What If We Judged Running Backs Like We Do Quarterbacks?
by Tre9er on Nov 30, 2011 11:48 AM PST
in NFL News
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I read a piece by Jim Trotter today about the way quarterbacks are judged in the modern era. The basis is that we unfortunately judge them more on their statistics, yards and touchdowns mostly, than on their team's record. We judge them by their numbers when there are so many other players on whom their success is contingent. This got me thinking of an analogy, which brought about a question:
What if we judged running-backs in the same manner as quarterbacks? Or, why don't we?
You never hear someone say, "Man, if only Frank Gore was more like Barry Sanders, we'd have won that game for sure."
You never hear, "And now is the time for Steven Jackson to bring his team back from this deficit."
Jump for more soap-box treatment.
I get it...passing the ball is quicker, and generally can gain more yards per attempt...generally. But even if you look at closing a game out, such as running the ball with a lead...you still rarely hear someone say that if only their running back had gained more yardage, in and of himself, that the team would have won.
Sure, it's apples and oranges. But both positions rely on so many other factors and players in order to get their job done. Both need blocking, both have to avoid the defense. The QB has to rely on his receivers to run the right routes and catch the ball when thrown.
Yet in the end, even if there were dropped passes, poor blocking by the O-Line, or incorrect routes-run, we'll say that Alex Smith (or Mark Sanchez, or Joe Flacco, or Matt Ryan) just wasn't able to lead his team to victory.
What happens when the RB faces a disguised run-blitz and is met by five guys in the hole? When the O-Line doesn't block well-enough? Or what if he simply gains his three-to-four yards per carry, but no more...and the opposition get's the ball back and scores?
Do we then say, "Man, I bet Jim Brown could have closed that game out. We need a better running back."?
Of course we don't.
It's all relative, obviously. QB's DO make mistakes with the game on the line, too. But I think we judge them too harshly by the numbers, by the highlights, etc. Consider another position that get's that treatment, despite it's crucial role in the game.
There isn't one.
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My opinion...When 100% healthy, Gore & Jackson
are in the top 5 of current NFL running backs.
And when they are 75% healthy they still are beasts!
One common football action that has ZERO stats attached to it....
The Audible.
QBs will always be associated w/ wins and losses, as some guys can have the most talented RBs and OL, but still don’t get the wins. If a guy can’t walk up to the line and see what the defense is doing, he’s leading his troops into an unfair battle.
Conversely, Centers adjust protection at the line, and RB’s bounce in/out based on what they see…and even WR’s break off their routes. The QB is always the pivot in any scenario and thusly are responsible for the highest level of chemistry.
The fantasy football craze hasn't helped the statistics part of it
We are all striving for big numbers and stats. This is a major reason why we don’t see a lot of agreement on the Tebow situation. He’s winning games but they are ugly so people don’t see him as a legitimate QB.
I agree that we are often harsh on the QB position however I do think there is a leadership to that position that doesn’t exist for the rest of the team. It’s almost like the manager of a store. If the employees don’t do their job, the manager looks bad, but the manager will take quite a bit of heat and responsibility for making things happen appropriately. The manager still works on the floor with the employees but they are the one seeing the entire team and making things happen.
I think the reality is though that Wins and Losses are much more important than the stats of it. But everyone wants a big win that looks pretty. Not an ugly win…
People want everyone to be Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, etc., though.
They chide a guy for not being able to single-handedly win the game…well, do you really want to be in that position? What if we need a 80 yard drive mostly comprised of running plays and the RB doesn’t gain enough yardage? Nobody blames him.
Besides, not every QB, or even the good ones every time, can put the team on their back time and time again. There’s always a losing team, and if it’s up to the QB to get the win………
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
Quite right....
However, the saying in the league goes: “When teams do well, the QB gets all the credit. WHen they do poorly, they get all the blame.” Simply put, it’s the nature of the position. Qb’s make line calls, protection adjustments and route changes when necessary. In essence, they are the “Field Generals”. HB’s are seen more as a cog in the machine, not the brains. (before you pelt me, I am NOT saying HB’s aren’t intelligent) Besides, as much as HB’s are praised, the NFL in general heralds QB’s as the FACES of the new NFL, for good or ill. As such, they are compared harshly. Not only that, but, decent HB’s can be gained almost anywhere. (i.e: Bernie Parmalee [Miami], Mike Anderson [Denver] and so on.) Although there are a few QB’s that have cracked the glass ceiling not being drafted high, for the most part they are considered hit or miss prospects. Lastly, they get so much heat because on EVERY offensive snap, they have the ball in their hands after the center snaps it. Thus, they take more of the sting. Not saying it’s fair, just the way it is.
K.C.Edwards -AKA- "THE" DarkkStarr
"When teams do well, the QB gets all the credit..."
The 49ers are doing well, but not much of the praise it put on Alex.
Because of the play calling...
And I have been heaping praise on Alex this season. Much more than in seasons past. As for the play calling, if you look at much of this years offense, it has been heavy run based instead of asking Alex to hoist the ball up a ton. Thus, he has become more of a game manager. So, he’s not getting much praise. Add to the fact that even though he has had wonderful stats in his career, many of the experts have agreed he hasn’t really played tremendously well. So they are playing their praise closer to the vest than normal. We have all seen how Alex has performed previously and it really wasn’t all THAT noteworthy IMO. This year has been a nice turn around as he simply moves the chains, sustains drives, and doesn’t turn the ball over which are all things we have wanted to see from him on a consistant basis.
K.C.Edwards -AKA- "THE" DarkkStarr
Offensive line
Whenever I play Madden I always draft a ton of linemen because I believe they are the most important. They open up running lanes and give quarterbacks time to throw.
Neither QB or HB can succeed if they are overpowered in the trenches.
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they’re bigger than everybody else, and that’s what makes them the biggest guys on the field." ~ John Madden
by 49erfannm on Nov 30, 2011 12:41 PM PST via mobile reply actions
This ^^^
As well as the comment by tp.
We have a hologram playing right guard. Great.
by whatsURdeal on Nov 30, 2011 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
True Enough
Your sig: PLEASE tell me that’s real?
Because I love how “Captain Obvious” Madden is as a commentator, but while I’d like to believe he said it, it seems too good to be true…yet, somehow, I still have hope.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Dec 2, 2011 5:15 AM PST up reply actions
This reminds me of the difference between Singletary and Harbaugh
Sing thought the QB was just another position. Harbaugh recognizes that the QB is the most important position on the team.
This is why we judge QB’s so harshly. Because the QB has the most influence on a team’s wins and losses.
Call me cautiously optimistic....because I know what the Niners do to people who have real optimism (see the last 8 years).
Really? i didnt see Singletarys tell all book!
I don't want to be greedy, but I want it to be useful, because if everybody agrees that they're more predictable, we know what we're going to get week to week, then why not? Why say: "Good year. We went to the playoffs. We went one-and-out. But, boy, next year! Look what we can do!" No, we're here! -S Young
Such a great point. Rec'd.
I really hope people around here listen to the point being made. The NFL has become obsessively QB centric. Yes, the NFL has actually turned more into a QBs game on the field (thanks to the excessive rule changes that severely favor the passing game, for instance). However, a football team has a 53 man roster and a very large group of coaches and executives… yet it is always the QB and Head Coach that get the blame or credit.
It is interesting to see how people react… poor blocking, for example. A guy comes free and tackles the RB 4 yards behind the line and they say “there’s nowhere to run!” But a guy comes free and crushes the QB for a sack and many people say “What the hell, QB? Get rid of the ball!”
Jim Harbaugh AND Alex Smith are our future!
SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS: WORLD CHAMPIONS!
Touchdown Forty Niners!
Giants Baseball: Torture. It hurts so good.
Oh Boy!
Yes cause offensive linemen, defensive linemen, receivers, defensive backs, linebackers, running backs and kickers are never blamed. Is why this entire post is asinine. Another false pretense to make a false point.
the point of my post was that there aren't 32 Tom Brady's, or Peyton Manning's, or whomever
everyone wants their QB to be someone else, unless they’re one of the “elite” in the league. There will never be 32 guys like that and I hate that the goal is to have that guy. I think Harbaugh knows that. He’s focusing on winning any way he can, not stewing in the fact that he doesn’t have a guy who throws for 4500 yards and 38 TD’s.
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
If you find that guy, great. But you don't absolutely need him to win a Championship.
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
Is it really hard to understand?
You score points by getting the football into the opponents endzone. The center and the quarterback start every play with the ball. It is up to the quarterback to get the ball to the players who are going to make positive plays. That is the easiest way to say it. But here is a bad analogy to hopefully simplify it for those who don’t understand the importance of a good QB.
The QB is like the conductor of a symphony (aka. team). If he cannot keep the rhythm, it doesn’t matter who wrote the song (coaches), or who is playing the brass, strings or percussion (WR, TE, FB/HB), cause they are looking to him to guide them. He starts them off, and sets the pace. The others can make mistakes and as long as he is doing his job, they can get back on track and make beautiful music. If he is off, however, it throws off everything the others are doing.
Dang, that is actually a great analogy. The QB is in control of the Offense. Period. If he fails, the offense fails.
NICE TRY....BUT
the analogy explains more the function of how a football team operates. most conductor’s can interchange between orchestras, where as the “elite” (Brady,Manning…) can tune the instruments during the performance as well.
right, but they also get crapped-on when they can't come back from a deficit, even if much of it wasn't their fault.
because they can’t “win the game for you”
that was the point……
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
We judge running backs based on ability
to find the open hole, if there is one, or get outside the defenseive end.Then on their jukes, cuts, and ability to break tackles.
It’s essentially the same as we judge quarterbacks. We judge a quarterback based on ability to find an open guy, if there is one, and then on their accuracy and ability to evade sacks without throwing interceptions.
The thing some people don’t seem to notice is the adjustments a quarterback is expected to make. A ton of knowledge and intuition goes into this, and it’s not easy to tell how much of the plays success or failure is attributed to the adjusted call most of the time.
I don’t really see how the issue is judging quarterbacks or running backs unfairly or if quarter backs get judged on different expectations. Clearly there is a different set of skills that goes into each position, they are going to be viewed as different impacts to the game and as different positions.
No position stands alone on either side of the ball, everyone has to move as a unit. No player is immune from critisism either. If a quarterback fails to get the ball to the recievers, or fails to aviod sacks he is going to share some of the blame with his teammates, unless the entire team somehow failed when he gave them every chance to succeed.
The same goes for the running back. If the running back fails to get yards, he is sharing some of the blame. The only time the running back is not held responsible is if the defense is stacking the box without regard to a passing game because there is no effective passing game for them to be concerned about. It happens.
The reality of a power run offense is…If you can’t run against a team who is not stacking the box, you will likely not be able to pass, and if you can’t pass against a team that is stacking the box, you will not likely be able to run either.
Blue collar means we go to work, we do our job, we go home to our families. We don't ask for special treatment, and we don't take any crap.
We are just here to do our job to the best of our abilities, and we take pride in our work. You might not be impressed while you watch us work, if you cannot understand what we are doing. But when you see what we have accomplished you will be impressed.
We are blue collar, we are the ones who built every thing you see.
most of us understand that
but the big knock on the guys I mentioned is they don’t throw enough TD’s, yards, and/or can’t carry the team on their backs. There simply aren’t many that can do that on a regular basis (similar to how a RB can’t completely take over a game on a regular basis)…so why do we always think a guy isn’t good enough until he’s Joe Montana?
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
Joe Montana is a metephor for winning the Super Bowl
In the hearts of Forty Niner fans he has ceased to be remembered as a quarterback and has become an icon of a winning tradition, or culture. As fans we all know the supporting cast was just as essential to the team’s success as the quarterback, but when we invoke the name “Joe Montana” we are no longer objectively comparing the technical aspects of the position, but we are invoking the metephor of a quarterback who repeatedly won the biggest game in the sport. When you have become a metephor for victory, Tre9er, you will be indisputable on all levels. It’s second only to being a god.
Yes there has to be a supporting cast, but Joe is not a metaphor for winning because he was one of eleven. There was something about how he played the game that goes beyond explanation, something he had in him that made him a winner in his own rite, that goes beyond the ability to play the game.
I think when quarterbacks are held to the seemingly impossible standards of a man (or god?) like Joe Montana we are looking for that thing, not for quarterbacking competence. Dan Marino had plenty of that and a supporting cast, as does Tony Romo, but they are clearly missing the thing Joe had.
Blue collar means we go to work, we do our job, we go home to our families. We don't ask for special treatment, and we don't take any crap.
We are just here to do our job to the best of our abilities, and we take pride in our work. You might not be impressed while you watch us work, if you cannot understand what we are doing. But when you see what we have accomplished you will be impressed.
We are blue collar, we are the ones who built every thing you see.
right, and while great QB's are the ultimate...we can't strive for that level of greatness at the expense of everyone who doesn't measure-up
We're as good as we play each week, no better, no worse.
Follow @Tre9er
Who isn't measuring up?
I don’t understand. Why not strive for that level of greatness? It doesn’t have to expense anyone. Being great isn’t something that has to be at anyone’s expense. If you are great it isn’t because of anyone else’s failures or successes.
When you are in competition with someone who is great, their greatness does not subtract from whatever greatness you have in you. It should bring it out. If it does not, then maybe you just don’t have it in you.
Imagine if you were the best there was in a competitive sport and everyone just stopped trying to beat you. How sad would that be, your career would be over. Don’t you want to compete against the best possible opponents?
This is why I’m never perplexed at guys like M.J. and Favre struggling with their retirement. They don’t want to leave on top, they don’t ever consider the competition over. It’s certainly not about the money. They just want to go out there, find the best competition available, and beat them. Really its more about proving it to yourself, than it is about anyone else.
Blue collar means we go to work, we do our job, we go home to our families. We don't ask for special treatment, and we don't take any crap.
We are just here to do our job to the best of our abilities, and we take pride in our work. You might not be impressed while you watch us work, if you cannot understand what we are doing. But when you see what we have accomplished you will be impressed.
We are blue collar, we are the ones who built every thing you see.
I think we have a biased opinion because we have Frank Gore
If we had a crap running game, we would more tuned in to how our team was not “getting it done” because of no running game. I heard a story about how Pittsburgh won a superbowl, and they’re running off the field in victory, and there are fans yelling at the coaches, “draft a frickin fullback!” all angry that the running game was insufficient. I think a lot of people in Buffalo blame Thermal Thomas for not winning a SB… If you have a fumbler, it will certainly bring criticism. Remember Running Watters with the alligator arms? That was a shot heard round the world.
Certainly in years past we excused Alex’s poor performance on our less than stellar receiving corps.
Looking to put San Fran*six-o* here some time soon!
I don't think Steeler fans are wrong
The 90’s with Young proved a team needs a running game to beat the best teams in January.
This is for the meekness in football fans ...!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ..( .AleX ) was asked , what do you think about all the game manager talk ... AleX i guess i just managed myself a VIctory ... Extend the Man ...!!
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