49ers Vs. Ravens: Getting Over The Officiating
While the 49ers struggled in pass protection and a couple other areas last Thursday, the game also turned a decent amount on some big penalty calls. The two big ones were the pass interference call on Tarell Brown when he intercepted a pass intended for Torrey Smith, and a chop block against Frank Gore on the same play that saw Ted Ginn Jr. haul in a 75-yard touchdown catch and run.
The chop block should have actually been called on Chilo Rachal, but either way it was a bit of a ticky-tack penalty. The pass interference was a tough call as both guys seemed to be getting physical, but on the replay Brown's right hand is wrapped around Smith's left arm. That doesn't get called every time, but I'm not surprised it was called.
Officiating has always been an issue in the NFL, although sometimes it is more frequent. The big issue in my mind is inconsistency in calls. With the NFL officials operating in a part-time job, some folks have suggested turning refs into full time jobs. I can see some benefit to that, but I can also see why it might not make a difference.
As full time officials, these guys can spend their offseason studying the calls, watching game tape and generally better visualizing the plays as they unfold. On the other hand, given how quickly these plans unfold in real time, would that really make a difference? When you are an official hustling down the field on a deep pass, it seems like the chances for inconsistency are pretty high when dealing with less obvious examples of pass interference.
Is there any way to improve referee consistency? Do we go to even more replay? One option would be allowing coaches the right to challenge penalties. Maybe give them one more challenge since that adds more challengeable plays to the mix. For pass interference calls, the league could always go the college route and turn PI into a 15-yard penalty instead of spot of the foul. Any other thoughts?
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Surprised Adon Smith did not sack Flacco....
Anyways, weez got the Rams this weekend.
Anyone recall when it was the 9ers time to pick in the past draft, they had the choice between two Pass Rushers , Smith who of course 9ers picked and Quinn who the Rams picked after the 9ers plucked Smith.
So how do they compare to date, take a look!
Smith – 6-4 / 260 lbs – 11 games: 20 tackles / 7.5 sacks
Quinn- 6-4 / 265 lbs – 10 games: 15 tackles / 5 sacks
It appears pretty close as to who will end up being the better of the two.
Indeed
And, while I love Smith, it bears pointing out that Quinn is doing it on a less successful defense, though I suspect the Rams this year are like us last year: More talented than their record, at least defensively.
As to the Refs: Timely article Fooch. I just notice that the officiating in general this year has been messy; inconsistent from game to game, and crew to crew, and I’m not loving it. Either some sort of objective review of refereeing crews after each game, or, if full-time would help, I’m for it.
What I’m not for is more of the same of what we have seen this season.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Nov 29, 2011 5:22 PM PST up reply actions
Don't know how old Quinn is
But Aldon is 21, or not even? That’s a good bargain for how he’s performing now…
Looking to put San Fran*six-o* here some time soon!
Aldon is 22 as of Sept 25
Quinn is 21 until next May.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 30, 2011 2:50 AM PST up reply actions
Smith will be better hands down.
Much, much better technique and athletic
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The refs have been consistent
Yup, they have consistently tried to screw the 49ers every game lol…well it does seem that we get called for a lot of ticky-tack fouls compared to our opponents
I have noticed
in other games – Green Bay – the refs are just not getting calls right. So not just for the Niners but most games I watch – I think the ref’s are worse this year than past years. Just my opinion.
Seeing the same thing
Even in contests where I don’t have a preferred outcome- the refereeing is just bad nearly all-around, though some teams/player DO still seem to get the calls consistently..
Not sure WHY it is this year moreso than most, but they need to fix it.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Nov 29, 2011 10:18 PM PST up reply actions
Pass interference should be like a facemask penalty...
2 different penalties based on the severity of the foul. If it is incidental and not gross intention of PI, how about a 10 or 15yd penalty and 1st down. If it is a gross foul, the defender was tackling the receiver, spot foul and 1st down.
People have been talking about his for years, it needs to be addressed, but sadly, I don’t see it happening. I’m sure the Refs would be for it, I’m sure they don’t like the fact that they have to hand out 50 yd penalties that are game changing unless it is warranted.
They won’t do that.
They got rid of the two facemask penalties for a reason. Mainly, take the judgement out of it for the officials. Anything they can take out to make it more black/white they will do. Of course they wouldn’t want to cloud the PI picture any further as they already can’t seem to get it correct, much less adding incidental vs. intentional.
Plus there is no such thing as incidental PI, it either is incidental contact and no flag or it isn’t and is a penalty.
Attack this day with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind. ~ Jack Harbaugh
15 yards
I wouldn’t make it more complicated. Simplifying is the answer. Make it 15 yards and leave it at that.
Political correctness is for the weak and spineless. GROW A PAIR!!!
Never saw a good angle on the PI
But the chop block was definitely the right call, not really sure why people are arguing against that one….
by KGboomer on Nov 29, 2011 6:11 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I'm not sure anyone's saying it wasn't the right call
Simply it was somewhat of a ticky-tack foul that doesn’t always get called. The idea of the chop block penalty is for player safety since it can cause serious injuries to knees and ankles, but on that foul I don’t think that was the case. Gore had him blocked, he was already bent over and Rachal gave a little push on the back. I don’t think people would be making such a big deal out of it if the pass was incomplete, but since it negated a 75-yard TD, it completely changed the game.
In the world of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
Disagree
About it being ticky tack, the defender WAS already going over, but chilo clearly pushed him, it wasn’t a little push. But hey I would have loved for it to not get called too obviously
by KGboomer on Nov 29, 2011 6:53 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I didn't think he pushed him that hard since it looked like he was already going to the ground
But I guess there’s no real way of knowing for sure just how hard he pushed him and the rule doesn’t say he has to push him hard for it to be a penalty so it was a penalty. It just stunk considering the outcome of the play, but I think every 49er fan can agree Rachal was an idiot for doing anything since Gore had him blocked and the ball left almost right after.
In the world of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
Chilo Rachal during the post game press conference
“I just…I don’t know. I must have pushed him a little too hard. Yeah.”
He barely even put his hands on him.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 30, 2011 2:52 AM PST up reply actions
probably because
the idea behind the “Chop block” call is that the D-lineman is engaged/blocking and in constant contact with the O-lineman while someone else comes and takes out his legs. On this occasion, Gore was the first to make contact with the chop block, and as the D-lineman was about to hit the ground, Rachal put his finger on the jersey
by sanfranfanmdk on Nov 29, 2011 6:17 PM PST up reply actions
Looked like a lot more then putting his finger on the jersey
by KGboomer on Nov 29, 2011 6:54 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
It looked worse because he was already falling over
Also, that P.I. was garbage too, Torrey Smith started the contact with an arm bar, if anything they could have called offensive pass interference
by sanfranfanmdk on Nov 29, 2011 6:58 PM PST up reply actions
Ok fair enough but I think saying he put a finger on his jersey is a huge exaggeration. And like I said I never saw the backside angle on the PI call so you could very well be right
by KGboomer on Nov 29, 2011 7:04 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
This is exactly why I thought it was a bogus call...
Complete opposite of what a typical chop block is.
by 9thevolution on Nov 30, 2011 8:43 AM PST up reply actions
And Here is what the Rule Book Says
REVERSE CHOP BLOCK ON PASS
(4) On a forward pass play, A1 blocks a defensive player in the area of the thigh or lower, and A2,
simultaneously or immediately after the block by A1, engages the defensive player high.
I got sick of wondering. There are 10 different chop block scenarios a player can get penalized for, I believe this is the one they called on Chilo.
Looking to put San Fran*six-o* here some time soon!
Ah...
So it was a “reverse” chop. Mystery solved. That was a foul that violated the letter of the law, but not the intent, thus the consternation. At live speed, I’m sure it looked worse than it did in slo-mo.
We have a hologram playing right guard. Great.
Blatant
I think the refs should err on the side of letting the players play. If a penalty is obvious to the ref, and/or seems intentional by the player, then a penalty should be called. But if their call is going to affct the outcome of a game and they are not 100% sure the penalty is blatant and obvious they should just let the play tell the story.
Easy to say, hard to do, but I do think the refs are micro-managing the games too much. It’s not knew. It’s been that way for as long as I’ve been watching games. But I think they could try to let the play tell the story.
I know the chop block and the pass interference calls were probably right. But, for instance, if the Ravens did what we did and no penalty was called on those plays, even after seeing replays, would we be complaining about it? I sure wouldn’t be.
At Least It's Not The NBA...
I hate watching stars make fouls, but not allowing them to foul out because they are stars, etc. I think NFL officiating is good compared to other sports and other football leagues. I agree that PI is like ball in hand for pool right now, and it should be 15 yards at most. If you have a weapon at WR&QB you may feel 15 yards is not enough.
Looking to put San Fran*six-o* here some time soon!
PI
The thing about making PI a 15 yarder is that a defender would be more likely to commit the penalty on a deep ball. If I’m beat on a 50 yard pass play and I know I can tackle the guy and just give up 15 yards, I’m doing it.
Right, but you're still giving up 15 yards
and a fresh set of downs. As best as could happen for any other penalty…
Looking to put San Fran*six-o* here some time soon!
But from the offense's point of view
You don’t have the completed pass or perhaps TD that you DESERVE. Why only look at this from the defense’s POV? If someone interferes with Crabtree catching an 80 yd TD in the Endzone you’re fine with saying, “Oh that’s ok. just give us 15 and a 1st”? Bullocks.
We have a hologram playing right guard. Great.
Not sure if you saw what pt33 said , but i like it ...
… 2 different penalties based on the severity of the foul. If it is incidental and not gross intention of PI, how about a 10 or 15yd penalty and 1st down…!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ..( .AleX ) was asked , what do you think about all the game manager talk ... AleX i guess i just managed myself a VIctory ... Extend the Man ...!!
You are right
Patrick Peterson made his lockdown reputation that way. =P
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
Not a good idea to allow coaches to challenge penalties
I think slow motion and instant replay already allow for enough scrutiny. The refs are human.
I think dangerous hits and late hits should be automatically reviewed like scoring plays. It’s clear when watching a replay whether the hit was late or whether a player led with the helmet. It’s really hard to tell these types of fouls at full speed.
That said, the PI call sucked since it could have gone either way, and the chop block sucked because it didn’t have an impact on the play. So much is overlooked it’s just unfortunate this is the one they decide to enforce. Neither of those plays should have been challenged or reviewable. The ref made the call, it was a close call and he chose a side. We just ended up on the wrong side.
I think slow motion and instant replay already allow for enough scrutiny.
All that doesn’t matter at the time of the penalty..A ref doesn’t have access to these on the field. If a coach can’t challenge, there is no way a ref has a chance to review it, therefore a bad call cannot get reversed, therefore teams getting these kind of penalties against them get screwed time and time again.
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
meant
enough scrutiny of the refs – not whether it was the right call at the time. I just don’t think bad calls should get reversed because 999 times out of 1000, it was a close call, not a bad call.
would need stats to prove that the calls don’t even out over time.
YES to reviewing dangerous and late hits
I hate slowing the game down more but rule changes have casterated defences these days. QB’s and receivers are protected just a bit too much IMO. And the “tuck rule” needs to go away.
Political correctness is for the weak and spineless. GROW A PAIR!!!
The penalties that were actually called, weren't as bad as some of the no calls in my observation.
There was a face mask that I clearly remember that was not called… and umpteen penalties that were not called on the Ravens on ST’s…
The Ginn one was ticky tacky and coulda gone either way; unfortunately for the Niners, it went to Baltimore. The Brown one was pretty clear that he had his arm like you said…
I think the Ravens dodged a bullet personally. They dominated in ever facet and the Niners were still in that game down to the end basically.
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that's it exactly for me
if they reviewed a called PI it would most likely show some foul. The problem is all of the plays that have just as much interference that are never called. How do you review a non-call?
"It's impossible to hide the fire inside" - Bob Seger
There were some obvious facemasks by the Ravens not called.
Then again our OL got away with a couple holds that I saw just casually. Didn’t re-watch the game. I have seen some games where it was blatantly obvious that the refs had an agenda. I wouldn’t say the Baltimore game was one. But as I previously posted, I saw that as a scheduled loss by the NFL anyways.
We have a hologram playing right guard. Great.
My issue was the PI when I saw (heard?) soundFX
Ref’s reason was, “did he get two hands up? No? More likely a PI”. That’s the problem. I thought it was a pretty clear shoving by Smith to get some room and keep Brown away from the ball. Brown had just as much claim to the ball as Smith did. Ref just saw offensive player and defensive player. That is the wrong call
I would like replays
for ejection penalties. If you are going to eject a player – it darn well better be the correct player. And ejection penalties can really change a game.
Suh may be
bigger, stronger, and younger, but even if I were him, I still wouldn’t fight Justin Smith.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Nov 29, 2011 10:20 PM PST up reply actions
he kept his distance in the lions game
Suh wouldn’t even go out on the field if Smith was in!
It took me a half second to get that...
then I started cracking up. I refuse to write “lol”, but that’s pretty much what I did. Oh, site decorum; I just wrote it.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Nov 30, 2011 9:47 AM PST up reply actions
OT: The 49ers re-signed receiver John Matthews to the practice squad today.
And released safety Mark LeGree from the PS. If Edwards is inactive due to his AC joint issue, I’m assuming Swain is active as the 4th WR….?
We have a hologram playing right guard. Great.
I absolutely love what john harbaugh said on sound fx...
He was yelling at the referee after they got called on the punt return for block in the back. He said “Don’t guess!!!” Perfect. Absolutely perfect. Referees call what they think are penalties and not what actually are penalties.
by MNY49 on Nov 29, 2011 7:57 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Pass interference
They can’t get rid of the spot of the foul for a pass interference because it would negate most of the deep ball plays. Sure some corners can get purely beat and leave the reciever completely wide open, but if the ball is thrown deep and they can’t can’t catch it, they will just grab the reciever and knock him down to take the 15 yard penalty all day to avoid 50 yard catches.
I thought they shouldn’t have called a foul at all because both parties looked guilty of PI.
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they’re bigger than everybody else, and that’s what makes them the biggest guys on the field." ~ John Madden
I'm actually for that being a judgement call
Intentional pass interference – Mauling the receiver and making no play on the ball – spot of the foul
Pass interference within the flow of the game – not getting your head around to look lightly tugging a guys arm while making a play on the ball – 15 yards.
And let it be challengable.
Offensive Intentional interference 25 yard penalty and loss of down – this is only done in a situation to break up an interception anyways so may as well make it play that’s almost impossible to come back from on that drive.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 30, 2011 2:59 AM PST up reply actions
There was a college game on the other day where there was a halfback pass to a receiver who had his man completely beat and the guy just drug him down from behind while the ball was still in the air
And they had this exact discussion.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 30, 2011 3:00 AM PST up reply actions
I also beleive my rule would make for more aggressive corner play since the corner wouldn't get called for a 50 yard penalty
just because he’s actually playing defense.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Nov 30, 2011 3:01 AM PST up reply actions
I hate to make things more complicated.
But this makes a lot of sense.
Political correctness is for the weak and spineless. GROW A PAIR!!!
I actually like it and don't think it's more complicated....
Since the offense is getting so much help from the rule books, and safeties are no longer allowed to play because you can’t hit a receiver until he has already made a catch and ran for 5 yards, I think it’s about time that you give the corners some serious help in defending against a pass-happy league.
I agree with Burnz on the aggressive corner play though, so that’s exactly why it would never happen. Also, there would be much more “acting” from the receivers when they get touched a little bit and know they had no chance of making the catch.
by 9thevolution on Nov 30, 2011 8:56 AM PST up reply actions
Anytime you ask for a judgement call it gets more complicated
But making judgements is their job. And I agree that making the PI penalty a 15 yard or spot foul is a good idea. I don’t like the idea of making it reviewable.
However the dangerous and late hit penalties should be challengable.
Political correctness is for the weak and spineless. GROW A PAIR!!!
Pass interference needs some clarity
On one hand the offensive player can run right over the defender and its a no call. What kind of contact is allowed from the defender is still ambiguous?
I'm no fan of excessive use of Replay
but if the NFL insists on at the spot penalties for pass interference, I think any PI call over 20 yards should be automatically reviewed because 20+ yards is a huge chuck of yardage and can change swing a game’s outcome on one penalty call.
by allforfunnplay on Nov 29, 2011 10:49 PM PST reply actions
get 100% perfect result ROBOTS
to be the official refs and kick these wannabe tough geezers out of here.
in some ways that's probably the way to go (sort of)
install tons of cameras around the field with a live feed up to the booth where 3-4 refs watch all the screens and have immediate access to replay. Would only need 2-3 refs on the field to break up fights, physically spot the ball (as the spot would be determined in the booth) and give the official calls on the mike.
OT
Why has Jamie Dukes not gotten punched out yet?
http://www.nfl.com/videos/san-francisco-49ers/09000d5d8247bd79/Trust-issues-at-QB
I like how he tries to make the point using Yards Per Game lol what a joke
And I am sorry but the Raven’s D is better then what we would have to face in the playoff’s…You Really think Smith is going to be under that amount of duress from any other team..I don’t think so
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
Saints...
Unless Snyder is back; and maybe even with him, we will get crushed by the Saints pass rush just like the preseason. That’s it, not worried about anyone else; including the Cowgirls who had a field day in the second half earlier this year.
by 9thevolution on Nov 30, 2011 8:58 AM PST up reply actions
Not worried about the Saints D
It’s their offense that’s HUGE.
Same goes for the Packers. Our D & ST will have to keep us in the game.
There’s no one else to fear in the NFC.
Political correctness is for the weak and spineless. GROW A PAIR!!!
The league should require they pass physical tests
I can’t stand seeing some of the refs that are bloated or old and unable to move at the speed of the game. Sure they don’t have to keep up with players at all times, but should be able to keep up with the speed of the game to a certain extent and not get in the way of plays. Can’t hope for anything else in terms of calls; they’ll always be bad.
They do, any high level officiating has standards in place for physical fitness. The issue is more likely that the tests aren’t stringent enough.
Attack this day with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind. ~ Jack Harbaugh
by Virginia9er on Nov 30, 2011 11:12 AM PST up reply actions
Definitely not...
The league consistently maintains an average age of probably around 26-27, meanwhile the refs are the same crews year in and out consistently getting older and likely more out of shape. Their awareness of what is going on around them is also terrible, which is why we see some calls completely missed and others called that shouldn’t be.
by 9thevolution on Nov 30, 2011 11:28 AM PST up reply actions

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