Alex Smith The Black Cloud? Or Jim Harbaugh The Ray Of Sunshine?
Disclaimer: Before folks start rolling out the beating of dead horse .gif's, stop and take a second to think about quarterback situations across the league. This certainly is not just another Alex Smith post, but will dip in to several other topics that surround the quarterback subject as well.
Alex Smith, since drafted, has been the Rodney Dangerfield of the league receiving NO RESPECT!! Have the results he has put out warranted it? Probably. Has it been totally his fault? Who knows at this point?
High standards from 1979 to 1999 (20 years) set high expectations at the quarterback position for anyone that has followed. Joe Montana and Steve Young are two of the best quarterbacks to ever play the game, possibly even the two best. From 1999 and thereafter, the talent at the quarterback position has not come close to either one of those two guys for the 49ers. Two decades worth of excellence followed by over a decade of sub-par play is enough for most Forty-Niners fans to walk to their bridge of choice (The Bay Bridge, or the Golden Gate) and bungee jump off without the bungee. It has been a tough road and difficult to be a fan to say the least.
When Bill Walsh handed the keys over to George Seifert, things definitely felt different despite the continuity of winning. It's not a knock on Seifert. In his own light, he did extremely well and went on to win two Superbowls. It just felt different, no other way to explain it, but if you were fan at the time you understand the point. And when Steve Young retired with no real option as a "franchise quarterback" waiting in the wings to take the passing of the torch, things have been spiraling downward in what seems like has been a never-ending dark abyss.
When the hands of ownership changed from Eddie DeBartolo to John and Denise York, the structure and foundation of the franchise has been about as stable as the ground that lays on top of the San Andreas Fault. But in the last year or two, it seems that the York's son Jed, has been trying his best to bring back the tradition of what the older generation of 49ers fans were used to. The bottom line is that every decision made effects the outcome of every decision. January 7th, 2011 the 49ers and Team President Jed York hired former Stanford Head Coach Jim Harbaugh...
For the last five years, 49ers fans have struggled with support of all the ups and downs that Alex Smith has showcased. There are all the arguments of whether or not changing playbooks, offensive coordinators, quarterbacks coaches, etc has had an impact, if any at all on the way Smith approaches and plays the game. On one side you have all the "winner" arguments, and on the other side you have all the "stats" arguments. If the two don't go hand and hand, there is either work to be done, or a player (or team for that matter) is just not that good. But it still raises the question, just how much does coaching impact the results? In the decade before the Walsh era, also partially led by a Nolan, (Dick), the San Francisco 49ers had a 69-82 record. It just goes to show that coaching could very well play a huge factor in a teams success and the turning around of a franchise.
After the jump, three things will be looked at. First, the quarterback position itself with the focus being on Alex Smith. Next, the coaching changes with the focus being on Jim Harbaugh. And last, a summary and brief look at the 49ers potential in the upcoming season.
THE QUARTERBACK POSITION
Reports on NFL Network yesterday scrolled across the bottom of the screen stating that 49ers new Head Coach, Jim Harbaugh has been in several meetings with the now free agent quarterback Alex Smith which alludes to the possibility of an Alex Smith return. If any of you caught that, especially those who are extremely opposed to Smith as an option next year, you may have felt the burn of bile in the back of your throats. On the other side of that spectrum, there are those who think Jim Harbaugh is going to wave his magic wand and fix everything across the board. Which ever side of the fence you are on, to one extreme or the other, the only thing that is going to matter in the end is the outcome.
Should Harbaugh bring Smith back to mold him in to the player he thinks he can be, should 49ers fans trust that? Or has Smith shown too much on the field to create enough doubt for a complete abandonment? Or is this just simply a lack of options and the 49ers are that desperate?
Quarterbacks are by and large the most important position on the field. Some people may feel that not one player is any less than the other. This is a team sport, but on every team their are leaders and captians. The quarterbacks job is to lead the offense... and in some cases to rally the entire team.
History has shown that sometimes it just takes some guys a bit more time to get things going. Part of the idea of this post was to take a look at some quarterbacks who have struggled early on, but then went on to have incredible success after either their situation changed, they were provided with a new opportunity somewhere else, or came in to their own after they matured. Three out of the six quarterbacks featured here, are now in the Hall of Fame. Alex Smith has played in the league for five years now. He was a young 21-years-old when he was drafted, and will enter his 6th season at 27-years-old. Since Alex Smith has only been in the league for five years, the players first five years will be illustrated for comparison purposes.
The first player that will be looked at is one of the Hall of Famer's and in many ways faced a bunch of adversity his first few years as well.
* = Hall of Fame
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*STEVE YOUNG |
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YEAR |
TEAM |
GAMES |
COMP |
ATT |
PCT |
YARDS |
AVG |
TD |
LONG |
INT |
RATING |
|
1985 |
TB |
5 |
72 |
138 |
52.2 |
935 |
6.8 |
3 |
59 |
8 |
56.9 |
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1986 |
TB |
14 |
195 |
363 |
53.7 |
2282 |
6.3 |
8 |
46 |
13 |
65.5 |
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1987 |
SF |
8 |
37 |
69 |
53.6 |
570 |
8.3 |
10 |
50 |
0 |
120.8 |
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1988 |
SF |
11 |
54 |
101 |
53.5 |
680 |
6.7 |
3 |
73 |
3 |
72.2 |
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1989 |
SF |
10 |
64 |
92 |
69.6 |
1001 |
11 |
8 |
50 |
3 |
120.8 |
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48 |
422 |
763 |
56.52 |
5468 |
7.8 |
32 |
73 |
27 |
87.24 |
Summary: Young had a very rocky start. Similar to Smith, he was drafted by one of the worst franchises in the NFL and was never given a fighting chance. His surroundings were not worthy of even being considered real NFL talent. The front office and ownership of the Bucs during the mid-80's were eerily similar to the one that has been in place for San Francisco in the last decade. There was little question that Steve Young was considered to be a very raw quarterback. In 1987, Bill Walsh took a flier on Young and saw the unlimited potential that the quarterback possessed. But there was another obstacle for Young the size of the state of Montana.
Young was very fortunate to sit behind the likes of a Joe Montana. But just about every time he stepped on the field to replace Joe when he was injured the former BYU quarterback was often booed. Sound familiar? In any case, I suppose that we as 49ers fans were just used to excellence. Go figure.
By analyzing Young's first five years and stats above, you would have never guessed that he would be a first-ballot Hall of Famer at the time. It wasn't until Young was in his 7th season (1991) that he really started to blossom. At that time, Young was 30-years old.
The next player is also a Hall of Famer. His accomplishments were remarkable, but not until he went through some growing pains. Some pundits and experts at the time speculated that he would be traded the year prior to leading his team to the Superbowl.
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*JOHN ELWAY |
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YEAR |
TEAM |
GAMES |
COMP |
ATT |
PCT |
YARDS |
AVG |
TD |
LONG |
INT |
RATING |
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1983 |
DEN |
11 |
123 |
259 |
47.5 |
1663 |
6.4 |
7 |
49 |
14 |
54.9 |
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1984 |
DEN |
15 |
214 |
380 |
56.3 |
2598 |
6.8 |
18 |
73 |
15 |
76.8 |
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1985 |
DEN |
16 |
327 |
605 |
54.1 |
3891 |
6.4 |
22 |
65 |
23 |
70.2 |
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1986 |
DEN |
16 |
280 |
504 |
55.6 |
3485 |
6.9 |
19 |
53 |
13 |
79 |
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1987 |
DEN |
12 |
224 |
410 |
54.6 |
3198 |
7.8 |
19 |
72 |
12 |
83.4 |
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70 |
1168 |
2158 |
53.62 |
14835 |
6.86 |
85 |
73 |
77 |
72.86 |
Summary: John Elway was originally drafted by the Baltimore Colts but demanded a trade to the Denver Broncos. Elway was a two sport athlete coming out of Stanford and was drafted out of high school to play for the Kansas City Royals (which he did not). Elway came in to the league slanging the ball around with the accuracy of a Palco Firepower M4A1 (hint: not very accurate), but later on his career leveled out after about 5 years to have the precision of a S-60 Sniper Rifle (hint: extremely accurate). Elway went on to have a phenomenal career leading the Broncos to multiple playoff appearances and a Superbowl win in 1998 over the Green Bay Packers.
He never looked back and always looked forward. He stared adversity in the eye and always believed in himself regardless of what others were saying.
Cockiness and arrogance would be two fairly accurate words to describe this next quarterback. His swagger lead to more wins than his natural ability alone. He is also in the Hall of Fame. The nickname "Broadway" couldn't have been anymore fitting.
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*JOE NAMATH |
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YEAR |
TEAM |
GAMES |
COMP |
ATT |
PCT |
YARDS |
AVG |
TD |
LONG |
INT |
RATING |
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1965 |
NYJ |
9 |
164 |
340 |
48.2 |
2220 |
6.5 |
18 |
62 |
15 |
68.7 |
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1966 |
NYJ |
14 |
232 |
471 |
49.3 |
3379 |
7.2 |
19 |
77 |
27 |
62.6 |
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1967 |
NYJ |
14 |
258 |
491 |
52.5 |
4007 |
8.2 |
26 |
75 |
28 |
73.8 |
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1968 |
NYJ |
14 |
187 |
380 |
49.2 |
3147 |
8.3 |
15 |
87 |
17 |
72.1 |
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1969 |
NYJ |
14 |
185 |
361 |
51.2 |
2734 |
7.6 |
19 |
60 |
17 |
74.9 |
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65 |
1026 |
2043 |
50.08 |
15487 |
7.56 |
97 |
87 |
104 |
70.42 |
Summary: In 1967, Namath seemed to have bucked the concept of him not being able to make it by throwing for over 4000 yards (a record that was held for 12 years after when Dan Fouts broke it). Although he accomplished that feat, he still managed to throw more interceptions than he did touchdowns. In his first five years, he only managed above a 50% completion rate twice. Through his first five years, he 17 more interceptions than he did touchdowns.
Namath was not the best statistical quarterback to ever play the game, nor was he considered to be bad. But he helped his team, after the early on struggles of adapting to he league, to become contenders with his "never-say-die" attitude. He went on to have several achievements which include, but are not limited to a guaranteed victory over the Baltimore Colts in 1969.
Namath finished his career with a 63-69 and 4 record. Most of those losses came in the early portion of Namath's career. He was still inducted in to the Hall of Fame.
Highly touted out of college with a surplus of hype, this next quarterback took his team all the way to the Superbowl in 2000 just to fall a yard and a half short of winning the big game. There's no denying that he wound up having a very above par career. But it started off with rough road and a lot of adjustments. He never had any coaching changes and he had the same quarterbacks coach for the first five years, yet people still believed in him after a bumpy first few years.
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STEVE MCNAIR |
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YEAR |
TEAM |
GAMES |
COMP |
ATT |
PCT |
YARDS |
AVG |
TD |
LONG |
INT |
RATING |
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1995 |
TEN |
4 |
41 |
80 |
51.3 |
569 |
7.1 |
3 |
53 |
1 |
81.7 |
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1996 |
TEN |
9 |
88 |
143 |
61.5 |
1197 |
8.4 |
6 |
83 |
4 |
90.6 |
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1997 |
TEN |
16 |
216 |
415 |
52 |
2665 |
6.4 |
14 |
55 |
13 |
70.4 |
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1998 |
TEN |
16 |
289 |
492 |
58.7 |
3228 |
6.6 |
15 |
47 |
10 |
80.1 |
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1999 |
TEN |
11 |
187 |
331 |
56.5 |
2179 |
6.6 |
12 |
65 |
8 |
78.6 |
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56 |
821 |
1461 |
56 |
9838 |
7.02 |
50 |
83 |
36 |
80.28 |
Summary: It was a shame in what happened to Steve McNair in his personal life post-football. But on the field, he was a natural born player (not punny). He was originally drafted as a Houston Oiler, but the team during his tenure moved to Tennessee. In his 6th year, he finally went over the 60% completion percentage mark. From that year on, his completion rate continued to go up. Little by little he showed progress throughout his career.
McNair may never make it to the Hall of Fame, but he was a very good quarterback in the league. He appeared in three pro bowls (2000, 2003, and 2005). He was selected as an all-pro in 2003 and also earned AP MVP honors. In 1994, McNair was nominated and was named the Walter Payton Award winner.
It goes to show that persistence will help a player overcome just about any struggle.
Arizona State has not produced too many quarterbacks that have done well in the pro's. This quarterback is definitely the exception. His struggles were well documented early on though. Even if he had the ability to slither his way out of trouble like a snake, his passing ability didn't come around like most thought it would until he had a change of scenery.
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JAKE PLUMMER |
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YEAR |
TEAM |
GAMES |
COMP |
ATT |
PCT |
YARDS |
AVG |
TD |
LONG |
INT |
RATING |
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1997 |
ARI |
10 |
157 |
296 |
53 |
2203 |
7.4 |
15 |
70 |
15 |
73.1 |
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1998 |
ARI |
16 |
324 |
547 |
59.2 |
3737 |
6.8 |
17 |
57 |
20 |
75 |
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1999 |
ARI |
12 |
201 |
381 |
52.8 |
2111 |
5.5 |
9 |
63 |
24 |
50.8 |
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2000 |
ARI |
14 |
270 |
475 |
56.8 |
2946 |
6.2 |
13 |
70 |
21 |
66 |
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2001 |
ARI |
16 |
304 |
525 |
57.9 |
3653 |
7 |
18 |
68 |
14 |
79.6 |
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|
68 |
1256 |
2224 |
55.94 |
14650 |
6.58 |
72 |
70 |
94 |
68.9 |
Summary: The snake never made it to a Superbowl, and he will never be considered a Hall of Fame quarterback. Not even close. But he was definitely a good quarterback that got a bad wrap because of his bad surroundings in Arizona. He wasn't traded until his 7th season. But the last 4 years of his career were perhaps his best.
Plummer made it as an alternate to the pro bowl in 1998 and 2005. Had he been groomed correctly, and had a better supporting cast, who knows what would have been?
The very last quarterback we will take a look at recently was given a head coaching job in the NFL. He did not have the most illustrious career, but wound up having a fairly successful career. He played a role as a back up here and there throughout his career. Toward the end, this quarterback was a starter. A very good starter. He played for five teams and finished his career with 26,288 yards and 129 touchdown passes.
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JIM HARBAUGH |
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YEAR |
TEAM |
GAMES |
COMP |
ATT |
PCT |
YARDS |
AVG |
TD |
LONG |
INT |
RATING |
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1987 |
CHI |
6 |
8 |
11 |
72.7 |
62 |
5.6 |
0 |
21 |
0 |
86.2 |
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1988 |
CHI |
10 |
47 |
97 |
48.5 |
514 |
5.3 |
0 |
56 |
2 |
55.9 |
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1989 |
CHI |
12 |
111 |
178 |
62.4 |
1204 |
6.8 |
5 |
49 |
9 |
70.5 |
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1990 |
CHI |
14 |
180 |
312 |
57.7 |
2178 |
7 |
10 |
80 |
6 |
81.9 |
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1991 |
CHI |
16 |
275 |
478 |
57.5 |
3121 |
6.5 |
15 |
84 |
16 |
73.7 |
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58 |
621 |
1076 |
59.76 |
7079 |
6.24 |
30 |
84 |
33 |
73.64 |
Summary: As you can see, the first five years were not pretty. The first three he spent in a back up role. Harbaugh's career twisted like a raging roller coaster. He understood the game very well, yet he still never could get the respect he could have potentially had.
He now is the 49ers head coach and has the opportunity to work with a guy that resembles a career he is very familiar with in his own. Could it be possible that Harbaugh looks at smith and feels this way about him? Does he feel like he has a great opportunity to be the savior of Alex's career? The most important question is, in looking at the film and talking to Alex, does he feel like he is the 49ers franchise quarterback? Or just a stop gap?
Alex Smith has similarities with all of the quarterbacks listed above. Whether you dislike him as a player, he has always maintained a positive attitude and dealt with a truck load of adversity. What is done is done and cannot be undone. To sit here and speculate what would've happened had he been drafted to a stable franchise cannot be anything more than speculation. Wherever he goes from here is also speculation. He can follow the road to failure, and he can follow the road to success. But one thing is for sure, Harbaugh may be the best coaching candidate this franchise has seen since Walsh and Seifert left.
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ALEX SMITH |
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YEAR |
TEAM |
GAMES |
COMP |
ATT |
PCT |
YARDS |
AVG |
TD |
LONG |
INT |
RATING |
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2005 |
SF |
9 |
84 |
165 |
50.9 |
875 |
5.3 |
1 |
47 |
11 |
40.8 |
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2006 |
SF |
16 |
257 |
442 |
58.1 |
2890 |
6.5 |
16 |
75 |
16 |
74.8 |
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2007 |
SF |
7 |
94 |
193 |
48.7 |
914 |
4.7 |
2 |
45 |
4 |
57.2 |
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2009 |
SF |
11 |
225 |
372 |
60.5 |
2350 |
6.3 |
18 |
73 |
12 |
81.5 |
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2010 |
SF |
11 |
204 |
342 |
59.6 |
2370 |
6.9 |
14 |
62 |
10 |
82.1 |
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54 |
864 |
1514 |
55.56 |
9399 |
5.94 |
51 |
75 |
53 |
67.28 |
Final Summary:
Coach Harbaugh recently had very positive things to say about Alex Smith, "So excited, yeah, I'm going to say it, I've been studying Alex Smith and watching him and I believe that Alex Smith can be a winning quarterback in the National Football League," Harbaugh said on Sports 1140 AM in Sacramento via Eric Branch of the Santa Rosa Press Democrat. "I'm excited to work with him, get to know him."
Sometimes it is hard to seperate fluff from truth. The public comments could be driven by a lack of options, as well as the CBA negotiations (or lack there of an agreement yet). Whether the 49ers are going to bring him back is still up in the air. More importantly, Alex Smith would need to be sold on reasons to come back. If Harbaugh can sell Smith on the idea, and it is the best situation for both parties, I would imagine that we see #11 in red and gold once again as the starter in the upcoming season... should there be one.
By looking at Smith's stats above, and taking ALL things in to consideration, is it safe to assume that his career has just been a black cloud over San Francisco, or will Jim Harbaugh be the ray of sunshine that comes in to Alex Smith's life and gives birth to Smith's career finally?
BILL WALSH VS. JIM HARBAUGH
Really the only comparison's that should be drawn at this point are that they both coached at Stanford, they both run/ ran a version of the west-coast-offense, and that they were both 47-years old when they took over as the 49ers head coach.
Today's version of the west-coast-offense will be much more complex than they one Walsh installed in 1979 with the 49ers. Today's league has evolved, therefore some of the same things that were used back then, aren't going to be today. The Tampa 2 defense was made specifically to shut that down. However, the general concepts will be installed by Harbaugh.
There are a bunch of differences in Bill Walsh and Jim Harbaugh. Walsh's resume was a bit deeper when he took over the franchise. Walsh was a boxer, while Harbaugh played 13 years in the NFL as a quarterback. Walsh had experience in the NFL before taking over the 49ers. But their understanding of the game is very similar despite the different back grounds that they came from.
Jim Harbaugh comes from strong coaching bloodlines. His father (Jack), and brother (John) are both head football coaches. John has lead the Baltimore Ravens to a few playoff appearances, yet has still been able to get over the hump in the playoffs. Although he does not come from the same bloodline, Harbaugh's brother-in-law (Tom Crean), is the head coach of the Indiana Hoosiers basketball team. I am sure that the conversations sitting around the dinner table during the holiday's would be nothing short of intriguing.
In essence, yes, there are some similarities between Walsh and Harbaugh. But there is not enough of them for folks go out and start calling him the second coming of Bill Walsh. Note: There will never be another Bill Walsh. He died in 2007. If people can put aside the comparison's and look at things in a first coming of Jim Harbaugh sort of way, then expectations will not be let down, much like they have been with the quarterback position.
Ultimately, Jim Harbaugh will have to make a call on who he wants to lead the 2011-'12 San Francisco 49ers. It is going to take a very intelligent quarterback to grasp this new offense. We all know that Smith was a film rat and is considered to be one of the more intellectual quarterbacks in the league. That certainly won't hurt matters should the 49ers stick with Smith.
As fans, you will be faced with two decisions should Smith return. The first one is to wipe the slate clean and trust the new head coach. Or continue the negative outlook that has resonated throughout the fan base in regards to Alex Smith. That's it. Plain and simple.
THE UPCOMING SEASON
Vince Lombardi said it best, "Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing - the result".
386 comments
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3 recs |
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Comments
NO ALEX!
He may be a film rat and he may be intelligent but he is not accurate, his brain turns to sludge the moment the ball is snapped and his signature play remains the rollout to the right and throw the ball out of bounds.
I have seen enough and Smith has had enough time to develop into something other than a loser. He has not. If Urban Meyer was correct, and he has to have every nuance of an offense down pat before he can be effective, what reason do we have to think he can assimilate Harbaugh’s offense, now or ever? Are we willing to wait for this utterly slow learner (results people, results) or would we rather get someone in here with some accuracy and pocket sense?
I’ve had enough of Alex Smith. I believe if he re-signs with the 49ers, they will lose 30,000 season ticket sales that day. Let Alex go.
This post showed numerous HOF QBs that took a long time to develop.
Also look at all the top QBs and see how many systems they ran so far in their NFL career.
Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3
by manraj7 on Feb 10, 2011 8:15 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Quit making Alexcuses. He’s a loser.
by 5e3deluxe on Feb 10, 2011 8:24 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Alex is a loser or the team is?
Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3
by manraj7 on Feb 10, 2011 8:27 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Where have I heard that before?
But I don’t totally blame fans who are fed up with Alex. Obviously we haven’t done well with him as QB, whether that’s his fault or not. I just think the whole “Alex is a loser” is the worst pejorative we can use to ruin this debate.
by Rhombus on Feb 10, 2011 8:28 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Results. He has not shown ANY of the attributes of any of the quarterbacks in the post. If Alex comes back, I abandon the 49ers. I’ve had it with suck. Alex sucks. I believe my position is far more common, particularly among season-ticket holders, than the Yorks want to think about.
The only two words I want to see or hear in regard to Alex Smith are “He’s gone.”
And then if Alex comes back, does well, and leads us to the playoffs,
All the season ticket holders will come back. That’s the way it goes. Whether or not you think that can happen, that’s what’s on the the York’s mind. Which is worse: bringing Alex Smith back, or another losing season? Obviously that’s a simplified question and not necessarily either/or, but that’s a legitimate thing to think about.
How about bringing Alex back AND another losing season
They will NEVER win with Alex Smith because he simply is not an NFL-caliber player. I would rather see another losing season if it means I don’t have to see that little jerk with his deer-in-the-headlights look and his goddam roll right-throw it away signature play.
I HATE Alex Smith and if I never hear of him again, it will be too soon. He sucks. He has always sucked, he WILL always suck. I agree with the person who compared him to Tim Couch. Perfect analogy.
You have some real issues
It’s one thing to hate a player but to go around insulting him is just plain wrong.
Better than being delusional
Many of you are apparently unwilling to trust your own eyes and the past six years of losing. I AM willing to trust my eyes. My eyes say ALEX SUCKS and that’s good enough for me. I’m fed up with this little loser and you all must have man-crushes to cut him this much slack. Of course, some of you didn’t want Singletary fired, either.
Your argument has lost all respectability
You have gone on to insult his character. If you have a problem with his playing ability, fine, but you have no right to pick on who he is as a person.
by Ikaros on Feb 10, 2011 8:48 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Hm. Not really a quality argument there, so not much to go on.
But the fact remains he IS an NFL-caliber player: he’s been the best QB option on the team for a while, and he’s put up relatively good numbers for a crappy team. Don’t know what more you could want. But this is my last comment on this particular post, as you seem to be set in your ways. No point in arguing with someone who’s completely made up his mind.
Then you get out there and suit up
Give tha guy a break...I remember losing most of our games because of mistakes by players that did not play the quarterback position.
I'm sure Norv Turner is a good judge of a good QB...even he said the guy can be good w/ quality people around him.
by NewAgecorner1 on Feb 10, 2011 2:58 PM PST up reply actions
In all fairness, we didn't do weel in the 2 years that he was hurt either.
by ericalancanty on Feb 10, 2011 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
not alot of people
seems to awcknoledge the fact that we have played alot better with alex than without him. maybe some of the other players in that locker room weren’t good either including coaches.
by Sippin'onGinn&Juice on Feb 10, 2011 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
Well scoring 0 points is pretty easy to do ovecome
Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3
When Alex is on his game he looks like a pro-bowl calliber qb but if he suddenly has a bad play (or brain fart) his confidince goes to hell and so does the team…sigh…
by ninersince94 on Feb 10, 2011 10:06 AM PST up reply actions
The game I always picture
is the one against Houston last year when he took over for Hill. I had given up on that game then he went on to throw 3 TDs. We still lost but he made it entertaining. Unfortunately, that only shows that he is a good back up but I think he could still be a great starter.
He has no confidence
Confidence is key. If we could make Alex a pretty boy of the media one mistake wouldn’t screw him up.
Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3
this is true
maybe he also didnt have confidence in the coaching staffs ability to get the right play call. because like they said coaches took them in the game with no plan. but at least confidence can be rebuilt
Yes, I have trust in Alex and Harbaugh.
Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3
by manraj7 on Feb 10, 2011 8:13 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Should he be brought back?
Possibly, but should he be handed the starter’s job? No. I think he should have to compete for that role. I will say this in Alex Smith’s defense: it will be nice for the QB to have a coach that won’t throw him under the bus. However, it might be best for both Smith and the 49ers to turn the page.
by Andrew Davidson on Feb 10, 2011 8:13 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Alex Smith vs David Carr
Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3
by manraj7 on Feb 10, 2011 8:16 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Agree
I thought the options in the vote were too polemic. I voted No because I wouldn’t want him back as starter, but that doesn’t mean I think he is beyond help. I think he’d be a good back-up for a high draft pick – that’s what I want to see happen.
Nice piece btw.
In the throes of a Jim Harbaugh man crush since 1/7/11
this all the way
definitely don’t think he should be handed the job, but if he sticks around I have enough faith in Harbaugh as a coach that I never had in Nolan or Singletary. If anyone can help Alex realize his potential I think Harbaugh can be that guy.
NOT TO BE THE STARTER, NO
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
Excellent analysis. But what do we know?
With all the speculation and anger flying around, it really boils down to this: No one really knows that he can or can’t be good. He’s never been in a position where he could excel, but on the other hand he’s only shown flashes of potential to do so. This article does a good job of pointing out that, historically, he’s not alone and he could do well. But I’m sure there are other examples of mediocre QBs who didn’t do well on bad teams and ended up not doing well for the rest of their careers. The real question is, can the NINERS become a good team, with or without Smith?
I, for one, have no trust in Harbaugh or Alex. I don’t mistrust them, either. Each new season is something completely different, and just because Alex hasn’t shined doesn’t mean he can’t, with proper coaching, playcalling, etc. We’ll see if Harbaugh and his new staff can provide that.
My best-case scenario is drafting a QB this year, Alex playing WELL and staying as starting QB for the next 4 or 5 seasons, and then having our drafted QB have those years to learn the system, stay on the bench and assume a backup role. This would help avoid the same mistakes we made at the position 6 years ago. We’ll see if Alex is up for the task. Let’s hope so, for everyone’s sake.
by Rhombus on Feb 10, 2011 8:22 AM PST reply actions 5 recs
Trust (rec)
Hard to trust Alex Smith because many times as a fan he has come up short.
Hard to trust Harbaugh because of the uncertainty of what his reputation going to be as an NFL coach.
Unfortuately, Alex Smith & Harbaugh with drafting a QB to mold into eventual starter might be the best solution in 2011 & the future.
Niners,Nets,Reds & USC!!!
"The future belongs to those who prepare for it today." - Malcolm X
by Kidd2Petrovic on Feb 10, 2011 10:24 AM PST up reply actions
I am glad someone got the concept of the post here.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Concept is a good one!!
Unfortuately, you are asking niner fans to try to think rationaly about a SORE subject in Alex Smith. The very thought fo it can be sickening at times w/ everything that has gone on in the last 8yrs.
P.S. Man I miss Mooch, 2002 was the last year that was good to us ;-)
Niners,Nets,Reds & USC!!!
"The future belongs to those who prepare for it today." - Malcolm X
by Kidd2Petrovic on Feb 10, 2011 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
It's been way too long.
We need a breath of fresh air… Hopefully this new coaching staff can overcome the growing pains of installing all their methods sooner than later.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Amen 2 that!!
Want to look @ this new Harbaugh Regime as that. Their own methods/ideology coupled with hopeful success that it brings.
I do not want to compare him to walsh regime what so ever. Its an unfair assessment!!
Niners,Nets,Reds & USC!!!
"The future belongs to those who prepare for it today." - Malcolm X
by Kidd2Petrovic on Feb 10, 2011 1:05 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, Walsh was in a league of his own..
I will be happy if Harbaugh is even able to have the same success as his brother over there in Baltimore.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
B-more Success
If Harbaugh can help in changing the Niners mentality back to a constant NFC contender, such as his bro John is doing Im sure this alot of prayers will be answered with the Niner fan base.
I mean this is what most of us fans are looking for; a first rate high quality organization that wins on a consistent basis. Something that most of us Niner fans took for granted in the 80’s & 90’s. Hopefully Jed & Co is working back towards that goal. Unfortuately Jed & Co is learning as they go so we as fans have to bear the ups & downs as they go.
Niners,Nets,Reds & USC!!!
"The future belongs to those who prepare for it today." - Malcolm X
by Kidd2Petrovic on Feb 10, 2011 2:57 PM PST up reply actions
I agree
Give tha guy a break...I remember losing most of our games because of mistakes by players that did not play the quarterback position.
I'm sure Norv Turner is a good judge of a good QB...even he said the guy can be good w/ quality people around him.
by NewAgecorner1 on Feb 10, 2011 2:59 PM PST up reply actions
We have been let down by Alex over the years.....
But, I still want to give him a shot because our options suck. I am not a fan of giving draft picks to trade for a QB; unless it is one of the top 5 or so QB’s. Especially with the situation with the CBA. I am not opposed to getting Johnson from Tampa, but still maintain Alex. Give Alex a shoot under JH, draft 2 QBs this year and one next year. One of those drafted will be our QBOTF.
But let those drafted stay on the bench, please.
You rush a rusty draft pick, you risk losing any potential they had. Jimmy Clausen and Alex come to mind, but I’m sure there are others. Obviously there are the Peyton Mannings of the world, but besides Luck there’s no one that fits that description in the coming years.
point taken, but
no shot with jh. considering the cba, other options are terribly. What if we got any of those guys, kolb, orten, etc, one week before the first game?
So did the 6 other QB's I posted above. 3 of which are now in the HOF
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
I already did
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
No, but the point was simple and easy to understand.
Pretty sure a majority of the folks here understood it.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
If they are gonna do anything of the drafting nature
They need to bring Alex back if they can, then they should draft Kaepernick in the 2nd/3rd this year and pick up one of the great, top prospects next year.
If they can’t bring Alex back… Orton or Johnson.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 10, 2011 2:09 PM PST up reply actions
I've always thought that Alex could be a good QB
He just needed the right environment to thrive. I hope that if he is brought back, Harbaugh provides him with that right environment and Alex realizes his potential.
I believe that Alex does know his potential.
But having coaches like Mike Nolan and Mike Singletary have hand cuffed him in a sense.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Time for a change. CBA is the blame for this
I do not want to see our new coach with Smith. We both need to go in another direction. Six years is long enough and I am sure Alex is smart enough to understand that. But I would rather bring in Johnson and Troy than go another year with Alex Smith at the helms.
I'm in business to give the business and business is booming!
Without the labor uncertainties
this probably wouldn’t even be an issue. Harbaugh would be able to grab the veteran QB he wants and start the process of putting together the offense. Alex could go to a team with a fan base that doesn’t include those who go ballistic after every one of his incompletions and try to rebuild his career.
Do you think that Alex's reputation here is irreparable?
It’s a legitimate question. No matter how well he does, it’s possible niners fans will never accept him as the starter, and assume someone else could do better. I mean, look at Troy. He really sucked, and somehow niners fans still wanted him. If Alex is our starter and we do pretty well, I don’t think that’s enough. We have to EXCEL, and go deep into the playoffs within the next two years if Alex is to improve his image among some of the more stubborn fans (5e3deluxe, throw your hands up!).
For Alex’s sake, maybe he should go elsewhere. But as a Niners fan who wants the team to do well, I have no problem with him staying another year, and see what he’s got.
TO get me he has to do what Aaron Rodgers just did
This year or whenever they play again. This team is not about going 9-7 and squeaking into the playoffs. This team is about at least competing for the Super Bowl every year and nothing else is acceptable. I was asking during the season, ‘do you want to limp into the playoffs, only to be destroyed in the wild card round?’
Yes it happened during the Joe and Steve days but at least they won 10 games. The shame of making the playoffs with a losing record is something I’m very glad we avoided.
I have to believe most of you are too young to truly appreciate how great the 49ers were during the dynasty, because you’re making excuses for a quarterback who is not fit to carry Jeff Garcia’s lunch pail, much less fill his shoes. I won’t put Joe or Steve in the same sentence with that loser.
The 49ers will never be a playoff team with Alex Smith at quarterback, because he is not fit to be an NFL quarterback. He is SLOW in his decision-making, always has been, and I see no reason to believe he will ever be anything but slow. He is intelligent, I grant you that, but he has no instinct, no pocket presence, no ability to look off one target and hit another and without those things, you cannot be an NFL-caliber QB. Simple as that.
Now THESE are legitimate and respectable points.
After going through the Young and Montana eras, it’s hard to accept being middle-to-lower end contenders for wild-card spots. And we shouldn’t accept it. But remember that we were pretty much the worst team in the league at times this decade, and never reached top 15 status in all that time. These things take time to develop.
That being said, every team’s ultimate goal is to contend for the Super Bowl. In that, I agree. I, as a fan, will not accept anything less than a Super Bowl ring: if we don’t reach that goal, we continue to improve until we do.
As for Alex, your hyperbole is recognized. To say he has no instinct, no pocket presence, and no ability to look off a receiver is untrue. To say he does not have a full grasp of these abilities is very accurate. These are things he has to improve on to be a truly successful quarterback. That’s why people are so high on Harbaugh for. He’s good at teaching those things (obviously, instinct is not teachable, but the point remains). So my advice is, if Alex does come back, lighten up. He’s one of the better options out there. Stick with the Niners and give everyone a chance.
NO
If Alex is brought back, I’m done until he’s gone. He is the poster boy for the last five years of disgracefully awful quarterback play, and I’ve seen enough. If that loser is “one of the better options out there,” (he is not) then the future is indeed, hopeless. I have better things to do with four hours on a Sunday than watch that slow, scared worthless excuse for a quarterback lead us to loss after loss, with no light whatsoever at the end of the tunnel.
he's the poster boy even for the year and a half he didn't play?
clearly emotion is overshadowing a rational analysis of Alex’s ability. Alex Smith is average, that was the point of the stats posted above.
Alex is going into his 7th year, there might be a CBA lockout and it’s him, carr or a newly drafted QB. If those are our options, the yes, Alex Smith will be our best option.
"If Alex is brought back, I’m done until he’s gone"
One less “I hate Alex he sucks he cant play hes no good” thing to read on here every day.
I’m glad at least some of the people on here realize we had a lot more problems than Alex last year. I still was more disappointed with our D than Alex this past season.
"Bears are crazy, Willie. They'll bite your head off if you're wearing steak on it."
you. are really making me hope Alex comes back
Since your standard is Montana you’re going to be waiting for a long time. I just hope that if Alex starts playing well that you stick to your guns and don’t watch because you wouldn’t deserve to enjoy the success
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 11, 2011 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
He is SLOW
He is NOT accurate, he telegraphs passes, he gets his receivers killed with passes too high. He should not be in the NFL and if he is, that speaks more to the stupidity of NFL front offices than it does Alex Smith.
Really?
He should not be in the NFL and if he is, that speaks more to the stupidity of NFL front offices than it does Alex Smith.
While I’m sure you know more than anyone in an NFL front office, if you actually believe this you are more wrapped up in your personal hatred for Alex than your love for the 49ers.
I don’t love the guy, but all things considered (CBA) he is probably our best FA option. If that causes you to not be a fan anymore good riddance. You will not be missed.
"He is NOT accurate"
his comp % says otherwise.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
So did all the QB's I listed in the post
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
I'm starting to get the impression.....
…that maybe 5e3deluxe doesn’t care too much about the prospect of Alex Smith being the QB of the 49ers. Of course, I could be wrong.
"Bears are crazy, Willie. They'll bite your head off if you're wearing steak on it."
^^^^ User error ^^^ ...!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
To answer your question, just read the first reply to your post
I believe the irrational wildeyed Alex haters are fewer in number than people who want Alex back, or those that don’t want him back, but don’t freak out at the idea. However, they seem to be very vocal and persistent.
not sure about that
and i dont know whats so irrational about not wanting a QB who as played poorly for 5 years to remain with a team that paid him tons of money for no results. i understand that people think there arent better options out there, but there are. we dont need harbaugh to start his legacy with the team with a QB that has killed 2 coaches already(albeit bad coaches). fresh start time people. let alex go and if he can be successful, let it be somewhere where a large portion of the fanbase doesnt hate him
"In basketball -- as in life -- true joy comes from being fully present in each and every moment, not just when things are going your way." -Phil Jackson
It is not irrational to not want him back....
but if you read the level of venom that some people throw at Alex, (5e3deluxe as just one example) it becomes irrational. Stating that you are done with a team if they bring him back? Calling him a “scared worthless excuse for a quarterback”? Calling him a “little jerk”? Does any of these seem rational to you? There a portion of the fan base that will never back Alex no matter what he accomplishes, short of winning 5 more Super Bowls. There are probably better options out there for the 49ers and better options for Alex. For the record I think he would crazy to come back, but I would support him and root for him if he did.
Id root for him too
Shame on the fans who say they want him to fail so they can be right about him. If he does come back I want him to play great and help us win. I just don’t know how many more times I can go into the season telling people how Alex (and the team) is turning it around and becoming a good player only to be mocked for the rest of the year. Its gotten pretty ridiculous
"In basketball -- as in life -- true joy comes from being fully present in each and every moment, not just when things are going your way." -Phil Jackson
Chicken and the egg argument here, majorly.
Look at it this way. Did Alex kill Singletary and Nolan, or did Nolan and Singletary kill Alex? I would DEFINITELY put it on the latter.
Wins are the only thing that matter.
When the results finally start adding up to wins. People would forget and forgive. That’s just the way it goes. Steve Young took a long time to get going and even longer to become a pure pocket passer. A lot of people tend to forget that he too was booed at home games before things got better (as I mentioned in the post).
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
by Drew Kerr on Feb 10, 2011 10:41 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
that was my point
if there weren’t any labor uncertainties, we could part ways with alex and get a vet. But without a new cba, we are toast. alex is our best option which sucks……in jh we trust. it would be really cool though if we won a superbowl next year with alex. go niners
SF wins Superbowl with Alex?
It would be a script made in heaven for a Hollywood production. A guy that’s a bottom-dweller for 6 long years gets the nod once more, from a mad coach who intends for the team to go places. Breaking out of a labor dispute that cuts into the season, its any team’s chance to go to the Big Dance…
The name of the film – “Alex”
The line must be drawn HERE...
by Ranger10 on Feb 10, 2011 8:58 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Just out of interest, how did you come up with the name for the movie?
In the throes of a Jim Harbaugh man crush since 1/7/11
by LondonNiner on Feb 10, 2011 9:22 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
When I saw the movie Alex I thought this thread was an obvious statement competition after Drew told us in the article that 1979 to 1999 was 20 years.
Might have a go myself – which number, starting with 1 and ending I’m 6, and with no other numbers in it, did Joe Montana wear?
In the throes of a Jim Harbaugh man crush since 1/7/11
by LondonNiner on Feb 10, 2011 9:47 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Funny... almost brilliant, but believe it or not, some people on this board actually do need the help with simple math.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Made a fool of myself anyway by my iPhone substituting I’m for in. :(
In the throes of a Jim Harbaugh man crush since 1/7/11
by LondonNiner on Feb 10, 2011 12:50 PM PST up reply actions
alex's song: a story of redemption
is it gonna be an animated fantasy film or a true life story? sorry i had to
by Sippin'onGinn&Juice on Feb 10, 2011 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
See the corns on those Happy Feet!!
In the throes of a Jim Harbaugh man crush since 1/7/11
by LondonNiner on Feb 10, 2011 12:50 PM PST up reply actions
5 years. Alex has only played 5 seasons (2 of which he was injured)
Not sure why people keep saying he has played 6.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
I agree - I see Alex as starting his 5th season
2005 – healthy off-season and season
2006 – healthy off-season and season
2007 – healthy off-season and played 7/16ths of the season
2008 – surgery and recovery
2009 – off-season recovery, but healthy full season
2010 – healthy off-season and healthy 13/16ths of the season
Add that up and he has 4.25 seasons of playing experience while health, which means he gets to run reps and practice, even if he’s not starting or playing in games and he had 4 off-seasons where he was healthy enough to prepare.
Whether that’s enough to prove his value as a QB is a different story. But people should at least evaluate him at his experience level.
Another side of that..
is that despite only playing those 4.25 seasons, Father Time still ticks. He doesn’t stay the same age, and at 26, is way too oft injured already.
Bite my shiny metal sig
People don't evaluate Kurt Warner's QB play for the year he
was stocking groceries. Just getting older doesn’t mean people get better.
Injury level goes to durability of a QB not ability. Haven’t heard anyone here say we shouldn’t sign Alex because he gets hurt too often.
26 isn't exactly ancient.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
2009 He only started 2/3rds of the year
2005 he played 11 games. 2007 he played half of those 7 games with a throwing shoulder that needed surgery.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 10, 2011 2:20 PM PST up reply actions
Okay there is hope for this thread
Look people, everyone should know Harb is not an idiot. He and everyone else who looks at The NFL’s current situation rationally knows that the majority of teams in the league need to be in damage control mode right now. IMO Harb is showing very good foresight at this point. Whether he gets Alex to come back or not, he’s doing what he needs to do to keep Alex close if nothing else. Did we necessarily want this to happen? Likely not. Will we realistically have any choice when the time becomes critical to get a QB in here that at least remotely looks like he knows what he’s doing? Likely not.
Don't mind me, I'm on a roller coaster. . .
www.twitter.com/@yougomango
too inaccurate IMO but if we keep him i'll be hoping harbaugh works that magic well
i cant even watch when a WR is open because i know it’s going to be an overthrow….if harbaugh can imorove his accuracy my faith would go up a little bit….add in continued improvement from the o-line and route running from the WR’s and it goes up a little more. if all that happens id be 50-60% on alex’s chances of suceeding
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Feb 10, 2011 8:54 AM PST reply actions
I don't understand the whole "Alex is inaccurate on deep throws" thing.
He seems to me to be just as accurate as your average quarterback. He hits VD on the money a lot, and i remember quite a few excellent throws drop through receivers hands. Most of his inaccurate throws are to Crabs, which says more about them both than about Alex. Yes, he’s missed Gore and Walker a few times, but overall his accuracy isn’t horrible: I’d say it’s due a lot more to unfamiliarity and timing problems than anything else.
this is possible but ive also seen him over throw guys but 5-10-15 yards
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Feb 10, 2011 9:22 AM PST up reply actions
Most of his inaccuracy's actually come on screen passes for some reason or another.
All the other ones he hits pretty well.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
I think it's to Crabs a lot
Smith hits Gore no problem. Crabtree gets overthrown. My guess, Crabtree is running his routes too shallow.
He hits VD on the money 9 times out of 10 too
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
That's what I'm saying
He is a fairly accurate passer to Morgan, VD, and Gore. He struggles with Crabtree and Norris. MAYBE, just MAYBE it’s becauase Norris and Crabtree struggle with their routes?
I’m with you on this. I think Alex is fairly accurate. He tends to throw high to Crabtree over the middle, but I think it’s because he cuts his route early. If he ran a slightly deeper route, those are on the money. Maybe Smith is expecting Crabtree to be 3 yards deeper. Crabtree DOES catch a lot of balls a yard or two short of the 1st down marker, maybe he is supposed to be past it. As for Norris, well we already know he is a route running mess.
I think Alex throws a better ball than people give him credit for.
Crabtree said that he isn't used to running as deep of routes as he is doing right now.
He said that is the biggest problem he has in the NFL right now.
Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3
link?
I’m sure you remember where you read that, right?
"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig
Somehow I knew you remembered it wrong
Q: In your opinion what is the difference between being a wide receiver in the pros and at the collegiate level?
A: It’s really all just football. But when you’re in the pros, there is so much involved in the game. It’s not just football, it’s being a pro. This is the highest level you can get to. Everybody is talented and everybody who is defending you is a lot better than in college. But I would say the biggest difference receiver-wise is running deeper routes than what I did at Texas Tech.
Unbelievable, lol.
"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig
But I would say the biggest difference receiver-wise is running deeper routes than what I did at Texas Tech.
He said the biggest difference. If it was the biggest difference wouldn’t that mean it was the hardest thing to adjust too?
Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3
No
The question wasn’t even about his hardest adjustment. For you to read into it more than what he said is just pure speculation. I don’t have a problem with your boneheaded interpretation, I have a problem with you passing it off as the truth.
"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig
manraj7's interpretation is not even remotely "boneheaded".
Given the context, it’s not some incredible jump from “biggest difference” to “toughest adjustment”.
If something is different between what a player did in college and what they have to do in the NFL, then the player must adjust. If that something is the biggest difference, then it likely requires the biggest adjustment.
So if you assume that changing something that you have been doing for years is difficult, and that change is the biggest that you have to make, then it is fairly safe to assume that it is the toughest adjustment.
You can’t really fault him for “passing it off as the truth”, because manraj7 was believed his interpretation to be true, and an good argument can be made that he was correct.
"Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer "extortion." The "X" makes it sound cool." - Bender Bending Rodriguez
Mental gymnastics
Ludicrous.
I was born at night, not last night.
"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig
Ludicrous? What ludicrous?
I merely argued that the jump from “biggest difference” to “toughest adjustment” is not quite as outrageous as you implied it to be. It seemed like a fairly reasonable chain of thought to me. Perhaps you would care to point out the deficiencies in my thinking?
"Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer "extortion." The "X" makes it sound cool." - Bender Bending Rodriguez
Yeah
If you think “a good argument can be made that he was correct” go ahead and make it.
I’ll wait.
"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig
The argument has already been made.
You called it ludicrous on Feb 11, 2011, at 7:57 PM PST. Unless you are implying that my argument was bad, in which case I would be interested to hear what exactly you find so flawed about it.
"Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer "extortion." The "X" makes it sound cool." - Bender Bending Rodriguez
That's what I thought
"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig
No it doesn't
Because it’s a lie.
"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig
Impossible to prove.
We aren’t at the practices or in the huddles.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
That just looks like a screen pass
our OLine has just been that bad for the last 5 years.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 10, 2011 2:23 PM PST up reply actions
Generally with a Dlineman coming free and he rushes.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 10, 2011 2:22 PM PST up reply actions
Show Me The Money
Harbaugh is icing over Smith it’s probably just for caution. The CBA could be a real thorn in his side which is why he’s not cutting any ties for the moment. But even if Smith does come back he’ll still be the best measuring stick of Harbaugh. NOBODY has been able to put this kid into beast mode and his issues are predominately psychological. I wouldn’t be surprised if Alex actually learned to enjoy this franchise that his results would improve.
However, with that being said I still think it’s highly unlikely that Harbaugh elects to keep Smith in SF. He’s probably gonna have a love affair with Kolb but at the end of the day he’s too costly and I think we’ll be lucky if we can get the QB we want this year.
We also still need to spend some $$ at other positions of need this offseason. Best case scenario we focus on defense first by ponying up for Asomugha, draft another CB in the 1st, take a QB in the second. Either a physical specimen like Kaepernick/Locker (assuming Newton is gone) or a cerebral QB like Ponder. This way we can follow the draft where it’s strong and look for project players in the later rounds.
he may not want to come back
but he’s probably jumping at the chance to work with someone who can actually help him get better. whether that happens or not is another thing
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Feb 10, 2011 9:24 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
NOBODY has been able to put this kid into beast mode
Well Mike Singletary and Mike Nolan weren’t exactly the best candidates to do so… Harbaugh may or may not either… and its also possible that Alex may never get it… but it also may be possible that he does too.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Turner damn sure made him look good in season 2.
His second year was probably the most solid of any of the above.
You wanna see a really jacked up career look at Rich Gannon. Got 3 years on the bench… Came out and played Alexish for 3 years then got traded to Washington and had only 125 attempts the next season. Got traded to KC and rode the bench for the next four years backing up Elvis Grbac and Steve Bono. After he splits time and does better than Grbac the Raiders come calling and talent and Gruden are there… And the rest was history. He went Apespit on the Raiders and was still looking good at the end of his career when he sustained that neck injury.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 10, 2011 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
Funny you mention Gannon... I actually was going to include him as well.
He was on the list I had created. His career was just all over the map though and I wanted to keep the concept of the point I was making pretty simple.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Ignoring?
So I should just post all 900 QB’s so that my point even’s out. Do you not get what I was saying? Evidently not.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Just saying...
I was going to include him….but I wanted to keep the concept of the point I was making simple….
Sounds like ignoring the data, to make your point more obvious and clear.
I seriously would like you to do one with 5 QBs that stunk it up though and never got better. Like, where should we draw the line you know? So is it the 6th year they turn it on, and if they don’t turn it on after say 60 starts, ,then they will never get it. Does that make sense? I mean, let’s see some of the QBs that took even longer to get it, and if there isn’t any, then we really need to go into this saying, he either makes it this year or he doesn’t.
So many more articles can be written. Has any QB turned their career around after 6 Off Coordinators? ETC….
I "ignored" 5000000000 other QB's data too.
If that makes the point inaccurate, then I guess it is…. sorry, didn’t have the time to research every QB in NFL History.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
I say let him go and forget about him
I have no problems with him as a person (I think 5e3deluxe took it a little too far), but this franchise has wasted enough time with this guy. I am tired of the sucking, and I think there comes a time when every team needs to let go of their guy and find someone else. This franchise has not been to the playoffs in the Alex Smith era, and I think they just need to find someone else. I am tired of him and his mistakes.
Draft Nick Fairley
I think you're right
when a player gets booed when his first pass is incomplete in a pre-season game it’s probably time to move on. when the CBA gets done he’ll have plenty of teams that want him.
wait til next year!
Doesn't Matter
He has many of the qualities that teams look for in a backup QB. If thats the route he ends up going, he could end up being one of the better backups in the league well into his 30’s
"God tells me he can get me out of this mess, but he's pretty sure you're fucked."-Braveheart
We need a guy who can start and be successful
Alex Smith is not good enough for that right now.
Draft Nick Fairley
by REDANDGOLD8 on Feb 10, 2011 10:05 AM PST up reply actions
That wasn't my point
You mentioned him as a backup for other teams as if it were some shameful thing, so I said that a backup is nothing to be scoffed at
"God tells me he can get me out of this mess, but he's pretty sure you're fucked."-Braveheart
by Camraman926 on Feb 10, 2011 10:42 AM PST up reply actions
He is being considered for the starter job, which he is not good enough for right now.
"I for one welcome our new computer overlords." - Ken Jennings, after losing to a computer on Jeopardy, 2/16/11
You don't know football
There are at least 6 teams that will be interviewing for him to start and 31 looking to have him as a backup.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 10, 2011 2:31 PM PST up reply actions
Arizona
Cleveland, Buffalo, Oakland, Tennessee, Minnesota, Carolina…
Oh and the 49ers.
I guess that makes 8 teams he could very well be brought to start.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 10, 2011 3:21 PM PST up reply actions
I'd take Cleveland and Buffalo off the list,
I think McCoy and Fitzpatrick are the guys there. I could see the other teams wanting him though. Hopefully Alex will stay, as I believe that it would be of most benefit to each party.
"Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer "extortion." The "X" makes it sound cool." - Bender Bending Rodriguez
Its around here somewhere. Hold on.
by mcwagner on Feb 10, 2011 3:42 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
He never said they were all NFL teams
by mcwagner on Feb 10, 2011 7:08 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Excuse me?
Please do not insult my fandom or knowledge, sir. I acknowledge that there are people on here that know more than I do (maybe even you), which I am fine with, but please do not say I do not know football. I have been a fan since I was a kid (I’m 26), and I know enough about football to know that I am tired of seeing Alex Smith making costly mistakes in the ball game and making poor decisions. The Philadelphia game this past year and the Titans game in ’09 come to mind (I remember that one in particular, I saw most of that game live). Alex Smith has shown flashes of talent (New Orleans game, for example), but he has fallen short too many times and made costly mistakes that have cost us several ball games (Philadelphia game, for example). He might be a decent backup somewhere, but he is just not good enough to be a starter right now, IMO.
"I for one welcome our new computer overlords." - Ken Jennings, after losing to a computer on Jeopardy, 2/16/11
by REDANDGOLD8 on Feb 17, 2011 10:20 AM PST up reply actions
Snobby and spoiled fans is why he got booed.
Steve Young was booed a lot too back in the late 80’s if you don’t recall correctly. Everyone wanted Joe back and that “bum” named Steve to get off the field.
How many people remember that?
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
WAT..
I recall a certain OP who slammed Smith hard when he first got here.
Lets keep it real.
Bite my shiny metal sig
And I recall a certain OP who slams the entire organization from top to bottom every gleaming chance he gets.
Let’s keep it real ;)
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
I only have slammed..
the coaching, the ownership and FO, and the QBs. All of which has proven somewhat true.
You won’t find me slamming VD, Gore, Willis, and others who deserve the credit they earned.
Bite my shiny metal sig
Oh... I see.
So you slam everyone but the three pro bowlers on the team. Got it. So in essence, you are not a 49ers fan, just a fan of Gore, VD, and Willis? Guess that makes sense.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
IIRC
you said you would take Stephen Jackson over Gore too… so even that one is a 50/50, right?
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
I've been a big Gore fan since I've been here..
and I love Jackson too. I think Jackson would be a beast in SF, and maybe you are confusing what I said when Erickson wanted him in the draft, and if TD wasn’t a dumbass, he would be the RB instead of Gore.
Bite my shiny metal sig
Now you're missing this one big time...
for one thing, all those 3 issues were a huge reason why the 49ers have gone downhill. Jed may turn that around now because he is committed to doing that. It still doesn’t let his father off of the hook for bad decisions made during his time running the team. I think we all agree on the coaching. The QB is the last issue on the 49er agenda.
So really, calling me out as a fan on this one is pure hogwash. It’s the 49ers who changed things this past off-season, not me. They finally got their FO structure in order, they fired hopefully the last HC for a while, and maybe they will find a QB.
So what did I do wrong here?
Bite my shiny metal sig
Well I am not saying you aren't a fan... so I apoligize.
There are other players on this team that are good also. Just because they aren’t pro bowlers doesnt mean they don’t possess real talent. You just didn’t elaborate much to prove your point, so I hit it back to your side of the court.
I just hope you can stop taking such a fierce one-sided negative approach to everything and start seeing the positives soon…. aside from Frank Gore, Vernon Davis, and Patrick Willis.
You are a very intelligent person (I can tell that about you and have never even met you in person). All of that though, should be redirected to trying to look at the positives of what is being done and thats all I am saying here.
If you don’t like Alex Smith (or any other player for that matter) it’s your prerogative to say so. Or state your opinions, that’s what this site is here for. But it would at least be nice to see a 50/50 ratio on the commenting (positive versus negative). Not sayin you are all negative, but it comes off that way a majority of the time.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
What i don't like..
and I’ve said this many times the past few years, is for the 49ers to become complacent at the QB position. So far they have, and that includes Smith. The best case scenario for Harbaugh is to find a QB who already can run his style of offense. The second case is to keep Smith. That’s also predicated on whether Smith wants to stay in SF. He might be waiting for Norv Turner to call him too. The best case scenario for Smith is to go to a team that isn’t rebuilding their offense, and doesn’t have the expectations and failure with that team either.
So really, I don’t see the Harbaugh/Smith marriage happening, and if it does, I don’t see this as a long term solution. Which isn’t good for either of them.
Bite my shiny metal sig
I feel the opposite.
I think Smith does get re-signed to a 2-yr and 3rd yr option…
But just because Smith comes back doesn’t mean he will be given the keys. I think the 49ers will still draft a QB within the first 3 rounds. And either bring on another b-rated vet, or keep one of the other two goofs in Carr or Troy Smith as the 3rd stringer.
But that’s just me.
There’s always the chance for a trade I suppose (Kolb or Palmer), but it just boils down to what Baalke and Harbaugh feel is going to be the best option… which none of us have the inside scoop on.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
I too struggle with the fact that we threw all our eggs in one basket
And now 6 years later we are screwed with no talent knocking at the door.
I don’t think Harbaugh is that stupid. If no CBA, I see him with Alex for 2 year contract, and maybe a Ponder or comparable in the 2nd round.
If we do have a CBA, I see a run for Kolb or Palmer, and draft a later round guy like McElroy in 6th.
No way does Harbaugh hang his hat on Smith and only Smith. 2 HC’s got fired for it, and the GM that was vested in Smith is now gone.
Ponder is not even worth a 5th rounder.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Doesn't mean he should
But I’ll happily see Kaepernick slide to us in the 3rd. I’m convinced a lot of these QBs are gonna climb the board after their measurables are taken at the combine.
Winning isn’t just a QB stat but all Ponder did at FSU was lose. And FSU has no shortage of talent. The ACC wasn’t even that amazing this year.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 10, 2011 2:35 PM PST up reply actions
WE are the ones that hold the Scouting Combine in such high regard
I’m sure it helps, but not as much for a QB. You think NFL teams care how high he can jump, or how much he can bench press moreso than his game film?
WE and the MEDIA are the ones that hype up the Combine. Scouts don’t ignore the years of game tape which is what really matters.
Then why are there so many scouts and coaches in attendance for the Combine and both the Shrine and Senior Bowl games?
A) Because they do matter to them.
B) Because they want to gauge how guys play against stiffer competition.
A guy like Case Keenum can blow stuff up in the conference he is in and seem like a super hero…yet, there is context to that. How well is he going to look when he is going against the top competition?
Game film, the all-star games, and the combine all hold an equal stake in the evaluation process.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
So if Kaepernick runs a 4.3 40 time and jumps 2 feet in the air
It doesn’t matter what his game film is? He could have never played a down right, with no game film, but if he was the highest rated QB at the combine drills he would automatically be the first QB taken?
That’s the point I’m trying to make. It doesn’t erase 3 years of game film and I believe it’s not NEARLY as important what a QB bench presses as what an OL or DL bench presses. That’s my point. I’m sure it counts, but it’s not more than game film.
All equal huh? So a guy with better game film, doesn’t play in All Star game, or go to Combine, but a guy with weak film, has a so-so All star game like Ponder, and tears up the Combine will go before the guy with superior game film? All equal stakes huh? Not a chance.
You dont think a 4.3 would turn some heads?
If you don’t, then I’m not sure what to say other than disagree.
I get your point, but I think there is a three tier evaluation process for a reason. You don’t. Guess we dont see eye to eye.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
I seriously doubt Ponder goes in the 2nd.
If he does, it will just be a confirmation of just how crappy this class is. If teams have TRULY put in the effort of scouting Ponder, I can’t see him going before the 4th (after Kaepernick) ;)
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
I hope you are right. I'd love to get Ponder in the 5th
But I think he goes sooner than that.
Kaepernick and Ponder in 5th with both of our picks. I’d be pretty happy. LOL.
I'd hope we steer clear completely of Ponder.
I wouldn’t even want him a 7th Rounder.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Kaepernick will go before the end of the 3rd round. I have no doubts about that.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
I think the media is hyping Kaepernick
I’m really interested to see where he goes. I think it’s funny when people talk about how players make these huge jumps in the rankings, and then big falls based on Combine, or the hype, etc…
I bet it doesn’t even matter to the talent evaluators and scouts. I’m sure in their rankings a guy doesn’t go from a 4th round talent to a first round talent like “Mock GMs” do.
If that were the case, there's be no such thing as the NFL Combine.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
LOL, yea you know about keepin it real alright........
This is he same person that says he knows for a fact millions of people think although he never spoke with any of them and feels he has the right to speak for them.
This is the LAST PERSON that should be talking about keepin it real
D train to Bensonhurst Brooklyn BABEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think the question is can Harbaugh cure battered QB syndrome……I am not on either side, personally I’d like to see it, but with MCDANIELS In STL I’m worried we couldn’t compete. I think Bradford will do better with McDaniels than Smith would with Harbaugh. I so would be less optimistic keeping Smith, in regards to a playoff birth.
Harbaugh runs a version of Bo Schembeclers offense, not a WCO!!!
by rlott#42 on Feb 10, 2011 9:22 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
bradford
is already frustrated that he has to learn a new offense.
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Feb 10, 2011 9:25 AM PST up reply actions
He will probably have to learn another one next year as well.
I don’t see McDaniels staying for very long.
Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3
Yup
Bradford is going to get put through the ringer. Probably 3 OC’s in 3 years, but at least 3 OCs in 4 years.
McDaniels is out of there the second he gets a whiff of HC job again. I say, a strong year next year, which is likely with Bradford, and he is gone.
I actually see Bradford taking a step back.
Its hard learning a new playbook each year. But McDaniels will still get a HC job.
Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3
I don't think so
I think it depends on what you consider a step back. I don’t think he will throw as much, but I think he has a better system. Plus McDaniels is better play caller than Shumer.
Not as big of an improvement as expected.
Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3
and more turnovers
less wins in general for the team.
Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3
If there is an improvement, then he doesn't regress as you said
We have already talked about wins not directly associated to the QB. It’s tough to hold him for 100% of wins and losses. If he has a better season, then he does, regardless of their record. I think he has a better year, you said he doesn’t.
Well its a good thing that football is a team sport.
Hopefully it wouldn’t all be left on Alex’s shoulders. And the 49ers (on paper) are still a better team across the board than the Rams.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Yeah
I’d say the Niners have more talent across the board than the Rams, but as we saw, it doesn’t mean anything.
The team with the better coaching, and better QB wins over the more talented team with no QB and no coaching.
Sometimes.
Sometimes the team with better coaching and lesser QB wins too. We had the lesser coaching and QB this year than them and still managed to pull out a victory against them.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Yeah but overall, we were the worst team
.500 against them, but they had the better record. I think it just goes to show that if the more talented team doesn’t have the QB, they will struggle more than a team with a good QB.
I mean heck, I think we are more talented than the Colts as a team, but they have a HOF QB thus making them better than us 9 times out of 10. I really think we are one QB away from being a contender. I’ve been saying that since 2009 but still feel like it.
BTW, Great post. I think one of your better ones.
We also benched Alex for the game we lost to them
And Troy stunk it up and lost. 7 of 19? Really? A bunch of them were so bad they should have been picked anyway.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 10, 2011 2:38 PM PST up reply actions
Well put
I think the question is can Harbaugh cure battered QB syndrome
"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig
He basically has to look at Alex as if he is a rookie.
He has to unlearn everything he has been taught up to this point. And newly learn everything Harbaugh has to offer.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
I'd like to think it's possible
But I’m highly suspect.
Sorry, I just don’t think it can be done.
"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig
Do you really think he learned very much from Nolan when he was injured?
or Singletary and Raye? LOL
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 10, 2011 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
Martz, McCarthy
Yes I think he did. I’m with Drew, I think he has to hit the reset button on Alex and start from scratch.
But yes, I do think Alex has learned stuff from all of them. Even if the person is an idiot, you can still learn BAD stuff and BAD habits from them.
The only comparable that gives me hope is Steve Young
That 5th season when his accuracy jumps to 69%. Accuracy is the key for this offense, and Alex hasnt shown it. So I say no, dont bring him back. He isnt accurate enough to succeed.
BUT
Is it possible for Alex to make a similar kind of jump in accuracy? Is it possible for Harbaugh to wave his magic hand and increase Alex’s accuracy over 65%?
I dont know, but that data point for Steve Young gives me a little hope.
abracadabra B
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Feb 10, 2011 9:27 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
No...
But for the first two Super Bowl wins, he had Dwight Clark and Freddie Solomon. Good players but neither was in the class of Rice and Taylor. So there goes that excuse.
That is to say
JOE had DC and Solomon his first six seasons.
Well, what the OP didn't flesh out..
was that in 1989, Young only started 3 games, and backed up Montana’s well oiled machine. That’s what the stat table isn’t telling us.
Bite my shiny metal sig
1989 and beyond how many OCs did he have?
Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3
You’re right that he was behind Joe that year. There is more signifigance to that year though:
Before that year, he never had a completion% above 60%
After that year, he never had a year below 60% (until his last season in 1999 when he only played 3 games).
So although the year is a small sample size and he was still a backup, SOMETHING happened that year that permanently increased his performance for the rest of his career.
Is it possible for Smith to have the same epiphany?
Young had a 100% completion rate in one game that season..
care to tell in how many attempts?
Bite my shiny metal sig
I don't mind Alex coming back, even as a starter
I just don’t know if we can realistically get the QB of the future who can start this offseason, especially with the possible lockout.
So I don’t mind Alex coming back, but I would expect there to be someone behind him we are developing to take over in the long term.
"Though that reminds me of a quality razor and mr. t story
he said once nellie was freaking out in locker room telling them how badly they sucked in first half. And he was so made he didn’t realize he hadn’t zipped up from his pee and his junk was hanging out." -Tafkasam
by Badly Browned on Feb 10, 2011 9:33 AM PST via mobile reply actions
someone behind him we are developing is key
and the patience to let that QB develop before having him take over for Alex
I would trust coach harbaugh
with whatever decision he made, if its keeping alex fine, if hes not then im sure he will find a Qb that will work. He knows thats the one key position that can make our 49ers a playoff caliber team and if he thinks he can do it with alex, i trust the mans judgement. Thats what the man was hired for, lets just hope he can walk the walk if he decides to stick with alex.
"Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that."-Bill shankly
Now this is how an Alex Smith post should look like, good work.
I do not believe Alex has a future in SF. He is just an average quarterback in my opinion that has a hard time working in the clutch. This is looking at him as he is now, not years past. I have never seen flashes of brilliance, just flashes of pretty good. He is not horrible, but his position can be upgraded. Finding a franchise quarterback isn’t easy, but it takes sacrifices (such as giving up on a guy that has not shown himself to be anything more than decent). Harbaugh’s career is based on his decisions on what to do with the quarterback position, so I suspect he will do his very best. As far as the news I hear it sounds like Harb is keeping his options open, smart.
I would rank Smith higher than Leinart (work ethic and such) and lower than Dilfer (not as game smart). I wish the best for him. I have a feeling he will do better in the later stages of his career.
in my opinion that has a hard time working in the clutch.
I don’t know about that. I have seen Alex make 4th quarter drives to put the team in a position to win the game throughout his career. I mean to say that he completely is incapable of stringing together a game winning drive may or may not be true. But I think the capacity to do it is there for him based on the good ol’ eye test.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
He hasn’t had a 4th quarter comeback victory since 2007. I see him do decent in the 4th, but nothing I haven’t seen other QBs, even backups, do. Harbaugh as a player was pretty mediocre until the 4th quarter were his gritty play was rewarded with victories. Maybe Harb knows some secret that he can share with Alex, but I don’t count on it. But, you never know when the switch turns on and the game slows down for Alex. I’m just saying that there are other fish in the sea…
by mcwagner on Feb 10, 2011 11:35 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Harbaugh as a player was pretty mediocre until the 4th quarter were his gritty play was rewarded with victories.
He also had a supporting cast that didn’t pull stuff like the Dre Bly’s and Nate Clements of the league… Or teammates that fumble, drop passes, when the game was on the line. With all factors included, these last 5 (-2) years have not been ALL Alex Smith.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Where's Garcia?
It wasn’t all downhill after Young. Garcia was a Pro Bowl QB that took the falling 49ers (and Bucs and Eagles) to the playoffs. Garica got fired from all three teams. He is the true Rodney Dangerfield.
He never was looked at like either Young or Montana
and that is the point I was trying to make. And you further establish the point. Basing it on Garcia’s stats, he was excellent in his 2nd and 3rd years as the starter. Yet, he didn’t win a SB, and he didn’t live up to the expectations that Montana and Young set before him. Hence why even an above average QB may not ever get the respect he deserves.
Until a QB is able to take this franchise to a Superbowl (or multiple) he is never going to get the due credit he deserves. Which is not to say that Alex is the guy who deserves it ‘cause he doesn’t… yet.
If Alex can show he is worthy, and more importantly capable of leading this team back to the Superbowl, then he will continue to receive all the criticism.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Harbaugh
isn’t saying he’s bringing Alex back to start. He sin’t saying he’s bringing Alex back at all. He’s buttering Alex up in the very unsettling circumstance that because of the looming lockout and shortened, possibly non-existent free agency period this offseason that no other viable QBs become available. If we’re staring a season of David Carr and a rookie as our only 2 QBs on the roster in the face, Alex is our best bet. However, I agree he has almost no chance of being our franchise QB. Guy can’t make decisions with pressure at all, and that’s a pretty necessary skill for an NFL QB. Here’s hoping we can sign someone else or make a trade to start fresh with a new coach and QB.
"In basketball -- as in life -- true joy comes from being fully present in each and every moment, not just when things are going your way." -Phil Jackson
Good point
I have no idea how much of this Alex Smith talk is insurance for a lockout, and how much is Harbaugh actually liking the guy.
All we already doubting Harbaugh’s honesty?
I don’t see Harbaugh as the buttering up type in any circumstance.
Jim Harbaugh is our future!
SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS: WORLD CHAMPIONS!
Touchdown Forty Niners!
Giants Baseball: Torture. It hurts so good.
I mean
he is trying to repair a severed relationship to keep an option open. The image of them “throwing around the pigskin” on the practice field just feels a little over the top to me. Don’t get me wring, I like the move and I think Jim is being smart. I just don’t know how much he really believes the Niners already have their QB in Alex
"In basketball -- as in life -- true joy comes from being fully present in each and every moment, not just when things are going your way." -Phil Jackson
Or maybe Harbaugh see's a guy, a player that is tinkering on having a career like he had
and wants to take on the challenge of resurrecting it. All this could have deeper meaning than what folks are speculating with all the “its all just a motion” type of comments.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Well yeah.
That’s all there really is at this point.
I mean I could be completely negative about the whole thing, or I could look at things from an objective point of view.
Has Alex disappointed the hell out of all of us? I would say it’s safe to say yes on every single Niners fans behalf.
But am I gonna sit here and bash him every chance I get? What’s the point? Furthermore, if our new coaching staff brings him back for a CHANCE to start, and he feels like he has worked enough of the kinks out to give us the best chance to win, am I gonna continue to have negative thoughts? Nope. Where does that get me?
Bottom line is that until ANY QB that wears red and gold leads the TEAM to a Superbowl, then there always gonna be looked at like they are a schmuck because such high standards set for 20+ years.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
*their always gonna be looked at like...
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
The reality is..
49er fans expectations aren’t really as high as you’re making it out to be as far as the QB. All they want is a long term answer, and so far, Smith is a step below his contemporary across the Bay in Jason Campbell who suffered multiple OC’s, HC’s, and bad ownership.
So if Campbell were in SF, would this situation be any different?
Bite my shiny metal sig
Thats not the reality of it.
Until a QB goes to the SB, or multiple… it always gonna be, well he couldnt get us past the first round… or, he choked when the game was on the line in the NFL Championship… etc…
Smith below Campbell? Please..that is sheer garbage. What has Campbell done that is so special?
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
He didn't have as poor a rookie season as Smith for starters...
and now you’re getting it. The criteria all of the sudden shifts when it comes to JC. Yet JC has a better career TD-INT ratio than Smith. In fact, he isn’t in the negative that Smith is in that stat.
JC: 68-46
AS: 51-53
How is that to chew on?
Bite my shiny metal sig
Again... strawman
They have not had the same teammates, coaches, nor environment. Unless Jason Campbell played for the 49ers from 2005 to present and Alex played for the Redskins from 2005 to present, there really is no comparison.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Ok, so now we're back..
to your premise of comparing all of those QB’s you mentioned in your OP.
Like Elway for example.
Bite my shiny metal sig
Was to illustrate a point...
that even if a guys career seems to not be going well, then there is always a chance that they could turn it around. Thought you would have been sharp enough to grasp that one.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
He had 48 games started in those 5 years
Alex had 54… a whoppin 6 games difference. Alex has been on and off the bench and injured as well…
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Young only started 3 games in 89...
that requires a bit of qualification, no?
Bite my shiny metal sig
Alex only started 6 in '07??
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Yes..
and it wasn’t on a loaded well oiled machine like Young was on either.
Your post is well written, and I’m here to knock it. But putting in Smith and Young in the same comparison really needs a lot more fleshing out. Same goes for Elway, as well as the others. Stat tables don’t really tell us much here, especially if they don’t qualify situations. Young played in 10 games in 89, but only started three. If we factor in his completion rate, then we would have to factor in the only completion he made in ATL, or mop up duty.
That’s why his contemporary in Campbell would make more sense for comparison, because he like Smith has had a myriad of issues to overcome as well that are similar.
Bite my shiny metal sig
But that's the thing drummer
I am not comparing Elway to Alex Smith…or Steve Young to Alex Smith.
I am comparing situations. And trying to convey the point that even if a guys doesn’t have the best of luck the first five years of his career, that not all hoe is lost.
The stats were simply put there to illustrate that those 6 quarterbacks had a rough start too.
I put 3 quarterbacks that went on to have HOF careers, and then 3 more that are not HOF caliber, but had success in their own fashion. All three of those other guys may not have been HOF material, but they were at the least Pro Bowl material.
I never said once in the entire post that Alex Smith was either of those. I thought I was pretty objective in the post not taking a stand on one side or the other.
I simply meant this post as a “let’s not shut the door just yet”. Because who really knows at this point? I wish I could fast forward time 5 years down the road to see what the results are gonna be, but I can’t. None of us can.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Sure..
and to do a post like yours would take a lot more space to flesh this all out. The flipside to this would be comparing Smith to other 1st round failures as well, like Couch. That could be your next chapter in this saga, LOL.
Bite my shiny metal sig
There's always that possibility I suppose.
Hopefully not… but the odds are certainly in favor for that to happen.
I would just like to think that there is hope. It would, if nothing else, make for a great story to tack on to the legacy of this franchise if Harbaugh was able to help turn it around for Smith. And Smith wound up having a successful career because of that.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
I'd be interested in a 1st round failure post as well.
Basically a “This is why Alex COULD turn it around”.
And a “This is why Alex WON’T turn it around”.
I don't think he give Alex undo credit with the Smith argument
Smith had a bad year 6 after that first up year.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 10, 2011 2:58 PM PST up reply actions
Lol Not Smith - Young
damn mormons.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 10, 2011 2:58 PM PST up reply actions
Do you think
Alex causes this much dissension in the locker room?
"In basketball -- as in life -- true joy comes from being fully present in each and every moment, not just when things are going your way." -Phil Jackson
I have no idea.
His teammates haven’t said so… No way to tell for sure.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
from what i have heard he is very well liked
Amazing what hard work, accountability, desire, and respect earns you.
by mcwagner on Feb 10, 2011 2:00 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Didn’t Campbell play in the post season? He also has a good TD- INT ratio.
by mcwagner on Feb 10, 2011 11:55 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I don’t think Jim ever said he believes the 49ers already have their QB in Smith. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t like what he sees, and he may feel he could work with and improve Smith. And he’s probably right. But that doesn’t mean QBOTF.
Jim Harbaugh is our future!
SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS: WORLD CHAMPIONS!
Touchdown Forty Niners!
Giants Baseball: Torture. It hurts so good.
Contrary to popular belief some coaches actually do have morals and actually do tell the truth from time to time.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Why? 'cause he wears a big wooden cross?
When did Sing lie exactly? He had the same three cliche responses to the media.
That is a big time strawman and you know it… it’s too bad I do too.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Don't you remember the whole QB drama this season..
between the two Smith’s? Singletary tried selling both those lemons hard. Care to by his used car?
Bite my shiny metal sig
Really?
Or it could have just been that he truly did have faith that they could get the job done. He obviously knew what he was doing 100% of the time.
Some coaches don’t = all coaches… thats the point that was made. You can disagree or whatever, but if what you are claiming is true, then nobody is different and we are all the same.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Then we are back..
to coach speak. We don’t know if Harbaugh really means to bring back Smith as a starter, and for all we know, he is talking Smith up. Until he settles the QB issue, then it’s all talk at this point.
Bite my shiny metal sig
So to assume things one way or the other isn't really something you can "prove"
only assume… Why assume the worst?
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
I don't think anybody is assuming the worse here..
they are just going on what Smith has done as a QB. I would say the assumptions are fair enough.
Bite my shiny metal sig
Good post
At this point, I don’t know if Alex Smith can put it together. Every year, we say that THIS is the year he busts it out.
The offseason is a time for unbridled optimism, isn’t it? I hope whoever is at QB, that Harbaugh and the team gives him a good team to win.
Might as well
I feel ashamed to admit that i wouldn’t mind bringing smith back on a 2year contract. If we draft a rookie in the 1st then we would set him up for failure again, if we trade for a veteran like Kolb or Palmer who is to say they will do any better than Smith. Sure Palmer had 2 pro-bowl seasons but he had a good receiving corps, Kolb had the likes of Desean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin. Alex has Vernon and Frank Gore but with an unstable line Gore has to pick up on blitz at times (thank god for his ability) If Crabs would’ve played in the pre-season i think their chemistry (crabs and smith) would’ve been better (consider the time Crabs &Smith spent practicing after the contract holdout and how much chemistry they had for the rest of the 09 season.) I just feel like i wouldn’t want to lose and as sad as it sounds i think Alex gives us the best chance to win. IMHO i believe Harbaugh could help Smith develop to a decent QB.
These are our options for starting QB in 2011....
Pay multiple picks and an asston of money for a veteran in the twilight of his career that may or may not be better than Alex Smith, mortgaging the future for the chance of getting bounced out in the wild card round next year.
Pay 2nd round value for a guy barely worth a 4th that may or may not be, and probably won’t be.. better than a guy we can draft in the 2nd.
Draft a QB and throw him to the wolves in a complex system he won’t have time to learn, with receivers that can’t run a timing route, with blockers still getting the hang of pass protection… and in 4 years.. we’ll be saying “Don’t bring him back!!!”
Bring back Alex Smith.
Alex Smith isn’t the QBOTF.. but bringing him back to be next year’s sack dummy is best for the long term health of the franchise.
by Ougadas on Feb 10, 2011 9:54 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I don't want the starters job handed to him
But if the CBA holds up the offseason, it wouldn’t be hard for him to win the job. But if a new CBA gets underway on time, I would like to see effort to bring in a starter quality veteran.
Harbaugh has made it clear that his priority is to improve the roster using all avenues available. I have no doubts Smith is worth one of three QB roster spots on the 49ers (or basically any NFL roster). I just don’t want to see it handed to him like with Nolan and Singletary. And I doubt it will be with Harbaugh.
Jim Harbaugh is our future!
SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS: WORLD CHAMPIONS!
Touchdown Forty Niners!
Giants Baseball: Torture. It hurts so good.
I personally think bringing alex back is our best option
i’m basing my opinion more on the lack of FA QB’s and draft picks who could come in and perform better. i refuse to buy into the Kevin Kolb, i think his admirers suffer from “backup player” syndrome (idk the clinical term, but basically every1 loves the backup and noone blames him for losing cause he wasn’t supposed to play and when he wins people become enamored, look at matt flyn in GB people already talking bout trading for him cause of that 1 game).
i know some people will argue that kolb was supposed to be the started but the fact of the matter is that he couldn’t hold on to his job, yea vick had a great season, IMO kolb isn’t the answer. neither is trading for orton (it’d cost too much to trade for a guy who isn’t much better than AS), and mcnabb has truly lost a step (even though i love the gay as a player)
Alex would come cheap, his QB rating has improved and more importantly his completion percentage was close to 60%. i would like to see us keep him for a year or two till harbaugh develops a young qb. plus regardless of how he performs AS even as a backup would be a great influence on a young QB in film study, work ethic and professionalism.
by Sippin'onGinn&Juice on Feb 10, 2011 9:59 AM PST reply actions
No way, let Smith walk
I don’t trust Harbaugh because I haven’t seen anything from him. I trusted Singletary last year with all his guarantees and we fell flat on our faces making us the laughing stock in the NFC West. No I dont buy it until I see it. I want to believe harbaugh is a grinder and a qb guru and he will turn our franchise around but until we start to win then I sit back and just watch. From a fans standpoint before I spend my $$$ on tickets, travel etc, I want to see this team on the rise.
Smith proved last year (given continuity) that he doesnt have what it takes to win. He’s a backup. He doesnt have the “it” factor.
Good analysis
But none of those qbs had 1td and 11ints in their first year. And this is just the little bit of qbs that had success after sucking their first five years. Im pretty sure theres way more unsuccesful qbs after sucking there first five years. But all in all this article gave me some hope in alex. Very little but before i read this i had no hope
by youn6_b on Feb 10, 2011 10:23 AM PST via mobile reply actions
you had to have looked that up
No one remembers him off the top of their head
by mcwagner on Feb 10, 2011 10:31 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah 'cause he didn't win an AFC Championship without Davis in '87.
Good call.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Elway was on some pretty garbage teams that over achieved big time. He really was an amazing player, especially when he learned how to take a hit.
by mcwagner on Feb 10, 2011 10:58 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
The Three Amigos..
any QB that has that as your WR corp and still throws for over 3000 yards a season is damn good.
Bite my shiny metal sig
I totally get the argument for
bringing Alex Smith back. I see the comparison in the Qbs you listed above. I get that he really hasnt had the coaching available to him (outside of 06) to evolve as a QB. I realize that as of right now, he is probably the best option at QB that the 49ers have. I get all that I really do. BUT… this relationship has to end. We cannot keep doing this silly little dance every year. I think it is best for everyone involved. Alex needs a fresh start somewhere else, and we need to move on from him. It’s time.
Why buy good luggage? You only use it when you travel. - Yogi Berra
how can Harbaugh help him?
Smith has always played best working in a spread. A WCO concentrates on short routes that allow YAC. Alex’ biggest struggle has been short routes and screens. Next is Alex’ ego. I heard that Harbaugh has an infectious personality and builds confidence in his players. But how long will that last when Alex gets booed for a checkdown? Unless the fan’s attitude towards Smith changes, he will have to find a new home. Judging by the comments on this site by intelligent, loyal fans the fans will not change.
by mcwagner on Feb 10, 2011 10:29 AM PST via mobile reply actions
The better question...
is will Harbaugh do the same as his two predecessors by making Smith the de facto QB to hinge his coaching career on?
Bite my shiny metal sig
No way
I just can’t see Harbaugh falling into the same Nolantary trap. Both of the latter were not skilled at evaluating QB talent or training up the same. Both ruined Alex Smith as much as he ruined their coaching jobs (mutual clusterbomb).
Besides, Andrew Luck should tell you all you need to know about Harbaugh’s insights and abilities with QBs.
Jim Harbaugh doesn't just WANT winners, he MAKES them!
Ever since Alex got to the 49ers
it has felt like putting a square peg in a round hole. Alex is a smart guy and i’m sure a decent person so I have rarely booed him unless he makes an exceptionally stupid series of passes. However, now Harbaugh enters the scene and he knows what he needs in a QB. I trust Harbaugh more than I hate Alex so I am willing to give Alex a chance to succeed with the TLC that Harbaugh provides. However, while some QB need more time to mature and get a rhythm to become great, some just aren’t good and fade away because they can’t keep up.
As I have said before, we enter 2011 with either Smith or a FA/trade QB, and right now it looks more like Smith because what else does Harbaugh have to do other than make schemes and go over video tape. If I have spent 3 days straight analyzing film, i just may go crazy if i don’t get out and why not get to know Alex and see what you got? Harbaugh is a smart guy and he’s not going to come out and burn bridges by saying Alex is terrible or slow.
Honorary parent of Duane Kuiper, beloved solar powered broadcaster and power hitting coach for the Giants.
Anyone like the way Alex played in last game? It’s not like Alex hasn’t done one good thing. He’s got a lot going for him too. I’m so frustrated with him that I don’t know where to start. But one thing is I’m not sold on Kolb. I’d rather stick with Alex and see what Harbaugh can do with his style. McNabb is the only option that would change my mind. Draft someone solid to learn from Alex and get a better secondary. Our O-line will only be better this year.
by I love Patrick Willis on Feb 10, 2011 10:41 AM PST reply actions
Drew, there's something wrong with your stats.
864 out of 1514 isn’t 55.56%, it’s 57.07%.
9399 yards in 1514 attempts equals an average of 6.21, not 5.94.
And in combination with 51 TDs and 53 picks, that’s a rating of 72.15, not 67.28.
That’s only Smith’s numbers, but I think the same is true with the other stats. Did you calculate an average of the respective numbers over those five years instead of a weighted average (or instead of just calculating average yardage and rating from the total numbers)?
I copied and pasted...
So if there are any problems ask ESPN about them.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Everyone makes a good point....
Is Harbaugh a miracle worker ? I’d like to think so, but it remains to be seen, I have high hopes he will atleast make us competitive again. Can Alex get us to the Super Bowl ? I doubt it, but I think under the right coaching and play calling, he can help make us competitive again. Alex was never given a chance to be a understudy, Nolan through in him to sink or swim, but then Nolan wasn’t a offense minded coach, nor was Singletary, not to mention all the cordinator changes. I hate to say it, but even Montana woudn’t have done well under those circumstances, Joe’s advantage was Bill Walsh installing a offense no one had seen or was ready for. If Harbaugh is worth his salt and I believe he is, Alex should have a good season and would be helpful is breaking in a rookie QB. The past few years ( Alex years ) haven’t been entirely his fault, poor coaching, poor front line and not exactly great recievers, he deserves one last chance under a offensive minded coach and experienced NFL QB, it certainly can’t hurt and I seriously doubt any draft choice or FA will do any better this next season.
I voted
In Harbaugh I Trust but my vote was with a caveat. I want Smith back if we also explore our other options such as drafting a mid-round prospect (Ponder?) and trading for a prospect (Josh Johnson). We can pull off all three without significantly damaging our financial health or picks arsenal.
Then you let Smith, Carr and Johnson compete. The winner starts (probably Smith or Johnson). Carr probably gets cut. And Ponder stays on the sideline the whole year (NO MATTER WHAT). If Smith/Johnson lead us to another 5-11 season, then we move heaven and earth to get Andrew Luck in 2012.
Jim Harbaugh doesn't just WANT winners, he MAKES them!
Alex-obsession
I don’t see Harbaugh becoming so blinded by QB love for Alex like Singletary did. Harbaugh is a pragmatist and he loves to win. Harbaugh enjoys being the underdog and dismantling the favorite (What’s YOUR deal?). I just don’t see him mortgaging the future on a QB if he doesn’t see that QB having real long-term star potential. If he thinks Alex can be a stopgap to 2012, sign Alex up. If he thinks there’s a chance he can turn Alex into a star QB, sign Alex up. If he’s just blowing a little smoke until the CBA is signed and doesn’t have any intention of working with Alex, don’t sign Alex up.
Jim Harbaugh doesn't just WANT winners, he MAKES them!
5-11 next year
might not even get you Andrew Luck might have to be top pick. Also what then happens to your scenerio of having Ponder on the bench with one years worth of experience??
Niners,Nets,Reds & USC!!!
"The future belongs to those who prepare for it today." - Malcolm X
by Kidd2Petrovic on Feb 10, 2011 10:59 AM PST up reply actions
Ponder
Ponder sitting on the bench for year ensures we aren’t throwing a rookie into the fire. I think it’s a great way to help hedge our bets and ensure we turn over the franchise to the right QB.
Jim Harbaugh doesn't just WANT winners, he MAKES them!
Hedging Bets
I thing that would be a novel idea. But based on your senerio of Ponder & then coming back next year to draft Andrew Luck it wouldn’t quite work. Reason being yes you gave Ponder a year to mature & learn the playbook but, you don’t enstill any trust in him because you went out and got a highly sout out 1st rd QB in Luck to replace him. When most franchises do this everyone KNOWS Luck will be the starter during that season after using a high 1st round pick. All this is done without even knowing what Ponder can do during a regular season game.
I do get your concept of drafting a qb in the next two years which is great. But if this team drafts Ponder this year don’t set your bar so high on getting Luck the following year. It might be another qb in the middle rounds.
Niners,Nets,Reds & USC!!!
"The future belongs to those who prepare for it today." - Malcolm X
by Kidd2Petrovic on Feb 10, 2011 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
Then you draft either Matt Barkley or Landry Jones
There are 3 guys that are top tier talents in the 2012 draft. We’ll see just how good Luck really is too with the change in the system and his line.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 10, 2011 3:13 PM PST up reply actions
Reality says
that Alex is probably done in SF though. I don’t think he wants to come back because of all of the fan booing and the instability (to this point) in the coaching. If this were 2005 and Alex had just been drafted, this would be a whole different story.
Jim Harbaugh doesn't just WANT winners, he MAKES them!
Typically a new coach wouldn't keep a QB that has seen 2 coaches get fired.
Harbaugh is in a position where his ONLY play is to be political with Alex. We don’t even know if there will be a FA signing period at this point. Burning a bridge with a guy that could potentially end up on your team against your will makes no sense and eliminates any leverage you may have had in a trade.
I’m not an Alex supporter and I think a change in scenery could do both parties some good. Any other year and I think that would be the case. If there is a work stoppage of any sort Alex gains value by the day and it makes no sense to run him off now.
I think we need to draft a QB where we can get the best value, in my mind 2nd/3rd round. Wait for the labor dispute to shake out and examine the market at that time. If Alex is extended before a new CBA is worked out people have a legitimate reason to complain, but right now the 49ers are handling this right, IMO.
Insert Jason Campbell's name in place of Smith's...
could be a fun exercise in this too.
Bite my shiny metal sig
Are you going to bring anything with substance to this thread...
or destroy it like you did the one last night. Just curious…
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
I'm not out to destroy anything here...
I’m saying Campbell, given the same arguments Smith has had, is similar. I’m just trying to qualify this a bit. That’s all.
Bite my shiny metal sig
huh
I understand getting frustrated with certain types of comments, but could you clarify yourself here?
by David Fucillo on Feb 10, 2011 9:25 PM PST up reply actions
Alex Smith is NOT the Rodney Dangerfield of SF QBs
He deserves what he gets.
I think it’s Jeff Garcia. By all accounts he was a pretty good QB in fact holding some SF records that even Montana and Young couldn’t do. Yet he is an after thought in SF QB lore. He isn’t even mentioned hardly, even though he was a pretty good QB for us.
Jeff Garcia never got booed by his own fans...
He never had another horrible quarterbacks name chanted by his own fans…
I get your point about Garcia… but what happened to Smith was pretty despicable. And I bet anyone who chanted for Carr that day later felt like a complete moron thereafter when Carr got his chance.
I would say that was pretty darn disrespectful.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Well...
there is a whole lotta Garcia haterz in the SF fanbase. Lot’s of them when it comes to a certain WR.
Bite my shiny metal sig
TO has enough class to not boo him though. There is no excuse for the Carr chants. I would never disrespect a man doing his best. Lowest point in watching football
by mcwagner on Feb 10, 2011 12:01 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Ummm..
TO wasn’t very classy when it came to Garcia. He wasn’t classy when it came to McNabb either.
Bite my shiny metal sig
I know
That’s how low I feel about the Carr chant. I would rather get called out by a top tier WR that had reasons to throw me under the bus then to have a stadium scream for my inept backup
by mcwagner on Feb 10, 2011 12:11 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
let me explain
TO was an absolute jerk. He was treating people like crap. But the Carr chant was so bad that even a jerk like TO would shake his head and say we needed to show some class.
by mcwagner on Feb 10, 2011 2:19 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Garcia shouldn't have been checking the male.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 10, 2011 3:15 PM PST up reply actions
Well , these same moron's have been booing since Steve Young day's ...
… was at a Niner bar when Alex got hurt @ the Panther game , never in my life have i ever been so ashamed of being a Niner fan , when these freaking idiot’s were clapping and yelling that he was hurt , and then to cap that off were chanting Carr , Carr , Carr …!!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
That's just disgraceful.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
If there's one thing I want to pound into the heads of Niners fans, it's this
Walsh and Montana are gone. They were once in a generation (maybe once in a lifetime) talents. To expect every coach and QB to live up to their level is sheer lunacy.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
nonsense!
We got a Stanford coach, now all we need is a third round QB from Notre Dame. We already have a safety from USC to lead the D. No! I can’t let go! Bring them back bring them back bring them back! Super Bowls, Dynasty! RRRRRIIIIIIICCCCCCEEEEE!!!!!!
Seriously, that was a long, long time ago. We might as well be Redskins fans.
by mcwagner on Feb 10, 2011 12:19 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Smith or Rodgers
Alex Smith has been under how many different head coachs and how many different OCs. Arron Rodgers has had the same head coach. Was able to sit and learn the game from a great quarterback.
They we’re in the same draft and Greenbay coaches were high on Alex Smith. We had a higher draft postion (#1). So we got him. I see no issues with bringing him back. There are times when he has been awesome and other times when he was let down by play around him. I trust Jim and Alex to bring us back to the playoffs. I also think we will draft a young quartback in the third or fourth round this year.
Why not compare Alex to Eli? I’m just a little tired of Rodgers getting mentioned with Smith constantly. Otherwise, your post is valid
by mcwagner on Feb 10, 2011 12:07 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I agree that AR and AS have mentioned together to much. However the Niners did this to him and US as fans. If not Alex, lets go after Kolb. I think he is a good fit and a second round pick is good value for him.
Normally I would agree, but Alex can be had for cheaper than Kolb.
A large part of why I would want Alex, even IF the CBA is signed, is that Alex is the best free agent on the market and can be signed without giving up a critical draft pick. Alex is roughly equal to Kolb, for all practical purposes, and can be freely signed.
no to Kolb.
He’s not very good. No way is he worth a 2nd.
Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.
If there were no other logical choices available
And Harbaugh approves of it, then yes. If it translates on the field from day one, they yes.
Jay Cruise
Ab Workouts Mind Body Spirit Arthritis Treatment
it's been time for alex to go
if we keep alex the cancer does this mean no veteran fa? and how long will they keep him? i think it’s way past time to split ways with smith. at what point do the excuses stop and do we accept that a good deal of it is on the players? its ridiculous wasting more time and opportunities on proven loser. and if he’s going to succeed, let him succeed somewhere else.
Alex Smith is garbage...
You're scaring the women and children
I’m glad Harbaugh is making the decision on who his QB will be next year and beyond. And I’m sure he will make a level-headed, comprehensive evaluation of his team and his options.This well-researched article is representative of what I sense Harbaugh’s evaluation will look like.
He’ll ignore the near-hysterical rantings of folks who mistake feminizing the names of players they don’t like or posters who don’t agree with them with actual thoughtful, deliberative and insightful evaluation.
It’s ironic how similar some of these ranters’ and Singletary’s approach to problem solving is. Just compare how Singletary brow beat that reporter with what some of the posters in here have said. And then compare how the players under Singletary said they didn’t prepare for situations with how these ranters have similarly failed to prepare for their arguments, instead relying on a shallow and ultimately impotent “I want winners” mentality. I don’t want to even mention the “playing tight” around those guys.
I trust Harbaugh will take into account the CBA, his draft options to bolster a better supporting cast at CB and OLB, and Smith’s own numbers, which are at least okay when you take into account the horrible coaching he’s had, to rebuild a winning tradition.
Smith may or may not start or even be here next year, but the comparing of stats above with the rest of the story outcomes make for an enticingly compelling case.
Its a team game folks!!!
I know the QB and head coach positions are typically the scapegoats but come on, really? If we selected Rogers instead of Smith I guarantee that it would’ve been Alex hoisting that super bowl trophy this year. In fact, I bet Aaron is probably thanking the lord that we didn’t draft him. If your team sucks, it sucks. If you brought Montana back and put him on this years team, he wouldn’t do any better (lack of protection). Of course Alex could’ve made some of those throws, what QB doesnt have a few of those a game? I know Rogers let a few get away just this past weekend. Alex didn’t give up those crucial TDs in the clutch, he didn’t not pick up the blitz or let the OLB abuse him, he didn’t drop any passes, and he didn’t fumble the ball after a crucial completion. Those games against the top teams early on in the season went down to the wire and if i remember correctly, Alex didn’t single handedly lose those games. All of you fans that have never played in an actual football game will never understand that it just doesnt go your way sometimes. I’m fine w/ Alex, his teammates are fine with him, our new coach is fine w/ him…who do yall (Alex haters) think you are to pass judgment when you know nothing of the game except that you watch the final product each sunday.
Give tha guy a break...I remember losing most of our games because of mistakes by players that did not play the quarterback position.
I'm sure Norv Turner is a good judge of a good QB...even he said the guy can be good w/ quality people around him.
by NewAgecorner1 on Feb 10, 2011 3:12 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I stopped reading when you compared Alex Smith to John Elway
How about looking at the QB’s who struggled for their first five years then continued to do nothing. I bet the list is about 20x as long.
I’d rather take my chances somewhere else than a 1 in 20 shot.
His name is Ydwin, your argument is invalid.
by microwave donut on Feb 10, 2011 3:34 PM PST reply actions
Carry on then...
Had you read the entire post you would have realized it wasn’t a comparison of any of them. There was a deeper point involved.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
“Since Alex Smith has only been in the league for five years, the players first five years will be illustrated for comparison purposes.”
Stat comparisons across eras are useless. Johnny Unitas had a career QB rating of 78. I guess Alex Smith has been better than him in 09-10.
His name is Ydwin, your argument is invalid.
by microwave donut on Feb 10, 2011 5:42 PM PST up reply actions
Not useless, just not perfect.
What we’re looking for is general trends, not hard data. Everyone knows QB rating pretty much sucks, but it’s alright for quick analysis. On the fly, I mostly look at completion percentage and yards per attempt as a good marker of how well the quarterback has done. Keeping the era into account, of course.
Bingo!!
…simple concept to grasp for some… not so much for others I guess.
and QB rating is one of the most misleading stats out there.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
so why are these stats posted for comparison?
His name is Ydwin, your argument is invalid.
by microwave donut on Feb 10, 2011 6:17 PM PST up reply actions
Because they're good for comparison. Just take them with a grain of salt.
For instance, someone with a 100 QB rating, on average, has done better than a QB with a 70 rating. There are exceptions, but not many. For example, Alex Smith’s completion percentage has been very comparable to a decent QB, but his yards/completion are far lower. This would point to his tendency to checkdown, but is also a testament to his decent accuracy. So you look at the stats and interpret what you see. You can’t just throw stats out and blindly compare.
I just don't really see the value
I mean look at Joe Namath. His stats look pretty pedestrian, but he was a 4 time all star, AFL champion and AFL POY in that 5 year span.
His name is Ydwin, your argument is invalid.
by microwave donut on Feb 10, 2011 6:36 PM PST up reply actions
Same goes for me..
I’ve already posted about Young and Elway regarding the stat tables. Really quite useless unless you flesh them out with situations, eras, etc.
Bite my shiny metal sig
See past the stats, and grasp the concept...
I know you’re capable. Maybe just too stubborn. Who knows?
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Two words: TEAM SPORT
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
silly me
I thought rookie of the year and most outstanding player were individual awards.
His name is Ydwin, your argument is invalid.
by microwave donut on Feb 11, 2011 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
They don't help your TEAM win
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
The Jets won the superbowl in Namath's 4th year
what else?
His name is Ydwin, your argument is invalid.
by microwave donut on Feb 17, 2011 7:48 PM PST up reply actions
I stopped reading your comment after I realized you didn't read the entire post.
Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3
by manraj7 on Feb 10, 2011 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Love Alex or hate Alex
You all have to agree that this issue is spliting niners nation 50/50.
The ONLY solution to this?
Start winning Niners.
doubt anyone really LOVES Alex... at least not yet.
but i agree.
I cant stand our fan base
a bunch of inconsiderate arm chair QBs that know nothing of football. Did yall really expect that we were gonna dominate football for 20-30 years…we had a great run. Every team has their ups and downs and we are actually not as bad as we were a few years ago. This is football, thats the way it goes. Get used to it and try being a die hard fan instead of snobby critics.
Give tha guy a break...I remember losing most of our games because of mistakes by players that did not play the quarterback position.
I'm sure Norv Turner is a good judge of a good QB...even he said the guy can be good w/ quality people around him.
Almost 20 years! I love posting this, thanks for giving me another opportunity.
Year W/L Place
1981 — 13-3 1st SB vrs Cincinnati Bengals 26-21
1982 — 3-6 11th (Strike shortened year)
1983 – 10-6 1st
1984 – 15-1 1st SB vrs. Miami Dolphins 38-16
1985 – 10-6 2nd
1986 – 10-5-1 1st
1987 – 13-2 1st
1988 – 10-6 1st SB vrs Cincinnati Bengals 20-16
1989 – 14-2 1st SB vrs Denver Broncos 55-10
1990 – 14-2 1st
1991 – 10-6 3rd
1992 – 14-2 1st
1993 – 10-6 1st
1994 – 13-3 1st SB San Diego Chargers 49-26
1995 – 11-5 1st
1996 – 12-4 2nd
1997 – 13-3 1st
1998 – 12-4 2nd
well yeah, i meant that we did not and could not dominate for that long...no team can.
Give tha guy a break...I remember losing most of our games because of mistakes by players that did not play the quarterback position.
I'm sure Norv Turner is a good judge of a good QB...even he said the guy can be good w/ quality people around him.
by NewAgecorner1 on Feb 10, 2011 5:50 PM PST up reply actions
Love the way Harbaugh slapped Jed and Baalke around about Alex ...
… thinkin’ if he does come back ( Alex ) that is , then we know who’s running this show …!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
Oh , Harbaugh sign the man ( Alex ) and bring me some Casey Matthew's ...!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
Baalke gets the final say so...
Harbaugh will heavily influence the decisions made though on the QB position. But Harbaugh certainly isn’t punking anyone in that FO. That we can say for sure… It’s not a very passive FO.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Biggest Bwah I've ever seen
It’s one thing to say you still have faith in Alex Smith fill in xxxxxx. It’s intellectually dishonest to compare his numbers to any of these QBs and conclude he’s on a similar career path. None of those numbers are put in context to the given eras.
Yeah they are...
Some people are just too blinded with their Alex Smith hatred to see it. The context is fine for the point that was being expressed. It’s really dishonest and quite rude to sit there and pretend to have any intellectual depth with a two sentence comment attempting to devalue a post that took a ton of time to research and put together.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Smith aside..
the tables really don’t say much about any of the QB’s listed. I can see your reasoning for posting it, but it isn’t truly representing those QB’s in itself. That’s my issue with your post. 87-89 Young isn’t as good as a comparison as 92-95 Young, just basing Young on his own merits.
That’s why I also brought up Sammy Winder when it came to Elway. The stat tables provide zero context on their own. Of course, bringing in more context would mean a more comprehensive study, and if your post wasn’t meant as a study, then you can see how the tables really don’t work here.
Just my 2 cents man.
Bite my shiny metal sig
To add..
One player on your list that would have made a compelling case would have been Jake Plummer. Use that one player alone, flesh out his stats and situations, and then go to how he fit into the WCO, and you may find similarities there. Had Policy and Co not screwed up that draft, Plummer would have backed up Steve Young, so talk about misfortune there. He goes to the abysmal Cardinals, plays in a college stadium, takes a ton of sacks his first few years, etc. Then you take him over to DEN under Shanahan, and Bada Bing! There might lie Alex Smith.
Bite my shiny metal sig
87-89 Young isn’t as good as a comparison as 92-95 Young, just basing Young on his own merits.
We haven’t seen 2014-2016 Alex Smith yet, so….TBD. How is that so hard to understand?
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
I'm trying to understand..
why you used those stats, and are now being lazy or just ignorant on why you tried to shoehorn them into something you haven’t qualified yet.
I’m really biting my tongue out of respect to you here. bignerd already did what I would have done had this been a Fanpost. If you don’t want to discuss it, fine. Just don’t try and pass this off with a flippant remark.
Bite my shiny metal sig
I can lead a blind horse to water, but I can't make him drink...
…in all due respect. I can’t help it if you can’t grasp the simple logic there. I don’t have to expand any further than I did in the post. Some people got it, you don’t. Not sure why. Guess that is for you to figure out.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
rough starts to careers, cause & effect, etc... all that.
pretty easy
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Some people did get it..
bignerd, myself and a couple of others. To not qualify Young years in SF as a backup QB was being what bignerd pointed out as dishonest. You just threw up numbers up there and hoped they stuck. You threw Elway’s numbers up there without any context behind them, as you did all of the others. If you’re gonna synapse careers with mini burger stat tables, you better have some meat in those burgers. To say you’re not comparing those QB’s to Smith is also dishonest, or else they wouldn’t be part of your argument for him.
Your article is transparent, and for someone who says he isn’t on either side of the argument, you really have shown much in your comments or explanations that doesn’t show bias.
Eddgy…….you…….adding up…..how much…….the bill is yet…….???
Bite my shiny metal sig
Nope not one of you got the point I was making. It was a simple one.
There have been guys who have done well have been able to turn it around. Not once on the post did I say Alex was for sure going to do it. If anything the odds are stacked against him. So yes, I was very unbiased. But just because the odds are stacked against a certain player DOES NOT make it impossible.
Is the glass half full or half empty?
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Well , your two cent's is really adding up , thinkin' your up too a buck fifty on this post alone ...!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
Did you get that "bwah" from drummer? Funny, he used to use that a ton too. Eerily similar.
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Eerily similar

Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
Nope. That would be accusing me of IP spoofing and trolling and such, which I don't do.
Bite my shiny metal sig
It's "Bah", not "Bwah".

"Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer "extortion." The "X" makes it sound cool." - Bender Bending Rodriguez

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