"Elite" Vs. "Game Manager" Misses The Point
by grantmp on Nov 14, 2011 10:31 AM PST
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PrintFooch's Note: Excellent write-up on a topic that has been at the heart of many discussions in recent weeks. Thanks Grant.
In the run-up to the 49ers game vs. the New York Giants, much was made about whether Alex Smith is or is not an "elite" quarterback, partially because players, coaches, and media-types have all noticed that Alex has not been asked to do a lot, and partially because Eli himself has raised the question of what elite quarterback play means in today's NFL. Eli has wanted to claim that he belongs in the same category as Brady, Peyton, Brees and Aaron Rodgers. Most have argued that Alex is not elite because he's a different type of QB--he's a game manager.
What this whole debate has missed is the fact that the fundamental distinction is not between elite QBs and game managers; it's between Artist QBs and Workmanlike QBs. QBs of either type can become elite, depending on how they are used in a system, and how they perform under pressure.
Artist QBs tend to throw more wow throws both because they work with a wider palate of colors (throw options), and because such throws are demanded by the offensive systems they play in. Workmanlike QBs tend to throw throws with lower degrees of difficulty due to arm strength or accuracy limitations; they throw shorter distances and against coverages that motion or play action have made more clearly defined for the quarterback. This is the product of what Greg Cosell (a legendary NFL Films guru and tape-watching fiend) calls the "management and manipulation of the quarterback."
Someone like Eli Manning is more of an artist QB than Alex Smith, but with Artist QBs, the risk of interceptions goes up. Eli is a different kind of QB partially because he has different limitations than Alex (perhaps fewer—that much isn’t totally clear at this point), and because Alex is asked to do much different things for the 49ers. If there has been a throw that has been "artist-like" in Alex’s repertoire, it’s been his throw to Vernon Davis (or, this year, Walker)down the seam, but defenses are always watching for that one and Davis has been doubled on it this year, so we’ve seen it less.
My point in saying all this is that even artist QBs need to "manage the game" in some fashion. This was proven definitively with the way Peyton checked his way down to a Super Bowl ring. This isn’t to say that Peyton is fundamentally a "game manager" type quarterback; he is an artist quarterback, and that very fact forced the Bears to play a simple coverage scheme that made him make throws that even more workmanlike QBs can make.
The post-corner and double-move throws that the Giants constantly have Eli making are difficult to make, and even more difficult to defend. And they can go for big yardage. But I, for one, am happy that the 49ers aren’t asking Alex to make those kinds of throws. As Alex put it "I managed my way to a win." Isn’t Coach Herm right when he says that "YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!" A lot of 49er fans, former players, and media types have said "the Niners need to open up the offense." But isn’t it good coaching to recognize the talents (and limitations) your players have and to put them in positions to succeed? And if your team is succeeding, why change the formula?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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elite quarterbacks find a way to win. period
a quarterback needs to find a way to win on the scoreboard, not in a fantasy league. alex smith is doing that. wins are the only thing that matters.
i posted in the preseason that the niners would go 13-3 and everyone here laughed. the 49ers have made us proud.
to be fair, all the people predicting 13 wins this year
predicted similar results each of the past 4 years.
This season has been incredible, but not predictable.
by whistlingmountain on Nov 14, 2011 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
I take offense sir
this is the first year I have predicted 49ers would go 19-0. Last year I thought we’d go 10-6. We should have gone 10-6. With the Harbadition I felt confident that we’d have a great season.
I predicted 3 wins
Never would I have seen this coming. The defense is just so solid, the offense is actually dependable and our special teams are special. I predicted a three win season, not hoping for it. If I laughed at you, I am sorry. Good call.
3 wins?
You know we play in the NFC West right? We get at least 4 wins by default.
Harbaugh for President
"You know we play in the NFC West right?"
lol… nice.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 10:37 PM PST up reply actions
I said 8-8
Couldn’t be happier I was way wrong.
"The Harbaughcolypse is upon us. No one in the NFL is safe"
technically
you’re not wrong yet . . . . (knock on wood desk)
quarterbacks don't win the game on their own, though.
This is why I didn’t tie the two together rigorously. Wins are a function of the efforts of an entire team. QBs have a ton to do with how successful those efforts are, but they’re not the whole story.
Aaron Rodgers is obviously the most elite artist quarterback in the league, but his defense has been bad enough to barely let him squeak out a couple of victories this year. If he had dropped a couple of those games, we wouldn’t call him any less an artist or any less an elite quarterback.
So far, 2011 has been Harbaugh-some!
Follow @grantmp1
elite quarterbacks...
identify the defense, and audible to the best play… that gains positive yardage. Look at the film, I can’t imagine more than two plays where alex checked out, audbibles, or killed a play that went for a lost of yardage.
This is elite, AleX audibling to the run play to score the touchdown after the turnover…
THAT’S ELITE.
I completely agree!
I don’t remember who said it, but someone on Fox yesterday said that this is now a fantasy driven league, and because Alex doesn’t put up huge fantasy numbers he isn’t seen as that good of a QB. I think this perception goes directly to your point. Alex isn’t the type of QB to put up huge numbers, especially in this system. But he has proven he can win games this year, with the help of a great team and great coaching. And at 8-1, I don’t care how they win the games…I’m just stoked they’re winning them.
by djs9989 on Nov 14, 2011 10:51 AM PST via iPhone app reply actions
I still care how they win
but there was nothing wrong with the win yesterday. It wasn’t ugly, it was great.
During the regular season there are dual goals. One is to win games and make it to the playoffs, the other is to get better and be the best team they can be when they play in the playoffs.
The 49ers have done both this year, they are winning and they are very clearly getting better each week.
This is different than the last few years where they would win an ugly game against a team that just didn’t show up and it would still come down to the wire, and the 49ers would arguably have played worse than the week before. Very unsatisfying.
by whistlingmountain on Nov 14, 2011 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
Troy Aikman said that ...
…and he’s right on the money. I have not been pleased with Alex since we drafted him. I actually wanted to see us get out of that pick in 05. But to be honest, he hasn’t really been coached and schedmed particularly well. Remember all the talk about how much better he was in the “Spread” than from under center???
The kid can play. He needed confidence. Weapons. and Time. He needed stability and he needed a coach who could figure him out.
Is he the best in the business? No. Will Kaep unseat him? Possibly down the road..But right now…he’s shown heart, resiliency, perserverence, and a will to stay in the fight.
I’m ok with that. 8-1 looks pretty good right now.
We'd all be better off if we collectively treated Alex
like he was a 26 year old UDFA last year. Like Weeden is 28 at Oklahoma St.
Just forget the 5 previous years and he’s a 27 year old who’s playing really well, who the team and coaches love, and who handles himself really well.
by whistlingmountain on Nov 14, 2011 10:58 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
God
I was wondering why OKSt QB looked so old.This should be illegal, they should put an age limit <26.
I agree.
We need to keep those people who elected to join the military after high school and are now trying to use their GI Bill to go to college out of NCAA football. All those people who had to defer their dreams of college to support younger siblings? We need to keep them out of football. I’d hate to think some lousy vet or some lame coal miner with better skills was taking some much more deserving 18 year olds spot on a roster. Ban them now!
A fantasy (aka: no defense) driven league
So true. And it goes to your last point…how we’re winning the games. Fans, we’re winning with defense! All of our games are going to seem close- there will always be a chess match, and lots of boring football. This is not the greatest show on turf….its the meanest melee on mud.
If Alex puts up the fantasy football numbers that people wish for, it will be at the risk of our defense. Had we come out and flashed 21 quick points on the board, the Eli show would have taken off a lot sooner. And heck…Eli was really good yesterday. It could have made for a totally different game. But as it was…a low scoring, field position first half, the NYG were sticking to a methodical game plan. It wasn’t until the 2 TD lead that you saw them consistently striking at Culliver and catching the safeties out of position.
Did somebody mention chess again? Hmm, so Harbaugh and Alex can play this too? Smart guys, I'd propose!!!! Any takers?
Enough said above! I can't believe the "t-raiders" are going to play in OUR stadium! Bastards!
by 23mjheart on Nov 14, 2011 12:23 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
You can play FIFA 11 with Ochocinco if you hit him on twittter
If you could actually get at Alex you’d end up playing 19X19 Go.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 14, 2011 6:58 PM PST up reply actions
Alex's most important stat is in the W column...
and even the 1 L was not by his doing
I think mostly it's brought up because it's about ceiling.
That in 1 game scenario just about any QB can out produce just about any other QB, but elite QBs produce great numbers over the long haul. That implies that they overcome mistakes by their line, by their receivers, by their defense. We often retroactively define a QB as elite by them having wins over many years and making multiple playoff runs. In fact, who is a QB that has made 3+ deep playoff runs that isn’t considered elite? Are there any?
Statistically it’s a little more interesting these days because the rules have slanted to the degree that if a QB is aggressive AND good, that they will dictate how the game goes. The defense will be mostly helpless. It’s rare that teams can string together long runs of this though. The Packers basically did it last season, but many a fantastic offense led by an elite QB has crumbled to the dreaded results of an aggressive QB.. on an off day.
Right now, Alex and the 49er offense are only missing the deep ball. If they can get the deep ball working after some more chemistry is developed, then.. well then look out.
by whistlingmountain on Nov 14, 2011 10:52 AM PST reply actions
you're exactly right about the ceiling question determining who we call elite/not-elite
But my point is that that has more to do with who is an artist quarterback and who ends up being a workmanlike quarterback. Jay Cutler has artist-QB tools—a ridiculously high ceiling, but he has played much better this year when he’s been asked to play in a more workmanlike fashion.
So far, 2011 has been Harbaugh-some!
Follow @grantmp1
There are several.
Jim Plunkett is the perfect example. You should check out his stats sometime. They are PATHETIC.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 14, 2011 7:04 PM PST up reply actions
Not true. For the first decade of his career, his numbers were pretty close to average for his league. For the last five, they were well above average. An argument could be made that he had one or two statistically brilliant years when you look at those numbers in the context of his era.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Nov 14, 2011 10:58 PM PST up reply actions
It was a different game.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Nov 14, 2011 10:59 PM PST up reply actions
Yes but compared to today's game. The guy never completed more than 52% of his passes until he was in his 10th season
He has 164 TDs and 198 Ints for a career. For a 2 time SB winning QB. (Granted he won those SBs when he came in off the bench due to injuries)
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 15, 2011 11:54 PM PST up reply actions
You really know nothing of football...
Nothing.
Jim Plunkett resurrected his career in a DIFFERENT ERA (stats ain’t gonna be close to the same), QB’d the Raiders to 2 titles and is a borderline HOFer.
You are the perfect example of this saying:
“Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt”
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 3:04 PM PST up reply actions
He doesn't need to be an elite QB...
..We will settle for “WINNING” QB. That’s the only thing that matters.
Short term, long term though you still want the best play you can get out of the QB position
we don’t need to worry about that question until the off-season really, but it’s getting brought up more and more regardless. people still don’t understand that the 49ers have all the leverage over Alex Smith. They will pay him whatever they want, and he will accept. If they pay him top money, it will be because they don’t want other players on the team getting paid more than the starting QB. My guess is it would be some kind of moderate deal with chance at money by wins, and almost no long-term guarantees.
by whistlingmountain on Nov 14, 2011 10:57 AM PST up reply actions
I'd settle for a winning team.
You really could argue that even Montana started as a workmanlike QB. Same thing with Brady. They obviously both became artist QBs as they gained more confidence and as the team/coaching staff gained more confidence in them and put more responsibility on their shoulders.
So far, 2011 has been Harbaugh-some!
Follow @grantmp1
Montana's Stats (1981)
in todays game would not really be considered elite.
in 1981, he had 19 td’s, 12 int’s, 63% of his passes completed. His average pass completed was only 7.3 yards. Per game he averaged 223 yards. That year the niners went 13-3 and won the Super Bowl.
We dont need an elite quarterback. We need an intelligent quarterback who can make plays when it counts. I am confident we have that in Alex Smith. He’s tough, a hard worker, and someone who the coaching staff obviously respects. What more can we ask of him?
"The year we beat Miami in the Super Bowl, ... do you know how many defensive linemen were in our rotation? Nine, and we used them all quite a bit. We just wore the Dolphins out."
Bill Walsh quote
by Iupati_like_its_1999 on Nov 14, 2011 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
Exactly.
Troy Aikman averaged less than 200 yards passing per game for his career. By comparison, as a Saint, Drew Brees has averaged 296. That’s insane. The Niners approach to the game turns back the clock a bit, and it’s winning, so…awesome!
So far, 2011 has been Harbaugh-some!
Follow @grantmp1
Troy Aikman was kind of overrated, though.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Nov 14, 2011 11:00 PM PST up reply actions
Aikman was able to make throws that Alex hasn't made consistently
He also played for a team that had ridiculous talent on the outside, the offensive line, and in the backfield. His ho-hum stats were partly a product of the era too, though.
It’d be interesting to find out how many plays per game teams were running, on average, at that point, and to see if the inflation of offensive numbers is due to that factor.
So far, 2011 has been Harbaugh-some!
Follow @grantmp1
Emmitt had like 35 carries a game for a while
And Moose Johnson got some too. Troy was better than most of the QBs you see today but due to the nature of their offense he would be a “game manager” today.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 15, 2011 11:57 PM PST up reply actions
Emmitt had 35 carries TWICE in his ENTIRE CAREER
ONCE in the regular season (11/07/1994) and ONCE in the playoffs (01/14/1996).
Had to look that up obviously, but your comment — as usual — sounded like complete BS.
What’s it like to just make stuff up to try and prove your points?
And Moose got 6 carries ONCE in his career (09/04/94). He had 237 attempts in an 11-year CAREER. 237 attempts in 137 career games…
That’s less than 2 CARRIES A GAME…
Yeah, Moose really helped Troy out a lot w/all his carries [rolling eyes]……
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 1:52 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sorry.
I guess you’ve never heard of exaggeration for emphasis also known as hyperbole. And you’re just using carries. He also caught the ball like 55 times in those big years. So his average touches per game IS close to 30.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 16, 2011 9:47 PM PST up reply actions
You're not...
…clever enough to exaggerate for emphasis.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 10:09 PM PST up reply actions
More like you just went and googled it
and learned of it for the first time.
Notice how I said “LIKE 35” – That’s me using a number that’s not really based in fact. Hyperbole. Lol nitwit
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 16, 2011 10:11 PM PST up reply actions
BTW what's it like being a HS freshman team QB that is stuck believing you could have been a contender?
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 16, 2011 10:12 PM PST up reply actions
You had a funny line down below...
…but you’re batting like .042 as far as I can tell.
You have such an overwhelming number of unfunny and unimaginative “clowning” comments, it’s really sad……
And Philip Rivers… Wasn’t he the NFL’s leading passer last year? Why are Alex’s past poor seasons the fault of bad coaching, bad OL play, etc., but Philip Rivers current struggles are not?
That’s a legit question for you. Turn down your retard-throttle for 5 seconds and try and answer it.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 10:35 PM PST up reply actions
Calling people ( Retrad ) is about as classless and tasteless as there is ...
… I had numerous people around my block with this cognitive behavior , it’s a sad and troubling for all those involved , your constant use of the word is offending to me and all those poor souls that had unfortune of being dealt a hand like this …!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ..( .AleX ) was asked , what do you think about all the game manager talk ... AleX i guess i just managed myself a VIctory ... Extend the Man ...!!
It's spelled R - E - T - A - R - D
“Retrad” was close, though. Keep working at it.
Also, don’t rent TROPIC THUNDER if you haven’t watched it already. I don’t think you’d like it.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 17, 2011 1:20 PM PST up reply actions
stop
Both of you need to stop insulting each other. This is childish.
by David Fucillo on Nov 17, 2011 6:37 PM PST up reply actions
Fishhook?
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 17, 2011 6:45 PM PST up reply actions
I hate you because you said positive things about a cowboy
but then, I even have a hard time saying good things about Sanders and Haley (traitors!)
lol
He’s right, though… Aikman was a stud. Emmitt and the supporting cast be damned, Aikman was a SCARY QB to face in his prime.
The ‘94 Title Game, down 21-3, then 28-10, etc… Guy just wouldn’t quit coming back. Even though it was a loss, he totally outplayed Steve Young in that game.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 7:43 PM PST up reply actions
this is why I can't stand "fantasy" teams...
everybody wants the “BIG” stats, I’m a fan of my “REAL” team in the 49ers. I support them 100%, no matter who’s on the field. they have on the RED & GOLD and they have my complete support. and W’s are all that matters to me
The Eagles have put together a fantasy team
and I think we can all agree that its worked out great for them.
Currently satiating my hunger for Kings basketball with a renewed focus on the NINERS
better than the colts fantasy team . . .
fine riding big points from your QB, but if he gets injured you’re screwed
Montana WAS NOT playing in today’s game. Geez.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Nov 14, 2011 10:59 PM PST up reply actions
Hmmm… that may have been your point. It’s not quite explicit.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Nov 14, 2011 11:00 PM PST up reply actions
I didn't think in a million years that I would be writing these words.
But Alex Smith looks to have become a damn fine quarterback. Watching him in the pocket, moving around to find his passing lanes and going through his progression and reads I am very impressed. Alex is playing good smart football and we gotta hand it to him. I should appoligise for all the horrible things I said about him in the past…. He has proven me wrong. Go Alex!
by Natural Red on Nov 14, 2011 10:58 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
You're Not Alone Natural Red
I snarked at him politely, but snarked nonetheless. It used to be that when he went back to pass I would wince, expecting a disaster. Somewhere in the course of the past 4-5 games that changed and now when he fades back I lean forward, expecting something good. That’s the difference for me. I always wished him well because he seems to be a good guy but I just wanted the torture over, for him and us. Now I’m delighted and have a touch of shame.
no one really cares who was right in the end
I know Edggy was on the AleX train for a long time and was among the first for “yah Alex, sign the man” with many jumping on him. I was for Alex but believed that he was gone for his own good (even Smith thought this until Harbaugh bought into him). Lets hear the others that have been for Alex. We know his greatest detractors so there is no need to bring that up. It is easy to say I told you so, but it must feel good to see others finally buying in.
Well mc,
I spent two years beating on the guy and his fans so this is just an acknowledgment of the fine quality of play that we are seeing from Alex.
by Natural Red on Nov 14, 2011 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
good for owning up to it
I’m saying that you were not the only one. I would rather put the spotlight on the few that did have faith in him. Ronaldinho was also a firm supporter. Who are the others? If you were one lets hear it.
I was and...
always have been an Alex supporter always saying he needed an offensive coach he got one n look how good he’s playing!!!
by Ninersincebirth82 on Nov 14, 2011 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
Supporter
Never thought he had a fair shot at becoming a good qb. 7 years of bad luck maybe? I also didnt think he was the reason for the 49ers demise. He was always a scapegoat for our crappy team and coaches. Having said that, I also thought after last season that it would be better for the Niners, and Alex, to finally move on. I didn’t know how the fan base would react to him playing again at Candlestick. Boy, I was wrong about that. Its amazing to see good things finally happening for a guy that truly deserves it.
"The year we beat Miami in the Super Bowl, ... do you know how many defensive linemen were in our rotation? Nine, and we used them all quite a bit. We just wore the Dolphins out."
Bill Walsh quote
by Iupati_like_its_1999 on Nov 14, 2011 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
I always have been!
Check out my sig. I’ve had that Facebook group going since I think April. :)
Always been an Alex Smith supporter, and always will be. He’s a genuinely nice guy, very humble, loves football, plays for the team and not for himself, and has been through so much bullsh*t here but he continues to believe and stick around.
The guy has balls the size of Gibraltar. “Nobody flinched. Nobody got scared.” That sums up Alex. Oh, and…
“Clutch! Clutch!”
Alex Smith Will Win a Superbowl
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Alex-Smith-Will-Win-a-Superbowl/205058042848290
Don't feel too bad, NR...
Quite a few of the Alex’s fans [cough…itburnzwhenipeeftgambit…cough], quite a few of them deserved it and STILL deserve it.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
Hey McWagner, I've always supported Alex! Anyone that can graduate college can't be very dumb and he didn't take basketweaving either! Bring on that chess game sir! I still relate that story to people, lest they forget it!
Enough said above! I can't believe the "t-raiders" are going to play in OUR stadium! Bastards!
by 23mjheart on Nov 14, 2011 12:32 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Whoops!! *graduate in 3 years!!!
Enough said above! I can't believe the "t-raiders" are going to play in OUR stadium! Bastards!
by 23mjheart on Nov 14, 2011 12:35 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Well being the classy individual I am... Let me be the first to tell the Alex detractors
I TOLD YOU SO
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 14, 2011 7:10 PM PST up reply actions
^Hard-core pro Alex guy
I publicly clowned the idiots calling for Carr in person at a bar here in Sacramento. Then continued to mock them by calling for Carr while he stunk it up.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 14, 2011 7:12 PM PST up reply actions
Very good
Anyone chanting for Carr ought to have to reprove themselves as “fans.”
But I suppose the punishment of having been wrong, and not being able to enjoy our current success as much, is enough. After all, this season has been THAT much more awesome for us true fans who stuck by #11 through thick-and-thin.
Alex Smith Will Win a Superbowl
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Alex-Smith-Will-Win-a-Superbowl/205058042848290
lol
I love comments like this…
Dude… Are you happy that the 49ers are winning or simply happy that you get to say “I told you so”?
Bragging about “publicly clowning” people… God that’’s just so sad.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 15, 2011 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
Considering they are the morons calling for Carr
yes I’m glad I publicly shamed moron fans. Were you calling for him I’d have yelled it in your face too.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 15, 2011 11:59 PM PST up reply actions
Oh and I'm doubly happy. We're winning BECAUSE of Alex
and the idiots that drove him away thereby almost prevented us winning. So me being right means my opinion helped steer the franchise in the right direction. Whereas the opinion of people like you almost sunk our franchise back into suckage.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 16, 2011 12:02 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, it was MY OPINIONS...
…that had this team tanking since 2002.
[looks around the room]
Sorry ’bout that everybody… My bad.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
I don't require apologies from the softly retarded
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 16, 2011 9:50 PM PST up reply actions
"Softly" retarded...?
Well… I guess you would be the one who understands the subtle nuances and class/caste-system that exists within the retard community…
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 10:12 PM PST up reply actions
Indeed. I used to spend my time convincing them to fight each other then organizing the betting.
Gotta know how to manipulate people like you.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 16, 2011 10:14 PM PST up reply actions
Well-played... lol
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 10:28 PM PST up reply actions
retard
Stop using that word. It is offensive to a lot of people.
by David Fucillo on Nov 17, 2011 6:38 PM PST up reply actions
[rolling eyes]
Censorship? Really?
lol…
okay… So I’ll say “Fishhook” now whenever I mean the…“R” word.
And dont’ anybody say “fart”. I find that gross & offensive.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 17, 2011 6:44 PM PST up reply actions
(my 9-year old thinks the "fart" line was funny!)
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 17, 2011 6:55 PM PST up reply actions
I never criticized him publicly
but inside I though it was hopeless. I thought it’d be better for him and the organization that he leaves for greener pastures. I was even obsessed with the rookie QBs since I thought they will play by mid season.
Alex is playing great...
LTD talk is now starting to NOT seem that far-fetched (though it’s not close to being d “done deal” as many might think; 7 games + playoffs to go, lots can happen).
He’s playing smart, DECISIVE as hell, fast, accurrate, and he just seems to have complete COMMAND of this offense. I’ve never seen this guy as good or as confident as he was vs the NYG on Sunday.
But it’s still OK to criticize parts of his game.
He’s playing very well. Absolutely somewhere in the top-10 in the NFL right now. But criticism’s still valid. I see the guy still struggle w/finding space WITHIN the pocket when he slides around buying time. He’s DOING A GREAT JOB being decisive, feeling the initial pressure, and using his legs to get outside the pocket to create plays w/both his arm and his feet. But inside the pocket, he still steps up INTO pressure as often as sliding away from it.
But that’s pretty much all I got right now… Crazy. Guy’s playing great and I think the lack of plays being made downfield is NOT on him. Simply not something that has developed yet within the offense as a whole.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 15, 2011 11:41 AM PST up reply actions
It means a lot coming from a guy like you, but...
… I’ll know that Alex has made it big only when I see Since79 say it.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Nov 14, 2011 11:01 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think he has made a comment
since he wrote that it was time to play Kaepernick and everyone laughed at him
One day, one day...just once, though
I’d like to see him have a lights-out game where it’s like he can’t miss. Where receivers make every grab, where he gets to enjoy multiple TD passes (3+), where he’s rarely, if ever, sacked.
Mostly, for Alex…but also to show the world he can do it.
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
Patience please great writer Tre9er! Recall the just scratching the surface recurring theme the players keep repeating!
Btw, even when we do finally get close to using most of the playbook near playoff time (maybe anyway), coach still sends DVDs to his Dad to evaluate, thus creating more ideas/questions and things to work on! I’m so curious how the game with Baltimore will go, yet refuse to overlook the Cardinals this week! Your thoughts are…???
Enough said above! I can't believe the "t-raiders" are going to play in OUR stadium! Bastards!
by 23mjheart on Nov 14, 2011 12:41 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I hate the word "elite"
the word “elite” conjures up images of Peyton Manning selling car insurance and Eli Manning selling watches on TV. The Artist / Workman comparison is more fitting. As implied in the article, the best QBs are either Artists or Workmen, but can become the other when the situation requires…
Eli's watch ads
Yesterday I saw a ‘lifesize’ cardboard advertisement of Eli selling watches. Since I had my Patrick Willis jersey all fresh and ready to lead us to victory, I had no choice but to knock it down in front of thousands of adoring fans…at the supermarket.
now that’s fantasy football.
by t p on Nov 14, 2011 11:31 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
You've Just Become My Anonymous Hero
Did anyone catch it on video?
haha....
I hope not. Surely the folks at Fred Meyer don’t take too kindly to imitation linebackers running amok in their stores.
by t p on Nov 14, 2011 11:55 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
as long as it wasn't
helmet to helmet…
"One game at a time. Let's just keep it rolling." Justin Smith
funny...well done sir!
Kind of predicted what happened in the game too. Willis Owned yesterday.
No doubt in my mind who the best LB in the league is right now.
"The year we beat Miami in the Super Bowl, ... do you know how many defensive linemen were in our rotation? Nine, and we used them all quite a bit. We just wore the Dolphins out."
Bill Walsh quote
by Iupati_like_its_1999 on Nov 14, 2011 12:10 PM PST up reply actions
Lol! Great job sir! I'm remembering a song about another one bites the dust!
Enough said above! I can't believe the "t-raiders" are going to play in OUR stadium! Bastards!
by 23mjheart on Nov 14, 2011 12:45 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Great song!
If you check my predictions in the Prediction Contest, you’ll see that lately I’ve taken to Hyper-linking the name of the opposing team. The link takes you to this video. The 643 dislikes do make me wonder if roving death squads are really such a bad idea. They almost definitely are, but still, it makes you wonder.
"Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer "extortion." The "X" makes it sound cool." - Bender Bending Rodriguez
Eleanor Rigby - "Greatest Song" or "The Greatest Song"?
Dobbs is some kind of Young/Smith/Roosevelt hybrid, and will absolutely ruin the NFL experience for the other 31 teams and their few fans.
Why can't he be an elite game manager?
I don’t see why “elite” and “game manager” need to be separate; if he’s the best game manager in the game today, then surely he must be an elite game manager.
---
Revenge is ice cream.
Agree completely
Although he needs to do it for a longer period of time with consistency to become an “elite” anything. Over this season he has been the best game manager in football.
Rays in '08.... Desmond Jennings - the breakout continues.....
by youALREADYknow on Nov 14, 2011 11:15 AM PST up reply actions
The "he" in the sentence is a rhetorical device.
It’s meant to be any quarterback, who are all men the last time I checked.
---
Revenge is ice cream.
Smith
Has exceeded all expectations for this year. I am really proud to have that guy as a Niner. Hes become this good in a very short amount of time, without a full off season, and limited time learning the playbook. Imagine how good he can be next year with full command of the offense and more time under Roman and Harbaugh.
"The year we beat Miami in the Super Bowl, ... do you know how many defensive linemen were in our rotation? Nine, and we used them all quite a bit. We just wore the Dolphins out."
Bill Walsh quote
by Iupati_like_its_1999 on Nov 14, 2011 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
This!!!^ ^
For the rest of you wanting to debate Alex as some “elite” QB? What? 8-1! 4 fourth quarter comebacks! Enough said! Couldn’t give a crap about what anyone says, especially the media! Keep disrespecting us, we adore these insults!!!
Enough said above! I can't believe the "t-raiders" are going to play in OUR stadium! Bastards!
by 23mjheart on Nov 14, 2011 12:51 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
All we really have to do to appreciate this season, and Alex
is remember this…
"The year we beat Miami in the Super Bowl, ... do you know how many defensive linemen were in our rotation? Nine, and we used them all quite a bit. We just wore the Dolphins out."
Bill Walsh quote
by Iupati_like_its_1999 on Nov 14, 2011 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
I think Tom Brady is an elite game manager
he doesn’t make the wow throws the same way Rodgers or Brees do, his drives are more systemic and manageable.
I think Brady was once more of a game manager...especially earlier in his career...
but the way that offense is designed now, SO MUCH depends on Brady’s unique talents, I don’t think you can claim that now.
So far, 2011 has been Harbaugh-some!
Follow @grantmp1
Brady, Reothlisberger and Eli all won super bowls as managers
and in Reothlisberger’s case, not even managing all that well.
by whistlingmountain on Nov 14, 2011 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
Yep. People forget how bad Roethlisberger was in that first Super Bowl.
People remember Trent Dilfer as the only “game manager” QB to win in the 2000’s. Both he and Roethlisberger benefited from excellent running games and defenses.
So far, 2011 has been Harbaugh-some!
Follow @grantmp1
the funniest thing about the Dilfer thing is
Brad Johnson won one the next year as a game manager and is a much more apt comparison to what Alex is doing right now. Dilfer was a bad QB that team had major issues.
by whistlingmountain on Nov 14, 2011 1:14 PM PST up reply actions
Dilfer was a terrible QB who managed to have his merely bad years at the right time.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Nov 14, 2011 11:03 PM PST up reply actions
You're right about Brad Johnson
I’d actually forgotten about him myself!
So far, 2011 has been Harbaugh-some!
Follow @grantmp1
Dilfer wasn't "Terrible"; Johnson was "Good"
Don’t be revisionist historians.
Dilfer made a Pro Bowl and QB’d a Super Bowl winner. He was far less than what you want w/a high draft pick, but he was absolutely not “terrible”.
Brad Johnson made 2 Pro Bowls, won a Super Bowl, and had some very good statistical years in Minnesota. He was a solid NFL QB who could have had an even better career had not injuries always plagued him.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 15, 2011 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
Both of those guys were workmanlike QBs.
Also, the fact that Pittsburgh won the first Super Bowl in spite of Roethlisberger rather than because of him is incontrovertible.
So far, 2011 has been Harbaugh-some!
Follow @grantmp1
Agree...
…though Johnson was arguably better than “workmanlike” in TB’s Super Bowl season and DEFINITELY better than that in Minnesota.
Roethlisberger completely STUNK IN UP in Pittsburgh’s SB win over Seattle. TOTALLY AGREE w/you on that.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
he made some pretty wow throws yesterday
"The year we beat Miami in the Super Bowl, ... do you know how many defensive linemen were in our rotation? Nine, and we used them all quite a bit. We just wore the Dolphins out."
Bill Walsh quote
by Iupati_like_its_1999 on Nov 14, 2011 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
Yes! This was my point in writing the post!
It’s crucial that coaches and QBs be on the same page. We saw this with Sean Payton and Drew Brees this year. The Saints likely wouldn’t have lost the game against the Bucs if Payton’s leg hadn’t gotten broken in the middle of the game.
Good coaching can make a huge difference for how well a QB performs on a Sunday; if a coach can call plays that make the cues for the quarterback easy to read, the QB will throw fewer interceptions and the offense as a whole will function better.
So far, 2011 has been Harbaugh-some!
Follow @grantmp1
Like Montana and Walsh
Belichick and Brady, Payton and Brees, maybe even Rodgers and McCarthey. Favre would have been the greatest if he listened to Holmgren. Maybe that is the struggle with other top tier quarterbacks is that they are not in line with their coach’s methods. Smith and Harbaugh seem like they are hitting it off.
It's not out of the question that Alex could get there...
but after 7 years of him not getting there, it’s pretty tempting to think that we’ve seen his ceiling and that it’s not that much higher than it is now.
I’m a bit afraid that Alex will take us to the playoffs and we’ll lose in the 1st round just as the Falcons did last year.
Still, I still can’t believe the 2011 49ers are 8-1, and that I get the chance to speculatively complain about a team that could end up having a 1st-round bye
So far, 2011 has been Harbaugh-some!
Follow @grantmp1
why is it that evrybody thinks that Alex is at his ceiling...?
this is the first time that the #1 pick has a chance to “grow” within an intelligent system, and to achieve his real potential
THIS
- is just getting started.
Alex Smith Will Win a Superbowl
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Alex-Smith-Will-Win-a-Superbowl/205058042848290
#11 is just getting started..
Alex Smith Will Win a Superbowl
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Alex-Smith-Will-Win-a-Superbowl/205058042848290
It really is
mindboggling Mr Grant. 9-1 next!
"One game at a time. Let's just keep it rolling." Justin Smith
+1 about Favre and Holmgren
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 15, 2011 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
Yep! A QB that played relatively close in the new NFL who knows the position better than any of us, let alone his pedigree, is doing his best thru Alex! No more capital X people! :)
Enough said above! I can't believe the "t-raiders" are going to play in OUR stadium! Bastards!
by 23mjheart on Nov 14, 2011 12:58 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Funny the hypocrisy that exists (both in the media and on this forum)
Alex Smith is a game manager (I actually agree with this) because he relies on a run-first offensive attack, doesn’t throw deep very often, and is efficient but unspectacular in the passing game. He wins by completing high percentages on short passes, the occasional big play out of play action and heavy sets, maintains long drives, and doesn’t turn the ball over.
Meanwhile, Andrew Luck is the best QB in a generation (obviously I disagree with this) while he relies on a run-first offensive attack, doesn’t throw deep very often, and is efficient but unspectacular in the passing game. He wins by completing high percentages on short passes, the occasional big play out of play action and heavy sets, maintains long drives, and doesn’t turn the ball over.
Nothing like the typical media-driven hypocrisy. It’s disgusting.
There are different types of QB’s that exist. You wouldn’t draft Alex Smith at #1 overall if given another chance, but most teams in the NFL would gladly take his performance this year at the QB position. He’s a winner and that’s all we should care about for now.
Rays in '08.... Desmond Jennings - the breakout continues.....
by youALREADYknow on Nov 14, 2011 11:14 AM PST reply actions
The biggest issue.....
…is that while everyone wants to have an opinion on everything, most people don’t watch nearly enough football to have valid opinions. Its a complicated sport and its hard to nail down accurate assessments even if you’re watching a game closely. So instead, there are a small number of very influential opinion-makers (who may or may not watch games closely or intelligently, but sure know how to sound smart and connected), and a huge world of fans and other pundits that just repeat those opinions.
95% of the people saying Luck this and Luck that, or Smith this and Smith that, had no idea what they were talking about, just repeating conventional wisdom and trying to sound smart.
by Stoned Slacker on Nov 14, 2011 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
I agree to disagree sir! Every QB in this league is a game manager! And yes! I would still want Alex drafted #1!!!!
Enough said above! I can't believe the "t-raiders" are going to play in OUR stadium! Bastards!
by 23mjheart on Nov 14, 2011 1:04 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Fooch made that (very valid) point a month ago...
Every QB in the league is indeed a “game manager.”
And good point. Stoned Slacker… Even EXPERTS get it wrong if they don’t see enough w/their own eyes.
For example, Phil Simms — love him or hate him — he knows his s***. But he’s DEAD WRONG about Luck’s ability to spin it. Luck has a HOSE. He’s 6-4 235 and I’ve seen him throw the ball nearly 60 yards in the air ON A LINE.
Stanford doesn’t push the ball down the field much so Luck doesn’t make too many of those throws. He also throws soft, catchable passes (ala Bill Walsh’s rec to Simms when he worked him out prior to the draft in ’79… the irony) w/a lot of touch.
Simms (and others) might not see the arm strength, doesn’t mean it isn’t there.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 15, 2011 2:57 PM PST up reply actions
Luck is so overrated its hilarious
No he can’t spin it like Barkley or Jones. He throws 5 yard passes that the excellent TEAM at Stanford turns into 15 yard gains. He throws a floaty mid-range ball that will get picked left and right in the pros.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 16, 2011 12:04 AM PST up reply actions
Why Didn't You Make Up Stats to Further Support Your Bullsh*t Point?
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 1:59 PM PST up reply actions
Will he
be like Montana or Young? No. He is Alex Smith and he showing what he can do under the right type of coaching. I think that it showed alot of character for him to come back to this team after the way he had been treated and used by the previous coaching staffs. He is doing a good job at getting the job done. Would I like to see him put up big numbers? Yes. But he is not that type of quaterback, in my book and “elite” QB is a leader, leads his team to wins even if he isn’t putting up huge number every week. Jut let Alex be Alex and win the games.
Man, i sure wish alex had this coaching staff is rookie year.
Although hes been in the league for awhile he still a young qb. And im exited to see what he can develop into in the next couple years.
I think, essentially, there are four types of quarterbacks:
Game managers, who do whatever it takes to win, even if it’s inglorious and ugly; gunners, who love the sling the ball out there on the deep (and highly difficult) passes and therefore get picked off more than their less pass-happy peers; runners, who are always looking for an excuse to use their own feet on a play to gain yardage; and sharpshooters, who love the high-percentage pass and will take those as often as possible. I think, instinctively, they are four different types of personalities, and while players can evolve from one category into another, ultimately, they generally start in just one.
For example, Bret Favre would be considered a gunner; he loves his deep passes, regardless of his own accuracy, and holds both the touchdown and interceptions titles. Somebody like Brady or Rodgers, however, are more along the lines of sharpshooters, with their high career touchdown-/yards-to-interceptions ratios. Meanwhile there are guys like Alex Smith, who doesn’t seem to show any real preference for either passing or running, but can do either when asked of him, and will do so in order to extend drives, though not always successfully. And then there’s Jeff Garcia, who, given the chance, would scramble on any given play.
To me, a system that simply categorizes QBs into two types seems simplistic; then again, I created a four-type model, so I might just be biased.
---
Revenge is ice cream.
by HaikenEdge on Nov 14, 2011 11:36 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
That's okay
Just keep managing your game “watching” schedule the way that you have been. Much appreciated sir!
"One game at a time. Let's just keep it rolling." Justin Smith
I think this makes sense, good comment.
"Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer "extortion." The "X" makes it sound cool." - Bender Bending Rodriguez
Eleanor Rigby - "Greatest Song" or "The Greatest Song"?
Dobbs is some kind of Young/Smith/Roosevelt hybrid, and will absolutely ruin the NFL experience for the other 31 teams and their few fans.
Favre has a VERY GOOD td / int ratio
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 15, 2011 3:17 PM PST up reply actions
127:84, or 1 int for every 1.51 TD over his career.
How exactly is that a very good ratio? Compare Favre’s ratio to Aaron Rodgers (23:7, or 1 int for every 3.28 TDs), Peyton Manning (428:217, or 1 int to 1.97 TDs), or Tom Brady (291:119, or 1 Int to 2.45 TDs).
---
Revenge is ice cream.
C'mon...
A 1.5 to 1 ratio of TD / INT is very good… Especially on a team that throws a ton. Especially if you’re throwing a lot of TD passess. Never had a coach complain — EVER — w/1.5 to 1 TDs to INTs.
True… 2 to 1 or better is off-the-charts good. But you know as well as I do, Favre’s career stats are skewed more than a bit by several high INT seasons. For the majority of his career, he was more than acceptable when it came to protecting the football vs productivity.
TDs / INTs
18 / 13 in 1992
33 / 14 in 1994
38 / 13 in 1995
39 / 13 in 1996
35 / 16 in 1997
31 / 23 in 1998
32 / 15 in 2001
27 / 16 in 2002
32 / 21 in 2003
30 / 17 in 2004
28 / 15 in 2007
33 / 7 in 2009
I’m not tallying them up, but those totals are certainly much better than 1.5 to 1.
Had Favre not been such an egotistical prick, had Holmgren stayed in GB and kept him more “reigned” in, he might have had a career that enabled him to be the GOAT.
As it stands, for all his accomplishments, I’d say he underachieved. Still, give him his due, he was one of the best who ever played and he was not an INT-machine who couldn’t read coverage. That’s just patently NOT TRUE.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
You can't discount his poor passing seasons and then use those stats to prove your point.
Yes, Favre has had many good passing seasons, but ultimately, the reason I categorize him as a gunner is because he loves his deep passes, even when forcing them into traffic, particularly if you watch him towards the end of his career.
Look, I’m not saying Favre isn’t a great player (he definitely is), but within the categories I set up, his style of play has him as a gunner. That’s to say, he’s an elite gunner, so he’s had many good seasons, but the seasons where he’s thrown poorly only further illustrate his desire to throw the long ball.
---
Revenge is ice cream.
Wasn't arguing that he's not a "gunner"...
We don’t disagree — I don’t care much for labels — I was only making the point earlier that Favre’s rep as a guy who couldn’t read coverage or play within a system is not altogether accurate.
I think I list 12 seasons. He also had a few 50 / 50 ratio years I think, a 20 / 16 year, and his 19 / 24 year two. Those weren’t awful. So what are we left with? His 11 / 19 final year and a couple of 25+ INT years.
My points is merely that if you watched him closely last year, and you watched him closely throughout his career, BUNCHES of INT’s came late in seasons and late in games that were already lost. He had a 6 or 7 INT game against the Rams in the playoffs one year that was just ridiculous (but if memory serves, maybe 4 of those picks came late in the game after the outcome was already decided).
Not excusing Favre - careless is careless and reckless is reckless - just saying he didn’t play like that the MAJORITY of the time. If we’re using labels, he was both of MANAGER and a GUNNER at the same time during roughly 67% of his career.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 7:52 PM PST up reply actions
...and Favre had a few bad INT years...
…but he seldom had what I would term a “bad passing year”.
Guy didn’t miss the postseason party that often (though he should have accomplished more, I absolutely grant that).
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 7:55 PM PST up reply actions
I guess playing on teams with Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman, Robert Brooks and good offensive lines
didn’t contribute to making those good teams
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 16, 2011 9:58 PM PST up reply actions
So what's your point, Mr. Unochromosomo?
Are Joe and Steve somewhat reduced because they played w/Jerry, Roger, Dwight, TO, etc, etc?
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 10:14 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not exactly sure where you're getting the, "He can't read coverage" part from.
I never said he couldn’t read coverage, just that, due to his interception stats, he would be better classified (within my system) as a gunner rather than a sharpshooter.
You’ve created a strawman argument; I don’t care if he can or can’t read coverage, I just know he likes to throw those long passes. Whether he can read coverage or not isn’t what the system I wrote about cares about, but how a player chooses to play, ie, a player who prefers high-percentage passes is a sharpshooter, a player who likes to air it out regardless the consequences is a gunner.
---
Revenge is ice cream.
My apologies...
I’m not implying YOU SAID that… Er, maybe I AM implying that, but it’s not intentional. ;D I read thru the post, read your comment, wrote what I wrote…
Look, if you’re really into your 4 classifications of QB thing, great. It’s got it’s merit and I see where you’re going w/it. I’m merely speaking — in general — to a point Stoned Slacker’s made far more eloquently than I:
Let’s look at all this stuff in context, not just evaluate a bunch of cumulative numbers.
Again, if you care about it…great. I personally couldn’t care less about calling someone a sharpshooter or a gunner or a whatever. Brett Favre took his chances, but he checked it down plenty. He had a good TD to INT ratio over the bulk of his career (it was PHENOMENAL for almost half his career). He had a good completion % and was a pretty darn accurrate passer.
I think classifying a guy in a very broad way is fine, but arguing about whether or not a QB was one thing or the other is stupid in my opinion. For example, I think Troy Aikman could have put up Dan Marino type numbers had he played in a different system. I don’t get wrapped up in stats. I draw conclusions from WHAT I SEE.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 11:25 PM PST up reply actions
And before you get all riled up...
I’m not saying YOU just look at numbers, but a lot of people do… For example, in this thread somewhere, someone compared Michael Vick’s total turnovers this year w/Blaine Gabbert’s. Obviously they don’t watch them play, as that’s an Apples to Oranges comparison.
QBs are typically capable of being a helluva lot more than just one thing. The system plays a part, the coaching plays a part, the talent around them plays a part, the competition plays a part, etc, etc, etc. Really hard to guage the abilities or nature of a QB simply by their cumulative stats.
Phil Simms and Troy Aikman for example. Those dudes would have KILLED had they played for the 49ers or other teams that threw the ball more aggressively.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 11:32 PM PST up reply actions
Oh, I agree with you
But stats is generally one of the few ways arguments can be made legitimately, because they’re not anecdotal evidence, but hard evidence.
I’m the guy who doesn’t watch football games, because the teams I like always lose when I do, but when we lived together, my father would watch them, and he’d keep me apprised as to how games were going. Yes, Bret Favre was a great quarterback (despite how much I despise him as a person) who had many a great seasons, but towards the end of his career, when he seemed to really buy into his own hype, my father would watch his games and take pleasure in telling me, even if Favre’s team was winning, that he (Favre) owed him (my father) X (usually one or two) interceptions for the game, and lo and behold, Favre would almost certainly deliver those interceptions.
While it’s true that players are constrained by the systems they play for, I still think that, ultimately, a player’s personality and style will come through when you look at how they play, ie, Garcia, Vick, Manning.
As for categorization, yes, it’s somewhat foolish to try to lump everybody into groups, but without doing so, it becomes difficult to compare anybody at all. I simply like my system better than the “Artist” versus “Workhorse” model provided by the original poster, which was why I posted mine; if a better method of classifying quarterbacks were to be created, I’d gladly use that, but to me, it just seems saying a quarterback is an artist or a workman makes no sense, because, to me, such a method of categorization fails to take in how the players themselves are.
---
Revenge is ice cream.
lol...
Arguing football and quarterbacking WITHOUT watching the games?
;D
Gotta love the net…!
Favre almost certainly did NOT always deliver the INTs late in his career. 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2007, 2009 were 182 TDs to 91 INTs (exactly 2:1 which is phenomenal).
And then you lose sight of CONTEXT… 2005 & 2006 were down years for the Packers where Favre threw a ton of late season INTs after GB was already out of the playoff hunt. 2008 was a season w/the Jets, new team, new system, injury, etc.
Was Brett a gunslinger? Sure… But you don’t watch the games by your own admission and you’re intentionally or unintentionally failing to look at his career and stats in the proper CONTEXT to support your classification system.
This is just an insignificant blog, but the type of “arguing” you display leads to a lot of flawed and misguided beliefs. Say I want to lump a GROUP OF PEOPLE into a category and I tell you “Watch this, this is what will happen”. Then, without any CONTEXT, THIS happens and you assume my original idea was correct.
Favre did indeed SOMETIMES throw those INTs your Dad talked about. But a lot of times he DIDN’T. Your failing to recognize that and you’re not factoring in the CONTEXT in which some of those INTs were thrown in the first place.
How again is it that your going IN DEPTH w/QB classifications without actually watching much of the QBs your trying to classify?
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 17, 2011 7:37 AM PST up reply actions
You're not "classifying" Favre...
…you’re stereotyping him.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 17, 2011 7:47 AM PST up reply actions
I've watched games, past tense.
I just don’t watch them anymore because the teams I want to win end up losing. No, he didn’t often throw out those interceptions, but it did it often enough.
Context is irrelevant to the argument I’m making; the argument I’m making is target selection and you’re getting hung up on context, which I feel is being used to excuse a player for his own nature, which is what I’m trying to categorize in the first place. I’m arguing that Favre wasn’t one who relied on the high-percentage pass, and even though his risky passes tended to work out of him due to his skill in placing the ball where it needed to go, it doesn’t change the fact that his pass selection is what I’m basing the categorization on, and I’m only using his TD/Int ratio as a way to show this; perhaps completion-to-interception or attempts-to-interception ratios would be more appropriate of the point?
Look, I’m not sure what we’re even arguing about? (I’m presuming, my use statistics?) If so, then I apologize for choosing the wrong statistics to use as evidence, but ultimately, it’s my believe that he’s a gunner, possibly one of the best gunners ever, but he’s still a gunner.
---
Revenge is ice cream.
No apologies...
We’re just talkin’ ball… ;D
I would say that I don’t think context is EVER irrelevant to ANY DISCUSSION.
And Favre? Yeah, he WAS a Gunner. And a Manager… And a Runner, and a Sharpshooter. He did all those things in varying degrees throughout his degree. The only way you CAN pigeonhole him into one of your categories IS TO IGNORE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF CONTEXT.
How would you classify Steve Young? Runner? Sharp Shooter? Manager? Etc?
As I type this, I"m realizing it’s really impossible to classify what a QB is in anything more than a broad generalization (one that is typically so broad that it becomes almost meaningless and purposeless to categorize them as such in the first place).
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 17, 2011 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
He doesn't know what he's talking about dude.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 16, 2011 9:51 PM PST up reply actions
Elite physically skilled Q.B. is....
*one who has arm strength to make every NFL throw, short,medium, long.
*has hign accuracy percentage
*Can lead team to 4th quarter come backs
*When necessary, can Win games without a run game.
*Can make a positive with his arm or legs out of a broken play.
*Reads defenses like the back of his hand.
- Plays the biggest in Big games
*Has total control in the huddle
*Year after year has a winning record
So how many of the above can Alex check off?
Montana is out with arm strength
Marino would be out for big games, Elway used the run game, Manning out with broken plays. Favre out with reading defenses. Its hard to be perfect in every aspect. Even for the greatest players ever to wear a helmet.
by mcwagner on Nov 14, 2011 12:00 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
rec'd!
Each player has weaknesses…except maybe for Aaron Rodgers.
So far, 2011 has been Harbaugh-some!
Follow @grantmp1
They won the Super Bowl.
So I think he’s doing fine.
Joe and Steve got KO’d more than their fare share and they weren’t too bad as I recall ;D
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 2:40 PM PST up reply actions
Rodgers has the concussion bug.
I can’t wait till we get ahold of him and send him to the same place Javhid Best is at. The end of the line for his career.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 14, 2011 7:19 PM PST up reply actions
You are such an idiot...
“I can’t wait till we get ahold of him and send him to the same place Javhid Best is at.”
;- /
Just a straight-up moron…
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 15, 2011 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
Awwwww
poor baby. Did somebody drive you face first into the turf when you were a freshman in HS? Is that why you never panned out as an elite QB like you seem to like to believe you were?
Get the cart! Merlin Olsen ain’t getting up!
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 16, 2011 12:07 AM PST up reply actions
Wow... Such great "clowning"......
How will I ever [yawn] recover…?
Your razor sharp intellect is on full display.
God… You really just hurt me so deeply w/your wor…… [nodding off… ZZZZZZ……]
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 2:37 PM PST up reply actions
wow
did he sleep with your mom or kick your dog? And yes, those two things are equally evil. Read the last two comments and decided that he must have done something worse that the average blogger . . .
Actually...
He slept w/my dog and kicked my Mom.
(ba-duhm bum, thankyouverymuch…)
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 8:00 PM PST up reply actions
Your dog slept with your mom while I broadcast it on the internet.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 16, 2011 10:00 PM PST up reply actions
Then I gave them both a swift kick in the ass
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 16, 2011 10:01 PM PST up reply actions
[shaking my head]
See… You just killed (not in a good way) my joke that WASN’T even funny in the first place.
How very retard of you.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 10:17 PM PST up reply actions
Elway didn’t just use the run game – he was actually one of the most proficient running QBs in history.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Nov 14, 2011 11:05 PM PST up reply actions
lol... Favre isn't OUT w/reading defenses
:-)
C’mon…
Favre might be out because he was a selfish, prima dona a-hole and and would chuck it downfield simply ‘cause I’m-Brett-Effin’-Favre-and-I-Effin’-Feel-Like-Chuckin’-it!!!
But he was one of the all-time greats… He could read a defense w/the best of ’em.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 15, 2011 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
positives with his arm on a broken play
this is the one that i see as the next step for alex. when the play breaks down he’s more inclined to take the sack or run or throw it away. too many years of forcing bad passes.
i hope, with harb, that alex is learning a thing or two about making the good throw downfield on the run. and, i think, as alex is starting to get more comfortable taking off, he’ll be able to see patterns in the way coverage breaks down once the QB steps from the pocket.
There are 25 or so teams
That would Smith right now with his 8-1 record. He’s playing really smart football and other turning the ball over. He’s completing 64 % of his passes. He is finding ways to win in the fourth quarter.
Alex is our qb, and has been for 7 years. Alex always had it in him, it just needed the perfect marriage with a hc that believed in him and can set him how for success
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
by EcERyda69 on Nov 14, 2011 12:04 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Of those 25 or so teams that would Alex Smith
How many of them would use him the right way?
---
Revenge is ice cream.
Rodgers is the best right now and that is undisputed. I would say Brees is 2. In an off year, I have Brady as number 3. Stafford was 4 but is breaking down at an alarming rate so I would put Eli there instead. Roethlisberger is 5. Romo and Shaub are getting better so they fight for 6 and 7. Then I have Smith close behind them with Cutler contesting. Then comes Stafford who needs to settle down rounding out my top ten. Ryan, Flacco, and even Rivers miss out.
Eli threw 25 INTs last year though
I don’t see how he can enter any discussion of best QBs until he establishes a better track record…….to me he’s exactly the same as Romo – capable of dominant play, but hasn’t put it together long enough to be in the upper echelon. I’d still take Vick any day over most of those guys mentioned.
by Stoned Slacker on Nov 14, 2011 1:08 PM PST up reply actions
Vick and Smith haven't shown any sustained consistency....
Vick has one good season in his career and folded when the team needed him to step it up. Smith is only showing consistancy for the first time in his career right now. To throw out Romo and Eli for consistency issues and include Vick or Smith is wrong.
by 9thevolution on Nov 14, 2011 1:17 PM PST up reply actions
eh.....
Vick was even good with the Falcons……it was the rest of his supporting cast that couldn’t help him. He was a one man gang for a couple years there. Has never been the most efficient passer, and yeah lacks consistency like those guys – which is why he’s also 2nd tier – but obviously makes up for it with his array of unique abilities.
by Stoned Slacker on Nov 14, 2011 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
I made this case recently, but the truth is that almost no quarterback is consistent on a yearly basis. The sample (16 games) is too small and the strength of schedule is too volatile to get significant year-to-year consistency with numbers. Some people are inconsistent within a high range, though. And others are not.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Nov 14, 2011 11:08 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, the best you're going to get is relative consistency.
With the way the NFL schedule is created, some teams are in hard divisions and get matched up with other strong divisions one year and end up going against a bunch of cupcakes the next year.
Consider the Pats, who last year, had their 6 in-division games (two times each vs. NYJ, vs. Mia, vs. Buf), the NFC North (GB, Chi, Min, and Det), and the AFC North (Bal, Pitt, Cin, Cle), and this year have their in-division games, the NFC East (NYG, Phi, Dal, Was), the AFC West (Oak, KC, Den, SD). If they had last year’s schedule this year, it would’ve been much harder (due to improvements by Cincinnati and Detroit and regressions by Philly, KC, and San Diego). So there’s no way of telling absolutely how good a team is and how a player is. Unfortunately all we can do is have a vague sense, look at statistics, and watch the games closely for what players do consistently. Sadly, it’s difficult to not be influenced by the media in this regard.
Alex has been so consistently inconsistent over his career, it’s difficult to not think of him as having shown us his best already. He has made some throws this year, especially after escaping the pass rush, resetting his feet and throwing downfield that I never would have expected out of him. Is it possible that he’s only starting to develop now after 7 years in the league?
So far, 2011 has been Harbaugh-some!
Follow @grantmp1
He's improving every game
This past week was a big ego and confidence boost for him. He could have his best game ever against AZ this Sunday.
"One game at a time. Let's just keep it rolling." Justin Smith
If you took Vick
You would have one of the worst starting quarterbacks in the league. Lots of interceptions, league leader in fumbles and complaining. Last year is gone and does not input at all in the conversation.
Vick has turned the ball over more than Blaine Gabbert
What do you base on him not? Even McNabb was great with those weapons that have actually gotten better since. Vick is a losing quarterback and is a reason they are losing.
Vick sucks.
people were to quick to anoint him better than the best last year.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Nov 14, 2011 1:31 PM PST up reply actions
especially the Eagles
who broke the bank on his huge contract!
Interestingly, the other Eagles QB Kevin Kolb also got a huge contract and is sucking this year.
Were you one of the regulars....
saying Smith can’t play because he couldn’t turn Singletary and Nolan’s crap to gold?
My dream is that someday football fans will be able to bring context and situations into their player evaluations….instead of taking everything at face value and conflating a team’s problems with a player’s problems.
by Stoned Slacker on Nov 14, 2011 1:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
vick sucks
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Nov 14, 2011 4:34 PM PST up reply actions
rec'd
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 3:16 PM PST up reply actions
Do you watch any of their games?
Or just go by stats? First of all, he probably has twice as many attempts as Gabbert, and has probably been involved in (read: not just handing the ball off) 5x as many plays. So we can agree that’s a pointless comparison.
Anyway, if you watch games, rather than just go by box scores, you see that Vick is asked to do infinitely more than a lot of these other QBs. Further, its a high risk/reward system where he is going to turn the ball over more than say, Gabbert, who hasn’t thrown 5 passes over 10 yards this year. Last, Vick’s WRs are big playmakers but on the other hand are extremely unreliable pass catchers – Jackson might have the worst hands in the whole league for a WR above practice squad.
So yeah, I think Vick is in a tier with QBs like Manning and Romo….and better than Cutler.
by Stoned Slacker on Nov 14, 2011 1:33 PM PST up reply actions
disagree
McNabb was one of the best in protecting the ball in the same system. I don’t have the stats, but I though McCoy was a premier back and has as many attempts as Gore and they are not just running the clock to finish the game. I have seen a lot of interceptions thrown to LBs (Bills game). I don’t have receiver drop stats or anything but I thought that Maclin has been praised for having clutch hands.
by the way....
sorry for getting a bit punchy there……returned to the page and re-read that, I think I sensed more hostility the first time or something. Like, how dare you challenge my NFL knowledge!!!
by Stoned Slacker on Nov 14, 2011 2:09 PM PST up reply actions
its cool
Thats what this site is all about. You can disagree without disrespecting and I hope that is how I too came across.
Love the analysis...
I like Cutler a bit more than Vick, but your points are very well made. Some of the best I’ve read on this site.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 3:18 PM PST up reply actions
Agree he's overrated and not worth $100 million...
Definitely DON’T AGREE he’s a loser or the reason they are losing this year.
Don’t agree w/that at all.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 2:42 PM PST up reply actions
This year he’s not significantly different than he was with the Falcons, except he’s throwing more passes, and his completion% is up. Everything else is pretty close to being in line with his Atlanta years.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Nov 14, 2011 11:12 PM PST up reply actions
i think last year was an outlier, as opposed to a norm
plus 2 can play that game; how come no one talks about the 10 INT season he had? plus, if you watch him, he’s gotten better every year, and his stats for the most part have shown it. from a low 3000 yard passer to a consistent 4000+ passer; from completing only 48% of his passes to 63%; his yards per completion up 3 yards from his rookie season; and his QB rating improved 20 points from his first full season as a starter. add to that that he never misses games – the one stat no one pays attention to when talking about Eli as one of the best.
As for Vick, never hit 4000 yards passing, only threw for 3000 once, and if you want to use the argument that he’s a different type of QB, then i’ll take into account his rushing number too; his best passing+rushing year was last year, when he had over 3600 yards…after that, he’s nowhere near matching the output of Eli, using both his feet and arm. his high TD output was 21 last year; 30 if you count rushing TDs. he may not throw as many INTs as Eli, but he’s also loose with the ball; avg. 7.4 fumbles a year. ball safety is very much an issue with Vick, even if it’s not coming through the air. he’s not as accurate as Eli either, with his high coming last year at 62%.
Vick is the more exciting player, but is nowhere near on Eli’s level. Add to that Eli’s clutch 4th quarter play(before this year also) and to me it’s not even close – Eli is a top 10 QB.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
I will not - lose! -Jay Z-
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
Good List!
As of right now, I have it:
1) Rodgers
2) Brady
3) Brees
4) Roethlisberger
5) E.Manning
6) Schaub
7) Cutler
8) Alex Smith
9) Romo
10) Rivers
Flacco, Hasselbeck, Matt Ryan, Carson Palmer, Mike Vick, Stafford, Fitzgerald……all fighting to be in the top 10.
J.Campbell, Cassel……decent starters who can win games.
Dalton, Newton, Bradford, Freeman, Sanchez….up-and-comers.
Ponder, Locker, Mallett, Leinart, Matt Flynn, Brady Quinn, Skelton……intriguing and unknown.
Tebow……complete mystery.
Colt McCoy, Kevin Kolb, McNabb, Orton, Henne, T.Jackson……dissappointments.
Whitehurst, Grossman (worse than his numbers), Beck (yeah, I admit it, he’s not played well since his 1st start)……lousy.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 15, 2011 4:02 PM PST up reply actions
LOL Rivers
You don’t have a damn idea what you’re talking about. The guy with the most interceptions in the league
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 16, 2011 12:09 AM PST up reply actions
I bet you're actually ____Tim with a new name
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 16, 2011 12:09 AM PST up reply actions
If You're a Straight Up Retard...
…I apologize for some of things I’ve said to you.
I really do.
If not……
One down year DOES NOT make Philip Rivers a lousy QB. Do you live in a freaking vaccuum? And who is “Tim”? Is he the guy who got to gargle Alex Smith’s schmuttsack instead of yourself? Are you so jealous of this Tim because of that? Is your obsession w/defending Alex Smith ruining your life?
Do tell…..
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 2:46 PM PST up reply actions
You're just a new incarnation of the same idiot.
The stupidity is so similar and the writing style is just about the same. And yes Rivers sucks. He’s in a great situation but because the best TE in the NFL isn’t producing for him he’s now just shy of worthless.
The guy has 2 pro bowl receivers and until last game had a pro bowl LT. Since you can’t figure out how that contributed to his success it’s pretty obvious you don’t understand anything about football.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 16, 2011 10:07 PM PST up reply actions
You just typed "Rivers sucks"...
…and then used it to claim that I don’t know anything about football…
;D
You’d be adorable if you weren’t so angry.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 10:19 PM PST up reply actions
Against the Giants......
The game plan had to change with the injuries to gore, but even with out our ground and pound game Alex “managed” the game thru the air and we won. With this game we showed other teams that we are more than a one dimensional team, and loading the box will only give us plays down field, and that we can execute them. Now that we have shown this teams will now have to figure a new way to defend against us, because loading the box won’t work, not that it works any way when Gore is healthy.
by Nicholas Kitchman on Nov 14, 2011 12:36 PM PST reply actions
I do not think the game plan changed, I think they did the game plan.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Nov 14, 2011 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
Not to refute your premise.....
its intelligently-stated and supported, but my problem is why we have to categorize everything in the first place. Obviously of the 32 starting QBs, I doubt more than 1/4 of them fit either of these categories neatly. You can call Cutler an artist, but then you have to say often he is working on some extremely abstract Picasso-type stuff, he’s just flat-out awful at times.. Even Peyton Manning is usually just plainly executing an offense…..I would use the word “engineer” before any of the four terms discussed here.
So all fair enough, but the huge variety of QBs in this league don’t really fit any categories nicely enough to make this work.
by Stoned Slacker on Nov 14, 2011 12:42 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
I think your problem with the original post
Is that it creates a false dilemma, that is, a dichotomy that is inaccurate. In an earlier post, I noted that there are actually four kinds of quarterbacks, which I think is probably more in line with how quarterbacks really play.
---
Revenge is ice cream.
Great points, S.Slacker... rec'd
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 8:05 PM PST up reply actions
However you want to slice them......
IMO we could break down the various QBs and their talents in 100 different ways if we had the time.
exactly
what is arm strength? The speed the ball travels or the distance. Is accuracy throwing a catchable ball or placing it where you want it. Is mobility scrambling for yards or avoiding the sack? Is game managing playing scared or cautious. There is just too much to analyze.
Arm strength is like porn
Like the judge said ~ not always easy to define but you know it when you see it…
"One game at a time. Let's just keep it rolling." Justin Smith
Mark Sanchez is a game manager. lmao
oh wait, then his coach tell him to shut the front door.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
Mark Sanchez isn’t very good.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Nov 14, 2011 11:13 PM PST up reply actions
Mark Sanchez is just halfway thru his 3rd year...
He’s done just fine.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 15, 2011 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
With an offensive line with the best center in football and a pro bowl LT
A decent run game, decent WRs and the best pass catching RB in the history of pro football. He stinks. Anybody that can’t see that is blind. He stunk at USC he stinks now. You could plug John David Booty in for him and get similar results.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 16, 2011 12:11 AM PST up reply actions
I made love to Alex Smith...
Don’t be jealous.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 2:48 PM PST up reply actions
I give his wife a sponge bath twice a week.
I’m not surprised you’re after Alex. It’s what powderpuff cheerleaders like you have wanted to do for a long time. Since he’s not interested you lash out.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 16, 2011 10:08 PM PST up reply actions
"Powderpuff Cheerleaders"?
Has a nerve been struck?
Quite the phobic comment… And why the need to establish you’re giving a sponge bath to a woman? Something wrong w/it going the other way?
Brother, I love you no matter HOW God made you…
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 10:22 PM PST up reply actions
Chris Henry - The NFL and Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy
I was curious, so I clicked around and stumbled onto this piece that your wrote.
It’s great. Insightful. Poignant. Well-written. Etc.
So now I’m really curious… What’s the deal w/the Alex Smith gibberish? Look, I understand defending the guy through the years from the HATERS, but you make such horrible arguments. It ends up being retard-haters vs retard-apologists. It’s mind-numbing and you are better than that according to what I saw written in your blog…
Those who said Alex Smith was unreconcilable garbage were wrong, but he’s not beyond criticism and he’s not a proven, elite QB yet. Why are you always defending even the SLIGHTEST criticism of the guy?
Your answer would actually make a VERY INTERESTING FanPost in my opinion…
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 11:11 PM PST up reply actions
Does it really matter what they call Alex Smith?
All these labels, who cares. Alex Smith is absolutely right, it does not matter as long as we are winning. And quite frankly he showed that he can throw the ball around alot yesterday with success. The pass to Ted Ginn Jr. was all Ginn’s fault, it hit Ginn and it was an easy pass that was very much catch-able. Sure you can knock Alex Smith for his yardage numbers and TD numbers but one thing that everyone has to remember is that Braylon and Alex do not have years of playing together and Alex and Crabtree are still working on their chemistry together. Throw in a completely new offense with no real off-season can be more to blame for the “game manager” label than anything else. All the other top qb’s in the league play with the same players, especially wideouts, in the same offense for years. And comparing Alex Smith this year to his past years, I honestly would be happy with Alex Smith without the stupid mistakes he made in the past but he has managed so far to not make stupid mistakes and actually play well.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Nov 14, 2011 1:30 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
was it _100%_ Ginn's fault or 95?%
just kidding.
[Poorly Wrought THING] is what Brian Sabean would have made if he were a [THING-maker] instead of a MLB GM
101% his fault
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Nov 14, 2011 4:33 PM PST up reply actions
The labels only matter for what they hide:
My point with the article is that “elite” is, surprisingly, a rather vague term.
So far, 2011 has been Harbaugh-some!
Follow @grantmp1
by grantmp on Nov 14, 2011 6:28 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
yes, it is a term that is open to interpretation. but do labels really matter?
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Nov 14, 2011 7:15 PM PST up reply actions
Labels matter for understanding what you're seeing and communicating about it.
So labels only matter if you care about understanding the game and being able to communicate about it.
Metaphysically, the game remains the same regardless of whether one word is written about it. But short of that God’s-eye-view (which is where we all are), labels are all we have.
Some labels designate judgments that hold up to more scrutiny and that enable better conversation about the game than others. Shouldn’t we prefer better labels?
So far, 2011 has been Harbaugh-some!
Follow @grantmp1
by grantmp on Nov 15, 2011 6:48 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It ABSOLUTELY MATTERS what we call Alex Smith!
From now on, I will refer to him as:
“ManBearPig Assassin”
No idea what I might mean by that, but……it sounds tougher than calling him “Game Manager”.
I have many leather-bound books.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Nov 16, 2011 8:13 PM PST up reply actions
Is the game the same
if a butterfly flaps its wings in a Thailand jungle? Metaphysically speaking that is… ;-)
"One game at a time. Let's just keep it rolling." Justin Smith
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