best CB In College Right Now So I Can See Their Highlights
by LA#1BullsFan on Oct 24, 2011 1:56 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
David DeCastro, G from Stanford
hopefully he’ll be around when we pick, it upgrades our interior O-Line and he knows Harbaugh/system. Normally, i’d say D-line, but this is a spot due for an upgrade.
"There was no torture in the end. Only rapture." - Mike Krukow
Flags Fly Forever
"Orlando before Zod" doesn't have the same nice ring to it.
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 24, 2011 1:57 PM PDT reply actions
I would actually support this
because the Chilo thing has to end and Snyder is decent but not an All-Pro
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
I absolutely love DeCastro as a prospect, but I think I’d prefer to let the current line stand, and add depth. It’s really just getting better each week. Let them continue to gel and I think we’ve already got something beastly on our hands.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Oct 24, 2011 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions
This is the ideal pick, IMO
DeCastro is a leader, tough, smart, mobile, knows Harbaugh’s system, strong, makes everyone around him better. He may be gone, but if not, he moves smoothly into right guard, his current position, and the OL gets better immediately. Also either he or Kilgore could move to center if Beeler doesn’t pan out. If DeCastro is gone, I like the Washington NT and Tim McDonald.
Here is what I see us needing:
A tackle, because Staley isn’t the long-term answer, and Anthony Davis, while he still has room and talent to improve, hasn’t gotten there yet. I DO think Alex Boone has a future on the team though. A higher pick here could be ok, just not first round.
Safety: Just because they come cheap, and at least one of our current group (which is very good) won’t be back. A slot corner could also be picked around the same time.
Receiver: Quality depth matter, and there still isn’t anyone on our roster I’m willing to apply the star label to.
Either a NT, or Justin Smith clone: quality future d-line players. This might be our #1 pick, as it’s a good draft for it.
OLB: Always grab at least one guy with potential, and see if he turns into anything special.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
I am also willing
to listen to arguments for running backs (AD may not be on the team in a year, though I think he CAN play better), and corners, but I think having guys who can rush the passer takes immediate priority over guys to cover opposing teams receivers.
When is Rogers signed until?
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Oct 24, 2011 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Rogers 1-yr deal
I think there needs to be a balance. It’s easy to say that a good pass rush can cover up secondary deficiencies, but just look at the Vikings….Allen and Robison have like 16 sacks combined but their secondary is worthless with Winfield hurt.
Agreed
But whatever position we don’t install Aldon Smith at (DE/OLB), we need to pick someone we can groom for the long-term; Brooks is talented but inconsistent, and Parys, while having a career year, still may not be the long-term guy.
At this point, the team needs to make every reasonable effort to re-sign Carlos; he has been $.
Honestly, I’d also say let’s grab another ILB; they come cheap, and our starters are fantastic, but our depth is not there.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Oct 24, 2011 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Rogers has said he wants to play for this team
so here’s hoping we re-sign him in a month or so
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
with you except WR doesn't go til mid-to-late for me
a guy with the tools but not the tape maybe. Perhaps a small-school kid or one who only started a season or two but who has the tools.
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
It's probably too early for this
but I also think it’s interesting to start sizing up the likely draft class and getting a read on what types of players might be available near the bottom of the 1st round (where the Niners are likely to pick). I see several interesting DBs and at least one pass rusher who seems like he might be a great fit for the system (Courtney Upshaw). Not so sure about DLinemen this year… no one really stands out to me as a great fit there. And as for QB, I’m pretty sure the prospects I like will be gone by then… but besides that, I think Harbaugh is probably going to pull off some version of a Colin Kaepernick/Josh Johnson battle for the starting job.
I also notice that you didn’t stipulate whether Ted Ginn is re-signed in this scenario. If not, return man becomes a big priority, given how much we’ve depended on field position this year.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Oct 24, 2011 2:52 PM PDT reply actions
I just can’t see them dumping Smith for an unproven QB at this point. He’s playing well enough to win, and barring a major regression I think it is unlikely that they push someone like Kaep into the starting slot when there’s so much to be gained from sitting him and letting him watch and grow. If Kaep is the man to win in the future, why not groom him now while at the same time winning in the present with a known commodity in Smith?
you bring in johnson
and stress the importance of competition. If JJ isnt getting a starting job in this league, one would think that he would like to be a backup under his old coach.
Cain is Able ...
Smith is playing alright
I’m happy for him. But if you think this is the passing game Harbaugh wants for the longterm, then I strongly disagree. I think what we have here is a repeat of the Andrew Luck/Tavita Pritchard situation at Stanford. Harbaugh actually red-shirted Luck as a freshman when he didn’t have anyone better because he didn’t want to throw a young QB out there who wasn’t ready. Luck was probably the better option to “win now” but Harbaugh nevertheless handed the job to Pritchard for the season and groomed Luck behind the scenes.
Alex has been very efficient this year, but I don’t think Harbaugh views him as the longterm guy.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Oct 24, 2011 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I can see that
And that’s what I’m saying—Kaep is the longterm guy. But he doesn’t take the field now because Smith is “win right now” so Kaep can learn and become the longterm guy we want
oh definitely
but this offseason, I think there’s a strong chance they let Alex walk, unless they can bring him back at a reasonable salary and tell him he’s competing with Kaep for the starting job.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Oct 24, 2011 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions
franchise tag seems likely.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Oct 25, 2011 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions
that's a TON of cash for Alex
No way I pay him tens of millions of dollars for a season
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
only other way is to sign him to a long term contract. what kind of long term contract will Alex be willing to sign? I doubt Alex would take another one year deal.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Oct 25, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t know that Kaep will be ready to be an NFL starter so soon. Depending on how deep Alex can take us in the playoffs they let Kaep sit and really develop for a few years of winning (the Aaron Rodgers method). Unless Alex really obviously hits a ceiling and seems to be the only thing holding the team back he gets a few more years (I remain optimistic that we don’t know his full potential yet).
I don't think they draft a return man even if Ginn is gone.
Kyle Williams and Culliver were both really productive in college, I think they would both be very good at PR/KR. Also Hunter could end up being solid too.
"We just feel more certain assurance of success when all that's written is written against us. When honey words of praise are flowered upon us that we begin to feel exposed before our enemies." - Jim Harbaugh
by SanFranciscoKnights on Oct 24, 2011 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Hunter is a good KR and Williams is a good PR
Not sure either is as good as Ginn, though. Still, Ginn’s contract goes up next year, I believe and I could see it
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
Since all the positions that would be a need are resigned.
Alex Boone and Tremaine Brock would be restricted free agents and likely to be resigned. Everyone is saying oline, but lets not forget that two oline were drafted in 2011. Daniel Kilgore was drafted and cost a few picks. He could easily come in and play right guard next year if Snyder is not resigned. I believe there is a good chance Snyder stay a niner as he already signed one extension before. Places that could use upgrade is Soaps, image someone with the potential or even close to the potential of Ngata as the niners NT with Justin Smith and Ray McDonald on either side? Alameda Ta’’amu could be that guy. Olb is very thin right now and Baalke may be planning to get another beast opposite Aldon Smith. Cb or FS could also be drafted, but would rather have a FS to replace goldson than a cb at this point in the year. Coaching has seemed to greatly improve the secondary this year. Depth would need to be added in the later rounds of the draft: wr, olb, o-line. I could see this mainly as a defensive draft with two or three offensive side players drafted. Special teams would also be factored in especially if Ted Ginn Jr. is not resigned. Really I think it all depends who is available when the niners draft; if a really good wr is there, it could be hard to pass up or if a really good defensive player is there(besides ILB).
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
Agree with everything but the last line
We don’t need to spend a high draft pick on it, but if a good ILB is still on the board in round 4 or 5, we should think about it- Willis and Bowman are an excellent random, but the guys behind them are nothing special.
Should either be injured, I want someone better than Blake Costanzo.
Kilgore starts at RG next year; book it.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Oct 24, 2011 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
high as in 1-3.
4 or 5th if the guy is a beast definitely draft him; maybe Mckillop can be brought back after letting his injury recover another year. Constanzo is strictly a special teamer.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Oct 24, 2011 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I've thought about this
I think McKillop is a good backup ILB and core ST’s player. He’s just not right, yet. Hopefully he get’s right
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
Larry Grant seems pretty good though at ILB.
He played well in the preseason and he started a bunch of games for the Rams last year I believe.
"We just feel more certain assurance of success when all that's written is written against us. When honey words of praise are flowered upon us that we begin to feel exposed before our enemies." - Jim Harbaugh
by SanFranciscoKnights on Oct 24, 2011 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
ya, he started for the rams at ILB.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Oct 24, 2011 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah dude, if they think they can get a BJ Raji-type guy in the first I would say go for it.
"We just feel more certain assurance of success when all that's written is written against us. When honey words of praise are flowered upon us that we begin to feel exposed before our enemies." - Jim Harbaugh
by SanFranciscoKnights on Oct 24, 2011 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions
In no particular order...
5 tech, CB, OLB, OC, NT.
Since we obviously won’t be participating in the Andrew Luck sweepstakes, I think QB is out unless Alex fails monumentally going forward, and Kaep fails in relief.
Ninjames on Anthony Dixon's Tweeting:
"He’s going for the ‘T’ key, he should probably turn to it, but he stops and checks out the ‘R’ key first, then doubles back for a look at the ‘Y’ key, then by the time he decides to go back to ‘T’ to get some words typed, he’s brought down for a two-yard loss, ending up with the ‘G’ key."
Also WR
but for the love of Bob Saget, not a first round WR.
Ninjames on Anthony Dixon's Tweeting:
"He’s going for the ‘T’ key, he should probably turn to it, but he stops and checks out the ‘R’ key first, then doubles back for a look at the ‘Y’ key, then by the time he decides to go back to ‘T’ to get some words typed, he’s brought down for a two-yard loss, ending up with the ‘G’ key."
this
I’m saying, take a kid with the tools but not the hype
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
Unrelated topic
But is anyone else irritated at how bad the MNF offerings have been this season? I barely even want to watch, and that’s saying something. The best matchup of October is on Halloween night, and that’s the best night to have other plans…
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
Absolutely!
MNF has been nothing but UGH so far.
Ninjames on Anthony Dixon's Tweeting:
"He’s going for the ‘T’ key, he should probably turn to it, but he stops and checks out the ‘R’ key first, then doubles back for a look at the ‘Y’ key, then by the time he decides to go back to ‘T’ to get some words typed, he’s brought down for a two-yard loss, ending up with the ‘G’ key."
I mean, if tonight were Ravens-Colts...
It would still be a lousy game, but you’d get why the schedule makers thought it was a great matchup prior to Manning’s injury.
But who looked at Jacksonville and said “That team needs to be in primetime!”
Would argue the same thing about the Dolphins in the opener, but the Patriots at least made it interesting with their offensive fireworks.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Oct 24, 2011 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Do you really consider Dobbs undersized at 6'6''?
"We just feel more certain assurance of success when all that's written is written against us. When honey words of praise are flowered upon us that we begin to feel exposed before our enemies." - Jim Harbaugh
by SanFranciscoKnights on Oct 24, 2011 3:48 PM PDT reply actions
Not height wise
Just in terms of weight, relative to height.
I think a years worth of an NFL conditioning program might do a lot for him. If he can put on 15-20 lbs of productive bulk, I think he’s shown enough motor that he may have a future in the league.
I like him, and believe in him for the long-term, but he’s not ready for the spotlight…yet.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Oct 24, 2011 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Isn't he like 300lbs
"Hi my name is Cliff Harris and I am here to lock [site decorum] down" - Cliff Harris introduction at his Freshman Orientation
Reporter : "What do you remember about the BCS title game"
Cliff Harris: "That we lost"
"Stopping the run doesn't come because of scheme. It come because of want to." - Donte Whitner
Follow @manraj76
When Jim Harbaugh says "more is more" I think he is trying to say Moore is more.
Dobbs, Williams and Beeler will all be bigger and stronger and ready to fill in next year.
Dobbs is such a great story…. I would love to see him and Aldon Smith going at the QB from the RT side. They looked good together in the preseason.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Exactly, none of them have been through an NFL offseason weight training program
They will be so much stronger going into next season
Williams needs to cut body fat. He's built like a Guard
he needs to get stronger
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
Free Agency will change the landscape....
We are a team on the rise this offseason, last year no top free agents wanted to come to SF, next offseason we will be a top commodity to all players around the league because of our winning ways and new coaching staff. If there is a good young RT or RG, or Pass Rusher, or FA WR or CB, our needs will change. I just think SF is the place to be next offseason, if we were this good last year i think we would have gotten Nnamdi from the raiders, but his play this year has been mediocre so were better off…
no overpriced FA's.
We did stellar job in FA this year and got everyone on the cheap.
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
Re-signing thoe players? We would still need a FS. You know, one that tries to play the ball for a pick.
Goldson should not even be considered. Whitner is better at getting to the ball vs the run. Forget retaining Goldson. he must be a Baalke pick.
Leggoooo!!!
I mentioned that in the article
I think Safety is a need position. We need a mid-round guy with range and ball-skills to develop as a FS
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
Nose Tackle, CB, OL, WR
Thats what i see as positions that could be improved through the draft.
I have always been a proponent of the Best Player Available concept
simply because teams that draft on need tend to reach for that position, of course unless that player is a home run for that organization then it makes them look good.
I think it is also a situation concept such as where you are drafting and how many picks you have. Lets use the Niners, if the season continues on the path that is then they could be picking somewhere in the mid 20’s. The top skill players will more than likely be gone, that part of the round is where teams usually pick the both sides of the lines or where those skills players that have off the field issues or injury issues tend to go. Or even RB’s, since that position is becoming less and less important to draft early to get a good back.
The sign of a good Front Office is not what you do in the 1st two rounds, its what you do in rounds 3-7, where you find players that your coaching staff can mold into productive players on your team. This Front Office found guys like Morgan, Sopoaga, Goldson & Bowman and have found early contributors in Culliver, Hunter & Miller.
My gut tells me that the top positions of needs going into the 2012 Draft will be CB, OLB & WR. I know people would look at the RG as a position where the team could draft a player but I think Synder is a solid player who will get resigned and have Daniel Kilgore developing behind him. Chilo most likely will be with another team.
The league is now a passing league and the Niners are smart enough to know that, and the team has to counter that. The team has built the team to stop the run defensively and to run the ball offensively, they are top 5 in both category. Now its time to develop the rest.
The Lions, Packers, Cowboys & Saints love to pass and the Niners need to defend the firepower they have. So now while they have gotten great play from the secondary that shouldnt stop them from getting better. Plus as Tre as said, you can’t have too many pass rushers in the 3-4. Aldon has been great but what if we could get another great pass rusher opposite of him, now that would be awesome.
As for WR, I love the group the team has but outside of Crabtree & Williams everyone else is a Free Agent and none of us know how that will turn out. If the team resigns all of them, then great, I would love that and that will no longer be an early need but you can never be too sure
Now not so much because of the new rookie scale
But in the past where team picking players that werent deserving of the slot where they got drafted were stuck with a player that wasnt preform up to what he was getting paid
exactly
and I think picking in the bottom half of the first round is the best place to be.
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
IF Smith plays well...
That’s a big if… If he plays well the rest of the season, I don’t see any reason why we couldn’t give him a 3 year contract or something along those lines. He’s still only 27… 27! We can easily get 7-8 years out of him. Steve Young was like 30 once he finally started for the niners.
If the season ended today, I would want Smith, and not Kaep as my opening day starter. He has played well enough to deserve that.
Thats really the perfect storm for this team, this is what Coach Harbaugh wanted all along
I truly believe that he wanted to keep Kaep off the field for as long as he can and if its a couple of seasons before he becomes the starter then the better it is for the team. Kaep has all the raw tools to be a really good starter in this league, right now Coach and the staff are working on his mind. I would love it if the only time he gets in the rest of this season and all of next is just garbage time. Get him a few snaps here and there. Fundamentals are so key in the WCO that he needs to develop that before he see some serious time on the field
exactly
Alex Smith has enough talent to be a great QB. He can still be a good or even great QB, and if he is, then Kaep turns into a huge trade chip.
If Kaepernick isn’t ready, based on our projected draft position of the bottom half of the first round…I would take the right guy, Harbaugh’s type of guy, if he fell to me.
Harbaugh traded up for Kapernick. What better way to say this is my type of guy?
lol
so if the niners draft in the 20’s kaep is not ready
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Oct 25, 2011 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions
that was my line actually
and it should have read: if Kaep isn’t ready, and based on our current draft position…I’d blah blah blah
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
WR, DB or RG
i think its going to be the best avaliable between RG, WR, and DB with an outside linebacker being a darkhorse for the first round, then each position ultimately being addressed in the following rounds. as an organization the niners are fairly conservative when drafting and like bringing in big bodies, so G David DeCastro from stanford would be a good choice as hes rated as the best guard avaliable, fits a need and has a connection with harbaugh. as far as WR, whos going to be avaliable at the back of the first and who has really earned being there? michael floyd is an option, but considering the fact that the niners only like to draft high character guys, do they touch him after two arrests? Nick Toon, Jeff Fuller, Dwight Jones, all talented and mostly rated in the first round, but id rather see us draft one of them in the second. As far as DB, which is what i see us drafting, is alfonso dennard an injury risk? do we take a shot at cliff harris even though he has character issues? is stefon gilmore still around? If i had to draft the first three rounds now, id have to say 1st is decastro, 2nd is cliff harris if he slips and 3rd is either Dwight Jones or Mohammed Sanu if either of them slip. a lot of information, but this goes back to the terrible season we had last year and all i had to do was study mock drafts
by school of harb knocks on Oct 24, 2011 7:24 PM PDT reply actions
dark horse for olb is not likely. niners only have two good olbs
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Oct 25, 2011 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I like Nick Toon
the guy makes tough catches and has pedigree
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
Pick the best possible athlete
In the first round you pick the best available athlete. That having been said, Alex Smith is not any more talented than he ever was. He is becoming a better technical player, not more talented. He does not see the field that well, often throws at his receivers feet, and does not lead his receivers well. Has he hit a receiver at full stride more than five times all season? Nevertheless, I expect him to start until he is injured and Kaep can prove he can do better.
Yeah, not sure what that guy has been watching
Check out my site!! Sign up for a free account @
The Hometown Fan
There was a few times during the Lions game that his passes sailed and that is due to a breakdown in fundamentals which caused the INT
but the bye week came at a perfect time, to get his footwork back on track
Just gimme two pro bowlers
Any position, any round.
Well, except for kickers, they don’t count!
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Niners Nation
Related FanShots on Niners Nation
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Former high-school star Brian Banks does serious time on trumped-up charge, now hopes for an NFL shot
- Former ‘idiot kicker’ Mike Vanderjagt in trouble after accosting junior-high heckler
- Adrian Peterson blows teammates away in footraces; appears to be on the mend
- UPDATE: Charlie Sheen didn’t buy Lawrence Taylor’s Super Bowl ring
- Alex Smith gets blown up by Jon Beason over Cam Newton comments
