James Harrison Suspension: Rooting For 'The Bad Guy'
First off, to Steelers fans visiting NN this week, this post is not meant to infer that James Harrison is a bad person. Hopefully you get that, but sometimes explanations are required.
News came out earlier today that Steelers LB James Harrison was suspended for one game due to his hit on Cleveland Browns QB Colt McCoy. He has three days to appeal the suspension and the NFL has indicated they will expedite the appeal. Art Shell or Ted Cottrell will hear the appeal and the suspension is unlikely to be overturned.
Harrison would serve the suspension this week meaning he would sit out Monday Night Football agains the 49ers. That is quite significant given what he brings to the Steelers pass rush. Whether or not the Steelers have LaMarr Woodley back at the other OLB position, losing Harrison stings.
I initially wrote about the possibility of suspension yesterday and it brought out Steelers fans in defense of Harrison. Naturally this led to plenty of back and forth about Harrison and whether or not he is a dirty player and whether or not the league is picking on him to a certain extent.
Plenty of people here have dogged Harrison for his actions and called him a dirty player. As Steelers fans have defended him, it got me to thinking about the idea of "bad guys" in sports. I don't mean bad people, but more just the idea that there are players out there that you can't stand if they are on the opposite sideline, but you will defend to the end if they are on your team. A non-football example is catcher A.J. Pierzynski. Opposing fans and even opposing players can't stand him, but his teammates and fans will generally support him (or at least put up with him).
I don't know if every single team has such a "bad guy" but I think a lot of teams have somebody on their sideline that draws the ire of opposing fans quite frequently. Following the Detroit Lions game, you could make the argument head coach Jim Harbaugh was that person for the 49ers. I don't think it's quite like that at this point, but much like the always exuberant Pete Carroll in Seattle, it is interesting to consider how fans around the league view a given coach.
With regards to Harrison, plenty of fans will call him out now, but if the shoe was on the other foot, I believe plenty of them would be providing support for him.
James Harrison is stuck in a situation where he would have been perfectly fine ten, fifteen years ago, and would have been in his element back in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Unfortunately for him, the NFL game is evolving. It is incredibly hard to legislate safety in such a high speed, high impact sport, but Harrison has to deal with it nonetheless.
While Harrison is breaking the rules of the league, I don't think it is so black and white to say he is a "dirty player." I think he has to figure out how to better play within the evolving rules of the league, but I'm not sure I am prepared to classify him as dirty. Dirty is a player that stomps on a player's arm after a player. His hits can be vicious and can cause serious injury, but in the context of the speed of the NFL, does that necessarily mean dirty?
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Only player who is flagged for these hits so much....
Dirty or not, he has made no effort to correct the way he tackles in the three years since this rule was instated, and has gone to the point of saying he should retire because he’s not allowed to tackle the way he learned 15 years ago. Everyone else in the league has adapted to the rule change, but Harrison seems to blatantly disregard it. I can’t see how anyone can say he doesn’t make these hits purposely, especially considering his attitude after the fines are passed down. Suspension is totally deserved at this point, and I could even argue that one game is generous.
Disagree. Some players have changed their target area, but other players far worse hits are not penalized, not suspended, etc.
But Harrison is most definitely being singled out. I think its more due to the idiotic comments he makes every time he opens his mouth. Calling out goodell, calling him homophobic slurs, saying you wouldn’t even piss on him in a fire- you can be SURE Goodell was waiting for even the slightest excuse to suspend Harrison.
He is not a dirty player, just not a very intelligent one. To anyone that calls any of his hits dirty- you have to go review them in glorious slow mo. On nearly all the “defenseless” hits, the player with the ball lowers his head, or puts himself in a position that hurts themselves. Harrison cannot change trajectory once a tackle has started. That being said, he’s gotta start using his #$# head and try to avoid the “deebo smash” stuff he does. Lambert was the best form tackler ever for the steelers, and people say there’s no way he’d survive in Goodells, league- thats BS. Lambert never launched himself for jarring hits, he just executed perfect form tackles. I am not sure deebo can do that.
ducking the head
I’ve heard this on occasion, and i respectfully disagree.
lets say that the players do not duck. harrison’s helmet is still collarbone-high, and still directly to the opponent’s vital region (heart/head). a proper tackle attempts to stop the other player- meaning their helmet should be somewhere closer to the core of the opponent’s body. my other argument is that harrison does not use either his shoulders or arms. If his goal was to take down the carrier, you should see more of a 2 step tacke: contact and wrap-up.
i agree with all else you’ve said. i don’t think he’s dirty, but he’s definitely not using his brain. he shows a clear disregard for team defense. niner’s defense practices turnovers every thursday, and all players on the team view it as a team stat. if harrison’s hits are intended to dislodge the ball, you should see more of a punching motion in his arms and more of an effort to hold up a player while help arrives to the scene of the tackle.
as a one-time DPOY, i am wholly surprised by his lack of discipline in fundamental tackling and team defense.
He has never exhibited tackling fundamentals.
I honestly do not see much of that at all in the NFL. I plated in HS as a defensive end, and our coaches would never allow us to hit opposing players like such. You actually end up hurting yourself in those kind of hits.
Watch Patrick Willis play
Then you will see a perfect example of how to correctly tackle a player, while still going at light speed
by sanfranfanmdk on Dec 13, 2011 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
Patrick Willis? If everyone could do what he does, then Patrick Willis wouldn’t be special would he?
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by FrankWyt on Dec 13, 2011 12:31 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Willis
Proper tackling is not what makes Patrick Willis so special. It is a perk, but what is special about him is his athleticism and instincts. Even the worst NFL player can be a proper tackler.
by David Fucillo on Dec 13, 2011 1:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you lol
If Willis can make a proper tackle going at the speed he does, then everyone should be able to
by sanfranfanmdk on Dec 13, 2011 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
Welcome to our site
With Harrison, I agree that he’s being singled out. And, I would not call him dirty in the sense that Suh has been called it, ie, fines after the whistle, trying to twist-cap QB’s heads off, etc.
But whether it’s “not being a very intelligent player” or not, it IS troubling that he hasn’t adjusted his style of play given how publicly this has gone on. It is also troubling that he IS being singled out, and that the league is definitely applying their alleged interest in “player safety” selectively, and somewhat hypocritically, particularly with regard to the helmet issue (That is, their choice to use ones from Riddell that are LESS safe, rather than paying more, but protecting players better.)
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Dec 13, 2011 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
Good point about Lambert
I’ve heard some say the same about Lott but when you go back and watch highlights of his career, Ronnie was an excellent form tackler who led with his forearms and shoulder pads on big hits, not his head. No doubt a player such as he or Lambert would draw PF penatlies now, seeing as many of them are based on the ferocity of the hit and not on genuine helmet-to-helmet contact (i.e. Brady’s hit from Sunday), but upon league review they would not be fined or suspended.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
I can agree that he is likely being targeted....
You know that it burns Roger that he’s constantly being criticized by Harrison.
That said, he hasn’t adjusted his tackling like others have and that’s why he is being hit with a lot of fines.
As for other players, I think there’s a slight difference in that we are now seeing the “defenseless receiver” call; which is totally bogus. I think there are a lot more calls for that where as Harrison’s previous fines were not blindside hits, but he just leads with the crown and makes contact with another players helmet. The “defenseless receiver” cals now prevent the defense from stopping completions in which they would otherwise be able to hit and dislodge the ball.
by 9thevolution on Dec 13, 2011 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
This is a cop-out.......I expect Steeler fans to feel this way, but rational people see it for what it is.
If this was Patrick Willis I would defend him too, but Harrison just doesn’t get it or he doesn’t care……until he gets suspended…maybe now he will get it and learn…….
by ericalancanty on Dec 13, 2011 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
In 9 games this year, Harrison has been fined once. Those 9 games include 9 QB sacks and 10 other QB hits. He also drops into coverage more than most other pass rushers and sees a ton of defenseless WRs. So, with all of that he has one fine. You’re telling me that you can clearly say, without a doubt, that he hasn’t made an effort to adjust his game? One hit tells you the whole story after 8 straight games without a fine?
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by John Stephens on Dec 13, 2011 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
No, your Honor.
This is just the first time this year I burned. I use to burn a lot before, but I was more careful lately and it was just one little mistake.
Horrible analogy.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Dec 13, 2011 11:43 AM PST up reply actions
The former drug addict isn’t told to go sell drugs, but not to smoke them.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Dec 13, 2011 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
I base it on the fact that he had plenty of fines since the rule was instated and a complete public lack of concern for the league discipline
I haven’t watched the Steelers closely this year, but in the past, as in two previous years, he didn’t exactly display that he cared much about attempting to play within the new rules; going as far as saying he would rather retire than change the way he tackles.
Also, I watched this particular hit in both full speed and slo mo, and he has no excuse for lowering his head. If he had kept his head up, he likely could have deflected the pass over his head. No reason to lower his eyes to make that hit.
by 9thevolution on Dec 13, 2011 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
in the past, as in two previous years, he didn’t exactly display that he cared much about attempting to play within the new rules;
Shouldn’t we be more concerned with what he is doing NOW than the past?
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by John Stephens on Dec 13, 2011 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
well yeah
and what he’s doing now is getting suspended for a helmet to helmet hit.
Maslow's theory of higher needs does not apply to Patrick Willis. He only has two needs: tackling people and finding people to tackle.
One hit in 9 games. Who else was suspended for one hit?
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by John Stephens on Dec 13, 2011 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
nobody
and nobody has the track record that Harrison has
Maslow's theory of higher needs does not apply to Patrick Willis. He only has two needs: tackling people and finding people to tackle.
A track record before he adjusted his game to fit the new system?
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by John Stephens on Dec 13, 2011 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe so....
but if we are considering what he is doing now, he apparently posted “lol” in regards to his suspension after the news was passed along; thus proving that he doesn’t care.
Granted, he can’t be surprised and believes Goodell has a grudge against him (rightfully so, but he brought it on himself); however, just as other suspension worthy incidents carry over from one year to the next, so should this. If the Redskins players suspended now for PADs fail another test next year, are they given a pass because it is a different league year? Certainly not. He should be able to redeem himself by playing without doing it consistenly for at least two seasons. And that’s not to say no bad hits, just none that look intentional like the one on McCoy.
Also, this is not precedent. Jets’ Eric Smith suspended in 2008 for the hit that broke Boldin’s face. That was much more violent and egregious (completely launching and leading with the helmet), but this is not the first or last time a player will be suspended for an illegal hit.
by 9thevolution on Dec 13, 2011 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
How are you determining his intent?
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by John Stephens on Dec 13, 2011 1:12 PM PST up reply actions
The fact that his eyes were up on McCoy and he lowered his helmet right into his facemask before making contact....
You can argue that I don’t know his “intent” but if you watch the play, there was no reason he had to drop his helmet. Could have just wrapped him up and still slammed him to the ground. He either intentionally led with his helmet, or he hasn’t corrected his problem of bad tackling by leading with the helmet that he has displayed in the past; one or the other, take your pick.
by 9thevolution on Dec 13, 2011 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
So, you know that his intent was to put his helmet into his helmet? Interesting.
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by John Stephens on Dec 13, 2011 2:45 PM PST up reply actions
Your first sentence ruins the validity of the rest of your comment. Since the end of last year up until Thursday’s game, he hasn’t been fined for a single hit. In fact, the league lowered the fines last season because they said that he made an effort to adjust to the (pussy) rules.
"I’ll consider myself a dirty player when my mom calls me a dirty player." - Ndamukong Suh
As a NY ranger fan
Sean avery comes to mind. I love that guy, but people on the other side will concur greatly lol. Im sure i wouldnt like him very much on the other team as well.
In regards to Harrison, Its no surprise that he is getting supended as he has been fined for this many times. But i wouldnt throw him in the dirty player category, the NFL is getting a little rediculous with these fines and its sad. While he needs to learn the lesson of trying to hit the head so much, he just cant seem to help it. This is the way he plays and i would love him on the 49ers. While it helps that he wont be playing monday, If the 49ers win i can see the excuses for miles that the only reason we won was we played a banged up team who travelled cross country, oh well Go 49ers!
I don't think you will see Ben, Pouncey, Harrison, Woodley, Polamalu, Clark.
I think it all depends on the ravens game on sunday, if they beat the chargers, then there’s no real chance the steelers can take the AFC north, in which case they’d probably rest all the starters that can. Clark can’t play at mile high due to his sickle cell.
Which is kind of sad
On the one hand, the Niners chances go up due to that, but on the other, we want it to be two good teams going at it, no excuses for either side after.
Also, as I am going to the game, I wanted to see several of those dudes in person.
Either way, still totally excited about it.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Dec 13, 2011 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, end of season games are a crapshoot.
I feel bad for the fans that pay all that money to go to a game, and then find out all the starters are resting. Its like a pre season game.
definitely better then preseason
I’m stoked to be going to this game! Even if some starters are out there are playoff implications!
So, you're saying the Steelers don't care about possibly being the number 2 seed?
I don’t get that. Whether Baltimore wins or loses on Sunday, there are still 2 more games, in which a lot of seedings could be affected by wins or losses. I don’t think the Steelers will say, well let’s play for the 6th seed wildcard instead of getting a bye and a home game. Unless I ma missing the point of your post, I can’t see the logic.
The browns aren't about to beat the ravens- chargers is the only chance for the steelers to get the division.
I don’t see how the steelers get better than 5th seed, whether or not they win out- unless the ravens lose.
In my experience, the games are not played on paper
Just ask the Saints after they lost to the Rams.
yeah buoy!
Brad Richards is holding up my fantasy team right now. he’s a PP machine! Glad to see the Ranger squad coming together as they have.
The NFL should switch back to leather helmets.
I’d like to see Harrison head hunt and crack his cranium.
Just to see Goldson deliver big hits without launching his head weapon makes me proud to be a Niner fan.
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they’re bigger than everybody else, and that’s what makes them the biggest guys on the field." ~ John Madden
by 49erfannm on Dec 13, 2011 10:55 AM PST via mobile reply actions
I agree, that hit on McCoy was dirty
I am not gonna go on record and say Harrison is dirty, but that one particular hit was, at least from the way I saw it. He’s a heck of a player, but I have had a similar type player on one of my teams, who was overly aggressive with the helmet hits, and it was annoying and frustrating to see that he never could change his style, and to see the multiple flags and also the hurt players that dropped. Don’t like to see it.
I alos have to wonder if there wasn't any sort of backroom deal amoung the D players
When Paxson tried to break ben’s leg, I was worried there would be retribution.
In my experience coaches
often teach dirty tactics. My HS coach taught how to sucker punch. He was caught changing a players jersey and sending him back in after a rejection.If a guy plays dirty, there’s usually a coach egging him on.
In sum, there is much less dirty play throughout FB in the age of television and a new perspective of sportsmanship.
Are you implying that Tomlin or LeBeau are dirty coaches?
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by John Stephens on Dec 13, 2011 11:38 AM PST up reply actions
That's a dit extreme....
Somehow I doubt Tomlin encourages players to make tackles that get them fined or potentially suspended. If he did, wouldn’t Polamalu, who also makes some big time hits, be getting fined much more? It’s on Harrison, not coaches.
by 9thevolution on Dec 13, 2011 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
Playing football
in high school we had some older guys who used to play on the team come back and help out as assistants. They would always give the linemen tips on “how to survive” in the pileup after a play. Fishhooks, biting fingers, poking in the eye. They told us it was all fair game except grabbing the genitals..that was taboo lol. I didn’t agree with that kind of play then, and I still don’t. Always felt it was kind of chickencrap to do stupid stuff like that. But I am sure its the same way everywhere. You get taught how to survive and sometimes its not the right way to play. Old habits die hard.
sssooo
basically if he appeals it (which he most likely will) then he will still be playing against the Niners?
not likely
The NFL has said they will expedite the appeal, so it would be heard before Monday
by David Fucillo on Dec 13, 2011 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
aahhhh ok thanks
I didnt know thats what expedite meant…
I read a PFT article that alluded
that he may not even appeal.
Maslow's theory of higher needs does not apply to Patrick Willis. He only has two needs: tackling people and finding people to tackle.
His post on FB
Made it seem like he might not.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Dec 13, 2011 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
I think that's the smartest
take the suspension. Say that you will learn. Save the punching for the dog pile.
well I don't follow him on FB
so I’m not sure what he’s had to say about it
Maslow's theory of higher needs does not apply to Patrick Willis. He only has two needs: tackling people and finding people to tackle.
I didn’t suggest you were. I was just giving you a heads up. Straight from the horse’s mouth is better than PFT. Then again a 3 year old blogging is better than PFT.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Dec 13, 2011 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
Oh no I agree about PFT
I was going to add “take this with a grain of salt” but I figured that was assumed
Maslow's theory of higher needs does not apply to Patrick Willis. He only has two needs: tackling people and finding people to tackle.
Actually went back and read the whole defense of James Harrison thread.
The argument that one implied that ALL of James Harrison’s tackles are dirty was hilarious. How do you argue with that? Also I’m confused as to what it is they (the two steeler posters) don’t agree with, the rule itself, the punishment, or both.
Def don't like the direction this goes.
Playoffs have lots of hard hits. Goodell has too much power in that he can singlehandledly determine who wins in the playoffs just by arbitrarily suspending a key player. Once that genie gets out, you can’t put it back in the bottle. Harrison shouldn’t have been suspended for the hit once McCoy tucked the ball and ran. Now I think people are going to get suspended for even less. What would the cowboys be without Ware? What would the niners D be without Willis? You can accidentally hit a QB wrong and if Goodell doesn’t like you, get suspended. They players should have demanded that a council review/issue fines/suspensions, not Goodell. He’s like judge dredd: Judge, jury, executioner.
The real focus of that hit should be on the Browns putting McCoy back in the game. That’s the only sin I see from that moment.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
McCoy did tuck the ball at first...
but he was still behind the LOS scrambling from other pressure. This wasn’t exactly a Tebow-designed run play and he did pull the ball out to pass while Harrison still had his eyes up.
by 9thevolution on Dec 13, 2011 1:13 PM PST up reply actions
Too bad
I hoped that Harrison would play and Ben as well. Much as I want Willis to play (but don’t think he will). A game this marquee should have all key players on the field, and what better way to prove yourself than to go against the best. That it’s a night game is even better.
I don’t think that JH is “dirty” the way that Suh appears to be, but he is certainly of a now defunct era in terms of how he plays. He’d be the weekly highlight on the old MNF Countdown segment “Jacked Up” if this was ten years ago. Twenty years ago he’d be a constant on the old big hits VHS copy put out by NFL Films. He could play without suspension in any era other than the current.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
A game this marquee should have all key players on the field,
Amen to that.
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by John Stephens on Dec 13, 2011 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
Dirty
James Harrison is dirty including his scum-stache. I would excuse him if this was within the first ten offenses… Sorry but its a result of tomlin outright teaching his players contrary to the rules. Same as suh losing his cool (schwartz) its a result of an attitude that needs to be adjusted. I love goldson’s style of play, whitner too but they aim for the ball to cause fumbles instead of going for the head to cause serious injury.
yeah I'll agree
that Scwartz is dirty and his Lions project that, but really no one on the Steelers outside of Harrison acts that way.
Maslow's theory of higher needs does not apply to Patrick Willis. He only has two needs: tackling people and finding people to tackle.
“Clark said that coach Mike Tomlin informed him of the fine and told him the hit was used by Tomlin on Monday as an example of a good hit in the team’s film review.”
Quote from espn on helmet-to-helmet hit by ryan clark on ed dickson that received a $40K fine.
yeah, that was a terrible call...!
it was a perfect tackle. that was one of the worst calls this year for us.
We've had two I can think of
Madieu Williams was called for a h2h hit in the opener (great shoulder pad to midsection hit to cause an incompletion) that kept alive a Seattle drive that ended with a TD. Goldson was called for the same in the Cleveland game right before the half which allowed the Browns to kick a long FG. Neither was fined by the league since the calls were incorrect.
The Niners won both games but those points caused both to be closer than need be. The 15 yards and first down provides a drive where no existed. I fear that some team will get royaly screwed by this come playoff time where most games are decided by one score.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Same thing can be said for the Larry Grant hitting Skelton in the thigh 15 yarder
He gets cut blocked into his thigh, they get 15 yards and the drive results in a TD (while the same thing happens to Alex with no call)….I have a feeling that it will most likely cause the Niners out of everyone to lose because the NFL likes to give us harsher enforcement of the rules.
by sanfranfanmdk on Dec 13, 2011 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
yeah I also think that was a horrible call if I'm remembering the exact hit in question
Tomlin has done nothing in my point of view for him to be labeled as a dirty coach.
Maslow's theory of higher needs does not apply to Patrick Willis. He only has two needs: tackling people and finding people to tackle.
I agree with the above....
I saw that tackle, terrible call and likely an example of Goodell being bitter towards the Steelers about being the most vocal team against him.
by 9thevolution on Dec 13, 2011 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
On that hit
you can see Clark leading with his shoulder, the force brought Dickson’s helmet down. Bad call on that play.
Things can always be worse....
BS suspention and penalty:
This is such BS….this is coming from a non-Steeler fan more-so! A QB that is out of the pocket WITH THE BALL TUCKED is not a defenseless WR nor do they fall under the protected QB rule!!! As soon as he left the pocket he was a runner! You can’t tuck the ball then at the last second throw it then blame the dude for taking his head off!!! (which is exactly what he’d do on a running back) That’s garbage… If it’s Tebow, Vick, Vince Young, Big Ben, or any other QB and they run for a first down on him and he DOESN’T take his head off the Steelers coaches would be PISSED. That’s a b.s. call…
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Thats the best way to let him run for a first down
Put your head down and lead with the crown of the helmet is a perfet way to get juked. He could have still leveled mccoy and hit him in the midsection. No excuse.
I'm simply saying Mr. Commisioner can't re-create the rules at will. This dude tucked the ball, ran towards the line of scrimmage (out of the pocket now), then after he sees Harrison coming at the last moment "nope, I'm a passer" PROTECTED! GTFOH!!! LOL
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
Exactly! Skelton got killed by aldon smith and goldson this weekend as they forced a fumble. Difference is they didn’t aim for his head with their head! pretty simple
There can't be two rules for two sets of players dude. If it's a helmet to helmet hit on a runningback there's no penalty. But because it's on a running QB there is? You tell me where you see that in the rulebook....I'll wait.......#EXACTLY
If they wanna bring back the rule for spearing, fine…do that. But don’t call it roughing the passer when dude is no longer just that. If he’s out of the pocket and he’s not sliding light him up JUST LIKE A RB.
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
I agree with being able to CRUSH a QB who is out of the pocket and not sliding.
As long as its within the rules.
What difference does it make that he was a quarterback out of the pocket?
I thought he was penalized for a head to head collision.
H-2-H on a runner is not a penalty from my understanding.
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by John Stephens on Dec 13, 2011 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
This is news to me. Specifically a “Running Back” ? I do recall Ray Lewis getting fined for H2H on Hines Ward earlier this year.
I think it’s anyone once they are established as a runner (someone let me know if I’m wrong).
Lewis did get fined, but he didn’t get a penalty, which was a much bigger deal. And that one was so blatant.
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by John Stephens on Dec 13, 2011 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
And if Goodell wants to go by "track record"...
…then Lewis should have been suspended.
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I'm pretty sure you're right about this.
I think it’s anyone once they are established as a runner (someone let me know if I’m wrong).
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If you order a "Cowboys kicker" at the bar, you get a shot of iced Bailey's.
Hines Ward isn't a RB...and the hit that Ray was fined for they stated that he "hadn't made a football move" yet.
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
Ward had just caught the ball and wasn't a runner.
"I’ll consider myself a dirty player when my mom calls me a dirty player." - Ndamukong Suh
Helmet to helmet is always a penalty these days
Got called in the Niners game on Sunday. Delanie Walker got hit H-2-H. Though I’m fuzzy on whether he had actually started running with the ball or not.
I think it states in the rulebook that those rules don’t apply to runners not in a defenseless position.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Dec 13, 2011 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
I don't believe that's correct
Pretty sure the rule prohibits any violent or unnecessary helmet-to-helmet contact. They just give special attention to defenseless players.
Oops...
…it appears I’m incorrect. Sorry for the misinformation. According to the rules excerpted at this link, however, helmet-to-helmet contact is always illegal against the QB:
why do you people keep saying “crown of the helmet” At least watch the play man, don’t just spew that b.s It was face mask to face mask.
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Who the hell's interrupting my Kung Fu? - Black Dynamite
With two D's, for a double dose of this pimpin'
I feel your plight though that had this been any other player not named James Harrison,
he wouldn’t be getting suspended. But the fact that he is synonomous with this infraction didn’t do him any favors. Likewise, if there was a penalty for your helmet falling off all the time on routine plays, Mike Tolbert would be banned from the NFL.
"What do you mean you people?"
“What do YOU mean you people?”
"If the 49ers success offends you, so be it." - Jim Harbaugh
If you order a "Cowboys kicker" at the bar, you get a shot of iced Bailey's.
I hope I got the movie right or this doesn't make sense.
Tropic Thunder, right?
"If the 49ers success offends you, so be it." - Jim Harbaugh
If you order a "Cowboys kicker" at the bar, you get a shot of iced Bailey's.
+1
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
Yeah, like Lambert used to say "put dresses on the quarterbacks"
I do think QB’s need to be marked differently, and the same rules should apply to all of them. Vick was complaining that he doesn’t get the calls Brady or Peyton get. I mean Brady, all he has to do is protest just 1 second, and any ref just obliges him- he has a lot of clout. Ben doesn’t get any of that- you are allowed to break his nose, slug him, punch him, but you will never see a roughing the passer on a violent play on Ben.
Ben is not nearly as pretty as Tom
Brady is in his own league. Not fair to compare. There does need to be more consistency at the referee level.
I think everybody should punch Ben before every game kickoff.
Fat rapist deserves it.
Thank you for adding to this conversation
Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever
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There’s a lot of stuff we wouldn’t have to clean up if the city provided basic human rights, like a Port-A-Potty.
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by LV Steelers Fan on Dec 13, 2011 2:20 PM PST up reply actions
http://www.baldwincountyga.com/da.htm
Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever
-Napoleon Bonaparte
There’s a lot of stuff we wouldn’t have to clean up if the city provided basic human rights, like a Port-A-Potty.
-OWS Protester
Cornell University Class of 2014
by LV Steelers Fan on Dec 13, 2011 4:02 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, fat rapist paid off the only witness, and cops did not anything.
That is how it works indeed.
Ben is still a scum.
Even better, is the more whining that is done about it, the happier I am. You can make all the conclusions you want with as little evidence/fact as you want. It don’t change a thing
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Who the hell's interrupting my Kung Fu? - Black Dynamite
With two D's, for a double dose of this pimpin'
Glad that you are happy for rapists.
And the only whine I have heard here is from Steelers fans.
Right, that’s a solid and logical conclusion you made there. I have definitely stated that I am happy for rapists.
Yes, fat rapist paid off the only witness, and cops did not anything.
That is how it works indeed.
Ben is still a scum.
Looks like whining to me.
I HAVE the memo
With two D's, for a double dose of this pimpin'
Looks like stating the truth to me.
Sorry that the truth got you all bellyaching.
by the way, your name is very appropriate. Good thing you’re in the minority on your blog. Everyone else on here….awesome
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Who the hell's interrupting my Kung Fu? - Black Dynamite
With two D's, for a double dose of this pimpin'
Alex gets even less calls than Ben
Heck, he gets even less calls than John Friggin Skelton…like i mentioned above, pretty much the same exact play happened to both QB’s, except Skelton gets a 15 yard penalty called for him and a TD off of it, and Smith gets nada
by sanfranfanmdk on Dec 13, 2011 2:20 PM PST up reply actions
I completely disagree with the suspension
It was a little rough, but I’ve seen much worse. It really is his rep, that kills him
It was a LOT rough
But I agree with you on the suspension.
That said, in looking at the replay, Harrison had enough time to pull up, or to try to make a play on the ball. He went for the spear, and considering the extent to which Goodell has targeted him over the past year or two, can’t claim to be shocked by this, even if it is BS>
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Dec 13, 2011 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
People need to watch the hit on Colt McCoy again.
Seriously, he ran out of the pocket and threw it.
He didn’t duck his head he wasn’t running far.
Harrison very noticeably tried to hurt the quarterback. McCoy got the ball out of his hand cleanly while Harrison put his helmet into McCoys.
Harrison should be suspended. He can’t be justified no matter how you spin the facts, get over it and learn to wrap up tackle someone
End of story.
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they’re bigger than everybody else, and that’s what makes them the biggest guys on the field." ~ John Madden
by 49erfannm on Dec 13, 2011 12:04 PM PST via mobile reply actions
i guess by people i mean anyone trying to justify that hit.
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they’re bigger than everybody else, and that’s what makes them the biggest guys on the field." ~ John Madden
by 49erfannm on Dec 13, 2011 12:06 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Aren't most defenders trying to punish the guy with the ball?
He should try to punish them with a hard hit. That’s football.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Hey end of story buddy.
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they’re bigger than everybody else, and that’s what makes them the biggest guys on the field." ~ John Madden
by 49erfannm on Dec 13, 2011 12:17 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
No, defenders should be trying to play the game by the rules.
Whether you like it or not, those are the rules, and Harrison clearly violated it.
Those rules are there for a purpose. It sucks a lot to lose a QB during the season. There is no need to “punish” QBs in this manner. It is bad for the game. It is a fine game without any extra violence.
If some spice is needed – go the hockey route, just let the guys to punch it out ofter a whistle and sit out the next series. And you would not be punching it out with the skill guys. (Though there are guys like Crowe..)
You know who worries me as much as James Harrison though (whether or not he plays)
how bout the other side of the ball, Wallace and Brown tho.
Harrison should play MNF....
Kinda weak that he’s getting suspended. He pays a fine let him play.
His suspension might NOT be enough to stop PIT from getting to the QB. I really hope that Staley plays but then again he’s a part of the OL that gave up 9 sacks to BAL and 18 sacks in the last 3 games but then again Snyder was out in that BAL game so we have to give Chilo Rachal his salute there. The SF O-line needs to get its act together before the MNF game. Whether or not Harrison plays should be irrelevant bc PIT will bring the pressure one way or another.
Like IRONxMIKE said….. dudes like Wallace & Brown do scare me…. is BR gunna be back there lookin pretty picking our pass defense apart?
I hope our Niners show up Monday.
by 49er Faithful925 on Dec 13, 2011 12:32 PM PST reply actions
Non 49ers/Steelers fans agree...
This is a better Monday Night Matchup than Rams vs. Seahawks. Skittles and all!
I called this happening...
bq.
An interesting question??
Will James Harrison be suspended for the hit on Colt McCoy? I know NFL is on this guy like a hawk,with his prior history.
Niners,Nets,Reds & USC!!!
The Most Interesting Man In The World——>Mikhail Prokhorov!!!
by Kidd2Petrovic on Dec 9, 2011 9:23 AM PST replyactions
Goddell has a soft spot in his heart for this guy!!
Niners,Nets,Reds & USC!!!
The Most Interesting Man In The World---->Mikhail Prokhorov!!!
Maybe he's just stupid
I mean, how many times can you get fined/suspended for the same sort of thing before you quit doing it?
"Can Manchester United score? They always score... Peter Schmeichel is forward... Beckham, in towards Schmeichel- it's come for Dwight Yorke. Cleared... Giggs with a shot- SHERINGHAM!"
As long as those fine and wage loss are a small fraction of your paycheck...
…that you earn for doing that thing, why would you ever stop?
The hit in question.
Has Harrison been targeted by the NFL/officials? Absolutely, 100%. Many of the hits, particularly ones immediately following his first offense were garbage. Many of these hits being called throughout the league are garbage.
I made an estimate a few weeks ago, I thought about 50-60% of them were being called correctly and the rest were either questionable, as in the offensive player ducked/moved as the hit was happening, or just looked bad at full speed, but actually was clean. Which led me to the point I made, the majority of the time the officials are guessing. It really bothers me when it affects a team, keeping a drive alive (which has probably happened to every team in the league at least once, I know it has to the 9ers) and then come the next week no fine is issued. Which is basically saying the NFL is admitting it was a clean hit.
All that said, Harrison’s hit is one of the most clear cut ones I’ve seen this year. Whether he thinks McCoy is running the ball and he throws it at the last second is completely irrelevant, he clearly leads with the helmet and launches upward, there is simply no explanation for him not dipping his shoulder wrapping his arms and tackling McCoy. The impact would have been just the same, but without the added danger of helmet to helmet contact. He wouldn’t have been fined or suspended. McCoy did not duck or move into it like some WRs have the questionable ones. Is his intent to hurt McCoy? I highly doubt it, though we can’t know his true intent. However, we can clearly see he made no effort to wrap up, hell he didn’t bother using his arms at all, he just turned his body into a projectile capped with a very dangerous weapon (helmet).
His reaction to some of the fines he’s been issued is understandable to an extent, but the ones that were legitimate penalties received the same incredulity from him. This is why he is running into problems, it has much less to do with the actual hits at this point. It is quite clear he doesn’t get it, hence the suspension.
Attack this day with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind. ~ Jack Harbaugh
by Virginia9er on Dec 13, 2011 5:47 PM PST reply actions 2 recs

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